PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR EXPERIENCE: Episode 121

This episode shares my interview with Logan Clark, a seasoned investigator with a broad national and international background. One of his expertise's is the recovery of children kidnapped by a parent and taken out of the country. We will be talking about the Guthrie case and the Middle  East. Thank you for liking, sharing and subscribing.  

Logan can be reached at gp-pi.com

Transcript

0:07

Thank you for joining me today. Today on the Private Investigator Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Phil Little on this channel. We talked about the life and cases of a private investigator, and then we look into issues out around the world that could affect us here at home. I do all of my work from the advantage point of my background in the military, law enforcement, intelligence service, and global security, and we find that. We don't assume anything when we start a case because it sometimes takes twist. And occasionally I have guests on who are experts in our field of different areas. And today I have a guest that if I told you this background, we would be here for the whole hour. So I'll just touch on a few things. I've known Logan Clark for a long time. He and I have traded some of the same places in the world and he has spent over 40 years in government and private investigation and is considered one of the top investigators in the world today. He's been profiled in BBC Commentaries, five books, Newsweek Magazine, the cover of American War Magazine, prime Watch, daily Dateline, and dozens of other publications on TV shows around the globe. Mr. Clark and his team have investigated over 20,000 cases from Murder to the Man Act, and they've rescued more than 350 kidnapped or runaway victims. And we're gonna dwell on these things today. Mr. Clark is a pioneer in fighting elder abuse and parental kidnapping, and we're gonna look into that. He had a rescue one that you might have heard about years ago from the Mexico with the James boys kidnapped from Austin, Texas. They were re this was covered by the news in Austin and for six months. And they got a, the story was awarded the prestigious Edward r Burrow Award in 2013. As an undercover agent. Logan has infiltrated organized crime groups, motorcycle, gangs, and fortune 500 companies that was gotten himself hired to kill one of his own clients. I had a little experience something like that years ago. I. He's a former governor of the California Association of Licensed Investigators and Newsweek Magazine said that if Mr. Clark was in an article featuring him today, if it was Humphrey Bogart was alive today, he would be playing Logan Clark. And he's been on various telecast TV shows and he is also done consulting for movies. Logan, thank you for joining me today. Oh, thank you, Phil. Very nice. We have a lot going on in the world that people are watching from our field generally, law enforcement investigations. Like you, I've worked a lot of crime scenes and murder scenes and other things kidnapping in law enforcement into private. This Nancy Guthrie case. It is, I'm shaking my head like along with a lot of other people. Yeah. I know you've done quite a bit of talking about this. What's your take on this and where are we at today and what do you think went wrong early on in this investigation? Wow. What went wrong early on in the investigation is the local sheriff. That was there. He really botched this thing badly. He released the crime scene within, I believe it was 36 hours. He took the crime scene tape off and released it, and there was newspaper reporters walking around, people walking around, taking photographs and everything. The crime scene was contaminated. From literally that point on, and then sometimes three or four days later, he realized the screw up or the FBI told him to close the crime scene again and he went back and, tried to make it a crime scene again, which is like closing the barn door after everybody's gotten out. It's, Nancy was obviously kidnapped and according to Savannah, the last one of the last videos, she said she was actually kidnapped out of her bed. The blood drops that were there, there was blood drops inside the house and blood drops outside the house, but they were all. Direct drops. Yes. They weren't splatter, they weren't sprayed, they were direct drops and they were not stepped in by anybody. I believe that there were two people who did the kidnapping, and I believe they had to have a third person in a car somewhere that would drive up and pick them up. I believe that the kidnapper picked Nancy up. I don't know if it was from the bed or after he got out of the room, but at one point he threw her over his shoulder and in grabbing a hold of her and throwing her over his shoulder. Because of her age, because she was on blood thinners and all that, she probably got a bloody nose. It would be very easy. And that's the kind of blood drops that are out in front of the house on the porch and inside the house. They're straight down drops. And if Nancy was over his shoulder, that's why there were no footprints in the blood because she was literally dripping blood behind him. And he is walking forward, so that's why there weren't any steps in it. I believe that these guys were amateurs. These were not professionals by any means. They would've walked up with a black spray paint can and just sprayed the camera. Immediately, this idiot went up there and I'm pretty sure he's left-handed. He went up with his right hand to, to cover the camera at first. But if you look down at the bottom, you can see his left hand is either jiggling a door or trying to do something. He's maneuvering right. And he had a gun holster in front, in, in front of him, which was a revolver. Gun holster. It was for a six inch revolver, like the Western days. And he had a small, very small, semi-automatic in that holster, and he had it backwards. It's, it was, I think that. That what happened was and two times, two different times they came, I don't know if it was two different days, but certainly the light was different and he didn't have a backpack on, and then he did have a backpack on and that backpack was packed. It was filled with something, I don't know if that was a body bag or what it was, but he had a lot in there. I believe that these guys didn't know somebody close to the family. Told these guys that this was an opportune. This was a good opportune time to do this robbery. She's 84 years old. Her daughter's very wealthy. No one will get hurt. That's what they all say. Yeah, no one was supposed to get hurt, and these guys were able to pull the kidnapping off. But I believe Nancy probably passed between the first and the third day. If not the first day. And I believe that's when they went, oh, shit, now what? Now what do we do? And because they were amateurs they very well may have panicked and left her body, put her body somewhere or taken it somewhere and skedaddled over the, over the border. It doesn't look like the ransom notes. No one has ever been really explicit on the ransom notes. At one point I thought,'cause we're all going off of sources, everybody's got sources, Phil, you've got sources, I've got'em and the FBI everywhere news people have some of the greatest sources. Yeah. But we're all dealing off of what, of what sources say. So it's it gets mixed back, back and forth. It's very unlikely that she is alive. I don't think the ransom notes were from the guys that actually did the kidnapping. Only because no one has said so far that there was anything in the ransom note at the very beginning. There were some reporters saying that they had talked to sources and that in those ransom notes they said where the Apple Watch was, they took the Apple Watch, which was connected, to her pacemaker. They took the Apple watch off of her wrist. Obviously they were smart enough to know that could be tracked and they took that Apple watch off. I thought I was I heard one source say that in one of those letters they told the Guthrie's where that Apple watch was in the house and that something was knocked over in the house. And that is how they believed. These guys that were writing the note actually did the kidnapping, otherwise they wouldn't know where the Apple Watch was. And they wouldn't know which lamp. But then I never, I heard that a couple of times and then that went away. Now did they, did you hear anything about, did they find the Apple watch?'cause I didn't hear that. Somebody had to have, because it was, I believe they left it in the house. Yeah, we never heard anything about him. You're right. You're right. Yeah. Nobody ever said anything about where it is or anything else. Also, other than the fact that they left it in the house. Yeah. The also, in fact, as you and I both know, and everybody else has been around this field, knows. Normally if it's a kidnapping for ransom, they're going to come back to the family directly fast. They're not gonna go to the press or about, they're hoping like, oh yeah, don't get the police involved. Anyway, go to tmz. Go to tmd. Yeah. They're gonna come first off, and none of this makes sense. What would these amateurs, you could come up with all kinds of scenarios. We can think about every case we've worked, but everyone comes up with something different would motivate. These amateurs could come and take her because there were nothing reported stolen from the house. It was not like valuables to say and no ransom. What would've motivated these guys, these amateurs? The o There's only two reasons you do a kidnapping revenge or money. Okay. And that's it. This, I can't think of anything revenge wise. And if it was revenge. They've killed Nancy. They got the revenge and they would let no, revenge is no good unless you let the person know that you got revenge on'em. That's right. So there's no sense in just going and killing somebody and then nobody knows who did it or why they did it. So that kind of leaves out revenge. Because there would've already been a note that would've already been, don't say anything more about this story you reported on, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All right. And usually you go, if you want to get to somebody to like Savannah Guthrie's, the one that had the money. Yeah. You take the person they love, you don't take them. You go after someone, they love their child, their mother, their relative, brother, sister, whatever, because then they'll do whatever you want really quickly. They might not do it if you grab them. That's right. There's certain people, you grab them and they'll go, Hey, stick it up your, I'm not giving you anything. That's right. But you go after somebody they love and now you got them. Now they're gonna cooperate, but nobody in the world does a kidnapping, sends a ransom note, and then doesn't show proof of life. That's right. There's just no, it's stupid. And in the old days, you could do proof of life by having today's newspaper. During the days out phone and everything, put today's newspaper, take a picture of'em. With ai, you can't do that. Yeah. So she had to get on the phone. It could have been a, a burner phone. She had to get on the phone, talk to the Guthrie so that the Guthrie could say, what did I buy you for Christmas to her? What did Savannah buy you for Christmas? Where did you meet your husband? Where did you go to college? Things like that, that they know they're talking to her right now. That never happened. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What the first, when I saw this sheriff and I was in the sheriff's department I law enforcement's my name has always been, when I saw this sheriff the first time he came on, I just was shaking my head and I knew we were in trouble, but I, he does not. Look at acted and he was coming across so lethargy and misd and I thought, this guy is elected sheriff of that county. And then it, I'm hearing that obviously he liked the FBI, what, for whatever reason he's had. Yeah, I think there was a rub there. I think there was a rub there. Yeah. And keeping the F-B-F-B-I out sending the the other DNA to an individual lab, on and on. He goes, what? And then all his different stories. One day he would say, oh, this might take months, years, and weeks. Okay. To be solved all the next day, oh we're hot on the trail. We're gonna solve this. I don't know, I'm he even came out and said, we've made mistakes. Yeah. That's not something you say during a kidnapping. That's right. Yeah. So the theory I don't know what else it could be, but because the two things we talked about money and revenge. Yep. But I don't see anybody it's possible somebody hired them and paid them money to go in and do this. That's possible. But then who, and I think it was somebody, I think it was someone close to the family. I don't know that it was a relative or anything like that, but it was somebody who knew this family, whether it was the pool boy, the landscaper, the Uber driver that dropped off food periodically to Nancy. The Uber Eats, an Amazon guy. Whoever it was, went to these guys and said, Hey, this is gonna be easy. Nobody's gonna get hurt. This is what you do. They got lots of money and they'll pay it, right away. And they went to, sometimes they go to gang members, sometimes they go to just bad guys that, the landscaper or somebody will go, knows a few sketchy guys. They decide, oh, let's go do this. This is gonna be easy. Late at night. It was, I don't know. It was like the blind leading the blind. Yep. It's just, it's so unfortunate because it was handled so badly. It was investigated badly. I don't know anything about the FBI never said anything. So they're I have nothing bad to say about them. They probably tried to. Correct this thing all the way along. Yeah. Then the other thing with the fingerprint analysis going out to the, the places that do the red relationships the big ones won't cooperate. The ones that really have all of the data DNA, they don't cooperate. So there's only some of the smaller ones. So you're not even hitting, near the, population. The ones with 50 million don't Yeah. They're not cooperating. Yeah. Okay. What's your expert opinion on what the result is? Is we're at what we're looking at in experience talking. What do you, how do you think this thing is going to turn out hypothetically? I think the FBI will will eventually catch these guys. I don't know that they'll find Nancy's body. What I expected these guys to do is, once Nancy passed away, is to get ahold of the Guthrie family and say, look, your mom passed away and we don't want$6 million anymore. Just give us a million dollars and we'll tell you where the body is. And that would've been their booby pride. Now if Savannah if Savannah would've hired me, I would've had her do that on the first day. Offer a million dollars. Now, she evidently, I heard she wanted to do that, but the police told her not to. They asked her not to because they would be inundated. With chips. They were inundated. They were getting 14,000 tips an hour or something like that. Yeah, they were inundated anyway. I would've told her to hell with them. Savannah offer the million dollars right now. And that million dollars there's two or three guys involved in this and there may be a wife or somebody or a girlfriend that also knows about it. If you get three people together. They can't keep a secret. They just can't. Is there someone that they trust that they love that would never tell anybody, until the figure$1 million comes up. Yeah. If she put out to 1 million, finally. I know, but I would've had her do it on day one. Yes. Day one, get to it. Yeah.'cause this just wasn't end up. I'm, the FBI has had their hands tied. Oh, yeah. And they've been backing into this with the DNA and not having, if the FBI would've taken charge of this case, I suspect it would've been solved by now from day one. Yes. Yeah. And, but they were being technical that, okay. Technically it's the sheriff's case. Yeah, and it really was, it wasn't a federal issue, right? Unless they could find a kidnapped across state line. But all we can do at this point is be praying and yeah, thank God. Bring some answer here to the family and but we'll watch it as time goes on here to see I'll her. But let's let's take a look out. What's going on in the Middle East now? My background was in counterterrorism and intelligence. I started in Israel and Lebanon in the seventies. And then, brought, went out around the world from there and I spent a lot of time in with the government too. So I'm very keen on this and I spent a lot of time in the Middle East. I had an office in Rio, Saudi Arabia for five years after, oh really? Nine 11. So I was on the ground over there a lot. And, but we all knew, I remember standing near Saudi Aramco on the coast there looking across the channel about 35 miles with the binoculars watching Iran. And it's, you could reach out and touch it almost, and we know that they have been the instigator of all this terrorism and everything that's going on. And finally I wish we would becoming concerned a little bit. I know President Trump. He wants to have peace, he wants to settle things, but you don't negotiate. You'll never have a settlement with ideologues like Iran's leaders and the ones in Iraq, they believe in the 12th Iman theory of Islam that the, their savior will come out of the cave. If they start the war on Israel, they have to start the war. Then he will come out Religiou just right. It's, and he will help them. So this is, this has been the, and I realize. Government politics, I always thought of that, that he was so careful not to say we're, what regime change we're just trying to get the nuclear and maybe missiles. But now they put out that we're gonna work. What's your thoughts and take what do you think about this Middle East thing and how do you see it's going and what's your thoughts on that? I'm. I guess like a lot of people, I'm confused with him, obliterating the nuclear threat of Iran. What, when? Eight months ago? Yep. He obliterated it. Now, how did he go from obliterating it to saying these guys were within days of having a nuclear bomb? They set up new locations. They moved new locations and did And that fast. Yep. And eight set up a new location and eight months they were nuclear ready. That's right. Bullshit. No, I don't know. Not nuclear ready. Yeah. I think that was probably a term that was a little optimistic. Yeah. But they were back to, developing uranium. They were back on the move rapidly. And even though, but they did get some of those locations back opened up enough to get in. They probably weren't working in them again, but they were able to get some of the stuff out that's been, that those folks documented that. But yeah yeah, they were trying. Yeah, they were trying. They weren't gonna, they weren't gonna give up. And they're, and it's. I agree with, they were financing all the terrorism all around, all around the world. They were financing the vast majority of it. And it's good to stop'em, but you, the timing I it's, there's so much with the administration and everything of whether or not it's. What they're doing to distract from the Epstein files or what's, the whole thing is just a mess. Yeah. I think, yeah, I think the big thing was when they, now on the ground, I may words and from, I'm in touch with people that are getting stuff on from on the ground. There was 75, 80,000 people killed. Not 30 or 40. Yes. They slaughtered them. They just went down the street shooting people in the head as they went down the street. Oh, I Iran you mean Iran? I ran, yeah. Yes they did. So I get, we don't interfere with countries and we've got a lot of dictators out around the world. China, Russia, how they, North Korea, how they deal with people. But when they go to slaughtering that many people in just a manner of days, inde, it went in the hospitals and we're killing'em in hospitals. That to me says, okay, world the world should be saying enough. And after I agree, I wish he would've done it then. Yeah. They, I wish he would, if he was gonna bomb. I wish he would've bombed then when there were hundreds of thousands of people in the streets. Yeah. They're starting to come back out again. And that's the whole purpose is to get that Yeah. Up again and to let the people decide, not us decide, like in Iraq and other places where we made huge mistakes. If something, yeah. I spent, I didn't know you were in Riyadh. I spent years in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. I was. I was there before before Kuwait excuse me, before Iraq invaded Kuwait. Yeah. Right before. And then we got involved in that working for the royal family in the UAE. But I, and I did a lot of, I did a lot of intelligence work for Pinkerton, for Colonel au Dotson. Did you know Colonel MDOs? A name? No, I don't know him. Missed a name. Yeah, he was he did the intelligence for Pinkerton the Middle East and the international stuff. Yeah. There's, it was quite, quite what, quite different back then, boy. Yeah, I was in that era. I was in the seventies after I. Moved out of RAL set up. We set up in Europe and I was in Israel and Jordan, Lebanon, Jordan and there, but I hadn't got over on, over into the Gulf right until after nine 11. And, it was interesting. I here, I think in the press here I am, I'm a Christian and committed. I'm, I've got Israel all over my background, and then I wind up in Saudi Arabia, the seat of some info. And I thought, what is this? What am I gonna do here? And you know what they did intensive backgrounds on me. I found from, because of Saudi Arabian Council in Los Angeles had been a client of ours. And we, they had referred business to us. And so I got a call from him one day and said you inferior ministry is asking a lot of questions about you. And I said, oh boy. And he said, we give them a good report. So anyway, I, when I set up there, I, they told me I was with the royal family and some of the families that had formed Saudi na national Guard and all. And they told me, yeah. They said, bill, we know about your background. We know who you are. We know what you mentioned. We, but we also know that you are honest and you're fair and you're here to help us by terrorism. And and it I can't tell you the support I got there on the ground. Oh, they're great to work with. Prince of Saudi Arabia. I'll, Al Fco s is a dear friend of mine. Yeah. For many years, but even like they told me, they said, we got back doors into Israel. We talked to'em all the time. Of course. So it wasn't, so I had a great experience there and I was in both, we had in, I was in Qatar and Mara and UAE mostly in Dubai, but we yeah, we were, had a reach all over that area in what we were doing. Back then. Back then also, Phil, if you had. A, an entrance stamp going into Israel. You could not go into Saudi Arabia or Dubai. That's right. Yeah. I had two passports. I had two passports. Two passports. Yeah, exactly. But I, I got the, I had a five year visa to asani and and no issues. And I was it the first. Terrorism conference at Oh, really? And I was one of his top advisors was in the family that I was close to. And so they had this person when they invited me to come and set up a display and we were only Americans there. And so I, I to take a bunch of stuff in and I went with. We had a big booth we set up, but I had two suitcases full of electronic stuff, all and all kinds of stuff. And so I said, okay. I had a letter from the interior ministry inside that was supposed to get me outta trouble if I got in trouble. So when we got to going through customs, they going out, they check all your bags. So I said, oh Lord. What's gonna happen here? The fan's going to hit. So when I got up and I took my two suitcases on the belt, the guy watching the camera, somebody come up to him, he turned around, talked to this person, my bags went through, I grabbed him, and I headed for the door, and I kept waiting. Nothing I got out. But anyway, it was some exciting moments there, but alright we'll watch and see what goes on there too. But one of the things you've been involved in and we've had quite a bit of involvement with others that are doing the child recovery and whatever. But yeah, this is a subject that's heart touchy, obviously. It touches the strings of all of our wives, of people involved in it. A little background of how you got started in that and, I, again, what did you grow up and how did you get involved in this field? What led you to get involved in investigations and all this stuff? Invest. I was I was one of the young youngest newspaper columnists in the United States in Hawaii. I was 18 years old and I had my own newspaper column in the Hon Advertiser. It was a big newspaper in Hawaii and I wanted to be an investigative reporter. And the editor Buck, buck wouldn't let me. He said, you have no training in that and you're lucky you got to call him. And so one day I saw an ad. For a detective school, and I thought, I'm 18. I thought, oh, okay I'll go to the detective school, and graduate from there, and that will help me become an investigative reporter. So I went to the school for six months, graduated at the top of the class. And continued on my call, writing my column and stuff. And about a week after I had graduated, I got a call from the owner of the school and he also had a detective agency. And he said, Logan, would you come back down to the school? I got somebody I'd like you to meet. And I said, okay. So I went down there. Now I'm, I know 18, 18 and a half, and I go down and he takes me in this big conference room. And it's filled with people. And he said, this is the chief of police of Honolulu. This is his secretary. This is the president of Chrysler Motor Corporation. This is his secretary. And he goes down introducing these people and they told me that there was a half a million dollar the half a million dollar a year embezzlement going on now. And this was 1969. Half a million dollars a year was monstrous. That would be probably equivalent of$5 million a year today. And they said, we don't know how they're doing it. We don't know how they're covering their butts, but we wanna put you undercover. And the chief of police said, I'll give you a phony criminal background. I'll give you a phony apartment, set you up in a phony apartment, give you a car. Phony name, everything. Now at the top television show in 1969 was Mod Squad. Yeah. It was about these kids that were undercover in school. They're older, so I'm listening to this. I'm 18 and a half years old, and I'm going, shit, where do I sign? I'm ready. Let's do it. I said, do I get a badge and a gun? They said, no, you'll never get a badge and a gun. You're undercover. I went, oh, okay. And so I went undercover and they had it all planned out to where I had a car that was falling apart, had bald tires and all that stuff. Anyway, I was in there for six months and was able to, I started buying stuff from the guys that were stealing it and keeping the serial numbers and everything. We traced it all the way up to the accountant. The accounting department and the bills of lading that were coming into Hawaii and everything. Anyway, we busted the, or the whole organization, and I went home and I told my girlfriend, I said I'm a thrill slut. I said, this was the most exciting thing I've ever done. I was, it was a rush, and I said, I wanna do this more. So I, I kept doing it, for about another year. Then I ran in to the guys from Chrysler, the Hawaiian guys that were doing the stealing, and they saw me and they didn't, there was no, they didn't put it together that I was a detective, but they saw me and started questioning me. And everything and I felt real nervous and I thought, I probably need to get out of town for a while. And I took off and went to California, got my brother's motorcycle, and my mom called and caught me someplace and there was no cell phones in those days. She found me in a hotel somewhere and she said, Hey, I'm doing USO. I'm go, I'm in Guam. I'm going to Hong Kong. Manila. Saigon. You want to go with me? She said, you can help write the shows and mc the shows. I said, yeah, I'd like to get outta town anyway. Good. As far as way as I can. And then I went to the, I went to Southeast Asia and got involved in Naval Intelligence. I started working for the Admiral Morrison, which she knew, and I wound up working with a captain for Air America. And got, then I got really into the intelligence world all during the Vietnam War and got more into it. And then later on, towards the end when Vietnam fell, I stayed in Asia and then at the end, 79 or so, I, we all came back to the States and got private detective licenses and, started doing the same thing we were doing, only not for the government. Doing it privately, but that's how I got into it. And, and I loved it. I was also an actor and that was my day job. I could be a private eye and I could still go for auditions in acting and stuff. Then how was the step up and how did you get involved in the child recovery and all this parental kidnapping? Yeah. I was working for the big Z's wa Wanzer and he was legendary. And he got me into parental kidnapping. We did them in the seventies. There were no laws. There just were no laws. You, the mom could kidnap their kid. The dad could kidnap the kid. It was just a free for, it was a wild west. And I started getting into it, into really. Doing a lot of'em, and I got hooked on it. I just got, I got very involved in it and I started, it's a rush to, when par 200,000 times every year, Phil, 200,000 times a year, one parent kidnaps their child. Or children from the other parent goes to another state or goes to another country. If they're from Latin America, they go back to their home country. If they're from Russia, they go back to their home country. I have a client that has been in prison in Russia for three and a half years. Wow. His wife kidnapped his two boys from Texas and went to Russia. And he went there to try to get a, an attorney and try to fight for visitation and the Russians arrested him. Oh, wow. She had put all kinds of false charges, which she tried in Texas and they threw him outta court. But he has been literally in prison. We haven't been able to get him into any of the exchanges. I was working with Governor Bill Richardson. And we were really close to getting them out. And Bill died just unexpectedly. The governor died. Yeah. So I've gotten I've been involved in it for almost 40 years. I've done it in Cartoon Sudan, in the middle of the desert. I rescued a 4-year-old blonde-haired, blue-eyed girl, a German girl from a Bedwin village. She had been kidnapped in Ethiopia. Wow. And we got her in Sudan and escaped up the Nile River. If that's not a movie, I I, when you get a, when you get a call from a client for this age, my child's been naked and the other parent took it. What's your process? What's the first thing you think about? What are the things you go through in preparation for initiating action on that case? The first thing I do is tell the client to start marking everything down. Hopefully it ha Sometimes they call me and they go, the kid, their child was kidnapped six months ago, right? Sometimes it's six days ago. And sometimes it's a couple years ago and they've been, floundering around because they go to the police and the police say there's nothing we could do. He's with the father or he is with the mother. How much danger can it, they be in and the cops just don't do anything. I tell'em to make a journal of everything, gimme a timeline of everything that happened. And I said who you, who do, who has your phone bill? It's much different now with cell phone. In the old days when we had just landlines, it was a lot easier. But who are the phones with? I wanna know everybody that your, let's say for example the wife, most of'em are wife. I'd say 65. 68% of all the parental abductions are the women. Wow. That are doing it. And I, that's after 40 years and doing hundreds and hundreds of cases all over the world. So I ask how much do you know about your wife? How long were you married? Who are their relatives? I want to know every phone number that they've called. Did you, how many brothers, sisters, all the relatives they have. Everything. Where did they go? Where did they come from? Did she come from another country? If she came from another country, more than likely that's where she's gone back to. And put the list down. You got, and you gotta make a police report. You gotta force them to take the police report. A lot of times the police will not take a report. They'll say This is not a kidnapping. He's with his mother. And they're wrong. They're absolutely wrong. It is a kidnapping that's, it is a federal offense. And if you cross the state line, it's a felony. Now it's a federal offense. Yes. Right now it's unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. But getting a UAP warrant is almost impossible. Yeah. But you can't get anything unless you get that first police report. And you don't need an attorney right away. Most people go to an attorney and they hire an attorney. They put a bunch of money. Five or$10,000 attorneys are great. They file papers, right? That's right. And they choose the gun that they're gonna use in court. Hypothetically, they're gonna use a shotgun or they're gonna use a rifle. A 45, whatever it is they're gonna use. We, you and I are the people who get the bullets for those guns. Yeah, those guns are useless without bullets, without ammunition. That's right. You can file all the papers you want. If you got no ammunition, you got nothing. That's a great analogy. Yeah. So I tell them, don't hire an attorney right now. And most of them hire the attorney that handled their divorce or hire an attorney that's a friend of theirs that does personal injury. That's not the guy you want, you and I would say at least 50% of people waste. 10,000, 15,$20,000 on hiring the wrong attorneys. That don't get'em anywhere. So what we put together the details, you file the police report, and then we get an attorney. We know all kinds of attorneys that they just to file a paper, just file a couple of papers, file a couple of motions. You don't need to do a whole bunch of stuff. Let us first find the child. We gotta find the child. So as long as you've gotten your police report, as long as you keep your chronology, keep a tablet by the bed at all times because you'll think of things the more you'll think of every night, you'll think of things. Call me 24 hours a day. Talk to me. I'll be calling you. My, my assistant Jackie will be calling you and you'll be thinking things, write'em all down. And then you've gotta work on getting to the gallies. You gotta work on getting full custody. Normally you shouldn't have to do this. But nowadays, because the police don't cooperate, they've gotta get full custody, legal and physical custody because the child's been kidnapped, right? So get to court. You go in and do an ex parte with an attorney, and because the child's been kidnapped, because there's a police report. Because you have all that information. You get Yes. Temporary, legal and physical custody of that child. Yes. Now you got something. The next thing I want is a rid habeas corpus. Bring the child back. The child is to be brought back to this court immediately. Yes. And it tells all police officers to cooperate. Of habeas corpus. It's a warrant in lieu of a Rita habeas corpus. Yeah. Yeah. That's the beginning of the things you gotta do. Yeah. Now, these places you've gone out around the world, you mentioned Sudan and others, without giving a lot of stuff away, what does it take to get into sedans? Any place like that in the world into a foreign country? And I know in our operations when I'm going in with, we weren't looking for a child music, but yeah. What do you do? What's some of the process and techniques and say, how can we get into that place and get the child out and safely? How does this bring come about? Depends on the country. Sometimes we will go into a border. We'll cross in a border that we can drive across and easily, get into the country. For example, Sudan. I had my agents go in. I had a Farsi agent who went in from Egypt. I had'em go in from different era, British SAS guy, going from different areas. I could not get in. I went and applied for a visa. There was no American Embassy there. So there was no diplomatic anything. Yeah. So they refused to let me in. So I flew to the United Arab Emirates. And I went to my friend to. And I told him, I'd known him for years and I told him what was going on and he said, okay. He said I said, can you get me a visa in there? And he goes, yeah. So he told his guy, he says, take Logan down to the Saudi Saudi Arabia embassy, because Sudan's not big enough to have their own Yemen and Sudan. They use Saudi Arabia embassy. Go down there, go take him down there and get, get him a visa. And they took us down. So this guy took me down there, I filled out all the papers and they still turned me down. So we went back to his palace and he's with some people, and he goes, oh, Logan how did it go? And I said they turned me down. And you could have heard a pin drop in this big room. You could have literally heard everybody just shut up. And he said, what did you say? I said, they said no. They turned me down and he looked at his guy. He goes, Babo, and he is speaking to him in Arabic. He says, is that true? He goes, yes, sir. Yeah. They turned him down and he sat there with this look on his face. He couldn't believe it. It was just like, and he reached over and he picked up the phone. I don't know who he called. Called somebody and just rattled an Arabic man and he goes, take him back. So this guy takes me back to the Saudi Arabian Embassy and we pull into the parking lot and the consulate, the Saudi Arabian consulate was standing outside in the parking lot waiting for us. And he'd going, Sahi, I'm so sorry. I didn't know you. I'm so sorry. Anyway, that's how I got in. And then you, the, there was a foreign embassy that was there that the child's uncle was a very powerful man in his country, in a western country. And so he said, look, we can help you, but at arms length. We can't, we can't let the country know that we're helping you, but we can help you. So we just worked it like any special forces operation. Yep. Get in, be quiet, find who you want, and then get the hell out. Yeah. Yeah. I know a lot of the places, like out around that world, I, I couldn't show my face there because I'd give everything away. Yeah. If the American showed up, it was like, everything would be on alert but you, yeah. You have your local guys that fit in and they can fit in and out, and you just have it all planned very well. But what is the most interesting case in that recovery over the years if something, when you say, oh, this is probably the top one that we really dealt with. It was real issues in every way you could think, but it was so rewarding to get it done. What would you put at the top of that? Probably the Sudan. Probably the Sudan one. It was the one of the most dangerous and getting that 4-year-old girl, in the middle of the Sahara Desert, from bed winners. Was unbelievable. We had guys chasing us on camel. Literally they're chasing us going. Yeah. I'm looking around, I'm expecting arrows to be shot at us. Yeah. It was pretty hairy, but in, and in Poland went we did it in Poland one time. And I took a fall for the team so they could get across the border, but I wound up in prison in Poland and it was not good. I was stripped and beaten. It was bad news. Now how long did that go on before you got out? Six days. Wow. And then they got me at my friends judges shakes. Yeah. Vice the vice President. Al Gore was vice president at that time. Yeah, and I was under a phony name. I was under a phony, purpose and everything. I usually go in, undercover completely. Yeah. Like you different passports. Yeah. What do you like in a European country now, let's say if it had this situation, what do you run into now? And if, we've had cases where, they were actually in a friendly country. They weren't in Russia or they were someplace that was, open and friendly. But the person had gone back there with the child. What have you run into in that and how do you navigate that? With it being more open when you can really go in and do all those things, but yeah, it's difficult sometimes. Sometimes we. Get the legal papers and do the papers correctly and get it all. If you have to go through the Hague Treaty, it's a mess. The Hague Treaty is there. They say, oh, it doesn't cost any money. That's bullshit. It does cost lots of money. You have to have an attorney where you live. You have to have an attorney in the Hague, whatever country. They went to, you gotta have an attorney there. It costs you between 30 and$50,000 for the Hague Convention, and it takes three to five years. Oh my goodness. After three years, the Hague has the right to say the boy was kidnapped when he was two years old. He's been here for three years. He is now five. So this is his country of domicile. So we are gonna rule in favor of the mother who's here and has had the child here for three years. So you've gone through all this stuff and then you wind up losing, and I've had cases where they win in the Hague, so sometimes we get it legally in a gray area. We'll get our warrants, we'll get somebody in that country, in the law enforcement. That works with us. And I had many times where an officer in that country will take the paperwork and say, okay, hedge for the border, get the hell outta here and be gone in two hours. Yeah. Yeah. And then what are you gonna do? I'll take the heat, I'll say, I don't know. I don't know what happened. They're gone. Possession is nine tenths of the law. That's right. Yeah. And you've brought up some interesting points for people because so many people have come to us after they've been to some investigator or some other entity with this horror story, and it went on and on. Nothing happened. They spent all this money, then they come to us saying. Help us straighten this up. So my advice to any viewers and watchers is if you wanna find your child that's been kidnapped or know somebody or whatever, don't just bounce around. Call Logan, contact Logan Clark and let him lay step by step from experience so you don't waste in 20, 30, 40,$50,000. And parents will pay that. Their children back many, and then they come to guys like you and me and they go, I've wasted all this money. That's right. Now I'm broke. Yes. I don't have any money. I need you to help me. Yeah. There are a couple places we work with that they're nonprofit and they've got guys that will help people like that. Yeah. And and obviously, and we've had them refer the client to us and then the nonprofit paid us. I've had the same thing. Yeah. So sometimes avenues out there for people and we both do. You and I both do some pro bono cases. That's right. But so folks, whether you are hiring a detective for whatever reason, or to find a missing person or to investigate a case, or you want the facts and the truth, call Logan for those those children, particularly call West Coast detectives for whatever the phone might ring with, and we'll make sure you get the right answers up front. Now, I know. That we could talk for another hour, even though we've talked for an hour. Can you believe that, Logan? But let me know in the comment section if you have questions or things from Logan and I'll get it to him or down the road we'll be on again. But give me questions. Logan, what is the way for people to contact you? The, my website is GP. Global Pursuit, gp-pi.com. Okay. Or you can just go to logan clark.com. Okay. Yeah, that's easy. Logan? Yeah. Logan Clark do com. Yes. And make sure Clark has an E on the end of it. Yes. Okay. Now guys, you got, I'll put that in the. The comments also as the, we get this ready to go out. But remember, if you have any questions or comments with them, I'd love to hear from you. Love to know what you're thinking about. If you would like to hear about some kind of a case, certain case, then let us know about that and we will work on that, getting it done. And remember the drill hit the like. Share, subscribe and hit that notification bell for future post and we'll keep you up to date. Logan, it is been awesome having you on and catching up. Thank you. And we didn't even get into it. I spent a lot of time in Hong Kong and had an office there, worked out across that four East, and we could talk for hours about those experiences on the ground. Time down the road. So remember folks, let us know. God bless each one of you and may God bless America. We will see you next time. Bye-bye. Thank you, Phil. I think I got it stopped.