The New Nomad

Nomad Stays: Digital Nomads, Come and Stay Awhile with Mark Phillips | TNN47

March 14, 2022 Andrew Jernigan and Allen Koski Episode 47
The New Nomad
Nomad Stays: Digital Nomads, Come and Stay Awhile with Mark Phillips | TNN47
Show Notes Transcript

Yes, digital nomads stay in one place for some time. Many professionals and employees have realized that the newly implemented remote and flexible work policies have allowed them to work free from the anchor of a company office or workspace. This has given birth to far more remote workers and digital nomads seeking freedom of movement while still building a career. Of course, stable internet connection, distraction-free working spaces, and access to necessities are a must. This is where Mark Phillips of Nomad Stays is an expert.

Mark joins our hosts, Andrew Jernigan and Allen Koski in this episode of The New Nomad. They talked about how important accommodation is for the laptop-wielding workers and what are the things to look out for when finding a place to stay. They discussed their adventures as nomads themselves and their experiences in countries budding as digital nomad destinations. This episode entertains and educates listeners about the expectations in the digital nomad lifestyle. So be ready with your note-taking skills as the information they share is as valuable as gold.


TIMESTAMPS:

[6:13] The life of a lifestyle traveler

[12:01] The world opens up to digital nomads

[16:23] Reading versus experiencing a place

[20:06] Get work done in coworking spaces

[22:36] Fun and friendly, the Australian way

[25:11] Seeing a familiar place through a different set of eyes

GUEST BIO:

Serial Entrepreneur. World traveler. Australian.

Full-time nomad since 2015 Mark is a keen adventure motorcyclist, aviator, and global startup mentor who has traveled to over 100 countries. Proactive adventurous digital nomad, business mentor, Chartered Accountant, and award-winning business entrepreneur. Formerly of KPMG, Microsoft, Apple, Australian International Hotel School & MudMaps.


Mark Phillips Links:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/imarkphillips
Twitter: iMarkPhillips
Website: nomadstays.co


Follow Insured Nomads at:

Instagram: @insurednomads

www.insurednomads.com

Allen  

Welcome to The New Nomad podcast. We have Mark Phillips as a guest today of Nomad Stays. Gonna have a really interesting conversation about safe hotels, safe stays different places to visit the changes in how people travel. And really, to me, it's incredibly interesting. As I was doing some research, they they've opened up locations to somewhere like Oman, which must be an incredibly fun place. I had a great journey once in the past to Jordan. So I know there's overlooked places in the world that we're going to talk about today. And with that, Andrew, you've traveled a lot of places you know, as we were talking today about Nomad Stays and the different places we like to go, has there been a place that's really surprised you in your your travels, that you had low expectations, and then you get high returns?


Andrew  

In I really have enjoyed my times in and out of South Africa. It's one of those places that I definitely would return. I follow the places I've stayed and I'm thinking I'm gonna go back there. Different different regions of the country have a different culture it's it's definitely one of those places. You know, one of the places on my bucket list though, that I haven't been that I would like to go and it's it's has a blend of the adventure traveler to it, and they just come out with a remote work visa is Cape Verde, or Cabo Verde. And that's one of the places on my list.


Allen  

And well, and I would assume Andrew, not only do they have the visa, but may may have great Wi Fi? Because that is a almost a prerequisite to our digital nomad audience that.


Andrew  

it is and you know, they've really made some advances there. So it's, I'm looking forward to going there. Speaking Portuguese, it's, it's one more reason why it's on my list.


Allen  

Well, like I mentioned earlier, my surprise was I had a business trip to Jordan. And from that trip, extended it to go visit the Dead Sea, Petra, some incredible Roman ruins. In one of the surprises of the trip was there was a old church there that predates Columbus that had a map of the world on the floor in tiled. And it seemed to have a rough outline of North and South America, leading us to wonder that maybe there was a little bit of an inkling that there was more going on here. Unless somebody really guessed properly. You could see the outline. So that was my surprise. And so why don't we bring Mark in. Mark is traveling and Mark actually this year, I saw that you've crossed What 1112 borders already. Like God,


Mark  

That's right. Yes, thank you. Yeah, we were based with my accent, obviously, is not European or American on Australian. I'm based in Europe these days. And we got we got locked down in France for quite a long time. And I'm actually a resident of France these days. But as soon as we could get out, we jumped in the car, and we're traveling. And so far 11-12 Actually, technically 13 borders at this point in time this year. And it's been interesting, because they're all different.


Allen  

Is there been any real difference between pre pandemic when you travelled a lot? That'd be obviously you've got to have the correct paperwork. COVID. But what's, what's your feeling on this? And as we release this podcast, in 2022, now, obviously, there's a lot of different thoughts, but we the having a COVID passport, or at least having your card is probably not going to go away.


Mark  

And you see, no, it is actually incredibly complex at the moment. And it's largely because the rules are changing so often. And the poor people on the borders, don't know what the rules are the people trying to cross the borders don't know what today's rules are, what time they start, all those sorts of things. So there's quite a lot of confusion. But not any real animosity or anything like that. It's just people are trying to do the right things for the country. They're just not quite sure what it is. So there is a lot more extra time taken in many instances, and maybe a little bit more standing your ground arguing your point, referring to official government documents, things like that, that you might need to build into your repertoire today.


Andrew  

Well, you know, you've you've had a lot of countries during the pandemic, but prior to the pandemic, this has been something you've been involved in the I mean, I believe what 15 years back you were involved in co working spaces and and traveling what the Silk Road and Indonesia and all around the world, I look forward to hearing some of these stories today. What is your most, what is your passion and what are you building currently that is sweeping the world?


Mark  

Okay, so obviously love to travel, and I'm out of the corporate world. I've spent a lifetime in business advisory, services and in the technology industries. So I've actually worked for both Microsoft and Apple, and KPMG and people like this in my my career. But traveling I love and even before going fully nomad about six years ago, I had traveled to nearly 100 countries. And so I had a lot of experience and some for short periods, some for longer periods. And there's a range of issues that make it more difficult, the longer you travel, and one of those is affordability and finding somewhere to work. And typically, the last 100 odd years, the travel industry is focused on leisure tourism, people that go for a week or two, maybe for a weekend for something short, sharp, they expend a lot of money, prices are very high. Hotel industries are based on this. But when you've got this lifestyle traveler as effectively nomads and many others are, you are looking for different things. And particularly with this internet world we're in, we need some Wi Fi, we need to be able to have quiet room to make a phone call at two o'clock in the morning. We need to cook our own food, we need to wash our own clothes regularly. So the facilities needed a different when you have a lifestyle of traveling compared to a short, sharp intensive leisure time.


Allen  

And with Nomad Stays, you, you provide that. And I think a very important part is when I've looked at your site, the affordability difference of going for a week, then looking at your local hotel on a day rate is and a lot of the people that we have in our nomad and you know, audience, you know, they they're very conscious of the cost, but they also want to go somewhere for a month. Have you seen a lot of changes along those lines? And, and certainly the difference between staying you hit upon it for a week, to a month, or maybe even extending through this digital nomad visa period even longer. For what trends have you seen there? And I just love how you're supporting people for longer stays.


Mark  

Yeah, well, we we pioneered the so cost effective longer stays. So when we launched about 22 months ago, and we were the only ones doing a month long, affordable stays, you could sort of book easily. And typically, these are half the price of the traditional major leisure players booking.com, the Expedia group, Airbnb. So we achieved that literally by negotiating with each of the hotels saying listen, you've got empty rooms nobody's feeling it your offseasons on on right now how about we get you some money? How about we get you some great clients and help spread your risk in terms of leisure or pure business markets and let's add these additional markets. So literally, it's how we started and what we have now it's 62-63 countries, a couple of 1000 rooms people have been applying from around the world. And you know literally saying Yep, we would love some extra guests and nomads are saying, oh well I don't need to spend 1000 a week I can get 1000 A month or 500 a month or something even lower some of the stuff is down to 250 us a month in in Europe for self contained fully internet provided apartment like it's thick insane prices by looking.


Allen  

that's that's incredible. So how do you does the hotels reach out to you or do you identify a country that we have you've had people say hey I really want to have nomad season. How do you do that? I mean it's got to be a certain art about getting this this type of hotel to support you but also to feel comfortable that that hotels the quality and the standard it is that you like. How do you do that?


Mark  

Yeah, no, it's it's by far the most time consuming part most manual part of our business is to identify and qualify exactly the right sort of properties that we want to have listed. We're not trying to be everywhere in the world for every property like major leisure platforms. We're just wanting good quality properties that are dependable for for this longest our digital nomad remote worker market. So we I guess, within a month of opening, COVID hit, and I turned our business off just after we opened this Like, Oh, God, this thing's not going to go away anytime quickly, there's not going to be much traveling so we'd better hunker down. We've been bootstrapping. So we know we got enough money to keep ourselves going. And there's no good marketing windows, no customers. So we built out a lot of the tech. And as a consequence, we started dominating a lot of the search engine optimization for about 30-40-50 words. At the same time, the market was booming. So we we started getting 1000s of visitors coming to our site. And all these properties. Around the world were desperate for money, they heard about this emerging, funny market of people that were going to work from home, that was workcation and then was digital nomads, a whole lot of words that describe this, this longest staying client that is digitally connected. And so they approached us and every day we get, we get up to 10 properties approaching us. At the same time, there are Nomad routes, I should say, with American, there are routes that the nomads are following around the world, there are hotspots which have got great reputation. And so we're reaching out to properties in those areas. And we use a lot of segmentation checks and hacking of Google Maps and things like this to identify potential candidates, of which we reach out to and have a direct conversation with.


Andrew  

What are a couple of those hotspots that you think were were not as prevalent before? COVID? Because I know that Chiang Mai and you know, Bali and some of those places, where were some of the hotspots prior to the pandemic, but now that the pandemic is has mobilized people to say, Okay, I will work from anywhere. I'm looking for a new place. If you were to pick a couple of cities, what are the first two that come to your mind?


Mark  

Really, really interesting conversation? You're right, Asia is still very conservative. A lot of the countries are locked down or opening slower than Europe and the US. So places that have taken off. Certainly you've seen Madeira, Madeira Island, Portugal, very close to Cabo Verde, which you're mentioning, Andrew in your opening. Cabo Verde is just started marketing themselves into this arena. They tried to catch up and follow the assisted island of Madeira, but Madera has done particularly well. Maybe just to some extent, taking some business away from Lisbon and Porto the traditional areas the same time, the mainland of Portugal sort of grown a lot in price in the last 12 months, maybe 30-40-50% increase in pricing that we've seen in two years, for instance, Bansko in Bulgaria, where there was two years ago, there was a couple of co working spaces today, there are now seven. Arguably when I was there, up to 500 nomads just in this town of 10,000 people on a semi regular basis. Ukraine has actually opened up a little bit more. Colombia down in Central America is another one of those hotspots a lot of people in Mexico but Mexico has been quite a popular place for a long time for a US based remote workers. So don't think they've actually grown too much but Colombia for instance, is opened up. And then you've got your whole visa related business related islands that Panama and the Bahamas and things like that which are pushing through very nicely for that US based remote worker, nomad.


Allen  

So Mark, we have a whole continuum of listeners I've got folks that aspire to be a digital nomad or Nomad. I've we have other folks that we know that are, this is their lifestyle. It for those who are listening that are not they're in their home country, they want to start this experience, is there a couple locations that you would say would be the easiest place? The most comfortable place? Perhaps for somebody to go to Nomad Stays and go if you were going for the first time, what couple locations might you look at that would make an easy start for some of these people who want to start their journey?


Mark  

Well, I guess if you stick you got a couple of choices here. Western the more Western countries tend to be more developed and easier. Countries with your own language, obviously, a little bit easier to get get into. Countries that are not too expensive to get into. So you know Bulgaria is in Romania. Couple of amazing places high levels of English, high levels of community in terms of digital nomads and workers and tech tech people. Greece is starting to pop through as well, they've got one of these other countries with a nomad sort of visa kicking in. Again, high levels of English, Portugal, also high levels of English. So I'm talking about Europe. And largely because Europe is one, it's been the centre of the world's travel industry for many years. And also, because of the EU been one of the easiest to travel during this COVID effected pandemic period.


Allen  

It's interesting to me, because that is so helpful. I mean, but some of the locations you mentioned, I would never have thought of, I would never thought of Bulgaria that but that's, that's a good, that's a great eye opener on that. And then, of course, we've got others who say, I want the adventure of a lifetime, I want to go somewhere that, you know, is off the beaten track that, you know, you know, seems like it's an amazing adventure, you have a couple locations there that may have just opened up or that you felt is more for the hardy traveler that they should look at those properties. I mean, I'll be honest with you, I thought Jordan was a really easy journey. And everybody thought it was so amazing. For the Jordan. I'm like, it's not it's actually really, you know, quite quite easy to get around.


Mark  

Because this is the difference between what you read in the media in what you experience when you go traveling. You know, the first time I went to Rwanda I'm expecting a third world country and I'm kidding a first world country leading in drones and drone deliveries and adventure and tech and oh my god, how did I get that so wrong. And when I go adventure is often on the back of a motorbike or a hot air balloon. So you know, 


Andrew  

Do tell do tell, you know, your favourite stories of you know, mudmapping in Australia, your own country all the way to Silk Road and other things tell us


Mark  

this latte Android, I mean, to say I was I was out in the middle of the Sahara there back 12-13 years ago, your tour of the most amazing parts of the world. And you know, we've been tracked by gorillas and and you know, what became terrorists. And then next minute Gaddafi was still around, he decided to hold a festivals, we popped back into a city and got adopted by the head of security in shake taken through these private areas, work it off, he's talking and so that's one of them. You mentioned South Africa. I was standing next to one of the former presidents there for a while there in South Africa, one of my business trips, which is really quite a fascinating activity. You know, I by chance, looked at the weather while robbing the motorbike in Sweden a couple of years ago and said, Oh, this big warmer up in the Arctic Circle, so I'll turn left and went to the Arctic Circle on my motorbike. I never expected to do that. But these sorts of adventures are everywhere. So we've just opened up a property just got a property coming online in Kyrgyzstan for instance, out on one of the lakes outside of Bishkek. So I flew into Bishkek as part of my Silk Road journey a few years ago, and I had a week to organize some visas and wait for travel colleague and I went out to the Chinese border and stayed with families that, you know, been lined up by the receptionist at my Bishkek hotel and discovered areas out there, very gentle, very nice people. Not overly expensive, certainly not touristy, but you know, there's no real significant risk factors out there. And people are very good run around the world. Just because you haven't been there or have known anybody that's been there in the past doesn't stop you to going exploring.


Andrew  

Right. And Wi Fi is reliable and not that expensive. And Kyrgyzstan, isn't it? In major cities?


Mark  

No, no problem. You again, you sort of travel with backups, you know, we've just looked at a property now. We're going to rent for a month, and they don't have any cable, but we've got a router with it. So we'll just put 20 euros worth of unlimited data into a 4g router and we'll be online we have no problems with phones out in Kyrgyzstan. And to be honest, I've sat in the middle of the part of the desert in Australia and watch Netflix because the the internet signal was better there than what it is in the centre of the city sometimes. You know, internet's actually not too hard. These days, you might have to look around. You might have to in some towns like up in Agadez in Niger, you want to go to a co working space rather than a hotel. So your your time zones for working are a little bit affected. You know, you might not be getting on the phone at two o'clock in the morning to call a client back in your home country.


Andrew  

That reminds me something mark. If if someone's listening to this thinking, Okay, I like all what I hear I haven't done this yet, but I'm, I'm thinking as possible now the their job allows them to do so how would someone how would you guide someone to find a coworking space, if their hotel is doesn't have the thickness walls and or they're not in an apartment where they can sit at the dining room table and work at whatever hour they need to, how would they find a coworking space? 


Mark  

Well, they're going to, obviously this is a critical component of the lifestyle. So we've added it into Nomad Stays, we have about 500 coworking sites listed on our platform today. And we purposely target properties near coworking spaces and vice versa. We've We've got them highlighted on a map. So when you're looking at a property and looking at the map, you'll see where the nearest coworking sites are. And what's happening is in the marketplace properties are changing, the the level of innovation kicking in as the markets changing, coming out of this sort of COVID affected world. So hotels are opening up their own coworking spaces, they're putting in secondary screens, they're putting in telephone booths, they're enhancing the soundproofing of different walls and rooms that restaurants which are difficult area being morphed into work areas now. So we're seeing quite a lot of that around many parts of the world.


Allen  

It's interesting, because that's one of the big questions we get. We're trying to also build community, with our customers is, you know, I'm excited about going overseas, I'm going to have great Wi Fi, I'm going to stay at Nomad Stays for a couple weeks, but I want to meet some folks to travel with and hang out with in coworking spaces are so important, and maybe some people that I'll travel with, but I'll mention just as an aside, when I've traveled globally and I'm with Australians, I tend to have the best time, I don't know. Could you help us out culturally, what makes you guys and gals so great to travel with beyond you enjoy beer, like I do, most of Australia, but there's something great about the spirit that that you bring and your Australian cohorts, New Zealand to including them fantastic people to travel with.


Mark  

Yeah, I think relatively small population countries like New Zealand, Australia, Pacific islands, there's a natural tendency to be relatively friendly, and you don't have a general supply of stuff. So you're going to try harder for a lot of everyday sorts of matters. And, and that just means you're become a little bit more adventurous. Australia being 25 million people is the same physical size as continental US. So that means everybody is spread out along the way. There's not a lot of people to call upon. And so you tend to rely on the neighbors, your friendships, the town's a lot more than when they're in commercial systems to supply you with items and so forth. So I think that's sort of permeate through these these cultures, this level of adventure, this level of curiosity. Again, it's relatively more difficult, more expensive for Australians to go travel the world because there's such a long way away from everywhere. So you know, you don't get a $50 flight to the next country from Australia. So people tend to travel less but more intensively. And so they, they go for longer, and, and they got to see more they want to catch all of the world so they used to traveling long distances and long hours. So you just sort of become your natural traveler I guess once you're in Australia.


Andrew  

Do you think that people should stay longer in don't destinations they go to? And if so, how long do you think they should stay in a city?


Mark  

It's an interesting one, Andrew. The it depends on personalities a lot. There is a growth in effectively an expat market. People that are staying for a year at a time as arranged Nomad visas you mentioning that allow you to stay 6-12 months at a time. But they're not really travelers. And there are other people that like to travel every month. They might change countries every month because they're, they're getting the effects of something new. I guess what we tend to find is that most more established nomads will stay in a country two to three months at a time. They may move within that country to experience different cultures in differents parts of that country. But the whole idea is to dig below the surface to understand what makes this place tick. It's not the glossy marketing, tourism veneer, it's actually making connections with people. And the longer you stay, and the more open you are to both putting yourself out there and making conversation with people, the quicker you get established. And I guess that's one of the tricks long term travelers have found themselves doing. You know, we were down the pub last night, we ran into a kiwi, here in Europe hadn't spoken to Australians or Kiwis for while the pandemics have pretty much shut those countries for couple of years now. And sure enough, we've, we've, we've fallen back into our old language or our culture. Next month, we've been introduced to the owner of the hotel who've introduced us to another remote worker, chief operating officer for a software company out of Germany. And okay, so we've just gone and explored another apartments to bring on board with we're swapping some technology, supply issue criteria, tax related issues, you know, it's under the conversation is deep, and we're engaged with the community, by chance, that its not really much chance we typically meant to try and find people of a like mind.


Allen  

And, of course, you know, the number one success factor I seem to see and people who travel is that adventurous spirit and intellectual curiosity. Yes. You know, the folks, as we call it in the US, maybe you say to say these folks who want to get out of the bubble? You know, you're not staying at the Ritz Carlton when in that city you're, you're getting out into into culture on that. And with that, it leads to a question we ask all of our guests that we get really enlightening answers. You know, for the folks listening today, could you share an overlook person, place or experience, you would suggest our listeners discover? I know, you've given us a few things already but we're still we're going real deep here. But we'd love something that's overlooked, in your opinion.


Mark  

While the Pacific Islands are really quite amazing places, and Central Asia, often overlooked, but the cultural depth of these what were mega cities in the Middle Ages along the Silk Road, certainly worthwhile exploring. Russia is such an amazing mixture of places that many people haven't, haven't visited, it's relatively hard from a visa perspective, or has been put the such cultural depth there, let alone art and music and things that are so different than what you might see on the television. It actually doesn't matter where you are, you can stay in your own country, and find these pockets of amazing culture and community and landscapes and nature, whatever your vente is. sports activities. It's all there but you've got to go looking. And so this is where this curiosity kicks in, it becomes a motivating factor. Oh, I haven't been down this road. I haven't been to this country. I haven't been to this town. But for me, I'd love I can't wait to go back and do more of Russia and Central Asia. I also want to get to Antarctica as the last continent for me and I'm looking to find a way to open up a Nomad Stays in Antarctica.


Allen  

So where can people learn more about Nomad Stays, it's really to me, it I've looked at the website and more about yourself too. It's it's such an opportunity for you out there, listening folks, that to go stay somewhere for that period of time to really have a greater understanding. I know Andrew, you and I, I think we're going to avail ourselves a remote work experience, hopefully sooner rather than later where we go stay and go for a month somewhere interesting. And why wait, you're coming to Russia spot on. It's I went to St. Petersburg, but you're right the visa process where they need to know every family member you've ever had that may have touched Russia but it's worth it worth the effort in a year we'd love it love to hear where people can learn more about Nomad Stays and yourself.


Mark  

Like I said Nomad stays is a online portal when you'll find us at NomadStays.co The the co is an important part because it's sort of implying the cooperation and the community component of what we're doing. So NomadStays.co ou'll find us all over the web, all on social, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, we've got stories, we've got business, we've got tax, we've got ambassadors spreading around the world with we've got all the mechanisms to help make your lifestyle a lot easier as you go traveling and make a softer landing when you arrive in a strange country.


Allen  

Fantastic. Well, thank you, I really, really appreciate your comments that are a really big learning experience. Andrew, we always like to take it away with what you've learned today. Share.


Andrew  

you know, that last bit when when Mark was sharing about even finding it in your home country reminds me of traveling with you, Allen and discovering a public tennis court area in Wilmington, Delaware. And, you know, it took me back to helping an Argentine friend that landed in Rio when I was spending time there. Because there's like, I wish I could play tennis. And I was like, Well, I know where and some great clay courts that were well maintained. Sure it was for a nice price, but very close to this house that he didn't know existed. Just right there. And just finding those things that you're passionate about. And just having your eyes wide open. Getting off, getting out, going down that that road that you've never discovered, I'm actually doing that this afternoon, because I'm a friend visiting when you have to have someone visiting you, you often see through different eyes. When you go to a place that you're you've been over and over and you get to show someone else you see things that you haven't seen. So his statement there kind of fueled that thought within me of okay, that's that's got to be reawakened within me. Go down that dirt road. See what's there.


Allen  

And you know, Andrew, you touched upon some else and Mark did too is when you travel with people you like people that make you laugh, people are adventurous, it makes even the most mundane day exceptional. And sometimes you go down that dirt path and you find absolutely nothing but a dirt path that hits a dead end. But then you laugh about it together because you have that time together. So you know we've talked a bit about people travel fast, people travel slower take their time. I think what's great that we see here is if you go somewhere and you stay a little longer, you can savor the experience, meet more people and really have a greater understanding of the different cultures so fantastic. Fantastic conversation today. So to our Nomad audience, we we hope you share this with others. We would love it if you led left a great review. Please travel safe, stay in touch. And we we appreciate your listening today. All the best Cheers.