Family Travel with Young Kids in Morocco

Families are frequent guests on Destination Morocco tours, and we have been keen to shine a light on that experience here on the podcast, and the particular advantages and challenges therein.

And what better opportunity to do so than the one we had in February of this year! If you remember back to our episode of January 1st, 2023, Azdean and Ted, the producer of Destination Morocco podcast, mentioned that there was a possiblity of Ted and his family actually going to Morocco in the near future. 

The key was to factor in the needs and interests of the kids. At 5 and 7 years old, Ted and his wife Emilie's kids are certainly in the younger range of guests. Everything from safety, health and cleanliness, crowds and motorbikes, long-distance driving, meals, activities, restrooms, walking tours and more had to be seen through their eyes. This is what makes family travel different from your standard tour for adults.

Here today to tell the story and provide an overview of the experience is Ted himself, joining Azdean to chat about their wonderful tour. They discuss logistics, timing, accommodation, planning and the mentality you need to approach family travel to Morocco. It's a stunning and unique country, but it can be intense too: 

• How did the kids handle the crowds, the noise, the traffic, the food? 
• Would the family have been able to go by themselves, even as experienced travellers? 
• And how was the tour able to adapt and be spontaneous as energy levels, hunger and bathroom needs evolved?

If you are considering heading to Morocco with your young kids, or have already booked your tickets, tune in to this episode for a great overview of information and inspiration!

Resources Mentioned in this episode:

Episode: Live and Immersive Walking Tour of Essaouira

Episode: Exploring the South of Morocco, with Driss

Episode: Exciting Plans for the Podcast in 2023, with Ted

Ted Cragg Podcasting

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Transcript

TED: 0:43

 We know now as parents, traveling this is the whole travel experience has been quite new for us as parents. We've never traveled as a family before, so whether it's in Portugal and Morocco or France or anywhere else, it's all been quite new and a big adjustment has been, in a sense, kind of letting go of your expectations or the mentality that you have as adults, as couples without kids, because then you know you can move a lot faster, you can see a lot more stuff, you can change things to the drop of hat. If you have somewhere you got to be, you know you can leave maybe ten minutes before and you'll be fine, and you wouldn't do that with kids and so it's all this kind of thinking ahead and that's reflected in the itinerary and how you really set up the tour in the first place, but also your own expectations.

AZDEAN: 1:31

 Welcome to the destination Morocco podcast, the show that takes you way to the beautiful country of Morocco. I am your host as a dean at a most a Kim. In Each episode, we explore Moroccan culture, history, attractions and activities real and practical information coming from experienced travelers and native Moroccans like myself. Our goal is to help travelers that are struggling with planning any type of trip to Morocco. Our company, destination Morocco, builds personalized your packages that will ensure you enjoy our country just like local. Follow us at destination Morocco. co. And now let's go exploring. 

Welcome back to destination Morocco podcast. In this episode we have Ted Cragg, the producer of the show, and we're very delighted to have him on this episode because he just made a stop With his family to visit Morocco and he's here to share that with us. Ted, welcome back to the podcast.

TED: 2:49

 It's great to be back. I have a very good reason for being here this time, so I'm excited to talk about our trip.

AZDEAN: 2:55

 Oh, I have a lot of questions for you, and I'm very glad that he had the opportunity to go. So I know we work together and we have been for quite some time, and for me this is really an important step in many ways for you, ted, because we wanted to experience the culture, the country, the people, the staff, and also to experience what the guests go through. Can you tell us a little bit more into details the reasoning behind your trip, please? Sure, ted?

TED: 3:23

 Well, I'm talking to you now from Portugal. Listeners might know I'm from Canada, but my wife and our two young kids, we've spent three months in total traveling, most of which was in Portugal, and you knew that we were coming here. Like you know, we were chatting about it, how I would be here and then, well, is a pretty logical step to go from Portugal, of course, over to Morocco, if it was Possible, if it was feasible. So once we were here in January, I looked into it finally in detail and we found some flights. There's a lot of logistics, of course we can get into, which is fun. I love doing travel planning and research and stuff. One of the big questions was where should we go to? Should we fly from Lisbon to, like, marrakesh, to Fez or Casablanca or Tangier, even maybe somewhere else? It was interesting because from Lisbon there weren't a lot of direct flights aside to Casablanca, or also there have been long stopovers and you know two or three stops and all the rest to go to Marrakesh and Fez. So in the end, we flew from Lisbon straight to Casablanca and then had a return trip from there. So, yeah, you know it really stemmed from, of course, the opportunity to go. It's just such an amazing chance to go and see the things that I've been hearing about and this is where I really step into the listener mode. You know if the people who've been listening to this show and enjoying what we've been putting together, as they also have been learning about all these places, kind of piecing it all together, where the everything is, you know where exactly is Fez and where is Marrakesh and how do they all relate to each other and Chef Shaolin and all these other places to a Sawera and I've been part of that journey too. So to actually go and then see it with our own eyes and experience it and the sights, the smells and everything it was, it was amazing to actually go.

AZDEAN: 5:04

 I'm so glad to hear that Ted and you can just touch base just the cities, because After this episode we're gonna do a mini series that we're gonna go through a little bit of more details, but your journey with your family in Morocco in terms of what to do with the kids, what's the pack for the kids, what to eat and stuff like that, so can you just give us a little bit of the item? We said you landed in Kazablanca, so which way did you go from Kazablanca?

TED: 5:28

 Right. So, and this is key to what you and I talked about before we committed to going and I pointed out to you that you know, because we do have young kids. They're five and seven years old, they're amazing travelers, but still we know them, we know ourselves. We couldn't push ourselves to the extent that a lot of irregular guests do, who, of course, are adults, they're couples and they Don't mind driving necessarily eight or ten hours a day and doing a whole bunch of things in one day. And, as I pointed out to you, obviously we want to see as much as we can, but we have to pace ourselves and that means well, maybe we see one or two things a day instead of five or six. You know we need to schedule some break times and Bathroom breaks and just rest days for sure, which is a big point to. Originally I thought of going for seven or eight days. In the end we booked it for ten days. Those extra couple days really made a difference because we could just slow things down a little bit and then that in turn shaped our itinerary. So, yes, we flew to Casablanca first, we had a night there, the next day we drove straight up to chef's shower and, of course, towards the northeast. We had two nights there and then we headed from there down to Fez. We had three nights in Fez. From there we had the longest drive of the trip. We drove through Rabat and we saw some of Rabat, and then south to the Agafai desert, so just outside of Marrakesh, and we had a wonderful night there. And then we had another three nights in Marrakesh and that brought us to the end of our trip. So a lot of people again I've heard, you know, coming on the show talking about their tours. They may have even more stops and they do more driving. You could go out to like Merzuga and other parts of the southeast of the country. We did go to Essoira I should add that in on our final full day. It was just a day trip, we didn't spend overnight. It was wonderful to see Essoira, so that was part of it too. But this is really what shaped our itinerary was a bit of a balance of well. Obviously we need to do some driving and get from A to B, but try to take some longer stops in between when we're doing so.

AZDEAN: 7:19

 I'm glad that we did it the way that you have suggested, because I understand with the kids, because last time, which is five years ago, when I went, emron got sick because the drive from the desert to Fass it took a long, long time. He's a really good traveler as well, but when we got to Fass, you know, with the air conditioning and the weather change, he got sick. So we had to cut our tour short. So this is really, really important. You have to plan it the right way, otherwise it will affect the rest of your tour and you don't want to do that for sure. So tell us a little bit of the highlights about your trip and also talk to us a little bit of safety, especially with the kids. How did the kids feel with the locals, with the culture, with everything else?

TED: 7:59

 Well highlights. We certainly thought a lot about that during the trip and, you know, in the days since we've only been back for a couple of weeks, so it's still very, very fresh in our mind since we left Morocco. We love Shoshan, we love the size, the scale of it, which is quite small of course. It's like this little mountain town, kind of perched on the side of these steep hills, very easy to walk around and see the whole thing and get up to the Spanish mosque and look over the city. Hugo Orsani is five years old. He's developed an addiction to the color blue. So this was Hugo's town. And he has a blue jacket, he has a blue hat and like blue pants, like blue is his color, even has blue shoes actually. So we have great pictures of him standing in front of these blue walls where he practically like blends right in. So, and that's the thing, you know, it's a little things like that that frat out. It's about the blue, it's nice, it's beautiful, but for kids that's the stuff that really stands out. It just, you know they'll remember things like that and we get the pictures, of course, and the enjoyment of them enjoying it. So those are the little things I really look out for on trips like this. So we really like Chef Chao and just this eyes the scale of it. Then, of course, we went to Fez. Fez is just an absolute buzz of activity, especially in the Medina. I mean, it's true, it's an absolute maze and we have. The way we got the kids to enjoy it and understand it was that they called it a maze. They said we're going through the maze, we're going to go exploring the maze, and they loved it. Once they kind of got their heads around that, because otherwise it could be a little intimidating. For sure there's lots and lots of activity. There's some pretty narrow confines. So we talked about safety. We felt very safe. We had our guide there, layla. She was wonderful and she really was great with the kids and showing them around and keeping them safe. The locals could see that we were on a guided tour so they kind of kept their distance. They knew that we had a chaperone. So once we kind of settled into that rhythm then we could explore and enjoy the Medina in Fez as we'd like to, which was basically to take our time, check out some sites, not feel too rushed, and we had a whole day to really wander through, so that was really nice. So yeah, fez, that's pretty intense. I mean very glad we saw it Again. We talked about the itinerary. We had that full day. We had a full rest day in Fez and that's where we could just basically stay. At the Riyadh, we had a beautiful Riyadh, right in the Medina, looking out over all the rooftops of the Medina, of the houses nearby, so you could kind of absorb the feel of it and get a good sense of it without being right in the thick of it. We were looking down on the Medina, so that was kind of nice. We did go for a quick walk just on our own through a few of the alleyways. About 30, 40 minutes of that was enough with the kids. It was pretty intense, but I'm glad we did it. We really wanted to experience a bit of that independence too and just kind of feeling our way through it as well. So yeah, very glad we saw Fez and experienced that. It was a nice change of pace to go from there first to Rabat, which is a much different city. It's a stately city. There's big boulevards, parks, squares, the whole deal. It's right in the ocean, beautiful views of the ocean. So that was a nice change of pace. It was only a couple hours that we spent there, but I'm really glad that we saw it. Back to the highlights, though. Probably the biggest highlight for all of us was the desert. To really have that time, to spend overnight in the camp Such a different world from being in Fez for the previous three days in the hustle and bustle. Right and you're out in the desert and now it's quiet and we were lucky. It was a pretty clear night. We could see some stars, we got a nice sunset and the sunrise the next morning. We saw the camels going past and the four-wheelers and all the various activities. We didn't do any of that. We got there around I think it was 5.36 in the evening and it had been a long day of driving, of course, so we were happy to just kind of stay put and relax. They actually had a swimming pool at this camp in the desert and, believe it or not, we all jumped in Even though it wasn't terribly warm but it was refreshing. I'm glad we did, because it was really nice water and you're swimming in the middle of the desert, it's crazy. So between all that and they had some musicians there playing the local music and a nice dinner with tagines, and just the pace of that and the feel of being really out in nature in the desert was amazing. So I'm really glad that we did that. Talking about the trip, it's kind of in sections or stations, so you know whether it's Chef Shao'en, fes, the desert and the Marrakesh and we really like Marrakesh. I have to say I wasn't sure what to expect. It was not quite as intense maybe as Fes and I think the reason is because you have the square. Things are more wide open, there's certainly a Medina and there's a few narrow alleyways, but it's not quite as compact and as intense as Fes. You have the motorbikes and I've heard a lot of those stories and they were true. You really have to jump out of the way of these motorbikes. The kids got used to it. You hear them coming and we told guys, move over, move over, stay over to the side. And they would. But it was a little more manageable maybe in Marrakesh because it is a bit more open and you know the squares nearby. You kind of get a bit of that space and somewhat fresh air just being out there. It's a close tie though between the desert and Esawira. Esawira I'm really, really was glad that we went there. I think Emily and I both agreed that my wife that if we'd had more time and even if the tour had ended, if we were, say, we were staying in Morocco for another week or something like that, we probably would have stayed in Esawira for most of that time. It was just such a beautiful town right on the ocean, different feel, and the locals there really pointed that out. This is not the usual hustle and bustle of Fes. It's quite design. It really is quite different. It's much more relaxed, laid back vibe. There is the Medina there, but it's not nearly as intense and noisy and busy, just the feel of it. It was a really nice contrast being in Esawira Even just for a few hours. We drove in in the morning. We had a couple stops on the way. We had an afternoon tour and then head back, but we're really glad we saw it.

AZDEAN: 13:39

 Just listening to you and listening to a lot of the guests people before they planned their trip to Morocco. All while they're in that process they go through a lot of stages. This really, really helps because they get to a point they think they know everything. Then they keep researching. They get to another point where it's like I'm lost. I don't know what I'm doing. To plan a trip to Morocco. It's really not an easy task. It's very complex. There's a lot of moving parts, especially behind the scene, and things that we have to do on a daily basis that you may not even be aware of. I know you travel quite a bit, in this case for Morocco. I know you said you're kind of backpacking. Did you get a chance to get any gifts and what type of gifts did you get? Or souvenirs, and how did you handle them? Did you take them with you, did you ship them out and stuff like that?

TED: 14:26

 Yes, that's a very good question. We are backpacking as a family here in Portugal. We carry everything in our backs. The kids have little backpacks which mostly has their books and games, but change the clothes too. We're used to carrying everything. We knew, of course, that we would have the van, and a shout out to Abdur-I-Him Abdur, who was our driver. He was wonderful, very, very gracious, very helpful. We knew we'd have a van and therefore, if we bought anything, well, at least we could keep it in the van over the course of the 10 days we were there. There's no way we had room to bring anything more than tiny little things in our backpacks to get back home. It didn't take long for us to buy something. We went all in. We bought some carpets in Chef Chao. These are lifetime gifts. We went to this rug store right in Chef Chao Inn, which was very well known. It was a great reputation. They invite you in and they give you mint tea and they show you the loom and how they make the rugs and shawls and blankets and things like that, then show you a bunch of different samples. We knew we wanted one, so it was going to come down to bargaining, for sure, and the negotiation. But we bought a few things. We were happy with the price. The question is how do we get it home, because these are way too big. Of course we would never be able to carry them. Unfortunately, we had the van. They did offer to ship from there. We figured well, we'll probably get some more stuff before the end of this trip, so maybe we'll wait till the end and ship it all at once. That's what we did. We haven't mentioned Dris yet. Dris was our guide. He was on episode 28.

AZDEAN: 15:54

 28,.

TED: 15:55

 yes, I'm looking at, yeah, he was our guide, tour guide, for the entire time. So essentially every day it was Emily and me and Hugo and Dalia, and then Dris is our guide and Abdul is driving. That was the six of us traveling around Morocco together. So Dris was wonderful. He would tell us where to go and good advice, of course, of things to eat and where you want to buy stuff. I really appreciate what he did. He saw that I was interested in a Jaleba, which is the winter shawl sweater type thing with a hood. You see a lot of people wearing them. They go down past your waist. They're really warm and comfortable. I've heard Chantale and other guests in this show talk about them. Once I saw them in person I knew, yeah, I love one of those. It'd be great back home in Quebec in the winter. This was another thing to carry and I didn't know how much it cost to where to go. We kind of left it at that because we were distracted by going to get these rugs. Well, the next morning we were packing up, ready to leave Chef Chao and Dris comes over. He's like I bought you a Jaleba. It was really, really nice, oh nice. We had that to send home and then we picked up a few more things. We got some argan oil, of course, and a soirea. We got some wood carvings there too, and some pottery also. That's right, we got some pottery. I think that was in Fez In the end, what we did, again thanks to the van. This is what comes back to having a tour like yours, where you have that flexibility. You tell your guide and your driver well, we need to go to find a place to ship this home. Okay, we'll go find it. They usually know where to go anyway, but they'll take it to a place. We went to DHL. That's a popular one. Process is very straightforward you just need your passport and address and they'll give you a tracking number and you're all set. So, and it's home. I mean, it made it to Quebec and Canada within a week from Marrakesh, so that's pretty good, wow.

AZDEAN: 17:34

 Amazing. Tell us a little bit something, ted, that happened to you during your trip, which is this is one of them that you have just mentioned about Dris, the tour leader. Something unexpected happened, something, an experience that really went above and beyond what you have expected.

TED: 17:51

 I feel like the whole trip was largely like that. Thank you. I mean you know, and I have to say too, this was the first time that we've been on certainly a private tour. I've done a few guided kind of group tours, although even then not really for many multiple days. It was a different experience for sure. We're used to being independent travelers. You know doing everything. We plan our stops, how we get from A to B, where we're going to stay, finding food, so we certainly appreciated being with you guys and that we didn't have to think about any of that. It wasn't adjustment, though and anyone who's listening I remember Pablo talking about this and others it's an adjustment If you're used to doing everything yourself and now suddenly it's liberating. You don't have to figure it all out, but you also really do have to rely on the suggestions of your guide that they're going to take you to the good places and you just kind of go with the flow. So it was a bit of an adjustment. It was fine. It was just a different way of traveling that we weren't quite used to. So as we went along the way, you know whether it was finding great restaurants or places to shop a highlight for sure was the Hanna at the end it was great having our episode. They recently would see him and it wasn't just the Hanna, though I mean. That was cool and that was one of the things we really wanted to do. It was the welcome. I think that's what surprised me the most. I didn't expect to go into her house, I certainly did not expect for her to cook us dinner. I didn't expect to meet her daughter and who was really outgoing and chatty and told us a bit about her life. I think she's 16 years old and just have a local experience with somebody from there where you just really see, kind of behind the curtain, into what life is like, what the house is like and the food that they eat, which is similar to the restaurant. But it was a Friday, so it was couscous day. That was great timing, couscous, yeah. But you know, I think the we were surprised just the extent of that experience. It was much more than just Hanna. It was so much more. He was learning about Hanna, the history of it. The kids had fun choosing their design, as she talked about in the episode we did with her. The kids took a bit of time to kind of warm up and feel comfortable, but when they saw how it worked and she was very welcoming and made it a nice, comfortable space. Then they jumped right in and they couldn't wait, so things like that. That wasn't our last day. The next day was when we went to Essoira, but it was one of the last things we did and it was a nice way to kind of, you know, wrap up towards the end of the trip and it yeah.

AZDEAN: 20:03

 Any advice to families that are planning their trip with the kids to Morocco. What type of advice would you give to a family that is planning, please?

TED: 20:12

 Well, it really starts with the key thing, which is giving yourself enough time. And if that means you'll have seven days and that's your limit you don't have more time than that then really think about just how much you can see. We know now, as parents traveling, the whole travel experience has been quite new for us as parents. We've never traveled as a family before, so whether it's in Portugal or Morocco or France or anywhere else, it's all been quite new. And a big adjustment has been, in a sense, kind of letting go of your expectations, with the mentality that you have as adults, as couples without kids, because then you can move a lot faster, you can see a lot more stuff, you can change things to the drop of a hat. If you have somewhere you've got to be, you know you can leave maybe 10 minutes before and you'll be fine. You wouldn't do that with kids. So it's all this kind of thinking ahead and that's reflected in the itinerary and how you really set up the tour in the first place, but also your own expectations. If you only had seven days, then well, maybe you'd go to see Fez and Marrakesh and maybe they tripped as Swir, but that might be it, you know, that's just how you have to adapt as parents traveling with young kids. Now, if you were traveling with like teenagers, maybe 14, 15 years old or more, that should be different. But if you're talking like 12, 10 years old and younger, like in our case, it really does impact how you set it up in the first place. So there's that, and then within each day it's really pacing ourselves. One thing I did say to Dris and some of our other tour guides they were all very good and, of course, very thorough. Lots of information in turn. It's for them because they have to adapt their tour at least they should when there's young kids going along as well. So there were times when I told the guides you know, we need to take a break, we need to get some food, we need to find a bathroom, whatever it is, and that's stuff that may not happen often on the regular tours, you know. So everyone kind of has to work together to make it work for everybody. You're not completely dictated by the needs of your kids, but you have to absolutely factor in what the experience is like for them, because if you push them too hard, they're just going to run out of steam and you know they could be breakdowns, they could be grumpy, they could be tired. That could then trickle over to like the next day and on from there. So it really does come back to setting your expectations. I mean, I think that goes with anything, any kind of travel you could do, anywhere really, but certainly in a place like Morocco, where you're there as a guided tour, it's great to have that protection, to have people chaperoning and just keep anything safe for you. It's really a good way to do it, especially if it's your first time. We would not have gone if it hadn't been for your tour. We would not have gone on our own, not with our kids, this young especially. Having that tour really made it possible, just from a safety perspective health and safety that you know. We felt absolutely, of course, in great hands and that we didn't have to worry about that health and safety side of things, that it was going to be a safe and stable tour, let's call it so. That's the benefit of going with a tour company, of course, and you guys are the best. I mean, you really show how it's done. So, yeah, it really comes back to expectations. I think that's the number one thing for any parent to think about if they're planning a tour to a place like Morocco.

AZDEAN: 23:14

 I completely agree that we're going to be going in this summer. And one thing that you have mentioned you got to do everything on your kids terms and that's really, really, really important. So we're doing the same thing with Emran. I'm asking him where he want to go, what he want to see. Mersuga is a big thing for him. So he definitely wants to go to Mersuga. He wants to do the south tour of Morocco. So we're going to do the south and I totally agree, you have to pace, you have to do it slowly and communicate to your tour leader, communicate to your local guides. So instead of, like you said, doing five things today in Marrakesh, let's just do two and give some time to the kids to enjoy the environment, the city and do other stuff. So that's really, really, really important.

TED: 23:53

 Yeah, yeah, it makes all the difference.

AZDEAN: 23:54

 Oh for sure, yes, and that's going to take me to my next question. What was your overall experience of Morocco in terms of the culture and the people? How did you feel.

TED: 24:06

 Well, it was a very welcoming country. I've learned so much and heard so much about the hospitality of Moroccans and Berbers really in particular listening to this show, so I kind of had a sense of what to expect. But wow, yeah, people are just very welcoming, they open their doors to see how they're really just stand out. Because ideally I would have liked to have had more kind of local interactions. Now I can accept it, because in each of our tour we did want to see a fair bit, we did keep moving and we had to pace ourselves and all that the type of thing. If we had had more time then, yeah, maybe it would have been great to get out to some of the villages or just kind of off the tourist path a bit and really get to know some of the locals. But at least we met her and we met a couple other. Just the real owners were always really nice and friendly. So that was real pleasure, just to meet the people, to get to learn about the country and experience firsthand. That's really what we're there for. I was surprised also with the landscape. It was a lot more green than I expected in a lot of places when you drive from like basically from Rabat up towards Chef Shao and like there's a lot of green and rolling hills. I was surprised that it was that lush and vegetation and so on. So it's not all rocky, dry mountains and dusty landscapes by any means. There's really quite a lot of variety. It's really neat to see and different kinds of mountains and a really nice highlight on the way back from Esuira. It was a fairly nice day the whole day but the clouds really cleared later in the day and when you drive back to Marrakesh you see the Hayatlas Mountains off in the distance. They're not really that far away, but you can. You can see them quite clearly like way back across some fields with snow at the top, and that was really really neat just to get a sense of what's actually out there. You know that's cool.

AZDEAN: 25:47

 You know you're saying this and I remember going to the mountains back in 2012 and I had the same experience. I was in the village, we went to bed it's not overnight and I looked at it and that was the first time for me that I've seen snow in my village, in Llewet. It was an incredible, amazing experience. I'll never forget it. So you definitely need to do the south side, yeah, the south, yeah for sure. You definitely have to come back. And, by the way, for the listeners, I was supposed to meet Ted in Morocco, but unfortunately it didn't happen. I would like for it to happen one day. Maybe we can plan it and meet. So, because there's so much stuff we can do together in.

TED: 26:21

 Morocco. It's just it's incredible. Well, I have to say too, it was kind of fun for me, like seeing it at least a bit as a working trip, because once we got to Marrakesh well I should say even the whole trip I was talking a lot with Adreus about podcasting, about the show, because he's going to come back on the show. We talk about ideas and technique and stuff, but especially getting to Marrakesh and getting to see your office, getting some of the setup there, the audio quality, and you got some equipment coming in, it's nice to feel part of the team and a bit behind the scenes and feel like we're really building something here that's going to be fun and interesting and unique. I don't see anybody else doing it, so I really hope that we're opening doors to podcasting in Morocco. as much as anything, it's getting the locals to get that experience, to be able now to go into your office, your studio, basically in Marrakesh, to record, and then you'll have the equipment to go out and take it to them, but to give them that exposure, because people haven't really had it. But this is the way to do it. So it was really really fun to be part of that, to meet Sam, to meet Hussein and everyone else in the office. It was really, really fun, thank you.

AZDEAN: 27:24

 Thank you. They loved you. My God, I mean it was just, oh my God, everybody's talking about that and everybody's calling and texting. Oh my God, they did this, they did that. He showed us. So it was a lot of fun for them. We definitely appreciate it because Hiba is going to be doing the podcast with me when we do the series with DRIS, but the southern part of Morocco she's going to be a co-host and then she's probably going to be hosting some episodes on her own. So on the trip when I go to Morocco, it's going to be, you know, just like you, ted. I mean I'm working and it's going to be working. We're talking about how we can elevate the guest experience, the things that we do for the client. There are a few things that we're going to be implementing from the moment you arrive to Morocco for your first day, second day, third day, until you leave Morocco. This is an addition to everything that we're doing already and there's no additional cost to the guest. We're going to be a lot more involved and a lot more technical.

TED: 28:18

 You know, I really appreciated the logistics, even just kind of the little things, but they really stand out. You have Wi-Fi in the car. I didn't. You had told me that, but I wasn't sure if it was really going to work or be strong. It was amazing. It was so fast and that meant that really made a difference, because I mean, we had our smartphones right, but we didn't have SIM cards or anything in Morocco. So it allowed us to obviously stay in touch and communicate with Dres and so on, coordinate pick up times and all these things, do some research too. So yeah, that was a little thing that really really helped the traveler. Just a logistical thing, not to mention getting the car as close to the reality as possible. Often you have to walk because of course it's a Medina, it's a pedestrian, but the driver would know where to go and how to get as close as you can. So it's a fairly short walk and then even just being able to leave some of your stuff in the van, I mean it's going to be safe. So maybe we just pack an overnight bag kind of thing, like just having those little logistics that you may not think about otherwise until you really write in the thick of it and you're figuring out how we're going to get from A to B. What do we need to do to prepare and get us and ourselves and our stuff there? And it really does come together when you're on a tour like this.

AZDEAN: 29:26

 Thank you, thank you. I really, really appreciate it and I totally agree, and these are the things that a lot of people don't think about when they are planning the tour and they're in the process. They're a little bit more focused on the price versus the experience. We're not a price based company. We are an experience based company and you can't really put a price tag on it. I mean, if you ask any of the guests that have traveled with us, how much did you pay for this? They will all say the same thing I have no idea, but that's a trip that I will never forget. I swear to you, ted. So what I'm telling people when they're planning their trip again, there are thousands ways to experience Morocco. We specialize in one of them Experience, experience of a lifetime. That's nice. So yeah, would you recommend Morocco as a travel destination for families?

TED: 30:11

 I would recommend it if you have young kids, if you do it with a guided tour. I really really learned that, like we said a bit earlier, we wouldn't have done it on our own. We travel comfortably independently, doing our own planning here in Portugal, in Morocco. I really would have felt quite overwhelmed and intimidated doing that just on our own. So we had the opportunity, of course, to go and it really made all the difference and it may come down to that Either you go or you don't. If you go, it's going to be with a guided tour, a private tour, some kind of structure like that, and that's what's going to allow you to go and really enjoy it, of course, to make the most of it and to iron out a lot of the challenges and just figuring out how to get around, how to navigate. I tell you, it can be pretty intense when you're in those Medinas and there's people chasing after you, trying to get you to buy stuff come with me to my store and all this kind of stuff and they see that you're travelers. It is pretty intimidating. Now I do believe for sure, if we spend enough time there, if we spent like a couple of weeks in Fez and just slowly kind of a climatized, and made our way newer to go, start to feel, behave a little bit more like a local. Maybe you don't stand out quite as much well, that would help. But we didn't have that kind of time and it's still. It's quite, it can be quite overwhelming. So to really do it, if you have the chance to go and you have the young kids, it just makes all the difference to go in a safe and comfortable way with a guide or tour. Besides that, morocco itself, I mean it really is stunning the difference of the landscapes, the culture, the food we haven't even talked about food yet and then all kinds of activities you can do. So, yeah, it's kind of this like mythical destination that's becoming more and more popular. You hear lots of people going and it's this mix of very much a modern country with all kinds of very ancient historic sites and influence and cultural traditions that go back hundreds, thousands of years even. It's a wonderful blend of the two.

AZDEAN: 32:07

 Yeah, thank you for that, Ted. Really appreciated what else you want to add. Any questions that I should have asked you? Maybe I didn't.

TED: 32:14

 One thing that was a little tricky was navigating, getting change, getting small coins. Ah, have you run into this before? I don't know if we've talked about it, but we did talk about it in the scam episode.

AZDEAN: 32:26

 And here's the thing, the small change the coins are more important than the paper, If you ask me.

TED: 32:32

 That makes perfect sense because you get there, you go to a bank machine. That's easy, they're safe and they're reliable and all that, and you withdraw 500 Durham, 2000 Durham, which is roughly $200 US, and that in itself will take you pretty far because you can also use credit cards quite a bit, especially restaurants, things like that. And don't forget, on a guided tour, so much has already been paid for, it's already included. You don't have to be spending money every day for your accommodation and your transport and all this other stuff. So what do you spend money on? Well, lunch we buy our own lunch, either a credit card or cash and, of course, tips. And this is the thing it's like. Well, I'm happy to tip. I have no problem with that. There's someone that's taking my bag into the hotel or whatever else, but I don't have five dirhams. I don't have a 10 dirham coin. Driss was great I'm assuming the other guides do this in that, especially at the beginning, he would have basically a pocket full of change to help you out, because he knows you don't have any. You can only get it by buying something, hoping they give you the change, and then you hold onto it for dear life. The toilets are another thing. I mean you really can't go to toilet without giving a tip, even if it's just a couple of dirhams. So you know we have to be a little strategic and try to plan ahead and where we can go and if we have enough change, and sometimes you tip a bit more than you would like to, but that's the way to go. So my question is is that one of these things you're talking about kind of elevating the experience and some of the logistics and preparation Is that a type of thing where the guides can come prepared with like a little purse, a little something of change? I mean, you would give them, therefore, a 200 dirham bill. They give you 200 in change, and that would really make a difference to just navigating through all those little things that you end up needing a few dirhams for.

AZDEAN: 34:14

 That's really, really, really an amazing, amazing point. And question Okay, the currency exchange. I recommend doing it. Let's say, as an example, you're coming from DC, from New York. Do it at the airport in New York. I have that paper change with you. So when you get to Morocco, ask the tour leader hey, I have $20, which is 200 dirhams. Can I get this in change? That $20 in change in terms in coins, it's going to go far. That could last you the whole trip. You know tipping here and tipping here for a little bit of things that you get done. Now the other thing that we do and I'm glad that you mentioned it, when a tour leader is dispatched, there's a cultural difference. A lot of guests depending, let's say, from New Zealand, for example. In New Zealand they don't have a tip in culture. So when they come into Morocco, we make sure when somebody helps with the bag, the tour leader will tip. We don't charge anything extra. We give, let's say, a certain amount of money so they can spend. This is for whatever the guest needs. Let's say you go to FES. Somebody handles your luggage you tip them. Somebody helps you with the door with stuff you tip them. You go to, like you said, the rest we tip them. That's what we call cash bank for the tour leader. That's what it's for. So, just in case, if a guest is not familiar with our culture, they don't need to be. We take care of that for them, at no additional cost. So let's say, for example, you land in Kazablanca. This is one of the things that we're going to be implementing. We're going to have somebody going inside the airport, through the gates and pick you up as soon as you get out of the airplane. They're allowed to do that. Yes, I mean we pay, but again, everything does not cost the guest a penny. Talking about elevation of service, going that extra mile. So this is one of the things we do and we realize it's going to save us about an hour to an hour and a half in terms of the guest's time. You have a specific time in Morocco an hour and a half or an hour, if you see, save it a day. That's a lot of time. So they take you through customs. They bring you directly to the tour leader. We'll have somebody from inside pick you up, either a police officer or somebody else that have the credentials to go inside and get you through those customs and go through customs fast. So there's no waiting line in customs and you're interested You've seen the waiting line how big it can be and how slow those people are.

TED: 36:24

 Well, you know what happened. Tell me, we were lucky. We got off the plane and you go down the long hallway and around the corner and all this and into this big room where there's this winding snaking line to get up to the passport, the customs desk, and I think there may be two or three officers there processing like 150 people. So it was moving, but very slowly, and we were about a third of the way through and then this guy comes from a customs officer, kind of like a police officer. He comes from around the corner and looks at us. I'm thinking did we do something? No, he opens up the barrier, takes us around the corner to another special desk because we had the kids and processed us right away. That saved us 40 minutes. Now I knew it was because we had the kids right. So this be, if you had the chance to do that for all of your clients obviously if they're just adults that would really make a huge difference.

AZDEAN: 37:13

 The other thing is when you get to, let's say you go into, your first stop is Qazablanqa. At the hotel, we're gonna have a gift for you at the hotel. You move from Qazablanqa, you go into FAS, for example, we're gonna have a gift for you in the room in FAS Shifshawan, marrakesh, and so forth. It's just going above and beyond what's expected of us. And again, we're not perfect. We mess up, we make mistakes all the time. Things happen and when that happens, guess what? The guests? They know you have done everything you're supposed to. They understand these things happen, so they will forgive you easily. Yeah, that's a good point. Versus. You send them and you forget about them. You see what I'm saying?

TED: 37:50

 Yeah, I really like the feeling when Ranatour like this, and with Gris and Abdul too, we were lucky in a way because he speaks French. He didn't speak a lot of English but we could speak to him in French, so we were all kind of in this together, you know, planning together. There was some dialogue, there was some compromise, there was lots of communication and that really made us feel like we were at least part of the planning in the moment. You know, because you had to be a little spontaneous Maybe we'll go here instead of there and then we weren't just being told what to do, but we were part of making that decision. And I know that's the thing. I come from a background is very much an independent backpacker kind of travel, so that's why I talk about the adjustment to being on a guided tour. The thing that's a little intimidating, or put me off a bit by that, is simply that constantly being told what to do. So knowing that, especially with a private tour, maybe you're on a really small group tour but you have some chance to give that input and a tour like yours allows you to do that. The guys are open to it, they want that feedback. It's a bit of a two way street, so that you don't feel like you're just told where to go. You're really part of the decision. It really helps.

AZDEAN: 38:50

 That's really really important. What else?

TED: 38:52

 I want to tell you one thing before we wrap up. So when we were in Casablanca and we went to the mosque, of course, which is stunning Hassan's second mosque, and that may have been the kids highlight, I think I remember when we were getting back to the airport at the very end of the tour, like 11 days later, and Hugo said his favorite thing was the Hassan the second mosque, because it's all carpeted. You take off your shoes, of course, and the kids could run around and just have fun in the mosque, and they were allowed to do that. We were a little unsure at the very first Are they making too much noise? They weren't making a whole lot of noise, but are they allowed to do this? Yes, and it was fine. Someone said oh yes, in mosque we love having kids and they're welcome to play reasonably. So they had a wonderful time just running around in this carpet as we were waiting for the tour to start, and then the tour takes you through the main floor and then down underneath for the bathsar and so on, and it's an incredible structure. Of course, I had mentioned to Drist, though, that I would love to meet Khalil, the tour guide you've talked about Khalil. Yes, he didn't do that tour so I wasn't sure. But then after the tour we go back to the ticket office in this little museum and then just comes over. He's like I've got someone I'd like you to meet. So I met Khalil. It was wonderful. This is the picture. This is the guy I've heard so many people talk about and it was really really nice to meet him in person. Just for a couple of minutes we chatted. But yeah, when someone like Drist goes out of their way to do stuff like that, it's not going to happen otherwise.

AZDEAN: 40:20

 Thank you. Thank you. I'm so glad and, in terms of Khalil, we love him, we're very grateful for him. Him and I, we have spoken. When I get to Morocco, I want to do not just Kazablanca with him or the mosque, but I want to do a mini series with him as well, because his knowledge just extends beyond Kazablanca and Hassan II mosque. He's incredible. Yeah, that'd be great. I can't wait to do his episodes.

TED: 40:41

 Yeah, he's very well spoken. Like I'm thinking about it from an audio perspective, he speaks English. Well, he speaks English. Really, he's a great guest.

AZDEAN: 40:48

 Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, so it's going to be a lot of fun, yeah.

TED: 40:51

 That's cool. So, yeah, I took notes every day that we were there of thoughts and observations and things like that, largely from a family travel perspective how things might impact with your kids. You know the types of meals you can get in restaurants, how to navigate the menu, serving sizes, things like that, drinks for sure, and then, yeah, how to walk around, how to get through the busy crowds and the noise and so on, how to pace yourself on one of these walking tours and on from there. So a whole bunch of notes and I'm looking forward to doing a little mini series ourselves here. We get into some more of those details to help people do some planning but just really know what to expect. If you're going to go to Morocco with young kids Because it's very doable it helps to know as much as possible what to plan and just what to expect when you're there.

AZDEAN: 41:39

 And I really appreciate that, and because we're doing quite a bit of family travel as well. I mean, we're having one, I believe it, in May, which is almost the same age as your kids, so I would love for them to turn in to listen, because it's going to be just amazing.

TED: 41:52

 Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to that. And the last thing, too, is that when we were in Isawira, we did a walking tour of the Medina with Zaid Zaid Zaid yes, it was the local guide there and that was the one place I felt comfortable taking out my fairly expensive high quality digital recorder. I didn't really want to walk around with that in Fazz America and dress was clear, like make sure your pockets are empty, everything's inside your bags are sealed tight, all that kind of stuff. This is fine, that makes sense. If I wasn't going to walk around with this big $500 device, like you know, sticking out in front of me in Isawira, I could. Again, it speaks to the difference in Isawira. It was much more relaxed, it was comfortable, it was quieter, I had no problem. So we walked around with him for a couple hours and I recorded a whole bunch of parts of his tour little excerpts, as he's explaining this and that I'm going to put it together as an episode for Destination Morocco here, so you'll get not just the information but you'll hear us there live on this on site. You know you hear the seagulls in the background, the waves crashing, the music playing, the call to prayer, all these things. It's really really fun.

AZDEAN: 42:57

 That's incredible. When I go to Morocco, we're probably going to record the whole content for the whole season, probably 2024. We're going to do the South and also we're going to do the same as you did in the Southern. You're going to hear the background noise If it's the motorcycles and watercash, if it's the horses, if it's whatever it is. We're going to do them in coffee shops, we're going to do them in restaurants, hotels, maybe riyadhs. So we're setting everything up with Sam and Kate. I'm taking a photographer with me and a surprise we have a listener. She reached out, she wanted to go to Morocco, she wanted to do the South. The way she explained it to me, I know that can be dangerous for her, so I said come with me, we're going to be in a small group, we'll do the 10 days South tour of Morocco and then I can get you all the connections you needed to get for you to finish the rest of your tour. Because she only wants to do villages and she's interested in the Amazigh culture, which is the Berber culture. And what I would like to also mention is this is a project for us that we're going to launch 2024, which is home stays. So it's going to be just the native greedy of the South of Morocco, just like you said, the local experiences, everything it's going to be local. There's no riyadhs, there's no hotels, it's just, you know, back to the basics. Yes, in terms of cost, obviously it's a lot cheaper, but in terms of the experience, it is very rich, incredible In terms of the culture, the Berber culture, the Jewish culture. It's going to be really, really, really amazing. Well, that's cool.

TED: 44:24

 I would wholeheartedly recommend that. I could say something. You know, if you're in the South, you spend a couple days in Marrakesh. That's cool. But then get out to the mountains, get out to one of these villages, and then you'll really see the real Morocco. We got a little taste of it, but that would be fun to do. It's kind of the next stage, you know it's like if you haven't been to Morocco. Well, you want to see the famous sites, for sure, and you should. But where do you go next? How do you get more out of the country? How do you go beyond that and this is the answer is to get the home stays, to meet locals, to get off that tourist path as much as you can, and then you really get to see it, absolutely.

AZDEAN: 44:56

 Absolutely Both nice.

TED: 44:58

 Well and I can't thank you enough. The hospitality, the welcome, everyone was just so wonderful. I'm still pinching myself. You know that we actually went. It's something we'll reflect on for a long time, but because we're still traveling, we're still here in Portugal, we won't get back to Canada for another three weeks or so and I think once we're home and we're really looking through the pictures, we'll open up our carpets and all the things that we bought and then all the memories will really come back even more and we'll reflect on just how special and amazing an experience it was. So thank you very much.

AZDEAN: 45:28

 Well, you're very welcome, ted. Thank you for being part of the destination Morocco podcast. Thank you for being part of our family. I'm glad that you have gone. It means so much to me in so many different ways, in so many different ways, and now the kids are going to love it and they're going to remember it, even Amran. You know somebody who was talking to a friend of ours. He just came from Portugal Portugal is a big part of my, I have a lot of Portuguese friends and he talked to him and was like hey, I'm going to Morocco. Amran was so excited and he tells him about Morocco. He tells him about Merzouk, about the desert, but the things that he's planning to go. And it's really, really important when you have the kids and you do the tour right, so they have that experience, they will come back versus oh, that was a bad trip, I never go back to Morocco. You see what I'm saying. So the kids have seen and witnessed and experienced something today they will come back to them three decades from today. It's just that's what traveled us to people and it's just incredible. Thank you for that, ted.

TED: 46:21

 Well, that's my pleasure to be part of the team and be part of this project. It's lots of fun and lots to look forward to, so thanks very much, thank you.

AZDEAN: 46:33

 Thanks for joining us this week on the Destination Morocco podcast. Our dedicated show website, DestinationMorocopodcastcom is where you can find all of our episodes, leave a review, find our social media links and even register as a guest. If you have been to Morocco yourself and would love to share a story, advice or recommendations, you're welcome to participate in our podcast. Whether it's a five minute story or a full conversation, we will guide you through the steps so that you can share your experience with our listeners. We will be back soon enough with a new episode for you as we continue our exploration of the beautiful country of Morocco. See you then.