EPISODE 39: Embracing an academic pivot, River is loving their Wesleyan experience - adjusting course load, study spaces, and rest to beat burnout

River loves the varied and welcoming communities across campus and has found a home in many creative spaces at Wesleyan, including dance and a literary society. But freshman year was also a time of confronting their learning style, and navigating the structural conventions that pre-med students face. They negotiated successfully with some professors to modify testing formats, and earned top grades, but the experience prompted deep reflection, and ultimately River decided to approach the sciences differently, and that has made all the difference. Hear more about how River navigated the early days - from the sometimes exhausting "mandatory fun" of orientation to settling into the dorm, and some surprising insights about affinity groups. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:08

Now that I'm genuinely enjoying my social life at Hamilton, I'm more incentivized to actually be social.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Having autism isn't something that could prevent people from having a successful college experience. It takes work.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Join clubs, find groups, find your people, find ways to fit in, see a peer mentor, see somebody who can help you get involved on campus.

SPEAKER_05 0:32

There were a lot of black children on the spectrum who were also deaf. She's not the first one.

SPEAKER_06 0:36

I researched all of the majors and I eliminated the ones that sounded not interesting to me. So then I changed it to chemical engineering, did to work with chemistry. Then I took an environmental science class and I'm like, I think environmental issues are really important, and I'm really passionate about sustainability and stuff. So then I changed it to finally environmental engineering.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Especially in a college town like OutdoorDash. Like, just go out and get the food. That's good exercise.

SPEAKER_04 1:08

Hey everyone! Thanks for joining us on this episode of Autism Goes to College, the podcast for students on the spectrum and for everyone who supports us. Navigating college is always a challenge. So here are the hacks, insights, and great ideas you've been looking for to make college work for you. We're a small group of self-advocates. We're all in college or recently graduated. And you can do this too.

SPEAKER_08 1:44

At the end of this episode, I'll give you some details about where you can see the film today. And it's all at our website, autismgoes to college.org. Every month we drop a new episode. Here's what's also new. There's a resource center on our website with dozens of outtakes of important stuff that didn't quite make it into the film, all the podcast episodes, and blogs from experts and from student advisors from the film. Thanks for listening. We do hope to hear from you.

SPEAKER_07 2:20

Hello! Thanks for listening to our podcast, Autism Goes to College. I'm River Isleb, and I'm now a sophomore at Wesleyan University in Connecticut. Last time I was on this show, I was talking to Catherine about making my decision about where to go to college. I'm really happy to say I love it here at Wesleyan. And I've been navigating some unexpected stuff. Academically, I have made some decisions that are taking me in new directions. And we'll talk about that and also how I've tried to work with professors on making meaningful accommodations. Socially, I found that Wesleyan is a place where students who identify as neurodivergent or queer are really woven into the whole community. I'll say more about that and affinity spaces too. For sure, the transitions to college had some unique challenges for me. And I'll share a little about that. And so, I'm happy to be here again with Catherine O'Brien, the host of Autism Goes to College podcast. And I'm gonna hand it over to her.

SPEAKER_08 3:13

Hey everyone. Welcome back, River. It's good to see you again. I'm glad Wesleyan has suited you as you hoped. So, as you said, you had just committed to college, but were still in your senior year when you last came on the podcast. Can you take us back through your arrival on campus that summer before first year and how it all unfolded? Like, did you have orientation, pre-orientation trips, things of that nature?

SPEAKER_07 3:40

Yeah, so I got accepted. Um, I experienced the end of my senior summer and uh the freshmen at Wesleyan go back about like three or four days early and have like really intensive orientation where they just kind of throw you into activity after activity after activity. It was honestly a little exhausting at first, kind of just barely moving in to my new dorm in a place I'd just barely gotten used to, and having to kind of socially perform in front of a lot of really new faces and people and adapting to an entirely new environment.

SPEAKER_08 4:15

Yeah, three to four days sounds like an extremely compressed experience to get oriented.

SPEAKER_07 4:23

Yeah. Um, it was a lot of like mass assemblies as well as like group activities. We were given like an orientation group with a bunch of other new students and like some returning students that worked for the university to kind of guide us. Um and we did a lot of like mandatory fun sort of activities. And I made some good friends in that experience, which I've kept. But it was really no joke as far as like exhausting.

SPEAKER_08 4:51

Yeah, and it puts some cognitive demands on you in terms of both learning campus and perhaps masking.

SPEAKER_07 4:57

Yeah, I try I try really hard not to mask too much. It's it's something I I strive to avoid in situations that are specifically social because I find it I would rather have friends that kind of know who I am truly. But like the executive functioning part of it and like the demands of just like having to continuously be in front of people all the time and not having a lot of time to myself felt very unbalanced before classes even started. And so it was kind of tough having to start off in like a on not as refreshed as I had been from the summer. Understandable.

SPEAKER_08 5:33

Did you have any accommodations during orientation? Like did you move into a single room, for example, or or did you get support?

SPEAKER_07 5:41

Yeah, so Wesleyan's nice in their kind of housing setup. I requested a single room and I was able to get a single room without pretty much without too much issue. And my dorm this year as well, I have a single room. I didn't really have accommodations for the orientation. I spoke with the students who were running my group who kind of like took attendance at everything and stuff, and I was like, hey, this is a lot for me. I might need to take some steps out, especially during assemblies that covered topics that were a little bit more close to home. Uh, we had an assembly on like sexual assault that I would have preferred not to attend. And the the students were really good about it, and the university didn't really seem to give mind too much, and so I was able to take breaks when I needed to.

SPEAKER_08 6:25

Yeah. Our version of that assembly at UC's actually has two versions. One is for the general student body, and the other is for anybody who identifies with the survivor experience. Um, neither of them is great, but back back when there used to be only one, that was harder. So I hope that more universities will start making accommodations for trauma.

SPEAKER_07 6:50

Yeah. Were you able to connect with like new friends? Um, I think it took more time than just like the the three days. I found I made a couple connections during those times. A lot of them felt very service level and kind of like the people that you would have lunch with because you had nobody knew anyone. They're like true friendships like really developed, I would say, at the end of my first semester and into my second semester, after I kind of like found my home in a lot of the student groups on campus, as well as like clubs and activities, as well as like in classes and stuff.

SPEAKER_08 7:26

I see. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense that it takes time. Um what has the social scene at Wesleyan been like? I know it's a smaller school um without uh say like a classical sports and Greek life culture, but how have you found it?

SPEAKER_07 7:43

I personally really enjoy it here. Um, it's a really unique community, I would say. A lot of the social life revolves a lot around like the things you do on campus and like hobbies and interests, and you're like, there's a joke on campus that like it's it's weird if you only have one major. Most people have two or three and have like a really diverse set of interests. Like, one of my closest friends is studying music, environmental studies, and computer science. And so, like, kids have crazy interests and it makes me feel really safe and at home in that sense because people really care about the weird stuff that they're doing. And I mean, as like an autistic person having special interests, it feels like you're not alone in that. Even if not everyone is autistic, they have the same level of care and passion for things that I have found that I have. It also draws in a really neurodiverse community because of the open curriculum and because of the like care for what you do culture. There's a lot of commitment to the things that matter, like student groups and like community organizing. And so I've I found that people gravitate towards me because I do care about the things that I do, and I have found a really good community within that. It tends to be a very politically active campus, a very artistic campus, and a very engaged campus. Our student populace like is very community-oriented, and if you are part of a student group, the student group will kind of hold you and be really welcoming in that sense. And so it's been a really good home for me.

SPEAKER_08 9:15

That's great. I was gonna ask you if you had been able to connect with other um neurodiverge and autistic students, and it sounds like that kind of happens organically because there are just passionate, interesting people around that suit your uh style of college studying.

SPEAKER_07 9:34

The classes are generally smaller too, and there's a lot of really diverse classes to take. And so because you're getting that individualistic help, a lot of neurodiverse students end up coming here because of that hands-on experience and because of that closeness you can get with the faculty as well. And one of my favorite parts of campus, and I was really shocked and amazed when I came, is just the amount of like zines and student-run magazines and written, like tangible written media that is just circulating all the time. And that's that's really rare for campus communities because those publications take a ton of time and energy. And most students are so worried about their coursework that they don't throw that energy towards stuff outside of it.

SPEAKER_08 10:16

Yeah, it's so rare in the uh internet age to get people in the college age group working on physical media.

SPEAKER_07 10:26

It's it's really amazing. It's it's something I'm very happy to be a part of. I'm currently writing a social critique piece for the fashion magazine on campus about uh sex positive culture on campus and like how it how it operates. And I I've been doing interviews for it, and people are really engaged and curious about the material and and willing to have uncomfortable conversations. I'm also a member of a Greek society, ironically. We have a very small Greek life here on campus, and one that I'm a part of is the Alpha Delta Phi Literary Society at Wesleyan. We're not associated with the university, we're associated with Middletown. We do a lot of philanthropic work, we host a ton of events for the campus, which is something that I've been really involved in this semester, particularly hosting like community bands and stand-up shows and different like we've had some speakers come to campus as well. Um, that's mostly how I how I get involved with on-campus life. And I've met so many really cool people working through that. It also has become a bit of a home for me. A lot of my friends are in the society. I the house on campus is some is some place that I go to when I I need to like calm down and like have a good space to hang out. And it's it's become kind of my safe haven for when I'm struggling to do so socialization that's a little too over-exerting.

SPEAKER_08 11:46

So when we spoke and you were about to enter college, you said your potential major was pre-medicines with a really focus on science. Um, have you stuck with that and how have your classes been going?

SPEAKER_07 12:04

So I decided to change things up. Um last semester classes or last year I should say, classes were going decently. Um, I was having a lot of trouble with exams though. And for the pre-medicine track, you have to plan way in advance to make sure you get all your credits done. Um so I was I was doing all of the things I was supposed to do. I was in bio, I was in chem. Um, I was like checking all the boxes. I just the big lecture courses, even if it's only 80 students compared to like 200 from another university, was still I was not getting the support that I needed.

SPEAKER_08 12:36

Yeah. And unfortunately, the structure of those courses is often that there are uh only a handful of high-stakes exams that comprise almost all of your grade, except for perhaps a lab section, which can be really um rigorous. And a lot of the faculty view that as a way to prove yourself, and if you can't hack it, you should simply leave. Uh, I experienced some of that myself. Um, so did you see that at Wesleyan still?

SPEAKER_07 13:03

I did see that at Wesleyan. I don't know that it's I think it's the nature of the inaccessibility of STEM as a field, which is actually what got me into the major I'm currently in. I finished all of my classes for last year. I got decent enough grades to be proud of them, but I was still like very frustrated with how inaccessible the exam format was and how I communicated and how I could best show that I understood the content. And I felt very unwilling to change my way of communication and to fit into this box that it was requiring. So I continued on the track this year. I was originally in organic chemistry, a neuroscience course, and then a science and technology studies course, which is like it was a theory-based course about science and technologies in society, and then a social science course uh on sociology.

SPEAKER_08 13:58

Oh, so that sounds like a good spread. I took organic chemistry in my second year. It certainly was quite rigorous. Um, I did find the exams very difficult. Um, how's that going? I dropped the course.

unknown 14:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 14:14

Um so it is, it it hasn't changed. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 14:18

It's hard. It's hard. Um I neglected to mention I also was taking a studio design course on top of it.

SPEAKER_08 14:25

Um, so above a full course load.

SPEAKER_07 14:28

Yes, I was taking more than a full course load. I was kind of feeling out if I could do it. Um, because originally I wanted to be a studio art major, but I I'm perfectly happy just taking the art classes and not doing that. Um valid. So valid. But I I was finding again and again as much as I understood, and like I felt very confident in the organic chemistry content. I was really good at the problem sets at demonstrating my knowledge outside of the exam space. But as soon as I got myself into the exam space, the way that the questions were worded would trick me up. And it felt very unfair for how my brain worked. And after a lot of talking with my parents, uh my therapist, and my advisor, I realized that med school wasn't going to be for me. It's a lot of exam work. I am not fulfilled by that sort of exam work, and I was finding more and more that I was so drawn to my theory courses on sciences and the more applicable science courses like my neuroscience class. And I'd rather spend my energy in those areas. So I decided I'm going to declare my major as a science and technology studies student, which it's a bit of a niche field, but it's up and coming. And so a lot of the work that I am doing for those courses is looking at science through a social sciences lens and kind of integrating an interdisciplinary aspect to the world of technology and science.

SPEAKER_08 15:51

Congratulations on changing your mind and like realizing that medical school was going to be more of the things that were least pleasant about your current coursework. So you talked a little bit about organic chemistry exams being hard. Did you have testing accommodations? Were they did they take any of the difficulty out of it? And you know what what ultimately led to you not being able to work with that professor?

SPEAKER_07 16:20

I do have a testing accommodations. I had them in high school and I transferred over to college. Uh, I've extended time in a quieter study space or a quieter exam testing space, and generally they work pretty well. Chemistry and organic chemistry, the way that it's taught, just doesn't click with me. I would I would study and I would study and I would really understand the material. I'd be able to do really well on problem sets and like applied knowledge. But as soon as I was required to recall from memory in a really stress-induced space all of this information and apply it in a way that was kind of unhelpful to me, in a way that was presented that is meant to trick you up. It was really difficult. I'm sure that if I stuck with it or if I a lot allotted more time to it and didn't have a heavy course load, I could have done fine in it. The professor, luckily for Orgo this year, was really, really accommodating. I met with him several times before I dropped the course. He was like, Yeah, it's super clear that you know the content well. I'm not worried about it. It seems like you're just rushing on exams and was really willing to work with me.

SPEAKER_08 17:31

Yeah, but when a professor says it looks like you're rushing, it's clear that they don't understand on a deeper level the types of processing differences and uh expression differences that can typify a neurodivergent student. Because I I doubt that you were simply going too fast.

SPEAKER_07 17:52

Yeah, I I not necessarily. Um, I did get a little ahead of myself on that first exam, but it was more that the way that the questions were worded, I didn't quite understand what they were looking for in me. Um, and when the professor is worried about answering questions for about 120 other students in the course, and I have to just sit there and wait and finish the exam and hope that I got it right. It wasn't worth putting myself through that struggle. And so I I decided that it was better that I threw my energy towards courses that were more fulfilling to me, like my neuroscience course, which my test grades have pretty substantially improved. Um, and it was because I actually spoke to the professor. At first, the class was really difficult for me. The exams in particular were like really tough. A lot of them were like fill-in-the-blank questions, and those make my brain go crazy. Um, I can't communicate in somebody else's words, I can only communicate in my own words. But the professor that taught the course is a professor that studies neurodevelopmental disorders, which is super helpful because I have one of those. They get it.

SPEAKER_08 18:59

They understand on a deeper level. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 19:02

Yes, they do. Um, and I'm actually probably gonna take a class on neurodevelopmental disorders with her in the future, which I'm excited about.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Oh, very cool.

SPEAKER_07 19:10

So, yeah, I got special accommodations from her, but she also changed the format of her exams to accommodate for more students, um, which meant instead of doing exclusively multiple choice questions and fill-in-the-blank questions, she included a larger proportion of open response questions with really clear guidelines as to what points were distributed where. And I, my course grade went from a D plus to an A plus pretty swiftly after that. So clearly, it was not my intelligence or my lack of hard work.

SPEAKER_08 19:45

Um, it was almost entirely the motivation, ability, etc., were never in question, clearly.

SPEAKER_07 19:51

And so I'm really profoundly proud of that and definitely going to use it as an example in the future for other professors.

SPEAKER_08 19:59

Yeah, and genuinely, it also sounds like your advocacy benefited all of the other students and students in future years who would benefit from an exam format that is a little more student-friendly and accessible. I would say so. Congratulations. So, um, you said you came in with some of the accommodations, like the testing accommodations from high school. Have you added on any accommodations since the college setting is somewhat unique with, you know, the residential nature and dining on campus, things like that. Um, what's changed?

SPEAKER_07 20:35

Rather than asking for accommodation from the university, which can be really bureaucratic and political, um, I've been working to accommodate for myself, which is a lot harder in certain ways, like being able to admit to yourself that you're not perfect and that you need to take a break sometimes, especially at Wesleyan's culture, which is pretty hardcore and commitment-based, has been something that I've really been working on. There's a tendency of mine to commit to a lot of things all at once and really force myself into um uh a lot of draining tasks. And so I've I've been doing better at deciding what is really important for me, where my energy is really worth spending, so that I have a more balanced schedule and I'm not I'm not constantly dying with being overworked and burnt out.

SPEAKER_08 21:25

Have most professors been like your neuroscience professor, receptive and and um willing to work with you?

SPEAKER_07 21:34

It's mixed. The smaller the class, the more likely that I'm gonna get that special attention. Last year for my introbio and intro chem courses, I found that I just kind of had to work harder than most of my peers to do as well as them.

SPEAKER_08 21:50

And that's a shame.

SPEAKER_07 21:51

Yeah. And unfortunately, a reality for a lot of students.

SPEAKER_08 21:56

Yeah, it's a very common experience that doesn't make it right. But you're not alone.

SPEAKER_07 22:01

Yeah. I decided that that was not an experience I was willing to deal with. Um, and so I'm now approaching sciences from a different angle uh than the traditional path, and I'm I'm really enjoying it because it's I feel a lot more engaged in my courses. I'm able to study things from a a different angle that that a lot of modern STEM research doesn't really look at, and I'm getting that one-on-one attention uh that I was really hoping for.

SPEAKER_08 22:28

That's wonderful. So, what are some highs and lows of your uh university experience to date?

SPEAKER_07 22:37

I'm really happy that I get to like stretch all of my limbs and all of the areas that I'm really interested in. The open curriculum at Wesleyan is really nice because like you can take whatever classes you want as long as you complete one major. And then there's no shortage of student groups on campus. Right now, I'm spending a lot of time and energy um in a dance group, an audition-based dance group that does like jazz and contemporary, and I'm choreographing a piece for our upcoming uh recital. And that not only has that space been like so welcoming and homey, and I I've made so many friends through it, but it's also like it's also been really creatively fulfilling to do an art art form that is just like I would not I don't have the chance to do in my studies, so I get to I get to explore it as a hobby outside of it.

SPEAKER_08 23:25

So I noticed your passions, studies, and activities don't include affinity groups on campus. Did you try those out and and how did you find them?

SPEAKER_07 23:35

Yeah some of the affinity so the affinity groups on campus, because it's such a queer, neurodiverse populace, felt a little bit more like forced friendships and like identity-based interactions rather than really genuinely forming connections with people who have a similar identity to you. And so I I found that it was a lot easier for me to seek for those connections outside of those spaces by just kind of trusting my intuition as to who seemed the most neurodiverse and queer and and who I was connecting with the most. There are spaces on campus specifically for more marginalized groups with lower populaces, like FGLI students and POC students, specifically like queer POC students, have a really strong affinity space. Um, that there is a lot of events, and I fully support that those groups have those spaces because I think it's fortunate that queerness and neurodiversity is like pretty open-ended here on campus. But for those spaces that for those individuals who do need a space away from the whiteness of campus and the richness of campus, I'm really glad that those people have it.

SPEAKER_08 24:41

Yeah. Um, have there been any particularly challenging moments other than the experiences of those big lectures? Um, like any sort of lessons learned the hard way?

SPEAKER_07 24:56

Yeah, um I struggle a lot with my mental health, like most autistic people do. And managing that has been a rocky road throughout the past two years. When I came to campus, because it's in Connecticut, not in my original home state of Rhode Island, my original psychologist couldn't continue to work with me in where my university was. So I was kind of left adrift on my own. And I tried at first to kind of see if I could tough it out. But unfortunately, mental health conditions don't just disappear. Um and so I sought emotional help from my school's clinical resources on campus for students with like therapeutic needs. And I was meeting bi-weekly with a therapist there, and it was going really, really well. But towards the middle of the semester, when I was dealing with a lot of major life changes with my major change and um kind of the familial turbulence that came with no longer being a med student, I found that I need a lot more support. And so it's been on and off kind of managing my depressive symptoms and trying to find that support at the same time.

SPEAKER_08 26:06

Yeah, that's really tough. Do you have any advice for um high school seniors that are looking at colleges this year and thinking about the application process now that you're on the other side of it?

SPEAKER_07 26:21

Yeah, um, it's a little a little harsh, and it's just gonna suck a lot, and then it's gonna be over, and then it's gonna be okay, but it's just gonna suck for a while. And that it is what it is, and it's temporary, but you're not alone in the fact that it sucks. It sucks for everyone. For most people, I would say.

SPEAKER_08 26:40

Yeah, it's incredibly stressful, and um, the reward for enduring all that stress is that you get to make a major life change.

SPEAKER_07 26:47

Yeah, and get to live about four of the most stressful years of your life.

SPEAKER_08 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 26:53

Stressful but also rewarding.

SPEAKER_08 26:55

Yeah. So what have those rewards been now that you are past the um the stress of the application cycle and the big adjustment?

SPEAKER_07 27:05

Um, I would say college is just a really good fit for me as a person. Um I for my entire life I've been like grasp grasping at more and more independence. Um, it's why I went to boarding school, and that's why I'm going to college a full two hours away from my home state. But it's it's really nice having the autonomy of like studying what you want to, being surrounded by people who are really interested in what they are doing and meeting a more diverse set of individuals. And I like Wesleyan because it is a smaller campus. It is it is a home. I get to walk around campus and bump into at least four different people that I know, just going from like the dining hall to my dorm, and being in a space where there's like so much creative and and academic juices flowing all over the place, and and it it's very it's very rewarding um being surrounded by so much creativity.

SPEAKER_08 27:59

Yeah, and it's campus life is often set up to really support the inquiry and growth. You know, there's so much that is a little bit easier um from, you know, having the dining hall so you're not constantly thinking about cooking to having resources like the library and the the student union post office within walking distance that I didn't appreciate until I didn't have them anymore. So I hope you're finding it as awesome as you expected when you were in high school.

SPEAKER_07 28:31

I mean, it has its up and down ups and downs, and like the stress of like always being on is is very tough because week after week after week there's always something new. But I'm I'm enjoying it, nevertheless.

SPEAKER_08 28:43

Yeah, and I'm I'm so glad. Safe to say you probably wouldn't recommend taking an overload of classes, including really difficult ones.

SPEAKER_07 28:52

Yeah, even if you can do it, you shouldn't and don't need to. Yeah. Well said.

SPEAKER_08 28:58

Thank you so much, River. It's great to have you back and to see you flourishing, despite the fact that it hasn't been an easy road the entire time since you last joined us.

SPEAKER_07 29:09

I'm glad to be back. I've really enjoyed my experience, and I'm I'm glad I can share it with more individuals on the spectrum.

SPEAKER_08 29:19

And now, as promised, here are ways to see the documentary. The documentary film Autism Goes to College is currently available through many channels, but the easiest way to see it today is to rent it on Vimeo On Demand, which you can access from your Apple TV or most smart TVs by going on the Vimeo On Demand app. You can also find a direct link on our website at www.autismgoes to college.org. The film is also available for educational use and live and hybrid screening events. All the relevant info and links can be found on our website. Thank you so much for listening, following us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, and especially for adding your reviews on Apple Podcasts. Our show is specifically for students on the Spectrum Navigating College, and we really appreciate your support for Autism Goes to College. Thanks for listening.