Optimum Nutrition
The Optimum Nutrition podcast is a weekly interview series brought to you by the Institute for Optimum Nutrition (ION) - one of Europe’s longest established nutritional therapy training providers. Each episode, we explore a new topic within the world of nutrition with an expert guest, touching on their food and health journeys, and addressing common myths and misconceptions. Together, we’ll discover how powerful food can be for our health and happiness. We’ll find out how a ‘healthy diet’ looks different for everyone. And, because food is so personal, with each guest we’ll talk a bit about what food means to them.
Optimum Nutrition
Empowering your kids to eat healthier with Catherine Jeans
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Catherine Jeans is an experienced nutritional therapist, and founder of The Family Nutrition Expert, based in Norwich. Jeans graduated from the Institute for Optimum Nutrition and has since lectured for ION and runs her own private practice which has helped over 2,000 clients from around the world.
Through her online nutrition courses, private coaching programmes, and live workshops her aim is to educate and inspire families to live a healthy, happy way, every day.
Jeans holds professional certificates in NLP and life coaching, as well as being a YTT200 hour Functional Yoga Teacher. She is a member of the British Association for Nutrition and Lifestyle Medicine (BANT) and registered with the Complementary and Natural Healthcare Council, the UK regulator for complementary health care practitioners.
Racing the Rainbow, Jeans’ first children’s book, co-written with Rachel Holmes, presents healthy ways of eating in a fun and engaging way. Packed with facts, activities, and easy recipes, this fun-fuelled publication aims to feed a child’s imagination. Available on Amazon.
Interested in learning about nutrition yourself? Check out www.ion.ac.uk to find out more.
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Interested in learning about nutritional therapy?
Visit www.ion.ac.uk to find out more.
Views expressed by guests are not those of ION, nor does ION endorse any third party products mentioned.
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Is fat always bad? Should we cut carbs? Or go vegan? Or how about paleo? What's the best way to lose weight or avoid diseases? Or just feel good? We're faced with so much confusing information about food and nutrition in our daily lives that it can be difficult to know what healthy actually looks like. But here on the Optimum Nutrition Podcast, we separate the fact from the fiction. I'm Hattie Wilmoth, a journalist and communications officer at the Institute for Optimum Nutrition. And each week I'll be talking to an expert about a specific topic in the world of nutrition. Together we'll discover how powerful food can be for our health and happiness. We'll find out how a healthy diet looks different for everyone, and because food is so personal, with each of my guests we'll talk a bit about what food means to them. The Institute for Optimum Nutrition, ION, or ION for short, is one of Europe's longest established nutritional therapy training providers. In partnership with the University of Portsmouth, it delivers a range of courses to suit a range of needs. Whether you're new to nutrition, you're looking to build nutrition into your practice as a healthcare professional or fitness coach, you want to become a registered nutritional therapy practitioner, or you're already qualified and looking for some CPD. Go to ion.ac.uk to find out more. This week's episode is with Catherine Jeans, a nutritional therapist who was also a lecturer at Ion at the time of recording. We discussed teenagers, an often forgotten age group, with particular needs and challenges when it comes to nutrition. Catherine, hello, welcome to the Optimum Nutrition Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me, Hattie. We're gonna start off like we do every single episode. With a couple of quick fire questions. So my first one to you is Are there any weird combinations of foods that you enjoy? Cool.
SPEAKER_01Uh well my husband would say it's weird, but I don't think I put sauerkraut on so many things. So many. And so many nutritional therapists probably do, but I pretty much put it on most of my savoury meals. Um, yeah, because I just love the crunch and the freshness. I make my own um red cabbage sauerkraut with some beetroot and Nigella seeds in it, and I just think it brings a freshness, and I know it's a good way to support my gut microbiome. So, yeah, that's one of the things I do.
SPEAKER_00That is such a nutrition therapist answer.
SPEAKER_01It really is, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Also, um did you have a favourite food as a teenager?
SPEAKER_01Well, yes, but I wouldn't say it was a particularly healthy favourite food. Actually, two things that spring to mind um pasta, because I was a very um, I wasn't a particularly healthy vegetarian. I'm not a vegetarian now, um, but mostly for ethical principles, I turned vegetarian at the age of 12 uh and to about the age of 22, and I didn't do it properly. And I'm not saying you can't be a healthy vegetarian because I think you probably can, but and my mum did her best, but I've I ate a lot of pasta, that was my thing, pasta and cheese, which I think a lot of vegetarians probably did in those days. And yeah, we're talking nearly well, over 30 years ago, uh, giving away my age, and um, you know, when you went to a pub and you wanted something veggie, people looked at you weird and gave you cauliflower cheese. I mean, that was what you got, so it wasn't a lot of choice, and it's not like it is today, definitely. Um, and then for me, I just have these real memories of my dad used to take me out on a Saturday morning, it was our time, and we used to go into the city, and um, there was a particular high street chocolate shop at that time. I think you know the one I'm talking about, and it had a particular chocolate which I think was called a Viennese World or something, or Viennese Trouble, and he would buy me a bag of those, and that and to that to this day, I'm I'm 47 now, and it just evokes such a memory. Although they have changed them, they're so much sweeter than they used to be. They're just that I mean, I think there's just you know classic how things are going with food generally, just everyone is used to sweeter tastes now. But you know, those things they they just bring us back to our childhood, don't they? It's amazing for me how smell and taste and sight and and ritual. I think it's really important. Yeah, I'm a real advocate of keeping our food rituals, even if they're not the healthiest, because it you know it evokes joy, and that's really important.
SPEAKER_00It's so interesting how connected smell and taste are to memory. Like every now and again I'll walk into a building and I'll think that smells of my nursery school, that smells of my primary school, and it's just because of the cleaning food.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And I'll tell you something I can't eat. Yeah, I can't eat those long buns with icing on because I have a memory of being five years old and being held in my school canteen for the whole of lunch because I wouldn't eat my pudding, and the smell of those evokes such negativity and real like uh emotion in me. Um, you know, so like five years old being, you know, not force fed, but told I couldn't leave until I'd finished my dinner, and that included my iced bun. The nutritional therapist that you are today, I'm lecturer, I told you. So uh I always ate healthy food with uh as a child, particularly under ten, and my mum was really into healthy food and to grew a lot of our own vegetables to the point where I used to pull up onions out of the garden and eat them like apples. And I remember this, and uh we used to love them, and you know, I used to have battles, the same battles I have with my own teenagers now. So, oh wow, we always got to have brown bread, and why can't I drink fizzy pop? But you know, thank you, Mum. I actually really, really appreciate it now. Uh, and I'm so grateful that she taught me to cook and you know, taught me uh the importance of good food. Now I didn't always listen to it, and I was not the greatest vegetarian, but um and and then as a teenager I developed a few health issues, so I had um quite chronic asthma from about the age of 14. I really struggled with my weight, that's probably why I ate because I was eating so much cheesy faster, and um actually in my late teens and early 20s, I developed an inflammatory bowel disease. Um, I had a very highly stressful job in my early 20s. I was a TV producer and journalist, and just kind of burnt out. My weight was going up, and uh and then I took a sabbatical, it took a few years out and travelled around South America and just had a career break, and um I went back into journalism for a short period and I had an awful accident. I broke my back and I spent um uh two months in hospital lying flat on my back in a Spanish hospital, and I uh spent about three or four months recovering, and I you know I really grasped the fact that we have one life, and you know, I could have died, and um thankfully I have no uh no problems now. And at the time, actually, my dad had met a nutritional therapist who tried who trained at Ion, and uh she really helped me to recover not only from my inflammatory bowel disease, she's my stepmum to this day, so I'm a really good mentor, and um uh I recovered from my inflammatory bowel disease, and I really I don't have any back problems now, having broken one of the largest vertebrae in my back, and um it kind of changed my life, and my husband and I uh both decided that we'd like to change our lives, and that that led me to Ion, and there I am 13 years later. Um, I you know did my training at Ion. I was pregnant twice during my training, so I I had a busy time training, and uh so now that's uh I've got my two teenagers, I've got a really busy practice. Um, I love what I do, I don't regret for a moment what I do. Uh, I love my work, I love my business. I now mentor other nutritional therapists as well. I have a really portfolio career, and and as you said, I lecture I on uh as well. Um, so yeah, that's my kind of journey in a nutshell.
SPEAKER_00It sounds like you know, if that doesn't change your life, then that's why it's weird, do I?
SPEAKER_01You know, that's so well nothing else will, I think, when you spend, you know, two months, I think it was six and a half weeks, nearly nearly seven weeks, or nearly two months laying flat on my back. But the Spanish hospitals were amazing. What I just said, the care that I got was absolutely wonderful, it just wasn't a very peaceful place.
SPEAKER_00Oh sure. And now I mean I don't know how peaceful your house is with two teenagers, that would be interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have uh two teenagers, and uh we're all a bit neurospicy in my house. I don't know if you've heard that um expression, but we're all on a journey at the moment started by one of my teenagers. So it's all a bit of a melting pot, and having two teenagers anyway is uh quite can be quite challenging. Whole new level of parenthood that I'm experiencing, um, and going back to bed before my 15-year-old, because I need to be in bed at half nine at night, and you know, she doesn't, and that's her brain and how it's wired, right? Teenagers don't need to be going to bed that early, and they and it's really struggling against that natural physiology actually in the brain development, you know, that melatonin surge that we get overnight, that hormone that surges that helps us to sleep, actually, you know, it doesn't stop being produced until later in the morning, which is why teenagers struggle to get up, and it is a struggle to get the you know, my particularly my older one out of bed to get to school. You know, I think we know so much about science now that schools aren't quite keeping up with how what we know about our brains, and there are some amazing schools that are starting later. Um, uh, you know, but then there's probably for the teachers. My husband's a teacher, my husband's a full-time math teacher in high school, so I don't know if he'd like to start two hours later because then he'd finish two hours later. So there's all those challenges, isn't there? But you know, we're we're fighting against our teenagers' natural physiological development when we're trying to get them out the door at half seven, eight in the morning.
SPEAKER_00Definitely. I mean, I don't want to give away my age, but I wasn't a teenager that long ago. And I can absolutely remember and relate to the complete impossibility of getting up early in the morning. Um, but we're gonna talk about teenagers and nutrition today because it is a big it's a it's a time of change, isn't it? So many things change physically and emotionally and spiritually. Yeah, um but in so many different ways, and teenagers are often left out of the conversation when it comes to health, nutrition, and just kind of everything. Um so I want to start off with a great big question. We're gonna take this in whatever direction we like. Um, what would you say are some of the main hurdles or struggles that parents face when trying to feed growing teenagers?
SPEAKER_01Uh, I'm I'm with you parents because I'm living it, can I just say? So I think one of the biggest problems I see is peer pressure, if you like. Maybe pressure is not the right word, but I think a healthy diet is no longer the norm in in the UK society and in many other countries around the world as well. Not even school meals are particularly healthy. I mean, there's some high schools that are doing an amazing job, but there's some that really should know better and could do better, right? And then it's often it's not the school, it's the catering organisation and it's the trust that they're called. So I get it, and it's budget and all those things. But you know, if what schools are giving kids isn't healthy, that sends a message that this is how we should eat beige, right? Um, 66% of the adolescent diet in the UK is from ultra-processed foods, right? So that that statistic alone tells you what we're battling against as parents. So when we're at home saying, you know, oh well, you know, you need to eat your vegetables and fruit, all that lovely bright colour, you need to eat your nuts and seeds, you need to eat all your fish, uh, you know, you can't be having those packaged quick convenience foods. It it already starts as a battle as soon as children have an experience of other children's diets, because you know, that isn't the norm to eat perhaps in the way that we should be eating as humans, right?
SPEAKER_00You know, yeah, definitely. And also if people are going to school and eating that food, ultra-processed food we know has addictive qualities too. Absolutely. No, that's gonna be what they used to, and then also because they're eating that, you're you might want to be counteracting all of that less healthful food with a whole bunch of nutrition at home, and then there's something even further, you know, you know, further away, or even more dust like extremes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, and I and I think you know, it gets worse as they get teenagers because they're starting to accept their independence, go out on their own, and have their own money. They're seeing things, you know, food trends start on social media, right? You know, that big whole thing, I don't know if you're aware of it, it was a year or two years ago about that energy drink in in young children. It started on one of the social media channels, right? Uh, and so they're just there's just these influences that are are promoting uh, you know, these trends in food. And it and it and you know, even like my son, he watches a lot of these, you know, food making videos, and some of them are are healthy, but some of them are awful with the amount of sugar uh that is put into them. So this is what they are seeing. I I guess my biggest message to parents, and what I really uh think about is that I do the best that I can at home. I do the absolute best. Uh I try not to feel guilty, I lead by example, um, you know, I do the absolute best that I can at home, and we generally do not buy ultra-processed foods at home. And if we do, it might be a very occasional um pizza, although I tend to try and make my own. But a lot of parents don't have the time or the knowledge or the skills or the budget to be able to do that, and I get that. So I think that's one thing. Um I think the second thing is we're seeing such a huge rise in mental health issues in children, um, and that really affects our eating. Whether you're talking about depression, anxiety, if we're anxious, uh, that can impact our digestive system so we don't feel like eating. A lot of children, and I see this with one of mine, really don't want to eat breakfast if they're low in zinc, which can affect their mental health, um, then that can impact their appetite and how they break down their food, so they might feel a little bit nauseous. Um, and I've got to the point with one of mine where she does not want to take supplements hardly ever anymore. So we have to compromise, right? You know, it's one thing or two things at the absolute maximum. So I have to prioritize what I'm giving to her. And then we're seeing this huge rise in neurodiversity, which has a huge impact on how children eat, what they want to eat, sensory issues around food, because, and that's a downward spiral because the more the brain becomes nutrient-starved and nutrient deficient, the more likely you're going to see sensory issues around food, or food restrictions, or anxieties around food, or digestive issues and things like that. So it's you know, really that kind of body-brain connection. It's such a downward spiral of health, and that's one of the things I worked with in my clinic, is just trying to slowly turn the tide so you can get that upward spiral of health. I think another challenge, I think, is that you know, parents. I remember one of the lecturers when I studied at Ion, it was Sally Child. She's she was a specialist in children's health at the time, and she said, you know, when our children are born, they are born with a guilt pill that comes out with a placenta. And I and I see that in my own journey, and and parents, you know, we we feel guilty because we're not doing enough, and and sometimes it can be also overwhelming the noise we hear about you know what we should be doing for our children, that we can get a bit frozen, it's like taking an all-or-nothing approach. And I think parents and carers and grandparents, we're all so much more time poor than we used to be. Um, you know, women are obviously in the last 60 years are working so much more, but also taking still a lot of the burden on. Of I'm I'm not saying, you know, there are a lot of fathers and male carers out there also doing their role, but that you know, women do take a big part of the burden, and we are time poor. We are time poor. So, you know, when you've got your own stresses and busy life and pressures of work and your own health issues and your own mental health issues, it sometimes can be very difficult to then have that brain power to, you know, what do I then create as a meal? And I understand why it's let's get a quick freezer meal and get it out there. So I kind of take the point of, you know, what can we do just to make things that little bit better? Like, where are we at at the moment and what could we do? And really thinking about adding in. And I think that's really important when you're trying to support a balanced approach to food with teenagers. Don't just talk about what you should, shouldn't be eating, you know, just talk about adding in. Yeah, talk about what are the things that we could add to your plate. Classic example, like my my kids are particularly my daughters, loads of clubs, and we are taxi service right now, Hattie. That is my husband and my my role uh uh most uh school night evenings and at the weekends. And so there's one night, for example, that I do, and my kids love it. It's it's breakfast uh for dinner, right? We call it tea, I'm from Norfolk, we call it tea, uh, but I'll I'll change it so everyone understands what I'm talking about. Breakfast for dinner. Um, and you know, I will do uh baked beans, uh, some eggs, um, you know, I'll do some good quality sausages, some toast. On that plate, there is gonna be, or on a separate plate, there's gonna be chopped-up cucumber, tomatoes, pepper, and carrots. So it's it's those little additions that just become so normal that that is what is gonna happen. Or I might give them the salad bits while I finish off cooking the breakfast, right? So you might think a cooked breakfast not healthy, but you can just make really simple changes, and it's it's just those little additions I think which make such a difference.
SPEAKER_00I think also the five thing with teenagers is that we're talking about the parents, and that is because I asked you a question specifically about the parents, but this is a time when people are becoming, you know, teenagers are becoming more independent, they're becoming their own own people for a lot of them. Um you know, the responsibility of eating and which foods they eat and do not eat become their own. Yeah, you know, a lot of teenagers do not have meals cooked by their parents. Um and that's not always a bad thing, is it? You know, that that new independence. What are the kind of opportunities that teenage independence can can bring? I guess for parents it means less high in the kitchen, perhaps.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I think it's that getting involved and becoming a responsible member of the household, although that is quite hard to instill uh in a teenager. But you know, if a teenager is interested in food and cooking, they get the chance to cook what they want for that evening meal. And I think that's a really important uh point is empowering young people to you know take back some control of what they're eating. So, you know, I think that's a really good habit to get into. I think a lot of the cooking that happens at school, particularly in primary schools, tends to be baking. High schools are better. Most most kids will do food tech at least four years, seven, eight, and nine, and then they can decide whether they choose it for their GCSE, for example. But um I think you know, uh learning to cook two, three, four, or five good, healthy, cheap, budget meals for when they do leave home, for when they do go to university, and just learning to be around uh food and learning to make healthy snacks. I think that's another challenge that parents will tell you about is that teenagers are hungry, particularly teenage boys, particularly sporty teenage boys, it's like their bottom, their legs are like, you know, they're filling up their legs with their food, right? Is that this bottomless pit? So, you know, like it, I think that's that starts with education around a calorie does not equal a calorie, i.e., you know, if you eat uh more fat and protein, you're gonna be fuller for longer. And those things then you're you know, if you if your teenage son is or daughter is coming home and eating crisps and biscuits, they're gonna be hungry half an hour later, right? Because these are low fiber, low protein, low-fat foods. Whereas if they come home and they make a smoothie and put nuts and seeds or peanut butter or something in it, or they put a little bit of protein powder in it, or they come home and make themselves a chicken sandwich, right? Much you know, proper food, just like real food. Uh, you know, and I and I use that term a lot with my with my kids. Like, let's eat real food, right? Sweets are not real food, chocolate's not real food. Those things are additional foods, they're maybe fun things that we have outside. I try not to use the word treats. Let's have real food, food that's going to sustain us, it's going to nourish us and help us feel full so that we're not coming back to the cupboard, you know, half an hour later and wanting to touch into new things as well. I would say on that though, what I'm seeing is a rise of teenage boys, particularly really into their protein powders. And I think it's a little bit of a danger area that we're not having too much protein and relying on often very ultra-processed protein powders, because a good quality protein powder often is quite expensive and probably out of the budget of a uh most teenage boys, unless you're lucky enough to have your mum or dad or whoever buy a good quality one for you.
SPEAKER_00Well, this is this is the thing because a lot of what we've been talking about so far has been in the context of okay, what about what are parents going to make for dinner? But a lot of teenagers for them, it's not just what a mum and dad's gonna make for me, it's what am I going to rustle up in the kitchen. Um, you know, so for what for teenagers where their parents are busy or working and they're often just in the kitchen looking for something to cook and they maybe don't know what to cook or don't know how to do is it Then the parents' role is not necessarily teaching will, it's providing the ingredients, filling up the kitchen with lovely things, and then allowing the child to kind of go for it, just make what they want. And I suppose then as well, they can kind of react to what they're craving or what they want or what they feel like their body wants. Um, and often they end up with very weird combinations. I know that my brother wants fine apples actually just had seven eggs to dinner. I think okay, so absolutely we lovely. Yeah, but you know, then that sort of changes the dynamic a little bit, doesn't it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and I was gonna say just you know, encouraging uh young people to just try to think about that connection between food, body, and mind as well. And often that isn't something that is taught. You know, we tend to hear about in school, you know, that the connection between health just being about weight. You're unhealthy if you're overweight, you're healthy if you're not a normal weight. You that that is kind of a message that comes across, and I would really encourage teenagers to think about other aspects of their health that could be connected to nutrition. Uh, and as parents, really think about the ones that are going to motivate your child when you're talking about it. You know, is it skin, is it hair, is it strength and bodybuilding? You don't just need protein to build muscles, right? You need zinc and other things. Zinc comes from nuts, seeds, you know, whole grains, that kind of thing. You need carbohydrate to be able to get the uh protein into the muscles and the glucose into the muscles. Um, you know, so all of those things. Is it that exams are coming up and you know you've got a motivated child who wants to do well and wants to, you know, go on to their next college? Uh is it for sport? You know, just really relating back uh, you know, what they're experiencing. And then uh I think as well for kids, they need like in their face, very visual cues, you know, lists. So, you know, uh I like the idea of sticking things on the fridge that say healthy snacks for you, right? And it's da-da-da-da-da. Like give them a list of five things, make sure those things are in. Because kids do come home from school really hungry, really, really hungry. And one of the things I find, you know, particularly in our neurodiverse populations of kids, often they're not very good at what is called interoception. So that means they're not very good at tuning into uh when they're hungry and when they're full. And often what you find, um, for example, there is a high prevalence of binge eating disorder in people with ADHD because they don't eat, don't eat, don't eat because they're ignoring or don't know they're hungry, and then it gets so late that then when they start eating, they can't stop, and then uh don't know when they feel hungry. It's a real difficulty with turning inwards and feeling those things. You know, that kind of mindful eating approach doesn't work for people that are not great at interoception. A lot of teenagers are like that, they just get busy, they have to have neurodiversity to feel like that. You know, they just get busy uh and forget, right? And oh, I'm hungry, and then like you know, and if that blood sugar has dropped, that's when the kind of moodiness and the emotional dysregulation comes in, right? You're if you have got low blood sugar, whether you're a teenager or an adult, you are going to really, really struggle to regulate your mood because you're in fight or flight. So, you know, mum says, Have you done your homework? You know, like that is what that's the reaction you're gonna get, and and it's physiological, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, teenagers definitely have a reputation for being very, very moody, and I do want to come on to that a little bit later. But one of the things you mentioned earlier in your answer just now was about always trying to be bulky or like bulk up for the gym or whatever, and then also the pressure of some teenagers feeling like they want to eat certain things in order to be a certain size because of body image, and I think the body image stuff is really kind of introduced to teenagers when they're quite young teenagers and starting to be able to choose what to eat. How can parents navigate that? Because I can imagine it's incredibly, incredibly difficult before you answer.
SPEAKER_01So, body image, um, yeah, it's an interesting, it's a really interesting subject, and and and it can be quite alarming as parents, you know, to to know how to to navigate. One thing I would say is that our uh in my children's generation, they are more accepting of difference. You know, there is this acceptance of gender, there is this acceptance in in some to some extent of you know different sized bodies, and there is this definitely accepts acceptance of neurodiversity, right? So we are we do have a generation that is a little bit more accepting, and I'm hoping that does come to body image, but I think there's so many different messages around that, you know, there is that kind of real positivity towards it, but then I think on the other hand, on the flip side, you've then got all these, I guess, I uh role models, role models, uh, on places like social media who are you know uh really into their appearance, right, and being a certain size and things like that. So I I guess you know, uh as parents and carers, what I would really emphasize is body image starts with yourself. So if you are talking to your teenagers about, oh, I mustn't eat that because I'll get fat or overweight, or you know, I'm on a diet again, and your and your children, particularly teenage girls, see you, you know, restricting and then binging and then restricting and binging, you're not actually really looking at that because teenagers learn so much, or children from such a young age, they learn so much from what their adult role models that they live with are doing. And I and I think it's really important to look at our relationship with food uh as parents and how we project that on our on our children, and you know, unconsciously we say things that came from our generation of uh of growing up, and I think that's a really, really key thing, I think. Um I think the thing is it's uh you know, like if you have a child that does potentially struggle with their weight and maybe does overeat, I think it's really important the messages that you give around food and and and and you know, not saying things like stop eating, you mustn't eat that much, because that has such a negative connotation. I actually, again, in those situations would recommend that if you can focus on uh keeping a child's um appetite at bay by get giving them the right foods, you'll really help that uh you know development of a healthy gut microbiome, uh, you know, helping them to feel full, regulate their uh blood sugar levels so that they're more on an even keel, and then that can you know really help support their appetite control. So those are the key things that I would look at so that they can then have a healthy metabolism. I think self-esteem is an issue, you know, mental health challenges, difficulties, struggles are massively on the rise, and we've seen it since the COVID pandemic that numbers are astronomical, uh more than we have ever, ever seen. So, you know, our teenagers often their self-esteem is is not great, um, and it's a hard one.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting as well because traditionally we always think about girls and girls and the pressure to be thin, but um there there's like there's so many boys who now feel pressure to go to the gym. And I'm not saying it's a price to my brother, but I'm just saying that my brother is someone who is a teenager that goes to the gym, and it's interesting the kind of conversations that I've had with him because they all come from him, and it there just seems to be a bit more of an impulse from boys at the moment who are teenagers who just want to ask questions, you know, how what is the best way to support my body while I'm lifting weight? Yeah, like how they they just want to ask questions, and I think that like being able to answer those questions rather than interject from people eating and say, Don't eat that, you know, that's that's gonna maybe be a good way to respond because they they're they're almost adults, yeah. Like especially older teenagers.
SPEAKER_01And it's brilliant that the you know, our young men are so interested in fitness and health. Uh I think it's a balance always, isn't it? We don't want to be going to that other extreme of orthorexia when there's an obsession, you know, like a real eating distress around, you know, wanting to have uh, you know, only healthy, what what is considered you know very healthy food and being frightened of other foods. So it's it's always about balance. And again, I would recommend anyone talking about food, you know, it's not about good and bad, it's not about, you know, it's not about never eating your favourite ultra-processed foods, right? I do occasionally uh, you know, like uh, you know, my my my kids have never had the uh the drive-thru famous fast food outlet, but they have had one of you know that that the treat occasionally is one of their ice creams, right? I'd much rather they have a good organic ice cream, but that's what they want. So, you know, I'm not gonna be the one that bans it because otherwise it becomes a uh something they really, really want. So I think it's just always talking about balance, not about good and bad foods or that's a high calorie food, because that's you know, we have to learn about that. Calories are different, and and and I really feel that you know what should be taught at school in teacher to teenagers is how to read a food label, because that's one of the biggest problems I find with my adults that I work with in clinic is that they don't know when they're eating healthy or not. And we we we come from this you know time-poor society where sometimes things have to be fast. That is just the reality. I could sit here and say, like, you must all cook everything from scratch, but the more I I work in clinical practice, I know that for the vast majority of busy families, that's not a possibility a hundred percent of the time. Um, you know, maybe we could get to 50%, and that is that would be fantastic, but we've always got to work with where we're at and never feel guilty about you know what we can't do. Therefore, if we are we are need needing to buy ready-made foods, it's uh how can we buy the best that there is? Because there's a lot of food in packets that isn't ultra-processed, right? And but people don't know, and that needs to come through the next generation, right? How do you actually read a food label? How do you know what to look out for? How do you know when you know something has these health claims on the front that it's not full of all kinds of all sorts of other rubbish? Um, you know, how do you know that the you know there's the stories before Christmas, um, you know, uh about uh, you know, sweets that had these uh you know really dangerous ingredients in them? How do you know what to look out for? Uh, you know, what is the simplest way to read a read a food label? How do you understand what the traffic light system and is it really relevant? These are things that I think need to be educated, and and what are the dangers of the things that we see in these foods?
SPEAKER_00So sometimes though, those foods which even if they are obviously unhealthy, um those might be the foods which some teenagers find most palatable, most appealing, maybe most comforting. And we've talked a lot already about neurodiversity, but um but how can those kind of sensory issues play into food choices? You know, you mentioned just then balance and making sure that teenagers get balance, but for some teenagers it will just be completely revolting to eat certain foods, and so you can't necessarily get the entire spread of the rainbows, for example, or all of the textures that a nutritional therapist might recommend. Um so how can parents or even teenage school sales navigate that?
SPEAKER_01It's a difficult one, uh, and in and it's knowing perhaps uh a little bit more about those sensory issues, whether we're actually looking at you know, sensory issues, our fiddle, you know, which is avoidant restricted food intake disorder, um, which you commonly see with uh neurodiverse individuals, but not necessarily where there's very restrictive eating patterns. And actually, you know, if someone has sensory issues around food, they have to be really careful because you know, it's like me asking you to eat a piece of broad chicken. It can be that like physically revolting for a child or an adult that has um sensory issues around food, and we have to be sensitive to that, and you know, we can't just say, well, take everything out and put in these other foods because that can be hugely anxiety-driving for a person that gets comfort from eating a certain way, that comfort from eating a certain colour, a certain texture, certain smells, sounds.
SPEAKER_00And there can be so much fear as well surrounding the food that they avoid. I know someone, for example, that is on the autistic spectrum that absolutely cannot eat edible. Like they don't want it on any, like as an ingredient with anything a sort of fear food and they avoid it completely, no matter how tiny it is, because it is just a fear of that of death.
SPEAKER_01And many neurodiverse individuals get great comfort from eating the same foods over and again, and and it's it's a stimming type behaviour which helps to regulate and balance the nervous system. So, you know, if if a if a nutritional therapist comes in who is not trained, or a dietitian or a nutritionist, or whoever comes in who is not trained in uh neurodiverse affirming practices, you can actually do more damage than good. Because when you do have a young person that is eating very limited foods, the absolute number one priority is to keep them eating those foods. And and and all kind of your classic knowledge as that you probably trained in if you know for neurotransmitter um for uh nutritional therapists listening, it you you know you would be shocked, but it you have to keep that that person eating food because you you cannot put their uh their health at risk, and and many and not all, but you know, those that do have RFID may be struggling uh with their weight, uh, you know, in that they are they have a low BMI. So you know it takes a lot of um support and it takes an awful lot of time. But there are some amazing uh uh changes that can happen. I I once worked in a um a residential school for neurodiverse children, and um we had this young lad who who would literally only eat two foods, uh very processed um turkey and very processed potatoes. Um, and you know it was a it was it was just really slowly changing and getting his comfort around food, but it took weeks, but very slowly we we made him a uh a turkey dipper that was coated in um ground almonds and uh put some turmeric in so it looked like the same colour, and you know, that was on a plate next to, and that just went on a plate next to for next to him for uh three or four weeks, and uh eventually he decided that he wanted it on his plate, and then he wanted to try it, and then you know it took nine months, but actually uh after that time he was eating a chicken curry by the time that we'd kind of finished that work. So it is it takes a lot of patience, it takes a lot of very slow support, and you know, introducing those foods at a time when perhaps not at main meals, you know, not at a time when you want that person to be eating, and really gradual, very slow, steady approach. But sometimes the main priority is that how can we get this nervous system more regulated around food? So if you need to have a screen while you eat, then you're gonna have a screen while you eat, which again harm will exactly whatever balances that nervous system, and obviously, we hear so much about you know, we should all be sat down the table, we shouldn't be eating the screens, and that's where I'd like us all to be. But I mean, in my house we try at least once or twice a week to all sit down and eat a meal, but I know that if I try and do that seven times a week, it's just a flashpoint for uh you know arguments because it creates anxiety in that way, eating uh you know, food altogether all the time. So you have to kind of let go of a little bit, you know, at times, uh those classic, you know, rules that we see about how we should eat and what we should eat. So it's a very interesting balancing act, but it does require some professional support. But there is change that can be made. I really want to, if anyone is listening, you know, who has uh either children or family members who have quite sensory issues around foods, uh, and and as a nutritional therapist, I would also really start working on nourishing the brain. And initially, that might be with some supplements uh in a way that is palatable and and okay for that uh teenager or child, and actually nourishing the brain, it's that you know, rather than going on that downward spiral of health, it's coming on that upward spiral of health, which then helps with those sensory issues around food, and you can then just by getting in some of the right nutrients that are needed, you can then start making change. I had an email uh from one of my clients the other day, oh my goodness, we just ate spaghetti bolognese, it's incredible, right? And just hearing that from a parent is just wonderful, you know. She's got a five-year-old son, and just hearing that from a parent is like, thank you, thank you, you know.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, I've got those that you do this stuff for sitting. I wanted to ask as well, you're talking about supplotation, because of course, teenagers aren't just like mini adults, they have their own physical needs that they need to support with their food, so it's not even as simple as like you know, keep them eating and to support a a mini or sometimes very big, they're already not um adults. What are the particular demands that teenagers' bodies need? Nutrition.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh iron is a real big one. Um, not just for girls, obviously, because they're starting their periods, but for boys as well. You know, we need iron for our brain development, we need it for concentration and focus for neurotransmitter balance. Um, really, really important for energy production. And obviously, if a girl has very heavy periods, that is going to deplete her of iron. And uh, most teenage girls do not get enough iron in their diet. It is a problem, uh, it's a problem I'm seeing more and more when uh you've got more um uh teenage girls going vegan or vegetarian. You know, you can get iron on a vegan and vegetarian diet, but it needs to be well planned. So it's trying to get those nourishing foods in there, nuts, seeds, which a lot of dieters don't eat at all. Uh, you know, greens, dark green leafy veg, which a lot of teenagers don't eat at all. Uh, if you eat meat, it's meat and red meat and the darker meats and things like that. Yeah, so really trying to get those iron-rich foods in, it's really important. But a dried fruit is also a good source of iron, so often quite a good one. Um, so getting some of those ingredients into homemade flapjacks if you have time, great way to get them in smoothies, green smoothies. Um, you know, iron is also really important for strength for teenage boys, so that's a good way to encourage them to get some spinach into their smoothies, which you can buy frozen, right? It's great, it lives in the freezer, chuck it in a smoothie. Um, really, really good. Peas are another really good source of iron. So that's one really important one. And I think we don't hear enough about calcium, but uh calcium is so important, bones are developing, you know, our bone density increases right up until the age of 30, where we should meet meet our peak bone mass. If we are not reaching our peak bone mass at 30, then we are already starting the decline that happens at that age in bone mass at a lower level, and and that's when our bone mass starts to drop. So we've got to reach that peak bone mass, um, and high intake of fizzy drinks will uh have an impact on our bone mass as well. So, really important. So, calcium, and again, you know, this move towards uh more plant-based milks. Um, you know, milk is not the only source of calcium, but if you've got a child who uh is is quite a restrictive eater, doesn't eat a lot of fruit and veg, doesn't eat nuts and seeds, doesn't eat sardines, doesn't eat uh beans and pulses, I've given you a long list that a lot of teenagers don't ever eat those things, then milk is a bit of a superfood, right? We you know, nutritional therapists can get a bit anti-milk, but you know, if there's uh milk in my diet and my children's diet, which is obviously highly nutritious, and there's milk in a poor diet, that milk is gonna be a really, really good food. And unless a child is struggling with weight, they should be having full fat milk, okay? Uh, it shouldn't be semi-skimmed or or skimmed milk, you're gonna get more fat-soluble nutrition in there. So, really important, and obviously you've got calcium in in uh all dairy has calcium in it.
SPEAKER_00And fat soluble nutrition. Sorry, I just want to start to say for people that don't know fat soluble nutrition, um, when you said that, then that's that's because there are some vitamins and minerals and nutrients that Oh, better digested, better absorbed into the body, waste more fat out.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And when you take the fat out of the milk, you're going to lose some of those uh fat. So the vitamins are actually almost dissolved in the fat, if that makes sense. So when you take the fat out, you're losing some of those uh vitamins like vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin E, vitamin K. Uh, those ones are really, really important. Yeah. Um, I think you know, it's a period of massive growth. So, you know, teenagers do need to make sure they've got enough protein coming in as well. We don't want to overdo the protein, but we, you know, if you're having pasta and pesto, uh, you know, it takes me back to my teenage years. Where is the protein? There's a little bit in the pesto, but you aren't going to get very much. So we do need that protein. Protein will help support growth, not only uh muscle growth, bone growth, uh, um, and it's really important for our neurotransmitter production. So when we're thinking about, you know, learning behavior, mood, you know, we need good serotonin, we need good dopamine, we need all you know, acetalcholine, all those neurotransmitters, they have as a base protein, right? That lots of other vitamins and minerals are really important too, but we have to make sure that we are getting in enough protein uh from that. So that's your either your animal proteins, meat, fish, eggs, dairy, or your plant proteins, uh, beans, poulses, tofu, nuts, seeds, that kind of thing. So, really trying to get some of those things with each and uh every meal. Um, and zinc, you know, we have to mention zinc, it's so, so, so important, um, and really important for grace and development. And uh, one of the things you can see, that some parents will tell you that their child's behaviour changes when they hit puberty, that's when you might start to see ADHD symptoms exacerbate because the growth demands, particularly in boys, at that time, they're using up a lot of their zinc, and a lack of zinc can cause hyperactivity, irritability, mood changes, changes in how the brain uh you know develops and and you know functions on a day-to-day basis. So you might see those kind of behavioural problems start to be exacerbated uh around uh puberty. So getting in enough zinc-rich feel is really really important. So you might see irritability, hyperactivity, white spots on all the nails, acne, uh lots of stretch marks, um, uh coughs, colds, immune system problems, these are uh classic signs of zinc deficiency. It can be other things, obviously, as well, but these are uh classic signs of uh zinc deficiency. Um, and so really making sure that you're getting in enough zinc. So again, it's like foods that a lot of teenagers do struggle with, like your nuts and your seeds. Um uh actually, for me, Hattie, it was great when my kids went to high school. I could start putting nuts in the lunchbox, but you know, but now I'm getting the message, oh don't put those in. People think I'm weird. So I'm not allowed to now put nuts in, even chocolate-covered nuts. I'm not allowed to put in lunch boxes, so it's nut bars where they're kind of hidden in and things like that. So that's kind of what tends to go in. Um, but you know, nut seeds, but red meat has a is a good sort of thing. Whole grains are the reason to eat your whole grain breads, your whole grain pastas rather than your white, because you're gonna get um more zinc in there um as well. And interestingly, you know, zinc can low zinc can cause nausea and digestive issues. So if you have a child that really struggles with breakfast uh and they say it makes them feel a bit sick, it could be that they need more zinc to get their digestion kind of kicked off and started uh in the morning. So that's another thing just to be uh aware of as well.
SPEAKER_00Interesting. I mean, I remember as a teenager I didn't eat breakfast usually, but that is just because I was always running late because I always wanted more tea. So I would always sacrifice my breakfast in order to get an extra 10 minutes in bed. Yeah. Um we got us full circle all the way back to where we started. Yes, that's right. We only have a few minutes left, Catherine, but I wanted to quickly talk about the kind of food environment and youth conscious that teenagers are in right now. Yeah. And they might, I mean, like all teenagers is in the UK especially, um, this is their first maybe foray with alcohol. Well, maybe not, but you know, for a lot of teenagers it's it's when they start drinking secretly, maybe with a parish knowledge. Um but also especially with this generation, there's so much vaping going on. Um and then there's also just a load of more general stuff, like you've already mentioned the canteen food. I remember at my uh sixth from college that everything almost everything was beige, and I used to often have just like salt and chicken nuggets for lunch, which is just the what I can't even waste all that. Um and then then through light food addiction, then also this is a generation where not only is there school stress but they're reeling from the effects of a pandemic. All of these different things here just have to cope with. Um, what's your approach to handling those types of scary, yeah, scary topics?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's just sort of out and about for teachers to have to cope with. I mean, it's overwhelming, isn't it? Both for our teenagers and and for parents as well, and they are exposed to so many of these things. You know, 20% of children have tried vaping. That was a statistic I got from 2023, right? They're not vaping all the time, all those children, but it's a problem in schools. You know, my husband's a teacher, you know. I've as I said, and it's a massive, massive problem in in in schools. I think the thing is, is that looking at, you know, these things are part of society, but looking at what might be driving the use of these things, like what is what are those things replacing, right? And actually, a lot of this is quite addictive behaviour, isn't it? So we're dopamine seeking, and that's quite normal for teenagers to be dopamine-seeking as well, because their prefrontal cortex takes a little bit of time to catch up with the rest of their brain. The brain has been tweaked, right? And so, you know, okay, so therefore, what can we do to help our teenagers to support a better balance of dopamine production? And you know, trying to get some uh kind of guidelines and maybe like some suggestions and intentions, let's say, I don't like the word rules around sleep and when a phone should be switched off. That's certainly what I do in my house. Like, you know, I know some parents that don't let their children have their phones in the bedroom at all, but I just know that my children really struggle to switch off their brains, and I've come around to the fact that they just need some noise in the background to be able to get to sleep because otherwise their brains are monkey brain. You know, that's that uh classic teenage brain exacerbated by neurodiversity. So we have to listen to our kids and we have to work with where they're at, and it's a process of compromise, so it's not ignoring that it's happening and having a discussion around okay, so what other tweaks that we can make? You've got you've mentioned five or six or seven things there, right, Hatchie. You can't just say to your yeah, and you can't just say to your teenager, you can't have any of it, right? Because they'll just rebel against you. It's part of their culture and it's part of their world. So maybe start with one thing at a time and you know, talking about the health benefits of change and and this is what in our household, this is our intention, and this is what I really think. But you've got to give them some slack, you know. I don't necessarily believe that you know all teenagers should not be drinking alcohol ever because I don't think that's a healthy approach either. So it's about bringing everything in balance in a safe environment. I would rather my children have a glass of wine with me when they're safe rather than behind a bush in the park, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and and I want to I want to finish then by asking you, you said let's do this one one thing at a time. If parents come away from this with any two or three takeaways that they can try to implement with their teenage children, what what would you want those three two or three things to be?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think one is uh having an open conversation and not giving up on that conversation about the health benefits to eating more fruit and vegetables, the potential health risks to alcohol, vaping, that kind of thing, so that you're giving the message that this isn't a normal human thing to do. Uh, you know, that although it feels normal because the rest of society are doing this, but you know, actually what human bodies need is this. So keeping that conversation and keeping the communication lines open, trying not to do it in a in a preachy way, but just having discussions about it, right? Um, and looking at your own relationship with food and how you eat and how you live your life, and and trying to, you know, lead by example, uh, I guess. And that's not being, you know, like completely 100% healthy either, right? It's about I do this in balance, and and that's certainly the approach that we have in our house. I think the second thing is prioritizing sleep. I think it's so important, and and most children just do not get enough sleep. And I'm gonna say one thing as well. My mum always used to get me up at eight on a Saturday morning, come on, we've got lots to do. Let them sleep on a Saturday. Let them sleep on a Sunday morning, right? You know, like let their physiology happen. You know, I've got no problem with my daughter sleeping till one on a on a Sunday, she's too busy on a Saturday, but on a Sunday, if she wants to, she sleeps. I think it's really, really important that they do catch up. Um, and I think the third thing is just keep adding in the good stuff, right? Make it so normal that there is going to be some vegetables or some fruit with every single meal it's on the plate or on the plate on a side. Obviously, if your child really has sensory issues towards one food, don't put it there. But you know, always just making sure that food's there. It's the maybe list. It's like I hate, I like, here's some things that might be okay. Pick from that list, right? Not the things that really, really going to cause them anxiety and affect their nervous system. So, what could you put in? And you know, and maybe it's on a separate plate, but it is just becomes so normal. So it becomes okay then safe to have those foods around and get your kids in the kitchen as much as possible. Get them around food, get them cooking, get them watching you cook. Just create that hub around your kitchen as much as you can so that it becomes normal to eat some real food.
SPEAKER_00Catherine, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me. You've been listening to the Optimum Nutrition Podcast. Thanks for getting this far. I hope that means you like what you've heard. In which case, be sure to follow us on social media at ion underscore nutrition, sign up to our newsletter for monthly nutrition content, and visit our website at ion.ac.uk to find out about our courses. You could even buy a copy of our brand new cookbook, The Colourful Kitchen Collection, full of nutrition info and 80 glorious recipes by our ion alumni to promote health and well being. It's yet another way we're celebrating 40 years of ion.