Rooted And Ready: Shamanic Journeying And The Lower World

We share a grounded path into shamanic journeying, explore the lower world, and show how power animals and symbols offer practical guidance. We reflect on surrender, interpretation, and why story can help Western minds release patterns and choose steadier action.

In this episode, we’ll explore:

🌕 Grounding breath and roots to settle scattered energy 

🌖 What shamanic journeying is and why intention matters 

🌗 The power of sensory experience in Lower World journeys 

🌘 Difference between surrendering in journey and interpreting after 

🌑 Power animals as teachers of pace and pattern 

🌒 Working with snake, eagle, mouse, elephant, snail medicine 

🌓 Discerning shadow vs light and maintaining boundaries 

🌔 Bringing journey insights into Reiki and daily life

🌕 Details on our Soul Rising shamanic Reiki training

We explore power animals as allies with real-world impact. Think elephant for loyalty and family, mouse for precise repair, eagle for retrieval and perspective, and snake for deep clearing and renewal. We talk about discerning shadow from light, how to avoid forcing meanings, and why surrendering during the journey matters as much as interpreting afterward. If you practice Reiki or energy work, you’ll learn how journey skills sharpen boundaries, reduce projection, and turn session imagery into grounded insights clients can use the same day.

This conversation lives where spirit meets daily life. We honor the Western need for story without getting stuck in it, then translate symbolic lessons into small actions: breath when heavy, movement when numb, perspective when fixated on the problem. We explain a simple framework to enter non-ordinary reality safely, meet your allies, and return with clear next steps. Curious to go further with trusted guidance and community? Explore our ​Soul Rising Shamanic Reiki ​ training, now in early-bird enrollment. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs grounding, and leave a review to help others find the work.

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Transcript

Welcome And Program Invitation

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to Wisdom Rising. I'm your host, Christine Renee, and I'm joined with Chantel Ochoa today for this conversation about shamanic journeys and the lower worlds. This introduction to shamanism allows you to see what we teach inside our Soul Rising shamanic Reiki training program that's starting here March 29th, the week of March 29th. So if by listening to this program it piques your interest, please go check out the show notes about our Soul Rising program. This round, it will be five months long instead of four months to accommodate summer schedules. And I'm really excited to have that bit of flexibility to offer it over the summer. So we start end of March all the way through August 22nd. So if that is something that you're interested in, please um reach out. Let me know if you'd like to chat and know that right now we're currently in early, early bird pricing. We look forward to supporting you. I need to be present for a moment. So I I apologize that I'm like a little, I'm still a little oh, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

I I felt like it was like I was holding on to like balloons or something. Exactly it. Call you in.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yes, that's my energy. Okay. So with that, we're going, let's come down. Let's grow some roots. Actually, let's just do that. We're gonna just say welcome, welcome, welcome to the show. And the way we're gonna start is by doing taking just a moment to ground into our earthly energy. And I think this is gonna be perfect for a conversation today as we are speaking about shamanic journeys and specifically the lower world. So taking a moment just to find your breath, find that inhale and that exhale. Feel free to blow out the mouth, exhaling down your body, offering it as a release, a gift to the earth for her, her able to alchemize what energy you're letting go of, composting it. And as we find our breath, taking a moment to energetically bring your presence down into your tailbone, your legs, your feet, and energetically envisioning them, growing roots deep, deep, deep down into the earth. So moving beyond your floorboards, moving beyond the topsoil, moving beyond the dirt, the rock, the groundwater, and just letting your roots dive deep, deep down. And so as you breathe, you're exhaling that. What do I need to release? What do I need to let go of for this time, this moment? And you're exhaling it down the body, down into your roots, and offering like a gift to the earth. So let's take three breaths like that. Exhaling deeply and with purpose.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

One more. And one more.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

And then we're gonna energetically, intentionally inhale up the roots, the blessings of the earth, the nourishment that she provides, the stability and the foundation that she's creating. So on the inhale, inhaling it up the legs, up the spine, and into the heart space.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

One more. And one more.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Welcome, welcome, welcome to our call, our whispers of wisdom this morning. Thank you for allowing this drop-in right from the start. I'm joining the Chantelachoa and really excited to be here today with you.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

So thanks for coming on. Yay! No, that felt good. I could just feel the energy of like enhancing giving it and offering it to our listeners and viewers, and just yeah, feeling that energy going deep into the earth and pulling it up and letting it just overflow. Very nice.

Why Grounding Matters When Scattered

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Yes, absolutely. And I feel like um this is a really beautiful practice that you can do very quickly. Like that was just a few minutes. And oftentimes, like when we started, I'm I'm frazzled. I'm I I feel it's almost like my energy is fragmented over all of these different projects or different people in different places because I've just been go, go, go, go, go. And sometimes we feel like that, like we're human. Our humanness catches up with us sometimes. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, where is my body? Where is my breath? Where is my physical sensations? And when we can come back to that awareness, mindfulness, then we are collecting ourselves. It's like, take a moment to collect ourselves. It's like, yeah, that's where this is coming from energetically. It's like, all right, I've collected myself back into my energy, back into my core essence of who I am.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And we can all feel that, you know, and and know when we are feeling scattered and when we need to pull it all back within ourselves and really bringing that peace and bringing that balance and being very grounded in it. Um not everyone knows that they're not grounded. Sometimes you have to be like, hey, where are you at? Let's let's pull you back in, you know, um, and definitely have my moments like that. And and yeah, having multiple projects and thoughts and things that are happening and the weekend being extremely full. And so yeah, I feel you on that. It definitely my weekend was extreme as well. And um, I went out with Noe last week and then came back on Saturday. We stayed an extra night and came in and had to immediately get ready for a baby shower at my house and had a house full and did that. And then Friday or that night we hung out and um journeyed, and then yesterday, yeah. So it's just been it has, but it's been really good. I'm really enjoying life right now. Life has been um it's been full and it's been it's been good. I love invite that with people because I know that there's a lot going on, but it's really important to see all of the the blessings that you have, all of the gratitude, everything, because it is. It's we don't need to get wrapped up in all of the stuff all the time. We actually need to just sit with ourselves and say, you know what, life is good. Life is good, and it's gonna show you the how wonderful it is when you want to be in it, when you're present with it. Yeah.

Setting The Stage For Journey Work

What A Shamanic Journey Is

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yeah, it's interesting. I I did a shamanic journey this morning to the lower world specifically because I feel like I'm looking around, I'm like the the notes are stacking up, and like I should be happy, I should be content, like everything is going really well. Why am I feeling so heavy? Right. Like I feel like um something happened a few weeks ago and it's like the wind and my sails were taken out. And so I was like, okay, let's do a journey to the lower world and we're gonna visit my power animal. And I I wanna understand how I can find my my passion, my come back. And it was so interesting because a lot of it was um being in the water. So, what a shamanic journey is, let's start there. Yeah, let's start there. Let's start there. Like a shamanic journey is an um an invitation to go into the spiritual realms, into this non-ordinary reality. It can be it feels similar to a guided visualization or meditation where you're in a trance-like state. And in that trance-like state, you're going in with intention. This isn't something you're just whimsically doing. This isn't about um plant medicine. This is about I have a connection to my own source of wisdom and are going down to the lower world, oftentimes they're going to speak to you in symbology and metaphor. And so when we have things that are really um really in our minds about it, we're really trying to think about it and figure it out, and the answers are just kind of looping, and you're not really getting anywhere. Traveling and journeying to the lower world really can be supportive because it's gonna show you in an abstract way to for your own answers. So, from that definition, what what do you want to add to it? And before I kind of share my story.

Lower World Basics And Intentions

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Well, so within shamanism, so that's what shamans do is travel through the veils of each realm. And so when we are doing journey work and we go to the lower world, the upper world, the middle world, is we are traveling through that veil, we're going through that energetic state of understanding, like you're saying, the symbology and everything, but we're going down into that lower world. We are connecting with our power animals, our spirit animals, and we're gonna set that intention to go and find out what is it that we need? What are the messages we need right now? What's going on in our world? And so it does show up in symbolic ways and messages and abstract and everything, which is amazing if you're able to really interpret that. Because sometimes it's not about the conversation, it's about the energy that's coming forward. It's what are you seeing and how is it showing up for you? So for me, like out of the three realms, the lower world is my favorite realm. Um, because I love to be in that space of just seeing it so quickly. For me, it's just like, you know, the upper world, it's um communication or seeing it that sometimes is not it's I love it, but I love that abstractness and the symbology of it and how it just flows. And so when through shamanic work, this is what we do. So it's it's another gift that we have to be able to say, I need to connect to the earth. I need I'm looking for these answers. What messages are there for me? And your spirit guides are with you, they're there with you in either way, right? Because we're always we're always connected. But then you come and you go and meet your power animals and you know they're you're walking with them, you're embodying that power too. So there's so much to be said for it. And it's one of the greatest gifts that I feel like I have in life is to be able to go do that work.

Sensory Entry And Drumming

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yes, yeah, and I feel like, you know, I I've now been doing shamanic journey work for I think close to 15 years, maybe even more. And it's so it's always there. Once you have it, once you have the skill set, you can dive into your own in internal temple of wisdom. That's what it feels like. Like you can go inward. And so even when things have been feeling off energetically for me, I'm like, I have the answers. I don't need to go somewhere else. I can look inward. And that feels so incredibly empowering of like, what do I need to know? How, how is this supposed to show me, teach me, heal me, whatever it is. And so we have this access of going, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna start in a very familiar, comfortable place, which I like to call your happy place. This is your place that's real or imaginary that you feel absolutely comfortable in, that you can hold in your mind's eye. And from there, so it can be the mountaintop, it can be at the ocean, it can be, it can be anywhere, real or imaginary. And I love going to my happy place and taking my nice deep breath and going, I can feel the sun and I can notice the grass and I can feel the pathway and I can hear the crunch of the leaves underneath my steps, whatever it may be, like you're really inviting in the sensory experience because that sensory experience allows you to really feel it. So while you're in like the envisioning mode, you're also turn tuning into there's a shamanic drum beat going on, or there's there's some type of music that's helping you get into that theta wave. Typically, I use um Australian click sticks, audio recording with the drum, that that beat kind of helps pull you in and allows it, it it feels like you're not imagining it anymore. Imagination is part of it. There's this imagination skill set that you need to be able to be okay with, like, yeah, I want to see this and be able to visualize it. And then eventually it's like, oh, now it's just drifting. Now it's just going with the flow, and I'm no longer interjecting. Like, for example, like I have a very clear pathway to my lower world. And usually it's a little tiny boat that I climb into, and it's like almost like a roller coaster ride of a of a water boat down this. And at this time, it was like, no, I'm getting in the water, I'm flowing down the water, but normally I have to go through this waterfall. And at the waterfall, I flip over on my belly and I'm holding the rocks and letting the water rush over me. And it was like I wanted the, I felt the this cold rushing water down my front side while on the back side I had this waterfall pummeling me, right? It was like energetically cleansing me on the front and back sides. And so it's this um, I didn't, I don't feel like I tried to imagine that. I had no intention of seeing it show up that way. And yet here I am going, getting exactly what I need. And anyone who knows me in real life, I hate cold water. I'm not touching cold water. It's really hard for me to get into the water. And here I am fully immersed both sides, and I'm not struggling to breathe or anything, but I'm just getting full-on river flow, waterfall flow cleansing over me. And it's going, it kind of brings you back to going, why? What is this metaphorically showing you? So I'm not even, I'm at the that, I'm at the transition between my middle world state and my lower world state. This is the way I go through. This is the portal, and this is where I'm pausing. I'm pausing at the portal way and getting washed. And so when I come back from the journey and go, why did it show up that way? What needs to be cleansed? What needs to be washed away, what needs to be released? What was going on there? But while you're in it, you're ripping the rocks and you're feeling the sensations and you're just in it, right? And so it's very interesting. Like you're not necessarily psychoanalyzing while you're in the experience.

Personal Portals And Waterfall Cleansing

SPEAKER_02 14:49

No, and you don't want to do that because it's going to pull you out of the experience anyway, right? Yeah, this is truly a test of just surrendering to it. You're you're in flow with it the whole time, and that that's the greatest part of it too. It teaches you how to surrender, how to get out of the analytical mind, drop into that intuition and just be and allow what's some coming forward to come forward. Right. Yeah.

unknown 15:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

And the analyzation happens later, the interpretation happens later. Yeah, and that's part of the integration process. Like be in it, flow with it, be a part of the adventure, the experience, and then know that when you return, you'll have time to do that processing. Right. That processing part is just as important as the journey itself. And yet you can't do the same at the same time. Like because it constantly will pull you out. You can recognize that too. Like you're in the journey going, like, why am I seeing it this way? And as soon as you get into that, you're like, now am I making it up? Because I'm no longer in the flow of it.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so it's that when you're in it, like you're saying, you're going through it, the water. Now, mine is different. I go to so mine more is I don't necessarily have to go down as much as I used to, but anyways, when I do, it's at the base of a tree. There's a river, there's like a creek, there's the base of the tree, and that's kind of where I go in. Um, and even like right now, it's like I can see it. But see, that's a that is like the the magic of it too, is once you are just tuned into it, it's that quick. Like right now, I could I could go into it right now. Um, and I'm like, no, I'm not gonna do that work. But the messages come through so easily when you are in that alignment and you match that frequency. So mine I do, I go down and it's like this tunnel, and I can see the the um walls of that tunnel and the roots that come out of it that take me down into a platform, down into like a floor space. And a lot of times there'll be like fire down there, and then the different um animals and stuff. And so it, yeah, it's just depending, right? On, but that is how I go down.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

You know, it reminds me of the very first time I went to the lower world, like my very, very, very first journey. And it was like dancing in seaweed. It was totally unexpected. I felt like I was in a seaweed forest without I wasn't in water, but there was like seaweed, like lots and lots of seaweed floating in the air. And I was like moving through the seaweed forest. And, you know, I just remember going, that is not something that is real and real life. And it is exactly what I needed to know to like visualize and see to know that, like, oh, I am doing I am doing this. I didn't make that up because that was completely from the left field. And so it's it's very interesting when we learn how to shamanic journey, like what shows up and why, and how is that and even like meeting your power animal, like your the the species of your power animal, what does that show within you of what you need, like your soul's growth? What does it need? And um, I always love getting that wisdom of going, oh yeah, it's slow down, recognize, eat some food. Like that's mine. Other people are like, hurry up, let's go. They'll, you know, they have like things that are faster, people have things that are slower, people that fly and people that like animals that swim. Like, there's all these different possibilities. And so it's um, it's just incredible what you can learn about yourself and learn about what your needs are and learn your inner truth of this is who I am by learning how to shamanic journey.

Surrender First, Interpret Later

SPEAKER_02 18:44

And then they come into your your sessions, you know. I mean, I'm not to veer too far off, you know, but it is it's knowing that what we're working with in the lower world then comes into your everyday your sessions. You start doing your um, you know, your Reiki sessions, you're you're working in that realm. And it's like now you're in there, you're in the lower world, you're they're coming forward, they're showing up for you, they're your spirit animals, they're spirit animals, you know. So it's like it's such an amazing thing because when you start seeing them showing up and you're like, oh yeah, I know what you're here to do. I know what your work is, what your job is, you're gonna go do this and do that, clear out this, clear out that. And then the messages are just so easy just to say, Yeah, you got this going on, that going on, because you already know and you have that connection with your spirit animals, with your allies.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Right. Right. And so it's really recognizing like I have allies. I have allies. I have allies. And I think as we are so culturally attuned to being fiercely independent that once you realize no, you have spirit allies, you have this ally who's been with you since birth, and that they have been rooting for your survival all along. And they're trying to offer you their whispers of wisdom throughout your the entirety of your life. And if you notice, you can see things showing up in your world. Like, I don't know how many times we have students who are like, oh my gosh, my power animal is the sea turtle, and I have sea turtle figurines all over my house. You know, it's like, yep, uh-huh. Like you've been calling.

Alternate Gateways And Quick Access

SPEAKER_02 20:20

I had a client that I was seeing elephant on her, and she's like, No, I just I don't feel that. And I'm like, okay, and I said, Well, let it sit with you. She goes home and starts texting me, and she's like, I have an elephant shower curtain. I have an elephant picture in my bedroom. I have an elephant here, here, here. It was so funny. And I was like, Oh my gosh. And then I saw, um, you know, I see people's tattoos a lot, like they're it's interesting. And so I said, You have this octopus with you. And I was giving her the whole visual of the octopus, and then she pulls up her and she had this huge octopus on her. And I was like, Oh, there you go. There you go. And I'm like, they're working with you, but they show up in my visual. But it was funny, and she's like, I don't know about the elephant. And she so many pictures goes, I don't know how I didn't see that ever. And I'm like, that's too funny, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Right. I just I think that oftentimes they get so tied up with what they think the power animal is supposed to be about, and then you actually dive in deeper, like elephant is about loyalty and family, and they're so sentient and they're nurturing one another, and they're they're just such a graceful animal, even though they're ginormous, you know, it's all of these things. And when and oftentimes it's so I think people when they see an animal, it might be this superficial thing. Is it fierce? Is it strong? If it's not, it's not for me, or whatever it might be, right? And so, and then that you have animals that like they have this once one side that's that you know oftentimes is seen, right? Like, so let's take your lion where it's like their you the vision of the line is this fierce thing. But it sleeps 22 hours a day, right? So it's got this its own magic of what do you need in the moment? Like, do you need the ferocity or do you need the rest? Do you need this like, I'm saving, I'm cultivating my energy for the right timing, you know? Yeah.

Power Animals And Inner Needs

SPEAKER_02 22:18

And you know, and people they can feel that energy on you too. And you can once you know it, it does make sense. You know, we don't all need to have big animals. I have a you know, different ones that I work with too, but I had um a friend that I worked with, and hers was a snail, and it came through on me and it just wiped its eye, and it was showing me like it, like she needed to see through a different lens. And then her process is a little slower, and not that that's a bad thing, but she processes her spiritual work a lot slower, and that's that snail pace, and that's what it was showing me. And that was a few years ago, and then she stopped coming for sessions and then she came back and she's kind of like she's reopening what we left off on, you know, years ago. But it's just interesting because I'm like, oh man, that snail is so your spirit animal. Yeah, I mean that they're like, I don't want a snail as a spirit animal. I'm like, but look what it offers, right? Right. It's showing you one, you can see the trail, you can watch your path as you have journeyed, and you carry your back on your back, your home. And you know, there's all these little elements to it that's like it's not about a snail, right?

Allies In Sessions And Daily Life

SPEAKER_00 23:31

It's the whole picture of what they wrap up in. Right. And so I want to make the clarification for our listeners too, that you have this power animal that is your animal since birth that has um designated its resources to you, like its personality, its characteristics. It's there with you the whole time. And then so you have those power animals, and then you have other power animals that come in for just um little snippets of your life or projects. Like sometimes you'll get a power animal. This is just for my motherhoodhood stuff, this is just for my business stuff, this is just for my health and wellness. Like you can have your primary power animal, the one that's been with you for since birth, and then you have others that will show up in different ways to be supportive. And then we have these spirit animals, and the spirit animals are oftentimes seen as like master animals that can that show up for a lot of different people. So you can think of eagle and mouse, like those are a really beautiful healing pair where the um master spirit animal of eagle is very much going to um do that soul retrieval work. It's gonna, it's gonna use its talons and claw things out and pull things up and fly for you and help you move within the realms. Whereas mouse is one of my favorite spirit animals to work with. It's the one that comes to me with for sessions because it wants to do that nitty gritty detailed work and it wants to move. Like when um mouse shows up in my sessions, I'm like, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna do, we're gonna get in, we're gonna do little itty bitty things. And so it's like um letting the power, like I oftentimes see mouse go inside of the body, work on the tumor, work on this this physical health issue, um, clear things out. Like I can see its little tail sweeping things away. It's it's so gentle compared to eagle. And yet both of them are so powerful, right? And so it's it's like it's not about size, it's about characteristic, it's about their gifts and what do you need? Are you the slow and steady snail paced, or are you the ferocious fill in the blank? There's so many like that we that can come to mind, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Well, like one of mine is snake, and for a lot of people, they do not want that. They don't want to work with snake, they don't want to think about snake, that brings in fear because it's it's been there's stories about it, you know, and it's like, no, it's not. And there is a difference. Now, I do want to say when you are either doing your shamanic journey work or you're in session and your spirit animals come forward, um, you can tell if they are of the shadow or the light, right? You can tell what they're here to do. So I don't ever have a negative experience, but when you can see it, it's a different thing. Like a snake is a snake, but then if it's a serpent, it's a whole different experience. So a snake for me goes through and it does that. It goes through the body, it clears away what it needs to. Sometimes you'll see it coiled. Like, is the kundalini coiled? Is their energy stuck? Is it sleeping? Is it where's it at? Right. So it's like, is the snake coiled up in your sacral? And if so, what does that represent? Right. That's a lot of sleeping energy. Like the, you know, they're still moving and shifting that energy. Maybe the snake has now moved up and it's going through the intestines or up into the heart to wrapping itself in the heart. You know, I've seen it where it's like wrapping up around a nest of eggs. What is it protecting when it's the heart space, you know? Or I just did one for somebody who I was helping her with her mother, and then the mom was all like in this black smoke, but there is the serpents that were coming up and out, and I had to clear that all the way. So it's like I knew then, okay, that's not good energy. We're working on this now, um, versus seeing it go through and it's the healing snake, it's doing the work for that.

Seeing Signs And Validations

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah, and I see that too. Like I definitely love working with snake. I one of my power animals in Snake is Snake. And I recently, oh, this was probably a journey maybe a week or two ago. So not that long ago, but I remember going, I was in a pit of snakes and they were slithering all over me. And I was relishing in the sensation of like feeling the snake move across my skin, and I was delighted in it. And I was like, I just want to feel all of it. Like I was really like enjoying it, which most people would be terrified. I was totally enjoying it, versus having a client where they're energetically puking serpents for an hour.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

And I've seen that too, right? And it's like you, so when we're doing this work, you can really sense what what part of this is like I'm releasing the serpent. Like, think of that that way, versus here's my healing snake. That's reminding me of the beauty of sensation, right? That's what it was offering me. And I've I've you know shed skin, I've had my coiled up snake with their eggs. I mean, you see it in all the these different ways. And it's like, this is this is beautiful. And I'm oftentimes when I'm I go hiking or something, like snakes will be on my pathway. And you know, living in Montana and people are like, aren't you scared of the snakes? And like, I've only ever seen one rattler, and no, I'm not at all. I'm fine, you know. Maybe if I like it's different if you're hiking down in, you know, the tropics, like, right? Maybe, maybe I would be a little more nervous, but overall, I'm like, no, they're beautiful. And you can tell, like you can tell, like looking at a snake, like a real life snake, if they have a slit through their eye, they're poisonous. And if they're if they have a normal pupil, they're non-poisonous. And it that's kind of what it feels like between the the healing snake versus the serp, like the serpent, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

You definitely can tell that difference. And then, two, is I feel like right here is also um knowing this is what a shamanic Reiki practitioner is going through. This is what we see, this is what how we do our work, right? So if you're listening and you're like, I don't see that, I don't do that, and you're you are Reiki certified, this is shamanic Reiki work, and that this is what we teach, and this is what we do, and this is what we embody. And so when our when we're in session, it's different, you know, if you don't do this, it is different because you are seeing the things, you are receiving those messages, whether you're receiving them through guides, their guides, your guides, or you're receiving it through power animals and seeing it. This is the work that we're doing. So we learn how to pull and shift and do this work of soul retrieval and soul regression and all of that, because it's we're moving through those veils, we're moving through those realms, right? We're able to walk through them. And that is that's medicine right there in a different way, but it's beautiful.

Beyond Stereotypes Of Animal Medicine

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Right. I was just teaching a Reiki level one class on Saturday, and I had to really make this distinction between like here's traditional Reiki, and it's done, you know, do not pay attention to these messages, do not see the things, and uh like they're it's don't attach to the story. And that works from a very Japanese cultural standpoint. Like, I understand it, go meditate, like release attachment, let go of the story. And we live in a completely different culture. And in the West, I feel like when we have the story and can understand where the story is coming from, where why am I having a healing snake versus a serpent show up? Why, why am I stuck underneath a waterfall, like being pummeled, pummeled by the water? Like when I can see the story and can recognize the story, it's easier for us to release it and let it go and shift and go, what can I do in real everyday life to make sure I am walking this path forward? And I I feel very strongly like in our Western society, we have so often we are getting messages, we are getting um, we are having visions, we are getting all of these things during our Reiki session. And the question is, what do we do with it? And how do we cultivate it coming from a place from spirit versus coming from your ego and like pushing messages on to clients that that are coming from you as an individual and not from a higher source, right? And so learning that differentiate how to differentiate between those two is really important. And so much about what we teach at Moonrising and Shamanic Institute is like we have to learn how to do this for ourselves first. We have to do the self-healing work first. We have to know what is in our energy and what is on our path before we start doing this work for others. And it will oftentimes like they it does like will naturally gravitate to the direction that you're going. But if we know how to do this for ourselves, then we can say, this is my energy and this is your energy. And I can honor your energy and I can honor your path and honor where you're going, but I know what is my energy, and I'm I'm I can also recognize what is going on in my energy field, right? It was just like at the beginning of this call, like I knew I was frazzled, like having that energy awareness. What do I need in this moment?

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Yeah. And then me watching you as a practitioner going, okay, let's bring that back. And what is happening here? Wasn't feeling that. So it was like, and that's a great example to show between practitioner and client. Not that we're playing that right here, but yes, you're feeling one way and me being able to tune into that and say, okay, that's not me, that's her. What can we do here now? Well, let's pull that all in, right?

Snake Medicine: Shadow Or Light

What Shamanic Reiki Practitioners Do

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Exactly. And the only way that you can do that is having done the work, right? And I um I just I just love this work so much because even because we're lifing. Life is gonna life and things are gonna happen. And the more you have this awareness, this acknowledgement of going, where's my energy at? What do I need to do to use the tools that I know to create the ritual in the morning, to do the practice? So yeah, I feel like I've been a little um energetically down. And I feel like there's a lot of heaviness in the world and going, I do feel like I'm doing some alchemization work on the collective consciousness level. And at the same time, there's been things that have been very triggering and going, I'm like, let's exhale that for a moment and going, okay, what do I need to do today? And so this last week it's been okay, I'm gonna do breath work today. Okay, I'm gonna do this today, okay, I'm gonna do this emotional release exercise. And going, I'm going to my toolbox to go, what's gonna help me shift back into my own energetic aligned state? Even though all of this is going on, how can I be fully me? And so this morning it was like, okay, I'm gonna do a shamanic journey to go learn about this. And you know, so I make I do make my way down to the lower world, and my power animal like takes off my skin. It was so weird. Like, I was like, okay, so we took off my skin, and I was nothing but a skeleton and muscles. And we were just walking around, like my power animal became just skeleton and muscles, and I was skeleton and muscles, and everything was skeleton muscles. And I'm like, all right, this is this is interesting. And eventually, like, and I think there was a lot of lesson about not attaching to like the body image and going, look at how big my animal is. But if you take off her fur, if you take off her fat mass and just go down to the muscles and skeletons, she's not all that big, right? And so it's it's very, it was like, okay, I'm okay, that was a lesson. And then I'm like, let's just keep going. Let's what is this shifting into? And it was the sailboat. Like, here's my sail. This thing happened that took the wind out of my sails, and I took that glide of the sailboat that was left, and I ran it purposefully into a rock. And then all I've been doing is trying to bucket out the water that's filling up my my boat, and that's where my focus has been. It's just been like, I'm gonna get this water out of the freaking boat. Had nothing to do with like standing up. Where's the wind at? What are my resources? How can I leave the boat? It's clearly not not working, right? And going, okay, I can see what I did there. I can see that I I was, I got a um when I I could see the ramming of the rock, I also got this flash of um wearing a Scottish long pleated dress and the the tartans, the this the blouse that they wear. And it was the black and the red and the gray colors, and they wore those for the honoring of the witch, the witch trials of the 200 plus years, like the number of threads, everything was is in honoring of all of the women that they lost. And I here I am. I'm getting a flash of like, oh, this is a witch's wound. Oh, oh, oh, I see why I rammed into the rock because I was afraid that if I kept going, I was going to be hung as a witch again. And that is what's going on here. So I can come back and go, I can see why all of this is happening. And in the end, it was like, Christine, you freaking have wings. You don't need, you don't need the wind. If you find the wind and you get in the current, fantastic. But you don't even need the boat. You don't need to be psychoanalyzing every rock at the bottom of the creek or bottom of the ocean or wherever I was, and and going, like, you can you can just you can just fly. Like it's why not, why not you just do that for a little bit? And and it was the message really felt like you need to do the things that are you're passionate about, that are gonna be fun for you, that are gonna be that you can be your own wind in your own wings. And for me, it was like, oh, well, that's full rising. I get it, I gotta go back to the foundations of what I love to honor and support our students with. Like this feels foundational. Like shamanic journeying is foundational. It is the thing that I can consistently return to time and time again. So I'm really excited to have this conversation and the wisdom that came through this morning. I was like, oh yeah, that's this is where we're at.

Western Context: Story, Meaning, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_02 38:50

So sometimes, you know, what I'm getting out of that too, it's lift your head up, look around, right? Because when we get like this and we're just in, like you said, you're like just focused on getting the water out and getting the rocks out and doing all of that, and we're not looking at what's surrounding us, right? And and not to get into archetypes, but that's the Safetour that shows up too, because it just bunkers down our head and says, no, we're focusing here. And when you lift up and you go, oh my gosh, look at all the people that surround me, that love me, look at what I'm doing, look what I've built, look what I've created, look at my home, look at this, look at that, right? Even if you're in really hard times in life, right? There's still that future focus of what will I have? I am manifesting this to come forward. And we've all been there, you know? And I think I've talked about this in the past. It's like you can have your lights turned off and play, you know, a game with your kids with candles and flashlights. Make it fun, do what you need to. Do you know as an adult, oh shit, I'm in really hard times right now. I can't even afford my electric bill. Yes. But do your kids need to know that? No. So when we make that fun and play out of it, it creates an entire shift. We're jumping the timeline. We're no longer walking down that scarcity mindset timeline. We're saying, this one is done. I'm jumping over here. This is my higher timeline. This is where I'm going. And when you know and you can do that, we all can. It's just a matter of consciously saying, I shift my perspective, right? We are timeline jumping all day long. And so going to the low world and saying, Yes, what do I need to see? Because that's tangible to us. I see it. I crashed my boat. I'm just trying to bucket everything out. I'm overworking. I'm doing this. And what? I can fly. Oh, let me fly. Let me get a bigger perspective for a minute. Let me see things from that bird's eye point of view, that crown chakra, soul perspective. But we get so human, we're so trapped in our physical self that we are right here. And it's like, no, shift the gaze, raise, raise yourself up. And that's why I say be the witness and don't attach. And that's for anyone. Like, don't attach to what's happening, right? Give it love, give it balance in everything, because that's all we can energetically do. If we feed fear with fear, we create fear. Sadness with sadness, we create sadness. So we have to bring the balance of it. Um, I actually in my grief group, I do in many groups, I do this. But what is the opposite of fear? It's happiness, it's courage. Do the opposite when you identify that emotion, what's the opposite? Do that, change the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Right. Exactly. And I think that was that was it. It was like, you can create your own wind. Like, yes, what is your current? Like, what are those things that lift you up? Like, do that. And it was funny. The last few days, it was like, I don't remember the last time I did something just for fun, you know, like it's just been go, go, go, go, go. And like, I want to go to an ecstatic dance, or I want to go, I want to go do something that is joyful. I'm like, when was the last time I laughed? You know, like it's just been, you know what I mean? Like it's just been go, go, go. My son's got a fever and my daughter needs surgery in five days. Like, it's just like all of these, like life life, right? And when life life, it is. It's going, what is the emotion that I'm stuck in? And what do I need to do to get to the to the other end? And recognizing like how much of that dumping the buckets is if self-sab sabotaging because you have the answers within to shift it and going, Why am I so so um attached to being in the sinking ship?

Tools, Rituals, And Self-Regulation

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Yeah, yeah, it is. It's that attachment, and it's time to unplug. And when we unplug, we step back and we can see the whole picture and go, Oh man, I sure was in that for a minute, you know, and you can really be like stuck in things and situations. And when you step back, you go, sometimes that was such a waste of energy, you know, right? There's a lesson in it, but now it's did you learn the lesson? And this is for everyone, do we learn the lesson or do we keep going back to it? Right. Because it's like if you don't learn the lesson, it's gonna keep coming back in just a different way, a different shape, a different person, a different, you know, whatever. And so it's important to learn the lesson while you're receiving the answers. So when you do the journey work and you receive the answer, accept that. Go now, you're gonna integrate that into you. That becomes a part of your new blueprint. So you can say, I learned that, I don't need to go back there anymore. Right. I keep my head up, I can unattach from that. I see it, but I give it love, I give it light, I give it, you know, my human like essence of just you know, all is well. Yeah. Because a lot of us say we trust, we trust in a higher power, we trust in source, we trust in God, whatever you. You claim it to be for your own self. But then we don't give the trust that everything will be okay. Right. You know, and yeah, there's some rocky shit we have to go through, but we're going through it because we're learning and we're we're having to learn those lessons so that we can climb that mountain, right? You don't get to the top of the mountain just by, you know, scaling it. No, you're going through some rocks and cracks and crevices, and you might slip, you might scuff yourself. But when you get to the top of the mountain, you had to go through all of that to learn to see the peaks and the valleys and all of it. But we only focus on the journey right now. We're stuck on a rock. Okay, well, it's on the other side of that rock.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Let's get over it. Yeah. Yep. That's it. And so know that if you're listening and you're like, okay, I gotta figure this out. Like, if you this is something that you want to learn, if you are a Reiki practitioner or not, if you're a complete beginner or you've been doing mediumship or Reiki work for 20 plus years, we've we've definitely been have students in both camps. Um, we're starting our Soul Rising and shamanic Reiki training program here at the end of month, starting the week of March 29th, going into April. Well we're we're having our soul rising program to teach you these steps of how do I journey? How do I find my way to the lower world? How do I meet my power animal? How do I interpret those messages? How do I meet my spirit guide? How do I get to the upper world? How do I interpret those messages? What's the difference? How do I meet my higher self? How do I journey into these different realms for my own self-discovery and healing process, for my own alignment, for my own how do I learn how to surrender to the flow? And so if you are interested in that, um I will go ahead and post the link in the show notes. And um, we are really excited. We're still in early, early bird pricing. So if you are interested, you want to reach out, you have questions, feel free to do so. But check out that site and we look forward to supporting you.