The New Nomad

Expat Secrets Revealed of the Expat Money Show with Mikkel Thorup | TNN42

February 07, 2022 Andrew Jernigan and Allen Koski Episode 42
The New Nomad
Expat Secrets Revealed of the Expat Money Show with Mikkel Thorup | TNN42
Show Notes Transcript

Traveling is fun. You can experience a whole new culture and learn about the place first hand. But there are a lot of things you need to consider when traveling, and obtaining a visa to that country that fits your needs is one of them. While researching and educating yourself is really helpful when applying for documents needed for you to visit or even live in these countries, advice from people like Mikkel Thorup, a best-selling author and podcast host, would really do wonders for you.

This episode of The New Nomad discussed the benefits of getting travel documents to be able to experience a country, as well as the technicalities and the challenges that come along with it. Mikkel joins our hosts Andrew Jernigan and Allen Koski in talking about the pros and cons of dual citizenship and the responsibilities that ties with this privilege. Traveling is a privilege that most of us do not have. But if you can travel, by all means, enjoy every destination, every culture, every experience you can have in your journey. 


[7:28] Not all visas are created equally

[9:52] Things to consider when relocating to another country

[15:59] A country is more than just its government

[18:50] Options is what travelers look for

[21:00] How to be a citizen of a country

[28:51] Visiting thirds world countries helps their economies


GUEST BIO:

Mikkel Thorup hosts The Expat Money Show podcast and is the author of the #1 Best-Selling book Expat Secrets on Amazon. Mikkel has spent over 21 years in continual travel around the world, visiting more than 100 countries including Colombia, North Korea, Zimbabwe, and Iran.  Throughout his explorations, Mikkel Thorup has kept a keen eye on different investments and businesses. 

As a high school dropout, Mikkel started failing out of school at 12 and completely left school by 15 mainly due to the fact that the government-run public school system didn’t do their job and just did not work for him. As an autodidact, he enjoys reading over 100 books a year on topics such as entrepreneurship, marketing, economics, and investing.

Today, Mikkel sits on the Board of Directors for 10 Eighteen Uganda, a non-profit organization dedicated to helping teen moms in the Namuwongo slums in Uganda.


Mikkel Thorup Links:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mikkel-thorup-7b6942128
Blog: ExpatMoneyShow.com  
Company: ExpatMoneyShow.com/protection  


Follow Insured Nomads at:

Instagram: @insurednomads

www.insurednomads.com

Allen  

Hello again and welcome to The New Nomad podcast. Very happy to have you with us today. Today, we have Mikkel Thorup of the Expat Money show, and he'll share some of his expat secrets. I was very interested when I looked at his website saw how to pay zero taxes, live overseas and make giant piles of money. I think that's something that many of us aspire to. I'll be really interested in having a great conversation on that. And I know Andrew, you've you've moved from place to place and obviously, taxes, making money, making sure you're insured, you know, many of the different issues at hand that we're going to talk about today. It's really interesting to be how people ask about many of those issues. But what really made me excited about our conversation today is Mikkel, somebody who's actually past 150 episodes of podcasting. And that, and the topics he's covered has been tremendous. You and I are now at about 30. And I just have to tip my hat to him. And maybe a quick comment before we bring him in on the fun and the excitement of meeting new people through podcasting. Like we're gonna meet him today.


Andrew  

Yeah, it's it. This is really fun. It's I look forward to this episode, because I know making money around the world and moving that money that you earn in certain countries to another country is one of those things. But yeah, he has Mikkel is a great host on his show. And I encourage everyone to tune in, review, rate, etc, as you do our so faithfully. So it's a it's a fun journey and interviewing a fellow host and someone that puts out such great content.


Allen  

It really makes it makes a big difference to learn, I think, very easily. And I know our audience, because they travel so much, it's a lot of time to be able to listen to things. So let's bring Mikkel into the conversation. And if you could just give us a little bit of background on how you became you know, located in Panama and and how the Expat Money show came about and some of the great learnings and guests that you've had over the years.


Mikkel  

Well, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm really excited to dive into today's conversation. And you guys have an amazing audience here. So hopefully I can provide some knowledge. So for my story, we kind of have to go a little bit further back in time. So basically, when I was a child, I was diagnosed with a learning disability. And what happened was the teacher pulled me out of class, I was in grade three that pulled me out of class and they sat me down in a little room. I think the principal and the vice principal, maybe a resource teacher, something was there. And they said Mikkel, Mikkel something doesn't work quite right in your brain. And what we want to do is we want to send you to a special school, special school for special boys. And that's what they did. Every day for three years, I got our little white bus and I took the little white bus across town and went to this special school. But the only problem guys was it wasn't a special school. It was regular school with a special class. So you can kind of imagine what happened. I got in tonnes of fights, I got picked on, I got bullied. Now. This is no woe is me poor Mikkel, poor Mikkel story. I mean, I gave as good as I got. There's no question about it. But I left school, really not enjoying my experience whatsoever. So basically, after three years, I went back to my neighbourhood school and I was so excited. I thought, wow, my friends, they will have missed me so much. They're going to be so excited to see me. And once again, you can probably guess what happened. They all started whispering and gossiping. Oh, I know him he went to some retard school. 1980s totally politically correct. You know how kids are very, very gentle, very sensitive children. Anyways, 12 years old, I started failing out of school. I really didn't like my experience whatsoever. And I stopped going. And yeah, at 12 years old, I stopped going to school and at 15 I officially dropped out. And not shortly after that. I started traveling internationally. And fast forward. And now I've been travelling for 21 years straight. I've been to over 106 countries, I've circumnavigated the globe more than 400 times, I've lived in nine different countries, speak multiple languages, met my wife overseas, My kids were born overseas. And basically my whole life is around in and around the digital nomad and expat space. I wrote a book about it. I host a podcast, which you so nicely introduced at the beginning here. And yeah, I'm really passionate about these things. And I'm really excited about helping other people to make a change in their lives and recreate themselves and you know if moving overseas is the vehicle for doing that, I think it's an excellent vehicle to get it.


Allen  

So it just amazes me and I've been to 70 countries you've been to more is obviously during these experiences in the traveling and really bootstrapping yourself around the world. You've had some great expat secrets. And I know our audience, one of the reasons they come to the show is to get tips that help them out. Give us some of the ideas that have made that type of travel easier for you and maybe some of the mistakes that they could avoid through experience that you might be able to share.


Mikkel  

Sure, when I started traveling, I mean, I had a big red backpack, and I just jumped on a plane and went one way flights overseas. And that was that I was like, 16, 17 years old. And I started travelling internationally. And that was it. I mean, those days are kind of gone. You're not showing up in a place with no onward ticket without documentation. I mean, it was very easy. Back in the day, we used to cross the border between Canada and the states with just a birth certificate. I didn't even need a passport back then. But certainly a lot of things have changed. Now I've lived in, Okay, let's let's take a couple of examples. Sure. I lived in New Zealand, I was there for one year, I did a working holiday visa. In my early 20s. I had the legal right to live and work in the country on a temporary basis. Okay, pretty simple. When I moved to Australia, I also once again did a living, working holiday visa. So I had the legal right to live and work in the country. From there, I did a bridge bridging visa. And then I did what was called a 457 skilled migrant worker visa. It's since been replaced with other visas. But I lived in Australia for three years. 


Mikkel  

Now, when I left Australia, I thought you know what? I want to go live in Singapore. I've been working this whole time I have skills, I built myself up, I'm going to show up in Singapore and ask for a job. Well, so I got to Singapore. And although there were companies that would give me a job, no one wanted to sponsor me. So I did not have the legal right to live and work in the country. And what ended up happening was I had to leave the country every 30 days. So I would do a visa run. I would go to Johor Bahru in Malaysia, I would go have ice cream, I would go for a movie, and I would turn around and I would come back. Well, I had to do that I think for about 10 months before I found a company that would sponsor me. Then we went through the sponsorship program and started working for them. And it turns out, I actually hated the job. And I didn't have any recourse because they were my sponsor. So when I ended up leaving that job, several months later, I had to leave the country. And that was it. So I've always recommend to people now if you're going to be doing these types of things, try to do it in a way which is a lot more sustainable. Okay, digital nomad visas, you know, they're great working holiday visas, they're great, but there might be for a maximum of 12 months. Now, if you can put yourself in a situation where you're going to be able to pick up a permanent residency, like I have here in Panama where I am today. Actually, I have the legal right to live and work in here forever, till the day that I die. And they can't take that away from me. I mean, it's it's in the law, I have my cedula. I'm here, and this is my life. Now eventually, I do get to qualify for citizenship. I'm about three years into a five year programme to get my citizenship here. I think that that's a great opportunity. But with some of these other programmes, you really have to look at it because not all visas, not all residences are created equal. Does that make sense?


Allen  

Yeah, it does. And it brings something something else I've heard and maybe you can help our audience understand Panama a little better. I've heard great things about Panama as a banking and perhaps even a medical centre for the region. Can you What drew you to Panama, of all the places that you've seen? And is it tied in to some of the money aspects that you share with other folks?


Mikkel  

Sure, okay. Let's, let's break down first, the reasons why I came to Panama and then some of the strengths that Panama has. So I was based out of Abu Dhabi. I lived there for eight years. My wife was in the Middle East for nine years. I was there for eight years. And I loved my time there. It was amazing. It was a safe, it was a beautiful place. Now go back a couple of years, and the US was getting quite aggressive. It looked like they were going to invade Iran. They were moving their Armada into the Persian Gulf. And it was a little bit of a scary time. Now the UAE is an ally of the United States, they have military bases and air force bases. There's an Italian Air Force base there. And, you know, we didn't like being in a situation where this could be a staging ground for invading another country. Add to that, that if any type of recourse were to happen. We literally live in the middle of the desert. This whole desalinated water, they don't grow their own food for the majority at pretty much everything is brought in. The energy Yes, most of is based off of gas and they're building nuclear power plants. They're they're building 11 nuclear power plants, which the majority of that energy is already slated to desalination of the water, which just makes it an absolutely massive target. So I looked at all of these things and went yeah, you know what, I don't feel so safe here anymore with all of this going on. 


Mikkel  

So we started looking around the world and we looked at the Thailand at the Thai elite visa. It's basically a long term tourist card, which, you know, for the same reasons that I mentioned before, did not really speak to me. And we looked at a couple other countries, the Malaysia my second home, which was also a tourist card, and look what's happened now the the M2H visa, they've completely changed it, they've changed the requirements from to two and a half $1,000 to $10,000 a month of remittance back into into Malaysia. But Panama had this programme at the time called the Friendly Nations visa, I was like, wow, this is amazing. You can get a visa in the country. And once again, I say at this time, because things have since changed. But it was a $5,000 bank deposit, and you did a company formation. Now from that, two months later, you do a temporary residency two months later, a permanent residency you get your schedule, and that's it, for all intensive purposes, you're Panamanian. I mean, okay, you don't have the travel document, you can't go to Europe or something on your Panamanian cedua, sure, everything else is available to you. So they have fresh water, they have beautiful fruits and vegetables. It's a USD economy. It's completely developed. I mean, they say it's a third world country or developing country. I mean, I don't feel any different living here than if I were to spend time in Florida or something like that. Yes, it is hot and humid, I will grant you that it is absolutely hot and humid here. It's a tropical place. But they have world class beaches there. They have nature, they have animals, flora and fauna. They have everything. And as you mentioned, they do have a fantastic medical procedures. So we have Panama Pacifica, it's about five minutes from our our house. And it's an internationally recognized hospital, with doctors that are all trained in the United States and Canada. And when we moved over here, and unfortunately, my wife had to have surgery, that's who we went to. And it's affiliated with John Hopkins, to John Hopkins Hospital. So, I mean, that's an amazing opportunity. And when you add to the fact that the cost of living here is, I don't know, one quarter one half of what it might be in Canada and the United States that you can eat all organic food all all year round, because they basically don't have money to pay Monsanto. So you're actually healthier. So you don't need to go to the doctors as often, which means your insurance premiums should be a lot less as well. I mean, it's nice weather. So you're outside exercising. It's it's fantastic here, I really liked Panama a lot.


Allen  

Well, it's interesting, I've heard, you know, Panama came to our attention because people were doing medical tourism to Panama and Costa Rica because of that level of care at a wonderful cost. The other thing I've heard is that there's is a quite a banking center too. And that's another area that that's of note. So I love you know, how you wade off one location that might you might not see as rosy a future. I've heard great things about Panama of the other places, and you've been to so many different countries. So obviously, Panama has some special things. Are there other countries that you feel are like Panama that are kind of underappreciated opportunities? That and obviously, I hear Costa Rica a lot, I hear Croatia, you know, I hear the Estonia is the world but you you probably have a great worldview of maybe five or 10 places that our digital nomad audience might want to focus in on have added Panama to the list.


Mikkel  

Absolutely. And just to wrap up Panama before we move on to the other countries understand that most people believe that the Panama Canal is what produces a lot of the income here. And it does, it's about $4 billion a year. But the banking sector produces close to $11 billion a year. So it really is a hub of the banking sectors. So as you can think of it like Singapore of Latin America. Add to that, that they have now modified their friendly nations visa, it's now a $200,000 real estate investment, opposed to that $5,000 bank deposit money that has to sit in the bank account. But some of the other countries that I really like well, I just got back from six months of living in Brazil. I had a phenomenal time there. We were living in Florianopolis. It was very safe. The weather was amazing. It was actually nice to get down to some cool weather for a little bit. They also offer a residency by investment program. It's a $200,000 real estate, very similar. It's actually a 1 million reals. But if you do the, the conversion, it's about 200,000 US and we help people with those program as well. Brazil had amazing food, a wonderful people. We made a whole group of friends there. And my wife and I actually decided to give birth to our second child in Brazil. So what happened was we flew down a couple months in advance. My wife is from mainland China. So we actually had to go to Costa Rica first to get her visa to go to Brazil. So we did that we're about in Costa Rica for about three weeks, went down to Brazil gave birth amazing experience. The doctor spoke English nurses were lovely the facility was very nice. We went completely private. We didn't we don't use social healthcare, social medicine, we always use private. We have, you know, top level insurance ourselves and we love it. And we lived there for I guess probably another three or four months after the baby was born, we got all his birth certificate and passport and everything. And then we flew back here to Panama. And now being the legal guardian of a Brazilian citizen, we automatically get our permanent residency and we have a fast track to get our citizenship. So in two years, we'll actually get our Brazilian citizenship as well for quote unquote, free you know. Say that again,


Allen  

I was just gonna say Do you think there's advantage to have multiple citizenships? And of course I've I've heard distinctly different views on it's great to have multiple citizenships. But the US one is very difficult one because tax wise, it really absolutely can hurt us in.


Mikkel  

US is the only country in the world that taxes their citizenships based on citizenship, not on residency or territorial location. I mean, well, there is also Eritrea in Africa, but Eritrea is known for blatant human rights violations. So I will leave you to to make your conclusions about the US and their system based on that. But I'm a Canadian citizen, I don't hold a US passport. Thank goodness. So I don't have to have any of these problems. So yes, we do collect lots of residency, lots of citizenships, it opens up the entire world to us. And I mean, there are certain places that are closed, like let's continue on with the example of the United States. I mean, you can't go to Iran, you can't go to to North Korea. I mean, I've been to both. I had an amazing time. And both of them. I went to both of them for I think I was in Iran for about two weeks, and 10 days or 11 days in North Korea. Now, do they have cooky governments and you know, lots of weird stuff going on there. Absolutely. But at the same time, they have amazing people and amazing cultures and amazing history. And a country is more than just its government. If we only based our judgement on a country based on their government, well, there's a lot of a lot of places we could point our fingers at. But I had a really great time in those places. Now, with everything that's happening with COVID, there's a lot more restrictions, if you're coming from, quote unquote, a high risk country. I mean, getting into Europe, these days can be very difficult depending on which passport you have. So if you have a second passport, if you have a second travel document, who knows, maybe that will help you. I'm not here to give individual advice or individual tax advice. But you know, if if people have questions about these things, absolutely reach out to me. I mean, come to ExpatMoneyShow.com There's a contact us form. And I'll do my best to help you guys. But in my opinion, yeah, there is a lot to be said about having more options, not less.


Andrew  

This year to you. Let's say this year at the tax


Allen  

on the digital nomad visa, we have a lot of folks that are working with different countries to try to get those visas in place. Some of the folks have even been on the podcast, working with the countries about getting Wi Fi put in other things like that, what's your feeling kind of over the next two or three years once COVID hopefully dissipates, that the the future of mobility. And certainly, you in your money show you talk quite a bit about taxes and stretching your money making money. What do you think are the opportunities there in many of those areas in the next two or three years? If somebody was looking for low hanging fruit, if there is there may not be in your mind, what would you suggest somebody to take a look at right now?


Mikkel  

Well, definitely I like more options. And I'm glad that these visas are opening up. Now there's a lot of things that people need to understand about them. I mean, it's not a permanent solution. I mean, some of them, you can do more than one time, but lots of them it's a one time, then that's it. I mean, the other thing that you really need to worry about is if you're spending more than 183 days in the country, I mean, it better be written in there that you're not you don't have a tax obligation to them. Otherwise, you can take a visa that might cost you $50 or 100 euros or something like this. Take it from the cheapest visa in the world to the absolute most expensive visa in the world. If you need to pay, I don't know, a 20% flat tax, and you're doing a million dollars a year for your business. I mean, that might cause a big problem where you can do citizenship by investment. I mean, I do citizenship by investment with my clients. There's five carat, five countries in the Caribbean and Vanuatu, all of them come in way less than that price. And that's instant citizenship. That's not a 12 month visa. And those are all tax free countries. So I mean, navigating these different types of things has a lot more benefit to it. You want to go live in the Caribbean? Well, I mean, you can pick up a passport for that you don't need to go into a country and pay so much taxes like I'm looking at Estonia and Georgia and some of those countries, which were also very, very high on the digital nomad trail. And I and I think they're great countries, but just be very mindful about what the laws and the regulations are there.


Allen  

So let's drill down on that, because that was a area in the United States that came up, which was, you know, somebody who has that's foreign, it's $100,000 can come into the country and be on the path to citizenship. I know Costa Rica, I had quite a few folks. I believe even Canada, could you explain just deeply the concept and, and because I think a lot of folks are not familiar with the path to citizenship by having enough assets, or I guess paying a one time fee? What's your feeling on that? And I think this is a hugely educational opportunity for people out there. Because it is a unique area, 


Mikkel  

Let's take one step further back, let's, let's quickly quickly outline the different ways that you can get to citizenship. And there's there's roughly four different real ways that you're going to be able to do it. So the first first one is by ancestry. So your parents are from Poland, they're from Italy, from Ireland, something like this, your grandparents, maybe even maybe even your great grandparents, you might be able to claim a citizenship through ancestry. Okay, that's one way. Then you have citizenship by naturalization. So naturalization is the process of living in a country for a designated amount of time. So, take me as an example, I'm doing my naturalization process here in Panama. And I'm doing my naturalization process in Brazil at the same time. So I live there for a certain amount, you know, Panama's five years, I have a fast track for Brazil, it's two years after that I make an application, it's not automatic, you actually do have to apply for it. In Panama, the the application actually circles basically all of the desks in the government, even the President himself has to sign off on it, you know, it can take six months, can take a year, can take two years, we'll see how it goes. And with all of these ones, you actually have to show that you really do want to be, you know, a Panamanian, a Brazilian a Costa Rican, a Belizian, a Mexican, etc, etc, etc. You're not going to be able to just go there, spend one day every year and then leave and expect in five years, you're going to get your passport, they want to want to show those see those strong, strong ties. Add to that there's going to be language requirements, you're going to have to do some type of oath of allegiance. There's a lot to it. But it is a very affordable process, but it takes a longer period of time. So that makes sense?


Allen  

Yes. 


Mikkel  

So the next way is called citizenship by investment. Sometimes people call it instant citizenship. And what what happens is you make a sizable contribution to the economy. Now that might be a donation to the government, which is the case in most of the Caribbean countries, there's five Caribbean countries, it could be a real estate investment, it could be building a business, it could be a government bond, it could be some type of a fund. There's different options in different countries, and it will go anywhere from $100,000, up to $10 million. Austria is $10 million for a contribution to the country to become a citizen. Now, you might think to me to yourself, Wow, that's, you know, so expensive. $10 million, or multo 1 million euros. Yeah, absolutely. It is a lot of money. But think about if you were from Vietnam, or India, or China, or one of these countries that has a passport with Visa free travel to 81 countries or something like that, which is the case with my wife's pan, Chinese passport. That's how I know that. So this can open up like a massive amount. I mean, I travel normally on a Canadian passport, it's 183 countries visa free travel. So I get to most of the countries in the world. But there's still a couple of countries. I don't go. I mean, there's also what happens if I'm applying for a visa, and I don't have my Canadian passport. And I still need to travel somewhere. What happens if I lose my passport. I mean, there's a 15 month delay at the moment with getting Canadian passports. I know, American passports have massive delays as well. There's lots of countries who are not issuing right now, because of COVID. All the embassies are closed, they're completely backed up. So if your passport expires, if you lose it, if it gets stolen, well, you don't have that as well. So instant citizenship can make sense for the right person. It also opens up the opportunity to live in that country in the Caribbean, you can actually get one of those passports and live in some of the neighbouring countries. So it's not just that one country, you actually have opportunities to travel in other regions. And then the fourth and kind of final way and I and I count this as the other, the other way of getting passports is to do something slightly different like we did by giving birth in Brazil. You can also marry someone if your spouse is Mexican. Well, then you can actually pick up a Mexican citizenship. If you're from anywhere in the world and you can show your lineage to Judaism. You can actually get right of return and you can get an Israeli passport. There's more to it, but it's possible. Actually, if you're Jewish and you go to Spain or to Portugal, I think Spain's changed the program, but in Portugal, and you can show your lineage back 300, 400 years and show that your ancestors were living there, you can actually get a Portuguese passport. So there's all these kinds of little different tricky ways that you can get. And with all of these four ways, I work with my clients on the best way to get one or two or three citizenship by investments or or ancestries, or residencies or these types of things. And it comes into this giant, holistic plan that's based on everybody's individual needs. Do you understand?


Allen  

Yep, well, I think where it's come up is, I have friends that have lived in places that there was dislocation, like if you feel the government is tenuous, or your position in there, and then people move their assets, and they buy that citizenship for lack of a better term. And then they have a safety net, which I completely respect and understand. And obviously, to the country that allows this to happen, you're also bringing very smart people typically into your economy that help you also. And I certainly know that


Mikkel  

entrepreneurs, PhDs, educated people, people who are going to add value. Now, I mean, your background is insurance, you can think about citizenship by investment or having a second passport as political insurance. And that's how I view it, you know, you hopefully never need it, you never want it. But you're going to be done glad that you have it if the time arises. So you can think of it as political insurance.


Allen  

I think I think it's a really, really cool thought on that. So we ask our guests that join us to describe perhaps an overlooked person, place or experience that you would suggest our listeners discover. I'm really excited to hear your thoughts on maybe something that you feel is overlooked beyond this wonderful conversation. And I think it's a completely overlooked area of having multiple citizenship, etc. But hopefully, something that you feel that we've overlooked that would be really helpful to people or just interesting.


Mikkel  

For, for country wise for travelling, you know what, I started getting involved in a in a nonprofit called 1018. And they're based out of Uganda, I had an opportunity to travel through Uganda, probably about six or seven years ago, and just fell in love with this country. It was so amazing. The people were out of this world. They were very humble, very down to earth. But big smile, very quiet, but just amazing, amazing, amazing people. And we actually went there to go hiking and go visit the silverback mountain gorillas there. Sure, we went to Burundi. And we went into into the Congo, and just crossed the border and some of those countries and Rwanda, right, we were kind of right at the tip between Uganda, Rwanda, and you and the Congo. And I just fell in love with this place. I thought it was so amazing. So earlier this year, I started working with a nonprofit called 1018. And they've had a lot of problems in Uganda because of all these COVID restrictions. And these people really have nothing. So I think you guys should actually check out an interview I did with a woman named Jennings Wright on my podcast at ExpatMoneyShow.com. It is a very emotional story. But it was enough to really motivate me to make a change, and a lot of the things that we do. So now we're an official sponsor of this, and now I'm working with them on a weekly basis to really grow this nonprofit. So I think that, you know, a lot of those places in Africa have some amazing things to offer with some lovely people. And I encourage people to travel because also, if you do travel through those countries, you're giving money directly to entrepreneurship. Every time you stay at a hotel, every time you buy food every time you use a taxi, those are all money that's going directly to the nonprofit that I work with 100%. I mean, 100% of the money goes to the country, goes to the people involved. There is nothing that goes to the administration. We're all volunteers who provide this.


Allen  

I think that's tremendous. And, you know, my co host, Andrew Jernigan ran a nonprofit hospital in Ghana for four years. And Africa is a place that we think really has been underappreciated, and I really appreciate your feedback. Well, this this has been fantastic today, I really appreciate the insights I recommend to many folks to catch up on the Expat Money Show where were other places folks can find you, or is that one of the first and best ways to get to know you better?


Mikkel  

Sure, I'll give you three places. So the first is I encourage you guys to pick up my book. I was very humbled. It made it to a number one bestseller. It's called Expat Secrets: How to Pay Zero Taxes, Live Overseas and Make Giant Piles of Money. Super humble title. I know, I'm a humble guy. That's how I roll. vOkay, but yeah, it's probably about three or four years old, but the the content is completely evergreen. It's helped literally tens of thousands of people and I constantly get good feedback. So you can find that on Amazon. It's called Expat Secrets. Otherwise check out our podcast is found on all popular podcasting apps. We've been going for about five years now. We've had people like Jim Rogers and Grant Cardone on the show, lots of big big names and you can go to ExpatMoneyShow.com to find that. And then the last one is I have a new business partner, and we're actually starting an online high school for expat families. So if you're a digital nomad and expat, in someone who lives International and you have children, we have a programme that's from ages eight to 19. My business partner has been in education for over 30 years, working with Montessori schools, he's actually regarded as one of the most how to say, the one of the most developed course curriculum developers in the world and he does an amazing job. His name is Michael Strong. If you guys go to ExpatSchool.io, you'll be able to find out more information. It's completely private school. It's really based on Socratic thought and ideas. It's the full name of the school is actually Expat International School of Freedom and Entrepreneurship. So we teach a lot of entrepreneurial ideas. And I'm super excited about this. It's actually I would say, probably the best thing I've ever done in my life. And if you heard the beginning of my story on how I dropped out of school at a very young age, you can probably guess how, how I feel about education and how I don't want what happened to me to happen to other kids out there. And we really tried to provide an opportunity. It's, it's really amazing. So that's that ExpatSchool.io.


Allen  

Fantastic. Well, thank you for joining us today. I learned quite a bit first off, wonderful podcast, but also, you know, interested and excited to visit Panama someday. And certainly, I've spoken to many different expats, business travellers, digital nomads, having a second passport is very valuable. So some would even call it quote unquote a drop passport, just like they cover they have a drop wallet for certain situations. I like it was kind of described as insurance. Political insurance is a great way of putting it so wonderful conversation today. We hope you enjoyed today's podcast. Remember The New Nomad's not just a podcast, it's a community of people, ideas and spirit. Hey, helping you take advantage of that location independent lifestyle, keep traveling, stay safe, and we look forward to catching up to you next week. Cheers