Henna and the Strength of Moroccan Women

One of the highlights of a visit to Morocco is getting a henna art design, something as authentically Moroccan as tagines and desert camping. More than just a decorative activity, henna has deep cultural roots in Morocco, particularly for women.

Our guest today is an expert henna artist, offering design experiences to travellers from around the world out of her home studio in Marrakech. Many listeners and guests on the podcast have had this experience themselves.

But few of us have known her remarkable true life story, until now. Born in a mountain village in the High Atlas mountains, Siham was put into an arranged marriage in the mid-2000's, and became pregnant at the age of 19. Despite being worldly and well-educated, she was facing a bleak future in a society of pre-determined roles and customs.

In today's episode, Siham shares how she took control of her and her daughter's lives, making bold choices and becoming self sufficient. Key to this achievement was her ability as an artist, which opened doors and opportunities in tourism and beyond.

Azdean and Siham talk about the power and strength of women in Morocco, the many barriers that still exist, yet the inspiring examples of Siham and others like her.

We learn about the history of henna, and the many occasions where it is used. Siham explains how henna parties are a part of a bride's wedding preparation: more than just an art session, it's a major event!

And being so popular an activity, scams to hook tourists in will inevitably abound, at the Jamma el Fna square in Marrakech in particular. There are numerous reasons to avoid these and other scams, and Siham shares some horror stories of "tattoos" gone wrong and exorbitant fees charged.

If and when you're in Marrakech, go for the real deal: an all-natural, custom-designed henna experience from an authentic artist. Siham is a wonderful artist, host, cook, guide and more, and will welcome you into her home with open arms.

You're about to learn:

• What exactly is henna, the plant.
• How henna differs around the world, and the Moroccan interpretation of it.
• How henna paste is made, and when it should be made.
• Why authentic, hand-mixed henna paste is not just better quality but will last much longer than what you find in the square, where it is chemical and cheap.
• Can you buy the hand-mixed paste and do it yourself?
• What tool Siham uses to create her designs.

Do you dream of exploring the enchanting land of Morocco?

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If you're a discerning traveler who values an immersive, curated adventure, visit www.destinationsmorocco.com, and let us bring your dream Moroccan vacation to life.

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Transcript

SIHAM: 0:45

 I feel like this is not my base. I have to do something. And then I had the reason that it's my future baby. I just feel like I'm very soon going to be responsible about another life. So let's do something, trying to make life better.

AZDEAN: 1:07

 Welcome to the Destination Rockall podcast, the show that takes you way to the beautiful country of Morocco. I am your host, azadeen Al-Mustakim. In each episode, we explore Moroccan culture, history, attractions and activities Real and practical information coming from experienced travelers and native Moroccans like myself. Our goal is to help travelers that are struggling with planning any type of trip to Morocco. Our company, destination Morocco, builds personalized your packages that will ensure you enjoy our country just like local. Follow us at DestinationMorocco.co. And now let's go exploring. 

Welcome to Destination Morocco podcast. In this episode, we have a Hanna Tattoo artist all the way from Marrakesh. Her name is Siham Sahiri. She's here to talk about her business, Hanna Tattooing, and share her experiences with the audience. Siham, welcome to Destination Morocco podcast.

SIHAM: 2:24

 Hello everyone, so happy to be here with you today. Thank you so much for inviting me. Thank you.

AZDEAN: 2:32

 You're very welcome, very welcome. I do have a lot of questions and I'm so, so excited by this episode and I've been actually looking forward for quite some time. So, siham, we've talked to you and I for a long, long time and I know your story. It is fascinating, it is beautiful, it's amazing. It is really really incredible. Tell us about yourself, who you are, your background and also what you do, please.

SIHAM: 2:55

 Well, I'm Siham. My last name is Issa Hiri. A lot of people don't know me including you you just knew today. So a lot of people know only my name, like Siham, and my business name. I was born in a small village nearby Marrakesh. I have four sisters Actually we were five sisters with no boys. So I grew up in the farm, peace place, calm, no internet, no entertainment, just with animals, nature and so on. That's what allowed me to have the opportunity to create my own entertainment. Hina was actually from my first favorite stuff. I was actually kind of playing with it because I got Hina almost every day from my grandmothers pace because she was dyeing her white hair using Hina. So I had it every day, almost every day at home. Of course they didn't have the tools, but I created also my own tools to apply and try to apply. Of course I wasn't very good, I was just a kid playing, but I tried to do like swells and some shapes on my skin and I just felt very early age that I am like loving this thing. So I started to do it a bit more than my sisters, for example, did. I started to practice a little bit more and more on my hand, sister, as I said, they are four, so I had plenty of plenty of victims. Of course they took so many years to improve to be good enough to do it for like a neighbor or my mom or whatever. So the story started like this and then, well, I was in the village until high school and then, as a lot of girls in the village, I got married. So of course, as a girl in that generation, it was super hard to be able to move to this city or live alone, like to go to university or whatever. So high school was the last thing you can do there. Of course there is no job, Even like the markets, even the weekly market we had in the village. We weren't, as girls, allowed to do or to go there. You know Almost of my friends, like girls that were at school, they couldn't even go to high school. So for me I was even lucky because we were only in total only three girls that went to high school, because it was about 10 kilometers away from our small small village to go to the central big village where the high school was. So it was quite challenging. It was like six years that I was biking 10 kilometers every day, four times per day, to get to school. So this was very challenging but I mean I've been very good student and the hard worker. I was smart enough to do it and I really believed what I want. I believe there must be a better life. There must be like a more interesting life, more than I see here. For me and for my other sisters, as well as all our friends at school, the life or the world, let's say the world was the village, was our friends at school, was our teachers, and it was the education that we were getting at school. We didn't know any other information, right, but I always had the feeling that there must be another world outside and there must be something more interesting. So I mean, I was thinking this way a lot. And then in my 18th as I told you was high school, Of course, nothing to do more. This is the life that you can do. And then, as a lot, of course, just an arranged marriage. But this one was actually from a family that lives in the city of Marrakesh. So his mom came like to ask my mom if there's no way that she wants her son to get married to me. So he never saw me. He never chose me. She chose me for him. She saw me somewhere in a wedding. Well, it's still happening in some now, but very few comparing with the past. So mostly is the mom who the mom is the one in charge of choosing the future wife for her son. So that's what happened with me. For me, I didn't really even understand what is marriage, what is the responsibility, what is alive, what is you understand? After all, my thoughts was focusing on the go to the city of Marrakesh to be out of the village, Because I knew after high school it's going to be home. You know the farm. So I did. And then, very fast, I got pregnant at the age of almost 19, which is very early and expected. Also A few months later started to discover that the life there is not the best. Now, wrong family. They were not treating me good, very like non responsible husband Was always absent. So I just realized that I'm there to cook and clean for everybody in this big family. I was like a kind of a slave. I couldn't go out. It was even worse than the village because at least in the village I could go to the farm, play with animals, do things in the nature. I am in Marrakesh, in the city, inside the house, never allowed to go, even out. So it was worse and then again the feeling inside me started to feel like this is not my place. I have to do something. And then I had the reason that it's my future baby. I just feel like I'm very soon going to be responsible about another life, so let's do something, trying to make life better. I didn't want to raise my child in this family, so I was trying to make a lot of solutions. It was very challenging. Now I'm just deciding like to write my story on a book later I'm going to share with you, but at the end of the story I ended up by getting divorced. It's not easy. Definitely, divorce is not easy in Morocco, especially for a woman. For a woman that she's making the decision to do it. It's not as easy as a man when he does. So everyone was and everything was against me, whatever, lol, my family.

AZDEAN: 9:00

 Oh, I can imagine.

SIHAM: 9:01

 I mean everyone's society as well. It's always blaming women, women, women. Okay, well, she's not good, you understand.

AZDEAN: 9:09

 Yeah, definitely yes.

SIHAM: 9:10

 Unfortunately, so it was super hard, but I just decided to don't care about anything. I closed my ears and then I just tried to make it by myself, because I didn't want to get back to my family's house, which supposed to be the normal way. The normal is that a Moroccan girl is at her parent's house when she's not married, of course. If she's married, her husband's house. If she engaged the worst case of course, get divorced she will have to come back to the. That's what I also refused. I didn't want to come back to the zero, so I tried it by myself. I work for my first career as an educator, as a teacher for preschool, and this was in purpose, because I was thinking about any job where I can leave my kids with. In the meantime, I actually was trying to make the life continue, I mean between me and my ex-husband, because of course I had make it. I didn't want to raise her with no father. Of course, this is not an easy decision, definitely not. So I stayed for almost three years trying to make it work, but it didn't. At the end of the story, we ended up really feeling like this is not going to work. It became like a toxic atmosphere to raise a child. So I made my decision. And then, okay, my ex-husband was super smart. He wanted to get divorced, but in Morocco low at that point. If, as a woman, I got divorced, then I automatically lose all my rights from him. So he's not going to pay nothing.

AZDEAN: 10:42

 So basically, what you're saying is, when you file for divorce as a woman in Morocco, you don't get support from your husband in terms of child support.

SIHAM: 10:52

 Not in terms of child support. I'm talking about my right as a ex-wife for a couple of years.

AZDEAN: 10:57

 I see.

SIHAM: 10:58

 For his child definitely something has to do depending on his income, and that's what happened at the end of the story. It was almost a year of process and then it ended up by me asking about divorce because he didn't Even he wanted but he didn't Of course to don't pay extra money for me. I accepted it was more important to live in a safe and calm atmosphere for my kid.

AZDEAN: 11:22

 Absolutely yeah.

SIHAM: 11:24

 So in the court, of course, they asked him to pay some money for his daughter for per month and see her once per week, which never happened until now, which is more than 10 years ago. He never done this or even seen her or helped her with anything, which is funny. So there is law but there is no follow-up. That's what I'm trying to explain. Well, it happened. I got divorced. I ended up with my kid, melek, her name she was almost five Later. I was a coordinator of volunteers, manager and also an educator advisor. So I worked with those volunteers in different schools in the city and also in a lot of villages around Marrakech, in Atlas Mountains and around, teaching languages, doing a lot of programs and workshops, educational and playing, singing a lot of nice stuff. Then I just decided that I will have to stop my work for education and change it with something else that will allow me to be more free for my kid, help her to get to school, make lunch for her for lunchtime, etc. So at this point I started to think what can I do as a job that will allow me to have some income to live and raise my kid and also be free and control my timing, according to hers. So I ended up becoming a self-employed entrepreneur. I work for a lot of different activities for tourism. I started to do hosting, to do a couple of activities such as cooking classes that I organize in. Now I also can organize a lot of excursions and tours around Marrakech activities. And then, of course, my highlights was always since my childhood you already hear that it was henna artwork.

AZDEAN: 13:13

 So my next question for you is the henna tattoos you create and the designs. What inspires you? Where do you get your inspiration?

SIHAM: 13:23

 I am a big lover of Moroccan architecture style arts. You would see a lot of intricate designs around on the wooden door, on the tiles, whatever. Those are all the big or maybe the first inspirations for me. I love those. And then, of course, sometimes it's also people's interest. I would ask people what is your interest? Or when you were around the market, did you or have you seen any design that you still thinking about to make your tattoo like personalized? So a couple of them will show me something or ask me oh, I saw this design, does it mean something? So we started together. Create their own henna design.

AZDEAN: 14:07

 Yes, oh wow. Can you tell us is there a difference between the old henna tattoos and the new henna? Because for me, I remember growing up how henna tattooing or artistry was, and now it's completely different. Can you tell us that transition change please?

SIHAM: 14:26

 Yes, definitely. Well, henna, or Moroccan people have been using henna for centuries, right, it was first to dye their hair, fingernails, as well as fabric. That was before it starts to decorate the skin with designs and patterns for special occasions. The designs were itself very simple because the tools wasn't very advanced Like we can find now, like a cone or a syringe that make very thin and fine lines that allow you to draw a more detailed designs, right? So mostly they were just using the top of their fingers to do any very, very, very simple designs. But the point was to have the henna, or the color of the henna on the skin, right, especially for these special occasions, because having a design and pattern with henna onto the skin, it was meant to bring the good luck, the protection and the blessings for people wearing them. So this was very important that people didn't really care about the beautiful designs as much as they cared about having the henna.

AZDEAN: 15:35

 That makes sense. Now you know, when we say henna in Morocco it's different than when people say henna in the US. You know there's different types of henna. They say tattooing, but I know it's not a tattoo. So I remember when I was a kid, in our garden, a lot of houses most of the houses, they have a small garden. In our case we had a small tree for henna. It is actually a tree, it is actually a plant, but the way that I have seen my mom, my aunts, my sisters, my cousins make it, it's really, really intriguing process. Can you tell us a little bit of a background, if you would, a little bit of history behind the henna in Morocco, the significance of the henna tattooing or henna artistry when it comes to Moroccan women?

SIHAM: 16:20

 Well, as you said, henna is a plant. That actually the first question I ask on every guess I've met Do you know what is henna? So 90% of them, mostly they don't know, they're thinking it's painting. So henna is not painting, it's a flowering plant. So henna, or lausonia, is a flowering plant that grows 12 to 15 feet, as you say, high in dry and hot climate. So in Morocco we throw it a lot through the Atlas Mountains. A lot of families actually planted in their cook yard, as your family did, and this because it was a very principal product for Moroccan beauty, like as a cosmetic product. You know already about the humam, right? So we use it as cream for our bodies just before it to get in the scrub in the humam. It keeps the skin very like, soft and good and smelling very good too. So it's very useful in many, many other cosmetic reasons. Besides doing the tattoos, Henna is something that I company Moroccan females or women since they are born, because we do the henna for the new baby girl, new baby born in only the third day. So when a girl was born the third day, she's going to get her henna done for the first time in her life ever, with a small circle inside the palm of the right hand. As I said, it's meant to bring good luck for her for life, protection and blessings for her For all special occasions. We're going to do henna for holidays, religious holidays, when we have like a party, a wedding, when we are invited, we're going to do henna. And then when the girl turns to the 11, 12, when she's able to do Ramadan fasting for the first time in life, or let's say even can't be before, so let's say when, the first day that she's trying to fast and can make it and sense it, her family is going to celebrate her in a very beautiful way, dressing up with nice Moroccan cocktails.

AZDEAN: 18:21

 It's a beautiful event and I know that people do it different, whether they are in Marrakech, for example, in Sawera and Fass. Can you tell us just expand a little bit on that? When it comes to girls, I know exactly what you're saying, but I just want the audience to know even in Morocco, the culture is different and it varies from city to city. So if you can tell us a little bit more about the girls, if it's the first time, they try to fast the whole day of Ramadan, Sometimes the first time they do half a day, but when they do the full day they get rewarded for it. Please walk us through that process, Siam.

SIHAM: 18:51

 Yeah, yeah, it's actually definitely worth it for we really. I personally got it and I felt like, wow, I did something extraordinary, that I fasted all the day. So for my family, I knew that I can be very patient. I cannot stay all the day with not eating and drinking. It was like a very challenging, of course, in this age, but I was extremely happy with the party they did for me, of course, and the beautiful dress, and I don't know what about Fass, but in Marrakech, in my village, we got to drink. The first thing after breaking fast is milk, and it wasn't in a glass, it was in an empty snail.

AZDEAN: 19:35

 I'm never going to your village.

SIHAM: 19:39

 Well, it's clean, right. So whenever you eat snails in the square, right, you have that karakasi now that. So it's a clean. But I don't know what's the point, honestly, that they use that. But the first drop of milk you're gonna break fast with is gonna be using that. So I got that and, of course, all my family was so happy that I made it. And then, definitely after breaking fast, I got some henna done from my grandmother and she was very happy that I did it. Henna is very, very important and present in every happy occasion, including engagements. So the future ride is gonna get some henna done on the hands for this occasion, but most of the she's getting it before the party. And then, of course, the following occasion it's gonna be the weddings. The weddings day is, I think, something that's very famous in the world right now. A lot of people even try and decide to come to Morocco to celebrate their weddings in our way, because it's very special and nice.

AZDEAN: 20:43

 Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you know it's funny. We did an episode about wedding, the culture and the negafa, which is the dresser, if you would, for the bride. We talked about henna and the culture and the tradition a little bit, but the funny thing, the girl, her name is Seham as well, so but it's she's also from Marrakesh. So it's kind of really neat. So I know, when it comes to henna in Morocco it's a serious matter and the significance of henna we cannot really stress enough. It's really, really, really important in our culture, in the Berber culture, but also in Moroccan culture as well.

SIHAM: 21:18

 The henna party. It's maybe the biggest and the most important henna celebration. It's important for every girl in Morocco that even all little girls dream about the day that they're gonna get the henna party for their wedding. Okay, so it's a night. It's mostly a girly party, a girly night.

AZDEAN: 21:39

 Yeah, it's the equivalent to the Bachelorette party in the US, so just to give people a perspective. Can you tell us a little bit more please, if you can expand on that Seham?

SIHAM: 21:49

 Yeah, sure. So henna party is a henna night that takes place mostly one or two days before the wedding day. It's a night filled with music, food, dancing. It's a girly night, so mostly the bride is going to be surrounded by her female friends, neighbors and family only no men. And then everybody's gonna get some henna done. The bride's gonna get the most biggest intricate designs on hand, both sides covered with henna, almost sometimes into the elbows, and then the feet, feet covered with henna and the bottom of the foot. This is gonna be for the first time in life, because only married women in Morocco can do henna on the bottom of the foot.

AZDEAN: 22:36

 I did not know that.

SIHAM: 22:37

 Yeah, additionally, it is a sign of a married woman. In Morocco, the henna on the feet, especially the bottom of the feet. Before it was a way for women to organize the non-married girls in gathering and parties and weddings. So, as I mentioned before, always women or mothers are in charge of choosing the future wife for their son. So always these celebrations and weddings was a good occasion to organize those girls who's married and who's not, so to choose and to pick right. It's a very big part of Moroccan traditions making you feeling like that good energy in you and the beauty and the joy of life. If henna, it's actually more than a cosmetic products. Henna is also an art form or self-expression.

AZDEAN: 23:32

 Yes. So the next question that I have for you this is really really fascinating, siham. Can you walk us through the process of you creating henna experience for one of your guests, from getting the henna prepared, getting that paste ready, getting everything ready and then applying it. And then, when you're applying it and you're done with it, how long does it really take to dry? Would you recommend for somebody to do their hands and feet if they're really active and if they don't have a lot of time in Marrakech? What are your recommendations, please?

SIHAM: 24:04

 The process of henna making is an art form in itself, actually. That starts by grinding the dry henna leaves into a very found powder, and then we mix it with lemon juice and some essential oils to create a thick paste. Later we apply it on the skin, making the designs and patterns. That takes a few minutes to dry, depending on the temperature of the room. A heater is always recommended and that's what I use for my guests to dry their henna as fast as we can.

AZDEAN: 24:41

 I see.

SIHAM: 24:42

 If it's getting cold in the room it's gonna take sometimes into an hour, but with the heater it's gonna be 10 minutes to 15 minutes max and then it's dry. When it's dry, we're okay. We're comfortable to move and walk, but it's always better to keep it on the skin, even when it dries, because your skin is always absorbing better and better color. The henna paste I talked about. It's always recommended to keep it to marinate for a couple of hours before applying it on the skin. It definitely gives a better color. So basically for each experience, you create that paste fresh, definitely yes, so a natural henna paste you cannot keep for more than 24 hours 24 hours. It's gonna lose the color in it because we don't use any preserved products in it. Any pre-made henna paste you can buy from any shop that lasts for days or months and you can keep in the fridge. It's not 100% natural. So this definitely has a lot of chemical stuff that can make it last longer, but for a natural one, it's gonna last for, as I said, 24 hours maximum. I see so for my experience, we always make the henna paste together with the guests, or if they are coming just to do the henna design or the henna tattoo, I prepare it in advance, a little bit before that makes sense.

AZDEAN: 26:14

 Now, let's say, you have somebody, but they don't really have enough time to sit with you and you do the henna for them. Can you just sell them the henna and they apply it when they get to their house, or can you show them how to do it?

SIHAM: 26:28

 Sure, well, let me explain about my experience. So now I'm offering different experiences. The standard one is to learn about the art of Moroccan henna. So after learning all about the art, the plant itself, the process of making, the tradition and the history, we learn how to make our own natural henna paste. And since they cannot buy it from me and bring it back home, they can buy the ingredients and make it their own back home.

AZDEAN: 26:59

 I see.

SIHAM: 27:00

 So people can learn all skills needed to make their own paste and be their own henna artist. So they even learn some techniques to apply it on the skin and get some tools to do that.

AZDEAN: 27:13

 Oh nice. And what type of material is the use when creating henna tattoos for your guests? Let's say you know they decided they're going to get this. Do you give them everything during the class, the first class, when you introduce them to the henna, the tradition, the culture, or do they have to buy those equipments themselves?

SIHAM: 27:31

 I always have extra tools and equipments available. If they want to get it from me, then I give them also some tips how to choose the best quality of powder and whatever.

AZDEAN: 27:42

 Nice.

SIHAM: 27:44

 Mostly in India, for example, henna artists use combs, something like a pen, but in Morocco it's very known that we use the syringe that a lot of people when they see they think it's like same syringe that the doctor use for medication, but it's not. This is a syringe, typically and especially for henna, that we use to make very fine lines, and it has needles with different measures that makes the thicknesses of the lines be different according to the design. So that's what I use.

AZDEAN: 28:19

 Oh, I see. So I just assumed that you get it at the pharmacy or somewhere. But where do you actually get those syringes?

SIHAM: 28:26

 They're available in the markets. In plastic, these are like the standard one for beginners. It's quite recommended. It's very easy to use. It's not expensive. You can buy in every store around the market in Marrakech or even in Morocco. The more professional syringes that I work with are glass syringes. They are heavy but they are definitely more practical because, as I said, they allow you to control the thicknesses of your lines, so with different needles as well as they are very soft from the top, so they are not going to hurt your finger if you're working all the day pushing and pushing. The plastic ones are good to learn on because they're easy and simple to use, but they're going to make your finger a bit tired faster than the glass ones do.

AZDEAN: 29:18

 Oh, wow, that makes sense, A lot of this information. I know henna, but the technicalities of it, everything that you have explained, most of it, is really new to me. So I know. Nowadays, especially in the US, and I know it's the same thing in different countries, people can YouTube learning about the process. May not even think about learning the process, but if I go on Amazon, I see the henna and I see that it's got the fingers, it's got the feet and I can just, you know, like a little sticker or whatever, into my hand, apply it and then a few minutes later I peel it off and then I have henna tattoos.

SIHAM: 29:50

 Wow. This is very smart People. When they don't have a opportunity to have a henna artist, or no time or whatever, they're going to use this even in Morocco. So I would just say the simply the difference is that to use a sticker, first of all it's a risk that if it's not a good quality and good glue to glue on the skin, if you lift by accident in free space, then the henna is going to get under and then it's going to be a mess. You ended up by dyeing your skin. Not having it to do this is first. Second risk is that these stickers are standard. So whatever the form and the shape and the size of your hand or food, you're going to have the same design that sometimes doesn't fit you and then it doesn't look very like personalized to your hand shape and size. Plus, of course, that the creation right. It's not like having an artist. I knew, sadly, that a couple of people have been meeting the wrong people, that they're calling them henna artists. I'm sorry that they also exist, but we have to be careful.

AZDEAN: 30:57

 Okay, I completely understand what you're saying and I asked this. I kind of veered off the subject, but I wanted to ask it because I see this happening quite a bit Now. Last season, season one, we talked about scams in Marrakesh. As I'm talking to Yerin Marrakesh right now, yerin, our office in Marrakesh, thank you. We talked about scams and one of the most popular scams is Hanata to scam in Jam El Fina, and I know sometimes that lady I called her, I remember I called her a ninja. You know she see you pass by, she will follow you, she will spray you with that syringe and then make you pay whatever. It is a dollar, two dollars afterwards. So can you tell us some of the most popular scams when it comes to Hanata? I know I have tons of stories to tell, but I want to hear it from an artist just like you.

SIHAM: 31:44

 You asked me about something that it made me feel very sad, mad and angry sometimes, because Hanata in Morocco is very amazing art that reflects a big, the huge heritage of Moroccan culture and tradition. So people like these examples, for example, in the square, they are just showing this art or producing this art in a way that just gives a very bad image about it for people that don't know about it. So that's what makes me feel very angry. I think, as a henna artist and as a host, I'm meeting hundreds of people every year. Tens of them would come to me with a very ugly tattoos on the hand that they got in the square and that they didn't even choose to have or even ask for. Wow, the same way you just talked about henna artists. Some of them are women, some of them are men. This may be that you also don't know. Some of them are men. They're all actually hiding their faces, so you never know their faces or their sex right.

AZDEAN: 32:52

 Oh wow, I had no idea there is men too.

SIHAM: 32:56

 Most of them are not artists. They're just doing whatever, asking about money, overpriced, sometimes even dangerous products. They're not using henna. I spoke already about the process of henna pasting. We cannot easily make a henna paste in the square. It's a process. So they're using a pre-made henna for people in different colors, including black, whatever brown or whatever color is, which is definitely not henna, it's painting. Some of it is good quality, but if we're talking about getting tattoo in the street, we never expect using a good quality product. So please be careful.

AZDEAN: 33:35

 Yeah, I totally agree, because I've seen some cases that are really really terrible in terms of hands being infected, in terms of blisters in fingers, and it's really painful. So I definitely am going to we're going to do another episode about scams.

SIHAM: 33:48

 The process of henna itself is not dangerous. It's not toxic. You will never get an allergy from nature henna Never. We're applying it for bricknet women. We're applying it for babies just born. New baby born Never had any reactions. So whenever you have an skin reaction, be sure that products was not henna or not only henna, because sometimes you're using henna with chemical products.

AZDEAN: 34:15

 Yeah. So the next question that I have for you, siham, is can you tell us some of your favorite stories about your guests? I know Ted, who's the producer. He just concluded his tour with his family to Morocco. I know one of his last stops before he went back to Portugal is you. He came to see you and we send you as many guests as we can and, by the way, they love you. They're extremely happy with you. Dr Patel, whether it's Rachel, everybody that we have sent you, they have left with a lot of memories that they cherish for the rest of their lives. You know, months ago we had an event we planned with you in Agafai Desert, with Dan and Sierra, and Dan and Sierra they have arranged in you that they are super busy. I cleaned up some pictures and I sent it to them, and we made a little video of that day and I sent it to them and he made such a huge difference. They were so thrilled and so happy. It was like. You know, we're just walking back in time and seeing these pictures and I know Ted traveled with his kids. This is his first time in Morocco. I know it's not going to be the last time he did the north side of Morocco. We'll talk about it and eventually he will come back and do the south. I was supposed to be there with him, but unfortunately I couldn't make it. So back to the question. Please tell us those stories.

SIHAM: 35:32

 Sure, sure. I would definitely start by your dear guest. Your guests are always a very special guest, thank, you, thank you. Very nice people that I will also never forget, whatever that we celebrate the henna in Agafai or in my house, as it happened with Ted and his lovely family the very cute two kids that at the beginning they were a bit nervous and they didn't know should they get it or not. They didn't know how it feels like. They were like a bit afraid and then, especially after seeing my syringe, they were a bit scared. I saw this in their eyes and then I keep, like you know, I will never touch your skin, it's just to make clients. But well, they try to understand but they never believe. So they asked their mom. It was so cute, but they asked their mom to go first, so they make sure it doesn't hurt. So this was very cute and then, when I just did their mom, this just started to get closer and observe the thing and then they started to love the design and then a few minutes later they started to like fight each other. Who's going next? So they are very quickly trusted and it was very, very cool. Oh yeah, we had a very good moment. We laughed a lot. It was very amazing. They are very, very good people. I got also some picture from his wife. Thanks so much for her. And speaking about the nice stories, the most cute one that I had one time a woman she's a British woman and she was pregnant and then she wanted to get some henna done on her belly. Yes, so we did a very beautiful design on her pregnant belly and then it was funny because a couple of minutes we had to stop because the baby was kicking out. Yes, so I was like, hey, what are you doing? Yeah, so this was from the funniest moment for me doing henna. And definitely I don't forget to talk about a couple of people. There are almost like four or five people that made their henna tattoos that they got from me permanently later back home, which was made me feel very special, especially the big designs of it. Maybe I can share with you some pictures. So I had this Portuguese woman that shared with me a very big design on the leg that I created on her using henna and then back home she loved it so much until she just decided to make it a permanent tattoo and then shared it with me in the Valentine's Day, which I said to her this is my best present in this day, because this makes me feel very special.

AZDEAN: 38:11

 Wow, that's really really amazing. That's really heartwarming.

SIHAM: 38:14

 It's like seeing your baby grow right. Yeah, of course.

AZDEAN: 38:19

 I want to talk a little bit about you. I've known you for about maybe two years and you're one of the first guests that we wanted to have on the podcast. I'm glad that it happened today. I'm very fortunate that. I'm very grateful. But also I know you're a very smart businesswoman and a lot of people when we talk about Morocco, one of the biggest surprises to them is the strength of Moroccan women when they visit our country, especially when you go to the cities and you see the women involvement in all sectors. Morocco is known for its strength of its women. A lot of people don't know that you are a very strong woman. You are a very good businesswoman and I do appreciate what you do for us as an entity. You're super talented and I'm saying this because I know you work and I have seen it and I have seen your creation and it's fascinating. It's very different and I love it. You know, as a business, this is what we do. We do business with people that are like us. We're not a big company. We're not going to grow big, we're going to stay the way we are. You know this is also what Daniel recommended and also Pablo in their episodes. I want to tell the listeners One of the things that we do when we have a guest, especially when we go to Agafa desert and we do a mini Moroccan wedding, and I love it personally because it puts the guest on a spot. He makes them feel things they normally would not feel. It's the whole experience the dress, the makeup, just like you did with Sierra. She loved it, rachel loved it, the tattoos you know in her hands and the Hannah was just. It was amazing. We had an app. She made me laugh so hard. It's unbelievable. So when you have guests, I know they're well, well taken care of and I really appreciate you always going above and beyond. Also, I was talking about the businesses that we support. You're a single mom, you support your family, you support your child, and we do the same thing with many of the freelancers that we work with. You know we work with Khalil. He's in Casablanca. He does our tools for the mask. He's blind, but his eyes are his brother. So when you pay your fees to hire him, you're supporting two families. So what is next for you as a business, siham, and how do you see yourself in terms of evolving in terms of your future? When it comes to Hanna Tatoo?

SIHAM: 40:42

 Beside improving, I want to make it a little bit bigger. So I'm really like a dream now about Hanna store cafe shop, you can call it however you want, but it could also be like a small school for Hanna, because there is no schools where you can learn the art of working Hanna in Morocco, in all Morocco you cannot find. So this is the idea, this is the project in my mind to create the first place. That could be a kind of a school where people can learn the art of Moroccan Hanna, including Moroccans, because, let's say also about Moroccan girls, if they would like to do it, they would also have to spend a lot of time trying by themselves and practicing home, right, yeah, yeah, it took like years from my life to figure it out just the best core systems of Hanna, right? So this is one of my first goals is to create something like that and definitely, maybe very soon also an association that can help tourists to choose and pick a good places and good Hanna artists, not at the square, because this is making me crazy. That's true, definitely true.

AZDEAN: 41:51

 So, besides Hanna, the same question. But instead of Hanna, what else that you're thinking of? Besides Hanna? I know you do other activities. You know I spoke about the minimum Moroccan weddings and I would absolutely recommend them to anybody. I love that experience.

SIHAM: 42:05

 You know, I love meeting people and introducing them to my local culture including, of course, hanna, but away from Hanna, I love traveling and having fun with people. So I'm definitely programming and preparing myself to be a tour leader, maybe very soon. I'm not doing that to earn, because I can earn enough from other stuff, but this is something that I love and I feel like I can give, and I'm already giving, I'm already doing that. So I'm feeling like this is going to be a very important step in my life and I'm feeling also that we're missing good guides, especially female. So I'm ready to be.

AZDEAN: 42:43

 I totally agree. You have our support, you know. So, whatever you do, we're behind you.

SIHAM: 42:49

 Oh, thank you so much. It's going to be a pleasure for me to work for a destination of Morocco, definitely.

AZDEAN: 42:55

 Thank you, thank you.

SIHAM: 42:57

 As a tour guide. We say the Hanna artist.

AZDEAN: 43:00

 Like I'm tattooing your hand. At the same time I'm showing you because of one.

SIHAM: 43:04

 You're going to have a tour guide that can tattoo you. So yeah, whatever, even in the car, you can get your Hanna tattoo done.

AZDEAN: 43:14

 Yeah, that's incredible. So, yeah, the episode has been fun. Before we finish, the episode to the audience, something they need to know, they need to be aware of, and so forth.

SIHAM: 43:25

 I think that we miss to talk about the natural color or Hanna color. We talked about Hanna. A lot of people think that the Hanna that we get the pace we keep on our hands. No, the pace we get on our hands. So we're going to keep for only a few minutes until our skin absorb the color in it we remove, and then the natural color of Hanna is orange, so the first color we're going to get is light orange that turns to brown color in one to two other days. So the brown color is going to be dependent on the Hanna quality of your skin type as well. Okay, as you see here, I have like a darker color, so my Hanna is getting super brown. But for some other people, especially if they have it like soft skin, it's going to be less dark than mine.

AZDEAN: 44:11

 I'm just looking at your Hanna. I want to make a guess Is the Hanna three days old?

SIHAM: 44:16

 Yeah, this is three days.

AZDEAN: 44:17

 Three days? Okay, I still got it yeah because I could tell the color yeah. Then after that it starts to fade.

SIHAM: 44:25

 It starts to fade yeah, so it starts light, gets darker and then again less, less dark. The important thing is how to take care of your Hanna. Whatever you had it, you avoid to wash and especially scrub so much on your hands while washing it. You use so much soap. This is always going to take it or remove it the way very fast, so you avoid doing that, of course, immediately when you just remove your Hanna paste, don't wash it immediately with water, and this is a big mistake. A lot of people do so. We in Morocco mostly do the Hanna in the evening time and then remove it, sleep with no washing it.

AZDEAN: 45:03

 Oh, I see.

SIHAM: 45:04

 Okay, so overnight we don't wash with water to get the best color. And then the last advice it's please, please, please, don't do Hanna in the square. It's not the best place. It's not the best place for an artist to be and to get your first Hanna experience.

AZDEAN: 45:20

 yeah, Really good advice. So this is the end of our episode with Siham Issaheri. It's been fun, siham. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

SIHAM: 45:31

 It was really a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you.

AZDEAN: 45:37

 Thanks for joining us this week on the Destination Morocco podcast. Our dedicated show website, destinationmoroccopodcastcom is where you can find all of our episodes, leave a review, find our social media links and even register as a guest. If you have been to Morocco yourself and would love to share a story, advice or recommendations, you're welcome to participate in our podcast. Whether it's a five minute story or a full conversation, we will guide you through the steps so that you can share your experience with our listeners. We will be back soon enough with a new episode for you as we continue our exploration of the beautiful country of Morocco. See you then.