The Employment Experience

7 Recruitment Mistakes that Lead to Hiring a “Less than” 5 Star Employee - with Danielle Mulvey

July 12, 2022 Season 2 Episode 32
The Employment Experience
7 Recruitment Mistakes that Lead to Hiring a “Less than” 5 Star Employee - with Danielle Mulvey
Show Notes Transcript

Danielle Mulvey is a former flight attendant-turned-entrepreneur who has cracked the code on recruiting and retaining what she refers to as “5-Star Employees”- those game-changing, dedicated, hardworking people who make big plays and get really consistent results.

Danielle is the Chief Curator of The ALL IN Company Community, which strategically advises other entrepreneurs on attracting and hiring 5-Star Employees. She knows that in order to succeed, leaders need to get comfortable with the uncomfortable and go all in on their employees, who will reciprocate and go all in on the company.

Listen to this episode as we discuss the 7 recruitment mistakes that will lead to hiring a "less than stellar" 5 star employee.

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Danielle Mulvey is a former flight attendant, turned entrepreneur who has cracked the code on recruiting and retaining what she refers to as five star employees. They are the game changing, dedicated, hardworking people who make big plays and get real consistent results. Danielle is the chief curator of the all in company community, which strategically advises other entrepreneurs on attracting and hiring five star.

She has been developing, testing and sharing these ideas for more than 10 years now, with a staggering 90% success rate. She knows that in order to succeed, leaders need to get comfortable with the uncomfortable and go all in on their employees who will then reciprocate and go all in on the company.

Today, we are talking about the seven recruitment mistakes that lead to hiring less than five star employee. I am so interested to hear what Danielle has to say about this. So let's get into it. You are listening to the employment experience podcast. I am your host employment attorney Carly winos. This podcast is focused on providing valuable educational information.

Best practices and actionable tips. So your workplace can better work for you. Each employment experience episode is a mini educational training or informative interview designed to help businesses learn about important employment related strategies. If you are a business owner or human resources, professional, who wants to stay on top of issues affecting your business and employees.

Then you are in the right place. Let's get to work. The information in this episode is for educational purposes only. Please be sure to consult with legal counsel before making important employment related decisions. Danielle, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show. Thanks. Karly, I'm excited to get talking.

Yes, absolutely. This is such a hot topic that we are discussing today. It's the seven recruitment mistakes that lead to hiring those less than stellar employees. And I know that my audience is dying to hear all about this. There is. Everybody needs to know those tips on hiring, but more importantly, as we're gonna get into what are those mistakes that you might be making that might unintentionally limit your candidate pool.

So I'm really excited to get into that and talk about all your tick tips and tricks that you have to share with us. But before we do that, I want you to tell us a little bit about your background and what you do at the all. Company. Sure. So I started my first business at the rip old age of 25. And my hiring strategy was to hire people younger than me because they wouldn't know any better if I wasn't a very good boss.

What I really learned was that I wasn't a very good hirer. And that moment came when I woke up on a Monday morning and said, Can I call fake sick into my own company, because I just did not want to have another week dealing with this one employee who was just, oh gosh negative would not flexible would not wanna make client changes to the graphic design work and such.

And that's when I was just like, wait a. I own this company, like this is my problem. I need to fix it. So at that moment, I was just like, I need to go all in on recruiting and hiring and really understand what I need to do. Right. And what I need to do better because my strategy of hiring people younger than me was.

Not working at all, not working. Right. So that's, that's awesome. I mean, that's so important hiring and your employees are the foundation of your company, right? Mm-hmm  and if you hire the wrong person or you hire that person, that's. Dragging everybody down. I mean, everybody's gonna come down with it. So yep.

Hiring, like I said, it's, it's such a hot topic right now, hiring and recruiting. I know companies are really trying to figure out how to get those five star employees. Not only get them, but how to keep them. Right. They, we just came off with a great resignation and those companies definitely wanna keep those employees that they end up finding.

So great. So let's get into the seven recruitment mistakes that you have identified. And like I said, you can be doing everything, you know, you can be doing all the steps right. In the hiring process, but if you're making. Mistakes, right. That's really going to kind of mess you up in the long run and take away everything that you're trying to build up.

So let's let's get into that. So if I could just start with like, Where, where our ultimate result is. So the result is that you only want to hire five star employees. You want a team exclusively built of five star employees, and we define a five star employee as the top 15% of available talent in the market.

So one at a. Seven candidates is a potential five star employee. So we are looking for the top performers, the cream of the crop, the best of the best. And so I think in the hiring process not to spoil it for everyone. But the mistakes that you make kind of for are, are, are leading you to settle for less than five star employees, but we'll get specific about how you can not make these mistakes so that you're filtering out the one, two and three star candidates, and only ending up with the five star candidate that you make the job offer to.

Does that make sense? It makes total sense. And also you're looking for the cream of the crop, and I assume you're also looking for those employees who will lift the other employees up and lead those other employees. Yeah. Yeah. So you, it, it, everyone needs to work together. And so, yes. So let's dive into it because I think we'll just get into so much good stuff here.

The number one mistake is not having enough hoops in your hiring process that your candidates have to jump through. We call. Internally our, our, our hiring process, the gauntlet, and you know, it's, it's a bit, it's a bit intimidating it's, but it's a bit exciting too. And so by having hoops to jump through in your process and really being specific about things you're creating filters in your hiring that helps you start to weed out those less than five star candidates, because we wanna weed them out and filter them out.

So you don't. Get desperate. You don't feel like, oh, well I guess I'll just hire them. They're okay. They have a pulse. And they say they can do it. So it's really important that you have, you know, a gauntlet in is part of your hiring process. So, you know, quickly, our basic gauntlet is they apply online and within 24 hours, and this is all our process is outlined in every job posting within 24.

They take a preview assessment. So it is an immediate way for us to automate that filter process and that, that preview assessment automatically scores against a benchmark for a particular role. So we create a benchmark in preview for each role. And then if someone scores 70% or higher, they move on to the next step.

If they score 70% or less, Or don't even take the assessment. Well, thank you very much. You are a one, two or three star candidate, and we will not be moving you forward in our process. Then, what we do is we have them complete a skills test because you know, we're hiring for specific skills, specific aptitudes and such.

And so out of the gate, it doesn't matter if you can say it, it matters if you can do it. So we see if they can do it. And so we do skills testing and again, people that pass, move on, people who don't. Are eliminated from consideration. Then the next step in our hiring process is to do a screening interview and you know, get to know the candidate, talk to them a bit.

And now see, do we want them to move forward in that screening interview? We are Kind of screening them on the 11 qualities of a five star employee, maybe getting into some of their history and such. And then after that we will give them a practical exercise to do. Again, more skills testing, more seeing, you know, are they gonna enjoy this role?

Then we do a deep dive tandem interview. Someone else on the team that kind of keeps you honest in terms of not settling. And then our final step in our gauntlet is a shadow day. So the candidate actually comes in, we do this with remote employees as well. We just do it remotely or virtually, but they spend four or five hours with us kind of seeing what it's like a day in the life in our company and such, and that is such a key.

And so all of. All, all of these steps in the Scotland. Like if you get through it, then you have filtered out the less than five star candidates and you end up with TA da the best person available in the market for the role who has proven themselves to you in a variety of, of, of methods. Okay. So those, you just walked us through all the hoops basical.

Right. Was that everything? That's that's our hiring process. Yeah. Okay. So, so you got it like those, if you don't have a shadow day, if you're not testing for skills, if you're not doing any of that stuff, you don't have a gauntlet. You are making hiring mistake, number one and not having the hoops to jump through.

Got it. So how long does everything that you just went over? How long does that take? Does it take a week or two weeks? So it depends upon it. It kind of just depends upon the employee's availability. And maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but you know, we, we are pretty flexible and if someone has a job currently, I mean, we, we flex around we, we might do early morning or evening interviews.

We might do them on the weekend, et cetera and connect with them. So it's not a conflict with their existing job. Typically. If they get to a shadow day, they end up just taking a personal day at their regular job to complete the shadow day mm-hmm . But yeah, it can be done in about a week or two.

Yeah. So that's really interesting that you create those filters and you kind of filter out the people who might not be as serious about the position or might not be a good fit for the position. Let me play a little bit of devil's advocate here. Are there, is there a potential that you're gonna have a really good five star candidate that.

Might not be interested in jumping through the hoops. And, and to that, I'm guessing that you're gonna say, well, if you're not interested in jumping through the hoops, you're not fully committed to the job, but are you, I don't know. I wonder if, yeah. Yeah. So I, I think, I think that mindset comes with the fact that.

You know, maybe people haven't been very successful. And, or they haven't gotten very many applicants before, so it's like, oh my gosh, like, it's been so hard for me to get four applicants. If I go through this kind of brutal process, maybe I'm maybe I'm missing out. And so really what you have to do is you've gotta cast as wide of a net as possible.

So if a five star candidate represents the. 15% of available talent, statistically, that's one in seven candidates as a five star potential employee. So you would need 21 applicants in order to have three potential five star candidates. And it's a numbers game, you know, it's, it's a, it's a numbers game and you gotta stack the deck in your favor.

Once you go through that, all of your hoops. And what's what is the second recruitment mistake that companies are making? So I think, you know, it kind of ties into the gauntlet, but not automatically filtering out those candidates. So, you know, I mean, you want to, you, you wanna draw a line in the sand at each step in the gauntlet.

And so you know, by us implementing preview on the onset and that automated assessment process that automatically. To weed out candidates. So if we got 50 applicants, I'm just gonna be honest. The majority of people don't even take the preview assessment. So it's like they didn't even read the instructions.

They didn't even read the directions on, on, on the job posting that said, step number two is you need to do this within 24 hours. So we've automatically weeded them. I haven't wasted my time and energy looking at a resume and thinking, well, maybe it looks like they have the experience, et cetera, that person has already demonstrated that, you know, they don't follow instructions,  they don't pay attention to detail.

And I mean, all of us need those qualities in an employee. Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So about how many. Well, I, I don't know if you can give me a number or what percentage of employ this just seems to be a lengthy process. And so I'm wondering how many potential candidates do you typically take through the entire gauntlet?

Are you choosing one or two to take through or are you choosing more like 10 or just everybody who. Follows through with the filters and the steps, they all get to come along and you're, you're weeding out as you go. How does that work? That's exactly it. So, so, so the pipeline, so anyone could be at any stage at any given time, but most people are kind of like weeding themselves out by not completing the steps or, you know, information gets revealed in the process.

For example you know, I did a screening interview with someone. And then the next step was for them to you know, do the practical exercise, which we pay them for their time to do the practical exercise. And she was really excited after the screening interview and I really liked her. And so then I said, okay, here, I'm gonna send you an email with the practical exercise.

And then she replied back and she said, oh, you know, this is great. And I'm excited to do this. But I just wanted to say, Hey I think I'm worth like $30 an hour and you're paying $20 an hour. So, you know, I, I just wanted to touch base with you on that. And I was just like, okay. I said, I am sure you're worth $30 an hour without a doubt.

But I said, this position is budgeted and paying $20 an hour. So if this isn't right for you, then that's. Because I had a pipeline of candidates. She wasn't my only candidate. And so by, by having a good pipeline you, you don't feel desperate, right? Mm-hmm  so it was, it was fine. I mean, I, I had already done three screening interviews that day, so I still had people right at the stage that she was plus I was still getting applicants in.

So you wanna move quickly because you know, if someone kind of, if, if another employer. Is is interviewing the same candidate and realizes, oh, this is a five star employee, you know, they might snap him up before you, so you do have to move through it. But if you go all in on your recruitment and hiring, then you're gonna get the right people who then will go all in on your company.

That's what I was gonna say. Is there a situation where they would get another job offer and kind of snatched up from another company in between the hiring process? So that's something to consider as well when moving. The candidates through the process quickly. And then also at the end of that, I'm sure once they get to the end of your gauntlet, you, the employer would have to make a decision and, and potentially make a job offer pretty quickly as well.

Do you find that to be true? Yes. Yes. So for sure, you know, once, once they've successfully completed shadow day and they've really enjoyed it, but you know, what's interesting is as they're going through this process, it's this like, like factor starts to increase and their confidence in joining your organization grows the more time you're investing in.

So, you know, they're like, okay. And, and it's funny because at the end of an interview recently that we did with a candidate you know, we end like, oh, do you have any questions? You know, what have you thought about this process, et cetera. And she was a recent college graduate and she said, this has been like really refreshing.

She's like I've interviewed for so many jobs and she's like, they didn't. They didn't seem to like, want to get to know me as a person and you know, I've gotten offers, but I just didn't feel a connection I didn't feel. And that's, you know, that's kind of the secret. That's why people are resigning. The great resignation is that the employees made a.

Poor choice in accepting the position, to be honest, it's the dissatisfaction of the employee that is leading to them leaving and saying, I'm gonna find greener grass on the other side. So, so, so yes, you're investing a little extra time. You're going all in on the candidate, but it's reciprocal, you know, and, and, and if you go all in on this and this employee is experiencing like, Someone who's demonstrating that they really care and they want this to be a great fit, et cetera.

That is going to pull that five star candidate through your process because they're, they're, they're, they're being appreciated at each step they're moving on and they might be a little bit competitive of like, yeah, I'm gonna show them, I'm gonna do this. I want this position. I want to work for a company that cares this much.

If they. If they hire everyone like this, and I'm joining a team of like really good people, I'm not joining a team where, you know, someone can breathe and collect a paycheck. Exactly. And I think, you know, it's a two way street and I think that's where employers miss the mark a lot. They think they're interviewing the job candidate just as much as the candidate is interviewing them.

They want it to be a match going both ways because if it's not, and if you're just. Looking to hire the first random person that comes along and they're not happy. Where do you think you're gonna end up in a month? You're gonna end up with the employee leaving. You're gonna be back in the same exact spot that you were in to begin with and you're gonna have to start all over.

So I do think employers miss the mark on that, they think that. The candidate needs the job more than they need them type of mentality. And they should be so lucky to be offered a job. When in fact they, they do have other options and they do want it to be a match. And I would assume most employees would want it to be long term, especially if they're going through all these steps to get there on the first place.

Yeah. And we've taken people through to shadow day and, you know, really just loved them up to this point. And then they complete shadow day and say, oh my gosh, I thought I wanted to like get into construction and construction material supply and such, but I think I'm gonna stay in property management and it's like, great, that's fine.

We paid you for five hours to join us and bought you lunch. And this is.  because we, because it's not something that's gonna come to a realization two months later, and then we've gotta like revert. We've lost two months if we've brought them on board and then it takes them two months to find another job and realize that it, this was, this was a mismatch, which is so costly to the company as well.

It's, it's much more cost effective to pay. Like you said, for the couple hours in a lunch than having to find. Another employee to fill the position, you know, the shadow day. I really like that idea. And I've never heard of a company doing that before. And it's really interesting because yeah, I, I really haven't.

You know, when you're, when you're young and you're asked, what do you wanna be when you grow up? You say, you know, I wanna be a doctor or a lawyer, or, you know, those are just the first two things that popped into my head. I'm an attorney. But do you really know what they do day in and day out, right?

You're gonna be spending so much time in that position. Like, are you sitting at a desk all day? Are you someone that doesn't like sitting at a desk all day? Do you need to be out moving around? Like these are things that are really important to find. Ahead of time. So that's a, that's a really good do a lot of companies do that, cuz I had never heard of it before.

No, they don't a lot of people, I mean a lot of, I'd say 95% of companies make one or all of these hiring mistakes you know, and their lies the problem. That's why, that's why we're trying to educate the world. Exactly. And so at your all in company, do you do hiring for other companies or do you teach companies how to hire for their own company?

So we, we, we guide entrepreneurs on personalizing and customizing their own recruitment, hiring and onboarding and retention assets. So, you know, the hard part. Looking at a blank piece of paper and starting from scratch. So we guide them on how to use the five star employee rating system which, you know, you, you can use with existing employees and to assess new talent, and it really kind of gives you then a blueprint that you can use.

For retention and you know, what you need to work on with those employees and such and what they want to improve upon, et cetera. But yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of other aspects in too, because it's really like, we can't do, I, I, I don't believe we can do it for you. You, it's your company, just like I say, you have to own your financials.

You have to own your, your recruitment and hiring process. Right. And I would think it would be difficult to see if you were a true match with somebody. You wouldn't be working with yourself. The, the person who's working with the new, the new employer or the job candidate really needs to see if it's a fit.

So on that point, do you, what do you think about having other employees sit in on the interview process to see if they would be a good fit with the potential candidate? Oh, absolutely. So, you know, as I mentioned in our gauntlet, sort of before shadow day, when you do the deep dive interview, it's a tandem interview.

And so you definitely want other team members in on that interview. There's one person that's typically driving the interview and then that other person can, you know, ask extra other questions, et cetera, but is what's really important is, is, are, are both people in that organization hearing the same things about that candidate and you know, it also.

The lead interviewer a little on a little bit more honest, too. In terms of, you know, when they're assessing that candidate on their 11 qualities or the aptitudes and skills needed for the role it just you know, solidifies that we're not gonna settle. Right. And also, like I keep saying to make sure that the personalities are a good match too, right?

Yes. Because so many times you can have the skills necessary and the education and the background, and you're a perfect fit on paper. And maybe when you're presenting yourself to a supervisor, but do mesh well with the, with your other coworkers that you're gonna be working alongside and working together on a day to day basis, because that's another thing, you know, if people are not getting along or they're rubbing each other the wrong way They're not gonna be productive and nothing's gonna get done.

Absolutely. So if we're interviewing for a position, then the, you know, I I'm such a nerd. I really kind of enjoy this and geek out over it in our company. So I'm always involved. Typically, but but, but I always include the person that would be on the team or the supervisor or whatever that the person would be working with.

So you're exactly right. And then we're also getting that, that personality and that culture fit during that shadow day too, because we share a meal together, you know, that gives us an opportunity to be a little bit more casual and and, and get to know them as a person a little bit more. Good. And so I noticed on your checklist, one of the items also that you had, that we hadn't discussed was the importance of reference checks.

Ah, yes, yes, yes. Again, Mo most companies don't do it, but like you're shooting yourself on the foot. If you don't take that step. . So what type of information are you looking for and what type of information do you actually receive from the reference checks? Mm-hmm  because I'll tell you why, you know, I'm an employment attorney and I Al always advise my clients.

You cannot give. Just have, have a general policy not to give references to right. Employers calling for former employees because it's a liability, right? I mean, they could Sue you for mm-hmm  it is defamation or it OUS interference with a business relationship. I've defended many of those cases before.

So I'm just wondering, do you get information out of reference checks and, and what type of inform.  so the, the, the, the first information I get is from the actual candidate. So in the interview process, we talk about the fact that we are going to be checking references. So when we are reviewing their resume and talking about their prior employment history you know, I'm, I'm saying, okay, who is your supervisor at Acme supply?

Alright. Joanne. Okay. So if we have you set up a reference check with Joanne what's Joanne gonna tell us about you. How long did you work with Joanne? What was it like to, you know, did you like working for Joan? What were her strengths? What were her weaknesses? What is she gonna say? So like it forces the candidate to get real honest, because there's a threat of a reference check.

Right. So we have a really good indication of what's gonna go on with that reference check. Without even having called kinda catches Joanne . Yeah. So, you know, and, and, and so, so, so, so it could. It could reveal something. It could reveal that this person isn't really good with authority or, you know, whatever circumstances.

So there's been times where it's been like they've sunk themselves based off of describing and talking about their former boss. I could see that I didn't have to do the reference. Yeah, I could see somebody saying, because I've already eliminated them. Joanne and I didn't get along. Joanne and I butted heads.

Joanne was never happy with my work product. I could see somebody saying that. Yeah. And like I said, then again, you don't have to call Joanne because you just got it from the person directly, which is. Perfect. That's genius, actually. Yeah. And, and, and now, and now, and now I've, I've filtered them out. And so, and, and, and then to, to your point, so, so I, we've already done such an assessment at this point.

So if I am, you know, when, when it gets to the point of making the reference checks, it's kind of been a threat of reference check up to that point, and I have enough information. I knew who to talk. Like I don't have to ask the candidate for their list of references. I've already gotten that information during the interview process and such.

And so, you know, now you can call. And, and if you do talk to the, you know, if you can get to the supervisor, let's be honest. If a, if, if, if someone was a stellar employee and you called that supervisor directly and they worked for like a larger company, but you were able to get ahold of that supervisor and this employee was.

A delight and great. Do you not think that that supervisor is going to say, yeah, he's a delight and great, right? It it's the I'm sorry, I can't comment.  that is the red flag that raises the red flag. Exactly. Yep. So, I mean, you know, yes, employers should be consistent in their policies, et cetera. But off the record, You know, a, a, a former, a supervisor who wants to see a former employee flourish and grow is going to, you know, say, yeah, that was a, that was a great guy in practice.

They're gonna be happy to talk about you. They're gonna be happy to rave about you and say, good things agreed if, if, if yeah, if you, if, if you, if you get this wall that says we can't, we can't, we can't, that's telling you that. Probably some issues there and that's your filter to say, okay, let's move on to the next candidate in the pipeline.

Exactly. Good. And then, so I saw a huge statistic of yours that this hold on. Let me see that you have a 90% success rate for, is that hiring these five star employees? Is that true? Yes. Yes. Wow. Yes, yes. Yes. So most companies, most companies are about 25% effective, so it's kind of luck. One out of four hires ends up being a five star employee, which means like three outta four are average ho hum or worse kind of hires.

So when you have an objective process and system. That you're using and you can make it better over time because you start to get more information and more intelligence on what works and what doesn't work in terms of aptitudes, qualities, and skills for a role. Now you have a repeatable process that will produce consistent results.

Now people are people. Things change in someone's life. Someone could accept a job and you know, their boyfriend breaks up with them a week later and kicks them outta the house and their life tailspins and this, that the other, and they end up not being of the five star employee. So that's why it's a 90%.

Success rate. But, but, but if you follow a proven process and system, you get consistent results. Right? Exactly. I I'm thinking about everything that you're saying and it's, it's so true. I have had so many times that clients have called me and said, we just hired this employee. He's been with us for a week and he's just not cutting.

After a week what can we do? Can we terminate him? And I'm thinking, geez, I mean, you went through all that work to hire this person, and now it's not working out. If you would just go through your steps. The, the, I forget what you called it, but the, where you're, you're testing their skills or the hands on system aspect.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, this particular client that I'm thinking of would've been able to identify that they couldn't do the. Immediately, you know, I think so many times employers they're they're scrambling, right? They need to fill the position. They need to get someone in there. They're like panicking a little bit.

But this is the foundation that you're building and it's it's so time consuming, the turnover is so time consuming. So you're better off putting in this time on the front end and having it pay off long term. Exactly because, you know, I'm, I'm sorry, but I'm, I'm gonna call you out because you said they put all this work in hiring this person and I'm like, They really didn't put any work into hiring the person because they obviously didn't test them.

They obviously didn't put them through a gauntlet. So, you know, they did, they probably Googled some questions and brought the person in the person could fog Amir and said they could start on Monday were willing to accept the position, said they had experience. So good enough for us. You're hired.

Yeah. And putting in the work. I know you're calling me out. I think that what I meant here, let me, let me clarify. You're gonna go ahead and pull me out. I think they're probably they're putting in the wrong work they're putting in the wrong work, right? The wrong work, spinning their wheels. Yes. They're doing all the things.

But it's not the right things, right. They're ma they're making your seven recruiting mistakes. They're emotions. They're making all your mistakes. Exactly good. So did we go through, I'm just looking through my list here. Did we go through all the mistakes? Yeah. So we can, we can kind of I think we kind of hit on them, but just, just to recap, so number three is delaying responsiveness.

So, you know, we talked about, I mean, when I, when we go to recruit and hire people, I'm kind of like, okay, is my weekend free this weekend? Can I squeeze in some stuff? Because. You know, I mean, if someone's working, if someone's reaching out to them on a Saturday or Sunday, they're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.

Like, I've, this takes the stress off of me. If I'm, if I'm working so delaying responsiveness is another mistake, you gotta be on it, like get serious about this. And it just helps you move through the process faster. Number four is failing to test for skills and aptitudes. I think we beat that one to a pulp.

And then number five is is rushing through and skipping the process. I, I, I made this mistake last summer. I hired two family friends. They happened to be twins who recent college graduates and there was going to, you know, they wanted to move to New York. COVID was still a little crazy and such.

I, you know, I, I hired them just, you know, on a temporary kind of paid internship basis, they were gonna be around for about three months. I didn't take 'em through the process because, oh, they're only gonna be here for three months. They're family, friends, they just graduated from an Ivy league institution.

They're gonna be great. You're breaking your rules. Yeah. And what happened? Tell us what happened. Proving my point, proving my point that I, you know, I should have taken, I, I, I like kicked myself. Like, even though it wasn't, you know, they were paying made, making just a modest amount and such, you know, I just kind of didn't put the same seriousness into it cuz it was three months, family friend, like all that stuff.

So like yeah. You can't even do it with paid interns or family friends. So don't rush through or skip any steps in the process because you know, it, that you'll have a less than 90% success rate in that, in that decision. Number six is we talked about this, not involving existing employees and interviews.

It's so important that, that they feel part of the process and making sure that it's a, it's a good fit for everyone. And then number seven we also talked about, which was skipping over reference checks. You can't do that. All right. Got it. Well, I love that list. Like I said, at the beginning, it's, it's important to do the right things, but it's even more important not to do the wrong things and kind of shoot yourself in the foot as you're going through this process.

And I assume it takes a little bit of practice too, because it's. Seems like you are not wanting to rush through the process, but you're also trying to do it as efficiently as possible because you wanna get the job offer out. You know, this person is potentially looking for other jobs is, is maybe a little bit anxious about hearing back.

So I'm, I'm guessing it's a little bit of a balance and takes a little bit of practice too. Once you get going. For sure. Yeah. I mean, and, and it gets better over time and you get better and you start to realize things. I mean, like we had an employee in our claims processing business who got through training and, you know, had been with us for about three months and, and resigned.

And I'm like, oh my gosh, like what, what wrong, how this, that the other. His wife got offered a position in the UK. And so they were moving. And so I thought to myself, well, this has never happened to me before. Do I need to change something in my process or system to avoid this? And you know what? I'm just like, this was a fluke, this was an anomaly and such.

But I do look at just like, when I wasn't really happy with those family friends I hired. Okay. What, what did I do wrong here? I hired them because they were family, friends. Right. You know? Right. There you go. So, so success and failure leave clues.  good. And with that we will wrap up. I, I love that. Danielle, thank you so much for being here.

I really appreciate it. I know that my audience is going to just absolutely love the information that you've shared today. It's such a hot topic and is so needed. So thank you so much for sharing that with us. Yeah. Cheers to going all in.