Happy Halloween Sharing Travel Medical, Evacuation and Safety Tips with Chris Nam | TNN79

Don’t spend all your effort and time planning for the perfect vacation then overlook the importance of adding a travel insurance policy to that plan. As a traveler, you are vulnerable to accidents, diseases, and other issues which is why you need to take up travel insurance. We know travel insurance can seem like just one more expense, but you'll never know when it will come in handy. Planning for your dream vacation is stressful, let travel insurance take some of it away.

Bret Estep, Chief Operating Officer, and Chris Nam, Director of Engagement, both at Insured Nomads, join Allen Jernigan in a very important episode of The New Nomad. They talked about the horrors you might encounter in traveling and how easily they could be prevented. They also talked about travel insurance features that travelers can take advantage of. Travel insurance is definitely worth it. the small cost of purchasing insurance cannot be compared to the massive costs it will cover in case you are faced with any emergencies during your trip.  

[1:37] Global uncertainty is here to stay

[5:37] Accidents do happen when traveling

[13:41] Travelers need mental health support too

[22:15] Know that Insured Nomads has your back

[26:36] Why you need travel insurance whenever you travel

[31:21] Always Keep your documents safe

GUEST BIO:

Brett Estep is Founder and Chief Operating Officer at Insured Nomads, spearheading a global work revolution underway during a time of significant uncertainty around the world - from health, safety, security, natural disaster, mental health, and beyond. 

Chris (Minwoo) Nam is the Director of Engagement at Insured Nomads and is a motivated leader and creative thinker. Aspiring to pursue a career in the biotech/medtech business and to ultimately contribute to the advancement of health, wellness, medicine, and tech - all in one.

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Transcript

Allen

Welcome, and thank you for joining us on The New Nomad podcast today. Today we're going to be handling kind of a subject that we get a lot of questions on. That's a little different than our typical format. We're going to be talking about travel, medical programs evacuation and how to support yourself safely. If you're a remote worker, a traveler, a digital nomad, somebody who really wants to explore this world deeply, but feel comfortable in doing it. So I brought me bringing in my co host, Brett Estep today. Brett has been with us before on podcast and somebody who's traveled extensively read, I'll start with you just a quick kind of overview. You get a lot of inquiries. And people say, Listen, I am going for the first time or maybe I'm going for the fifth time to a unique location. And what should I have to protect myself? And what is the, you know, type of program I should have? And what would I miss? And I gotta buy this for my mom and my grandfather. There's a million different permutations, and we're going to share all those today. 

Brett

Yeah, great. Thanks, Allen. Good to be back on The New Nomad podcast. And congrats on the continued success here for this series. Time and time again, I think we get this question in that either you're dealing with the invincible, so they theoretically don't need any of this tight. Or they have been on a good streak of fortune, whereby they haven't had any accident injury or illness that has unfolded while they've traveled. But two things I know to be certain today, remote work is here to stay and sadly, so is global uncertainty. And if you take a moment, regardless of what kind of publications you read, there's a tremendous amount of uncertainty whether it is geopolitical or civil unrest, or natural disasters, the earthquakes that just unfolded in Mexico, etc. That to me is the real reason the so what in terms of why you would need this, in that the technology that we've deployed, selfishly, is using the machines to monitor the status of the world round the clock all year long. And we can make available the vastness of our resources to empower you to safely and intelligently live, work and play anywhere around the world.

Allen

You know Brett, it kind of ties into a story that kind of illustrates point is I was working with the benefit manager and they were having a group of 14 people go to an off site overseas, and kind of inquired a bit about evacuation. And basically, at the end of the day said, you know, what, the relatives in my mind, the relatively low sum to ensure medical evac, and you know, have all the different coverages necessary, really, roughly was about 120 bucks a person, but skipped it. And then I received a phone call from a person that was in that group and said that a person had had a bad accident. And they were trying to figure out how to do an evacuation back to a medical provider. And because they hadn't bought the insurance for about $120 person, they were getting bills of 50 to $100,000, to move this person to a facility. And that's where I had to have that conversation, there's a difference between insurance and known risk. Insurance is that you buy something before the fact to protect yourself. And then now all of a sudden, you obviously can't get insurance after the fact. And they were trying to come up with an incredible amount of money. And you say to yourself, there's a lot of ways you can protect yourself in advance. But once something happens, it's hard to scurry around and get the protection you need. And I'm sure you've run into a few of those along the lines.

Brett

So I want to separate it into two different categories, one, which is addressing the issue that you've had just raised there, which is, you know, kind of more tactical, and that I have seen it time and time again, where either individuals that have bought it, never used it and then regret it or didn't buy need it while they're traveling and then regret that decision. They're the duty of care obligation that exists for me to your point, or if I'm a corporate client sponsoring travelers around the globe, your point is valid. The cost versus benefit is far more in your favor. And the example that I like to use is that, you know, think of the burden of disease that exists in predominantly the west. A lot of it could be GI issues or respiratory issues, relatively insignificant, but you put those issues into developing healthcare systems, and what is otherwise insignificant could become very catastrophic. They might not have the infrastructure to get you the support that you need. And so you need to keep that in mind too is that it's just asthma. Well, if it's just asthma, and you're in the middle of nowhere, that asthma attack becomes a very significant event. And I've seen that happen more often than not. But I do want to turn it over to Chris, because I know he's had some recent and this gets into the other side of what can be provided to our various communities and audiences is some of the travel ancillary benefits that may be more along the lines of creature comforts, Chris?

Chris

Yeah. So I know, we're talking about you know, just some accidents that happen during trips. I often get a question saying, Hey, I have a credit card that has all these travel benefits. But so why do I need travel insurance, you know, because even myself I have, I use Chase, and they provide different travel benefits while you travel. So that way, you don't run into trouble. And then you're all of a sudden stuck with a terrible situation. But I know Allen, you and I talk about these pretty often. But there are primary and secondary travel insurances and other insurances, too, they, they cover different things. So where secondary insurance, it'll only cover so much that you know, whatever your primary insurance didn't cover. And that goes for the same as credit card benefits. So it's probably worse, it'll cover only a certain amount of things. And so, you know, recently I had a chance to travel to Philadelphia, and it was a great time, and getting also to meet Allen in person being in a remote team. And, but the unfortunate thing is, when you're traveling, and you're experiencing all these cool things, you're getting to take all these beautiful pictures and uploading them to your Instagram to your tic tock, people don't see the you know, baggage loss, delayed flights, sometimes you get delayed for six to seven hours. And that was the unfortunate case. For me, I got stuck at the airport for however long, I think it was about five hours, scheduled to fly out at 10 o'clock at night and land back in Birmingham, around 12 o'clock. And that didn't happen. The flight was the aeroplane actually got lost, nobody was able to track it. And we were stuck at the airport for about five hours. The important thing about travel insurance is when you have it, you get to you know, look at your benefits. And thankfully, I had airport lounge access that I was able to get into and along with some of my co workers that I was with there. So we're all able to get in just hang out, relax, while we're waiting for our plane. So not to say that we want you to be stuck in these situations. But definitely, it is important to have travel insurance in whole. If you look at it from a broad perspective, what are those things where you know, you have car insurance, you get into an accident, and you need it. But then if you don't, it's just like you pay extra few $100 a month. But then when you don't have it, all of a sudden you get into an accident. So yeah, it's just one of those things. That's, you know, it's really good to have. And I would recommend definitely having these features available. And you know, while we're working for the revolution of insurance, I think it is awesome that we provide these things. And so yeah. 

Allen

I think it ties into something that Chris and I have talked a lot about is we tried to work with you out there with a checklist. So he touched upon something I thought was incredibly, incredibly important. So what is primary versus secondary? What that really means and I know most of our listeners are not insurance people like us. But primary means that if you have a medical accident, outside your home country and you get taken to hospital, we're going to pay that claim to the provider without having you have to search around if you had other coverages. So secondary basically means Yeah, you've tried to file a claim with everybody else. And only if there's nobody else available come back to us. Well, you know, for those of us who have been global, we realize that a lot of times you can't leave the hospital until your bill is paid. So if you don't have a lot on your credit card, a lot, a very high balance, you might not be able to come up with the money yourself. So if you're, if we were a secondary provider, we'd say Well, sorry, you gotta wait. You have to figure out, you know, who else might pay this claim? Well, as a primary payer, we will pay first. And that's a big issue. And, and Brad, I think the other thing that we come up with it's a major question between primary and secondary is people say, Well, what type of evacuation should I buy? They, you know, most people think well, I guess the medical evac if I get sick, I get in a bad car accident, I get in the big issue and I need to be moved for medical but we've extended that conversation to And I know you've been very big because you've been working with people in the security area. But, you know, for security and natural disaster, we've made that definition of evacuation even bigger. And, and I know this is an area you're very passionate about.

Brett

Well, it's all encompassing. And to your point, it's medical and non medical. And I feel like if you're going into any travel situation in today's environment, with the significant level of uncertainty that I mentioned at the outset, you're it's a bit of a fool's errand to go without the protection and the resources that that you would need in that situation. To put it in context. Two things come to mind when I was visiting with some individuals in our security division that support some of these non medical evacuations, over the past two years, most industries have taken a hit. And sadly, that impacted organized crime and cartel. So as travel begins to return, those criminal organizations see their revenue returning as well. And so that's important to consider because it's a non medical situation that you would need to support. Also visiting with the medical - non-medical component of the Insured Nomads business to give you some context, that group handled 4 million ambulance and evacuations over the prior year. And so the volume is significant, and which tells me that there's a need. Here's another example. We've had an insured that left the hotel room, to head to work was involved in a motor vehicle accident, and was incapacitated, taken to a facility in Laos. And our assistance coordinators needed to get them to a different hotel because of the inferiority of the healthcare system. But the individuals passport was locked in the safe in their hotel. So what do you do then, it's the assistance coordinators that we work with handle all of that they arranged with the hotel to get access to the safe because you can't travel internationally without your passport. They didn't put the member in the middle of that sticky situation. They coordinated with the inbound health care facility because it had some standards of care and outcomes and efficacy that were far better than the one that was in Laos, where they were currently located. And they handled that entire transition. And so when I get the question of, I'm relatively well off, I can afford my health care in another health care facility. In those unplanned instances, you could be dealing with per your prior comment, bills that are not 10s of 1000s, but hundreds of 1000s of dollars. And so while you may be well off, what you might not realize is that that could expose you and this isn't an intent to scare people. This is just the reality of the evacuation, repatriation, you know, kind of industry, that it's very expensive, and there's a lot more coordination that needs to happen than buying someone an airline ticket to a better health care destination. 

Allen

Well, speaking of coordination, know when somebody is at a remote location, a lot of times they have a medical issue that they're unsure of or a mental health issue, and telemedicine tele mental health becomes an issue. I know, Chris, you've been very passionate about us making sure that we have those benefits and those services in our programs care to comment on how that helps people with their global travel.

Chris

For sure, I just recently had a chance to talk to one of the digital nomad coaches living in Brazil currently. And, you know, part of my passion and aspiration for life is I want people to be happy. I want people to just, you know, be mentally well, because part of this 21st century going into, you know, this new season upcoming 2023 You know, ever since COVID happened even before that mental health has just been failing a lot in people's lives, even people close to me. I'm having to watch them just go through different situations and just not come out of that completely healed. People traveled to get away from that oftentimes. And what's sad is even when they're traveling, they are still you know, going through things. There are news that they receive while they're traveling, there are situations that they get stuck in that is not fortunate for them and you know, things happen mental health goes down, morale goes down and that's not good for traveling and so part of what enter nomads I love that provides is mental wellness care, and that's included into the INC benefits. And I love that because, you know, if you're traveling and then all of a sudden, you just happen to need to talk to somebody, but then your travel partner maybe doesn't want to listen to that. Oftentimes that happens when I'm sure I'm playing with my girlfriend, and she's in a bad mood and then I'm in a bad mood, we don't want to talk about our feelings, but then we do need to talk about it somehow. But if we're stuck in a situation, then the only place we can go is telemedicine, telehealth, you know, consultants. And so, yeah, when that's there, knowing that that's there, it's just so comfortable. And it's so easy to travel without worrying. And yeah, I mean, I come from a background of science. I've studied neuroscience in psychology for about six years. And so that's a huge part of my life. And I think that's important to have for anyone in the world, but also, especially for the travel field, because if they're traveling, you don't have like somebody that you constantly talk to about your feelings about your thoughts. And so having that telemedicine telehealth part, I think is really important.

Brett

So, Chris, you had mentioned one thing and that you had mentioned, INC, for our audience that hasn't joined us or previously or had exposure to the Insured Nomads brand. Can you expand a little about what IMC is, and yeah, offer?

Chris

Sure INC Inc. It's a part of Insured Nomads, it is a community feature that we have opened up. And it's an app where you get a subscription included with your policy, whatever your policy is seven days, 30 days, you get it for 12 months. And in that you get, you know, telemedicine services, telehealth services, I mean, which includes mental health counseling and speech therapy, you have perks, ranging anywhere from a 30% discount to a food tour in Italy, to a 30% off at a We Work, which is a co working space in Portugal, you know different perks like that. There's also a feature where you can press a panic button and we send out any kind of emergency evacuations that we were just talking about. There are features where you can look at the country's information. So if you were, say, in Argentina, and you open up the I NC app, it shows you all the information of that country anywhere from the currency to the culture to you know, whatever the country's anthem is. So it's really cool just to learn about everything about the country that you're in, that you didn't know about through the INC app. So it makes traveling easier and smarter at the same time. And it's just an amazing feature.

Allen

The feedback I get on the app also is really unique in the sense first of you touch the panic button that comforts me there are people just buy panic buttons online themselves. What I love is when you hit that panic button in the app, it has a geo positioning tool that has an understanding of where you are. And also when you have that app, there's some push notification items. And I know Brett, you were very much behind the building of that, to me, that's the secret of it, that it's not just hitting the panic button after something happens. But by having that app, we can also be proactive in giving you push notifications. Could you could you explain a little bit how we do that because people are like, this is amazing to be I'm sitting now in San Jose, Costa Rica and I just got a push notification that there's a demonstration going on here. And this is an area to stay away from and they think it's like magic. But there's a lot behind that.

Brett

And here's the thinking, you know, with today's technology, things just work. Things work via multi factor authentication processes, and is connected to your payment preferences, via various payment gateways has your address all I know is that if I need to order something via my phone, it connects to all the right spots. And it just works. That level of technology and integration hasn't existed in this industry. And nor do I think it will, outside of Insured Nomads in any meaningful capacity, you know, in the foreseeable future. So the technology for us as opposed to amassing a large database where you publish it via purchased API source documentation, we've taken a top down approach, which is we use the machines and AI to sweep the entirety of the net and look for any news publications or alert notifications from any entity around the world around the clock. And then that goes through an authentication process unto itself. And once that's validated than anybody that is caught up in a geofence, where the proximity of that event is one of three things happens: we send to a push notification via SMS and email and in the event that they're close enough to the proximity of the event, we placed an outbound telephone call. That is today's technology, leverage GPS. We built this in the cloud like I said, it is powered by the machines and we are doing more now with what we know about our customers and what we know about their destinations to then use the machines to hyper personalize that journey before, during, and after their trip. So us starting in the cloud with the machines In the GPS was really a launch point for us. The advancements and the additional technology that will bring to bear for our communities will be incredibly innovative. And it's part of what gets me super excited to continue to do this.

Allen

What I like about it is it's for the first time, you're proactive on an individual basis. So whenever I travel, I'm getting Hey, there's a change in COVID policies here, I get a notification. I have a panic button if I'm concerned about my health, or my safety. And most of the programs we've seen in the past are reactive. And I know when we built this, we wanted this to be technology-enabled. But the word proactive, was one thing that we wanted to have in our adjective. And the other one was easy, something that would be easy for people to understand. Because not everybody out there is a technology person, but they can definitely read when there's a missive that comes and says, This is something you might want to watch out for. So I I really salute what what you've done and what you've built there. It ties into well, 

Brett

and quickly draw a correlation because you have been at most of our audience's knows that you've been kind of a big wheel in the insurance industry for quite some time. But in the capacity that you had, as a senior leader, when you traveled, you got all sorts of services and support, did you not? And then draw the correlation from that existence to any of our community members? 

Allen

Yeah, it's a great point. So when I was in a corporate environment, and I would travel to a country, you know, I would not only have a security detail, I would also have the company would say, here's the different immunizations you need to have. And you know, we're going to make sure that you're got a lot of, it's just tonnes of information, here's the clinic you need to go to, if you were to get sick, I had all this information. And then when you're a digital nomad, working for yourself, or a gig worker, obviously, you don't have the corporate construct around you. You don't have the security detail, you don't have the air evacuation if you don't have the insured medical, that's why Insured Nomads was built. Because you wouldn't have to find all those pieces, you just got to find Insured Nomads, and look at the programme, purchase the program, provide your email address, back coming at you would be information about your own INC app that you load on your phone, you activate that, and you're good to go. And I know for both of you, it's really nice when you get a call from somebody and it's like, you know what, what you've gave me really helped keep me out of trouble, or get me out of trouble. And if you don't mind, I'll share kind of a scenario how that would work. And it's kind of interesting is, you know, let's say you were to travel overseas, with your wife, your husband, your spouse, whoever. And you've decided it's a great time to ride a camel in Morocco. And you get on that camel. Now all your life, you've seen camels you get on them, when they're already standing up, there might be a nice ladder. What you don't realize is when you get on that camel from a sitting position, it throws the front legs up. And unless you're ready, you get thrown off the back before the back legs pickup. So camel gets up, your lovely spouse falls onto the desert sands breaks their back. Now, if you had no protection on, you're now sitting in Morocco saying who do I call? Where do I go get health care? What if I need an evacuation? Who's going to pay this? Your somebody like Insured Nomads? What do you do? You grab your phone, hit the panic button, explain the situation. You also reach back to Insured Nomads and we make sure we get you to good medical care as quickly as possible. The medical services there are not up to standard for your back. So we're going to activate air evacuation going to move you to the location you feel comfortable with, might be the UK could be Switzerland, it could be you name in many different spots. And also make sure that you have all the push notifications you might need. You know is the weather bad for the flight. And you might have to go into a different airport. You know, there's a lot of different pieces to this. And also, people Brett can also forget you need things like flight clearances. So you need to have an air ambulance vendor who can help you with that. You know, you need a lot of different pieces of paperwork, but that's how it works. And that's what we want to make sure that nobody's stuck lying on a desert saying somewhere and saying I have absolutely no idea how I get up. So I've shared a quick story either you care to share maybe a quick story that you've you've seen along the these years?

Brett

Yeah, I mean, I have countless, that I have not only seen and witnessed in real time experienced on my own, from seeing, you know, the sad, unfortunate event of heart attacks on the other end of a long flight to London, to you know, many of the various disease burdens and how significant they become when you are in health care infrastructures that are different than the West and how tragic that can be. The the so what element for us, in my opinion, is that we have tried to do what we can to weave together a level of technology, healthcare integration and insurance integration, that has a usability that is not too dissimilar from how so many people are interacting with the world, whether it's Ecommerce or online shopping, or food order delivery services, everything is working with a very simplified UI UX. And we've got a very complex set of attributes that we make available. But the idea is to humanize the digital experience with the engagement with Insured Nomads, not the other way around. 

Allen

And Chris, you've had a story about somebody who thought they had primary coverage, and it was secondary coverage, that cost them quite a bit of money.

Chris

Yeah, I mean, ah, not exactly sure where it was, but I do remember, you know, while traveling, they, you know, ended up in a situation where they had to go in a hospital, but it was, you know, they didn't know if this insurance covered, covered primary or secondary, or if it covered anything at all, they knew they had health insurance, but ended up trying to use it. And then the hospital was like, Oh, we don't take this one or, you know, even went on to say, like, we we can cover it, but there's this much that you still have to pay. So you've got to make sure to review all of your details in your policy before you travel. I did have one time when you know, I was traveling back in Australia, when I lived there, I had a chance to go to Singapore. And I had a lot of problems as a kid. And back then I was about seven, eight years old and lots of gut problems. Ended up being stuck in a situation where I didn't have health insurance, my family that didn't have health insurance globally. So we were just traveling to for my dad's job. And I ended up having to go to hospital. And you know, it was in Singapore, from Australia, we had Australian health insurance, but we were in Singapore for a trip. But I ended up going to hospital because my stomach was hurting, so bad. And keep in mind this when I was eight years old, I have no idea what's going on with my body. My parents are in panic mode, because we're in a foreign country and my dad's trying to get business done and their son is in trouble. And we don't even know what's going on with the health insurance or even the health care system of the country. You know, in times like this, I think it's really beneficial to have an app like INC, that helps you out and tells you what information you need if you need to do this panic button. And then just being able to review your insurance and having that I think is really important. No matter what kind of health situation you're in, even if you have like, you know, Brett mentioned something about it. I just wanted to randomly bring this up. But Brett mentioned something about you know, having a virtual wallet to what if you're traveling, and then you happen to lose your wallet. And you just get stuck in a situation where your phone doesn't even have service. I went to Hawaii last summer and I lost my licence, my ID and my credit cards and my debit cards. They all happen to be in one wallet. The wallet was there, but none of the cards were in there. So it was weird situation. And I went to the airport. And I got stuck at the front at the TSA and they're saying, Hey, where's your ID, where's your credit card, I need some kind of proof that you're this person. That's the names on the you know your ticket. So at times like that, maybe it's useful to at least have a picture of your ID, a form of your card on a virtual wallet that has your name on it so that way you can show a picture of your ID and then a virtual wallet with a debit card with your name on it. Those kinds of things help out tremendously. And I think, you know, we do a great job of providing both of that.

Allen

That's a great lead in to a question I'd love to ask both of you is both of you have traveled widely. We'll start with you, Brett. You have any travel tips that you'd like to share with our audience

Brett

I do. Back into kind of that lane of uncertainty and geopolitical risk, travel with a burgundy mock passport. Why? Oftentimes, if there is some sort of hold up situation, the attacking party would separate individuals based on the colour of their passport alone, because at a glance, you can tell if they're European or they're Western. And if the objective is to hold up the Westerners then take a maroon copy that looks like you were traveling from Europe. I traveled a tremendous amount before I started having kids. And so maybe what we'll do is create a section on the website for travel tips. But look, look for checklists. We published checklists that get you through a lot of the tactical things. So whether it's your airfare, your lodging, you know, etc. But then there are other things outside of that that are important considerations, like when you were talking about inoculations, and what is the disease burden in various countries, whether it's communicable or non communicable diseases? What are the vaccination requirements based on today's, you know, kind of reality? But look for those checklists, and be sure that you're thorough in reviewing.

Allen

Chris, any additional items?

Chris

Yeah, I mean, just like I said, a few moments ago. In the case that you need an ID form, it's at least good to have it in a picture form. It's not, you know, it's not going to be official, but at least it's something so have a picture of your ID, whether it's your passport, your driver's licence, some kind of government ID, your debit card, it's good to have it, you know, I have an iPhone, so we have, you know, the wallet, digital wallet. Samsung phones have that too. But sometimes your phone is either out of service or just your you run out of battery. So it's good to have some kind of picture form or number saved somewhere. So like your debit card number written down somewhere, it's good to have that while you're traveling. I'd like to throw in the fact that you know, if you're traveling, you don't know what country you're going to be sure to check. You know, the culture and just, you know, what you need to watch out for in that country. Some, you know, hand signs could mean something else in different countries. It's just it's not really a travel hack. It's more so like a cultural ethical thing to do, I believe. So yeah. And then if you're traveling domestically, never bad to have something like this. So this is like a travel pillow but it also acts as a wraps around your leg. So that way you have like a leg pillow too. So you know, that's that's just a fun thing to have while you're traveling. I think it's good for transportation while you're driving or on the aeroplane or even if you're just sitting at the lounge. It's good to have so anything that's comfortable, travel light travel safely, and don't overpack. You can buy things when you're there.

Brett

Same question back to you, Allen. I know you've travelled extensively around the world some 70 plus countries what, what tips and tricks so you have for us?

Allen

So it thank you for asking. It's interesting, when I go overseas, this is a little different than the United States, I tried to stay at the sixth floor or lower in most hotels, because if there's a fire, I'm not sure how fire suppression is in foreign countries. And usually, you can get a ladder up to the sixth floor, I try the hotels not stay near the car park, you know, stay in a room near the car park in case it's in a country that might have some civil disturbance, you don't want to be in that area. I try to travel believe it or not, and blend in and out people dress locally. So I don't do the blue jeans and American sneakers. And the shirt that says Yankees or Minnesota Vikings, I might wear something a little bit more local. So I blend in. And I think you know, one of the last things I try to do is I really do try to have a time cut off. So I know nothing good happens after a certain time in certain places. It's always good to be in and maybe less than at least when I travel, I'll have my name in my luggage around my luggage. I don't have it out. So somebody comes up to me and goes Hello, Mr. Koski, I'm your ride. But they saw that off my luggage tag and they are not my right. So and maybe last but not least, depending on the location. And this kind of ties into Chris's point. I have a drop wallet that I bring with me. So I have a wallet that I travel around with daily but if somebody were to steal that wallet, I have another wallet that still has ID still has credit cards still has money, etc. So I still have some redundancy and and this ties back to Insured Nomads too, is it's great to have redundant or extra support because you never know when you're going to need it. And that's that's a lesson I take away and when I work with Chris and I work with Brett, we talk about this all the time. We want to give people as many options as possible. To say safe so. So we've had a great discussion today. Like to thank our listeners for joining us. If you have any questions about travel, medical or other items, you'll be able to find Brett, Chris or myself on LinkedIn. Or you can go to Insured Nomadsat www.InsuredNomads.com or please find us and we'll be happy to have a conversation. As you can hear my dog in the background agrees with this sentiment completely. So with that, we look forward to hearing from you again and please continue to travel safely.