Dr. Steve Groff, Founder and Chairman of Groff North America speaks about how he became one of the first companies to sell cannabis to the Federal government, and how it will benefit veterans and others as he works to promote the study and rescheduling of the plant.
Dr. Steve Groff, Founder and Chairman of Groff North America speaks about how he became one of the first companies to sell cannabis to the Federal government, and how it will benefit veterans and others as he works to promote the study and rescheduling of the plant.
Interestingly, psilocybin and THC are both very, very powerful molecules that have no lethal dose in humans. We've known this for years. He can't kill you. We've known that there are credible anecdotal stories of and some early research again for both THC and psilocybin can help reboot certain brain pathways. I think both these plants and both these molecules have tremendous potential to help with PTSD, depression, anxiety, smoking cessation, opioid addiction.
Charlie Malone:Welcome to Season Two of the policy vets podcast, engaging with leaders, scholars and strong voices to fill a void in support of Policy Development for America's veterans. With your host former Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Dr. David Shulkin. And the Executive Director of Policy beds, Louis Celli, today's guest Dr. Steve Groff founder and chairman at golf North America.
Louis Celli:Mr. Secretary, one of the advantages of doing a podcast as often as we do them is that we really get to stay on top of kind of breaking developments fairly quickly in the community.
Dr. David Shulkin:Yeah, I think that's true. When it comes to this issue that we're talking about today, medical cannabis, it's hard to understand exactly what's going on. Clearly, I think the states have moved very, very quickly, the federal government seems like is just being slowly pulled along. But still a big gap in the way that people can access medical cannabis with state policy versus federal policy. And frankly, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. If you're trying to get help for condition and you want to be treated with medical cannabis that you have to worry about where you live, not necessarily what the right thing to do is.
Louis Celli:And that being said, patients are pretty much left to you know, self diagnosis, self treatment, you know, the, the the information they find on the internet, or, you know, whoever's behind the counter at the whatever dispensary, or or cafe they visit, so it's really hard to tell, you know, that. So cannabis has been, has been touted as being a promising medication for relief for Crohn's disease and for epilepsy, seizures, for pain, pain management, a whole bunch of different things. And it's really hard for patients to know, what strain should they take? What's the dosage? How often should they take it? In what manner should they take it? Should they smoke it or eat it or a suppository or a tincture? You know, how do they take it? So it's, you know, I just think that the federal government has really left these patients out there by themselves. And it's, it's hard for them?
Dr. David Shulkin:Well, it's one of these things that, you know, the federal government can't believe that simply because they have it as a scheduled one that people aren't out there using it. And so, so really, I think, is a dereliction of responsibility to not allow this chemical substance to be studied in a research way to be able to answer those questions to, to allow veterans to be able to speak to their doctors freely about this when they're cared for in the VA. So there are a whole bunch of things that frankly, just need to change with this. I think that today we're going to talk to Dr. Groff, who is part of that change by being part of a new initiative where there are federally designated growth facilities so that compounds with good quality can be sold to federal researchers who can start moving forward with answering some of those questions.
Louis Celli:You know, it really makes it very difficult on the largest health care provider in the nation, the Department of Veterans Affairs who has so many different physicians that work there who have a variety of different backgrounds and experiences, and many of them are very interested in this topic, but they are, there's a gag order on them, you know, because the federal government finds that it's, you know, that it's, it's illegal to use. Many VA physicians struggle with this. And I don't mean to be telling you, no one knows better than you. You were really at the heart of this at a time of transition. As a matter of fact, you were one of the first secretaries or the first secretary, if I can think back correctly. That issued a memo, really telling doctors Hey, listen, you can't hold this against a patient who is behaving legally within their state when they come to you and ask you for medical advice or for you know, additional medical treatment you can't hold Cannabis use against them?
Dr. David Shulkin:Well, it listen, even the Secretary is very difficult to get a straight answer from the Department of Justice about what we were allowed to do and what we weren't. And so, you're right, I was pushing the envelope because I just did not feel that veterans were getting the right care. And frankly, our doctors were very confused. Remember, doctors in the VA, more than half the majority of our doctors practice at the VA, but also practice another location, typically, an academic medical center, where on the days of the week that they're outside the VA, they're allowed to talk to their patients and prescribe medical marijuana and, and participate in the whole continuum of services, where then the days that they're at the VA, all of a sudden, they have as you described this gag order, and that just isn't the right thing to do for patients. It's not the right thing to do for the people who work in the VA, they want to help their veterans as much as anyone and and knowing that they have information that they can't provide to their patients, their veteran patients is really not a good way to practice.
Louis Celli:Now, one of the things I think we're going to hear from Dr. Golf today is how this is really a watershed moment in this movement in this industry with cannabis and the federal government relaxing a little bit and starting to invite more growers in to produce a higher quality plant. This, let's think ahead, couldn't this open a real opportunity for the Department of Veterans Affairs when it comes to scientific research?
Dr. David Shulkin:Well, now I don't see any reason why the VA wouldn't lean heavily into this from a research perspective, that's the reason the VA is there to be able to step in where the private sector has not fully addressed the needs from either research or clinical perspective for veterans. And the big hold up in the VA for the researchers was that they couldn't legally obtain the cannabis in order to do the research. Now. Now, I think that this is becoming much easier.
Louis Celli:You know, one of the things that that I've advocated for in the past is to take a look at the infrastructure, say, of the DC VA Medical Center, right? And why hasn't VA looked into opening their own medical school, because there's such a shortage of medical specialties and physicians and they could home grow them. And then there'd be a, you know, a required period of service that they would serve, they could do this as well with a research facility, right, they could turn, you know, one of their one of their properties, the Air Act is looking at how many how many unused properties they may have, they could turn one into a high grade high end, really world class, medical facility that studies cannabis, and they would be world renowned for it.
Dr. David Shulkin:First of all, I think on the medical education side, you have to remember that VA trains, literally the majority of medical students and residents in the country through their academic affiliations. And I think that's been a program that has worked well. So having having the federal government go into establishing their own medical school. Not sure I would go that direction, working closer with the Department of Defense that actually, as you know, does have its own medical school, I think makes a lot of sense. But on the research facilities, I agree, I think that that this is an opportunity to have a center of excellence really not just restricted to cannabis, but all new discoveries related to helping veterans. And look, we're seeing a time right now where the President's announcing the reestablishment of the Cancer Moonshot calling for funding of a new agency called the Advanced projects research health agency or ARPA H. And, you know, doing this in within the Department of Veteran Affairs, I think makes a great deal of sense as well,
Louis Celli:really great point. They just funded ARPA H with what $6 billion to get them started. So they're, they're serious about this.
Dr. David Shulkin:Yeah, I think it's a request for funding. I don't think that the funding has been approved through Congress yet, but certainly, there's a big push for
Louis Celli:that. So and, you know, part of that, in addition to cancer could certainly be addressing the opioid epidemic and suicide prevention. You know, and I think that this is all related. Sure. So let's, let's get Dr. Groff in here and find out where this movement is going. Okay. Dr. Groff, welcome to the policy. That's podcast. Hey, thanks for taking time out to join us today.
Steve Groff:Great to be here. It's an honor.
Dr. David Shulkin:Dr. Graf. This is a really interesting but also complicated topic. Whenever you talk about cannabis for some They're issues that get political, whether it's vaccines and cannabis is no exception with all the different thoughts on this one. So I think it's good if you wouldn't mind starting out by telling us a little bit about your background. And what made you get involved and interested in the cannabis industry in the first place.
Steve Groff:Great. Again, thankful to be here. I'm a country boy, I grew up in Pennsylvania as a Mennonite farm boy and ultimately came, became an orthopedic spinal surgeon and spend most of my career as a clinician but also built a large health system here in the mid atlantic called OSS health. Throughout my normal clinical career, I saw some of the highs and lows of the existing healthcare and pharma regime and I saw some of the negatives in later my life, I decided to look at some of the what I think are better options out there and plant based medicines, including cannabis, and so really excited to be in this space and working on a unique level.
Dr. David Shulkin:So if I have that, right, you're, you're an orthopedic surgeon, trained to do surgery, and yet, you've focused on medicinal aspects of cannabis.
Steve Groff:I did, I had a great career, again, building an entire health system, privately owned hospital and clinical practice, we were the last position on hospital in the country to open over 10 years ago. Along the way, I, you know, a transfermate relational event that happened to me, I was struck by a bicycle, I was struck by a motorist on my bicycle 10 years ago, is riding a bicycle and hit a 45 miles an hour. So I was 46, I was incredibly healthy, I had no medical issues, took no medicines, and instantly I was in the trauma unit of my own hospital with a fractured neck and some other fractures. And I'm blessed to be alive and walking now and normal. But I went through some really difficult times on the other side, as a patient coming out of that. And so that was another factor in my life that that pushes,
Dr. David Shulkin:how does that accident and the difficult times which I assume included pretty severe pain? How does that connect you then to the cannabis industry?
Steve Groff:Well, I again, I went personally through some very difficult times coming out of that, and I didn't take a medicine my entire life until that tremendous accident. And I went through some personal challenges. I really saw it from the other side. And obviously one of the biggest issues that facing America, and that's is the horrible opioid crisis. And I became a practicing physician in the mid 90s. About the time that not only Purdue pharma brought out Oxycontin, but our our Medicare program decided to tell physicians to treat pain more aggressively. And so those two things together in my mind really kicked off what we see now is a devastating opioid crisis. And so I fully believe there are far better options out there. And I believe that we'll back in we'll see the cannabis is one of those options that once we study this better and know more about the the pharmacokinetics and things like that, that we're going to be able to treat patients including best with far better options.
Louis Celli:I'm really excited to have you on with us today. And I'm sure you're aware that this isn't our first podcast, you know that we've done on the topic of medical cannabis as a matter of fact, you know, that's how we met you. We had nurse Teresa Jackson on from AMVETS last year who who introduced us to you.
Steve Groff:I was fortunate to meet her recently. She's an incredible woman very inspiring and love from work and love to support it.
Dr. David Shulkin:Now, let's get right into the issues related to medical cannabis. And and I think that there's a lot of people who have studied the impacts of cannabis and the cannabinoid system in general. Your company has been selected to be one of the first four commercial growers in the nation as a federally licensed cannabis Growth Facility. And so I think people are used to seeing cannabis now in a number of different states and sort of facilities that are growing in a number of different states. But this is a new development for the federal government to have these facilities. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and what that means to the listener who is trying to understand what it is that you're doing, and we're excited
Steve Groff:to be in this position. For 50 years, the only federally legal cannabis cultivation took place at University of Mississippi as most of us are aware. Over the last 25 years the states individually have been very aggressive starting with California, and most recently, Mississippi and their 38 medical marijuana programs at the state level. None of those are federally legal. The oversight and regulations are extremely varied and vary from state to state. So we see This is a huge sea change of approach from the federal government to not only allow new cultivation but allow the study of new genetics, and truly open up the pathway to unleash the American science and academic world to truly study this in a much better way than it's existed for the last several decades. So we're honored to be in this position, we worked very hard over the last two years with the FDA and the DEA to receive this unprecedented suite of scheduling licenses. And now we're going to have research material and manufacturing on a new level that's never existed before that will be available to the research community, the manufacturing community and really the rest of the world. So,
Louis Celli:you know, this federal, this federal identification really shows the difference between what science can look like when it has federal oversight as opposed to what the states currently are doing and overseeing. You know, before we even spoke, I went to your website and one of the things that that most struck me that I was most impressed with was the layout of your website looks really more like a commercial agriculture web website, as opposed to, you know, a cannabis or even patient centered or focused website, it looks more like a scientific business to business type of website.
Steve Groff:So I come from obviously a long career in healthcare and working with scientists and working at the highest level on science. And so when I decided to enter the hemp and cannabis space, I wanted to really play at that same level, we we saw the need for focus on science and data. In cannabis. We know the wave is coming. We can't deny that cannabis is a massive movement across this country around the world. America has been behind countries like Israel and Canada and others where research is moving much more quickly. And so we also believe now that this new paradigm exists, we call it cannabis 2.0. In America, we believe that unleashing the incredible power of the American scientific community will be incredible and will help us catch up and really lead the world in research in this type of plant medicine.
Dr. David Shulkin:So Dr. Goff what when? Are you going to have the first product available? When When can people access it? And does this mean now that you have a facility like this, that the Department of Veteran Affairs is going to be able to get their cannabis from your facility or one of the other three facilities to be able to conduct research and to be able to start working with veterans on this?
Steve Groff:Absolutely. So we hit an historic milestone last week where we had cultivated a crop of marijuana in our facility over the last three months, first time in history outside Mississippi, and we completed a transaction with the federal government in where whereby we sold the first crop to the DEA and then bought it back for research and then manufacturing. So this unique paradigm requires the federal government to have control of the flower for a period of time. And it's consistent with the UN single convention, something that was not occurring over the last 40 or 50 years with Mississippi. So it is truly a new paradigm. The DEA leadership were on site last week at our facility and it was truly historic transaction. And so we have premium cannabis material now available, we'll continue to cultivate this was just our first crop. We were extremely pleased with our our chemistry of the plant with really strong THC levels, which we think are important for research. And but now that this products available, we completed this transaction, we've closed the loop on this new paradigm, we will now continue to cultivate and provide material for research and clinical study for the VT. Not only VA but many American universities and universities across the world. We have grant submissions with some of the most prestigious universities in America now to study the pharmacokinetics of THC for inhalation and oral ingestion as well. So, again, we see this new paradigm opening up and we're glad to be leading the way.
Dr. David Shulkin:So it sounds like that the applications are really all going to be research. There's not a plan for your facility to be able to provide cannabis for veterans that want to use it for clinical indications.
Steve Groff:Well, this is where we want to get the message out and I think it's important on this this podcast to hopefully share and part of the challenge for us is still that the the federal government considers a schedule one. We think that a schedule two status is more appropriate for cannabis flour, no different than the opium poppy or the cocoa leaf. So we think a next natural step would be scheduled To which would open up research tremendously, and then allow for us to manufacture specific formulations for groups like veterans and hospitals and drug companies. So we are supporting a rescheduling to schedule to and we think that, frankly, the paradigm that's been set up for us is really the beginning of rescheduling the schedule to which makes sense that the plant clearly has medical use. It has no lethal dose, we know these things, but we certainly need easier access to research and manufacturing.
Louis Celli:Yeah, I'd like to go back a second to the secretary earlier, asked you really what your personal story was that you shared with us on on how you get into this? And, you know, obviously, I think many of our listeners really see this as a cash cow, right? It's a it's a huge money making industry that that is, you know, it's going to be this way for a very long time. But I guess my question is, and we talked a little bit about this earlier in the pre interview, why you right? Why did the, with all of the federal growth facilities out there, there are hundreds of them at the state level, many of them do a spectacular job with oversight and inspections at the state level. But why? How did you get picked? There's only four licenses that have been granted nationwide, and you had not grown in the past?
Steve Groff:That's a great question. So I have been a physician for 30 years, I've been a DEA a Registrar for 30 years. Cannabis at the federal level is part of the Controlled Substances Act, a decades old paradigm that exists. And that needed to be followed to receive a controlled substance manufacturing license at the federal level. And so I was extremely careful in the past to avoid any issues with violating controlled substance act. And, frankly, investing or running a state marijuana program is in violation of the controlled substance act. So I'm a schedule one researcher, and approved by the FDA and the DEA to to schedule to study cannabis, looking at the antimicrobial aspects. And so when I received that initial schedule on research approval, I knew that that gave me a significant advantage in the final round. And we presented a very thorough complete package with a supporting team of scientists and cultivators. And so we were we were very pleased that we were selected.
Louis Celli:So just to be clear, the bottom line is that the other applicants that you know, that we've heard so much about, were disqualified from applying for this, because they manufactured cannabis prior to being given permission by the federal government, so they weren't even eligible to apply.
Steve Groff:I think that's true for some of the applicants, certainly not all of them. But to be clear, that was a in the final rule that came out from the federal government, it very clearly stated that if you had violated the control subset before you weren't going to be eligible. So I think that certainly applied to some of the other applicants. I think there were other reasons that I'm not aware of. But I'm just very pleased that we were selected. And it took two years of hard work and communication. And we're ready to move ahead and move this whole industry forward with tighter regulation and understanding of dosing and effects that are that are science based, and and proven in clinical studies.
Dr. David Shulkin:I just want to return a little bit to the impact of this on veterans. And if you're a veteran who's listening and trying to understand what the situation is where they may live in a state that has legalized medical cannabis, they may get their care in a VA in that state where the VA clinicians still are not allowed to offer medical cannabis. They're not allowed to participate in the authorization or prescription writing for cannabis. And to a veteran. This really who's just trying to get help for their condition. This is still a system that makes no sense where the federal government in the state really aren't coordinated on this. Do you see? Do you see the federal government's initiative to establish these growing facilities as an indication that they are going to try to catch up with where the states are?
Steve Groff:I do and again, I think they want to see it under a system of controls with with science and data that support safety and dosing and consistent regulations. And so there's the federal government has a lot of work to do to catch up but is as far as the veteran issue we were just discussing. I'm a licensed physician here in Pennsylvania. I remain licensed and I'm very active in certifying Pennsylvanians for the state medical marijuana program, not violating federal law. I simply certify they have a condition. I've done this for three years with several 1000 people and so as it clinician I've been just astonished at the improvement in people's lives, reducing the need for prescription pharmaceuticals. It's been an inspiring journey for me. And so I think that we need need to clearly address this and find a way where veterans can either be counseled as to counsel by their own doctors to the VA, or at least have access to a physician or physician group like mine, where they could be certified in a state program and have access to this medicine that can help change their life, save their life, get them away from opioids, I fully support that and that's part of our mission. And again, doing it in a way that's supported by science data and legal structure.
Louis Celli:But that really brings us to an excellent an excellent point and part of this conversation. Earlier you had sent ahead a graphic that I'm happy to, to share on our website so that our listeners can can look at it. And essentially, you called it the the cannabis spice rack. Can you tell us a little bit about you know, some of the chemical makeup of the cannabis plant and why research is so important here and you know, maybe in a way that non scientists like me can appreciate
Steve Groff:the cannabis plant is amazing and it has hundreds of molecules within it. And so I came up with an idea called the spice rack and it really helps it's a graphic that can help folks who are not science based or plant based understand a little bit you know, we look at THC and CBD is the the two molecules that people are most aware of they're in the media. And I think of those as salt and pepper if you will, and in the spice rack while the other rare minor cannabinoids that are present in lower concentrations, but could be very important. Those are sort of the other rare spices that you would have in a spice rack. So THC is the molecule that's psychoactive that can cause too much we'll certainly get you higher stone but in the correct level and in an appropriate level THC can be credibly incredibly helpful, along with CBD and hundreds of other minor cannabinoids within the plant. So I think it's important for folks to understand it's not just THC. From a medical standpoint, there are a number of molecules with the cap within the cannabis plant that we think that can be incredibly helpful.
Dr. David Shulkin:You know, I can't help but thinking about your your journey with this industry and watching the federal government change. And you're being part of that. We're hearing a lot about psychedelics now with veterans, particularly in the treatment of PTSD. And it seems like it's a very similar issue with the government being very restrictive on the use of psychedelics for research and for clinical implications. Do you think that this is a model that that you're working on now with cannabis that the government is going to repeat in the psychedelic industry?
Steve Groff:My personal feeling is, is yes. And obviously we're talking about another schedule one molecule psilocybin that comes from a number of natural mushrooms. And so interestingly, psilocybin and THC are both very, very powerful molecules that have no lethal dose in humans. We've known this for years, you can't kill you. We've known that there are incredible anecdotal stories of and some early research again for both THC and psilocybin that can help reboot certain brain pathways. I think both these plants and both these molecules have tremendous potential to help with PTSD, depression, anxiety, smoking cessation, opioid addiction. And so to be clear, we're pursuing a similar path with the federal government for the natural production of these mushrooms to study them further in a similar paradigm that we're doing in cannabis. And so it's a great question. And I'm equally bullish on both these platforms in helping change the paradigm of pharma in America. And I think that there's tremendous potential and we're very active in it. As well,
Louis Celli:one of the things that that has frustrated me for a long time and I've mentioned this on the podcast before is really the current legal limbo state that Canvas falls into at the moment, you know, the universal lack of medical specification in the prescription of the plant to a patient patients have no scientific direction whatsoever on things like dosage or or method of application or what type of strand or whether they need all the chemicals contained in the plant or just one or two that could be separated out to address a specific ailment. How might this change the basis of the federal government's ideology on how to study this? I mean, is this going to improve medicine Do you See this, as a federal government starting to move toward a more liberal attitude toward cannabis.
Steve Groff:I think it's the beginning of a scientific approach. The federal government does not want to legalize cannabis at the federal level until we know more about it. And as you've mentioned, I've watched these 1000s of people in my own clinical practice in Pennsylvania, improve their lives do incredibly well. But the biggest challenge for them is to go to a dispensary, and they have no idea what dose to take, they have no idea what product to take. And they'll pick a product and then go back in two weeks, and that won't be there anymore, it'll be gone. And so we've made wonderful strides in cannabis availability and some early research. But truly over the next five or 10 years, I believe companies like ourselves and others that are committed the science and data will help come up with the exact dosing with pharmacokinetics that all this work needs to be done, and it's going to be accelerated very quickly. Again, we're working with a number of universities right now on Grant submissions. There's a lot of extra funding coming from NIH and Nida. Now to study this, the government's aware of the wave that 38 states have this available already, they need to catch up quickly. And so I think will be an important part of bringing this new science and data and dosing, which is an important topic.
Dr. David Shulkin:It does sound Dr. Broth like this is really threshold time where we're we're gonna see some real advances in our knowledge and applications of cannabis that haven't happened for decades. And you're an important part of that and being able to make this available and be a resource for those who want to learn more about this. So we very much appreciate your time and spending time educating our listeners here on the policy bets podcast,
Steve Groff:it's been an honor, I look forward to working with you and
Louis Celli:so before we go, I just I want to give our listeners really a mental picture of what a regulated federal Growth Facility might look like, can you share a little bit you know, the the oversight, the inspections, the waiting a little you know, things like that, so that they know that it This isn't someone you know, this isn't something that's being, you know, haphazardly grown in a field, right? There's, there's a very, very scientific method to to producing an exact plant.
Steve Groff:Absolutely. We take this very seriously. We have a world class team. We have an 80,000 square foot facility like any other cannabis facility in America, we have high level security that's required by the DEA especially to be scheduled one. So we have security to begin with. Then we have a grow room that's more like an operating room, if you will, we have tightly controlled environmental factors lighting. We have a top notch cultivation team, we have testing equipment to study the plant to understand exact potency. So we have things like HPLC and GC Mass Spec, we in other words, high level analytical equipment. We've got extraction equipment, we use co2 extraction. So we have a team of again, great scientists and cultivators and executives and working together to really provide world class cannabis for for research and manufacturing.
Louis Celli:So this isn't the same cannabis one would have found, say at Woodstock.
Steve Groff:No, I don't think so. Obviously, it's evolved in over the last 20 or 30 years, again, led by California, I mean, the genetics have been have been tweaked if you will, I mean, five or 10% thc. From some of the early Mississippi marijuana from decades ago was thought to be normal. Now, plants are in the mid 20s, upper 20s, low 30s of THC content. So part of our mission is to provide real world marijuana some of the criticism over the last couple years from other researchers, they could never access real world marijuana. Well, now a company like us can bring in genetics from anywhere in the world to study it and provide cannabis in any form both flour, inhalable or edible products exactly as provided in other states. And so that story a real warm, I don't want marijuana that goes away, we're able to provide anything in any form, again for for the first time in decades. So really first time in history in America. So we're again, thankful to be in a position look forward to leading the way.
Louis Celli:And to be clear, you don't just necessarily grow high THC content. You can also grow low THC content for different applications.
Steve Groff:Absolutely. I am a firm believer that THC sea level does not need to be nearly as high as some of the products out there in the marketplace to provide medical benefit. I look at some of the products and dispensaries in America right now with 95% thc. That's like going to your neighborhood bar and asking for a drink and they give you a pint of green alcohol. I mean, like that we don't need to do that much THC and a dose. And so I think all these things will evolve. And I think we'll have consistent dosing for medical cannabis products that make sense for everybody, and most importantly, help people.
Louis Celli:Before we go in, I want to make sure that that we've covered anything that you would consider to be relevant and important for our listeners to hear, we always want to give our guests the last word, is there anything that that you'd like to touch on that we haven't covered yet?
Steve Groff:I think this was great. And I look forward to working with you to advance the cause for access to, for veterans for both this type of medicine and other plant medicines as we go forward. I think it's important to know that me personally, I'm a fan of the plant, I just want to see it taken to its top level, if you will, I think that it's I've seen it in my own clinical practice the improvement in 1000s of people's lives. I'm passionate about it. But also, I'm a scientist and a physician, and I want to do it right. And I think America can do it right. And we will now that, again, we've had this type of movement from the federal government. Companies like us are driven. We're passionate and we make things happen. And so we want to we want to help help people with the the best medicine and the safest pathway forward.
Louis Celli:Dr. Goff, thank you so much for joining us today. And we really appreciate your time.
Steve Groff:It's been an honor. And thank you.
Louis Celli:Thank you. And that's it. That really is all the time that we have for this week. Listen, join us next week. We're going to be speaking with Lisa Taylor and Carrie ward in the Veterans History Project out of the Library of Congress. This is an exciting program that you're going to want to hear more about. So we'll see you next week.
Charlie Malone:Thanks for listening to the policy bets podcast. For more information about projects and other podcasts. Go to policy. That's dot org.