Diversity in Schools - a conversation for white parents

In today’s episode, I talked with my colleagues, and fathers themselves, Buhle Dlamini, global speaker and expert on why Diversity and Inclusion are essential in business, and Graeme Codrington, an expert on the Future of Work and author of the book “Future Proof Your Child”

For this episode, we turned the focus away from business and onto our children. We discussed the importance of diversity and inclusion in schools and our education system.

Learning about diversity, and having it visibly represented in our schools is extremely important, especially for white children where previous generations have been the perpetrators of racism, colonialism and discrimination against People of Colour.

We discuss the fact that racism is a system that is still operational, despite the fact that we are living 30 years post-apartheid. And in understanding this key fact we hope to engage in conversations with parents about the damaging effects of racism and how we might attempt to solve these problems for our children, and for the future of our country.

While this is a difficult discussion, it is absolutely one that we need to be having. Diversity is at the root of resilience, empathy and innovation and should be an ideal that we are pushing for.

Let us stay committed to this ideal, and work every day towards antiracism and inclusion on all levels.

Connect with Buhle:
Websites: https://tomorrowtodayglobal.com  or  www.buhledlamini.com
Email: buhle@tomorrowtodayglobal.com

Connect with Graeme:
Website: https://tomorrowtodayglobal.com  or www.graemecodrington.com
Email: graeme@tomorrowtodayglobal.com

Graeme’s book “Future Proof Your Child”

• Available on Takealot
• Available on Amazon

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Welcome to the future smart parent podcast. A place where my mom explores how to help us kids develop a new set of skills we need to face the future with confidence. And I'm Jude Foulston, an introverted mom trying my best to raise kids who are happy and confident kids who embrace all that makes them unique, while preparing them for an exciting future that really looks nothing like the world we grew up in. I believe there's a whole set of skills that our kids aren't being taught, these skills will be critical for them to develop in order to thrive in the future. It's up to us as parents to help them develop these skills. The future smart parent podcast provides resources for parents and kids who want to be ready for all the ways in which the future is going to be different from today, we will explore this future together bringing insights from top futurists resources from smart people working on making our lives better, and most importantly, stories of parents who are parenting a little differently, yet very much intentionally for a changing world. So join me as we explore how we can be future smart parents raising future smart kids. Welcome to this episode of the future smart parent Podcast. Today we're going to be talking about how we get diversity right in schools. I've invited my two colleagues, Buhle Dlamini and Graeme Codrington to chat to us about diversity, and specifically the things that us white parents need to do to ensure our schools have teachers who represent the children, they're teaching. Buhle helps organizations around the world to embrace the benefits of a diverse work workforce and as a parent himself, does a lot of work with schools, and we're privileged to have him with us. Graeme is an expert on the future of work, author of the book future proof your child for the 2020s and beyond, and also serves on many school boards around the country. So welcome Graeme and Buhle, I have to be honest, I'm quite nervous to have this conversation live on a podcast. Nervous because I'm aware that it's a sensitive conversation. When I first came up with this idea for this topic, I originally approached Graeme because my feeling was that it wasn't almost fair to bring Buhle into the conversation again, why a black man has to spend more time educating us white people, what we really should know by now. So. So thank you for your grace in letting me bumble my way through this, but welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Jude. And and I think that is a very fair fear. And, and thank you for your honesty. And I think we have when we have when we approach this topic, we just have to be honest with ourselves. And we have to be honest with each other. And you're absolutely right, that it is a conversation that white people need to have that this is a conversation that requires ownership by white parents, white teachers, white principals, you know, whoever's involved in the space, there needs to be ownership. What do Yeah, you know, that as we're recording this, it's still Black you think Graeme? History Month in America and Canada, February, is allocated for that. And one of my favorite memes that comes across every February is reminding white people that racism is not black history. It's white history. And you tend to think of slavery, and you see all the pictures of the slaves, but there's no slave owners in those pictures, because you're just seeing the cotton fields. And we forget that slavery and apartheid -The victims were the black people, the perpetrators, the real writers of the history, were the white people. So there's always that reminder to me that whenever we invite our black colleagues and friends, to join us in conversations about diversity, and racism and reconciliation, we need to be careful that we are not abdicating the responsibility of their conversation to them. And that we keep the responsibility but we thank them for their grace and their continued helping us to do the work we should have already done a long time ago. Exactly. And you know, as they say, When is the best time to plant a tree? Well, that was 20 years ago, but the next best time to plant that tree is is now so we need to be having these conversations. So let me just give you a little bit of background as to what initiated this this conversation between us. I saw a post on Facebook the other day that was welcoming some new teachers for the year. And they were all white. So I had commented to say, it looks like there's some room for growth with your diversity, which was met with unhappiness, there was a lot of pushback saying that I didn't understand the situation, and that I should just keep my thoughts to myself, which really just highlighted the fact that there's so much room for this conversation. I don't think it's an isolated case. I think this is happening in schools across South Africa across the world. But I guess my question to to you, Buhle and Graeme is, where do we start? Where do we start helping white parents understand why representation is just so important? Yeah, I think that's a great place to start. And, and the reason it's a great place to start is, is that it is important to understand the need for this topic to be actually dealt with in our schools. So the need really arises from the fact that if you have a school population, that now in South Africa is an integrated school population. And the extent of that integration varies from school to school, there are other factors that affect that. And I think it is, it is a fair one to say that in a South African context, most of the schools lack integration usually tend to be schools that are considered private schools or schools, where parents will have to actually have means for their children to attend there. And so there is that there's a socio economic reality that we're dealing with in South Africa. But we even with that our schools in South Africa are largely integrated now, in terms of racially integrated religious integration, all of those things, our schools are integrated. And so that is why it is important that the children that go to those schools see themselves represented in the people that are delivering education. And if that doesn't happen, there is something that actually happens in terms of the quality of education that those children receive. And so here's the important thing is that if you have under representation, in in the staff of the school, that you know, the black staff that you have in your school is already underrepresented, meaning that they don't feel that they have any any authority or power to actually make any change. And so usually what they will do is just, it's just to do their work, bury their heads, head, and so don't bring about any more change in the school. This is why it is important that we address the issue of representation in staff. And it's a long process Graeme. Yeah, if, if if children are growing up, they are making their life decisions, let's say one of the biggest decisions they have to make is what is my career going to be? What am I going to be when I grow up, and if they look around the world, and they get a sense that your gender, your skin color, the language you speak, the accent you speak that language with? If all of that opens certain doors and closes other doors, they get a very clear picture of where they can go and where they shouldn't go, and where they are welcomed, and where they are not welcomed. And that's what representation is. That's why in certain areas of life, black people who are successful are so celebrated. I'm thinking Formula One driving, for example, with Lewis Hamilton, why is it so important that you have a black superstar in that space? Because until Lewis Hamilton did it, most black children would look at Formula One, the history 50 years, all the all the world champions, look at all this and all they see is white men. And then whether they whether it's real or not, whether it's said out loud or not, they've thought is that's not for me. And so if you look then at lawyers, and you look at doctors and you look at other professions, and then of course, if you look at teachers, so you look at the teachers who are teaching you, you look at the pictures of the headmasters and headmistresses of the school from years before you even came as a child to that school. And everybody's white. All the leaders of your school are white, and the only black teachers are the teachers teaching the black languages and maybe teaching one or two minor subjects, and maybe teaching some sports, maybe sports coaches. And other than that the only black people you see on campus are the other cleaners and admin stuff, you get a picture that teaching is not for me. So it becomes the cycle that for decades and generations, just continues to play itself out. So that's why representation matters. Yes, it matters for the individual teachers themselves. We can talk about that in a second. But for me, the reason I'm passionate about diversity in our schools is, that's where you change the the impact that they had a few 100 years of apartheid and segregation gave us because you've got to give young children a picture that they can live inside of. And our schools are not doing that, in my opinion. I think I think it goes, as far as also the teaching material, and how teachers teach. We've always said at TomorrowToday how important storytelling is. And if you've not, you're losing how many stories that a half of the class can relate to. So yeah, there's this is that as well, it's got it's got huge implications also for the success of all children. Because what we know from research across the world, we know this in our organizations, we know this in a corporate environment, that more inclusive and more diverse environments actually lead to a lot of, of positive benefits for the institution and for the people in the institution. And so when you're thinking about all the people that are involved, when there is lack of diversity in in that institution, it actually limits the potential of that institution. And so you have children coming into school to Graham's point, who don't see themselves represented, and sort of start to feel that in order for them to succeed, they can't be who they are, they can't bring their culture, they can't bring their language, they can't bring authentically what feels natural to them in that environment. And so you have a whole group of students believing that in order to succeed in this environment, I've got to act white, I've got to speak white, I've got to, I've got to be white in every other way, except the fact that I can't change my skin color. And yeah, it's a very sad reality when you think about it. But I know, this is what I want to believe. I want to believe that people in our schools in South Africa, people who are leading our schools, actually are wanting to create a better future for our children, and for our country, that deep down, that's what they really want. I don't buy into this belief that people are inherently evil, and that they want, they only care about their race and all of that stuff, some to some are there. We know that those are there. But I think the majority of people are really wanting to create a better future for themselves, for their children and for the communities. And so one way is to do that is to be actively involved in this and to champion it, and not to see it as something that we have to be hit over the head with. Yeah, but but here, then comes the problem with it. Because I agree with you. I think that racism, if it is defined as I hate people who are different from me, I'm a white person, I hate black people. If that's racism, I think that's largely disappeared, as you say they are some people who still have it, but I think we see those people from a long distance of and normally we can chase them away. But racism is also the system. It's also the institutional structures and the way that the system works. And this is where I see the big problem, because I think that schools will say to themselves, if we could find good black teachers, we would hire them. We absolutely want them every time we advertise for a teacher, we desperately hoping that a black person will apply, but it never happens. Now, I know you've got some insights, this is this is your specialty, not as a consultant to try and get black people jobs. I mean, you're a specialist in cultural diversity and cultural intelligence. And whether the diversity element is is race or culture or religion or personality profile or gender or generation, that there are some rules that apply that I know people I think will will find valuable, because the problem is we've talked about representation. But this applies in the staff room, doesn't it? If there are only, for example, the 50 teachers on staff, and only two of those teachers are people of color? How does that play out? Does that make it difficult for you to then employ more people of color? If people look at the website of the school and say, I'm not applying for a job, there surely is almost like a self defeating cycle, isn't it? Am I making sense, you're absolutely making sense. And what you're talking about is what we refer to as underrepresented groups. So an underrepresented group is any part of the population that is less than 20% of the population. And sometimes it can go even further down to 15 or 10% of the population, that's when you really have a huge other representation in that in a population. So what happens with underrepresented groups is two things happen. So fear, to speak up, fear, to challenge fear to bring about change, and all of those things until you have people of color in the institution, but their presence actually doesn't affect the institution in any way. And so it's almost like it that's where tokenism comes in, where it's someone that you employ to interrupt you, let's help people if if people are feeling a little bit stressed out, because the conversation is about race, and that's such a integral issue. Think of another place in your life, I Buhle. You and I have a shared background in the church environm ent. So it might be your religious grouping that you in, it might be in your workplace. But you could also imagine a school, where 90% of the leadership 90% of the people who are in charge are old people forget gender, forget race, forget culture, if that's too difficult to understand, let's just think about age. So now you've got all these old people, they the elders of the church, they the leaders of the cricket club, they the you know, the school teachers, and now they want to invite two people to join the team to join the leadership team. But you're 25 years old. And you look at the picture, you look at the website, and you see there are 50 people, and they're all older than 60. Are you going to apply? Are you gonna walk into that job and say, Wow, that looks like where I want to spend every Wednesday night. You're not. That's such an excellent example. And the same example applies to gender. We've seen this if you're in a corporate environment, you've seen that many, many times. And so the underrepresented group, the big challenge that happens is that no change happens until a significant number of people are first represented. And so that's when so so one of the things we were talking about earlier, is that instead of trying of trying to find one teacher for your next round, it's really about saying how can we find a group, a group of of teachers or a group of staff that are going to significantly change the environment. But before you invite people in, there's also another aspect, which is really about how have you set up the environment to be more inclusive, because inviting people into into an environment where for one they looked at as the diversity hire, that is the worst environment to work in as a person of color, or as the only woman or whatever you can look at, it is the worst environment to walk into, when you have been identified as the the diversity hire, interrupt you that was there just for those who know sport. And I know that that there are people who listen to this podcast all around the world. But if you'll excuse us using a South African example, as a as a white person, I have always been angry with people, other white people who have complained about the black people getting into our national sports teams, that especially the rugby and cricket teams, and I've always pushed back to say, I don't think that at a national level we've ever given somebody a position just because they're black. And you know, you must speak actual names to me and give me those names. And then of course when Siya Kolisi gets promoted to captain and wins the World Cup for us. Now that shuts everybody else up right. But you hear that documentary in the background that told the journey of their team having to overcome their self doubt, as some of the greatest rugby players to ever wear the Springbok Jersey they would tell that you only got it because you were black, they were told by them by by these racist people that influences you, right? They self doubt they were you think I've only got this job because I'm black, that can't be good for your for your self belief. And in the sports world, you can go out and win a World Cup and then that shuts everybody up. You don't necessarily have that ability in a classroom, or anything, because there isn't that kind of metric. So yes, as you say that, well, let me now put it back as a question to you. Is that up to the leadership? Because I know again, if we sorry, if you're not a sports fan, but you know, the chasing the sun is a documentary if even if you're not a sports fan, it's well worth watching that documentary. It's available on YouTube, to just see this, this older white Afrikaans guy Rassie, Erasmus, realising what racism had done to his team, he can almost hardly get through an interview, without crying as he realizes the impact and then what they did to fix that, does it come down to leadership Buhle is this about that senior leaders of a school looking at the staff room and saying we've got to make this a safe place? Absolutely. And so it goes back to what you what you said Jude, earlier in your in your opening story, is that the biggest challenge for bringing about transformation and growth in in our schools that are still not representative, or that are still not diverse, is that there, there hasn't been an ownership of the problem. And so until you get to the point where you have the leadership say, we have to change, we want to change, we want to move forward, there is room for growth in our school, until that happens, Graeme, until there is that ownership by the leadership to say, you know, we've got a great school here, but we want to make it even greater. In order for us to do that we've got to solve this challenge that we have, without starting there - owning the problem owning the challenge, maybe let's not use the word problem, you know, but owning the challenge, you're not gonna get anywhere. So you own the challenge. And then you say, Okay, how do we start with who we have, because the biggest stumbling block in bringing about a transformative, diverse environment, is what you already have, you know this in everything. If you want to bring about change, you've got to start with, you gotta start with what you have inside. And until you have addressed that with the people that are already there, to say, we've got to think about how how we are integrating it and bringing those underrepresented groups in and our current system, making sure that their voices are heard, for example, making sure that they are not just tokens, people that would point to to say, No, we have a black teacher, there he is, you know, and but actually, that we are able that black parents, black staff, they are integral part of, of changing the institution from the inside out, is a big part of that. And now some people might think, okay, but now, isn't that affirmative action or BEE? You know, aren't we now favoring black people over white people? And my answer to that is, yes. Yes, you are, that you have to. That's the whole point of the story. If you've got 50 People in the staff room, and 48 of them are white, you've got to do something proactive, deliberate, conscious, and intentional, to redress that it's not going to happen naturally. It's been 25 years, and it hasn't happened yet in your school. So So you know, you're fooling yourself to say it will just happen by itself. We've got to be deliberate. Does that mean we'll have to be deliberate forever? No, we swing the pendulum across to the other side. We work hard to redress the balance, then hopefully, and this is the goal, right? We then find that balance. And then a balance exists where the next generation of children who come through the school, I'm not even thinking about the representation because it's just clear and obvious and natural and beautiful. Absolutely. At but we do have to address the elephant in the room for us in a South African context that we actually dealing with also a national psyche that we've inherited through our history where we we as whether we are black, white, Indian colored, you know, there's preference for whiteness, because of, of how we're raised. And so when people say, there are no qualified black teachers, that actually voicing a preference, where white teachers are automatically seen as qualified, as black teachers have to prove they're qualified. And that is one of the biggest hurdles that we also have to deal with, you have an example about that. I was just gonna say I, this is something, you know, an experience that that I had, we at one of the schools I'm involved in we, many years ago, we set out on a strategy to do exactly what we talking about bring diversity into the classroom, we sold it to the parents, not just as a ticking a checkbox of diversity. But we said, this is the experience we want to give your children, we want to give your children and experience of inclusivity and representation and diversity. And everybody thought this is amazing, thank you. And they came up to the board and they said, We love this and we love the way you going about it, we support it, except, and when somebody starts to whisper, then you know, they're getting serious, you know, they're pulling it to the side. Except, please, when you're looking for black teachers, of course, you can bring them into the Zulu class, and, you know, maybe bring them into geography and even history would be a great place to hear the black voices. But please don't bring in black maths and science teachers. Those subjects are two important. Now both said, here's the key - those were black parents, now, rich black parents. And I think I think your point earlier is important. This is as much socio economic as it is cultural at the moment. But the this literally I'm quoting now, the parents said to me, a black parents said to me, I don't pay these private school fees for my children to be taught maths by a black person. There, I mean, my jaw dropped to the floor. I don't know if you've experienced anything like that. And and I mean, I'm not I'm not laughing because it's funny. Yeah, if I don't laugh, I'm going to cry, right. And that's that the reality of what our history has done to us as a country, and not just as a country, but as the world. And so this, this is not unique to South Africa. But I think this is also very important point out. But what is unique about the South African context is that you have a majority black society, that was very much brainwashed in this way of thinking that white is better. And so that is one of the issues that we have to also accept. And so having said that, yes, methods sides are important, but I they are, they're not excellent, brilliant, amazing math and science, black teachers. And my answer is, they are there. They are there. But they might not want to come to your school, because that's the sentiment that's existing in your school. And so how are you going to change that? So that they can they want to come to your school, that your school becomes a school of choice for any type of educator that is out there qualified, and wants to add value, that's the that's the job of leadership. That's the job of parents. That's the job of the governing bodies. And so those three groups need to proactively work together to actually create an environment. And so before you even get to hiring, you get to bring in the teachers, get your house in order, speak about what you want to do, what you want to achieve, what kind of a school environment we want to create. And then as you embrace that philosophy, and that way of thinking, you think about what are some of the practices that are going to be important for us as a school as an institution? What does inclusive inclusion look like for us? What are the things we don't do in this environment that exclude others? And so you start by creating that environment first, before you invite the most talented, the most gifted teachers of any race and gender and background into an environment because if you invite them in into a toxic one, you're going to lose them. And so you're goin g to keep having this tense tank kind of a situation. Buhle you and I are very passionate about this, this topic. And I've suddenly realized we don't even know if Jude is still here. Yeah, and we've just been talking to each other. I told her that she is but J ude, I know that your passion in life and certainly in this podcast is about like practical takeaways, right? So I'm guessing that's where you want us to go next, but I'm gonna let you actually tell us that that's what you want us to say. I think this conversation is is a great one to be having. And I think what we're learning is that we have to be intentional about these conversations. They're uncomfortable there that doesn't change things overnight, but during the conversations that we have to be having, and I think that you've given us parents, teachers leadership, so a lot to think about, but yes, to, to close this conversation of, I would just like to close off by just asking both of you, what are the next steps, the first steps for us as parents for the schools, Buhle, you did give some insights into that now, but just that very first step for us to take, if we could finish off with that, and really appreciate it. First step that I already mentioned, is really about owning the challenge. On the challenge, say, this is a challenge that we have, be honest with yourself, be honest with with where you find yourself, owning the challenge doesn't mean that you know, your whole history and all the amazing accolades, and all the things that you have done are nullified, it just says, in terms of this area, we can do better, and we want to do better. And we are going to do the work in order to make sure that we do better. And so until that happens, we can talk until we're blue in the face arguments are going to be about there are not enough to this, there's not enough of that and, and all of these other things are going to come to own the challenge. Yep. And then I would say in terms of owning the challenge, let's frame diversity not as a problem to be solved, but as an ideal to be gained. In other words, I didn't want my girls to go to a school where representation of diversity was normal, so that I could check, tick a diversity checkbox and tell myself I was being a good South African, I wanted them to go that to that kind of school, because I genuinely believe it will make them better people, I genuinely believe that diversity is at the root of resilience. Diversity is at the root of creativity, diversity is at the root of innovation. Diversity is at the root of empathy. Diversity is at the root of most of the things I think are important for the future of work, and for the making of good human beings. And so you commit yourself to diversity, not so that you don't get into trouble with the social justice warriors, and the, you know, the politicians and so on, you commit to it, because you believe in it, and you believe that it makes a better world. And if you share that commitment, then and you then you take what what Buhle, says that you you share your commitment to that and you own the fact that you are not there yet. You may be you publish the school's percentages, in terms of racial classifications of students and teachers, and then publish a goal that you want to set for five years from now. And you track yourself every year. And you you keep being embarrassed when it's not good enough. I agree Buhle, that's the starting point. I think that the second, the second thing is about the psychological safety, of creating a place where people can talk about this, even if the things we have to say is we're not where we want to be. So psychological safety is not about getting everybody to say we're doing as well as we can and don't anybody comment, but how would we do that? What are some tips and tricks we can give people just very quickly to make it safe, especially for underrepresented groups to have a voice lead from the front. And so in terms of having the courageous conversations, so lead from the front as leaders, wide voices, strong voices, not voices that are going to pacify, you know, the status quo. And so what often happens is that SGB, you know, as SGB boards are filled with people who don't have opinions, and who don't shake the, you know, the status quo. So invite people who actually are going to add value, and and then draft a plan, work on a plan to actually make it happen. Celebrate whatever wins you get, because each small step in the right direction is a step in the right direction, however small that step is, and when we instead of getting defensive, because we're not where we should be, and we get defensive. If people point that out. We celebrate the small steps and recognize there's more work to be done. And I think if you build that kind of environment You will discover that there are people who want to come along with the journey who want to help you. And when you invite underrepresented groups to come and join you, if they can see there's a history of a place that wants to do the right thing. You might be amazed to discover that there are a lot of people who will actually sign up for the jobs you've got available, and you'll be able to change quickly. Graeme and Buhle, what a privilege it is to work with you both, I really am so grateful for your wisdom and your insights and just the impact that you have on on my life and our family's life. So thank you for sharing today with the future smart parent community. I truly am grateful for this conversation as a start, and we look forward to many more as we continue to have this conversation. Thanks, guys. Thanks. Take care. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, and you'd like to help support the future smart parent podcast, please share it with others post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review. To catch all the latest from me. You can follow us on Instagram at future smart parent or join our private Facebook group. Thanks again and I'll see you next time.