The New Nomad

Going Global to Rewirement, not Retirement with Doreen Cumberford | TNN54

May 02, 2022 Andrew Jernigan and Allen Koski Episode 54
The New Nomad
Going Global to Rewirement, not Retirement with Doreen Cumberford | TNN54
Show Notes Transcript

Retirement is bliss for some people. It’s a common notion that retirement equates to chill days by the beach, traveling in a camper van and visiting interesting places, or just having fun every day with family and friends. But for some people, rewiring is better. It’s a change of mindset that results in new adventures and eliminates the boredom of being retired. Doreen Cumberford, a coach, writer, and speaker can attest to the thrill of being in the state of rewirement.

In this episode of The New Nomad, Doreen joins our hosts, Andrew Jernigan and Allen Koski in an adventure-filled conversation about the perks of rewiring vs retiring. They talked about how ex-pats affect culture and how they can help other people wherever they go (while earning some extra bucks too). Why retire when you’re not tired? When you’re used to being on adventures, there’s no retiring from it. You just simply go to the next adventure where your feet or your budget will take you. So tune in to this week’s conversation and I’m sure that the concept of rewiring would entice you.


[1:05] Being mentally homeless is not a bad thing

[5:41] If you're not tired, why would you retire?

[13:49] Expats change a place's culture

[15:18] Home goes with us as Digital Nomads

[17:51] Make sure that your home and pets are taken care off

[23:15] Travel while you can


GUEST BIO:

A native of Scotland, Doreen Cumberford worked for the British Government in London and Cameroon in the mid-1970s, then an American corporation in Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates immediately after. She has been an entrepreneur, coach, writer, and speaker while traveling these last four decades. Doreen has lived in seven countries on four continents, including the Middle East for 18 years. Doreen coaches, speaks, and writes about using travel as a tool for transformation, together with the necessary mindset to process international transitions and constant travel with ease and grace.



Doreen Cumberford Links:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/doreenmcumberford
Website: doreenmcumberford.com
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/RockYourReentry/ 


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Instagram: @insurednomads

www.insurednomads.com

Allen  

Hello and welcome to The New Nomad podcast. Doreen Cumberford will join us today. She's an author, a coach, she's a person who will really will share some tips on people returning from assignment, returning, or reentry back into their their home environment, but also other environments, we're gonna go a lot of different directions on this. You know, Andrew, you as somebody who has lived in many different locations, and then you move to a different location. What's your feeling when you return back to what you might be considering, and I'll say this in parentheses, home or where, where you expect people to at least ask you, Hey, how was those last four years in Ghana? I mean, how is that for you?


Andrew  

You know, it's, it's interesting. Just yesterday, I was messaging Sven, one of one of our advisors, and insured nomads, because he had gone from Singapore back to Australia for a few days. And I asked him, Are you back home? And it's that question of, once you've been in this life a while you're mentally you're forever homeless. And I say that, uniquely, I've never said that before. But as I hear it, I think, you know, being forever homeless is a good thing in my mind. Because I've done enough transitions to and from my home country, that is no longer home. I see the world from a different view. And that's one of the reasons I've been in Clubhouse group panels with Doreen, I've been and Facebook Lives with Doreen. I think I met her years ago in DC at the families and global transition conference back in 2015. And, and I know, they had another one here in March of this year. But it's, it's gonna be fun to hear her perspectives on this as she's raised kids around the world. I think she's still living this, this international lifestyle and aiding others in it. So sorry, I know that was a lengthy question. I'm glad everybody has joined us again this week for The New Nomad. Because we bring in some of the most intelligent guest to hear their perspectives, learn from them and laugh with them. So I think we're gonna have all that today.


Allen  

Fantastic. Well, first off, mentally homeless, I put that down. That might be something you might want to trademark Andrew. Later,


Andrew  

yes, I'm getting therapy for it.


Allen  

getting therapy for it. Good, good way of putting it during before we get too far afield. Let's bring you into the conversation and and if you could share a bit of your background and your perspective on the location, independent lifestyle, and the issues that you've been coaching and helping people with.


Doreen  

So one of the things it's lovely to be here today, guys, it's really delightful to be able to see you and hear you and enter into this conversation and have fun together like this. My perspective is very different right now. Because I believe that it's not where we go that counts. It's who we become in the process that matters. And that is one of the basic values that I follow. Now, Andrew, I don't think you're aware of this. But after being an expat for 30 something years, I expatriated or repatriated back to the US. I was never originally a citizen. I was born in Scotland, but I became a citizen when I was living in Japan. I became a citizen of the US from Japan. So I returned to the US thinking it was repatriation 11 years ago. Well, here's the big news. This is big reveal haven't shared this too widely. But after living in the US or out in in the US for the last 11 years, my team my third culture kid husband, and former military officer, and global Nomad, he and I have decided that we are moving to Mexico permanently in our retirement. And essentially, it's because we don't feel we are a good fit for the American culture right now. And we can serve better from another culture. So after a lot of wrangling, it's Mexico.


Andrew  

I was wishing there were sound effects that where we could do all kinds of drum rolls.


Doreen  

Mariachi.


Andrew  

 and different things here. mariachi is yes, there we go. Yeah, it's Mexico is one of those countries. I haven't been to yet. How about you Allen? what's your what's your most favourite experience in Mexico because I know you've been there. I'll take that back to you. And what's


Allen  

it my favourite spirits is just watching whales. We did whale watching down in Mexico. And it's a wonderful place and yields in interesting. Andrew in Green has many people on this podcast, have decided to move to Mexico for many different reasons. So can you could you share with us as you did that calculus? Yeah, because I'm sure you had a lot of choices. How did you come up with Mexico, but also the process in which you did your negotiation or understanding of where you're going?


Doreen  

And that's what I'm building right now is a course on how to figure out how to rewire yourself to a new culture in retirement. So if you're not tired, why would you retire? So this is a matter of rewiring yourself mentally, physically and spiritually into a new existence. And so a lot of our processes were. We saw our kids more when we lived in Saudi Arabia, and they were either a boarding school or living in the US. Because we had a very high intention to travel home every year and connect. And we don't is,we certainly haven't had that privilege over the last two years. But we've decided that for our mental health, our place in the world, and what we want to create in the latter years of our retirement is a life that is more sustainable, living closer to close to nature, in a great environment with wonderful weather, in a culture that we don't fully understand and don't even speak the language terribly well. Because we're more accustomed to that as let's say serial nomads or serial expats, we got used to not understanding everything, and there's a certain wonder about living in that space.


Allen  

You keeps you intellectually probably alert and engaged. I mean, as you're learning a new language, new culture, new museums, new food, but you said a word. And I'm wondering if this is your word, or word that community should know is I love it instead of retirement rewirement, I think that's marvellous. Could you expound upon that?


Doreen  

Yes. When we have, I discovered the idea of rewiring about 13 years ago prior to leaving Saudi but someone had already trademarked it. So I didn't want to write the book on that. However, I'm still talking about it. So I am going to write a book on that. And it's, it's really about recreating your life in a more creative, interesting lane, than many people have lived in their normal life. Look at all the people in America or the UK, or Australia, who have worked for decades, and have lived in possibly the same country or the if not the same city for decades. And they've never had an opportunity to create their own unique adventure, or give their unique or irrepeatable mission to the world.


Andrew  

Wow, that's interesting. You know, Doreen, sorry, sorry, there was maybe a slight lapse, but my mind is running with this because we are people filled with energy, energy and electricity flows through wires. And as we consider being rewired versus tired again, retired. That means that we have a new energy flowing through us with this new wiring that we're allowing ourselves to, to face in the different season. And I think that many people think, okay, I'll retire to Costa Rica, I'll retire to Czech Republic. So they're waiting for that Sunday. But now with the work from anywhere, many people have the freedom to go ahead and go, instead of waiting another 15 years, to where they can sell their house and go or waiting to retire. Versus just saying, No, I'm going to flip the page. I'm going to resign and rebuild my life. That's what I'm hearing. You're saying, isn't that something along that


Doreen  

line? That's very true. And, you know, we've been doing international pet sitting around the world, particularly in Europe, Canada and Mexico for six years. And we meet people all the time who are doing this. I think that people have a sense of longing. We all have a sense of longing. And people who are moving into retirement, usually long for a certain set of circumstances. But now they're being given permission by government, society, corporate lifestyles, and the autonomy that they can now have. And so in the midst of that, they are going, Wow, I have choices. After all, they didn't know they had choices before. But they're waking up to the choice that is actually available to them. In the form of recreating and rewiring, it's not, it's not just your physical body that changes every year, your mental and your physical, your emotional health goes along with it. And so it's a big job to take on. But I think it's one of the most thrilling important pieces that we can take to build humanity nowadays.


Allen  

Are you planning to, you know, change locations every 2,3,4,5 years? Or are you planning to permanently be in Mexico? Or is that undecided at this time, because I was thinking as you're rewiring, I could see somebody who has a typical retirement of 20 to 30 years. If you're visiting or living somewhere for two years, you could live in 10 different countries. You know, frankly, if you live 27,28 years, you could hit all the digital nomad visa countries and have quite an existence on that helped me out with this.


Doreen  

Well, I think that that is true. But for us, personally, we, my husband has is in his 70s in his mid 70s. And I'm in my 60s. And you know, when you look at your potential lifespan, and what you want to do with it, and where you want to create it. And if you believe if you have, you know, no limited beliefs and believe you can be anywhere. It's a simple matter of making a choice. I know people who have done this, who have gone to one country a year for maybe 10 years, I personally have a longing to have a home base, probably more than my husband does. And so our home base has been Denver for seven or eight years. However, we've actually only been in the house a total of maybe two to three of that time because we've been roaming. And we feel like we wanted to connect to a sophisticated sense of culture and learn a language and really give ourselves to that process. And we haven't spent much time in South America. So this is kind of our home base is moving. And we're going to focus on this side of the world. And we're still close to our kids, which is a wonderful gift.


Allen  

Is there a community waiting for you there that you've already picked out.


Doreen  

Oh, absolutely. During COVID we were stuck in San Miguel de Allende for seven months, then four, then we went back for four months. And we've just left after another for. And San Miguel has a history of expatriates flying in and actually partnering well, to build a third identity and to build institutions, and to feed the homeless and to give back to the people who live on the Campo. So there's actually a history of a successful partnership, which does not exist everywhere. Frequently, the injection of expats changes the culture, as you know, and then it morphs into something different. But that has not happened in San Miguel. So that's what one of the reasons we chose it and the and the weather is perfect. It's the highlands of Mexico is what I call it.


Andrew  

Well, so Doreen, tell me you've written a book as well. Can you tell us a bit about that? Why why you wrote it what it's about. Tell us more.


Doreen  

Are you talking about my current book, Andrew?


Andrew  

Actually, I had my mind on something that came out of the deserts, but do tell you have another book coming? You have another one, don't you?


Doreen  

I am the author of Life in the Camel Lane based on 15 years in Saudi Arabia. And I have also been one of the authors of Arriving Well, which is coming home after you've lived overseas and you've had your nomadic journey, how that process goes quite how you want to prepare yourself and what it looks like. And now I either consider over the last 10 years of repatriation as a massive success, or an abysmal failure, and maybe both at once. And riding home again home again, jiggity jig. So home goes with us, right?


Allen  

That's right. Well, well, like what I think what you said earlier on is, you know, who we become is what matters. So I take it in these in the different books that you're kind of explaining that transformation that you pick up in each location. So maybe if you could take us through each book, maybe just quickly? And is there a general change from your perspective, when you wrote your first book Life in the Camel Lane to what you're at now? And maybe some of the learnings for our audience?


Doreen  

Yes, definitely. Life in the Camel Lane was based on the stories of about 60 women that I interviewed while I after I left there. And it was it was stories about what did we learn? How did it change us? How did it change our worldview? And why does that matter. And then the next book, in Arriving Well was about the process of morphing your life and taking your invisible side of yourself of your nature, your six mental faculties, and how you had to reorient them to a new experience, which is another major transformation. And in this new book that I'm going to put out in the next year, it's called Home Again, Home Again, jiggity jig, and it's basically how to have joy and fun along the way, no matter whether you stay or not.


Allen  

That's tremendous. You mentioned something earlier that caught my attention to maybe it passed by too quick. But you mentioned you've been doing some international pet sitting. Yes. Can you explain that? And by the way, as somebody who's got a dog sitting probably three feet from me, Andrews probably in the same boat, a dog's sitting 3 feet feet. Can you explain to our audience because I'm sure there's gonna be some people will be like, that sounds really interesting. That's something really cool. Help us understand that.


Doreen  

Yes. So after my husband retired, we still wanted to do a little traveling, and my family's from Scotland. So I wanted to go back and see my dad, I found a service called Trusted House Sitters, and there are many platforms online. And I recently recorded 10 short videos of how to become a pet sitter. So I got these people in and we had diplomats from New Zealand, and we had retired engineers, and this couple would show up at our house, they would drive our car, live in our house and take care of our pets. Now, as expats, we understood what a difference it makes in your mental health when you know that home is taken care of. And so one day I looked at my husband, I said, you think we could do this? Could we do this? And so we started in 2016. And the first one was in Scotland, I wanted to see my dad. And we went ahead and took care of two dogs in the border country of Scotland, which was a foreign culture, even as a Scot to me. And we've actually been to 10 countries. And we've sat mostly for expats, not always mostly expats, and we've taken care of about 52 dogs and 40 Something cats at this point. And we've lived in stately mansions right now we're in this heavenly home in Puerto Vallarta in my in Mexico. And we've actually stayed in straw bale houses and all across the board, every architectural perspective, you could imagine it is like you just dive down the rabbit hole. And it's been it's been a wonderful way to travel and support the nomadic lifestyle


Andrew  

that's, that's just so fascinating. And I know so many people have and it's you have information on it on your site, I believe so those will be in some of the notes but it's trustedhousesitters.com And we'll put the link there but go for it Dorren. 


Doreen  

I have a group online called Life in the house sitting lane. So Facebook is on Facebook. Yeah.


Allen  

So this I mean, you know, when you talk about requirements, this is really cool because you're you're not only interacting a different culture, you're interacting with a pet, you're in a unique house. You probably the neighbours are like who are these people at this house with is these pets right now? You beat them I think that's absolutely tremendous. And you probably meet some incredible people along the lines of that. That what you know of the different places that you've you've pet sat, is there a particular location that sticks out in your mind, that was an interesting story, or an interesting pet that you had some weird, strange stuff with.


Doreen  

They're all interesting, and they're all different. And that is a book for done way down, like in another five years. You know, that is, that is another experience. But the experience that stands out for me is Brussels, the City of Brussels. We went there to sit for a diplomat, couple who work in senior management of the European Union. She is one of the interpreters speaks about eight languages, and is a Brit married to us as a Spanish fellow. And they both work for the European Union. So we got to go to the European Union and study it in depth while we were there, which was fun. They went to I believe, Peru on that vacation with their two children. And they were gone over a month. And we lived in their five storey sort of row house tenement type house, which was fascinating. We had a dog called Patchy and Patchy was a great big, he was about 90 pounds at that point. And he was only 11 months old. So he was a crazy Australian Shepherd puppy, who my husband tried to exhaust every day, we would go to the Royal Parks down the street to walk and we throw the frisbee for the dog and we could not exhaust that dog. And we do like three to five to six miles a day. There was no exhausting Patchy, he was big, and he was still a puppy and didn't understand he was a puppy. That was one of the most culturally interesting experiences for me, because Brussels is so diverse. And we must have come in touch with maybe like 30,40,60 different nationalities just by sitting on the trams with people.


Allen  

And then you have to go to the parks and a dog parks where we go you meet so many different people. Yeah. And, you know, that's, that's just absolutely incredible. On that, which brings me up to the question that we asked our guests, and I think you'll probably that almost was a story that would have knocked it right out of the park on its own. Could you share with our audience a maybe an overlooked person, place or experience that you would suggest they discover and of course, you've already put one out there with international pet sitting but something different or distinct to a place that you say to yourself, you know, what, people should reinvestigate this?


Doreen  

Huh? Well, can I back it up to 30,000 feet and be very general?


Allen  

Yes, 


Doreen  

I, I believe that the experience of travel can be so much more powerful and can be so much more transformative when we get really clear on a purpose for the travel. And so I would recommend to people that if you have an inkling or you have a longing to go somewhere that you listen to it. Because you know, we don't know, there's no day that is promised at this point. And there's no place that may be in existence for much for any longer. We are very, very fragile humans. And if you have a longing to go somewhere, and I would say, do what you can to expand your circle and expand, get out of your comfort zone. Because only by getting out of your comfort zone and being really uncomfortable is where we learn and where we grow. And even yesterday in Puerto Vallarta, do you want to go there, I walked down 130 steps to get to the romantic zone to go shopping to buy bread from a Danish guy who built a bakery here, and then to walk next door and ask directions from a British woman and then to have dinner last night with an American. I mean, if you really want to experience the world, get out of your country and go somewhere different and just walk in fact, Ralph, I found this great quote Ralph Potts said, If in doubt, walk until your day becomes interesting. End of story.


Andrew  

Wow, that's That's so good. Doreen. It's it's, it's always a joy to hear you share and I look forward to the next time that we get to have you on it's, you know, I was thinking about you Puerto Vallarta. Walking to Yes. Walking to to a danish pastry bakery. And did you know that danishes the pastry are not really from Denmark. They were made by Austrian expats in Denmark and we call them Danishes. That's so expats have power around the world, including those Danish pastries that aren't from Denmark. So during where can we learn more about you? Where is the number one place we should go? And then maybe share some number two, number three, but you know, we'll share these things in the show notes. But if someone's listening on their phone right now, and they're gonna switch and open a tab, where should they go?


Doreen  

Oh, come to life in the travel lane. It's on Facebook. It's a Facebook group. And also, I have a website doreenmcumberford.com. And I'm hoping to grow my LinkedIn. So if you're on LinkedIn, and you'd love to connect about the intercultural lifestyle, and what it can possibly offer you, in order of helping you get more juice out of your life, then you can find me in those places.


Allen  

Fantastic, great conversation today. So So what have we learned today? Learned a lot. Rewirement. I'm gonna I'm gonna take that with me. International petsitting tremendous. And that Andrew and I are both mentally homeless. And you can take that as you wish you could put that conversation out there on many different directions. But a very good call there. How about yourself, Andrew?


Andrew  

Yeah, that's, that's my biggest takeaway is that after leaving pieces of me in different countries, after taking pieces of other other experiences away as I leave those places, I am probably homeless, mentally homeless. That is one of my biggest takeaways and, and that is, you know, as I rewire my processes that's part of my my process of learning every day. Thank you, Doreen for bringing that to our attention again, that we must be rewiring.


Doreen  

You're welcome. And thank you for having me. This was fun.


Allen  

You bet. So to our audience, nomads please continue to travel safely. Every week. We have a great conversation like this. We'd love to hear from you again. Who knows what else you'll hear on The New Nomad podcast learned about danishes too today. So it's fantastic, having Doreen and Andrew with us today. So thank you again and enjoy your travels.