The New Nomad

Let's Demystify Global Migration with Relocate.world with Jurgen Pretsch | TNN55

May 09, 2022 Andrew Jernigan and Allen Koski Episode 55
The New Nomad
Let's Demystify Global Migration with Relocate.world with Jurgen Pretsch | TNN55
Show Notes Transcript

Moving abroad is a major life event for anyone who is brave enough - and lucky enough - to take the leap. While being an expat is exciting, fun, and eventful, it can also be challenging. From making friends to figuring out where to buy groceries, the difficulties of living in a foreign country can feel insurmountable at times. It is definitely hard, but not impossible. Relocate, a global marketplace for expatriates and digital nomads helps people plan, execute, and thrive in their decision of moving abroad.

Jurgen Pretsch, the co-founder of Relocate, joins our hosts Andrew Jernigan and Allen Koski in another knowledge filled episode of The New Nomad. They talked about the excitement and the challenges that moving abroad brings and how you can make it easier for yourself if you get help from experts. While relocating abroad is not for everyone, it’s something you should be proud of and enjoy. And remember: these difficulties of living in a foreign country are all easy to overcome, and none of them last forever.


[7:24] When you finally find "Home"

[9:32] Meeting the needs of the modern traveler

[15:08] The challenges of relocation

[20:02] The benefits of slow traveling

[25:29] Working together to make travel better

[28:15] Relocation does change you



GUEST BIO:

Jurgen Pretsch is a success-driven serial entrepreneur and serial ex-pat. Co-Founder of Relocate, a global marketplace for expatriates and digital nomads, connecting LegalTech and TravelTech. He is a professional researcher and consultant, but first and foremost, he is a "serial expat" and contemporary "digital nomad". Having lived in nearly a dozen countries, Jürgen has produced extensive research for major private institutions and governments. At the moment, Jürgen is pioneering work relating to expatpreneurship and will continue to provide resourceful articles in the global mobility space.


Jurgen Pretsch Links:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jürgen-pretsch-erc
Company Website: realex.info/
Website: experience-research.at/


Follow Insured Nomads at:

Instagram: @insurednomads

www.insurednomads.com

Allen  

Hello and welcome to another episode of The New Nomad podcast. Jurgen Pretsch, founder, CEO of Relocate is with us today. This is gonna be extremely interesting. By the way, as you look at the video, as he looks completely relaxed, he will share where he is today. And if you look at Andrew and myself, we're in Philadelphia and Delaware, and we look quite a bit different and a lot less relaxed. So we'll have some conversations about great places to go, and how we can enjoy ourselves but also, in this location independent lifestyle, he gets the gold star for the day, we do not. Andrew, good to have you aboard today. What's on your mind today? And what would you like to share with our audience before we kick off with Jurgen?


Andrew  

You know, there's so much global movement taking place. And what's on my mind is the you know, we've talked about this before, but so many people are having to deal with immigration aspects, whether they're a refugee right now there, there's so many refugees from different countries, not just you know, Ukraine and Russia and, and the sorts but those that are marrying someone from another nationality, those who've gotten in and then just decided to stay and try to figure out how to how to legally stay. And that's something I've had to jump through hoops quite a few times in my life. So that's what's on my mind. And I think we have one of the best people on our show to kind of explore that. I know David, one of the other team members, one of the other founders at Relocate, has already made a referral for me for an immigration need that I have. So this is gonna be really fun to hear about the work and the places, the people, the Speaker Series events that they have going on, I know that there's so much that we get to hear about today.


Allen  

So let's bring Jurgen in. Jurgen, I had a little bit of introduction, because it's a little bit of jealousy, you're at a much if you could explain where you're at. But also, we'd love to hear how you've gotten to where you are in this world of, you know, location independent lifestyle, and Relocate. Welcome aboard.


Jurgen  

Gladly, and thank you for the introduction, Andrew, it's a pleasure being here. And as you said, I probably look a bit more relaxed today than most people. And I would love to say that this is just because I get to talk to the two of you. But I'm afraid it will be a lie. And I don't like to kick this off with a lie. We keep those for the after-game. The the place that I'm tuning in, there's a little-known island in the middle of the Bahamas. So I'm actually sitting in somewhere in the middle of the ocean. It's nice, it's warm, the weather's good out there. I've already told you guys are keeping me from the beach. But the nice thing about it is and I think this is for many really the dream and I sometimes feel even bad about it that I get to live this dream, while many others can't. But you know how it goes. I am very grateful to have this opportunity to combine leadership, leading teams, multiple teams all across the world, most of them living in less fun places honestly, while taking sometimes calls with clients, with my feet in the sand, my feet in the water. And it's been a long travel. It's been a tough travel and like to think that I'm rewarding myself by doing this. However, to preface this you know it always sounds like when you tell somebody you live in the Bahamas, right? People think you're riding around there and a golf cart and a nice Bentley going through some resort or wherever things fancy and nice and cleaned up and so on. It is the most amazing place that I've ever been to because it's exactly not like this. You don't see Bentley's driving around to really the streets wouldn't allow them to do so because they would just fall apart after like, I don't know a couple of 100 yards, tops. And that's just because Bentley's have great quality right? So I'm driving around the 25-year-old Jeep that I'm renting here. Around once a day electricity goes out and so to all the audience out there, if I'm suddenly vanishing, it's not that I got angry with Allen and Andrew. It's just that electricity went out again. It happens.


Andrew  

So that is not a Bahamian accent. It's more bohemian I think, now, sorry. You're not from the Bahamas. 


Jurgen  

What gave it away?


Andrew

Where are you from? Yes. And well. It's a bit about your story. You're a man of international mystery. Do tell.


Jurgen  

It's been a long journey, a journey. It started off in the town that nobody knows. Nobody remembers even I barely remember it. Somewhere in Central Austria, you know, high up in the map. Athens where it's always cold, you guys probably notice feeling. Sorry for that. Moved when I was 18 and moved out from home and went to the capital city of this little place called Graz, home of Arnold Schwarzenegger. So just, you know, give some shout out there, close personal friend, obviously, kind of ran into him once. And this place was around 30,35 miles from my hometown, right? And remember all the people that I grew up with all the neighbours, all my family, they all back then tell me, you can really, what is it with you? Are you crazy, you're moving to a place too far away, how you're going to deal with the culture down there, and then even met a girl somewhere down there, she left a note even 10 kilometres further south. And people asked me how you're gonna deal with this cultural difference, really. I mean, they speak different down there, they have a completely different lifestyle down there. And, well, I didn't see like this, my journey didn't end in Graz. Then first time was global migration, I still lived there, when the refugee crisis hit Europe when there was like thousands and thousands of refugees coming to Austria to build a new life, you know, when the war in Syria was going on. And I had little company back then I've always been, you know, kind of an entrepreneur, I think it just came natural to me. And we decided we need to make the city safer, and a better place to live. So the idea that we came up with, together with, together with the local cops, actually who would have guessed, is to found a language school for refugees, you know, give them something to do something to learn, they get to learn the language, they get to learn the local communities. And within one point, the local communities get to meet them. And you know, there was so much hostility going on because they suddenly saw, hey, the strangers walking around our streets, and we don't like this. But them having attending school there. And becoming part of the community. We think we did help. We didn't solve the problem, obviously. But we've contributed a bit to it. And from there on, I think my own, migration story started and first with small steps towards neighboring country towards Slovenia, towards Croatia, later on towards Spain, towards Russia, towards the US, and Panama, one of the great places I really love. But somehow, the moment I set foot here on this little island, the Bahamas, I fell in love, you know. Most people would think it's the amazing beaches out there, or the amazing climate, all the things are really good food. But it's not that, it's much more than that. It's the friendliest people I've met in my whole life apart from Andrew, obviously, yes, sorry for that. And this feeling of you know, I think as an expat and as a nomad, you often have this feeling that you don't fully fit in. And I had this feeling even when I was a child living in my own country, I always knew my mind was somewhere already. And on the other side of the ocean, I was set on the horizon. And I think people have made me feel this too, that I don't fully fit in. And the moment you set foot here on this island, you do fit in, you become a part of it, and it becomes a part of you. And I love that.


Allen  

And you can almost tell right away and you It's interesting your story, Jurgen is, and we hear this for many folks is they move from location to location to location, and then there's one that just hits them perfectly. And this is part of the Wanderlust, I think of what we see in this location independent lifestyle. And talk a little bit about how Relocate will help people on that same journey, because it's my understanding, and I've seen it in action. Sometimes people just have many stops before they find the one that's right for them. But those stops, there's paperwork, there's immigration, it's not just like, hey, I'm gonna go keep investigating it to like find my place.


Jurgen  

Unfortunately, unfortunately, we are trying to make it a bit easier. This is actually the cause of action, how I met our CEO, David Cantor, whom I think you both know, until my help all our audience was soon though. We met when I was contemplating moving to the US. He back then was a classical US immigration attorney. And together we figured out that the immigration industry the way it was some two years ago, and the rate for the biggest part still is does not fit the lifestyle of contemporary people who love moving around. And we figured out there needs to be a better way to do things. There needs to be a better way to handle all the legal trouble that you go through. And you need a lot of transparency, to tell you about my own past and how the classic immigration pathway goes. You say I don't know. I'm tired of Pittsburgh. I'm tired of Philadelphia. I'm tired of Austria. So I want to move to Costa Rica, one of our hottest destinations, lots of our clients want to move there for a million reasons. And so the typical ways Okay, You go to google google.com, immigration attorney in Costa Rica, you find one-second result in Google. And you shoot them a mail, set up a short conversation five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes? And it'll tell you, Oh, yes, I would love to work with you really, please send $10,000 over here, the retainer, and I'm going to start working on your case, you feeling good about this? Me personally, I don't.


Allen  

That's stressful. But also 10,000 is a lot of money to start the process.


Jurgen  

Yeah, you might not even need all of it. But you know, there are many practitioners out there who just want to be safe, and say, Okay, we need this just in case something goes up. Because global migration is something life-changing for most individuals. It's incredibly hard from a legal side of you. And I would argue, in our time and age, it did become easier on one side. But it also did become harder on another side, it's hard to because way back when, you know, in the good old days, like three years ago, people still went to a country, and they physically met an attorney. Today, in many cases, this doesn't work anymore. You know, you hire somebody remote, and you work with them, just digitally. And that makes it really hard to build trust. And this is where our idea came in. It's a bit similar to a think the story of many platforms like Airbnb, of course, you can just go to Google and try to book an apartment, somewhere in Panama or Thailand. But let's be honest, neither of us feels comfortable doing so because I need to negotiate with the landlord, you need to send funds around, which is not just about that, it's a lot of money. But also, it's hard. Do you guys know how hard it is to wire money to the US when you're not a US citizen, you don't have a US bank account. It's a nightmare. So you might rely on a platform. 


And this is where Relocate world is coming in. This is what we're trying to provide, you know, a softer landing for expats and nomads to make their life easier. Because we've been there. Because we know how hard the struggle is. And I'm proud to say that we have an amazing, amazing core team. It's one thing, but we have amazing partners. And this is not just you guys from Insured Nomads. This is the 100 attorneys out there that are willing to work with us, and that are giving us great input. And we assure that they will provide solutions that work for experts and nomads, and increasingly complex immigration pathways because they are getting harder and more complex as you move around. So this is where we came from. And we do believe in this because we are all expats ourselves. And I think this is what sets us apart is why we get it. Because we live it for better or for worse. And I mean, you guys know that many hardships with immigration. For example, when you go for a two-week trip to Miami from the Bahamas, and you come back only to find out that the type of visa that you're on, has been suspended and doesn't exist anymore. Right. And suddenly, you're a tourist again, instead of a resident. And you know, it's this kind of situations that offend.


Andrew  

Yep, I've been there. I've been there when people took my passport and came back seven months later, and said, Hey, your passports expired now, but two, we still didn't get your visa for you. And she's like, so now I have I'm really illegal in this country. And so this is such a needed service. And the platform that you guys have built at Relocate is, is so easy to use. And I know there's so many things done in the roadmap, but and it's, we'll share the link in the notes on this episode. But there's this is meeting a need in such a fast-paced, globally mobile world that it has been a gaping hole. So I'm glad to have you want him to share more about it. You're a researcher, but by training and trade, right? So in that line of thought, I'm sure you guys are putting in a lot of study and analysis, of what's needed. How would you say that your research background has been crucial in building Relocate?


Jurgen  

I think it's been one of the most central things. And Andrew of all people in this world you should know because you are the co-author of one of the papers that will be published over the next couple of weeks. I do think it's just a way of thinking that I've been carrying with me for a decade or more already, because I've been first and foremost a researcher, right. Psychologist, trained psychologist most people don't notice about me. So I think for many of our audience out there, this will be an exciting thing to share with everybody. Did you notice guy Jurgen is actually a psychologist then talk to him it sounds dangerous? He might figure out what's wrong with you. So we've always been driven by this, you know, by a need for understanding. And this I think ties into how to run a business because I know there's a lot of talk out there about, let's say, digital leadership and all these things about people and many consultants are proposing, do it like this, do it like that? What are the real hardships of relocation? How can you address them? And I don't believe in talk. I just don't, I'm coming from a quantitative background, you know, big-data-driven, statistics-driven. And I prefer to put data over ideology, you know, to really have an approach that's always driven by this. And we're trying to have this at Relocate by trying to figure out how is relocation changing, which pathways are appearing out there. And these are things deep into our business ethics, too, because this is tied into what I said earlier, migration pathways are changing. And governments cannot even adapt as fast as they are changing. And you run into a million different background problems with this, for example, when you're trying to apply for a new visa, right? And they ask and say, Please bring us down this document from your home country, or give us a document from the last country you've lived in. And you say, well, in the last few years, I've been in three different digital nomad visa, I've lived in five different countries, which one do you want? And the government official just looks at you and says No. Yeah, I've had it a lot happening to me, just this, this, you know, and it works in every language, no. And this is something we're actively working on trying to figure out how nomads can find their way back into a classical life. Because if somebody asks you to bring this certain statement from your home country, but you haven't lived in five years, and you might not even be able to show where you live, because it's been so many places. And this is becoming a huge problem. And I'm trying to actively reach out to expats and nomads in this situation because only they know. And there's so many pathways out there, where people just, you know, fall through the grid. Because, as a council actually, another country, told me a while ago on a phone call, and I had many phone calls with him. And he looked at me when you first met in person, Saudi Arabian, We're terribly sorry. There are no rules for people like you, you're on your own. Because we don't know what to make from you. You know, you don't fit in. You don't work for a company here. You're not employed. You're not in your home country. You're on a strange new type of visa. We don't know what to do with you, please go somewhere else and leave us alone. So I think you need research in order to figure those things out. 


Allen  

Well, you've touched upon the issue with the digital nomad visas, who are trying to streamline that process, governments are trying to make it easier. But they don't necessarily know. And I think that's actually one of the greatest changes in the last few years is these digital nomad visas. Because in the past, think about this, if you wanted to be an expatriate worker, you would need a fortune 500 company or some large companies sponsor you. And now you can do this on your own. And this is what I think what's so great about Relocate is I can now self curate, where I want to go work. If there's a digital nomad visa there, and I go to you, you're gonna say, Help me get this visa process done. But maybe this question is more this way is right now there's a limited amount of countries have done this. Do you think more countries are going to continue to pick up on this? And post-pandemic, do you think this is also going to be something that's going to accelerate? Or was this something that came out of the pandemic, as countries said, I don't have tourists so I would like to at least have digital nomads working here? I'd love your kind of vision for audience of where this is headed.


Jurgen  

It's an amazing question. You're asking here because it's a question that we are actively working on every day. And you're absolutely right. This came from the pandemic, right? Because they said, Okay, we need new solution. All the cruise ships are not coming in anymore. Obviously, everybody was coming in sick anyways, we all don't want them. I do think it will depend on a lot of things. It will depend on this huge debate that's coming now about will employees have to go back to their offices or not, right? I do think this is my personal and professional opinion that digital nomad visas are here to stay. They will need to evolve because now they're often standing on not the most solid foundation. Right? They're often lacking the legal background. They don't always have it fully figured out. Sometimes this visa is given out by the Ministry of Tourism instead of immigration, leading to big trouble and leading to you coming back from Miami with your visa cancelled. Just a theoretical example. 


I do think it's something that will change and evolve. I think it ties a lot into the debate about sustainable tourism really, because, you know, just chatting to another island or to another place for a three day trip or four week trip. I don't think that's sustainable. Neither in the green sense, talking about emissions of travel and everything, but also not in the Global and social sense. Because slow travel, becoming a part of a community, even if just for a time, I think has a very different impact than thousands tourists coming here to a small community and just changing it and you know, messing it up. And when you look at all the typical old star tourist towns, be it someone to coast in Italy, or be it south beach in Miami, or be it all over the world, they do have a certain vibe to it. And they do now that many of the locals who lived there for generations are not always happy with it. So I do think this slow travel, this digital nomadism is something that will help connect the world a bit more. Because you really have exchange between the people who already live in the place, those who are coming in and, and we're humans tell me something that I really left. Whenever you move on as a nomad, you leave a bit of your heart behind, and this piece of heart is missing for you, right. But at the same time, I do like to think that it also means that you made an impact on local community, and you take place on the part of the local soul with you to fill this gap that's left here. So there will always be a part in me, but heartbeats for Croatia, because I had a really good time there made some really good friendships. And, you know, I think this will change the world. I do hope that this visa type is here to stay. But I also do think that it will adapt and become a bit more professional. It's now a bit days of a wild west, if you want, you know, everybody just made us visas, out of necessity. And they will slowly I think, evolve. 


Andrew  

Yeah, the evolution of immigration, along with the evolution of finance, the evolution of education, of insurance, these things really have been one of the slowest to change in our society. And I think that's immigration that you've tackled, changing credentialing, checking out, making sure that the people that are in your system, or are people that you can recommend the things that you're doing to change the the way immigration can happen, is crucial. In the same same way that we're committed to making sure the way that people are protected for health, wellbeing and safety. And so now finding those people in education and finance and others that are that are shaking things up that are saying, we're in this for the long haul, to make sure things are going to definitely improve for the end user. Because with immigration, you're dealing with governments or insurance and finance you're dealing with with government entities, education is somewhat privatized. So you can legally leave the government school and you still have some government regulations you've got to run through but these are some areas where change is we're at the cusp of radical change when previously to emigrate to a country you had a very limited set of rules to follow, to be able to go there and even other limitations on naturalization. Those are being changed as countries say we don't have enough health care workers, please come here. We don't have enough people to work in the fields. So please come here to do our do our labor, some to a horrible degree of you know the sugarcane fields in Florida to where they've been abusing immigrants for decades from Haiti and and Dominican Republic to harvest the sugarcane in the US. So immigration reform on many sides is luckily shifting I'm so glad Relocate is stepped up to make it accessible for so many people. And what's Can you tell us about the series of events? I know you kicked off one here last month or so a couple of months ago now. In Den Haag in Hague and for the Relocate series. What's that about? And is there another event on the horizon?


Jurgen  

There is another event on the horizon. Actually, we didn't fix the data that will be happening in summer, most likely either in Spain or in Portugal. Both of those destinations being a thing really attractive for many expats and nomads, because it's an easy and very reasonable migration pathway into Europe. For now, what is our series event about? It's about connecting the digital and the real world. Although I don't like this distinction, because I know as we're sitting here together as friends, this is just as real as we would be sitting in the same cafe, right? Still, I would love to share steak with your guys, or at least a cup of coffee. And this is the spirit of the Relocate series, we're trying to connect those things, get practitioners together in different ways and show to make an impact. And as if you had a chance to tune into the series last year is we even bring politicians on, because as you said, and this is a debate that not only us, a group of psychologists and attorneys and businessmen can lead, but we need governments on our side. And I strongly believe, while I, nobody, I think believes more in the visual communication than I do, because I was born by check paid I lived in it. I just sound like a supervillain from Batman, I'm just realizing. But okay, that's a new thing for me. But I do think sometimes reaching out to the real world coming together, even bring politicians to the table to discuss those things, is stuff that brings it further. And we're partnering with companies such as yourself, but one of them was politicians. And with groups that I really respect, like the Digital Nomad Association, in Croatia, I mean, those are the guys and girls that brought the digital nomad visa to Croatia. Right. So they were the ones helping the government to introduce this. And I think for us as a company, it's important to not just be a service provider, while this is what we are first and foremost, but we also really want to change and disrupt the world of migration. And for this, I don't think it's good enough to be the best marketplace out there. But also really actively drive this discussion, drive this discussion in this setting, drive this discussion by really changing the scientific community even right and bringing it out there, what's really happening, because there's still a lot of lacking info about this. And this is the event that we had a couple of weeks ago in The Hague, I think especially with what's going on now in our world, to made aware of The Hague, a thing is a very good place also to start this off, because it's a place that's speaking for peace, and for freedom. So I'm personally very proud that this was our starting point for this series, and a good place to, to move on to new horizons, if you're wanting to bring this world together. And now that we have one more European event planned, and then we will be bringing it to the Latin American world to really foster this exchange with local communities with local politicians, even to show them what's happening out there. The thing, this is a important thing to do.


Allen  

We appreciate it because we want to support that community, we want the community have freer travel, and more people to be able to explore the world. And with this, perhaps you could give our audience a little peek at maybe an overlooked person, place or experience that you think people should explore, that has affected your life or something that you thought was really kind of cool. And you want to share with our audience.


Jurgen  

I would love to and honestly, this is the toughest question that I was worried about. Because it's after a life like this in the middle of a life like this incredibly hard to pinpoint what changes you. And I would think relocation itself, if I would have to change one event, I would always choose relocation itself because no matter where you're going, if you're moving to a neighboring country, or even a neighboring state, if you're in the US, or if you're moving across the Atlantic, it does change you. And I know that as a nomad, you will be at places that you do not fully enjoy, you will come to places where you say, okay, it was an interesting experience, but I don't want to stay. And there's some that will change you and help you evolve. And this very process I've found to be very maturing, and the more I travel, the more I realize that those people who share his passion for travel deepen their heart, I have an easier time working with them, living with them, enjoying life with them. Because relocation, for better or for worse, does change your life every time all over again. And it's so many aspects of it. My personal personally for me, you know, all business aside, the most exciting part about this story most of time is food. I know that sounds like a cliche, but you come to new place and you have these new smells right? You go to the local market, you go to the local street food place and that makes you feel at home immediately and give you this feeling of hey, I arrived right? And so this is something for me is always really life changing every time a new place for a thing might be ready after midnight when you arrive, but you still have to make it to town find one fast food place that's open and local fast food, not McDonald's is something like this, something local, and try it out and make friendships out as you go. And this is life changing every time again.


Andrew  

Well, where can listeners find you? Some people may be just listening on their phone right now and saying, Okay, I want to learn more, I'm going to open a tab on my phone and go connect somehow. I know we're going to have other links, such as your LinkedIn, your Twitter, all those things in the show notes. So if you're listening and just want to scroll down, you can click some of these. But if you're just listening and want to open a tab, what's the one link that you would tell them to go to today?


Jurgen  

Is it cheating, if I say google.com,the best link to go to apart from google.com is relocate.world. relocate.world is the name of it, it's the address of it. And it's the spirit, you will find a lot of content that our team created. But you will also find a lot of content that I personally created that I'm personally working on. We keep updating it and going from there, you will find out everything you need to know about me, maybe even more than you should know. So yeah, go to relocate.world.


Allen  

Fantastic. Well, Jurgen, thank you for joining us today. And we appreciate you taking the time away from the beach. As I said, we're jealous. Andrew, I've learned a lot today. I also am really pleased that Jurgen and Relocate are pushing the same thing we are, which is governments to continue to have these digital nomad visas make it easier for people to have global relocation without having to have a corporate master work through it. I just love this self curating environment that we're all trying to build out there. Your thoughts, Andrew, as we wrap up?


Andrew  

You know, this is the time when these resources are really top of mind for so many people. So I'm really glad to take a deeper dive into this. And the stories that Jurgen shared just makes me want to go read some of these articles. Explore the community they built at Relocate. And so yeah, it's it's, this is not something that we all sit around thinking let's talk to a lawyer every day. But you know, they've made it easy in this niche of law. So, um, yeah, this has been good.


Allen  

Well, thanks everybody today, and I just like to thank our audience for listening and joining us. Please join us next week. We really want your travels to be safe, secure, we'd like you to travel as far and wide as you can. And certainly our conversation today hopefully makes that happen for you. So join us again next week for The New Nomad cheers and travel well.