Where Governance and Excellence Converge

Dennis is a passionate and recognized national expert on nonprofit leadership and board governance with over four decades of experience. He founded and chaired DCM Associates Inc., from 2007 to 2024, a highly successful and nationally recognized executive search firm for nonprofit CEOs and C-Suite leaders. As the former president and chief executive officer of Somerset Medical Center and Foundation in New Jersey from 1999 to 2004, his reputation as a respected healthcare executive resulted in numerous honors including becoming the Chair of the Board of Trustees for the Center for Health Affairs, Inc. in Princeton, and served in a leadership capacity on many other nonprofit boards.

Dennis earned his Fellowship in the American College of Healthcare Executives – ACHE – was recognized by the Somerset County Business Partnership as the Business Leader of the Year, awarded by the Boy Scouts as Citizen of the Year, inducted into the Hall of Fame by St. Joseph Regional High School where he chaired their first ever capital campaign and became Chairman of the Board, and many other honors and awards from business trade associations.

Dennis obtained his undergraduate degree from Rutgers University graduating Phi Beta Kappa and master’s degree in public health administration from Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health. Passionate about leadership and governance, Dennis was the Founder of the Center for Excellence in Leadership, Governance and Philanthropy at Fairleigh Dickinson University, the largest private university in New Jersey.

Dennis is the author of five books on nonprofit organization success: A Guide to Achieving New Heights: The Four Pillars of Successful Nonprofit Leadership; The Nonprofit Board Therapist: A Guide to Unlocking Your Organization’s True Potential; The Power of Strategic Alignment: A Guide to Energizing Leadership and Maximizing Potential in Today’s Nonprofit Organizations; A Guide to Recruiting Your Next CEO: The Executive Search Handbook for Nonprofit Boards; and The Importance of Nonprofit Board Leadership: A Guide to Creating a Highly Successful Nonprofit Board. Dennis is also a regular columnist for many of America’s leading nonprofit business publication and blogs.

In his compelling autobiography, Moppin’ Floors to CEO: From Hopelessness and Failure to Happiness and Success, Dennis mixes together the right ingredients for an engaging, illuminating and inspiring, gut-honest recount of his highly eventful life; lots of engaging stories; and some valuable life lessons.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Eight Principles Voices. Conversations with those who are making a difference. I'm your host, Larry Johnson, founder of the Eight Principles. Now join me as I welcome this week's guest, as they invite us to come along on their journey. Hello, everyone. It's Larry Johnson, your host for Eight Principles Voices. And I'm really excited to get into this interview I'm looking forward today. Dennis C. Miller. And Dennis says something that I really like: board governance. People who know me know, okay, here we go. Another lecture about boards. No, we're going to find out some fun things today. As someone who is, you know, the well, look at us, the two eggheads here. We both don't have any hair, so we must know something. Okay. So I'm going to introduce Dennis. He's a very he's a longtime individual with this, a lot of a lot of experience. He's going to tell us a little bit about it. And then we're going to kind of go back and forth and maybe uncover some new nuggets that we hadn't learned before. So welcome, Dennis.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Larry, it's my pleasure to be here. Thank you very much. I'm happy to be a guest.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Now, you obviously have your own firm, um, but you didn't start that way. So, how did it all start for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:11

My career started in healthcare. I I was a graduate student at Columbia University School of Public Health back in when Eve Lincoln was present, I think. And um uh a mentor recommended me for a job as with a CFO at a medical center because then goes, You're smart, but you don't have any experience because I sold tennis rack and the ski equipment when I was an undergraduate. So anyway, I got involved in healthcare before you know it, um, became a chief financial officer, um, became a chief financial officer, became an executive vice president COO, and then years later became the president CEO of a major medical center. Um and and I was a so I was a 38-year-old CEO, 49-year-old CEO, and had the experience of obviously, amongst other things, was raising money. And and then after about 25 years in the healthcare field, Larry, I decided to uh step down and do something else. And without going on, it was a little divine intervention. I said I'm gonna both of my life to helping nonprofit organizations. I started a firm, Dennis C. Miller was as a corporation that was just me at the time, board governance, before you know it. And over 20 people, we did executive search all over the country for CEO C-suites. And then last year I kind of transitioned that. So I'm not doing search, and it's just a handful of us right now. And yeah, I do board and CEO leadership, coaching, consulting, evaluation, assessments, retreat facilitation, etc.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Okay. Well, you said something that really got my attention, and that is when you said the word divine intervention, oftentimes, um, you know, some of the best turns in our life are unexpected like that. And as I like to say, um uh life is what happens while you make your plans. And uh and he he has, you know, or the other one I like is man proposes, God disposes.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Um well, it's true. I I I'll just quickly, uh the last thing I did as the president of the medical center was I listened to a lot of patients cancer technically and listened to what they had to say. But then I'll go to one place for physical, I mean for you know, chemotherapy, doctor's office here, radiation therapy here. You know, we need one-stop shopping. So we got it in the biology board together. I brought in patients, I brought in board members, I brought in doctors and people from the community, and we built this beautiful, beautiful cancer center, all one-stop shopping, including uh yoga, meditation, fireplace, waterfalls, everything. And when that was finished, and I was looking for what's my next thing, I met with a woman from the American Cancer Society. And she said to me, you know, Dennis, how'd you build what a board? And how'd you build that team and how'd you raise all that money? And Larry, I spent about, I remember about an hour and a half in her office. And when I was finished, I went outside because her office was like in a home in the parking lot in the backyard, and then I woke them off, seriously. And I I it was divine intervention. I said, I'm gonna help nonprofit organizations succeed. And I've had a couple of the divine interventions in my life, and it's it's helped me play.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

So I'm I'm part of that spirit.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

I'm part of that spirit.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Well, we can certainly, I can certainly empathize with you. I mean, I've had twists and turns in my career, and uh even in base, you know, even in the in the fundraising arena. Um uh one thing I so now do you do you is there uh do you put I mean I I do you uh adhere to a particular style? I mean, are you coming out of the Drucker school, the policy governance school?

SPEAKER_02 4:51

No, no, I no, I'm just no uh uh 75 years of life learning, um uh high level of emotional intelligence, they tell people my my IQ is not that very high because my wife can beat me in jeopardy anytime she wants, um, unless it's sports or utilities. No, I I don't come from a particular school. I come from um, I mean, you might call it servant leadership, but I believe uh I believe you know leaders are people that um can inspire others, but make sure that everybody feels heard, listened to, uh, respected. Um, and I think that's how I was successful by treating people, and I won't go into all of it, but I I grew up in a very difficult upbringing. I had a difficult time as a kid. Um, and I had a dad that was unfortunately very abusive and emotionally traumatic. And I made sure that I was going to treat people the way I wanted to be treated. And I think when you treat people right, good things happen.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

So did you say did you say Severn leadership?

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Servant leadership.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Oh, servant leadership. Okay, because severn is a is a company, and I happen to know the principle there.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah, no, no, I just I just I believe in leadership.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Um servant leadership, yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

But but I just but I believe, you know, I don't have a philosophy. I mean, from Columbia, from Druxville. I just it's a philosophy of myself that's worked basically is in my I'll stop at this. The most important thing I think for leader today is to have a vision for your future of the organization. That's probably the most important thing you have and a plan to get there, and then have everybody work towards that. But I'll stop at that point right now. I'll stop.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Okay. All right. Um, so do you uh are you focused on for-profit, nonprofit, certain sizes of companies? Uh, what's your real niche that you enjoy?

SPEAKER_02 6:46

I made a decision. Um, I I I focus exclusively on nonprofit social impact organizations. Okay. I have in the past helped board members have a small company, but um, and I was a corporate executive for seven years too, and a publicly held company. But we and I deal exclusively with nonprofit organizations across the country in all 50 states. And that's what we deal with. Okay. Uh healthcare, addiction, children, families, make-a-wish, gross gas, uh, affordable housing, food security, things that impact people in a positive way. That's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

So, do you uh do you focus on a particular size in terms of budget, big, small?

SPEAKER_02 7:28

No, I I've had clients with a budget of 400,000. I've had a client with 400 million. So it no, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Well, here's what here's what I tell people, and I think you're going to agree with these because I hope you will. Um, I tell people that the size of your organization really has little to do with your success in fundraising. And I suspect that it's the same in good board governance because it's it's the way you look at the problem.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Yeah, that's right. You're right. No, I don't think science has to do with it. And um, you know, I I try not to turn anybody down, whether they can afford to pay me or not. Our fees are more than reasonable because they're just reasonable and we get hired by a lot of people. So it's not the price, but um necessarily I'll do a free consultation with someone if I have to, but uh, I just enjoy what I do, Larry, and um I enjoy it. Okay, all right. So I'm not ready to sit down yet and watch Days of Lives or what John Hospital with my wife.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

I'm not ready to now you now I know those programs, you know those programs. I suspect there are a lot of members of our audience that are like, what? What is he talking about? And of course, that was the days of the mid-afternoon soap opera. Yes, where you had where you had nothing to do but sip what would drink beer, sip of martini, you know, munch on chips, and watch soap operas.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

My wonderful wife of 45 years is a retired surgical nurse practitioner and uh uh watches the gentleman hospital days. Well, I've just been I can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

So that sounds like the seventh level of hell for me, Dennis. Give me a break. Oh, so uh I want you to reach back into your experience for a minute, and I want you to maybe pull up maybe one, maybe two really interesting and thought-provoking stories in your own experience that you can share with us. It can be anything, it can be a success, it could be a failure, but it's I'd be happy to I um it's not gonna be related to fundraising, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

But um that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

That's fine. This is where going.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

I I had kept a secret for 66 years. Um, I was uh um I wrote my autobiography. Um I by the way, I just finished writing my seventh book. Uh it's coming out soon. It's called What Every Nonprofit CEO Needs to Know, Colon, A Guide to Achieving Your Organization's True Potential Becoming Us.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Oh, that's superb.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Yeah, I kept a secret that um you know I was a very abused emotional child and didn't know it. But uh, you know, behavioral problems at grammar school. Um, I certainly had a tension deficit. Um, I didn't do academically in high school. Um, my claim to fame was being a varsity football player. Um, I didn't get into any college. And um make a long story short, I wrote my book, Moppin the Floors to CEO from Hope Resistance Failure to Happiness and Success. I've been a keynote speaker last year at the FBI Leadership Conference. A lot of it's I have a TED talk on my website, Denniscmiller.com, and my story is this. I was 20 years old, I self-admitted myself to a private psychiatric hospital because I was despondent, depressed, alone, despairing. A priest came to visit me from my mother's Irish Catholic parish. I was so impressed by the priest who unfortunately passed away with Father Don Gantley. He was an amazingly calm, calm demeanor man, and I hadn't met a calm man with a demeanor like his. I came out of the hospital, I was 21 years old, a few, maybe two or three months. Came out the same way and went in. And I went to the rectory and knocked on the door, and I cried for the first time, and he held my hand, listened. And I used to throw pebbles out the window at him. I was sitting in front of the church, wait for him to come home. And he eventually got me into a day hospital program, which is now called intensive outpatient IOPs. And um it it changed my life. I began to have believe in my self-worth. Uh, instead of always being viewed as a loser, I began to realize it was not what I was told. I I began to have a voracious appetite to read and to learn just before Kindle. Uh I always tell people my books are on Kindle. Um, and I I I I I devoured books at the library on religion, philosophy, men and great men and women of the world. I didn't I kept responding to do something, but I lived at home and make a long story. I was 24 years old. My father just threw me out of the house. Don't remember why, just threw me out. I stayed one night with a friend, I got a room in the YMCA. I got a job cleaning bathrooms at the local Mana Inn. I was 24 years old. I got a room in a boarding house and moved out of the YMCA. And then after a year and a half of cleaning bathrooms and living in the Y, I mean living in the boarding house, I had my real divine intervention. And I said, Dennis, if you don't get an education, you're not gonna get anywhere. And I said, How am I gonna get an education? I got rejected by every college I applied to, with the exception of the county college in the in the coast in New Jersey where I grew up. You know, you gotta accept it. And so I said, but how am I gonna, you know, write a letter? How am I gonna get into this college? I said, write a letter to every private or every college, public and state university in New Jersey, write a letter to the president. Tell him how badly you want to get educated. And I did. I got into every college in New Jersey, I chose Rutgers and graduating tops in my class. There you go. I graduated five beta capital and my wife's nickname for me is five when I do something stupid, which is quite often around the house or something like that. I don't know how to turn on your computer, or don't you know how to peel batana or something like that? And from there, I end up graduating. I went at the Columbia University School of Public Health. Before you know it, I went from Martin Thor as the CEO, just there.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Okay. All right. So so tell me about um, and you can keep the names out to protect the guilty. Uh, tell me about a client or an individual that you worked with that had a particular impact on your career or something you were able to do to help them.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah, I'm happy to do it. Anyway, Steve Matt. I spoke to talk to the CEO the other day. I was um honored to work with Make a Wish. And I started with Make a Wish of New Jersey, a fabulous CEO named Tommy Wagner wrote. Fabulous guy, fabulous guy. And he needed help with his board, and um I got to help him kind of met with the board. I now we have tools to do assessments online, but back then I did it by interviewing everybody.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Oh, I remember those days. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

I Larry, I just I remember um and when I first met Tom and Make Awish, they were like in a building that was now like an internal medicine office in in New Jersey, and they eventually built this beautiful castle. You gotta go see this online in Make-Awish, New Jersey, this castle, like Disneyland. And the impact they had on kids who had, you know, sort of life-threatening issues, that's had such a positive impact upon me. And so all the clients I began dealing with had to do with something to do with people. So whether it was uh, you know, behavior health care, uh, affordable housing, uh, food insecurity, uh, I do a lot of work with development disabilities. And and you see how the for the nonprofit sector, it's the glue that keeps our country's community together. It's the it's the glue. And and people of all fates have a positive impact upon people that have just made me at the end of the day feel like I've done my days work. I've done a good job.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

So and so what did you do for make a wish? What was your first uh assignment there?

SPEAKER_02 16:22

I did a I did a board assessment. Uh and and then and I remember I did a board assessment, I met with the board members because they, you know, most board members are very well meeting. Yeah, but there's very little training on about being a board. And for most times, but what do you mean? You know, I'm the president of the local bank. You're gonna train me to be on a board? What are you kidding me? You know, I I'll be at your meetings, I'll I'll make a contribution, I'll go to your gala, but you're gonna train me? I need training. You're like, yeah, you do. So one of the things that I suggested to them was, and it's part of my thing, is that besides the fiduciary responsibility of a board, which everybody understands, it's like make sure that you know your mission is is appropriate and the and you're following policy procedures that are appropriate. I've always you know became advisors. So, you know, let's let's first review and approve your strategic plan and your fundraising plan and maybe your business, whatever, review your plan. But at the end of the day, it's all in favor saying, aye, and the meeting's over. But what I suggested to them back then, which I still today, which is that there's another step I call the four stages of governance. So this founding board, and I met the founder, make it what you believe or not, years ago.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

But there's one of partnership when the board and the CEO form a true partnership where the board owns your vision as much as you do as a CEO, and you want as a board member, you want to achieve it as much as he or she does, and you work collaboratively with him to get it to you. Hey, I met this guy, you know, Larry Johnson last week. I want you to meet him, so they have a breakfast, invite him over. And so when boards have a partnership and feel a sense of ownership, I find it becomes a much more mature, successful, winning organization. And that's what I got with them on. And then from there, I got to meet the previous CEO, David Williams, who was a fabulous guy. I spoke at their conferences, they work in California, did work for other chapters and things like that. So that was that was a big thing for me.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

All right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

The other thing I did if I can, just one thing here, too, is I remember um this was over a dozen years ago earlier. So I I became approved by the Robert Johnson Foundation at the time, become a pool consultant at hire for their um for capacity building in in the jersey wildlife now. So that was one.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Now, you know, Robert Wood Johnson is like um the Murdoch Foundation here in Idaho. There is you're one of maybe a half a dozen foundations in the country that will make capacity building grants to a nonprofit. Uh, you know, that's one of the, you know, the irony of it, that's one of the best gifts. And yet there aren't that many organizations who either know about it or take them up on it.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Yeah, and so just though, so anyway, one of the clients that I got was called Makoa, M C O H A. It's called Mars County Organization for Hispanic Affairs. Now, I was pleased, I mean my wife is this back, she's Puerto Rico, she speaks Spanish filling. That's when she's talking on the phone. I know she's talking about me. And no, but one of the programs that they they had a need for, uh, besides legal immigration, back this is back 12 years ago in 2012, and I created for them something called the Center for Legal Immigration and Citizenship, which was amazing back then. But they had so many people that just did not know about medical care. So they would get go to a doctor and get a prescription for an antibiotic, and after three days they stopped taking because they felt better. So I said, We, you know, you you can't do that. So, but they didn't have nurses, they had so I went with my contacts to a top-flight hospital. It's called Morristown Medical Center. Now it's part of a land count system. Everybody's bought up some system, and they created a partnership with McCoa, and we created something called Health Education Young.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

So the nurses and from the hospital would come there and teach people that, yeah, if you get a prescription, but you want to take it all 10 days. So little things like that. But I mean, I remember McCoa and was a wonderful CEO at the time, ZMair. And I just loved helping him. And you know what I enjoyed Larry was that people I just kind of appreciated me, and it was just simple. I just enjoyed small things that were in their lives were big, but helping them become a strong organization. And I agree with you. I mean, why aren't there more capacity building brands? I don't know, but they're not. I mean, because most times, unfortunately, in the corporate giving world, in my experience, it's been more PR for the company who's giving than anything else, but that's another story over there.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yeah. Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Those are two of my those are the two things that I remember, you know, that were very impactful to me.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Okay. Um, well, I know that they'll they'll do these grants, but sometimes, well, they'll do it for fundraising, capacity building. And uh too often than not, instead of um um instead of uh you know doing the right planning and hiring someone that's gonna be a full time officer to get you off the ground, they'll spend it on technology or a grant writer or something that's very temporary, and then they don't know how to use it and they don't know how to grow into it. And I've seen that a lot.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yeah, that's true. So you get a donor system and then they don't how you're gonna use it?

unknown 21:59

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Oh, you know, we could talk about that. In the last few years, there have been so many of these new tech platforms.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yeah, and I'm not a tech guy. So I'm I'm like the worst. I tell people I'll never be the chairman of MIT because I mild information technology is not going to be in my company because I'm not a tech guy. So be careful. I can text you, I can email you, I can do a post on LinkedIn, but I'm not a tech guy.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Okay. Well, it's not that technology doesn't have its place. It does. But what I've what I've noticed in the last uh especially five years, but maybe I'm moving a little bit long that is these these platforms have become so sophisticated, they're making claims that I know are pretty tenuous. For instance, being able to tell you exactly who to ask for what, how much when, and where. Well, that's you know, people aren't rational in that sense, and that you can't predict it with that degree of accuracy. But the other thing that I think annoys me about that is that I think nonprofits, for the most part, are not very technically savvy, and they tend to be naive and they're susceptible to these sales pitches. That, well, I think they're buying Ferraris when they really need lawnmowers.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah, right, yes, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, they buy a lawnmower when they need a pair of scissors.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

That too. Oh, I like that. I like that. That's even better. Yeah, that's even better. Uh, because they think that's gonna solve their problem, which it doesn't. Um, and I'm sure you've seen this. Excuse me. Excuse me. But um being successful in fundraising, and I'm sure it is in governance, it's much more about mindset than anything else.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah, and if I can, um, I just what I talk to people about or teach people about or speak about at a conference is something like this. I first of all, it's amazing if you ask people, uh you know, we've done we do plenty of webinars and workshops, and we have a nonprofit uh four-part symposium coming up soon. But it was like, I said, Do you have any idea how much money is given in the US in a given year?

SPEAKER_00 24:19

And they go, Oh, almost 600 billion.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

No, yeah, and I they go like like five million, I go, and I go more, and they go like like 200 million? I go, and they go a bit, and I go, yeah, it's like 600 billion. But then again, I say, but you know where most of that comes from. And they go, yeah, corporations have found that. No, they know it's 30 per 20 percent, it's individuals and families. So here's what I here's what I did, Larry, without realizing I did it, that makes any sense. You know, when I took over my last hospital, uh you know, they told me it was making money, it was losing money. They told me patient satisfaction was good, it was not very good. I bought it press getting blah blah blah. And within two years, we became the top one percent in patient satisfaction in the United States. We doubled a million to 200 million. We built and we built a hundred million dollar expansion program. And the way I did that was without realizing it, was we're constantly communicating the success, the impact we're having in the community. And so when I tell people this, and I'm I'm this is true, I tell people, you know, there's five reasons that I know of why people give money. One, they give because they've been asked. Yes, I mean we all could pray to God, but they give asked. It's either a phone call, a letter, a social media post, something, but they've been asked. Two, they give to someone they trust and respect. Yes. Three, they give to one of their community, whether it's a local community or global, national community, they give it to some make something better. But there's two other reasons that are vital. And to the people give to success, not to not to distress. They do it. And the more you communicate the positive impact you are having in your community, what however you define it, and the more you can have the people that you're impacting even tell their story, the better off you will be. And then number two, with that people give to the needs of those you serve, not your organizational needs. So you can go and say we need a new theater, we need a new gym, we need a new school. It's fine. But it's much better if you talk about the needs of the kids if they're in that school. Yeah. And so I tell people all the time people give to success. And and those that are successful, you see them, whether it's a hospital, university, or nonprofit, they're tying their horn all over the place. And because people want to see return on their dollar.

unknown 26:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

And I think the biggest thing, if I made a contribution to our clients over the past 20 years, and you know, we're not a firm that you're hire to go out and raise money. We don't, we don't do campaigns, we're not. But I got a fabulous guy, Pat Collins and my team, who's got 30 years of experience, and we can help people get through the stuff, uh, what I call the tribe partnership. So the board, the CEO or executive director, and the lemon office that work together to partnership. And here's the other piece. So, yes, the no that people give to success. And just because the woman managed the wealthiest person on the top of the hill in your town, doesn't mean they're going to give to you if they don't know you.

unknown 27:34

No.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Yes. It's two things. It's ability, as you just mentioned, but it's also affinity. Is there an affinity for you? Uh it takes both, it takes both things.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

I just I was blessed to haven't met Betty Merck from the Merck Company. Um and I never, well, my they came, a few people came on our tour, our chief development officer, head of the foundation, what more was a guy named David Flood, who today is probably the best development officer in the United States. He's the president of the Internet Healthcare Foundation in Utah and in the region. He's the chief enterprise officer. And he does like 200 million a year. Some small stuff, small stuff.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Just small stuff, small stuff.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

But he brought a couple of influential women into the hospital to make meet with me, you know, way back when, 20 years ago. And we hit it off really well. And I'll never forget, you know, meeting Benny Mark. I mean, I also met, you know, Wilkett, the guy from the Johnson Johnson Company, the guy who owns the Jets, I met him. And but when people started to see the positive stuff we did, so my predecessor raised three million in a campaign, and we did 30. But here's what I here's something I also ask or mention to people. And I'm sure you have and your listeners have, you know, I've served on boards, I've been a board chair, etc. When you ask a board member, for the most part, I'm not everybody, but when you ask a board member to ask someone for money, it's a fear they have of it's even maybe unconscious. They just fear this rejection.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

It's personal.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

They feel it's personal. Like if you if I ask you for money and 10 bucks and you say, nah, and I reject it. But I say people, I don't want you, Larry, asking people for money. If I'm having a dollar or a 5K race and you want to ask for sponsor, that's fine. But here's what I'm gonna ask you to do. So I've got 10 board members or 15, let's say 10. At my age, I can do the math without a calculator, you know. And I ask you if you're willing to commit to me, helping us in my development office, if I'm the CEO or the president, help me cultivate at least three to four to five potential donors in a given year. Not 10, not 15, not a list of, not an Excel spreadsheet of 200, three to five. And it doesn't mean we're gonna go out and ask them, but you know, maybe bring them to a place, have a lunch, meeting with me, then whatever, you know, have a beer, have a drink, glass of wine. So I don't want my board to ask, ask, I don't want to ask people for asking for money. Help me call the relationship because if they're a good friend of yours or they they respect you, and you respect me to get to know us, then me or my development of can make the ask eventually, but eventually, not right on the bike. So that's a big piece here is it is the part of solicitation of that. And the other thing is this I I call, uh, and there's a lot of stuff, Larry, for free for these on our website, Denniscmiller.com, see us in Charles, is moving away from the tin cup theory, if I can talk about this for a second, to the investment theory.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

And when I was a little kid, and my mother occasionally, when they had money, would take me and my brothers uh to Radio City Music Hall, Christmas time to see the Christmas show, Rockefeller Center. And it was, if you haven't seen it, it's amazing. I mean, it's just gorgeous. It's it's it's a life-changing. But who was outside sitting outside the poor authority bus terminal was always this disheveled looking guy sitting on a cardboard box, looks disheveled like me, with a 10 cup selling pencils. And for most of us and people, they view fundraising as begging, selling pencils. Yes, but if you move away from the 10 cup theory and you think about the success we're having and the impact we're having, and you want your board to get involved in that, now you're asking people don't give me money, but will you invest in my success? So for every dollar you give me, or for every $10 you give me, or every thousand dollars you give me, here's the impact it's gonna have that makes a difference. And I think that's important. And then one last point I want to make because again, I don't want to forget at my age. I call Larry the 50% rule. So most board meetings are something like this, most of them. Okay, we're gonna call the meeting to order, approval the minutes of the last meeting. All favor say I want them.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Okay, John.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Um president of John give an update so uh I believe it. I had a client once he read he read his update that he handed out electronically uh two weeks before. And then finance here's a report, and then programs and facilities and and donors and something like that. And then anything else, the meetings called the door. I say to people, it's important to have a good, obviously, committee structure so that the good boards have a committee that does most of the work. Yes. It's like being employer, mostly employees do the work, not the owner. But ask a question, have a question prepared ahead of time. If not for every board meeting, maybe for every other board meeting, like this. So all the reports are done, and the meeting starts. I'm making us up six o'clock at night, and your committees are done at seven. Say, so okay, so Larry, let's assume you're the board chair and I'm the CEO. So whatever you think. Okay. So then we're gonna talk about what is the impact we're having in our community? How do we have what impact we're having? And Jane, what are you thinking? Have a discussion amongst your board about that. Or um, hey Jane, how do we measure Larry? How do we measure success here? How do we measure Dennis' success as the CEO? How do we measure our success as a board and have a discussion? But make sure that everybody is involved in the conversation. That you know this, there's always two people who never shut up, like me, and there's two people don't say anything.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

So you're even that out somehow.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah, Phil, and then so, but here's the one I love. You know, what's the value we bring to our community? And here's the other question I love this why are we worthy of a gift? And I'll never forget this. I won't, I'm not gonna go anywhere near the organization's name. But at a board meeting for client once, years ago, I asked the CEO, I said if the organization didn't exist, what would be the impact? And I expected this gentleman to say, you know, all kinds of things. And he said it wouldn't be any impact, someone else would take over on my so anyway. There's a lot of small little trickets of the world of fundraising philanthropy that could dramatically change an organization's success. So whether you're have a budget of $250,000 and you're in North Dakota, or $250 million and you're in Philadelphia, um things like knowing it's gonna get to success, have an impact upon people. That's why people give almost $600 million. And now there's a lot of requests and all that stuff, but that's what people do.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Well, and that's what I was gonna reinforce is that uh people want to invest in something they perceive as a success. Um they want to be successful themselves, so they want to invest in something that's sorry, Larry.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

But it's an associate of success.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

One thing I read recently uh in a in a biography I was reading, uh pretty noteworthy guy, and um he was in the in the nonprofit sector, and he said he always tried to get his board members to understand that when he released uh uh $8,500 for whatever. I mean, if he if if he would give that, um, that uh they would uh be thankful for it. Uh and they would do that. Uh what am I trying to say here? Um I've lost my train of thought, Dennis. This is going to be.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

I I'm gonna I'll think about that. I'm gonna come back because I do that myself. But here's something else I think I want people, listeners to think about. And we do a five-year analysis of a people's donor database, and you see this big bar bar graph goal, big bar graph goal, Black of all first-time donors every year, first-time donors.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Oh, yes. Renewals or lack thereof.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

The lack of thereof. You have, I'm gonna make this up. You have a hundred people that gave you a hundred dollars and you've done nothing with them at all. And then when you go out and ask them for a second gift the following year, it drops off to 20 because it's because you haven't done anything with them. And like you're it's like constantly looking for a new date once in a while, you gotta get married.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Well, well, the um the uh overall first year donor renewal rate is uh around 40 percent. And I say to people, um, so tell me how excuse me, how many businesses do you know that could stay in business, losing over half their customers every year? And people when you put it that way, people kind of go, What? But here's what I was gonna say before I forget it again. One thing that I that I read recently was when you have a board and they're successful, or you want to attract people who are successful, if you can give them the idea that your success in the organization is actually their success, they will be all over you. Give the credit to them, let them tell you how you know, show them how successful they were for doing this. I thought that is so clever. Oh my.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Larry, it's so important because the board member needs to feel that they're part of that success. You're right, it's not just all favor say hi. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Oh, favorite say hi. I love that, I love it, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Yeah, just it's one of those hi-high ball favor say hi, you know. And it's there's things that so I did things I realized years later without even knowledge it. So when I experienced a campaign at my last medical center, I didn't have to read any books about fundraising. I didn't go to any, did I know of AFP conferences or ADHP? No, I might have gone to one or two, but um but I just what I didn't, and I'll I'm gonna tell you this quick story. Please. What I did was I, you know, I really I've been in the corporate world for seven years after my first bent as running a medical center as an executive or top executive. And I missed the hospital medical world. This was my sense of family, since I didn't really grow up with any. And I got recruited and took on this job, and it was an hour from my house, and it was wonderful. I said, Oh. And again, the board and the search company told me how well it was doing. It was a nice community and a nice county. Um, and uh I said, great. And I got there and I said, I think I told you earlier on it was not doing well financially. I don't want to get the details, but even the board didn't know it. It's amazing. And what I did was get my you know all up my sleeves and turn this place around by you know doing the right thing, bringing the right people, and and eventually I remember this. Um I you know almost died twice of asthma, had a massive asthma attack. Uh oh, really? Yeah, when I was 51. Wow. And I went from my Bronckheim's coffee to you know, my wife had a call, and I wanted to come to the house and whatever. So at the time before I built this hundred million dollar expansion of private rooms, the only private rooms we had were the oncology floor. And and you think about it, you know, when you go to a hotel and you don't expect to have someone else in the room with you, you know. I mean, you think you're gonna do the room with the holiday end, it's gonna be by yourself or your family or the hilton, but not walking, there's be another couple there next door. So we have a lot of semi-breathlobs, you know, I don't know. So I never forget the nurse said, Mr. Miller, you know, there's a patient or husband, you know, do you want to see if we could talk with you? And I'm like, first of all, how do they know I'm here? That's number one. Number two, I don't feel good. I'm on 200 pregnose tablets, whatever. I'm like, yeah. But if I don't go, they'll complain. So I said, let me put my bathtub on and find out how bad the mashed potatoes were. That's what I figured I was gonna find out. And I walked over there and I walked into the room. I said hello to the wife who's the patient in the bed. I shook my you know, her husband's name. And I never forget this. He said, and he goes, Mr. Miller. He goes, and I was there like this the fifth year myself. He goes, I don't know what you did. But you turn this hospital around. Five years ago, I wanted to want to come here and die. Now you walk in here, it's amazing. You have a majority outside, you have people parking your car, admitting people with the food service, the nursing. It is amazing the positive response that we get here. It's amazing. I said, Thank you. And the key to success in philanthropy and fundraising to me is a couple of simple things. Do the best you can for those you serve, promote it, talk about the impact you're having and focus in about why the investment of a dollar or five dollars or a hundred dollars or a dollar, whatever the investment it can be, can make a difference. And reach out to people throughout your community to know that. And and and that's what you want your board for. That's what your job is as CEO and your development officer is to help you quarterback it. And I call that approach to try partnership of philanthropy, where there's it's three of you working together.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Quarterback it. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

But it's not, yeah. Anyway, that's what I believe in.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

That's I'm I'm well, you know, uh what I've been hearing, Dennis, is the way I was taught to do this. Um, there isn't much that changes, uh, it's pretty consistent, it's dealing with human nature. Um, you know, it it I just want to marinate in this for a minute because what we've been talking about is for lack of appearing redundant, it's what people call common sense. Because um it is taking from the commonality of people, putting it together into a mission that means something, appealing to people on the basis of their interest. And then from that comes comes something that you couldn't do otherwise. That's really what you're telling me.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Um yes, I am, Larry, but the and there's another basic thing too, which is this. You know, one of the things that our forum does that I do, and we do, you know, we do a lot of board training, retreat facilitation, and people love it. But there's a fear amongst a lot of executive directors, COs to bring someone else in who's knowledgeable to do board training, retreat facilitation, whatever. But on top of it, we do, we have tools, data c mill.com. We have CO evaluation tools, the self-evaluation tools, leadership tools, and board tools. And it's not like what do you mean you got to assess me? It's like we can help you identify your stress. And so you want to tell people hey, you should be congratulating yourself. You do this as well as anybody in the country. But there's two areas where you could probably do better. And one might be and I'll explain about board recruitment, and one maybe in raising money, and people, yeah. And so that's your job as running an organization is to bring in the expertise to help your team grow. And so when a board member comes on board, you know, they walk into the room and that's all in a fairly say, hi. And what you want them to do is be training the saying, talk about your success, the impact. That's, I mean, here's what happens. With your board member and you go into an organization, all you hear is about our financial needs. We're we're operating a deficit. We we can't make payroll. We can't build this. We are blinds that the driveways and now go everything we can't afford, it needs, needs, needs. It's not it's not a great place. But when you start hearing about little by little the positive impact that you had on this one kid's life, when I seen a kid walk through the doors of Makeowitch in New Jersey and seen the smile on his face coming from years of chemotherapy, it just changes your life. And for me, I had life-changing events, and I had the opportunity to run two major medical centers, which was delightful to me. I'm good in business, but I like people-centered things. And it's why I do what I do today with my team is just helping people become more successful, whether it's in governance and leadership and philanthropy. And that's what it comes to.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Government, governance, leadership, and fundraising. Well, let me just let me just take and draw that as we draw to a conclusion here. Governance, fundraising, and what was the third thing again? Leadership. Okay. All right. You know, I've I've thoroughly enjoyed this. I'm trying to, you know, you're you're like listening to an open fire plug sometimes, Dennis. There's so much coming at me. And you have these um uh these nuggets that just come out that I really, really like. But one thing I really like is that you have the seasons, the experience, the seasoning to be successful. And one thing that I've liked about what you said also is that we're talking about things that are common to all people. And that is so important. Uh, that this is not uh something that's restricted to this group or that group, or it's it's not rocket science. So now you just said something I want to go back to. You said you're on your seventh book, your seventh book is coming out.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Yeah, I always tell people this is Mrs. Fritz, my seventh grade English teacher, knew I wrote two sentences together, grammatically correct. She'd have a heart attack because I wasn't a good student. I have written seven books. My seventh book is going, it's been public it's being published next probably next week. So what's the title? It's called What Every Nonprofit CEO Needs to Know, Colin, a guide to achieving your organization's true potential. I will make sure I send you a free signed copy, but here's the five themes. All right. One, you need to have an inspirational vision statement, but measurable with metrics. Having a vision statement that we want every child to be healthy is nice. I do too. But how do you know if you're achieving it? So your vision statement needs to be not another mission statement. Okay, and but you have to have metrics. Number two, you need today contemporary competencies of leadership. So, yes, mission-driven person is very important, and a grant writer, but a visionary thinker, uh a high EQ, a collaborator, relationship builder, and someone who has an entrepreneurial spirit. Number three, an engaged and motivated board, we talked about, but someone who's been trained and we're you know good at that. Number four, clearly a uh a positive brand identity. So when you hear their name, um behavior health of Idaho, whatever it is, it you have a positive image of them. And then last but not least, you were able to create a successful culture philanthropy. And those five things are what's needed to achieve your true potential.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

Can I outline that's the example now? Well, so when will the book be available?

SPEAKER_02 48:33

It's it's coming out soon, and it's it's uh it's they're they're working on the cover right now, so become all right.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

And uh the title, one more time.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

What every nonprofit CEO needs to know, Colin, a guide to achieving your organization's true potential, and and I to achieve most of my potential, and I want to help others to achieve theirs, and that's what the book is about.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Okay, all right. Well, you know, ladies and gentlemen, I want you to be looking for this book when it comes out. Let's give it a month, maybe two. You know, when you're doing the cover, it's coming out soon. Oh, soon, okay, fine, all right, you know, next week. Next week, all right. Um, thank you, Dennis, very much for doing this.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Um, my pleasure. Thank you for the invitation. And uh one time to with my my podcast called Vision Leaders, and I'm gonna have you on as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

So thank you, thank you. I didn't do it for a quid pro quo, but I do appreciate it. So um everyone, you know, we've been having a delightful time getting to know one another. And of course, you know, what is it? Um good minds think alike, strong minds think alike.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

Bald heads think alike, bald heads alike.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

That too, that too. So I I want to thank Dennis again, and I want to thank you and my audience for taking some of your time to be with us today. Uh, next week we'll have another individual. Thank you for listening today. Join us for our next episode when I'll have another thought provoking leader as my guest. Guest comments and opinions are their own. The recording is copyright by the eight principles, all rights reserved.