Autism Goes To College
Autism Goes To College
EPISODE 48: Working AND grad school? Two stars from the documentary discuss why they went back, what’s different, and time-management tips
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Both Jasmine and Aniella graduated from UCRiverside and found jobs pretty quickly doing what they hoped to do. For Jasmine, putting her engineering degree to work on a project with the California Department of Transportation was a dream job, while Aniella still feels lucky to be working in the entertainment industry in LA. But after a few years in the work world, both decided to go back for more schooling, part time. In this episode they talk with host Katharine O'Brien (a Phd student with autism) about why they decided to go back for more school, what's different about grad school, and how they each hope the investment in an added credential could help them meet future goals. Interested in Antarctica and tips on time management? This ep has it all.
Do not take classes because you think you should take the classes. Economics and computer science. I took because I thought that it could help me in the professional world. And if it gives you an existential crisis about your identity as a scholar, and then that bleeds through to your other courses, including the ones you're actually passionate about, just drop it. Do not feel ashamed for dropping a class.
SPEAKER_00Having autism isn't something that should prevent people from having a successful college experience. It takes work.
SPEAKER_02Join clubs, find groups, find your people, find ways to fit in, see a peer mentor, see somebody who can help you get involved on campus.
SPEAKER_04There were a lot of black children on the spectrum who were also deaf. She's not the first one.
SPEAKER_07I researched all of the majors and I eliminated the ones that sounded not interesting to me. So then I changed it to chemical engineering to work with chemistry. Then I took an environmental science class and I'm like, I think environmental issues are really important, and I'm really passionate about state sustainability and stuff. So then I changed it to finally environmental engineering.
SPEAKER_03Especially in a college town like Don't DoorDash. Like, just go out and get the food. That's good exercise.
SPEAKER_01Hey everyone! Thanks for joining us on this episode of Autism Goes to College. The podcast for students on the spectrum and for everyone who supports us. Navigating college is always a challenge, so here are the hacks, insights, and great ideas you've been looking for to make college work for you. We're a small group of self-advocates. We're all in college or recently graduated, and you can do this too.
SPEAKER_08Autism Goes to College began as a documentary film, following five college students on the spectrum as they navigated college life. At the end of this episode, I'll give you some details about where you can see the film today. And it's all at our website, autismgoes tocollege.org. Every month we drop a new episode. Here's what's also new: there's a resource center on our website with dozens of outtakes of important stuff that didn't quite make it into the film, all of the podcast episodes, and blogs from experts and from student advisors from the film. Thanks for listening. We do hope to hear from you.
SPEAKER_07My name is Jasmine Board, and I was one of the students featured in the documentary film Autism Goes to College. I'm here for an update. Before graduating from UC Riverside in 2022, I was on the podcast talking about looking for my first professional job. And I finally found one and I worked full-time for two years, but about halfway through my work, I decided to go back to graduate school. And now I will share some insights about how that's all going. And I am joined by another student from the film who's also in graduate school.
SPEAKER_06Hi everyone, I'm Annella Fields. I've been working in the entertainment industry since graduating about six to seven years now. I also went to UC Riverside for undergraduate. And right now I'm working full-time and at the same time going to graduate school part-time online, which I'll talk about in this episode. We're both here with Catherine O'Brien, the host of the Autism Goes to College podcast, and I'll hand it over to her.
SPEAKER_08Hey everyone. So thank you to both of you for being here and graciously catching you up. I'm excited to chat with you about graduate school as uh three people who did undergrad as students on the spectrum and have come back for more college, which is in some level an endorsement of the college experience. I think it'll be a great conversation. So for me, after graduating from Bowdoin back in 2012, I am a little older than our other two guests. Um, I worked in biomedical research and pivoted to teaching. I went back to get my master's in education with teaching licensure from Harvard. And now I'm at UC Riverside getting a PhD in special education with a focus on autism. But first, I can talk about my decision to get a graduate degree. Honestly, I think I was operating with a little bit of inertia. I was always planning to do a type of graduate school. And when I started working at a medical school and became pretty rapidly disillusioned with healthcare in America and the things that actual doctors get to do on a daily basis, I sort of thought, well, I'll just get a different grad degree with something I like better and I liked education and teaching better. So I kind of continued the grad school momentum in just a slightly different direction. In hindsight, I regret that my uh undergrads all didn't have work experience and exposure to the realities of medicine, but hindsight is 2020 and I still am pretty happy with how it turned out. So that's the basics of our stories. And I'm just curious to hear how both of you decided to go back for more and then how it's panning out for you now that you're in. So, Agnela, in the documentary film, there's actually a moment where we have you on camera saying, When I'm done, that'll be it for me. I will be the first person in my family not to have a graduate degree.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I feel like when I said that, I wasn't fully aware of all my options at the time. It did end on a much more positive note at Riverside with my last year. But obviously, I just didn't always have the positive experience with school. And I feel like with library and information science, it was a really unique opportunity because uh I really I recently got into just books in general in the last few years. And I've been an avid reader reading over a hundred books the last three years. And it's it's kind of become a bigger hobby for me now. And what was kind of unique about it too is that it's not just library stuff, it's also about information science. It's about how people are receiving information, and it was kind of funny because it kind of lends into my current role in the entertainment industry as well right now, with all the TV shows and movies and content now online between all the streaming platforms. They're essentially big catalogs of kind of like libraries, except it's more TV shows and movies.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I was going to ask if you feel this is a big career change from entertainment or how they're connected for you, but you you brought it up quite eloquently on your own. And did you consider an in-person grad program or did you primarily look at online schools?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I definitely didn't want to leave my current role. I do like what I do. I'm I'm kind of open in the future if it's something still in the entertainment industry that kind of is bolstered by the library and information science, because it's a lot of like different aspects that still relate to it that there are roles for, as well as the option of potentially being a librarian as well. When I was looking for the programs online, it was kind of nice that San Jose's was really very flexible, that you had to just have gotten your degree from an undergraduate, a bachelor, and you had a certain like GPA. So that kind of helped make my decision that it that was probably like my one option because a lot of others like UCLA and USC, they were either five times the cost or you needed references, or and I think they still like evaluated a lot of more different aspects versus San Jose kind of made the entry a little easier as well as yeah.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. And are the actual classes like online synchronous that you're taking, or or is there more of an asynchronous, self-paced aspect to your program?
SPEAKER_06Majority is asynchronous, but some of them do have um certain lectures where you you go into some of them, but they're all online and it's not as like cumbersome as kind of in-person ones. A lot of it is you work through like modules and stuff like that, and the professors are there to answer any questions. Like they'll pre-record a lot of stuff. Yeah. What are you currently studying? I'm in one of my last core classes because I've been in in about a year. So some of them are about the information systems where any information is stored. A lot of it is more critical thinking that's like general for grad school. And the one I'm taking right now is about cataloging. So that's like the Dewey Decimal and the kind of the more traditional aspects to it. So it's it's flexible in the sense that you can, as long as you're hitting certain classes for the requirements, I don't have a specific focus right now.
SPEAKER_08So the the core concentration required to have the foundation for the rest of your master's, essentially. Jasmine, you're doing something a little different. Um, but a master's program in environmental engineering at Cal State Fullerton. How did you decide, perhaps through work, um, that you wanted to get that master's and go back to school? Um, and were was there a certain experience that prompted you to go back and to choose the program that you're now in?
SPEAKER_07It's actually a crazy story. I was actually looking for jobs, uh engineering jobs in Antarctica, and the work seems incredible. And I was looking at the qualifications and they require higher education. And I was like, if I if I want to work in Antarctica, I have to have higher education, and then I'd be doing super cool work and I'd be getting a lot of money.
SPEAKER_08Fascinating. So I'm with you that traveling to Antarctica in a professional capacity and being able to do the work that you love in such a dynamic and extreme environment sounds fabulous. What were you doing as your day job when you were daydreaming about Antarctica? I know that you at one point were working with the California Department of Transportation. Uh, were there certain California environs that led you to believe you wanted to go to Antarctica? How did that come to pass?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I wanted a challenge, and I think the work itself was really fascinating, especially from a place that's not really civilized, and there's a lot to discover. And it drew me in for those reasons because I was like, I want to discover something or or contribute to clean air, clean water out in there. And I also wanted to get a little more independence, even though I was living alone in a it felt like I was still attached to my family and going to their house every night. Nothing wrong with that, but I was like, I I need an escape from my my normal life. Yeah, fair enough. Well, I I did have to move back in with my parents because I did lose my job in April. Okay.
SPEAKER_08How much of your decision to go to grad school was motivated by the potential of higher earnings? And how are you managing the potential short-term financial setbacks?
SPEAKER_07I'd say it's 50% based on earnings, but most of it is really it opens new doors in the career world and it will allow me to research my passions as well. And then financially, yeah, because of the job loss and because it's taking so long for me to find another job, I could not attend grad school this semester, which is a loss-loss situation because when I'm unemployed, it'd be the ideal time to be getting my degree, but it's okay. And normally I receive financial aid, but I think because my GPA is 2.99 instead of 3.0, I I can't receive it anymore. And it's been really, really hard. Oh, that's so stressful.
SPEAKER_08I'm really sorry to hear about that. Yeah. So what about you, Agnela? How are you handling the financial aspects of grad school?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, the financial aspects. Um, so obviously, because I do I'm I'm very fortunate, I do, I do love my job, and I'm really fortunate to um still be in it and get paid decently well for it. So uh again, part of my decision for San Jose was also the cost. It is, it's it definitely is a chips away at my savings, but I do still live at home, fortunately. And it helps my parents out too with my three younger siblings. So that that kind of helps that I have my my paycheck and I basically am paying for graduate school and San Jose is on the cheaper side because I'm in year one and there's two more years to go. It's kind of just also managing my finances to make sure I'm still saving and I'm still like putting money towards retirement and everything and trying to be responsible on that that front. Um, but I'm definitely trying to save more as I have to pay the cost because that was the one thing for my parents, some my older sister too, like that they mentioned they were gonna help with undergrad, but they wouldn't help with graduate school. So I'm very fortunate that I I am in the situation that I'm not paying rent. And so that money is going to San Jose State.
SPEAKER_08So you've done a lot of education already as people who successfully completed your bachelor's degree. How is grad school feeling similar and different to the undergrad experience?
SPEAKER_06I I really do like San Jose State, and it kind of felt like I wasn't at first I was like questioning my decision, but the minute I was in it a bit more, I felt a lot better. San Jose, for some reason, they've done this online thing for a very long time. They've always been online, and they've got it down to a science about if you're taking three units, you're gonna be putting nine hours a week to really like um judge about your um your time management on it. The start of undergrad was definitely tricky. They even noted that too, that the first semester is going to be the hardest for you in terms of adjustment and understanding, but that but then know that more likely than not, you're not gonna have to take as much time later on because you'll have been adjusted and you'll you'll be aware of the ins and outs of the different classes. So um it's the first one that was the big adjustment. Um, compared to undergrad, although the back half of undergrad was nicer when you're in your classes that are a bit more related to the topic that you majored in. The beauty of San Jose was that it didn't matter as long as I had a bachelor's and my medicine GPA, I was able to do this program. But it's it's definitely a very much a lot of attention to detail and timing. Like I I didn't realize how much my writing needed help. And they had a writing center, and I've been using them like constantly to, and it's helped my writing, and it also helps help my writing at work for um even just like regular emails and how to like better communicate and be more concise. Those are the main things I noticed that you really just have to, even more so than undergrad, you have to be more time efficient and time conscious, I guess. It's just a lot of work, and you have to know that you want to do something related to the topic. And I feel like that those are the differences so far I've seen for graduate school.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. Jasmine, do you want to chime in?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I think my my undergrad was more time crunched because I was on the quarter system doing undergrad, but on the in my graduate school semester system, and so there's less of a time crunch, and I'm able to retain information a lot better, especially on days where I'm motivated. So I like grad school a lot more, and the way mine is set up is two classes per semester for like two years. I'd say it's pretty well stressed, but now you have to hold yourself to a higher standard as well, because if you don't do good and and you're only in two classes, now you it's not good. So you gotta really do good in those no excuses.
SPEAKER_06Mine is kind of like that too, because um the first three, um, one of them had the writing portion, which was kind of part of the writing assessment that your writing should be to the standard if you're in graduate school. And like it was almost you have to get an A, like it was like 89 or even like higher percent for our first three classes. The other ones you could get a slightly lower, but you're still maintaining the 3.0 GPA to stay in the program. But when you're in graduate school and you're trying to go for a master's, it's you have the interest, so you're putting the time and effort. And if you are putting enough in, you should be reaching the standards. I was scared when I they said you have to get over 89% in these first three classes. I was like, that's almost a perfect score for everything. And initially I wasn't getting perfect scores. I I mean, spoiler, I did pass those classes. I'm in my first full, I've gone through my first full year, so I've I'm officially in like other classes as well now. Um, but it was a lot of pressure, especially when I wasn't initially getting perfect scores. I am now, but it was um, it was kind of questioning like, am I like am I capable of this with the online aspect too? I think Jasmine Yours is was also online that compared to in person.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I forgot to mention that the the grad schools online were just super convenient in so many ways. And are there drawbacks? Um any drawbacks? Um not not really. Well, you you didn't have to go to the campus in person to take tests, but at least you're only driving out like an hour away just twice a semester. Yeah, in undergrad, I used to have to take that one-hour drive every single day, but now I only do it twice a semester, so that's and then the professors in grad school, they're like they'd give you a project and say, Oh, you can work in a team, but the word can means I can also work by myself, and I I much prefer that.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. I also have appreciated that level of flexibility um that group work is sometimes optional.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. In undergrad, they used to force us to work with a group, and then they would get mad at me because I have difficulty communicating and difficulty arranging uh which portions of the assignments should be done, and then I procrastinate. And so people were getting really frustrated with me in group projects, but in grad school, I gotta do everything myself, and there's not that communication worry or the deadline scare as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08What about you, Agnela? Have you had uh like options to sort of be more customized and and more intentional now that you're a grad student? Yes and no.
SPEAKER_06Some of them in mine, um part of what they want to teach you is the teamwork aspect that you will unfortunately encounter in the workforce. Um so I have had a few cases of group projects. Obviously, everyone is there, wants to be there. So I haven't encountered anything too crazy, but as a person on the spectrum, I'm always a bit nervous that I sometimes have a different way of communicating certain things, or it it doesn't come off the way I want it, or I I in my head I always overthink about like needing to have too much detail or something, and when like you're trying to get a group together, and um our program is online, so that it is like supposed to be more straightforward, but you'd kind of be surprised at still how much everyone's trying to balance and even just trying to like schedule a zoom together call together at the same time. But I I do sometimes like jasmine feel like it, and in most cases, I have had an option to work by myself, and I generally am pretty motivated to and to like work through it. But I'm appreciating though having to learn to work in a team because I do it in my current job. That's and I know most likely any of my future jobs, it's going to probably be the same way. And I'm I'm really fortunate in my current job that um my manager's really good at giving notes about what I should improve on. Like, oh, you don't need all this additional detail. I kind of just need to know this this top line thing. And I think graduate school is kind of helping me in that when I have like a focused assignment and when I'm working with a team, like kind of trying to hone in on that.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. Um, and I I also hear you saying that some of the resources available to you as a grad student, like maybe some writing coaching, were things that helped. And I'm just wondering like how you found out about those and and what they're like for you as a uh online grad student. Cause I I had those resources, but it was kind of easy to figure out because there was like an office on campus that was the writing center and that's where you showed up to get writing help. But I'm imagining it's different online.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so our orientation was online as well, but they showed us all of the services that are available and there's links to all of them but if I do need help I I do prefer to go in person like financial financial aid office or but they also have online availabilities especially mental health resources and recreation well yeah online recreation believe it or not.
SPEAKER_06Oh interesting what about you Agnela at the beginning of the semester actually because I didn't get a perfect score my first assignment they they recommend you to go to the writing center and it's really easy and they offer like a th two to three like free sessions each week. So I was like I was just constantly using those um and I ended up finding a tutor I really liked and I used her and she's actually in LA too so it was fun because we got to meet up in person later on as well. It's been so helpful having like that stability of a tutor um in that online because I think writing is definitely not one of my strengths and it's really easy for me to like to miss things. I have such a busy schedule when I'm balancing my full time and my part-time it sometimes isn't even me myself but that I don't have like the additional time to like look or I do need like a different set of eyes and the tutoring center has been so helpful in that and or it's like a resource that isn't even that you need to have a uh a disability or anything because everyone kind of struggles with the writing in there.
SPEAKER_08Right. And everybody can struggle can struggle with writing and can improve their craft as a writer. So I think it is pretty universal.
SPEAKER_06Yeah because there's also a lot of like details that I mean obviously as autistic I'm I do feel I am better with details but it's so easy to still miss because a lot of our papers are in APA format and I think undergrad I was a lot of I want to say MLA um so it it was a learning curve.
SPEAKER_08My experience also is that graduate courses are incredibly writing intensive and technical reading intensive as as well. You'll be reading in the discipline is that what you're finding too jasmine yeah it's uh a lot of research of course in any class that you take it could be basket weaving and they'll make you write a report. You will read and write about baskets as much as you will make baskets if you are doing grad school baskets.
SPEAKER_07Oh and another thing we do as online grad students is at the beginning of each semester one of there's at least one student in the class that'll send you an email link to like a chat group that they have created for the class that the professor won't have access to and so they use it to study and do voice chat as well. So they create like little stu virtual study groups.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. Initially I was a little hesitant to join those because I didn't know if it would be helpful and I was like this is one more social demand that like I'm not really sure I need but I genuinely find it to be really helpful and I enjoy the um academic and social support that it brings. Speaking of which how is the social aspect of of grad school? Are you finding it to be less social than undergrad? I'm kind of assuming it would have to be given that it is an online experience and there is less face-to-face interaction I socialize the same online as I did in person. I just act like I don't exist okay so it it was minimally social the first go around and it it remains kind of not a very social thing heard. Agnela um how would you contrast uh undergrad to grad as a as a sort of a social experience yeah I mean it is almost apples to oranges like like Jasmine I'm I was on the quarter system too and now it's the semester so it feels like they're very long.
SPEAKER_06Except I I just did the summer semester so it kind of felt like I was right back at a the 10 week pace but I I only took one class because I've been doing two classes this semester but the summer I only took one but I'm still on track. Like they they give you like seven years but they have all these like parameters like they you should be hitting them if you're um and I and I'm only doing it part-time so I'm I should be hitting it but definitely a lot less um like social interactions because online versus in person um because I did undergrad in person they do have like they do like blast these emails of different like groups you can join for online that for specific topics and different opportunities and I did have to interact a bunch like over Zoom when I was in a lot of group projects so there was some talking and funnily enough the tutor I regularly go to she's in the exact same portion of the program as I am so we always end up like consulting each other about some of the like pacing and all the like looking at what are good classes to take and stuff like that. So there I have had a little bit of a social aspect but mostly not as much compared to undergrad when it was in person.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. How about time management particularly Anyella because you have kept your full-time job do you have any tips and tricks? Is it kind of harder than ever it's hard.
SPEAKER_06It is I need to be very disciplined and I need it and again the motivation I I do very much try to be brain off when I'm not in school when I'm there's like the few like weeks off or the week in between summer I didn't get as much because I was taking the summer class but there was a little bit of a break between two I do though know like I need to give myself like a little bit of balance. So like I try to make Friday night and Saturdays when I'm off of work when I get off work on Friday that this is my time off unless I'm like looking at a a tight deadline that I didn't really prepare for but I'm always like trying to like start as early as I can for certain assignments which has helped my time management as well because most of them are modules like most of the teacher you see the whole course outlined from the start to finish and you're you see when the different assignments are due. So I might like work on them even just get started and look at them like a week or two before like it might be normally when they was intended to look at so that I can like chop at it like bit by bit. But I do have to set time like Monday through Thursday the minute that I'm like back home from work after I've like kind of relaxed a little and had dinner and stuff that I'm I'm up pretty late and I have to be really like efficient with that time Monday through Thursday and Sunday as well because that's kind of like I do other stuff on Sunday too but I Sunday's kind of like the overflow day and I just I've gotten it down to a system but it's definitely like tricky and if some weeks are easier than others depending on when certain assignments are due. And it's just staying on top of the assignment dates really.
SPEAKER_08I mean how are you handling the time management pieces Jasmine or how were you handling them uh before you had to take this kind of break?
SPEAKER_07I only lived 10 minutes away from my from work to home and so when I would get home I still have a lot of spare time to work on something.
SPEAKER_08Yeah so the logistics really matter in terms of not we don't all have the same 24 hours because we have different other responsibilities, commutes, etc. So being self-aware about what the existing demands on our time is is pretty important when we approach time management for sure. Agnela I know you said you have seven years, but Jasmine is there a certain time clock on your degree I think it's four years for mine but it shouldn't take that long unless I take too many breaks in between semesters like I am now and I should roughly be graduating in summer of not summer of 27 like end of spring of 27 hopefully if I'm past all my classes. Yeah you know if I am on the expected PhD timeline for a expected PhD that is also when I will be done. I I mean obviously particularly with um the significant reductions in federal funding for research a lot of people at the PhD level are and were funded by those grants that no longer exist. So I think in general there is a concern about finishing your PhD sooner nationwide because the research funding is drying up at an alarming rate. And I certainly have personally felt that fear and we've shuffled around where the funding for my degree is coming from and I swear I only expect that pressure to intensify. Thinking ahead to when you are done are there certain things you're looking for as outcomes to know that the degree was a good investment, that this was a right call? Like is there a certain goal after you have the master's degree in hand that you're hoping will come?
SPEAKER_07For me it's job security like I know if I if I had my degree my graduate degree as of right now I think it wouldn't have taken me several months to get a new job and if I ever get laid off again which is very prevalent in engineering firms I want to have that that backup it establishes credibility.
SPEAKER_08Yeah definitely what about you Agnela we do you think you might just stay in the entertainment industry even though you'll have this sort of library credential that's a good question yeah because you you need this master's from this San Jose is one of the accredited programs with this master's to even be a librarian.
SPEAKER_06I feel like I'm still like as I'm taking my classes I'm and I'm learning the topics I'm trying to be as open as possible to the opportunities like the the two big ones I try to see is either staying in the entertainment industry and finding that niche but I do also want to consider a librarian position but I do need more experience on that. It's I obviously it's kind of hard to do an internship to get more practical experience when I'm working full time and what's kind of is unfortunate is it's technically an option to be one of your classes but I I haven't sorted through that yet. I need to go to the career center a little bit more that that's kind of what I'm envisioning at the moment one of those two but I do know for the library one I would need more practical experience to actually qualify a little bit better for it.
SPEAKER_08Exposure and experience yeah they it it's incredibly competitive to become a a full-time librarian from what I understand even given that everybody who's in that competitive pool has to complete the masters. At the same time though, especially given the just explosion of digital entertainment media I can see such a need for people with that skill set of cataloging and caretaking and keeping media resources to be in the entertainment industry. So even if you do the library internship and get that experience and then realize that what you've gotten is a gut feeling that you want to stay closer to your current role, I think that's like tremendously valuable. And it is very cool that you can get credit for it, which makes it a little bit easier to contemplate changing your work schedule to be able to like take on an internship, for example.
SPEAKER_06Yeah no um it's kind of helped give it like a safety blanket of um like with this accreditation I I have seen jobs in the entertainment industry where you need a library and information science an M M I L S degree when it's like maybe more data driven stuff because they look a lot at like what content is working and why and different stuff like that. So it um it definitely has the both options.
SPEAKER_08Yeah that makes sense and you have some time uh and it's great to have choices that that although it can be hard to have the pressure of choosing something there is something wonderful and liberating in having things to choose from best of luck to you both in becoming masters uh Anyella and Jasmine. Thank you both for chatting with me about grad school. Thank you thank you and now as promised here are ways to see the documentary the documentary film Autism Goes to College is currently available through many channels but the easiest way to see it today is to rent it on Vimeo on demand which you can access from your Apple TV or most smart TVs by going on the Vimeo on demand app. You can also find a direct link on our website at www.autismgoes tocollegeorg. The film is also available for educational use and live and hybrid screening events. All the relevant info and links can be found on our website. Thank you so much for listening, following us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok and especially for adding your reviews on Apple Podcasts. Our show is specifically for students on the spectrum navigating college and we really appreciate your support for Autism Goes to College. Thanks for listening