Wisdom Rising

From Therapist To Shadow Witch: Healing Through Alchemy

• Christine Renee and Shantel Ochoa • Season 4 • Episode 12

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A winter squall hit the moment we sat down to record—perfect timing for a conversation about meeting the storm without losing yourself. We welcome Lacee Gengenbacher, a licensed mental health counselor turned shadow witch, to explore how shadow alchemy transforms fear, shame, and reactivity into clarity, choice, and real power. Together we unpack a grounded path from talk therapy to parts work, somatic intelligence, and sacred journeying—practices that turn “I don’t know” from a roadblock into a guide.

Lacee shares how Internal Family Systems helped her listen to protectors instead of battling them, and how curiosity plus love creates room for the shadow to reveal its gifts. We discuss the difference between ego advice and channeled guidance, what it means to be the “hollow bone,” and why triggers are invitations to alignment rather than proof of failure. A powerful story about her son on the basketball court shows compassion in action, while a raw account of neighbor conflict becomes a lesson in boundaries, cords, and redirecting energy back to source.

In this episode we explore:

• living the storm metaphor with intention

• moving from licensed counselor to shadow witch identity

• IFS parts work reframed as alchemy

• somatic cues as truth signals in the body

• journeywork as a container for the “I don’t know”

• triggers as invitations to alignment not shame

• cords, protection, and redirecting energy to source

• compassion in conflict and community dynamics

• shop as portal: tools, tarot, spell bar, and sessions

• practical ways to witness and release shadow

We also step inside Mountain Witch, Lacee’s Bozeman shop—a portal for practical magic. From tarot for direction to shadow alchemy sessions and a hands-on spell bar, the space is designed to help you slow down, hear your body, and anchor new beliefs with ritual. If “positive vibes only” has ever felt hollow, this conversation offers another way: receive the energy, learn its message, alchemize what’s heavy, and decide what stays. Subscribe now, share this with a friend who’s ready to meet their shadow, and leave a review telling us which part of you is asking to be seen next.

Visit https://www.mountainwitchmt.com/ for more information! 

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Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the podcast of Moonrising Shamanic Institute. Join shamanic Reiki practitioners Christine Renee and Chantel Ochoa as we dance between worlds of shamanism, mysticism, and energy healing. Each week we illuminate your path to self-sourced wisdom and attune you to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Welcome back to Wisdom Rising. I am your host, Christine Renee, and today we have a guest on Lacey Ganggenbacher, who is a shadow witch. So we talk about all things shadow and how to alchemize that energy. Really noticing her career path has shift from being a mental health counselor and into the full shadow witch and helping her clients, opening her mountain witch shop, and really recognizing how to alchemize the energy within us and around us. And so I hope you enjoy this episode. We are gonna go right into a little clip from today, and then we are gonna dive into the episode. And if you are in Bozeman, Montana, I do highly recommend that you check out her mountain witch shop here in Bozeman, Montana for all of your witchy tools and needs. And know that she is also available for one-on-one sessions that are extremely delightful. I just love the way she works with clients. So with that, enjoy today's episode.

SPEAKER_01:

This entire conversation that we've had today is about expansion. Right? Yeah. It's about noticing all of the energies that keep us oppressed, that keep us in those negative beliefs that say, I'm too much, I am not enough, I am too small, it will never happen. You know, you know, you can even just feel the energetic heaviness of that, right? It is literally walking into the winter squall and saying, What's here? Bring it on. And then moving forward. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome back to Wisdom Rising. I'm your host, Christine Renee. And today we have a special guest. I'm really excited to have Lacey Gangenbacher on, who is a licensed mental health counselor and a shadow witch. And I'm really excited to have her on. She is not only one of our soul rising graduates, but she also has a little witch shop in our town that I love to frequently visit. And so I'm really excited to have you on because you have such a such an energy. And I just love how you have shifted in your own shadows to what you offer today. And I can't wait to get into your story. So welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01:

I am so honored to be here. Um we uh we've got a winter squall that joined us um for this time together. So it feels really exciting and moving and and empowered to be here.

SPEAKER_00:

Like we I literally walked out to the parking lot to walk her in, and the weather was perfect. There was no, there was barely even a breeze out. And the moment we stepped into the house, our phones went off. That we have a winter squall warning happening right now. And um, I feel like it's very, it's very telling.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I so what I know is that in my own journey and in the journey of the other beings that I interact with daily, things are moving and things are shifting. And and um I'm excited that I'm more at a stage in my life that I get to say what that means for me. Yeah. And where I go and where I plug in and what it looks like, right? If it's gonna move, I get a say.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's kind of like once you've kind of been in the storm, you can kind of understand how it moves and where it wants to throw you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Yeah. And and part of that there becomes a space of going, where am I allowing? Where am I focusing? Yeah, how am I shifting? How am I letting the breeze blow things out that no longer serve me? Yeah. And where can I find solid ground again? Right? Like there's a balance in that metaphor of the storm.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, what's shifting for me and when I'm so excited to like talk about my progression as a practitioner and and how I exist is that I really experience the storm a little bit differently than I have before. It's a storm, I know it's a storm. Um, I know what I'm doing because I've been through so many, I'm pretty good on my feet. Yes. Um, so I it becomes a dance more than it does being thrown around. Yeah. Like, how do you feel the flow? How do you listen to it? How do you move with it? How do you take the energy that is present in your world and direct it where you want to go instead of where you don't want to go? Right?

SPEAKER_00:

Or resistance.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it almost um feels like a little bit like the way the language you're using feels like a keto. You know, I love that, right? Like a keto is all about bringing the energy in and utilizing it to move where you want to direct it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And honestly, actually, I just um saw a really magical person in our community um last Monday, and she gave me the most beautiful metaphor. You know, I in my growth, in my change in my work, you know, I can energetically feel that the more visible I am, the more energies are sent my way. Yes. Whether they are, you know, loving, encouraging, supportive, or ooh, you know, fear or um maybe even hate. Just, you know, again, the more authentic you are, the more authentic you are. Yes. And you don't get to say what other how other people react to your authenticity, you know. So this woman, and and for me, that feels like protections, right? And how do I feel something coming in and what do I do with it? And I don't want it all to attach to me because it's not all mine. Yeah. And so she helped me shift my protections and my boundaries to exactly what you're saying, right? How do you feel that it's coming in and receive and let it go? Yeah. Right. Not even a no, just a I honor that what you're doing is what you're doing, and I don't have to take what isn't mine.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It's like and in it, and that a keto always feels like a dance, right? Like, and I think there's a beautiful understanding of how do we dance with the energy, how do we dance with the shadow, how do we dance with the darkness? Yeah. Because we all have it. I think all of us. I think that's what I think so much of what humans in general are waking up to of recognizing like there is this shadow aspect, and it's not something that I need to turn away from anymore. You know, I think there's been so many years and so many people who have spent their lives of in avoidance and or in the fucking thick of it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Almost reactively. Yeah. Right. Almost like the all or nothing. Yeah. Right. And I think part of my great like love of shadow and light and the cycle is like, hey, it doesn't have to be one or the other. And it doesn't have to be all or nothing. How do you dance instead of fight? Right. And I and I think there's been really good reasons why parts of us had had have historically had to be kind of cut off a source, you know, suppressed, minimized, and have been oppressed, you know, and there's been a lot of really important reasons why our protectors have kept us out of that, right? It just feels energetically like it's time, it's space. Yeah. There is um energetically things being held that it is time to go get those other parts, that deep wisdom, that deep magic, that like the place where the power lives, and bring it back into the light and and into source and into us and use the power of the message in it and alchemize the parts that we're ready to get rid of and use it to move us forward.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. So I would love to know what your process was like and all that. Oh man, yeah. I know you have a story, and I would love to hear what pieces that you want to share as you really moved. And I witnessed this in my knowing of you, of really moving from a counselor into fully embracing the shadow witch as an identity, as a person who has space to hold for others in that in that identity.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it has been um grueling and vicious um and beautiful and really full. So I mean, I became a counselor um because I had so much trauma to heal. Yeah. Right. Like it literally was I'm either gonna stay where I come from and just be in these cycles forever, or I have to find different ways to do this, right? And I was also called to like take care of my people at the same time. So I just needed more tools.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. So I became a counselor and learned so much good information. I mean, just changed my life forever, right? Gave me a foundation that I didn't quite have before. Yeah, right. And so I've been doing that for like 15 years. And um, and before that I was doing it, I just wasn't didn't have the title of counselor. Um, but anyways, so and then I built a really beautiful practice here. I mean, like I was at like I didn't have to market much, I was full all the time. I was in helping families who had experienced a ton of trauma. And I loved it and I was so good at it. And I like sought out the best trainings, right? Like Janina Fisher's and Bessel Vander Koelk and Bruce, like all of the the leading trauma therapists and and seekers of wisdom, like I have been to, you know, the Dan Siegel, I just so much, and it took me so far. And then in 2015, this is probably where the huge shattering really happened. This is this is the start of my third eye opening.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, in in a different way than it had been before. Um, my daughter was diagnosed with cancer, and I was pregnant with my son, and we had to like uproot our lives and move to a different place to like literally fight for my child's life for a year. It's literally the biggest work that I do in my own is like meditating back to moments to spend with her because holy shit, she went through so much. Yeah, like it's insane that this body has survived that storm. Yeah. And so in that breaking and opening, that's when like all of the parts of who I was was shattered. And so, like, even who I was pretending to be got shattered, right? All the like, so when I came back in, I couldn't just be a therapist anymore.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

It wasn't working for me.

SPEAKER_00:

There's certain times and spaces in your life where you can't hold on to the mask. Like there's like it just can't, you can't uphold it. Yeah, like if you're falling apart, you and you are really in a place where everything is is crumbling around you, there's no way to hold on to I couldn't. Yeah, of course, right?

SPEAKER_01:

It was the shattering of the mask, right? Yeah, it was that coat quote from Mary Magdalene, yeah, right? It was the going down, and when you go down to source, not only is everybody else's expectations or or kind of requirements of who I am shattered, like all of mine are shattered too, right? And so it uh it took me a long time to heal. My daughter's healthy and beautiful and um finds her voice more and more every day. Um, and that's a nice way to say it. Gosh, she can be a butthead. Um, she's calling on all my shadow parts to be attended. And yes, our friend do do that. Oh, yeah. She's she's a and she's also the most loving, grounded being that I've ever met on earth. Um, so she's great. And I had to find a different way to be a healer and an adventurer that was more true to who I was, because it it counseling took me as far in my healing journey as it could. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and then I had to open different parts of myself to fully understand all of it. Because I have experienced so much that I have probably what people call diagnoses that are pretty treatment resistant, right? Like, I mean, addiction, I come from addictions, uh, you know, I come from all kinds of stuff.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So I've had to find different ways to access and heal because I'm a punk rocker. I don't take no, yes, or an answer. Yeah. Right. And so then I started just trying to find alternative ways, right? Emotion focused therapy started getting me really connected to the magic of emotions. And it really helped me like shall some of the too much energy I've always had around my emotions and embrace it a little bit more. And and IFS helps with like understanding parts and all these different things. Um, and then I started your program.

SPEAKER_00:

So before we get to my program, I just want to say that IFS is internal family systems. And it is one of my favorite little golden nuggets that has come out of recent therapy approaches where you really recognize the different parts of yourself, the different emotional energies of yourself and love all of it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, did I capture that correctly?

SPEAKER_01:

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, IFS work is like, let's give all parts of you a voice. If we give all parts of you a voice to understand purpose and intention with whatever energy is being called up, and we we stop isolating it and shaming it and excluding it from the conversation, right? It allows you to access more parts of you in all more areas of your world. Right. So it's like you might have this big, gnarly part of you that's a huge protector. And then and when they come in and do these protections, it kind of messes things up, you know? Yeah. And so then if you like shame it and hate it and see it as this ugly darkness, right, then it I mean, it it feels that and it gets bigger and it festers. And then it doesn't get to be part of the conversation. So if you're not listening to it, it makes itself part of the conversation. Right. Right. If you don't give me a voice, I'm gonna get louder and louder and louder until I'm heard. And sometimes I might burn the whole house down to be heard.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's why, you know, I've just, I just feel like there's an energy, a momentum, whether it's and now in the therapy world or in the spiritual world of like, we're we're not using healing language as much anymore. It's more about aligning, accepting, embracing all of it. Yeah. Right. And I think that's why I love parts work so much. Because, you know, we can talk to Chantel about parts work in in the in the at the angle of archetypes, right? Or we can do it for what where's the sadness? Where's the grief? Where's the joy? Yeah. And how can we feel multiple motions at the same time? Yeah. Because I think there was for a while, like, no, you can't actually do that. We're only in one energy at a time. And I'm like, I don't think that's true. Right? Like, and and so now it's kind of given a framework to say all of your parts are who they are, and how can we actually let them come to the surface, acknowledge them, love on them, and embrace them and and notice what wisdom they have.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Right. And I call that alchemy. Oh, I love it. Right. Yeah. That it to me is the alchemy. If you think about alchemy, right? You are you are using elements to shift something from what it is to something else. Yeah. To that process. Right. Through that. And so it's like what you're talking about is what being a shadow witch is. It is knowing and going to so many of my own shadow-rich parts with and seeing them not with shame and guilt and hate and you know, just all of those really low, heavy energies, but doing it with love, yes, and curiosity and understanding and empathy. It's taking that what precipitated that part of me to do that thing, play that heavy role. Right. And loving it so much, getting the message of like survival, thrival becoming from it, and letting go of not only the pain I feel, but maybe even the pain I caused. Yes, right. Right. Because I I have I have played really heavy roles in this cycle and in last cycles. Yeah. And in, you know, in different ways. And my people have played really heavy roles.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And I think that's also something that we don't bring our attention to of like what afflictions have I caused? Right? Like heavy. Because one, for a lot of people, it is so heavy to take the full responsibility of all of your energy. And how did I project? And how did I hurt? And how did I feel right? Like, how do I behave other people's energy, right? And still am our in the the habits or behaviors or patterns.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And bringing awareness allows us to bring what wasn't once in the subconscious into the conscious. Yeah. Right. And we have to do that work. The deep magic.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's like deep magic. That that's the stuff we came to get. That's the information we came, that's part of the human condition. Yeah. Is these big sensual emotional experiences, and it's all part of it. Yeah. And so for me, shadow alchemy is how do you love even the dark. Dark parts so that they have enough permission to come out and be seen and felt and heard. And how do you again decide what stays and what goes? Right. And then what do you do moving forward? Yeah. With your energy, with your purpose, with your power, with your frequency. You know, it's it is intentionality, it's empowerment, it is, you know, shedding all of the layers, whether they're mine, whether they're archetypal, what you know, right, wherever they come from, it's shedding them so that you can take accountability and responsibility and decide what you do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Yeah, I love it. Okay. So we moved through IFS. Yeah. You alchemized.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

And alchemized. And alchemized and alchemized. Yeah. And a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So I actually have a really cool example of what I mean by like loving your shadow parts. I'd love to hear it. Okay. So, and part of how I transitioned from counselor to what I am now is again just knowing that there was more to it, just having this call, this poll, because things weren't working the way I wanted them to. It it it wasn't a flow, it was a battle. And so part of that was doing soul rising with you and Chantel and Isabel. And um, and one of the journeys that we went to um was, I don't remember what it was for, what the intention or what we were doing, but it was like seeing I was standing in my journey and I was seeing a dark forest, right? With no light, but you could still see through, you know, so maybe it was twilight or something. And I just saw these large shadow parts like moving through it. And I felt the fear of them, right? That just like, oh my gosh, the fear of it. And then was grounded by the truth that I was being held energetically by all of you and and greeted it with curiosity, yeah, instead of fear. Like I'm solid, I'm sturdy, I'm gonna understand this differently. And then it this like wispy black, you know, shape with like red eyes turned into this like giant like shadow wolf, and like started like leaning up against me. And then there were more of them. And I in that moment when I when I grounded through the fear into the truth that all things are for me, they became allies. Oh, I love that. Instead of something to fear, and because I gave them the space to be truly seen with curiosity and acceptance and love, I could see their true shape. And they're these large wolves that just like then they all kind of came like packed, like they they they were like, I was part of the pack, finally, you know. And that's like the perfect analogy of going from the partial truth of a counselor into a shadow witch, right? Yeah, and that energy within me of knowing that my shadow is an ally for me, because of that, I just have so little judgment for other shadows and so much empathy and understanding that when I'm with people, that those parts of themselves just kind of naturally come to the surface, right? And and people are just like, Well, I've never told a single person that. Yeah. And I'm like, well, how does it feel to be seen in this way? Right. Right. The the the shadow which part is letting all parts of me gauge my surroundings and inform what I'm doing, and understanding that all of the things that historically would be labeled neurodivergence, ADHD, you know, these whatever words that we tried to label that you know, um, expansion of the brain and of the self and of our interactions with our senses, because to me that's all that really is. Like um, I understood things clearer. Yeah. And more intentionally. And so that's what it is to be a shadow witch. Listen to all parts of yourself, let them come up, slow it down with like love, acceptance, and grounding, and listen to what it's trying to share with you. Right. And what you're ready to release or alchemize, whether it's because you did it this cycle, you did it a past cycle, your family maybe did it, maybe you were part of like a collective time and space and time that did it. It's just about taking the heaviness and alchemizing it to light. And that's it.

SPEAKER_00:

That's it. Well, and I think the the key part of what you said that really stood out to me was like approaching it with curiosity and love. Right. Like there's a bit of if you are not available to witness, if you're still in your fear state, yeah, it's really hard to see with curiosity. Right. Right. And so much of the journey work, this is what we're pulling from, right? Is is recognizing one we're calling in the circle. We're making a really solid sacred space to do this work. Yep. This isn't done willy-nilly, right? So we've got we've got a container in which to do it. And then it feels like you're allowing to what needs to come to the surface to come to the surface. We're not digging, we're not going into the forest with a flashlight and forcing us to find something. No, that's not what's happening. It's just recognizing what's already there that's ready to be witnessed. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. Exactly. Back to like dancing, right? It doesn't have to hurt. Right. And if it's hurting, like why, why? Right. Like, let's listen to it. Like, let's listen to, and it's also, it's really like because of that safe container, it's allowing for a an alternative perspective of what has always been a certain thing, right? That story that we tell, that you know, the the truths that we attach ourselves to as people from like childhood um and even just now about safety. Like at some stage you have to be solid enough to question those.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. So and and being solid enough to question those, that leads to the curiosity, it leads to the openness that maybe there's something else going on. Maybe there's something, some wisdom in this that's available to me. Yeah. Right. And I think that's why having spaces in which we can get curious in is so vitally important to our expansion, to our consciousness awareness of who we truly are, isn't just the things that we present ourselves as. Right. Right. There's so many layers that make up Lacey, that make up Christine. Right. And so when we can fully recognize that it's not just all love and light. Well, it it can't be. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Like it it there, there is no way to differentiate to like it it just it has to be bold. That's part of this physical realm's truth.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yes. And I think that has been such a shift that's been ongoing into recognizing because we had this era of like positive vibes only. Right. Keep it love and light. And it's actually was really toxic, super toxic, right? And so then it was like, okay, well, that's not it. What is? Yeah. And I think that's where these pieces are starting to come forward. And I think I felt that the whole time doing journey work. Yeah. Because journey work allows what's in the subconscious to be shown. Yeah. Right. And so for a very long time now, I've been doing journey work. That's like, where are the pieces in myself do I self-sabotage? Where are the pieces in myself do I call myself a victim? Where in myself do I fill in the blank? Yeah. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And and journeying with you guys has been such a huge shift on my own practice. Because what I what I realized for a long time as a therapist was that I took so much responsibility for other people's journey and work. And like, I have to get them here, and we have to do this, and I have to, you know, all this, like really kind of like God complex stuff. Like, I don't have any right to say what this person's life's supposed to look like. That's not mine at all, right? Right. And and and through journey work, what I'm realizing is each of us have the becoming energy in already inside us. And it's all I have to do is create the right environment for people to come into alignment. Yes. I literally just get to be an adventurer with people. Yeah. And a space holder and help people listen to their truth and their knowledge. It's quite incredible, actually, what's happening. It's like, you know, when you lead somebody into a journey with an intention of understanding this different shadow part of themselves, and and they go in and they see it, feel it, know it, and understand it, listen to that shadow part of themselves and come out. Literally, you can feel their body realigning and healing in front of you. Yes. And guess all. And I didn't tell them shit. Right. Right. My opinion wasn't present at all. Yeah. Right. Now there, I'm not saying that in those moments that there aren't times when I maybe have received a message that could help the perspective shift a little bit. Like there's definitely a truth to that, right? Like that's kind of part of my clear, my Claire's helping me understand a different energy that's being exchanged that needs to be heard and understood differently.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Well, and it kind of feels like when those messages come through, they're coming through. It's not Lacey's opinion. Right. Right. Like there's a difference in that. And it's so hard to educate people who haven't experienced it. Yeah. You know, like what's the difference between here? I'm going to tell you this is what you should be doing versus this is what I'm getting, receiving from a higher source that has nothing to do with me. Yeah. Right. Like there's a huge difference between those two things because one has ego in play. One has this is what I think my opinion expects of you to do and shift and change into. Yeah. And the other one has none of that. Yeah. The other one is like, this is I am a clear vessel.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I am the hollow bone and holding space. That's the bone part, right? The hollowness is that allowing whatever wisdom needs to come through to come through. And sometimes you just need to be the hollow bone, and the bone is holding the space for whatever to organically flow through. Right. And then other times there is messages. There is, I need to place my hands here. Are you comfortable with that? Yeah. Whatever it may be. And it's like it's it's following some type of divine intelligence, some type of source energy that's with us to provide that space to allow the highest outcome possible. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And for me, I think a big way that has helped me know the difference is taking away my expectation of what my truth in that moment does. You know what I'm saying? Like, like I'm just gonna tell you what I'm seeing. I'm gonna tell you what I'm feeling, what I'm hearing, and I'm gonna put it out there and I'm gonna let you decide what you know about it. Yes. Right. Right. And then not like not only what you know about it, but listen to your body and and yourself and your congruence to tell us what we're gonna do with this. Right. And and really like I like I see things and I just say it and I'm like, I don't know if this is gonna make any sense to you, but whatever message is coming in, this is how I know how to explain it. Yeah. So it's it's a it's got an energy to it, right? So it for me, part of how I think I incorporate the empowerment piece is like I don't ever say to somebody, this is the truth. I say to somebody, this is the truth, this is my truth right now. Please pay attention to how that lands with you, right? Take what resonates, leave what doesn't. Yes, and notice what your body does with this. Yeah, right. Like almost like helping people's bodies be the pendulum.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And I think that's something. If I could teach that to everyone, of going, where do you feel that in your body and what does it communicate with you?

SPEAKER_01:

Is huge, which is somatic experiencing therapy. Exactly. Right? Right. We're just taking, and I think the shadow witch of it part is taking that somatic experiencing um intervention and really kind of energetically amplifying it and holding it energetically so that people feel safe to understand it while I'm energetically holding the truth of it and even sharing what I know about it to help them understand how that lives inside them. That's the shadow witch of it. Like we're literally gonna slow down and we're gonna feel the energy of what's happening in you. Yeah. And it stops being something that you are pulled down the river to, and it starts being something that you decide in the river where you're at.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Right. And I think that is um the kid, that's so powerful to let people know that they can observe where they're at when they're in it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And like where, and it's a it's huge. Like I'm sure you tell with your clients. There's you can tell when someone's, oh, I'm in my heart about this versus wow, this is stuck in my belly or my, you know, where is it in the body and how do they recognize what emotion is attached to it? Yeah. Does it move? Does it shift? Does it change color? Does it vibrate? Like all of those questions allows the participant to really witness where they're at.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And here's the cool thing all of those are still using like a so those are great interventions. And and for some people, those don't work. You're gonna get every time. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. That's when the journey becomes powerful, right? That's when you say, okay, you don't know, let's do a journey and see what you do know. Oh, I like let's go meet this I don't know energy because it's a protector. Uh-huh. It's a part of you. So then you go into a journey, you get them into there, and you say, Okay, the intention of this is to go meet that I don't know energy.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Because there's a part that's the protector that is the I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

And then when you're in that journey, you can do that same intervention again, but it's sacred because you're in there inside and not outside. Yeah. And then literally, what's so cool is you take, because in the in the therapy world, I'd hit I don't know's all the time, and I'd be like, Well, uh, what do you do now? Ask another question.

SPEAKER_00:

No, right. So ask another question. He's it just locks them down and he's like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01:

So it's like you're you're in a standoff, and that's also teenagers, right? So it's like leading them in so that they go in and collect information and can bring it out, and then they know. Yeah, and it clicks and they understand it, and it becomes an image to help them understand the truth of it. And it's honestly, I watch people heal themselves every day.

SPEAKER_00:

And isn't that such an honor?

SPEAKER_01:

Every day.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that work, every day.

SPEAKER_01:

What a blessing. And again, not heal, but just come into congruence with themselves, right? Right. Them come into their truth and be grounded in all of that fear, you know, rage, which is very important. And if you live there always, right, it's not yeah good for you. Right. So it's like, it's just cool. That's the that's the shadow itch part, right? Loving shadow parts so much that they can surface, being grounded in the truth that they there is nothing bad wrong about them, that this is where the gold is. So that I can hold the space so we could go understand it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So we can get the message from it, so we can alcan alchemize whatever pain or shadow or heaviness lives with it and let it come back in. Oh, such juicy work. So juicy. I feel it in my whole body. Yeah. As I say it even, you know, just the just the privilege of it, right? It's like the it's like the strength card in the Rider Wait, right? The strength card, she has this beautiful lion and it was once a monster. It was this big unknown beast that she was scared of, or she had to protect herself from or protect the world from, or whatever. Well, the strength card is you love that part of you so much that it becomes part of you. It becomes part of your love, your power, and then you have access to your wisdom. It's just so badass. So badass. And what a different way to live versus being stuck in a pattern that nothing will ever shift.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Right. And I think that's where the waking up is happening, right? People are done, people are tired of the patterns, people are tired of the habits. This is why self-help books and all of these things are are selling, right? People are like, how do I actually just love my body more instead of wanting to go get a facelift?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. You know, it's like, yeah, and that's why everybody's so rageful and I mean, yeah, really, like pissed off about it. We shouldn't be. We have a lot of things to be rageful about. Yeah. The issue is when we live there too long, you're not honoring all parts of yourself, right? Or all parts of the cycle or all parts of divine, right? Like everything has its role. And and and that's why I don't like I honor other people who live in rage. I get pleased if that's where you're called to be, I trust that that's where you're supposed to be. Right. You know, like, and I'm the kind of person that's like, I wonder if there can be more. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00:

It's that curiosity once again. I wonder, I wonder more. I wonder if they want to recognize other parts of themselves. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Because of how like maybe they're protecting their inner softness.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And here's the thing like sometimes we need that softness. Much as we need the rage. Right. You know, it's it it if all you're in is one emotion, you're not real, you know, um, it's kind of limiting the potential. Yes, right, right, right. Anyways, yeah, it's pretty cool. And and here's the other thing like just thinking about the storm that we're in right now and and the conversation we're having about shadow. It this isn't like, you know, shadow work is not skipping down the road always. I mean, sometimes it can be skipping with your monsters. Awesome. Sometimes it's tumultuous and it's painful. And um what it is, is it's going through those moments, knowing and claiming, not even knowing, just claiming, putting your claws into the truth that it is all for me, right? It is all, even this hard stuff, you know. I I have like the coolest example that I really want to share. Oh, yes, um, yeah. Because so the last um week, um, my son has been having some really heavy, challenging things at school. And he's nine, almost 10. And the last week, he was interacting with people in his world in a way that was making people laugh and getting him attention, but it was kind of belittling the other person, right? That the exchange was unbalanced, right? He was lifting himself up by kind of somebody else feeling bad. Yeah. And that's so against my core as a person. And it's so normal for a fucking nine-year-old. Yeah, I'll just say, right. You're learning, you know, and um, and so and it happened like three different times this week. And the goal for my husband and I was just love this boy enough, this human enough that he can pay attention to the lesson of what we're trying to teach him around how you don't take from people to make yourself better.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But not like feel so shamed that he gets lost in it. And that's been a really it's it's looked ugly, you know. The the by the third day, I got a call. I'm like, oh my God, why is this still happening? And like really easy could go into like, what am I doing wrong? Oh my gosh, look what I've done. And I just didn't. I just honored it and I just held it, and I just held him. And I was like, just help him understand how hurting people really does feel like shit to him. And then Saturday came and he was playing a basketball game, and the other team was like really good, and they were it was this heated basketball game, and the energy was intense, and like there was some chippiness from side to side, and the competition started getting heavy. And um, and my son's really good at basketball. And this kid on the other team was getting kind of frustrated by being kind of shut down, and he tackled one of the kids on our on our, like grabbed him around his legs and like tackled him to the ground a little bit. And the you could feel the energy building, right? And everybody's like, no, and the crowd's all upset about that. And and then the game kept going and it kept building, and and it was like 26 to 24, and I don't think the other team ever loses either because they were like not doing well, yeah. Yes, and um, and this same kid who had tackled another kid, um punched my son in the eye, put him in the headlock, and threw him to the ground. Wow. And of course, like I'm a little like street, so I stood up and I'm like, you know, I got all big and energetic, and you know, and and people around me were, and the crowd was actually kind of booing this kid, right? This nine-year-old boy booing him for getting his needs met in this way, yeah, right, which isn't okay. We don't do that, right? Right. And this kid is just trying to get his needs met, right? So the game can't, my son's crying and like upset, but still wanting to play. And so the game ends and we lose by two. And my son, as we're leaving, is still kind of like worked up and breathing hard. And I was like, man, like that was a tough game. And he was like, Yeah, that really hurt. That really hurt when he did that to me. And he goes, and you know what, mom? After the game, I went up to him and I said, Hey man, I get it. Good game, I get it, man. And he said, and he had tears in his eyes, and I had tears in my eyes, and we high-fived, and I just wanted him to know that even though he wasn't honoring all parts of himself, that I was still there with him. That's amazing. Because my son had just played a bad guy all week and had felt the energy of like hurting people and not honoring all parts of himself by trying to get his needs met. My son went through that hell week so that he could be the one energetic protective factor. Even that kid's coach was frustrated with him. Yeah, right, right, like my son got to say, Hey, I'm here with you with acceptance and love and understanding and strength, right?

SPEAKER_00:

And so this kid on the basketball team probably he probably didn't get that from anybody else.

SPEAKER_01:

Nobody else, right, but my son, yeah, because he had just bled the last week and knew how hard it felt to play those heavy fucking roles. That's shadow work. Go find the roles where either you played the bad guy or somebody else played the bad guy and alchemize the pain out of it and find the truth of it. My son got to show up for somebody because he knew what it was like to suffer. Yeah, right, alchemize it, attend to it, stop sleeping, stop numbing, right? Right, it's not the real world, you know? Yeah, it just was really powerful, and that is like the perfect example of shadow alchemy, yeah, the gold from the shadow, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, and it's such a beautiful display of recognizing all your parts, like they're not, they're not all, they're not all love and line and ooey ooey yumminess. Sometimes they're the hard, the hard parts, but even the hard parts are important, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Totally. With my son, when we went and and we kind of were curious about those moments where he had played the bad guy, like it was because he was feeling like he wasn't getting love or care, that he didn't have autonomy, he didn't have sovereignty, he didn't have his needs met. So he went to the place of meeting his needs in this heavy way. Like, listen, I don't I've I've personally experienced a ton of abuse in my life. I I have been the victim many times. I've also been the perpetrator many times. So what I've done in my own healing journey is those moments where I was victimized, like I don't hold resentments or hate for my, I understand that they had to play a heavy role. Yeah, to for me to learn that lesson. Right. So I forgive them because I know they're part of me and I am part of them.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And it goes back to there isn't a separation. That's right. If there, if there really truly isn't a separation, if everyone's energies are energies, how are our parts and their parts meeting each other? That's right.

SPEAKER_01:

Because I am you and you are me. So I cannot hate you without hating me.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. I have, you know, I have done a lot of forgiving of people that have played heavy roles in my life because I understand that if they are soul and they are source, like I believe they are. Think about how heavy it is on their source that they had to play that role. Yes, right. It's hard. I've played the monster. I know how I still play the monster. Uh my work is catching those moments that I still play the monster. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I feel like I really witnessed that in my first marriage, right? Like, and after it was all said and done, I left, I was doing the healing work, like I found my path forward. I go, he was my greatest teacher. Yeah. Right. Like he loved me so hard that he was able to put me through that situation so I can learn how to be who I am today. That's right. Like I signed up for that shit.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's also cord cutting, cord alchemy. Yes. Right. When that connection to that other entity, you decide what is exchanged, right? And actually, you guys helped me so much. I remember I was having the hardest time understanding the concept of cord cutting. Yeah. Because I think that if it's that big of a cord, then I wrote it in and I don't want to sever it. I want to understand it. But I have to cut the parts of it that aren't need alchemized. Yeah. So it's like you guys taught me that wonderful visual of, well, then take the cord out and plug it into something else. Right. Right. If you can't give it love because rightfully it's not yours to give right now because you are in rage or fear or hate or whatever, then take disconnect it from you and give it to source or give it to the earth so that at least that you're not feeding the darkness. Right. Right. Like, and you're saying I disconnect from the darkness and I feed it to light.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So that you're also not reinforcing the darkness. Right. Which is kind of back to like the shadow witch part too. Is like for the longest time, um, I was like casting energies and spells. Uh-huh. And calling on some really bad shit and doing some bad shit, you know, like even just like, you know, driving down the road and somebody cuts me off, motherfucker, you know, this, this, this, this, you know, like energetically putting judgment onto somebody else that I don't maybe they were hurrying home to get to something that was important. And I just added more darkness onto their path, right? Yeah. Like again, realizing that our thoughts are spells, and how do you pay attention? How do you starve the things you don't want to have? And how do you fuel the things you do want? Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, which also is very and I love that example because it goes to show like this isn't about positive tox toxicity, right? Like it's it's very much recognizing I have a choice. I have a choice in this moment. And I think that's where once again we have to break out of subconscious patterning where it used to just be natural. You just yell at the cars next to you. You just went. You just, yeah, you just do the thing. That's right. Right? It's reactive, reactive, exactly. And it's not, and it you just play that part and versus wait timeout. Yeah. Why do I have why do I have this reaction? Yes. What am I doing? Yep. What is my thought process here? And if I say this, think this, cast this, yes, what does that mean? Right. And so then you're thinking, and what's it plugging into you, right? Because it's reflective of us. It comes from me. Right. If I'm frustrated at another car, I have to go, what are they doing that frustrates my own self?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's it. How is my external world reflecting my internal world? And what is this trigger trying to tell me about how it's an triggers are opportunity to come into alignment? That's all they are. Right. There is a part of you that is misaligned, that is in reactivity. How do you go get that part and bring it back into source so that you are present and intentional every second? What do I say? You right? It's triggers are literally opportunities for wholeness.

SPEAKER_00:

That's it. And I love that refrain, right? Because there's an activation happening. Yes. And when we can get curious about that activation, then there's space to make a difference, to space to make a shift, space to realign. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And not maybe realign, not to make a difference in the external world, more the internal world. Right. So that no matter what storm is happening, I am solid. Yeah. No matter what, if I am in my truth, it doesn't matter what my external world is doing. That's part of the plan. Right. Right. Yeah. Like again, I think about another one of my great teachers right now is um a neighbor to my shop and just has been sending so much hate and yes, fear, just heaviness my way. But through the work of like noticing how that interacts with me and it plugs into me, it has shifted my boundaries and my protectors in such substantial ways that at this stage, I really believe her to be a close loved one of mine from past lives that agreed to come and help me be strong within myself to continue to walk the path forward that I have. Like, so now when I think of her, I actually have love and endearment and kindness. And guess what? Like, I don't know if she feels that, but I don't feel her her the darkness anymore.

SPEAKER_00:

And when just to kind of put this in perspective, so Lacey has her wit shop in a building, and you have to walk down this long hallway to get to it. And in that hallway, you pass other shop holders and you go into Lacey's shop and it's it's beautiful. It's I love the way not just the energy, but the decor in there just makes you feel held. Yeah. It's a portal. It's a portal. You enter into this energy, and like, oh yeah, I could hang out here for a while. But in that corridor, there was one of the other shop owners. I don't really remember what she did, but she's just been, she's it almost kind of put this energetic um cobwebs in the way to get to your shop energetically.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And and instead of turning it around and and on the rebound and of attack, it was, I'm just sending her love. I'm just sending her love. I'm just sending her love.

SPEAKER_01:

Because I'd even have like other people come in, like, do you want me to do something about this energy? And I'm like, no, no, like, you know, you don't have it, don't do anything. It is a witch shop after all. It is a witch shop after all. Like, no, no, no, please don't. Like, this is something that I needed to like alchemize and and be in with. Because again, when you open a witch shop, so many parts of me are being seen that have not been seen before in this truth. To stand in front of a group of people and say that you're a witch and then feel the energetic reaction of those people, whether it's ooh, what's what? Or um, or whatever it is, right? Like as a witch, you feel all of that. Right. So, really, this person has been teaching me how to stand strong in my truth, no matter what happens around me, and not only block or deny their truth, but make space for it because their truth is just as important as mine is. And back to the receive the energy, understand it, accept it, release it. Yeah, it all has value and truth. And I decide what stays and what goes. I love that. And it's and honestly, like I have so much love for her. Like this, this person is actually such a bad, she's such a sturdy badass, like pretty awesome, actually. And which is before I'd feel, I mean, like she was like locking the door to my business. Like when we say energetic, like she legit was like locking doors on people, right? Physically and like blocking the door, and you know, just doing all this really intense stuff and passive aggressive, um, really intense, right? And so it's like there was a truth to it, but I would get so activated by this energy. Like it was it was insane. It was like I was literally facing a tiger.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, and it's it's interesting because I remember when this was happening. Yeah, right. It's been happening for like the last eight months. And but there was a point where you're like, I need to find a new space. Yeah, yes. And there was a point where you're like, no, I'm staying and energetically gonna alchemize this, and we're doing it. We're staying, we're staying in the space and we're gonna make it work.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And there was a shift in your energy as well in that time of like, this is who I am. I don't care if people don't like me. This is who I am. And there was a liberation in your energy that made it more expansive.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And that's what we're talking about. Right. This entire conversation that we've had today is about expansion. Right? Yeah, it's about noticing all of the energies that keep us oppressed, that keep us in those negative beliefs that say, I'm too much, I am not enough, I am too small, it will never happen. You know, you know, you can even just feel the energetic heaviness of that, right? It is literally walking into the winter skall and saying, What's here? Bring it on, and then moving forward. Yeah, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, so engine is so cool. I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. It's so cool, it's fun.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, Lacey. I want you to let our listeners know if they were going to contact you to work with you, to buy your goodies. Yes, where would they go? What would what would it how do they how do they reach out to you?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Um, so I am in Bozeman. I am at um 19 North 10th Avenue, suite five. Um, it's in like the Wendy's red tractor parking lot. It's this awesome old building. It's got so much energetic character. Um, and I'm there Tuesday through Saturdays from noon to five, right? I'm always there at that time. So you can come into the space, get your tools. Like I have in the search for me having everything I need to feel ground. In my truth, I've curated all those items to sell to everybody else. Right. I've got a lot of people from the community that give me magical tools. I've got, you know, it's fed with the magic of this valley, which is insane.

SPEAKER_00:

And I've I've got to put in a hot, a hot advice here of you go in that store, you can't walk out with nothing. Right. Right? Like there, like I love your shop. Yeah. Because not only do I feel the local artist, like I'm a huge advocate for buying local and your store is absolutely full of it. Yeah. Right. So like I can go buy a jokester tea called Chill the Fuck Out Tea that my friends find hilarious to a leather bound journal that's artistry made and it's decent priced. You know, like I really find that the things that I find in your shop are not, they're really affordable for what they are. Yeah. Right. And so it's like, I love that you can go in and you can find something in your price range, you can put things together. Like there, I love that I can go in and be like, this is my budget. Yeah. I want to buy this gift for this person. What would that look like? Yeah. And on the top of that, like if you are really working through some shit, right? Oh, you have this really amazing spell bar on top of it. So it's like, okay, I want to bring an intention for this. I want to hold this with me. And you're putting in these really cool salts, stones and flower petals or whatever it may be to kind of energetically craft your spell that you can hold with you. Yeah. And so I think it's there's just a space for everyone. I really wanted you on the show before Christmas. Yeah. Because so many cool things.

SPEAKER_01:

You should come into the store. Yeah. Here's the other thing too about that store is that like people come in constantly and they're like, what do I need to get to this? Or what, you know, what do you recommend for this? And it's such an experiential place that I have people like you walk into the store and we slow things down. So your soul and intuition is telling you what you need. And then I share what I know about that, and you're and things just start clip together into it's a magical experience. It's magical. Yeah. This is my belief. If intense emotion can cause traumatic neuropathways, so can fucking the same type of energy and emotion do the same for new perk pathways. Right. And that's what that space space is. You know, it's really like what tools do you need in your world, whether it's jewelry, candles, herbs, you know, tarot, oracle decks, you know, all these things. What do you need to harness the truth of your power right now?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So that you decide what the steps forward look like.

SPEAKER_00:

And then are you, you're still offering sessions. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Okay. So um, so I do a cut, like the way I look at my practice now is it's kind of like a continuum of like, where are you at in your journey with self and your shadow and and how do we intervene with it, right? So I do do tarot work. And for me, tarot is like when people are like, I need some information, I really want it directed. You know, um, I need help with this direction. We're gonna do tarot and we're gonna understand the messages that are coming. And we're gonna also then bring those messages into your body so that you know the truth of what I'm saying or not saying, right? So it's really like, let's introduce you to your body, right? And then, and then I also, and in that there's some shadow alchemy that happens, right? Because we attend to things, things come up, and we go get them and we alchemize them, right? And bring them back into source. And then I do just like psychic consultation and shadow alchemy, right? We're not pulling cards, it's like you already know something's there and we're gonna go get it. Let's go get it, let's go understand it.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's already percolated to the surface.

SPEAKER_01:

You recognize you have an idea that there's something in your body somewhere, like you have a little bit more direction, yeah. You're like, I know, and so then it's like, okay, we're just gonna hold this container in space for you to go in and get stuff and bring it out.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And and reintroduce and alchemize and come into wholeness, right? Um, and then we have the spell bar, which is it's so yummy. Oh my god, it's like my favorite thing. So that's when you're like, okay, I've identified this shadow part. I know I'm I've listened to the messages of it, I understand what it's trying to say. It's time for me to shift, right? You're at the crossroads and it's time for you to take that path instead of this one, right? And so the shadow or the spell bar, it's like you let that energy be present in your body and come to life. And then you let your intuition choose the herbs, the gemstone sands, and the crystals. And while you're doing that, like there's some channeling that like messages are coming in to help us understand this frequency that you have present in your body. And sometimes that's from your ancestors, and sometimes it's spirit guide led. And you know, I mean, sometimes it's just soul speak, so that as you are standing there with this energy that needs to be alchemized, this new energy starts to surface.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And so you're kind of holding that old frequency and the new frequency at the same time, yeah. Kind of really telling your brain and body these two things are connected, right? And then we just energetically and magically, because that's just I when I when I talk about my magic, it's kind of like Reiki, you know, yeah, it's just energy. That's all it is. And then so then we boost what's happening inside you so that your body feels this new frequency. The new neural pathway has been developed and you pull a spell, a mantra, a prayer from that process that helps activate it in your brain. So you can switch to from that new that old limiting belief to the new powerful belief, right? It's therapy. Yeah, only we're gonna do it in an hour instead of two years.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, thank you. I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

And it works for for me and and and others at Adventure in similar ways. This isn't to say that therapy is not powerful and that it's not important. It is, and if that's how you get there, get there that way. Exactly. For me, it I couldn't get there the same way if I only did pop therapy. Exactly. I just couldn't get there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I don't think it's for everyone, like that that's that linear path. I'm just not linear. Exactly. I'm divergent, right? We've already established that. I love it. So are you doing any Zoom calls?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yes, I do it all. Okay, yeah, it's all right, it I do it all because here's the deal it's like let's create that energetic container so that you can go in, figure out what you need to do, and come out with it. I almost all of my sessions that are like um sometimes it happens in tarot, but there's not as much space. But like the shadow alchemy, like we're gonna go in and you're gonna do it like a journey with me. Yeah, yeah, and you're gonna get that information and pull it out and come back. Yeah, right. Like, so like peak, you know, it is big shifts because people are doing it themselves.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because it comes from within them instead of me trying to tell them what they're supposed to know. Right. Which I heard from a very powerful psychic in the Bozeman community. I don't have to know it all. I just get to know what I know. I love it. Yeah, yeah. So yes. Um, to find me, you can come into the shop, Mountain Witch in Bozeman. You can um email me at Mountainwitch Mt at gmail.com. You can go to um Mountain Witch MT Um online. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so we're gonna put all of those contacts in the show notes. Um, those will be there for all of our listeners. I have one um final question for you. Ooh, fun. Do you think I am a shadow witch? I just trying to, I just like to hear you say it.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So what I realize happens often is that when I tell people I'm a witch and they say, Oh, cool, that's your thing, and they're working in shadow realms and they start exposing themselves. I'm like, inside. Now I and then and I don't say it out loud because people get to say what what they are. Right, right, right, right. I'm like, okay, well, and you're a witch. So I would say I experience you as a witch. I would say I experienced Chantelle as a witch. I would say I experience Gabor Mate as a witch. I would say Brene Brown is a witch. Yeah. Right. So again, I am not labeling anybody else anything. And there is an energy, a frequency, and a power to it, right? Right. Even as you're we're talking right now, I feel the power rising in between. Yeah, right. It it's really what you say you are, you are. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you. I'm like, I don't like telling people what they are, but I I mean I experienced nothing. Yeah, I experience you as a powerful witch.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you. Yeah, I feel the same about you. Yeah, yeah. Totally. And I'm so appreciative for you to come on and share your stories. And I just can't, I can't express enough how it's been an honor to witness you in your transformation and your alchemization and all of the things. So thank you so much for coming on. Oh my god, to wisdom. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm so grateful for all the things you do for us.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. Thank you. Well, until next time, thanks everyone for listening and uh have a wonderful, amazing week. And maybe this is a moment to tune into what do you need in your in your apocalypse and your in your toolkit. What do you need to feel supported to identify the space and areas in which your life are you're ready to say yes to? I'm ready to to witness that shadow part and say yes, I can love that part of me too. Yeah, go get you some storms. Yeah, there we go. Lots of love, everyone. Take care. Thanks for tuning in to today's show, the Wisdom Rising Podcast is sponsored by Moonrising Shamanic Institute. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app and be the first to know when we release a new episode. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at Moonrising Institute, or visit our website, Moonrising Institute.com. Once again, thanks for sharing space with us today. And until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.