Phone interviews are just as important as in-person interviews, so adequately preparing for them can influence your success. Many companies use phone calls with candidates who look good on paper to determine if those applicants are ready to move to longer, more in-depth interviews. Actually, with the right approach, phone interviews can be seen as an advantage to interviewees - all you need is super communication skills.
In this episode of The New Nomad, Allen Koski welcomes Paul Bailo, founder and CEO of Phone Interview Pro and professor at Columbia University, in sharing his expertise on why communication is important in everything. They also talked about the future of work and why companies and organizations should adapt to working remotely. So before you go from ecstatic to panicked wondering how in the hell you’re going to knock the interviewer’s socks off, tune in to this week's episode and polish your communications skills to ace the interview you have been waiting for.
[2:48] Work is your friend
[9:27] Prepare yourself for progress in your industry
[15:53] The Big Pause
[21:17] Mindsetting makes your job more worthwhile
[23:53] Hone your strengths, don't dwell on your weaknesses
[30:22] Having great communication skills is a must in today's world
GUEST BIO:
Paul J. Bailo, MBA, MSW, is the founder and CEO of Phone Interview Pro, a service for job seekers who want to perfect their telephone job interviewing skills. After recognizing that the importance of the phone interview is often overlooked, Bailo prompted Phone Interview Pro to create a 250-plus point phone evaluation, previously nonexistent in the career services industry.
Collateral to his business impact, Paul teaches at Columbia University as Adjunct Executive Graduate Professor in Applied Analytics and Digital Marketing, Innovation, and Data Analytics at New York University. He served as an Executive Advisor to the Governments of Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, and Abu Dhabi, as well as the Central Bank of Nigeria and Drexel University. Paul also acquired unique eight US patents.
LINKS:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulbailo/
Oz Digital Consulting: https://followoz.com/
PIP Consulting Group: https://pipconsultinggroup.com/
COVID Survivors for Change: https://covidsurvivorsforchange.org/
Follow Insured Nomads at:
Instagram: @insurednomads
Phone interviews are just as important as in-person interviews, so adequately preparing for them can influence your success. Many companies use phone calls with candidates who look good on paper to determine if those applicants are ready to move to longer, more in-depth interviews. Actually, with the right approach, phone interviews can be seen as an advantage to interviewees - all you need is super communication skills.
In this episode of The New Nomad, Allen Koski welcomes Paul Bailo, founder and CEO of Phone Interview Pro and professor at Columbia University, in sharing his expertise on why communication is important in everything. They also talked about the future of work and why companies and organizations should adapt to working remotely. So before you go from ecstatic to panicked wondering how in the hell you’re going to knock the interviewer’s socks off, tune in to this week's episode and polish your communications skills to ace the interview you have been waiting for.
[2:48] Work is your friend
[9:27] Prepare yourself for progress in your industry
[15:53] The Big Pause
[21:17] Mindsetting makes your job more worthwhile
[23:53] Hone your strengths, don't dwell on your weaknesses
[30:22] Having great communication skills is a must in today's world
GUEST BIO:
Paul J. Bailo, MBA, MSW, is the founder and CEO of Phone Interview Pro, a service for job seekers who want to perfect their telephone job interviewing skills. After recognizing that the importance of the phone interview is often overlooked, Bailo prompted Phone Interview Pro to create a 250-plus point phone evaluation, previously nonexistent in the career services industry.
Collateral to his business impact, Paul teaches at Columbia University as Adjunct Executive Graduate Professor in Applied Analytics and Digital Marketing, Innovation, and Data Analytics at New York University. He served as an Executive Advisor to the Governments of Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, and Abu Dhabi, as well as the Central Bank of Nigeria and Drexel University. Paul also acquired unique eight US patents.
LINKS:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulbailo/
Oz Digital Consulting: https://followoz.com/
PIP Consulting Group: https://pipconsultinggroup.com/
COVID Survivors for Change: https://covidsurvivorsforchange.org/
Follow Insured Nomads at:
Instagram: @insurednomads
Allen
Hello and welcome to The New Nomad podcast. I have a great guest, somebody I've learned a lot from. Paul Bailo, who's, you know, it's hard to describe because he's a professor, an author, futurist chief transformation officer, digital consulting, somebody who I've learned a lot from, as a matter of fact, was working on a presentation, really didn't know how to bring it to life and suggested Pixar's has six rules of storytelling. So just tremendous stuff. So not quite sure where our conversation is going to go today. And that's what I love about our conversations, because it always gets to somewhere interesting. Paul, welcome, welcome aboard. And just would love you to give a quick overview of your background, but mostly your intellectual curiosity and how we've gotten here today, because it's wonderful to speak with this.
Paul
I'm just a middle class guy from Queens, New York. So in this podcast, I realized that certain words, I can't say people think I have an accent. But it's not I don't have an accent, right? People think I'm from Boston, I'm not from Boston. I'm from Queens, New York. So my background is is I just glue stuff together at an executive level. Currently, I'm the Chief Transformation Officer at Oz. But also do social entrepreneur components, helping society, helping the blind people of a company called Phone into Pro that really helps blind people land jobs with New York State. Most recently, I'm the chairman of the board for COVID survivors for chain trying to help the millions of people and families that were impacted by COVID. And then academically at night, I teach I teach at Columbia and NYU and Yale, I'm like sleep professor, as an adjunct is doing some cool stuff. So by day, I'm an executive, by 9am professor, on the weekend, I tried to help society.
Allen
You have a seven day workweek. But it's interesting, you know, to our audience, that many of you are digital nomads out there looking for unique things. In an earlier conversation with Paul, which I thought was really interesting. Paul, you you're talking about the future of work. And I took a few notes. And a couple of things I thought was really interesting. And it ties in his audience, is if you could talk to our audience a little bit about your thoughts on active versus passive income, because I see a lot of folks working towards what you were discussing, and some of the ideas that you might have of actually reaching the goal of transferring yourself to a passive income source, per se.
Paul
Yeah. So so first of all, I love working I don't, I don't like for some reason our society thinks work is bad. So you know, if you read the book, which is, you know, The Richest Man in Babylon, there's a whole section about work is your friend. Right? So yeah, so I think mentally, we just have to think of work like, when I work at Oz, I just who I am, it's part of my DNA, when I'm teaching, it's just who I am like, I can't I can't be, I can't have one without the other. It's just who I am. Right? It just doesn't work. If I have, you know, if I'm the executive in my teaching, it doesn't work. So I think we have to understand or have individuals really have to come up to grips with what does work mean, for them. To me, work is fun, right? I think it just should be fun. And if not, then I don't want to do it. Right. It's, it's some way for me to do that I have to have money in the bank or other sources of income. So I believe that most people don't want to work. I believe the future is future of work, from what I've seen and read and researched and looked at the either is the future of work is no work. Which means basically, people want to do what they want to do when they want to do it, where they want to do it as long as they have some income. Right? So the idea of it's an idea of where does the money come from? And I think and nowadays, money comes from many different places, right? In my world, it comes from working at Oz, it comes from teaching. But there's other income that basically don't do anything for you know, there's something called the bank account, there's something called dividends, there's something called rent, right? So if if one could supersede the other, then you have more, you know, passive income. It's a sort of like an early pension. But in order to get that money and build that up, you have to do something to acquire those funds.
Allen
That's right. That's right.
Paul
So but at the end of the day, I'm coming to the conclusion that most people don't want to work. And the future of work, in my mind is really that it's really just going to be this whole concept of passive income as long as, as long as you have enough money in the bank or enough invested to to be able to pay your bills, then I think you could do this, but at the end of the day, I'm not too sure if people when they look in the mirror, that's enough, like I wouldn't be happy with that. Right. So yeah, so that's really I think the future of work is no work for one seeking might be the future of work is doing really cool stuff that you really love doing, but not for stuff.
Allen
Yeah, well, I think you're you've touched upon something that I've heard through our podcasts. Like, for instance, in this podcast, Paul, we've had people that have retired and they call it rewired. So they go out from retirement to requirement where they're going to go to another country, learn a foreign language, experience it for maybe a couple months or years, and then move on to something else. But they've had the passive income to support that or somebody who does taxes, moves to Mexico and surfs when it's sunny, does taxes when it's not, and then also monetizes the stories about the surfing for passive income. So I think you're onto something I think you just described our audience. But maybe it ties back to something else I've asked you about this is you need to be passionate about something so it doesn't feel like work, correct? or incorrect?
Paul
So I think there's three Yeah, that's a really good point. So I think the first thing is, is I don't think people don't want to work. I think people want freedom. Yeah, right. They just want freedom. But I think just being passionate isn't enough, I think you have to really look at three things. I think, and I call it PPG. The first one is you have to have purpose. So you really have to figure out like what's your purpose in life? Right? Like, what did it like? And, you know, I'm Catholic, and you know, we believe in Jesus Christ. And you know, there's a purpose, right? Yeah, there's more to our life than just working, we have a purpose, like my purpose, I believe, is really helping my students and making them apostles and making them really great leaders and thinkers. And my purpose when I'm an executive and working with employees and stuff is to try and make their lives better, right. I mean, that's my goal as a mentor, and an advisor, and fixing problems and taking boards and the people sighs You know, it's really purpose. And that purpose, if you align it, well, what might give you your passion, but the end all of this to be successful is what I learned in the streets of New York, which is grit. Right? Being a street kid from New York, you know, we used to play in the streets. I mean, we can. So it was grit. Like, you know, if you're in town, your friends are gonna pick you up, you got to get up yourself and keep moving and get going. Right. So I call it PPG. I think you can't just say, Hey, I don't want to work. That's a sort of, yeah, lying, you know, blindly in the blind, something there. But you really think if you could really think about what makes you happy. But you know, what makes you happy may not make you money, right? You're saying Yes, happy may not be your passion. And I believe everyone has some God-given gifts that make you really special and the quest is to find out what makes you really special. And then harness those powers to see if those God-given gifts are is really your passion and can your passion turn into your purpose and then stay with it, Right? Don't give up the problem that I see what most people see is give up.
Allen
Yep. So it's interesting. You talk about, you know, a couple things in one of your earlier podcasts every seven years is a new job market. Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to hear about that. That was the revelation to me. What you share? Yeah,
Paul
so let me think about it. I mean, there was a something I read or soar in my early days when there was a car car company called Chrysler, right? Yeah, I remember. Right? So everyone in the UAW was getting fired, and the company's going out and the government had come in. And there was a really smart Department of Labor, Head of Department of Labor, and he was brought in to come in and say, okay, prepare these workers for the future. And he was like, Look, the data says every seven years, the jobs that people will have, will not be here. So it's seven years of jobs that you and I have don't even exist yet. So simple things like the mobile phone is what 15 years old, you know, mobile app development is relatively new, right? These are all new things you're talking about, you know, AI and machine learning. This is all relatively new, these jobs that are being developed are relatively new. And they haven't really come to the marketplace, but they will, in all these new industries in seven years. That's roughly the time so what people need to start thinking about is always look to the future and see what some trends are. Right. So big trends now obviously, data and analytics, imaging, satellites space, right. So space exploration, space tourism, you talked about that 20 years ago never existed. That's right. If you're interested in tourism, and you're interested in being a flight attendant, don't go work for you know, wait to go work for American Airlines. Start looking at Virgin and try and be the stewardess or the pilot for you know, going to space. If you want to be a hotel manager. Don't worry about being the hotel manager at the Hyatt, start thinking about being the hotel man you're on the moon, start preparing yourself for this.
Allen
Yeah, right. Well, you know, it's interesting to it, you know, there are cycles. I mean, there's also generational cycles right now, there's a thought that there's four different distinct generations and every 22 years, those generations have different patterns. And you sit, then you put the seven years on top of the 22 year generational change. You know, people always say things change so quickly, but things always have been changing quickly. And I think one of the things that you've you've brought up that was really interesting, and I know you're working with this is even just moving from, in the past, doing doing a job and now perhaps having like your own digital assistant, and some of the different ideas that you have of what's coming, that's going to change. Could you go into that? Because I was blown away on that conversation about the assistant
Paul
company that the Oz Digital Consulting was working in partnering with called the IP software Amelia and they have a very interesting viewpoint, the idea of having a chat or a bot, those days are over. What you really want to be thinking about, is really having a digital human. So right now, everyone at work, predominantly certain roles have a computer, right? So you have you leverage the power of a computer, but and then you have co workers, the future of my co workers will not just be you, Allen, it would be a robotic or digital human agent that would actually carry out the task, that would have KPIs, but the learning of that digital agent will actually learn from the best of the best of the best. So let's say hypothetically, you have a call center, you have a system that has sort of like the top three people, they do certain things really, really well, you could go teach a human agent to do this. Yeah, where the human agent is not just sort of helping, but the human agent is really facilitating the task at hand. It's not like a helper, it's actually equal to the best person you have. Now, my vision of this is just like people are building apps, I have a vision that the future of work, especially for, you know, nomads traveling around, I could see people building a bunch of these human sort of, you know, digital agents that worked for you. And you rent them out. Just like Yeah, right. So so it's like that. It's like a, you know, it's like renting out an app, only I build this, this digital agent equal to a human that does really good conversation, sales conversations. So I could go build this and someone wants a sales agent, they can hire a person, or they can hire my digital agent. And you rent that personnel. It's almost like a virtual sales force, in my mind. Yeah. Right. And at the end of the day, you know, when it's time for reviews, you will be reviewed by the leadership, and the agent will be reviewed in terms of performance. But the future of work is really this symbiotic relationships, not only between human and computer, but I believe it's going to be between human and this sort of human agent, which is really powered by data and data analytics, AI and machine learning.
Allen
Well, you know, it ties also into your earlier comment with some passive income. If I create a staff of these digital agents, and I rent them out. I'm, you know, I was active in building them. Yes, but I'm now passive in the income that comes in as they assist you. Yes. I think that's genius.
Paul
Yeah. So it was cool. It all fits in, right. Like, people hired me to glue stuff together. And so like, like, I like glue people together, I glue companies together, you know, glue digital transformation issues together. But, you know, I mean, once again, I think people are just looking for freedom at the end of the day. People want to do what they want to do when they want to do it. I think organisations, corporations and leaders failed a lot of people. Right. You know, I mean, the things that I went through, my kids will not go through it, right, you're working for a boss is not that nice. You know, you have to, you know, certain places. I have friends who have to wear certain shirts and certain ties. Yep. Right. And think like, wow, this sounds like jail, and the inability to think about things you really want to think about. Now, today, if I like the job, people like younger generations, like I'm leaving, right? It's like, you just can't watch them a little bit. And they're like, I don't need this job. I'm out here.
Allen
That's right, right.
Paul
That's right. Is it right or wrong? I don't know. But I know a lot of things that my friends had gone through like, wow, it was really rough. And this generation has done a lot to say, look, I expect in a job to be fulfilled. I expect that the job will make you know make me a better person and make me more marketable. I have learned some really cool stuff. I'm going to enjoy the people I'm working with and do really cool stuff. off. But if that's not the case, most people would be like, I'm out of here.
Allen
Well, you hit it. We're doing really cool stuff. And I think you touched upon this in something that I saw you write or talk about is, you know, in our community, there's a big conversation about this great resignation. I've not totally bought into that. And I heard you I've kind of added almost as the great restructure, maybe but I think you said it even more eloquently in one of your conversations. Could you explain to our audience your thoughts on the Big Pause? Because I think this ties into people taking stock, almost like the last pandemic in 1918, 1990, people took stock and they said, the world has changed. I want to go to Paris and be an artist. I, you know, or so, I'd love your concept of the big pause, would love you to share your futuristic view on that.
Paul
look. So look about what we've gone through, right? We've gone through, in my view, this crazy presidency, right? You know, the past president, we've gotten, you know, this, this virus, this crazy virus, a million people that we know, are passed away for what, two, two and a half years? Yeah, have this Putin war. I really think people were just tired. And then people just saying, like, look, I'm leaving this job. And it's just a little things that people like, I don't want this anymore. I'm tired of doing this. And I'm out of here. So you've seen the news, everyone saying, hey, all these people are resigning. But when you really look at it, they're coming back. They're basically saying, I need a break. It's like a mental, emotional pause in their careers, to evaluate what is meaningful for them at a level that we've never seen before. So it's not like, I'm out of here, I don't want to work. Again, it's more along the lines of look, I put up enough with this company and what you've done to like, you know, like, Hey, your leadership and management is really bad. I'm out of here. I need a moment to think about what I want, because COVID has forced me to realize there's a time limit on my life. COVID has realised that people around me will not be around forever. And there are dreams and things that people want to do. They're saying, Why am I waiting for retirement to do this? Let me go do this. Yeah, they won't be back. I think it's just that they need a mental rest of all this chaos in their lives and their world between, you know, the outside world, the inside world, work itself, people's lives, and lives are messy, and they just need to sort of say, Hold on, let me stop. Let me think. Maybe I need some more education. Maybe there's something down deep, I didn't realize that I'm really interested in. And what has happened is, is this COVID has forced people to evaluate what's important in their lives. And they are taking stock of this and saying, I'm going to stay in this job, or I'm out of here, and I'm going to do something totally different. But they will be back. It's not like they're not going anywhere. And you could see it if organizations offer the right benefits, the right pay the right culture, they will be lining up for you. If you offer this antiquated leadership, structural things like, like my work, my wife worked for IBM is very structured. And I'm thinking like, wow, that's, that's really a tough place. If you keep that culture. There's no way in hell people want to work in that culture.
Allen
Yep. Well, and also you want leadership that inspires and raises people up. And I'm seeing now certain entities are like, No, you have to return to the office. And people are saying, You know what, there's somebody else who will hire me for my job that I can work two days in the office three days at home, or you can give me flexibility. And I think this day of management, you know, basically, looking over your shoulder the whole time. If you don't have good employees that you can't trust to work at home, you've got a problem to begin with. Right?
Paul
You got a bigger problem, right? Well, first of all, it's really funny. Because in the early days of the virus, when Google sent everyone home development increase, you know, the coding development increased by 20%. The bigger problem, you have to realize if you're in a magic position, and your team just did as well at home, you really say, Were you adding any value to the equation? Or were you just really just paying yourself a job that really added no value? I think people have to be honest with themselves and say, am I here just to get money? Or am I really adding value to the people who I'm supporting or your mentor or you advisor? Do you know them psychologically, are you helping them in their lives? Do you look at them holistically? I mean, I have at times I have over 3000 people working for me right and my dad Yeah, I would probably do this every day, think about them. But always be ahead of them. Right? If someone got married, right? Like, why do you why do they have to come knock at the door and say, Can I get extra week off? You should be there saying, Hey, you got you're getting married, go take an extra week off every month. It's like mom at Christmas time, like mom has all gives you all the gifts that you really wanted without asking. Your leaders and managers need to do this. Like why do you make it harder for your employees? So this whole concept of what work means we have to get it from this mindset of you work for me, I work you know, this is it. This is my level. That's all bullshit in my book, right? Yeah. What Yeah. Are you adding value to? Where would you want where your birthday suit? You know, your birthday suit to work? I don't really can't get the job done but yeah, really well, yes. Right. Yeah. I mean, because at the end of the day, all it matters is value. Right now. My argument goes all out if you're in the factory floor, and you're putting a wheel on but yes, yeah, even then. Even then, you there was a study done. There were two factories. One was an American factory. One was a Japanese factory. The heart, minds and souls of the people on the factory floor were very different. The American factory with taskmasters, the factory floor in Japan, they were artists believe they were building artwork, American factory workers believe they're just building cars. Same material, same robotics, but the Japanese car would last better, because they were just so much tighter there. If it was supposed to be, you know, if the screws has to be at 1.000 to talk, it was at 1.000 Yeah. And the American car, man, we're close.
Allen
Especially if it's built on a Monday or a Friday.
Paul
Yeah. Or Friday, right. They say in the United States. Never buy a car on a Monday or Friday. Right? Yeah. But but it's you can't just source it like, like, it's like going to New York scene and doing a lot of building right. So there's one time I you know, I saw a brick layer and I said, Wow, what are you doing? What do you think I'm doing laying bricks? Right? And thinking, wow, okay, typical New Yorker, right? Like, yes, like, yeah, I got the block. There's someone else who's putting bricks up. And I go, What are you doing? He goes, I'm building a cathedral. Yeah, same job, same task, completely different mindset. And the person who's saying that building a cathedral, it just a little bit tighter with those bricks, that cement there's just a little bit better everything is so that you can't just have doing the job, you have to have the heart minds and souls. And, you know, study after study after study, the way you make someone feel is a direct correlation to their productivity, which is direct call of correlation to the value that they bring to the company. So you can't just have bodies coming to work. You want their heart minds, and souls should really have to make sure they're engaged that they like what they're doing. Look, no one wants to go to be go to work and be miserable. I mean, people have on a foul today, right? Yeah, it's craziness. Right? It was obviously correct. But you want to you want to build an environment that allows people to be who they are. And I think going back to what we talked about this, I believe that who you are, and having organization accepts you for who you are, is really the future of work.
Paul
We have been trying years and years and years to do like reviews, right? I don't believe people really change much. I know we like to think about this. But I think what you're really good at, and what you're really bad at, you're always gonna be really good at this. And you're really always going to be bad at that. Yeah, I would advise people to stop spending time on what you're really bad at, and spend really more time on what you're really good at. And the proof in the pudding is when you go to the Olympics, so you're watching the Olympics. The person who's a really good swimmer is a really good swimmer. Yeah, that person can ice skate. Yeah, the person who's an ice skater is really good at ice skating, but they're really terrible at swimming. So what we have to figure out is going back to your purpose, you know, and your passion and holding on to grit just like an Olympic athlete, you really have to find out what you're really good at. And over and over and over the critical pieces. Don't spend too much blood, sweat and tears on what you're bad at. Okay, you got to make it at least acceptable for people. Yeah, but what you're really good at, and hone that in. So if you have a salesperson who's a really good salesperson, and they can close a deal at 10,000 they could probably do a good job selling and perfecting at 100,000. If they could sell something at 100,000 they could do a million and then they could learn to get trained to do 10 million 20 million 100 million, a billion a trillion right? Yeah. As opposed to spending all that time on saying, I need to be a better listener, right? So you have to, you have to really say, Look, you have to be a good listener, or you know, you have to get to a certain level, that's acceptable. But the reality is, is you're always better off putting your time on your God given gifts, and hone those skills just like an Olympic athlete. That is that is really where the data is saying, you're better off at this because millions of people every year, get an end the year review. And in my book, not much changes. I have a friend a dear friend, I will give him his name's Jimmy, right. And he had his he worked for a very large Wall Street firm. And I said to him, how was your end of the year review. And he goes pull. To be honest with you, I looked at my from my corporate job and the Wall Street firm my end the year review and I pulled up my third grade report card. There wasn't much difference. Right? So no matter what you're going to do, you are what you are like if you're a hammer, be a hammer, if your screwdriver to screwdriver, but you're not or your Swiss pocket knife, be a Swiss pocket knife, but identify who you are, and spend time honing your skills like I am really good at glueing stuff together. I'm really good at it. Right transformation, figuring stuff out, you know, I'm really good at it. Right? But if you want me to, like make you a pottery or or something, I'm terrible, right? It doesn't work. I'm terrible at it. But I know what I'm really good at. Right? And I'm good at educating and speaking and writing. And do you know, even writing I have I've been my books have been around the world. And why don't you have a tool, I thought I was a terrible writer. In high school, it was an absolute disaster. If I said, Well, you know, I think I can make this app. But deep inside of me. I want to write about what I want them to write about, not what you want them to write about.
Allen
Yeah. But you're intellectually curious couple of things come come out right away. And this is what I really enjoy meeting you and speaking with you is, first off, you'd like to mentor people, you'd like to make people better. There's a lot of people who I don't feel like to make people better because they feel like if you're better, I'm I'm worse. And the other thing is you're intellectually curious. And I'd love you to share a bit because you touched upon the book, you wrote a book, the essential digital interview handbook to make other people better. I think our audience here does a lot of interviews digitally or by phone, I think some of your wisdom would be really helpful to that. I was blown away by what you did. Could you could you share just a little taste of that and of course, when the show notes, when this comes out, we'll make sure that people have the ability to
Paul
Yeah, you look, my book agents always told me so I'm not I'm not really do a good job selling a book. I think it's you know, so. So first thing is, is, I think in the end of the day, what makes me happy is really seeing people successful. Yes, the first time, so so people who help people have a really good life, and happy life. So the My belief is the goal of life is to help people either in teaching and mentoring, advising. And people don't want to help people, I think really sort of is an egotistical thing, to your point, who's better, who's worse, and then you never really want to get into that it has to they are it's not changed, or I've never seen it really change. So you really want to identify people willing to help each other. I mean, there's nothing better than really being a parent and watching your children grow or, or being an executive and watching your staff bloom and be successful. I think it's absolutely fantastic. The books I wrote, the first one ever was really about the essential, essential fauna to handbook. And when I was trying to do is a few years back was a lot people weren't getting jobs. And I said when I looked at this in a process, my point is because they can't talk, they can't speak correctly. And I created when I was doing my PhD research, I built the whole algorithm and a whole set of models to perfect voice communication. And what you say what you do and creating mental video on a phone interview, has translate translated in the high success of landing the face to face interview. But it's literally the first book it's called the essential phone that you have, but it's the only book of its kind for since interviewing in the phone came out no one everyone has missed in the career service industry the phone interview.
Allen
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's interesting. This this is a true story. We had two great candidates for a sales job. We met them actually in a reverse order. We met them face to face but a lot of our selling is on the phone. And it was a dead heat. So we picked the third party and we said you're gonna call that person up and you're gonna have a phone interview. And this is the deciding vote. They didn't know this was the deciding vote. Sure, and it was amazing. One gentleman had like a 45 minute wonderful conversation. The other one had like 12 minutes of dead air. And to this day, we hired the gentleman, still a close friend. And by one of the great things, he's he's left my organization, but we still stay in touch. And when I told him the story, but it was his interview on the phone that made the difference. But also, we learned that if you could talk to somebody on the phone without really seeing the visual cues, this is what we're doing now. Yes, there's somebody who can really communicate well, Paul, so when I saw that you wrote that book, kudos to you, because it is an unnoted skill that people need to work at.
Paul
Yeah, that's very kindly. I mean, the whole the whole thing is, when I was presenting, people were just saying, like, you know, like, we did a whole bunch of research. And as people was doing phone interviews, we we interviewed the hiring manager, it was really interesting, because they say, they just said, I can't see that person in the job. And it just occurred to me, what people say how they say it, their voice fluctuations are creating mental video in the hiring manager's mind. So what you say your anger, I mean, we've had, we've done studies on when if a hiring manager calls a candidate, what ring you pick up the phone, robot, whole psychological piece, and just recently, we were actually I mean, this. So this is, this is a plug, really. So we basically took her book, I finally had the time and money to build something called Land It, which is the gamification of the research in my book, which really allows someone to go online and go through this really pretty cool, we call it Opportunity Park, which allows you to go and learn about phone interviewing. And then we create this other thing called Voice Valley, which basically profiles your voice. So you could read a script, we built the AI models behind it. And it will tell you if you sound like a CEO or an intern or a manager. And it gives you immediate feedback. No one has ever done that. That's awesome. In term of phone and voice because the voice during a phone interview or a regular interviewing process is the only weapon you have to get the job, either on the phone or face to face. But that's the weapon that you have what you say how you say it, the words you use are critical in order to actually get the job.
Allen
Well, you are somebody who always seems to know and see overlooked things. So we ask all of our guests in the podcast, to maybe share an overlooked person, place, experience, book, whatever that that would somebody listening this podcast would say, You know what? I'm going to look into that. Paul, could you share one of an overlooked one for us?
Paul
Yeah, so an overlook book, which has been around which is really pretty interesting. It's been around I forgot how many 102 years is Marcus Aureliu's Memoirs. So Marcus Aurelius was a Roman emperor, he was a general, it is one of the most thought-provoking books I've ever read. And I'm not sure if you can really read it. It's really his memoirs. Yeah, so it's a book that was written written in Greek it was translated, but it's what he had said hundreds of years ago, is what could be used today in the executive boardroom. And it's really a reflection of his life. And he was a stoic, but he was fighting wars for the Roman Empire, he had to deal with the political bullshit in the Roman Senate. But that book is something that parents should give their children like, as soon as they can start reading, because it's almost like it's almost like sixth period plays. This is truly how you may want to lead people, and how you want to think about your life, and how you want to think about the political arena that we live in. But it's called Marcus Aureliu's Memoirs that was translated from Greek to English, but it's a I make it indirectly I tell all my students, they should read this book. Because it's not something that's for my class at Columbia or NYU. It's a it's a, it's a book that will trans trance, you know, transpose your entire life.
Allen
Excellent. Great conversation today. Paul, could you share for our audience, and of course, we'll have in the show notes, places where people can find you?
Paul
Oh, yeah, just you could just look at me, Paul Bailo at LinkedIn. You got to look at odds consulting. In the balance page, we do a lot of cool digital transformation AI work. And you also know my my social company, my little entrepreneur company is called Phone Interview Pro. And the new product we're building is called Land It, which is really, hopefully help a lot of people. I mean, because no one's ever done it before. And this was really shocking everyone skills.
Allen
And I think we'll have you back on when Land It is before running. So folks are out. It'd be great. So So what did we learn today? I learned a lot as matter of fact, to our listeners out there I have a full page of active and passive income, the big pause, Land It. And we talked about, you know, seven years new job market. Just a tremendous conversation today. I'm sure we'll get Paul on again, I do suggest you to go to YouTube also and look at some of his conversations on the future of work, just a tremendous job. So, with that, I want to wish all of our listeners safe travels. Please continue to subscribe to the new nomad. It's very important if you liked this podcast and just mentioned it to one other person. That's how these type of audiences grow. We look forward to hearing more from you in the not so distant future. Travel well, travel safe.