Rabbit Junk - 2026

Brian Prime sits down with Dr. JP of Rabbit Junk for a wide-ranging conversation about creativity, identity, and longevity. JP reflects on Rabbit Junk’s more than twenty years of abrasive, genre-blurring industrial music, recent singles, and plans for a new album, while also discussing his move from San Diego back to Seattle and his work in academia supporting non-traditional students. The discussion moves through themes of neurodivergence, boundaries, self-worth, and community, touching on Dark Force Fest, the underground scene, and the role music plays as both refuge and resistance in turbulent times.

Featured Songs:
Rabbit Junk - Existential Dread (Wtf)

https://rabbitjunk.com for more Rabbit Junk.

https://darkforcefest.com for more information about Dark Force Fest.

Void Signal intro courtesy of Processor. Visit https://processor2.bandcamp.com for more Processor.

Transcript

Hello again and welcome to Void Signal. I'm Brian Prime, and you are my dear listener. I've got another chat for you, this time with Dr. JP Anderson of Rabbit Junk. Rabbit Junk creates abrasive, genre-blurring industrial music driven by distortion, attitude, and raw energy. It's sonic chaos with a message. The project thrives at the intersection of noise, rhythm, and rebellion. Together with Rabbit Junk's other half, Sum Grrl, they've been releasing music for a little over twenty years. In that time, Rabbit Junk has headlined Dark Force Fest, soundtracked video games, and continued to delight fans with one blistering release after another with no sign of slowing down. I sat down to chat with JP from his home in Seattle some weeks ago to discuss Rabbit Junk, his relocation from San Diego, current career path, and the future.
But before we get to that, thank you as always to Processor for Void Signal's theme song. You can find more Processor at processor2.bandcamp.com or anywhere music haunts.
Void Signal is four years old and has been ad-free from the beginning because it's made for people, and powered by people. Please consider visiting voidsignal.net or patreon.com/voidsignal and support the Void Signal project for as little as two dollars. You'll get extra content and help ensure the Void Signal project continues.
Okay, our time is at an end again. Here's the discussion with JP, I hope you have a good time. Until next time, stay safe, stay loud. Cheers.

JP: [00:00:00] Um, a no, uh, camera thing. 

Brian Prime: Uh, we can do cameras if you want. I don't mind. Uh, it's dark in here. I can turn mine on. Um, I I see a really cool mic. Yeah, my, uh, I got my glowy mic. Let me turn a light on in here. Hold on one sec. There we go.

JP: Do I have, is my camera even on? I don't even, I don't see anything that looks like a camera's on. 

Brian Prime: There we go. I see you now. 

JP: I wanna use my nice camera. What the fuck? 

Brian Prime: Okay.

All right. Let me close some stuff. Yeah, sorry, I didn't notice that you had joined. I was like listening to wrapping up in the background and was like. Real jamming out and stuff. Uh, yeah, just revisiting Apocalypse for Beginners. Um, that's a great record. Thank you. That love a hell song is a fucking banger.

But, uh, yeah. Good stuff. 

JP: That's so real. [00:01:00] 

Brian Prime: Yes. Uh, very real. Uh, well, we can go ahead and get started if you're ready. Yeah, I'm ready to go. Alright, cool. Uh, so, uh, welcome back to Void Signal. I'm joined by JP from Rabbit Junk. Thank you for making this work. I appreciate your time. Um, it's good to talk to you again and see you.

Rabbit junk has been a little bit, you relocated and, uh, put out some singles this year. Did a remaster how are things going? How are you and how is the project itself?

JP: Well, let's see. Yeah, so it, it, um, relocated in, it was 2024, right? So I think I've been back in Seattle for 18 months. It's a good change. Started a new, a new job at the University of Washington, which I'm pretty happy with so far. Tough when you're, you know, when you're a band [00:02:00] and things like relocating new jobs, it all eats into your time to make a record or just make other kinds of content videos, something like that.

So actually I'm glad that it seems so Grab drink has been busy because I, you know, most of the time I'm like, oh man, there's, I'm not doing enough. And it seems really quiet. But you're right. We, I did, um, recently release a single called Existential Dread. App parentheses, what the fuck? 

Brian Prime: Mm-hmm. 

JP: Excellent song.

And which has been, which has been it's been, that was a really fun song to make. It's been really well received. I just basically had to get that feeling off my chest because every day, you know, I'm checking out the news, I'm checking out the state of the world, and I can't think of anything more intelligent to say in my brain than what the fuck that's about As far as goes, I don't have any other analysis.

I'm just like, this is unfucking real. What the, yeah. Fuck. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Uh, listening to and just what I think 

JP: I'm out of, what the fucks? I think there's no more, there's no way I can produce another, [00:03:00] what the fuck? Come on. And then it's amazing the news cycle figures out another way to draw that phrase outta me.

So, 

Brian Prime: yeah. 

JP: That's all that song's about. Just a, it's a simple song. I made it quickly. I didn't overthink it. It wasn't about being, you know, musically progressive. I wasn't trying to impress anybody. I was like, I just need to get this truth off my chest. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Uh, well done. It's a 

JP: silly song. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. It really resonated, uh, with myself as well, uh, who's also had that constant feeling of like, oh my God, is this our world?

JP: Yeah. What the fuck is going on? And then, yeah, as you said, also a remastered version of Rava Jones's kind of number one anthem. I don't give a fuck. Uh, that came about because a independent film company got ahold of me, said, Hey, we really want to use this track. And, um. I'm sorry. I've been in meetings all day and my voice is a little hoarse, so I keep like going, I'm trying to like clear, I don't know.

Brian Prime: It's all good. 

JP: That's what they said, Hey, if you really wanna use this track, we [00:04:00] want to use it in the film and we want to use it as closing credits. And I said, you know, I'd love for you to use the track, but there's a problem. The track has a uncleared sample that, um, I have failed for many years to get fixed.

So if you're gonna use the track, actually I need to. License it and I need to replace the sample. So actually just, um, rerecorded the uncleared sample part just in my studio. Just kind of made a version of the sample myself and, uh, decided yeah, also this song could use some updating. That was also a, a track I made in 2014 without, I, I wasn't trying to make it sound good.

I mean, I was just, just making it just being real. That was, you know, that's how I felt in 2014, like. I have so many fucks to give. It's exhausting. I think I need to write a song about the opposite and just feel like I don't give a fuck. Obviously I give massive fucks. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, 

JP: you wouldn't write a song.

I don't give a fuck unless you gave a fuck. So yeah. I've also put that out recently and that's well, enjoying that. And then despite that [00:05:00] being, you know, rabbi's kind of most iconic song is actually a lot of people who haven't heard it, this Ava junk is a kind of an obscure band, right? So it's, what I've been noticing is that I put that out and a lot of people are like, who's this band and what's going on?

So yeah, that's what I've done. And, uh, what else have I done this year? 2025 was a weird one. 

Brian Prime: Mm-hmm. And its out. Any other and 

JP: it's almost over. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. I was gonna ask, that seems a 

JP: little light, doesn't it? Isn't it? Uh, no. I wanna say there 

Brian Prime: was like three or four singles wasn't there also, um, 

JP: I'm checking, I'm checking my disco logs right now.

Let's, 

Brian Prime: I was just listening to let me see. Kings and Corpses. Oh, Kings 

JP: and Corpses. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. 

JP: Yes. Alright. Put out that track too. So three, 

Brian Prime: Indoor kids. 

JP: Fuck, you're totally right. Indoor kids. Four. Okay. Yep. 

Brian Prime: Not bad. About one per, per quarter for the year, if you would. Yeah. About 

JP: one per quarter. [00:06:00] Yeah, totally.

That's about, that's about my speed right now. I, um, am really serious about getting a new record out in 2026. 

You know, it's been a while since Apocalypse for the beginner, uh, APO, apocalypse for Beginners. I can't even say my own album names. Right. But, um, it's time, right? That was 20. Mm-hmm. 22 was, so yeah, it's overdue.

That feels 

Brian Prime: really too far longer. I like a hundred. That 2022. Yeah, I think, yeah. 

JP: I think it was 2022, so yeah, four years. That's, yeah, it's time for. It time for a new rap drink album. So I've been writing songs kind of with the intention of trying to set the tone or the sound of like what a new album would be.

Mm-hmm. You know, you might notice that like that the, all the singles I did this year, they all sound really different.

Brian Prime: Yeah, for sure. And I think 

JP: I'm, I use singles as to like, okay, what do I want, what do I want the vibe of the whole record to be, you know, I want to try and commit to, uh, a vibe or a tone, but in order to figure out what that is, I.

Put these singles out with the idea of trying that on. And I think, you know, maybe existential [00:07:00] dread is, is the vibe of a new Rob drink album. Make the songs intuitively do it pretty quickly. Don't overthink. Um, don't try and be fancy. Try and capture the simple truths. Sure. And that'll be a record.

So, 

Brian Prime: yeah. As exciting as all of that is, and I'm looking forward to hearing, you know, whatever it is you end up making next. I was curious and I don't, and you know, I'm not trying to dig in your personal life or anything but I do find it fascinating that you, you know, working in academia. How is, uh, how's your new job going?

How is that? 

JP: Okay. So I really, I really like my new job, but that's 'cause my new job is not a typical academic job, so I am a professor. And, you know, so, I mean, I'm still teaching and I did a more like conventional professor job down in San Diego at San Diego State. And I and there's a lot of things that were.

Tough about San Diego for my family. Um, there's a lot of reasons why I ended up leaving the [00:08:00] job. So it wasn't just all the job, but I think also looking back, you know, I'm not sure how happy I was being like a, just a regular professor. You know, when you're a regular professor, if people aren't familiar with the business, what that really means is that you're first and foremost a researcher.

You're writing articles, you're writing books, um, that's the primary job you do. And then the teaching, which is what everybody sees is actually really your secondary gig. It's, uh, it's sort of the afterthought. There's a lot of pressure in the business to put as little energy into teaching as possible and reserve all that time and energy for your research.

'cause it's your research that's gonna get you promoted, it's gonna get you tenure, all that sort of stuff. And I just, yeah, I wasn't real, I wasn't super happy with that. I always kind of felt like I was scamming the students a little bit, you know? It was like, uh, like. It's like, oh yeah, you know, the students come first.

We care about the students. It's all about students, but it's not, it's really, you know, it's about the research Now that, that sounds like a criticism and it's really not. The fact is, is that, science is really important. [00:09:00] It helps us build a, a collective understanding of human experience and the world that we live in.

And if there aren't people who are. Given space to create research, then we're just, you know, we'll just get slowly dumber as a society like we need to keep up. And so I'm glad there are people out there doing the job. Just, I just think it's for everybody. So I got a, a new job at the University of Washington where I teach in a special program that is all about access to higher education for people who were otherwise experiencing barriers outside of their control.

You know, most of my students are. Older, you know, in their thirties, in their forties, there are people who have maybe done a little bit of undergraduate, but for all sorts of reasons they weren't able to complete that degree. Let's say they say, you know, kids jobs, stuff like that, but also active duty military things like cancer diagnoses, people found themselves unhoused and living in a car that's, you know, tragedy strike.

And then people aren't able to continue their degree and then they're kind of held back. [00:10:00] Working a lot of service jobs as a result. And so this is a program that exists for people just like that. They can't come to campus. That's not realistic for them. They're not gonna be able to, do the kind of a regular campus experience.

And so all the learning is online, but it's personalized learning. So they get, they get lots of one-on-one time with me. Lots of guidance from me. And then I've also, I, I was them at one point, I, uh, I, you know, I went back to, um. I, I went to undergrad at the age of 29. I already had a child. I was working the whole time.

And it was a massive struggle, but I didn't see any other way to I didn't see any other way to make more money. You know, I've been, I had been, I was a high school dropout, at I, I dropped outta high school at 17. I worked a lot of dead end and blue collar jobs and dangerous jobs. I've been injured on jobs, like, been through that whole thing, and I just was like.

When I had my first kid, I was like, fuck this. You know, this is a total dead end. I will, end up with a, some sort of [00:11:00] terrible injury by the time I'm 40 and not be able to work, you know, so I went back to school, but it was a tough thing to do with because, you know, I had the rest of life going on.

And I was able to keep going. 'cause I, I, you know, I, I got, uh, I got support and kindness from professors, right? And so when I saw this job open up, I was like, this is a real opportunity for me to give that. Or, you know, pay that forward. And so I really like the job 'cause the students are, we share a story I think, in a lot of ways, and I get to help 'em out.

So if anybody listening, if you're, uh, if you were once upon a time trying to complete your undergraduate degree and something got in the way, you should, you should look into this program that I teach for it. So it's University of Washington and it's called the Integrated Social Sciences Program.

Brian Prime: You can have AP 

JP: from Rabbit Junk, be your professor. 

Brian Prime: That's awesome. And, you know, good for you for, um, going back and, and changing your course. Uh, I was a non-traditional student myself of, you know, I went to college in my twenties and, you know, you don't know who you are at that point, like you're [00:12:00] just.

Like surfing through life. Uh, so it wasn't until going back as a non-traditional student uh, the old guy in the classroom, um, that I was like, okay, I care about this. And I, you know, found something that I felt good at. And that makes such a huge difference to find something that like, feels natural to you.

I think so. Yeah. 

JP: Yeah. You know, and I know that a lot of the students have coming into the program at Teach in there. Their self-esteem isn't in real good shape, you know, like, and and they're worried they're not smart enough and they're worried that this is a crazy thing to do. And it, I, and I, you know, the feedback they get from me is, I'm like, you are, you are way more, you're way smarter, way more worldly than you were at 18.

And, and guess what? You probably are in comparison to the 18 year olds on campus, like you absolutely deserve to be here. You have so much to contribute. So, yeah, non-traditional students is my jam. I'm really glad I'm doing this work. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, me too. Uh, I'm glad that, uh, there are professors like yourself out there who are doing [00:13:00] that.

How has moving to Seattle I mean, obviously very busy and, life as a whirlwind and everything, um, but do you feel that being back in Seattle is going to be conducive to the future of rabbit junk? 

JP: Yeah, I think so. I think, uh, Seattle's the closest thing I have to a home and it's by no means a perfect city, but no places.

It, the, the weather's hard. I mean, it, it's grizzly and it's cold, and it, for some people that doesn't bother them. For me, it bothers me a lot. Like I, I struggle with weather. I just, that's totally subjective, but I think there is, um. Like a musical legacy here that I feel, and I think it does influence the music that I make.

So I mean, I, I, it's like the, the completely unglamorous punk that has come out of the Pacific Northwest did have something special to contribute to music, you know, and I think it got [00:14:00] it when, you know, when it got captured by. The big labels in the nineties and sort of, and became grunge.

I, I, I really feel like it lost a lot of what it was contributing, but there was a lot that was there. Um, and I, I do, I feel that, like in the city, I feel the echoes, the ghosts of, I guess what you would call the old grunge scene. And I'm like, oh yeah, you know, that was cool. That was a cool thing to grow up around, even though I shit on it the whole time when I was here.

I was into death, metal or whatever, and none, and none of it was heavy enough for me. Right. I was like, this is like, yeah. You know? But now I look back and I'm like, no, that was a really, that was a really cool thing. That was a, like a working class, artistic movement. And and and it also, there's, it wasn't perfect in lots of ways, right?

So it's, it was. Mostly inadvertently exclusionary of, of non-white experiences. You know, I mean, it was a real white movement, um, that, but that's not, that's not totally true. You know, there's, there, there's some diversity in those [00:15:00] stories. But yeah I, I do think it, it plays into probably the next rap joke album being in Seattle.

I mean, I think there's like, there's gonna be a sort of, I think there's, yeah, gonna be a sort of grungy. Aspect. To, and I think I even heard that on the last existential dread, that single, I think I hear it in there. You know, like there's I am going to write this guitar riff and I don't 

Brian Prime: care.

JP: I don't care if somebody thinks it's original or crafty or whatever. I'm just going to write what my fingers wanna play. You know, I, I, I love that present embodiedness of, um, of that old Seattle punk scene. And so, yeah, I wanna, I wanna take it forward,

Brian Prime: gotcha. Nice. Good answer. That makes me excited for the, the future of it.

Good 

JP: answer. You got an a. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. I mean, I like to be encouraging to guess, like, oh, good answer. Yeah. Oh, you did great. Oh well done. You know, everybody loves that. Everybody loves, uh, some positive reinforcement now and again. They do 

JP: positive reinforcement's. Very important. [00:16:00] 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Is there anything you've learned from your.

Professional job, your academia work that has transferred over to Rabbit junk, is there any sort of usage of like one skill to another? Is, do you find that there's much transfer there? 

JP: Oh, what's going on? You froze up. Oh, okay. Back. You with me? Yeah, I'm back. Okay. I think I. It's kind of like, you know, what's the overlap?

What, you know, maybe we can think of it in terms of skills or perspective or knowledge or something. What about being a, what about being Professor Anderson informs Rapid ju and I and, and I think a, a shitload of things that do, you know, one, I think there's an energy in Ravi Junk that is a rebellion against my professional life.

And so 

where, um. To be a professor, you really have, [00:17:00] you have to be organized for, you have to be organized. And 

So that means that when I go into the studio, it's I don't want to be as organized. I want to, you know, I. Well, I just want to do something a little bit for myself. Uh, you know, being a professor, I think when you're doing a good job at it, it's actually a it's an emotional labor job.

It's a caretaking job. Like you are facilitating somebody else's learning journey. That's a lot of responsibility. The stakes are pretty high. A professor's in a position to do a lot of harm if they are not being taught that, you know, they can fuck up somebody's life. They can send terrible messages, right?

Somebody's self-esteem could be pretty hurt by a impatient professor or. Um, an irritated professor, right. You know, so when people are in the process of learning, they're pretty vulnerable. And so you have to be, you have to, you have to stay constantly aware of like, somebody's at a real vulnerable, this, this is a soft spot kind of place to be [00:18:00] in.

They're at, at their learning edge, so that influences, you know, when I go to the studio, I think it, it's, it. You know, I'm not as, I'm not trying to be as careful about people's feelings, I think at that point. And I think I need that space. I think I deserve that space, honestly. Right. I can just be like, I'm just going to do what I would do whatever I want here.

The being a professor and then my other, other professional life, I'm a consultant and I do, uh, like, um. Professional development and belonging consulting. So I work with, uh, government and, and, private institutions who are, trying to figure out how to have like inclusive workspaces, you know, workspaces that people actually want to go to, where they thrive, where people's, uh, talent is, is fully available.

And, um. I think professing or professing being a professor and being a consultant, I think it's has made me a lot more emotionally intelligent. I think that those, because they both, these jobs require that they require like a, a sensitive [00:19:00] deployment of power,

uh, because in both cases someone could be shortsighted, they could be sort of domineering, um. You could walk into a learning. That's what it's, I mean, they're both learning spaces. When you're a consultant, you're teach, it's a teaching job as well, really. Right? I mean, you are you're engaging with the organization and they're telling you like, Hey, here's, here's what we think needs to be done, and here's what we, here's what we want.

But you're, here's ultimately you, you are, you're teaching them like, oh, you know, even if you're doing problem solving, like, here's some things you could try, you know, have you thought about this? What are you paying attention to? And um. It's, it would be easy to fuck up those things by just being domineering.

And by not, not really putting the client or the student's needs first, it's easy to let your, you know, your ego could get in the way of that whole process that could happen so easily. So I think both of those things may be more emotionally intelligent, and I think that's maybe the biggest thing I'd ever bring into the studio is that like, I'm, I'm working [00:20:00] with people to help help 'em become more self-aware.

So what kind of self-awareness work am I doing? What kind of self-examining am I doing? Am I holding myself accountable? You know, what's really going on with jp? Which is a useful question to ask yourself when you're trying to write a song. Whoa, what's going on here? What are you trying to tell yourself right now, man?

Yeah. And, um. Yeah. 

Brian Prime: Uh, would the other half of rabbit junk say that you've grown more emotionally intelligent? 

JP: Yes. Okay. But that doesn't necessarily mean she would say I'm easier to be married to. 

Brian Prime: Okay. Fair enough. 

JP: She would say, oh, yeah, JPS grown. JPS grown a lot. But, I, uh, I think in a lot of ways I'm the more difficult partner in this relationship.

Okay. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. You seem like a diva. 

JP: Yeah. A hundred percent. You got it. You got it. Yep. I'm the more, I, uh, I'm the more glammy one, I'm the more sort of like, passionate one. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm the more gesticulating loud, feelings run [00:21:00] away from me kind of person and, and, uh, God, I wouldn't wanna be married to me.

Holy shit. 

Brian Prime: Uh. Good times. Uh, a lot of work. Uh, it is exciting that, uh, you guys are gonna be playing. Just to switch gears really quick, uh, that you guys are playing Dark Force Fest again this coming year. That's going to be a thrilling, uh, this will be your like third time playing Dark Forest Fest.

JP: Yeah. Third time. And we love Dark Forest Fest. 

Brian Prime: Mm-hmm. 

JP: What a cool scene. Every single time we're there, we're like, man, this is fucking awesome. That is, um, absolutely our most favorite festival. It's so weird. It's just so unique, the space that they're making, you know? Um, really a bizarre place. I find like, I spend three days engaged in completely bizarre conversations with people.

You know? I feel like Dark Force Fest is a place where you go and like. [00:22:00] All the masks are off. I think people are just, they just disclose, which is just great. It, it doesn't feel, and nobody's trying to be anything. They're not at Dark Force Fest. I feel like it's a completely authentic space, and so we, you know, we really enjoy it.

Yeah. We're, we're, um, I don't know what day we're playing, maybe hopefully Saturday, but but not sure. But yeah, we're really honored to come back for a third time. And I feel like this is the best lineup that they've had in all the three years that we played. Would agree. Particularly excited to see, uh, light Asylum.

I don't know if you're familiar with them, but that's, almost seeing the light asylum for years. And so the big challenge I think for me is that there's a lot of bands I wanna see and, but I also have to perform at some point. And so I can't be in the crowd and like. Bouncing around and yelling because by the time I get on stage, I'm gonna be completely exhausted.

So I have to figure out some sort of like self-management plan for dark folks. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. And it's always [00:23:00] a bit of a. Balance of trying to find the time to see and do everything that I want to and everything that there is. 'Cause it's like, ah, this band is playing it, blah, blah, blah. But I also want to go walk the halls and look at, stuff people have made or, catch a panel or, you know, see one of the other dozens of activities that are going on.

Or just catch up with people you know. Of like, oh, now that person like, let's hang out and go have a smoke outside. And oh shit, it's time for such and such. Uh, gotta go. So yeah. Yeah, it is, uh, fun. Now it's breaking 

JP: act, right? Like mm-hmm. Yeah. There's, there's, there's no shortage of lots of things that you want to do, and the catching up with people usually ends up taking up most of my time.

And so, and I, I have, I, the last few that we went, I remember, I can't remember I missed somebody and I was like, I really wanted to see them. And I was like, oh you know, I got to catch up with. This person. That's okay. Oh, I think I want, I wanted to see the uh, typo negative cover band, because I'm a big Typo fan, you [00:24:00] know, and I was like, that would be great.

And I totally missed it. 'cause I was sitting in the bar drinking 

Brian Prime: people. Yeah. 

JP: And I was like, oh shit. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, had those experiences before where I'm like, oh, I missed whatever thing I wanted to see. But I do agree with you. This lineup for this coming year is pretty exciting. Light asylum is one I'm excited for.

Um, I'm thrilled to have, uh, east Coast friends get to see Matt Black. We have the luxury of having them out here on the West Coast, so, you know, I've been able to see them a couple times, but like, east Coast people are jazzed about that. Of like off. Yeah, I know that's, 

JP: yeah. It's gonna be super, super cool.

And it's a, um, it's a festival that isn't gonna grow a whole lot either, right? Mm-hmm. It's, it's just, it is like just constrained by the fact that it's in this crazy castle Hotel and tickets is always gonna remain small. And there is something nice about that too, because it 

It's like, it, it kind of remains like a little community.

In that way because it certainly, [00:25:00] if the promoters wanted to double the size of that festival, they could easily do it. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And I think it lends itself to the space and the format, I guess, like you say of like, you know, the, the mixture of convention with festival I think is what helps sell it as unique.

And, uh, really helps foster a vibe there. Um, I also am, uh, you know, not just because I've had the opportunity to do a couple of panels, but I also like the inclusion of panels. You know, I've been to academic conferences where there are only panels and that can be boring as shit. But you know, in this case it's like things I give a fuck about, oh, I'd love to go hear this person, talk about whatever.

So it's. It's fun in that respect too of, you know, having some options on the table. Maybe I'm all sensory, overloaded out and I need a break from music, so I'm gonna go sit in a quiet space and listen to some people talk for a time. Yeah, 

JP: [00:26:00] it's, I, I totally agree. It's great. Yeah. I'll also obviously been to lots of academic conferences myself and mm-hmm.

Oh boy, those are hard.

Yeah, I guess I've signed up to keep going to those. I gotta, you know, but yeah, it's, it's really nice to like, have some intellectual energy at something like this. It's not mm-hmm. You know, it's not just not just artistic. So, yeah. I feel like Dark Force Asbe is a very complete or kind of well-rounded treatment of the human being.

You have the visceral body, the heat, the jumping around. You've got the music you have. Aesthetics, the, you know, visual delight of all of these, all of these crafts, all of this incredible creativity that's on display. Uh, very hard not to spend shit loads of money because you know, but we just now accept that we're probably gonna drop like 500 bucks on rings and bags and patches and whatever else, you know?

But yeah, then you, then you have these, [00:27:00] these panels where you can go actually do some thinking and then connect with people. Over intellectual ideas, you know, related to the goth subculture. 

Which, you know, is a stigmatized and often reviled subculture that we know is actually a really wonderful place.

That doesn't deserve the stigma that it gets, it gets, you know? Yeah. And so, um, if you're attached to that, I mean, it's not like, you know, what I'm in, uh, as a professor, you know, I'm not walking around telling people I'm in RAB adjunct. Some like industrial, goth, metal, punk, digital, hardcore thing. I mean like, I dunno what people's response is gonna be.

They're not gonna take it seriously and they're gonna mm-hmm. They're gonna attach all sorts of like, you know, negative stereotypes to making that sort of music. So it's really special to go to Dark Horse Fest and be like, like, absolutely a hundred percent be that person here. And also be an intellectual, also be a thinker.

Uh, also be an artist, right? So very complete. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Yeah. Agree. Good answer again. Well done, jb. But I, I'm all about the 

JP: good answer. 

Brian Prime: [00:28:00] Yeah. But I do have to agree that has been sort of my experience too, is that, you know, uh, in my sort of professional life, I, I'm not gonna mention my podcast all that much of like, oh, I did this radio show about whatever.

Um, nobody. Gives a shit about that, number one and number two, like, you know, I, it's kind of a personal thing, uh, too of like, ah, this is kind of who I am when I'm not here. Yeah. 

JP: Wow. Yeah. No, I think it's, uh, I think it's solely valid to separate those two. Mm-hmm. You know, so I think that like, just, let's just take a moment to also, uh, acknowledge the work in hiding a piece of yourself and that not everybody has to do that.

And, you know, um, and so, yeah, it's interesting that when you're, you have a, a podcast that, you know, that where you have bands like Ava Junk on or in a band like R Junk, it, it's like you spend a lot of time hiding yourself because you just know it's gonna be well, it, it feels vulnerable, to judge. Um. [00:29:00] And maybe I'm not always giving people the benefit of the doubt that they deserve. Maybe they're not gonna judge it. But I think it's, it's been judged. The sort of music that I make and have been into, it's been judged all my life. It's not mainstream. 

Yeah, it's marginal and misunderstood.

So, 

Brian Prime: yeah. Uh, that's what makes it shine. That's what makes it special, for sure. That's the selling point of rabbit junk, I think, is, uh, I, when I listen to the music myself, it does sort of speak to younger Brian of like the, the teenage version of myself that's like, ah, this is such an anthem, or such a relatable track.

So yeah, uh, well done in that regard. 

JP: Yeah, maybe I'm making ong for younger part of myself too. 

Brian Prime: Mm-hmm. 

JP: Which, you know, and that, and that's totally fine. There's that, younger versions of JP experienced so much, you know, marginalization in all sorts of ways. You know, um, younger JP was never, never on top, was never the winner, was never lauded [00:30:00] as anything other than a total weirdo, which is fair.

I, I am a total weirdo in good and bad ways. I mean, just like. Neurodivergent guy, I wish I'd understood that when I was a teenager. Mm-hmm. That would've saved me a lot of grief. But, you know, that, that discourse didn't exist yet, you know? Yeah. A positive version of that labeled didn't exist.

Mm-hmm. And so, I'm glad for my kids it does. Right. They were they're able to be, they were, you know, able to have more realistic expectations of themselves. So like Yeah. You know, like. I'm gonna be really bad at simple tasks and I'm gonna deep dive into complicated shit for 10 hours and mm-hmm.

You know. I'm gonna fidget during meetings. So that's just me. That's okay. Yeah. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Agree and sort of, I feel that does sort of tie into dark force vest a little bit because I, uh, uh, younger crowds have that the, I don't want to say a luxury, but you know, I guess, I suppose a little bit of precision of language.

Of being able to say like, ah, I've identified [00:31:00] this way. I operate and it has a name, and therefore, you know, once something has a name, it gives you some power over it because you can look it up and learn about it and read more about it. And, be able to tackle it better. 'cause Yeah. Similarly, a neurodivergent teenager who's like, oh, why am I not fitting with the puzzle?

What is wrong with me? And to become an adult now. And, uh, I'm glad that kids nowadays have the luxury of being like, oh, I am different. And that's okay because so many other people are, and it's a way to. For them to connect, I feel. And it's something that, uh, you and I didn't really have growing up, and that's mostly okay.

It would've been nice. But, you know, I think there's character to be gained in those struggles, I guess. 

JP: Yeah. Yeah. Look, this is the way things are meant to work. This is the whole point of the social and psychological sciences. They're meant to. Reveal the truth about human experience. It's meant to [00:32:00] be progressive.

Future generations should be the beneficiaries of all that research into how the human mind works. And so this is, this is, I think this is great. I'm, I'm glad that that younger folks have a non-shaming neurodivergent labels. So the thing was, is that I think there were lots of labels when I was a kid, but they were all attached to a tremendous amount of shame.

And so if you were to take on the label of A DHD or take on the label of autism, or take on the label of, you know, any sort of mental health diagnosis, what you were, you were taking on a label that essentially said you were inferior in some sort of way, right? That you weren't deserving of, like kind of a full human experience.

Well, who the fuck would take that label on? No, I look back, I was like, I was absolutely rejecting of those sorts of labels. I was, I was paranoid about being labeled because the minute I was labeled it meant that opportunities were gonna be cut off in some sort of way. What's different today?

I think when I, I open, I wanted to keep going in this direction as if the labels are no longer shaming labels. And so [00:33:00] there's an appreciation that, a different, you know, a differently structured brain is just actually really good at some things. And we also live in a world that wasn't built, designed for that differently structured brain.

And so, so this, that is what produces a lot of suffering and dislocation and alienation when you have that differently structured brain. But the differently structured brain is not pathological. It's not a sickness. Right. You know? And so, and I hope that where we're heading towards is, uh, is a world that is capacious enough.

All the different kinds of brains. No more hierarchy of brains. No more normal brain, abnormal brain, good brain or bad brain, right? No. But humanity is on the verge of facing some of its greatest challenges, and I think it needs every single brain. I don't think there's a spare brain. A matter if there's 9 billion of us.

These problems are so severe that we need to leverage [00:34:00] every ounce of talent that exists out there. So that means we gotta create a world that doesn't shut people down or marginalize or alienate people because they think a little bit differently. And it is, if the new generation is saying is being is able to take on labels of difference.

And feel good about that and some pride about that. It means we actually are going in the right direction. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, agree. 

JP: And God damn, I felt so pessimistic. That's the most positive thing I have said in months, years, maybe all year. That's the single most positive thing I've said all year. This has been the most negative year.

But obviously I don't really think it's all going in the wrong direction because we were just talking about dark force fast. We're just talking about younger folks, just talking about how they identify and we see good stuff. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, agree. Uh, I do think it is, uh, headed in a positive direction and, uh, yeah, I definitely like what you had to say about removing the sort of, uh, negative associations because I mean, you know, you and I growing up, it [00:35:00] was, uh, it didn't matter what was wrong with you, it didn't matter what your diagnosis was.

You were gonna be called a special subset of words. Regardless of what, whatever it was. And I think that that is, it's good to have those move away from that. 'Cause I wouldn't want people applying words to themselves of like, oh, I'm too shitty or too dumb or too stupid, or whatever the case may be, of talking themselves out of things.

Uh, 'cause I know that younger Brian talked himself outta stuff because I didn't think I could do it.

JP: Self-limiting. Right? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Definitely suffered from a self-limiting narrative and. And that was reinforced because you know, I had trouble operating a fucking cash register or something, or, you know, I had some experience where it seemed like everybody else just could pick this thing up.

And then for some reason it was really difficult for me and it was hard to believe that I was that I was intelligent at all. 

That's, but that's the gift that going back to school gave me, I think, was that [00:36:00] like I got into, uh. Academic, intellectual, philosophical environment. And I, I thrived and I realized, oh, maybe I've just been kind of in the wrong, wrong place.

Brian Prime: Yeah, absolutely. And I, at least for me, the going back to school even undiagnosed, A DHD. The structure and, being able to invest myself in something I was passionate about with structure, um, really like helped me succeed. And suddenly I'm like, oh, I'm not such a, a fuck up. Or Abu, you know, bundling, bumbling idiot, kind of a thing.

It's nice to find a thing that you can thrive in. So I'm, you know, in that respect, I'm certainly glad that you have, uh, the students that you have and yeah, that you're out there saying the words that you are. 

JP: Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. We have a long in common here. Yeah, that's right. And um, and yeah, I find that there's a definitely a neurodivergent pattern among gravitant bands.

I think this is a [00:37:00] real thing. I think it's often, that's why like when I meet rap junk fans, there's like a, a kinship almost right away. It's like, 'cause I've had a, like, so much connection with rap junk fans, but even like, you know, real superficial, you know, whatever, getting shots of the bar or something like that.

But, but there's something more going on there and I'll be curious about it. What is, it's not just that I make some sort of music and they like it, there's, that doesn't even seem like that's what's going on. It seems like that. The music has led us both to this encounter. And they just typically seem like people I could actually be like sincere friends with.

Brian Prime: Yeah, I would agree. And I, I feel like that's maybe, a byproduct of kind of the scene maybe of like this Yeah. Genre of music just attracts neurodivergent people or and I've also, you know, I introduced myself to a lot of people and talk to a lot of people. Um, a lot of service industry workers are big into this scene and maybe for, maybe there's some overlap there in.

Uh, what people are, do, [00:38:00] what people do, and who they are and what they're drawn to. Um, it would make for an interesting case study, I think, of like, you know, how much overlap and where do these people come from? How do they find their way to this thing? But yeah, 

JP: there's a real interesting, what is the service industry?

Bartenders and people working in restaurants, right? 

Brian Prime: Mm-hmm. 

JP: There certainly is a. There's an acute experience with power dynamics in a service industry. You got to deal with subordination a lot, right? You, um, and maybe, maybe this, I think that that's a theme in the go. Adjacent world, often got adjacent world is, is like, you know, a is a peculiar and difficult to describe feeling of subordination and like, and kind of alienation and being othered or something like that.[00:39:00] 

Brian Prime: Yeah. 

JP: And it usually has deep roots in someone's childhood. 

Brian Prime: Mm-hmm. 

JP: You know, have you ever, for instance, have you ever met someone who got into goth in their forties? And actually, you know what? Okay, I te I retract that question. Okay. Because I'm in a band with someone who, well, wait. So, you know, I'm in another band, Cortland Alley, I'm in with my friend Drew.

And we just, we um, we just put out a single recently called goodnight. It's like a cover of, now I'm forgetting the name of Counting Crows or something. Not a band. Not a band. I'm into a band. I've actually I actively disliked this band. Right? Okay. I, I think I still do. But then when my friend Drew was like, yo, seriously, listen to the lyrics.

Listen to the note of the song. This is like a, this is a got song waiting to happen. And he was right. I listen to it, I'm like, you're totally right. This is got as fuck, right? We should cover this and we should make it all gothy [00:40:00] industrial or something like that. And it kind of worked. So my question was, have you ever met someone who got into goth in their forties?

Something like that. And I was about to say no. You know, it's some sort of like childhood that goes way back in Drew's case, that's not his scene, I don't think. You know, he, he got more into that later on in life. So my question was bullshit. See my answer's a bit. A but my questions aren't always a 

Brian Prime: Yeah.

Uh, wonderful though. Yeah, wonderful answer. Question could use some revision. But that's a, yeah. There we go. 

JP: Yeah, no, I'll think about that. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, so it's, you know, it's, it's, I guess this is like the meme, like it's not a phase. Yeah, this is not a phase me. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. I mean, that said, I do think that there's no, there certainly is no time limit on anything.

Like people can discover, the thing changes their life at any, any age. Just if in case anybody out there is listening and they're like, 

JP: it's a badly premised question, nevermind. Yeah. Dear listeners, don't listen to JP when he says shit [00:41:00] like this. Don't. Full of shit. Yeah. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Uh, well I don't want to keep you too long.

Uh, so I will go ahead and hit you with the last question of the show. So what is something that you've been enjoying recently? And your answer can be anything, a book, a movie, a TV show, just what's something that you're just about. 

JP: Okay. Give me a few seconds. I've been absent of joy recently, so that's why I'm like stumbling a little bit on this question 'cause I.

Like, what's making life good right now? I mean, besides practical stuff, like what have I enjoying? You know, IM like, yeah, you seem pretty joyless. So I do feel, yeah, I'm a, I'm a little grim at the moment. You caught me a little bit of a grim time in my life. I'm just, yeah. But, um, you know, I watch a lot of tv, but I swear I'm just using TV to numb, you know, like, am I, am I really like.

Enjoying it, you know what I mean? I'm just, I'm falling asleep to tv. It's, it's got a background noise. I wanted to enjoy Alien [00:42:00] Earth more than I did. Uh, it's not a bad series, anything like that. I just, I, you know, I was like me, I don't know. Uh, because, you know, it, it alien and that, that vigers art, these, these are, these are important things to me, right?

So I was like, you know, but. So that was the first thing that came to mind. But then I was like, did I really enjoy it? Um, I'm, I'm playing a lot of Call of Duty war zone. Am I real? Am I enjoying that? You know, again, I also think that might just be a lot of kind of numbing passing of time. It is enjoyable to do well in that game, but also it's hard, that's a hard game.

People are the competitive game. And it's al there's always some asshole who's better than I am on the map. You know, there's lots, somebody who has better aim. I dunno, so I think, uh, I think what keeps bringing me back to the studio and making rap junk songs is because ultimately that's where I get the most pure joy.

And so, that's, so that's the same answer today [00:43:00] as it was 30 years ago. Sure. You know, I love making music. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, 

JP: so I'm really, really thankful that. I get to have a little career doing it. 'cause yeah, that's, that's a total blessing to enjoy something so much and then be able to make a little bit of money off of it.

Brian Prime: Yeah, for sure. Um, it's nice to have the passion project sort of pay off and enrich your life. It's, yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Um, well I'm, it took a moment but we did arrive at something joyful. Uh, that you've been, that you've been, been, I have to think about it. Yeah, perfect. I always answer the question myself.

Uh, the thing I've been enjoying recently is having boundaries standing up for yourself and being courageous enough at a point in your life to be the voice in the room that says. This is not okay, and I'm not all right with this or being treated this way or disrespected in some way. That's not an easy place to get to and some people.

Don't get there, perhaps ever. Uh, so I [00:44:00] think it's a thing that shouldn't be taken for granted of like, I have the luxury now of being brave enough to speak up for myself or, or speak up for what you want out of life. And, uh, yeah, I would encourage more people to try and do that. Like it doesn't feel good to set boundaries, but it's, there's a reward for doing so.

JP: I love that boundaries are super uncomfortable, right? So that's the, you know, that's the ticket price. You have to be willing to walk in that discomfort and time slows down when you're that uncomfortable. Boundaries should be calm and find the firm that's a, you know, and that sort of contrast is really uncomfortable.

You know? People mistake boundaries for ultimatums. Yes. Very different things. 

Brian Prime: Yes. 

JP: Right. Yeah. And you are absolutely right. It's really good to remind people that at the end [00:45:00] of a well placed boundary is the joy of loving yourself. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. 

JP: The completely, there is no replacement for that feeling.

So if you're willing to be uncomfortable enough. You know, loving yourself means being uncomfortable. I, I think that's the thing that stops us. It's a, you know, it's not true danger. Yeah. Right. Not like we're gonna die. It's just really, really, really, really uncomfortable. It makes our skin crawl and like, 

Brian Prime: yeah, our 

JP: brain comes up with all these reasons why we shouldn't have to lay down that boundary.

But without those boundaries, there is no self love. There is no actualization of yourself. I love that. 

Yeah, that's a way better answer than mine. 

Brian Prime: Thank you. I try, you know, I mean, every now and again I've, you know, hit people with like, just the like, oh, I like being alive or whatever bullshit I say, 

JP: and think for the reminder.

Think about boundaries as a, like, they're like, you have to keep track of your own boundaries. They actually often have to be reinforced, you know, like they, they, they require maintenance. Let's put it that way. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, absolutely. You 

JP: can't expect, you lay down a boundary and then it all [00:46:00] just works out, you know, something you gotta keep up.

But, you know, loving yourself is maintenance too. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, absolutely. And, um, the having boundaries is like, it, it gives you peace. Um, uh, like, oh, okay, I'm not going to let this thing happen to myself. So yeah, I think there's tremendous value in that. Even if it's, and it is worth being uncomfortable about.

'Cause it pays off. 

JP: Well, a hundred percent worth it. 

Brian Prime: Mm-hmm. 

JP: The discomfort is a small price to pay. It's really hard to see that in the midst of the discomfort it feels like. Mm-hmm. All you can see is discomfort when you're in it. Yeah. And you can't see on the other side of it, you know, discomfort is kind of monolithic.

But it's actually a, a small and passing and kind of trivial part of our lives. I mean, you look back on your life, how many times have you been uncomfortable? 

Brian Prime: Yeah, 

JP: probably thousands, tens of thousands of times. You're still here, you're, you're better for it probably, right? Yeah. So seek out discomfort because that's probably where you need to, that's where your boundaries have to emerge from, right?

Brian Prime: Yeah, agree. And you will look, you might have the presence of mind to be like, oh, [00:47:00] look at how far I've come. You're not going to sit and reflect on the times you spent being uncomfortable to get there. You're gonna be too focused on the result of, like, I did it, I made it. Alright that is it. Uh, this was a pleasure as always. You know, thank you so much for your time and, uh, please keep making rabbit junk. Uh, I think the world needs it and, uh, you probably do as well. And, uh. I definitely 

JP: do. I hope the world keeps needing a little bit of it. Yeah. Yeah. Always have time for you, Brian.

Thank you so much. 

Brian Prime: Cool. Uh, yeah, always a pleasure. Uh, looking forward to seeing you. See you for right? Yes, you will. I will, I don't know if you'll be there the whole time and if we already discussed like, uh, it's busy and things are happening in a million things. Um, I am doing Void Signal Live. I'm gonna be playing liner trivia, so I'm going to, uh, anybody who has the time to stop by, I'm gonna make them join a team and play some trivia with some randos.

So I did that last year, had Matt Hart and Eric Gottman, uh, [00:48:00] join teams and, uh, had just wonderful experience. Like, I had somebody come up to me the last day of the festival and be like, oh, I came to the festival alone. And you made me join a team and I hung out with those people the rest of the day and you know, we're gonna hang out today.

And they were so appreciative. And I was like, fuck yeah. This is awesome. Like, who gives a shit what I spent to get here and do this, like this was worth it.

JP: Absolutely. That's a, that's a and that's an awesome darkness or, uh, dark Horse Fest story. It's even if you show up alone. No nobody's gonna stay alone for three.

It's like we're all. Practice a little space, you're gonna find your people. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. You know? Yeah. Your people are here. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 

JP: Your people are there, so that's awesome. Okay. If you have time, I'm looking forward to seeing you. 

Brian Prime: I will. I'm terrible at 

JP: trivia. That's okay. I'm terrible at, uh, music related trivia, but I'm gonna show up just so I can get lots of answers wrong and make other people feel smart.

So. Excellent. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Wonderful. Alright. Have a great rest of your evening. I will be in touch. Take care. Alright man. Cheers. Okay, take easy. [00:49:00] Bye.