Intro  0:01  
Many aspire to reach the upper echelon of the healthcare industry, but few are able to successfully navigate the corporate ladder. C-Suite Partners sits down with international healthcare executives, asking the tough questions and unpacking the personalities of the top industry leaders. Welcome to the Boardroom.

Michael Murray  0:35  
Ashok, thank you so much for being a part of "In the Boardroom" with C-Suite Partners. I'm sure the audience would love to know a little bit about what you're doing in your current role and why you're here in Jakarta.

Ashok Bajpai  0:44  
So, I'm the Chief Transformation Officer for PBM Indonesia Healthcare Corporation in Indonesia. It's a group of 38 hospitals across Indonesia, and we are very proudly the owners of the Bali International Hospital as well in Sanur, Bali. So really, I think if you look at what IFC does, it is really one of those experiments by the government of Indonesia to bring in a foreign investor, which is the Swire group, along with the Indonesia Investment Authority, to start world class healthcare in Indonesia.

Michael Murray  1:18  
What was the motivation for healthcare? Was it because someone came looking for you with your skill set, or did you seek it out?

Ashok Bajpai  1:27  
Well, it's quite accidental. I think, after working for about 20 years, I developed the reputation of turning companies around, and I got this opportunity to work as Managing Director of Apollo Hospital's flagship hospital in New Delhi, the Indraprastha Apollo Hospital, which is a 750-bed facility really known around the region as one of the best healthcare facilities in this area.  So, that opportunity for me to actually head a hospital, which was a publicly traded company with all of its intricacies of running a large organisation, a complex organisation, but also having a social contribution, that's what really drew me to healthcare at that time, because every decision I would make would basically be touching a human life.

Michael Murray  2:14  
And, in general, in Southeast Asia, including Indonesia, where do you see the greatest opportunity for healthcare?

Ashok Bajpai  2:20  
Well, Indonesia clearly is one of the front runners because of its vast population. So, with about 290 million people, just by scale, it's tremendous. In terms of where you can have the most impact, if you move the scale out of it, I think there's Vietnam that is certainly a contender to bring in quality healthcare here. So, I'm certainly looking at that. The Philippines has, of course, progressed tremendously here. So, I think these are the top three countries that I see developing extremely well over the next few years.

Michael Murray  2:52  
And in terms of workforce, if you could redesign it from scratch in healthcare, because that's something that everyone talks about, we're involved in it, you're involved in it, what would you do differently?

Ashok Bajpai  3:02  
In fact, I met a hospital owner just a few days ago, and he built one hospital. He's now building a second hospital. I told him, I'm highly envious of him, because he could actually start with a technology-based system to begin with. He could hire the right people with the right, you know, with the sort of right mentality to have, to have a sort of a growth mindset built in, but also develop a culture of care. So, those are the three elements, if you look at, if you, if you are able to provide a technology base for your hospitals today, you're able to hire the right talented staff that are able to deliver compassionate care to your patients, and you're able to provide an integrated care, not just siloed systems of care, clinical care. I think that makes, that's a winning formula for any hospital.

Michael Murray  3:52  
In terms of emerging technologies, it's a hot topic in healthcare. We're talking about AI. We're talking about imaging using AI, these types of things. Just generally, in terms of healthcare, where do you see the emerging technologies playing a role?

Ashok Bajpai  4:08  
Well, I think it's very clear AI is something that is evolving so quickly that, by the time you implement a system, it's already obsolete. So, what I've learned, first of all, is not to get wedded to a particular technology here. So, implementation of AI is obvious. It has to happen, and it has to happen very quickly. The more important part of that is actually adoption of that. What we're finding is, in many countries, you have a lot of people who certainly understand the need for it, but don't know how to actually use it. So, people capability and the ability to adopt that level of professionalism which AI brings is something you need to work towards. So, what that actually tells you is that you have to get the right people trained, then adopted into that AI also. What I've realised is that using an AI platform that actually provides you with multiple options is far better than wedding yourself to one, one product where you get stuck with. So, in imaging, for example, if I use a company that actually is able to get me different AI companies for a brain scan versus a chest scan versus an abdominal scan, that's far better technology for me than having separate screens from separate companies.  Second is adoption by your own teams, because just buying the hardware and software is not going to get you anything if your people don't get there. Third, I think the use of technology in decision making, in an ability to actually have an impact on your patients, is very important for me.

Michael Murray  5:43  
What about moments in your career where you've made a big mistake? We've all made them. You've made them. I've made them. Executives made them, and how that shaped your way of thinking? Can you think of any of those moments?

Ashok Bajpai  5:57  
Far too many. I think one has to bide their time in one's career. I think I was approaching around 45. I had been with this company for five or six years. I was beginning, I was, I was a brand head, I was a country head, but I was not a CEO. And, in fact, I talked to my boss and I said, well, you know, I've been in this company for about five years. I've done this, this, this, so I think it's time for me to be a country CEO and run multiple brands. And he said, well, you know, it's post 2008, things have slowed down. You can throw your hat in the ring, but, you know, it might be a while before you get there. And I began to feel this pressure that I need that title, and if I don't get it, I'll be left behind. So I chased a title in my career, and I became CEO of a company. And I walked into that company, it was very large P and L, but I walked into that company, and I think on the first day, I realised this was probably not going to be a good fit. So, when you feel that, I did well there, turned that company around, got promoted, stayed there. So, you know, didn't give up. I made sure that once I had committed to it, I stayed with it. I delivered what was expected of me, but it was a tough grind for those two years where I felt that perhaps that culture was not exactly the right fit for me.

Michael Murray  7:21  
So, if you went back to give your younger self some advice, what would you say 10 or 15 years ago?

Ashok Bajpai  7:29  
Well, that's always a tough one. I think 10 or 15 years ago I would have had 20 years of experience. I would have said, don't rush to make a decision. Use your intuition, because after 20 years of working, you can trust your judgment. And sometimes you need to make a quick decision, sometimes you need more information, and sometimes you don't need to act. So I think it is that intuition, which you develop over a number of years, that tells you which of those three you should be doing when you're faced with the situation.

Michael Murray  8:06  
Perfect. Well, Ashok, thank you so much. That's a great way to end it. And thank you for being a part of "In the Boardroom".