Postpartum University® Podcast

We Took the Postpartum Nutrition Certification & Here’s What Happened EP 229

• Maranda Bower, Postpartum Nutrition Specialist

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What does it really take to be a postpartum professional who delivers results? 

In this powerful behind the scenes episode, Maranda sits down with 2 CPPNS, Certified Postpartum Nutrition Specialists; Brooke Harmer and McKayla Broadhurst to reveal how the Postpartum Nutrition Certification radically transformed their careers. They get candid about the critical gaps in traditional postpartum care, sharing how this program gave them the tools to not only serve their clients more effectively but also to heal themselves. If you are a birth worker, healthcare provider, or postpartum advocate who knows there's a better way to support mothers, this is the story you need to hear. This isn't just about nutrition; it's about leading a new standard of care.

Check out the episode on the blog HERE: https://postpartumu.com/podcast/we-took-the-postpartum-nutrition-certification-heres-what-happened-ep-229/


Key time stamps: 

  • 00:00: The postpartum crisis and the need for holistic solutions.
  • 02:45: Brooke and McKayla share what brought them to postpartum care.
  • 04:04: The lack of support mothers receive after birth.
  • 06:00: How nutrition profoundly impacts a client's mental health.
  • 09:14: The business benefits of integrating nutrition into care.
  • 13:35: Why many traditional certifications fail to address postpartum needs.
  • 20:09: The critical importance of a postpartum-only certification.
  • 22:41: McKayla's story of healing chronic illness through nutrition.
  • 26:05: Brooke's experience with a provider dismissing her postpartum symptoms.
  • 29:03: The struggle of being an expert while needing to be cared for yourself.


Connect with Brooke [The Well Nourished Mama]

Website | IG | Podcast

Connect with McKayla [Utah Postpartum Care - by Bountiful Doulas]

Website | IG 



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🔔Sign up for the Postpartum Nutrition Certification Waitlist

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🧠Perinatal Mental Health Certificate Training & Additional Courses for Providers & Postpartum Professionals

Speaker 1:

The postpartum care system is failing, leaving countless mothers struggling with depression, anxiety and autoimmune conditions. I'm Miranda Bauer and I've helped thousands of providers use holistic care practices to heal their clients at the root. Subscribe now and join us in addressing what modern medicine overlooks, so that you can give your clients real, lasting solutions for lifelong wellbeing. Today's episode is such a special one because you are gonna hear directly from two incredible providers and advocates who are walking through everything that we are doing in postpartum care and shifting the dynamic of the way in which women experience postpartum, and they've walked through my postpartum nutrition certification program, and everything that they have learned here has radically transformed the way that they are showing up for mothers. These are real women doing real work on the front lines of postpartum care, and what they share today is deeply honest what they were missing before, how the certification fills those gaps, and the ways in which their confidence, their practice and even their personal lives have been influenced, and how their client results have shifted as well, and how their client results have shifted as well. So, whether you're a provider or advocate thinking about deepening your care, or a mom wondering what's possible when someone like truly, truly knows how to support you. This episode is gonna open your eyes to what postpartum can be when we have the right tools.

Speaker 1:

Let's dive in. I am so freaking excited to be here. I've been waiting to do this for a really long time, and every time that I think about doing an episode like this, it's like we don't have time to gather all of the people and, like, fit it into everybody's schedule and find a time that works for everyone, and then I. It just never works. So, first off, first and foremost, I'm so, so stinking grateful for both of you for being here and for showing up in this space and for those who are listening. I know I already shared this with you guys, but I've never done a panel like this before, so it might come out weird, I don't know. I'm just going to show up, I'm going to do it and we'll see what happens. But I have two amazing people here who are going to share their story. And let's just start with who you are and what you do and maybe what brought you into this work of supporting moms.

Speaker 2:

I'll go ahead and go first. My name is Brooke Harmer. I'm known as the Well-Nourished Mama on social media and I originally got interested in postpartum nutrition in the first place because when I was pregnant with my first baby, I was really nervous. I did not grow up around babies, I hated babysitting and the first time I ever held a newborn was when my son was born. So it was all very overwhelming for me and I remember going through like all the prenatal appointments and all that stuff.

Speaker 2:

And when you're pregnant, society holds your hand like literally and metaphorically right. They're like, okay, here's all the appointments, here's everything you need to know. There's so many guidelines, there's all these things that are different. We'll make sure that you're always taken care of. And then they're so careful when it's time to deliver your baby. And then it all stops and you have your baby. They discharge you from the hospital or, if you had a home birth, you just kind of, you know are in postpartum now and all of a sudden, all the support, all the information, all of the treatment plans, everything, it's all gone and you're just left to do it on your own and you're like wait what? I don't understand what's going on, so me trying to navigate all of that for the first time by myself was really overwhelming.

Speaker 2:

And I'm a military spouse and so my husband was gone from five to 11 months postpartum, so I was literally doing it by myself and so that kind of sparked my passion and my desire to learn about how we can support ourselves as moms and then to pay it forward and try and teach as many moms as possible. So over the years it's kind of shifted and changed. But my time in the postpartum certification program really gave me the foundation that I needed to understand how I wanted to approach what I was teaching, because a lot of the advice that we were seeing online didn't really match up with what I was experiencing and what I was feeling. And I felt like I understood that once I went through Miranda's certification program.

Speaker 2:

And so now, three babies later, I am now one of the experts in my field and I'm helping moms understand not just what's gonna help them feel good nutritionally I'm a nutritionist I should probably preface that but I help moms go through pregnancy and postpartum with a holistic mindset, so understanding how diet and lifestyle and mindset all play a role in their health and also educating them on how they can work with their health care providers, because I feel like that's another thing that we need help with is understanding how to talk to our doctors, how to ask questions, how to advocate for ourself without stepping on their toes, without saying that we don't need you and we know better. So kind of marrying all of that together is what I do now, and we've got so many amazing things coming. I just love what I do.

Speaker 1:

I can't wait to hear more about what's coming your way, like we're going to. We're going to have this conversation a little bit later, so we're going to put a pin in that. Michaela, tell us everything about you, like all the things.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so I'm Michaela Broadhurst. I'm from Utah. I started as a certified postpartum doula about four years ago. What brought me into this work was same thing being a mom. In my postpartum experience I was a single mom and I just didn't know a ton. I was a nanny for 10 years prior and I remember my whole pregnancy. Everyone was like, oh, you'll be a great mom, like you're prepared, you know what to do, you've been around so many kids. But nobody told me to prepare for postpartum and so that really hit hard and I just had a really rough postpartum anxiety, depression. It was really really hard.

Speaker 3:

And when I heard of Postpartum Doulas, I immediately jumped in and was like this is what I needed.

Speaker 3:

And then a few clients and I was working for another agency at the time and I had a client that wasn't eating and I was listening to Miranda's podcast and kind of slowly diving into nutrition and I just asked if I could stay up one night I was doing overnights and I asked if I could just make her a bunch of food and that 180 flip with this one client completely changed my view on postpartum care and how much we need to nourish ourselves.

Speaker 3:

And so I from there just signed up for postpartum university and I haven't looked back. I support people through food and started an agency with my best friend called Utah Postpartum Care and we really just dived into the holistic side of things. We have gentle sleep coaches, lactation educators, we focus on nutrition and meal prepping and we really just kind of dive into the whole picture and supporting people through food and what that can look like and I feel like it's made such a difference in so many people's lives and so we've just expanded through the whole state and focus on all things nutrition and sleep and just the whole picture, rather than just kind of this is it and postpartum and not preparing for it like most people do. So it's been a fun and crazy ride over the last few years, but I'm really excited to be here.

Speaker 1:

I did not know that story. I had no idea that you listened to a podcast episode and that was like your entry point in and you from that meals like that's so amazing.

Speaker 3:

I did. I bought your book and I started cooking some recipes and as soon as I saw that difference in this one client, I had to know more and I dived in and haven't looked back. So I kind of switched from a postpartum doula to the postpartum doula that cooks.

Speaker 2:

Hey, I'm curious, though what was the difference? Was it like her mental health, was it like how well she was sleeping? Was it like her bleeding stopped, like two weeks early? Like, what was the difference that you saw?

Speaker 3:

It was her mental health, how she was bonding with her baby. At the time I remember the first shift that I went in she was like I think I ate some cereal this morning. I just haven't really had some time to eat, I haven't been making dinners. She also had told me that she wasn't bonding with her baby the way that she had wanted to and she really just wanted to spend time with her older kiddo and something just kind of felt off to me there, and so I had been listening to the podcast and was like let's just like see what nutrition does and getting her some more sleep, and it was a complete switch. She was sleeping through the night and she was eating and her mood was better. I feel like the postpartum depression went away, like it really was a whole new person, and it was amazing to see and I knew right then that everyone needed that.

Speaker 1:

So it's amazing, and that's exactly what you do now. You provide doula support with nutrition, and how is that done for your, your business and for people coming into you like? Is that like the determining factor for women who choose to hire you?

Speaker 3:

for me. Yes, so there's 10 of us on the team, so most of them don't focus on nutrition. But I anyone that hires me is hiring me for overnight meal prepping, so I'll go in and care for their baby and do the overnight support and use my skills as a gentle sleep coach as well. But I'm there meal prepping the whole night, making them food and freezing it and putting it in their fridge and just making sure that they're nourished through the whole thing. We have a couple other doulas on our team that'll provide meal plans for and they'll do the same thing. So, yeah, that's been kind of my main focus and I would like to just continue to expand that.

Speaker 2:

Hey, can I hire you?

Speaker 1:

Like I know that I'm certified the same way you are but like, can I hire you? Sure, that sounds amazing. That brings up another point. Like a lot of people come into these programs and they're like but what if I don't want to cook? Right, Like, that's me. I'm not a person who enjoys spending time in the kitchen, and maybe it's because I have four kids and maybe it's because I never feel like I get that break, but I I recently, like this summer, my all of my kids are home and I was like I'm not doing this. I hired someone who does postpartum doula work, with nutrition, and I gave her specific recipes and I was like, can you cook this for my home? And it was. It's been like a whole game changer. Do you? I assume that you work majority online and that do you? Do you cook for your clients? Like, or does it look different for you, Brooke?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for me it's 100% online. So all of my work is education focused, and then the application of the education is through my recipes. So I actually started out as a food blogger and food photographer five years ago, before I got into the mama wellness space, but I was able to apply all that stuff that I was already doing to now recipe development for moms. So I have two best selling cookbooks that you can purchase and so you're able to, like, learn from my podcast, learn from my free content, and then see all of that applied when you use my recipes, whether it's the free ones on my blog or the ones from my cookbooks. It really helps.

Speaker 2:

You see. Oh, this is what you mean when you say high protein. We're not talking about two eggs for breakfast. We're talking about there's beans and there's eggs and there's milk and there's this and like just kind of like putting all those puzzle pieces together. So moms are actually like, oh, like this isn't as hard as I thought, but this isn't how I imagined doing it either. I'm kind of connecting all the dots that way.

Speaker 1:

I love that, and so you were actually. You're a nutritionist by trade, like this is what you were doing well before. I'm curious did you get any postpartum training whatsoever?

Speaker 2:

No, no it what I, what I discovered, is all of the training that's out there is.

Speaker 2:

It's just kind of like oh well, this is what works for people, and sometimes there isn't even a differentiation between men and women, which, wow, we need to like stop there.

Speaker 2:

But once you kind of get into women's nutrition, they start to get into like intermittent fasting and keto and all these other things, and then moms are like this isn't working for me while I'm pregnant and breastfeeding. And so there's this disconnect of, yes, there are like general guidelines that we understand that helps with our bodies, we understand balancing our plate and, you know, not eating more than our body needs, and all those principles, but the way that we have to kind of change not change the rules, but like change the application during pregnancy, postpartum and lactation is different and that's what's not being taught. And so everything that I learned in the certification program and that I've learned in my other certifications has really been eyeopening. To be like wow, it's not like we're. We shouldn't make the wellness tips fit us as moms. We should be moms first and then like find what works best for us. And that's kind of where the certification program and my specialty comes in.

Speaker 1:

I love that so much. Did you find, like just out of curiosity, that, being a nutritionist, like would you do that same thing again, or would you just take the certifications that you've taken?

Speaker 2:

You know. So just to make sure everyone's on the same page, a nutritionist is not a dietitian. So I don't have a master's degree. I don't. I'm not the you know, the the highest level of nutrition expert that the country recognizes. However, I would 100% focus on my specialty. If I had to do it again and, like, start from scratch, I would just go straight into the niche and the specialty Because, like I said, the rules for quote regular women, regular menstruating women that aren't in the, the pregnant, breastfeeding years, actually are different and if those aren't the people that you want to serve, then we need to make sure that whoever you do want to serve, you're getting that niche specialty. So, yeah, I think I would totally go back and just start right from the start. This is who I want to serve. I'm going to be a specialist in postpartum care or in pregnancy care.

Speaker 1:

I love that and it's. It's interesting because I did the same thing. I was actually going toward a degree to become a nutritionist and I was, and it was like biological sciences with nutrition and like we were combining those. It was a fabulous program, but there was like nothing talking about what I was already doing and like I was like I'm I'm already here, I'm already doing this work, and then I was like I'm going to be a postpartum doula. I was. I was a doula for many, many years and I was like they have information on this Right. And, michaela, I would love to hear your thoughts on this, because when I entered the field 15 years ago, there was no talk about postpartum nutrition. So I was like bamboozled. I was like dang it. Here. I am again not finding the information that I needed, but I'd love to hear from you as well Was that part of your certifications of the programs that you've attended as a postpartum doula?

Speaker 3:

No, I would say that my nutrition or my postpartum doula training did not cover nutrition at all. I feel like it covered the surface level, bare minimum of postpartum support, which wasn't necessarily a bad thing. I got my foot in the door and I became a certified postpartum doula and I was able to serve mothers, but I was very quickly like have questions about sleep and nutrition and kind of where to go from there, and I found myself doing my own research. I also find a lot of postpartum doulas cooking things that we wouldn't necessarily cook from what I've learned in the program and still including things that aren't the best. So I feel like there's still a lot of work to do when it comes to postpartum doula trainings.

Speaker 3:

This is actually something that I've talked to a few people about. The person that made my training comes to me for nutrition advice for postpartum and I just wish that that was like something that was covered in the training. I feel like there's a lot of work to do there. So, yeah, I would say that it's still not really covered in postpartum doula trainings. I've had a good talk with a lot of the team that I work with and it's the same thing. I've had to teach them kind of nutrition basics, because none of their trainings are covering anything like this.

Speaker 2:

Okay, michaela, can I butt in and ask you a question? I'm curious if your certification as a doula? Think about it for a second. Was it actually more focused on baby than mom?

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, yes, I'm sorry you're hearing me like because this is exactly what I'm seeing in the field, but because, like if it wasn't nutrition.

Speaker 2:

If, like, nutrition and sleep weren't really a part of that, then to me that sounds like it's mostly babysitting.

Speaker 3:

I think so. I think that's exactly why I ended up jumping into overnights and caring for baby more than mom, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but there definitely was so much more to learn and, looking at the whole picture and I think, knowing what I know now, that I probably would have focused more on days and nutrition and things like that rather than caring for baby at night. But yeah, I think that a lot of postpartum doula trainings really do focus on infant care and sometimes the whole family picture. We talked a little bit about PMADS and things like that, but again, not what causes it or nutrient depletion or anything like that. So I think there's a lot of work to be done.

Speaker 2:

So it sounds like what you've done is you've transformed the doula care that you were taught from I'm just going to make sure baby's taken care of so mom can sleep to let's actually start with mom, because mom can take care of baby, and if I can take care of mom, then everyone wins Exactly.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's what I thought so many amazing nuggets. And this is. This was actually my experience. You know, 15 years ago, when my son was born, I was like, oh, I'm going to be a doula, and then there was nothing for mom and I wasn't allowed to do so many things. I wasn't allowed to have conversations with providers, I wasn't allowed to use essential oils, I was not allowed to talk about their birth story because I was not a mental health specialist. Like there was so many rules that were put in place and so I actually never became certified and, which is like a reoccurring theme for me I didn't become the nutritionist, I didn't become the clinical counselor or psychologist that I spent two years earning a degree from. Like none of that transpired because I felt so limited by what I had and the information that was available.

Speaker 1:

I can't tell you how many certifications that I have around perinatal mental health One, because oftentimes there's no conversation about just postpartum and maybe you guys can speak on this too. It's always pregnancy and postpartum, and maybe you can share a little bit about what you've learned as how different that these two areas. I know that the certification that you've taken with me is based solely on postpartum, which I have felt has been one of the only certifications dedicated to postpartum and so necessary, because we don't ever talk about just postpartum. It's always got to be postpartum both, and you know, pregnancy and postpartum, because they're so interrelated. We know that, but physiologically, and this, this period, is so radically different and I would love to hear what your thoughts are on that when you first took this program.

Speaker 2:

For me personally, I one of the biggest myths that I have to continue to bust over and over and over again is this myth that postpartum is just a state of not pregnant. Like, yes, you've birthed your baby, so you're no longer pregnant, but it's not. Like your body is the same pre-p, like postpartum is its own unique phase, just like pregnancy is its own unique phase. The nutrient needs are different, the lifestyle adaptations are different. Like the way that we navigate our health is, and should be, different in postpartum, and it should not be the same as when we're just quote I'm going to say regular again, quote regular women. It's like it actually is physiologically different. Would you agree, michaela?

Speaker 3:

Completely. I, my entire, everything in my life shifted in postpartum and I have struggled with so many like chronic illnesses and things that I thankfully I'm getting back on track on because of this program. But I feel like nobody prepares you for what's to come after birth, like it's so focused on the birth and then postpartum is just like coming home with baby. Essentially, I feel like in most trainings and classes I've taken, it definitely doesn't touch what actually happens and the healing and the body shift and just the whole new identity. Like it's a completely different experience that we don't talk enough about.

Speaker 1:

You brought up a really good point that I would love to kind of dive deeper into, mikayla, is how we shift so much as a human being when learning this information. I'd love to know, like you mentioned, how this has changed you and that you know your health and wellbeing and that, being a mother and taking this course, I'd love for you to dive deeper and explain like what does that mean that it's changed?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's been a whole thing for years to come. But before I had my daughter, when I was pregnant, I actually was diagnosed with bipolar type 2. And as things continued and I got into postpartum I was on so many medications and struggling with everything from bipolar type 2 to then bowel issues where I needed pelvic floor therapy and different things like that, and I just feel like all of that was just kind of pushed under the rug with doctors and providers and there got a point I was so frustrated that I stopped taking a lot of the medication. I felt like it was making me worse and that was the first time where I all of a sudden felt better and when I stopped breastfeeding and everything kind of started to regulate again.

Speaker 3:

I then had PCOS and POTS and we were looking at maybe it wasn't bipolar type 2. And I started working with functional medicine because of what I learned here and that kind of opened new doors that it wasn't all of these things but more so nutrient depletion and that I wasn't taking care of my body. And I just feel like it has been such a 180 since then that I've been able to really just take care of myself and realize that it wasn't just like another diagnosis and another diagnosis and another prescription that I needed, but it was just like step back and care for myself and postpartum and actually heal and I was able to finally feel like I'm in a place that I was able to do that, but not until five plus years postpartum, when I had the knowledge that I did.

Speaker 1:

That's so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that story. That's wonderful, brooke. Same for you. Like has this shaped you as a woman or a provider, or even in your own motherhood? Do you do things differently now, having gone through this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I realized. I think it was this last pregnancy. I'm currently four months postpartum with my third right now. I think it was this last pregnancy where I realized that, yes, my body feels different when I'm pregnant. It just like it just feels bigger and a little bit more awkward, but it still feels like my body when I give birth and I'm postpartum. It does not feel like my body, it feels like a totally different body. It doesn't feel like my body shrunk and I just kind of need to like get in shape a little bit. Like it actually feels like I have an entirely new body and my body now, at this postpartum, does not feel like the same body after my first or second baby, like it feels like I get a new body every single time and like my health challenges are different and the recovery process is different. And I'm actually in the process right now of healing from a whole bunch of things that have just compounded over the years, that have gone undiagnosed, because I'm just a mom what else would it be? I'm just a mom, I'm tired, I'm just a mom. I'm achy, whatever it is, and I actually I actually had this conversation with my provider a couple months ago.

Speaker 2:

I was like I think I was six weeks postpartum. So I was at my appointment and I let them know. Hey, I'm currently working with a registered dietitian and she did a test with me. It's a hair tissue test. For anyone who's wondering, we did a hair test before I gave birth and we got my results back when I was like freshly postpartum and she on our phone call said hey, it looks like your liver is like having a really, really hard time. I don't know what, I don't know why, I don't know how, but I can see some clues in just your hair test that something might be going on with your liver, as well as a lot of the other symptoms that you have. You should request some lab work from your provider.

Speaker 2:

And so I had the conversation with my provider and like, yeah, that's great, we can order some lab work. Blah, blah, blah. And my lab work, blah, blah, blah. And my lab work came back and thankfully I understand how to read and interpret all the labs. So I was looking at it and I was like this looks like lupus. This is like a really big deal. I'm freaking out. And I call my provider back like two weeks later and they're like I'm sorry, we can't help you anymore. You're not postpartum anymore. And I was eight weeks postpartum and I was like what are you talking about? I'm not postpartum anymore. They're like well, like you're not postpartum. We already saw you at your visit, like your six weeks, like it's done. And I was like, all right, this is not going well. So then I had to switch over to my primary care provider and anyway the whole juggle.

Speaker 2:

And retell the entire story with a baby in your arms and like, yeah and so like, to bring that all back. It's this narrative that people just think that once you have your baby, you're back to normal because you're not pregnant anymore. But anyone who's ever had a baby knows that you are not the same person physically, but also mentally and emotionally after you have a baby, and that in and of itself should clue us in that we need specific care. That is just for this period of time, and that's what your certification program does is. It helps us realize that it is not the same as pregnancy yes, it's an, and because there's a baby involved, I guess, the whole time. But like, also, it's its own thing, and when you look at it just from childbirth onwards, it helps you see, oh yeah, like your body's different, your mental health is different, your needs are different and this is how we treat that, this is how we approach that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I hope you're on the healing mend and things are going so much more smoother for you. I think I feel like it's always layered right. I'm six years postpartum with my last, with my fourth, and I still find things that nobody had talked with me about Like nobody. It's hard because oftentimes I think as the expert like you're the expert and you can go solve, you know somebody else's HTMA and you can read the labs and you can do all of the things. Like you're the expert and you can go solve, you know somebody else's HTMA and you can read the labs and you can do all of the things and you can ask all the right questions.

Speaker 1:

But when it comes to yourself, you need somebody else to be there to do this work for you. Right? We, the mothers, need mothering. We can't just sit here and mother ourselves and I find that so often for myself like it's hard to be the one who knows it all. Like I just want to hire you guys. Can you just like, read my labs for me and do that work for me? Can you just come in my home and cook the meals and hold my hand and you know, let me be and mother me in a way that I feel like you know we don't get that, we don't get that, and it's really hard to find those providers who do get it and who can hold that space and be those experts in a way that we so desperately need that. We can't always do ourselves right. Doctors need doctors. A midwife needs a midwife, right, like whatever it is. We need somebody else to be there for us and yeah, that's what we're. We're working hard to change that, but it's going to take a lot of time.

Speaker 2:

Well, miranda, you bring up this point of you.

Speaker 2:

Know, if you're listening and you feel like you are quote doing all the right things and you still don't feel good, good, or you're still not seeing results or whatever is not happening for you, that like just exemplifies everything right, like that's why we need this information, that's why we need this care, because we're doing our best and we're limited with our own biases, right, and so that's why we need professionals like us to come in and say you're right, you do know that you need to take it slow, you do know that you need to adjust things a little bit, but maybe you didn't see this.

Speaker 2:

And that's the value that we bring. And that's the value that the certification brings is that it allows us to be that objective third party. Even for people like us who know all the right answers, it's like I don't know what's happening. And then Miranda walks in. She's like hey, brooke, I know you know this, but like, did you see that it's not quite happening the way that you thought? And like, oh, yeah, okay. So yeah, every mother needs a mother, and if you're feeling like you're doing all the right things, we just need a fresh perspective.

Speaker 1:

I love that and if you're feeling like you're doing all the right things. We just need a fresh perspective. I love that. You know it's funny because I found myself just the other day talking with my provider and she's like hey, miranda, like have you done this? And I was like, oh yeah, I forgot, like I knew that I really did. And she's like I know, you know, I know, you know, but I truly just like, oh yeah, I have to apply that to myself. Duh, okay, I'm on it. It's so funny how we forget. I would love to hear your perspective for both of you, of like, for a provider or someone who's an advocate in the field, who's been doing this hard work. If they're on the fence and they feel maybe they're not clinical enough, maybe they don't want to cook in the kitchen, maybe it feels too clinical for them, because I get both sides of that, like it's not clinical enough and it's too clinical depending on where they sit at the table. What would you say to those who are just wanting to but just not sure yet?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I feel like I think anyone should take this class that's interested in postpartum nutrition, whether it's just the basics or diving in.

Speaker 3:

I feel like I've met several people from this program and I'm one of the only few that cook in the home.

Speaker 3:

I know there are some out there, but I think a lot of them do coaching program and I'm one of the only few that cook in the home.

Speaker 3:

I know there are some out there, but I think a lot of them do coaching too, and I think that it's just so cool that you can kind of pick and pull what you want to do with it and you don't have to use all of the information. If you want to just cook, then you know exactly what to cook, and if you want to coach, you can walk them through that too and understand labs and all of those things. Like there's so much you can do with this where I don't think there's like one set thing when you get certified where you have to cook in the home or you have to do online coaching. I've never done any online coaching and I think there's some of us that are writing cookbooks or have written a cookbook and but you don't have to do that either, like you really can just use the information in any way you want and, at the end of the day, you're still helping and healing mothers and, I think, getting the information out there and that's so important.

Speaker 2:

I totally agree and I would add to that. I think there's also this idea of like just being better informed, Like I don't want to make this political and it won't be but the the whole switch that's going on right now in politics, where they are pushing for more nutrition education in medical school. Whether you agree with that or not, that's the direction that our country wants to go and I think it kind of speaks to that idea where we're not trying to make the doctors the experts in nutrition, but just that added information hopefully will help them change their care a little bit, to where they now have more questions to ask when a problem comes their way, or they now know enough to say you know what this sounds like, it might be nutrition related. I'm going to refer you out instead of just writing them off or handing them a prescription or whatever.

Speaker 2:

So I think that same principle can be applied to someone who might be on the fence with this program is if you don't want to be like me, you don't want to be a nutritionist who develops recipes and teaches, like the, the science-y stuff, or you don't want to be a doula like Michaela who is physically cooking in the home, that's fine, but this is a chance for you to at least have the knowledge and the information to then maybe just change it for yourself.

Speaker 2:

Maybe you are going to be postpartum again one day and now you know enough to do it a little bit different. Even if you are the only person that benefits from that knowledge, you don't necessarily have to go out and teach it. It could be just for your knowledge. It could be for you to share something with your provider at your six week checkup and be like hey, I just thought I'd let you know I did these things differently this time and this is how much better. I feel Like you could really do it in so many different ways. But I think it's the information that is powerful, rather than, like, the specific way that you choose to apply it, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, totally, and I think we're finally recognizing, like our country, and the US here specifically is asking for more education for nutrition, because we understand how significant nutrition is for nutrition, because we understand how significant nutrition is. It's in every foundation of our bodies, the way we function, the way our brain thinks. You mentioned the hair analysis, the HTMA right. There's actual trainings that talk about how, if we're deficient in a couple of key vitamins, that it actually changes our personality and the way we interpret things that come into our world, and so that's a huge connection between our food and the way we engage with nutrition and how we interact within the world and the way we are healthy within our bodies and out of our bodies as well like just communicating and in our environment. And I think the shift to nutrition is massive.

Speaker 1:

We're seeing the shift significantly where people are wanting more information on nutrition, especially in, I think, perinatal and general Like. We're asking for more. Women are demanding more. We're hiring postpartum doulas who can cook. We're asking for coaches who can pull these HTMA analysis or who can help coach us through food and nourishment, and we're seeing this big boom.

Speaker 1:

We're seeing a whole thing and with it we're also seeing a multi-billion dollar postpartum supplement market, which I think is absolutely insane, because we have always had a supplement market and we've always had a pregnancy like supplement market. Right, it's always. It's like a sub market. We've never had a postpartum supplement market, we've never had that. And it's multi-billions and that's just insane to me to know that. Yes, the market is shifting and this is where it's going. This is where people are wanting this information and with that I wanna hear a little bit about. I said earlier that we would put a pen in it. I would love to know where are you going now in your business? You've got this information. You're doing amazing things in your local communities and beyond and I'd love to hear how is this, how is your business moving, where? Where is it going next?

Speaker 2:

Some really exciting things are happening. I'm actually partnering with my OB's office to kind of be like a contractor for them to offer nutritional support for their patients Now, obviously OB's don't really dabble into postpartum but offering support to their patients that come in that have higher risk for gestational diabetes, preeclampsia, all those things I am starting to educate them on specific lab work that they can run in first trimester to say, hey, this is where they're starting and if the trend continues, there's a high likelihood that they'll develop preeclampsia, even if they're exercising or whatever. So supporting them that way and then, if interventions need to be made, helping in that way as well. So excited to do things locally. And then, as for my business, I'm actually launching a membership next month that will actually turn into an app that you can download on your phone next year. But this will be a one of a kind I'm going to say app because that's what it will be. It'll be a one of a kind app instead of the pregnancy app where it takes you week by week and it says, hey, baby is the size of a cantaloupe and here are your symptoms, make sure you take an antacid and lay down after you have a long day or whatever, where all the care is focused on baby.

Speaker 2:

This is going to be the first comprehensive perinatal app that focuses completely on mom, so it's going to take you through each week of pregnancy, but it's going to teach you hey, this is what is going on in your body this week. Here is how you can modify your diet and your lifestyle to support your body, and here's the foods that you need to eat to support your body, like, yes, we're eating choline to support baby's brain development, but also, mom needs choline too, so here's why choline is important for mom. And then, the best part the first ever postpartum app for moms Right now. I checked the app store last night. There's only apps for postpartum exercise, so that you can bounce back, and I think there was one postpartum app that had like less than 100 downloads. That was just for mental health. There is currently no postpartum app out there that is a comprehensive approach to recovery and well-being, and so that is what I'm launching next month and in the process of creating to really support moms in the way that they've been asking for through pregnancy and postpartum.

Speaker 1:

Connect with me on that, because I want to support you a thousand percent in all of that. So let's talk about a partnership on that one. That is freaking amazing. I'm so excited for you, thank you, okay, michaela, tell us all the things.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So right now I would say our next big thing is the rebrand to Utah Postpartum Care. A month ago we were just down a full doula, so we've expanded from a few counties to the whole state and we're focusing more on nutrition and I'm partnering with some meal delivery services here to make postpartum specific menus to deliver to hopefully not just our clients but postpartum moms across Utah. And then I'm currently writing a book that's called the Fourth Trimester Club. That's really just like a workbook that walks you through everything fourth trimester, from prepping to meal planning to what you actually need, that nobody talks about, just a combination of all of the knowledge I've learned in the past few years, and so I'm really excited to just do that and kind of step back from in-person work hopefully early next year, but we'll see kind of where it goes.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my goodness, that is incredible that you are expanding that much. So what? How big is your team now?

Speaker 3:

We're at 10. So we have a list of people that would like to join too, but we're just kind of trying to get through this rebrand before we continue expanding.

Speaker 1:

So we'll see. And when does your book launch? Yes, but that was my next question.

Speaker 3:

Tell me about this book. So my plan was for early next year. However, I just found out that I'm expecting, so that may actually be pushed a little bit, but I also feel like it's the perfect time to continue to write it and kind of redo my own postpartum as I'm doing it. So I'm really excited.

Speaker 1:

Congratulations. That's a multitude of vowels.

Speaker 2:

I did Congratulations. That's a multitude of vowels Also. I'm sure you're you've heard of them, but can I put a plug in for Beehive Meals? If you need to partner with a meal delivery service, I have been talking to Allison.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, okay, perfect I love that.

Speaker 1:

This has been amazing and I'm so grateful that you are all here sharing this information, and I'm going to walk away with one question for you both. After this, I'm going to walk away and we're going to do our things and it's going to be amazing, but I want to know if you had a magic wand to wave and it could change anything about how we care for postpartum mothers, what would it be?

Speaker 3:

Hands down nutrition and holding space for that and making sure that they know what they can eat in postpartum. That will actually help aid in recovery and not slow things down. I think it can make an impact for years to come, and then I wouldn't have been dealing with all of the issues that I dealt with at four or five years postpartum, had I known from the beginning. I really think that it just changes lives and everyone around you too. I know we talk about that in the program, but it doesn't just impact you, it's your family, your friends, your neighbors, your coworkers. So yeah, I think if I could change anything, it would be how we handle postpartum nutrition.

Speaker 2:

I love that I would add more postpartum appointments and shifting the idea that your OB is just for pregnancy and taking it through in my mind the first 12 months postpartum automatically order XYZ labs during your six week checkup and then you would have follow-up appointments at six, nine and 12 months to monitor you and make sure that you actually are healing and that you're getting that support that you need if things are coming up. So I would say expanding our medical care to include postpartum.

Speaker 1:

I love that I was. Actually. I just scheduled a post for next week about how we need, like a postpartum specialist, like somebody who is trained in nutrition and hormones and just general, you know, psychological wellbeing, breastfeeding, pelvic floor, like it's a lot of specialties, but they don't need to know the deep specialty of each and every one. We can save that for the specialists who are very much trained in that. But to be able to go see somebody for a year or two who can support your general care and refer out if you need additional PT work or whatever the case may be, but who could be there and know all of that information without you having to go schedule, you know, five different appointments with different specialists and providers, would just be the best thing in the whole world.

Speaker 2:

Or Googling everything.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh. Or chat to BT, like that's a thing which I have. I can't even tell you how wrong that has come up so many times. Like it's. Just be careful when you're chachipiting. Postpartum care. Oh, ladies, thank you so so much. I appreciate you deeply. Thank you so much. Is there anything that I didn't ask that you wish I would have?

Speaker 2:

I don't think so.

Speaker 1:

Just make sure you know where to find all of us if you need support. Yeah, absolutely. We're going to have all of your links in the show notes, of course, and yeah, I highly recommend clicking on all of them. Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1:

This has been such an epic conversation. These women are simply incredible and I am so honored to have them in this community. Make sure you check out their work. We've linked everything for you in the show notes below. They're doing powerful, necessary work in this world and I know that you're going to want to connect in with them. And what's even more incredible is that there are hundreds more professionals inside the certification just like them Midwives, doulas, nutritionists, therapists, nurses, chiropractors, doulas you name it, you name it. They're here, all building something bold and meaningful with the tools they've gained here.

Speaker 1:

If this conversation lit a fire in you, if you found yourself nodding, dreaming and thinking I want that too. This is your moment. Get on the wait list. This is your last shot to do it before the program opens. For the postpartum nutrition certification program, you can do that at postpartumu.

Speaker 1:

The letter ucom slash certification. Of course we have that in the show notes as well. Dot com slash certification Of course we have that in the show notes as well. Our program will open up in September for enrollment and when you're on that wait list, you are going to be the first to know when enrollment opens and it always, always, always feels fast Within the first 48 hours, our program is closed.

Speaker 1:

We are actually anticipating that we won't even get to launch to the public this year, but likely it will only be through the waitlist, because our waitlist has grown so stinking much, and when you're on the waitlist you also get access to early bird bonuses and insider info that you will not find anywhere else. So this certification is so much more than education. It's a revolution, and we want you in it. Thanks so much for being a part of this crucial conversation. I know you're dedicated to advancing postpartum care and if you're ready to dig deeper, come join us on our newsletter, where I share exclusive insights, resources and the latest tools to help you make a lasting impact on postpartum health. Sign up at postpartumu the letter ucom, which is in the show notes, and if you found today's episode valuable, please leave a review to help us reach more providers like you. Together, we're building a future where mothers are fully supported and thriving.

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Maranda Bower

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