Professor Renata Gomes joins Secretary Shulkin and Lou to discuss Bravo Victor, a UK-based group dedicated towards focusing the world’s best research scientists to improve the lives of the visually impaired and veterans. Professor Gomes is the Chief Scientific Officer at BRAVO VICTOR, Blind Veterans UK Group (https://www.bravovictor.org/)
Professor Renata Gomes joins Secretary Shulkin and Lou to discuss Bravo Victor, a UK-based group dedicated towards focusing the world’s best research scientists to improve the lives of the visually impaired and veterans. Professor Gomes is the Chief Scientific Officer at BRAVO VICTOR, Blind Veterans UK Group (https://www.bravovictor.org/)
The work we do and the research we do is for the very many and for the wider humanity. So it is that veterans are a force for good. They continue to serve not just their nation, but the wider humanity. They do so much.
Announcer:Welcome to the policy vets podcast, engaging with leaders, scholars and strong voices to fill a void in support of policy development for America's veterans. With your host former Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Dr. David shulkin. And the Executive Director of Policy vets Louis Celli, today's guest Professor Renata Gomez, Chief Scientific Officer at Bravo Victor, blind veterans UK group.
Louis Celli:Mr. Secretary, how much does the VA spend on Veterans Disability payments?
Dr. David Shulkin:Lou, it's been increasing so much. Sometimes it's even hard to follow what the actual number is. Because there's discretionary benefits and non discretionary but it's certainly well over $100 billion and growing right now.
Louis Celli:It's an amazing amount of money. You know, not sure if it's the most generous of all nations, but I knew I do know that the UK, for example, veterans benefits are paid through fundraising and nonprofit donations and not necessarily from the government.
Dr. David Shulkin:Yeah, I'm sure there is no other country that spends the amount of money on its veterans as the United States. In the United Kingdom, you know, Intel just recently did not have a specific agency or office dedicated to veterans. And, you know, they certainly are very supportive of their veterans, but they do things like poppy day where, where you see people out on the streets, raising money, and donating to be able to wear poppy to show their support for veterans, I think in the US. So many people know that the Department of Veterans Affairs is taxpayer supported.
Louis Celli:Yeah, you know, I think you're right. And I just I don't think that many us base veterans know that, you know, you know, how our government is established a system that really takes care of our former military members.
Dr. David Shulkin:Well, it's always been important throughout our history, but never as important after we went to a completely voluntary military where, you know, people who volunteer to serve our country have to know that when they come back, should they need our help, should they have, you know, received a disability or, or, you know, require assistance, that our government's going to be there for them.
Louis Celli:And what's interesting, too, is that, you know, it's uncommon for VSOs to collaborate very much with allied Veteran Service veterans organizations, and you know, that there's some polite partnerships, like the American Legion has a relationship with Canada, and their version of the Legion. But apart from that, you know, apart from an annual scholarship and an annual breakfast, there's really no work being done together.
Dr. David Shulkin:Yeah, I think there is a lot more that can and should be done. You know, it's so important that our allies feel supported by one another, and we share efforts. And so that's why when Prince Harry essentially brought the Invictus Games and brought our wounded warriors together from different countries, it was so powerful, and I was so pleased to participate in that because you could see the bonds between the various countries of people who had shared experience, and I think that we need to learn a lot more from that. And, you know, I, as Secretary participated in the five I conferences, and yet people said, that was a European vacation for me, you know, rather than understanding how important it was for the leader of the Department of Veteran Affairs, to be spending time with the leaders of other countries, departments of Veteran Affairs, and that lack of understanding of what we were doing was somewhat frustrating to me, because it's actually critical to our national security, that we maintain these types of relationships and support veterans around the world.
Louis Celli:You're absolutely right. And when, you know, when politics interferes with, you know, the good work that that we want to have done on behalf of our veterans. it's maddening. I mean, I've traveled professionally to many of our NATO countries have worked closely with their governments and military leadership. I've, I've never I mean, except for one time, but that's another story that we'll talk about in another podcast. I've never felt in any way that our joint service nations wouldn't be open to working collaboratively on these issues.
Dr. David Shulkin:Yeah, I think it's not I think the people who are doing the work that people who are serving them out totally understand why this is so important. I think it's the public who has not yet ever experienced that doesn't quite understand why this is why this is so important. And that's the importance of leaders to be able to explain why they're doing things. And, and so, you know, I believe that we need to be doing more of that I would often entertain delegations from other countries who would want to come and learn from the Department of Veteran Affairs, I saw that as part of our responsibility in leading the free world to understand and explain and share the research that we're doing and why it's so important to have a strong effort to dedicated the veterans and I learned a lot, you know, the Israelis, for example, are doing terrific work around post traumatic stress and, you know, have had far greater outcomes than many of the programs that we have in the United States. And we can be learning from them. And we can be teaching them as well.
Louis Celli:You couldn't be more right. As a matter of fact, the Israelis lead in a in a variety of different research areas. One of them is cannabis research, you know, they have no inhibitions whatsoever about studying the effects of cannabis on post traumatic stress and sleep disorders, and a variety of other health conditions. You know, and that's why I'm so excited about, you know, some of the folks that we've collected here at policy, that's Thompson Piri introduced to us introduced us to a project that the blind Veterans Association has been working on with their UK counterparts for nearly 10 years now. And, you know, joining together and research to combat ocular disease and blindness. And it really is a very exciting project.
Dr. David Shulkin:Yeah, I agree. We just don't hear enough about that. And that's one of the things why I'm excited about today's guest, because we're going to hear about work that's being done in the United Kingdom, but efforts to bring that work here and work with the blinded Veterans of America, the association so that we can begin to start those collaborations and in a much more significant way. And clearly, I think people will see the benefit to
Louis Celli:that, you know, what's really great is in the vacuum of us reaching out to other nations to try to partner with them, they have taken the step to reach out and try to partner with us and they're trying to stand up their research arm here in Washington, DC, and it's, you know, it's specifically medical research to help conquer disease that robs veterans of their vision, and a variety of other different ailments that they're facing.
Dr. David Shulkin:That's true lo and today we're going to hear from Dr. Renata Gomez, who is pretty accomplished. She has been a researcher for years she studied at Oxford. She's a research assistant at King's College, not a master's degree from the London School of Economics, and was recently a visiting lecturer at Northumbria University in the UK a pretty, pretty interesting and accomplished person.
Louis Celli:And not only that, she serves in the Royal Naval reserves, so she's you know, she's fighting to serve her brothers and sisters in uniform.
Dr. David Shulkin:Lou let's get her in here. We have a lot to talk about.
Louis Celli:Can't wait. Dr. Gomez, welcome to the policy. That's podcast.
Renata Gomes:Thank you. It's a pleasure to be part of it. And disclaimer is we already falling policy back so we starstruck and it's great to be part of it. Thank you.
Dr. David Shulkin:We're so glad that you're joining us today and we really are very appreciative of the work that you do for veterans both in the United Kingdom and the United States. So can you tell us a little bit about blind veterans United Kingdom and how that work is evolved into Bravo Victor?
Renata Gomes:Yeah, sure. So blind veterans UK used to be formerly known as and Dunstan's was created 1915 and that was to help blinded soldiers coming from the great wars. And so and that that has kind of it started. In 2017, blind veterans UK decided to have a research and innovation department. And that was our beginnings. Because we are we're growing so much. The blind veterans UK believes that we needed to be given space and freedom to really, really develop more research for the benefit of everybody. And Bravo Victor came out of it. The interesting part is that Bravo Victor is really not just about the blinded veterans in the UK is also about blinded veterans in the US. So blind veterans UK and the blinded Veterans Association in the US Literally brothers in arms in every way. So Bravo Victor is researching and trying to help every blinded veteran in the UK in the US. And you're
Louis Celli:not only their chief scientist, but you're actually still serving as a reservist, aren't you?
Renata Gomes:Yes. So actually, I've reservist at the Royal Navy in the UK, which is quite interesting. Because after five generations of my family being in the army, of course, I joined the Navy.
Dr. David Shulkin:That's funny. It's really interesting about this relationship between the military and veterans between different countries or allied nations, as I don't think many Americans really realize how important it is that when we enter situations, or we're even trying to defend our countries, that it's really the Allied relationships in the forces that make such a difference. And so when I was at VA, we spent a lot of time with the Five Eyes, the countries that have been in almost all conflicts together. And yet the veteran service organizations often don't have direct relationships between the UK and the US and Australia and New Zealand and Canada. But you do so can you tell us more about why you formed this partnership between blind veterans UK and the blinded Veterans Association here in the United States
Renata Gomes:show and you're absolutely right, the UK, US our Lightroom relationships are historical. For those who have deployed or may deploy in future, you will know that there's always some guy going around with T cubs, that's probably the direct dish troops. So you work together in theater, we found that it was only very natural that you do it when you're back home, especially as veterans, there is this belief that if we fight together, we heal together, we might as well research and innovate together. So blind veterans UK started in 1915, when the second world war came, unfortunately, there was more and more blinded soldiers coming through. And as we always took care of British veterans and allied troops, we held our hands up and said to the Americans, please help us out, we need more help, there's too many people coming through. And in 1945, the blended Veterans Association start set up and set up. So in a way, the, in terms of the blind veterans, there has been this very historical mutual relationship going, ever since the beginnings of these institutions. Back in 20 2012, there was the some of you may know, Thomas and Perry, who is a blinded veteran in the US, met our current president of blind veterans, UK, and they thought, you know, we definitely fight together, deploy together, heal together, let's really cement our this relationship. And one of the most simple yet visionary project started and this was project Gemini, which is still going. And every year there is this exchange of veterans, for one week over in the UK, one week over in the US. And when I first joined in Project Gemini, I thought, we now need to do research together. And this is the beauty of it. The beauty of it, project Gemini also involves Canada, South Africa, and is expanding. So these projects are really, really beneficial. And let's be honest, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them. I gotta
Louis Celli:tell you, I'm astounded at the the volume of research that your organization has produced. Not only is it all peer reviewed, but it's predominantly private funded. So can you tell our listeners a little bit about some of the research projects that your organization has studied?
Renata Gomes:Yeah, so we do, like you said, a lot of research. So currently, we got something like 414 major research programs ongoing, and why we have so much going on is really because we put our veteran at the center of everything. And this is difficult to do holistic multidisciplinary research, because we have to make so many disciplines together. And that's why we have to do a lot of research is to perfect and understand that the unmet need for the veterans. So for example, we run in a way that we have three major research departments so we have biomedical Clinical Research, social and welfare research and innovations, and everything is connected and constantly talking to each other. So our research ranges from, for example, we have 100% of our blinded veterans and disabled veterans claim saying to us, we have terrible sleep, we can't sleep is affecting us and our families and everything we do. So we started researching that and running clinical trials to find ways met coping mechanisms, which some of it is as simple as, as behavioral interventions, in some cases in requires medication. So we do anything ranging from that, to getting involved in technology trials, autonomous vehicles. So our research is we've got a large portfolio, but it's all about the veterans, that so it's literally my world revolves around a veteran. And that's what we try to do really,
Dr. David Shulkin:there is a really interesting program between the United States and United Kingdom where it's called the joint ocular trauma Task Force group. Can you tell us about what that group is working on?
Renata Gomes:Absolutely. And I have to say, if we are going to blame anyone for this amazing piece of work, we should start with a blinded Veterans Association of the US. So back in the day, a President Obama and Prime Minister David Cameron decided to formalize a relationship between the US and the UK. And there was really to understand how we could share knowledge and practices to better help our serving personnel but also our veterans. So a number of task groups work were set up, for example, one that's very well known is in terms of orthopedics and lower limb surgery. And there was sensory loss and sight loss was slightly forgotten. But the blinded Veterans Association pick that up in 2019. And ever since we established this very unique partnership, which involves department of the fence in the US Veterans Affairs in the US stakeholder representation from blind veterans in the US, and is equivalent in the UK side. And through this ocular trauma task group, we are focusing on how can we prevent soldiers from losing their senses? How can for those who unfortunately have lost their senses, specifically sight? How can we find solutions? Because every we want to make sure that people live their life to the fullest. And for very many people living their life to the fullest is to remain in service as much for as long as possible. And then a lot of these issues, they are avoidable. And it is a group that's very active, we need to every six weeks. We really a bunch of nerds in the room that just solve problems. We try to solve problems. So
Louis Celli:I mean, there's a lot going on here. Blind veterans, UK blind veterans, us you guys have been collaborating for nearly a decade now. So what's what's the future of Bravo Victor?
Renata Gomes:So the future of Bravo Victor is really to make sure that we focus research to help veterans. We as Bravo Victor, we have a very well established research team in England. So we our headquarters in London, but we do spread everywhere researching here and there. The future is we would like to have rather Victor with a US presence. Because the US link is so important for us. And we would you know timezone apart, logistically will be wonderful for us to have a US presence. But also, a key aspect of our research is that our researchers are in touch with the participants with the veterans with the serving personnel. So they always put faces to names. And we would like to be able to do the same in the US. So yes, you were hearing us we want to have our section some labs in the US.
Dr. David Shulkin:One of the big differences between the US and the UK is I don't believe the UK has as large or as organized a government effort like the Department of Veteran Affairs and when I when I was visiting 10 Downing Street. And speaking about how you do this, the United Kingdom, your defense minister is also your head of Veteran Affairs. Do you do you find that it's, you're able to get as much done and get the type of support and research that you need without a specific Department of Veteran Affairs, the way that we have in the United States as a separate cabinet agency,
Renata Gomes:you are right, there are difficulties. And so what actually happened is in late 2019, this actually happened when we were in Washington, DC, because some of the topics and the reasons you just bought up the UK government created in late 2019, a office Board of Veteran Affairs, what we call the VA, it is started literally December 2019. So it is as it is early stages. But one of the reasons was exactly to overcome some of these with your, you're talking about, for example, in the US, we get a lot of traction. And we move fairly quickly, because you have a very precious system, which is the Veteran Affairs, the VA, you have databases, you have centralized and specialist efforts. Of course, everything has its hurdles, but we are not, we are not we're not worried about the hurdles. And the UK, there is an attempt to create a system that will fast track anything to do with veterans, mindful that possibly the Office of Veteran Affairs only started a few decades after the VA. But there is an opportunity there. And thank you for those conversations, you had the 10 Downing Street, something has happened,
Louis Celli:I always find that amazing the difference between US policy and you know, some of our allies policies. And I mean, we just have a massive, massive VA infrastructure that focuses on a variety of different things, as you know, to include medicine and research. And, you know, one thing that I think is so important, is that the you know, the research that we do the research that you do, I mean it's human medicine, it's not veteran medicine specifically, but it's it's human medicine, and rehabilitative solutions that will benefit humanity as a whole. Isn't that right?
Renata Gomes:Yeah. So actually, what happens is someone very famous, I'm not saying Churchill, but once said, and I'll probably get the quote wrong, that we never own so much to so few. So our approach is, we have this cohort of veterans who are a truly dedicated, loyal population. And we are able to do high quality, focused research with this group. And because it is of such quality, we then are able to learn so many lessons, like for example, in our case, working with blinded and disabled veterans, and we learn so much in terms of sight loss. And then that is applicable to everyone that is in low vision or may have sight loss. So they're not necessarily necessarily just veterans. So the work we do, and the research we do is for the very many, and for the wider humanity. So it is that veterans are a force for good, I may be biased that there is so much and I really want to say thank you to all of those who were involved in with that with us, especially the veterans because they continue to serve not just their nation, but the wider humanity. They they do so much,
Dr. David Shulkin:Dr. Gomez, is there any particular research program or research protocols that you're particularly excited about that you think, are coming down the road that people should be paying attention to?
Renata Gomes:So I'm excited about all of the research, we do that focus there is. We do a lot of circadian. So sleep research, and is really helping veterans. Like for example, we started doing it because all of our veterans were complaining about clinical issues in that area. When we started doing clinical assessment, we found out that out of those who were complaining of it, 80% of them had a clinical problem. So it wasn't just those things of I'm self reporting something because I'm overreacting. So we started doing these clinical trials. And as we were focusing on the while applying interventions to specifically help the disabled veterans, we found that we are in the process of being able to repurpose some shelf drugs, which may help to correct this circadian disruption in something as little as two hours. And next thing we know, we've got airlines wanting to understand more, we've got the military who deploys people, and even myself who suffers from jet lag when I'm over on the side of the pond, wanting to know more and, and use those technologies. And that's the view so everybody, but we also do a lot of work where actually, for example, well, being a veterans is really important. And well being is a multi dimensional approach. So it's not just about your physical health, it's also about your mental health is about your community. And on this actually, we started working from some of the work that's been done in the us try to translate to Europe and UK. And so there is so much interesting work, I just, I could go on for hours. And that's possible, you know, not not not the right answer. Right now, I guess.
Louis Celli:What I love about your organization is Oh, even though the foundation has its roots in blind veterans of the UK and blind Veterans of America, you haven't pigeonholed your your research into that, that only addresses sight and vision problems. I mean, mental well being sleep hygiene, a number of other physical, mental, physical and mental research projects that that you guys have taken on. So can you tell us a little bit about how you settle on particular projects? How do you how do you pick projects that are worthy of the investment,
Renata Gomes:like I mentioned before, the veteran is at the center of everything we do. And we do extensive stakeholder consultation, so we constantly talking to our veterans, and even in our board, our board of directors does have a blinded blind veteran in there. So we try to find what the biggest problems are. And what we tend to find is, these issues are all connected. So a veteran that has sight loss doesn't just have sight loss, there is something going on here. And then there is other issues within mobility as well. So we go through this very systematic approach of understanding the issue. And then classifying it, of course, I can tell you, I have enough work for 100 staff that we have to prioritize. And well, for now, in future you never know, in receipt of some outstanding funding, and that we'll be able to tackle all these areas. But it is really again, veteran focused. And then as researchers, we keep seeing that as we are trying to solve a problem with eyes that technology could be really good actually, for infused with lower limbs because of blood vessels. So we were searching and trying to translate always, in the same time, not an easy job that most definitely interesting and challenging.
Dr. David Shulkin:For Dr. Gomez, you're doing really important work. And again, we thank you for everything that you're doing. And really appreciate the time you spend with us today. Is there anything that you want to share about your efforts to come to the United States that you think our listeners could be helpful with?
Renata Gomes:Sure. I mean, we are. So we are Bravo, Victor. So if you ever hear the name, it will be great if you don't, if you know about us, and if you can spread the word, that's fantastic. And we would like to have a physical presence in the US in the near future and have researchers getting in touch with you guys to develop more research, but also collaboration, we are highly collaborative, we believe in working together because together we are stronger. So and I don't claim to have all the answers and we don't don't claim to have invented everything ourselves. And so just keep an eye out for us and get in touch. We are a an open system. We have a website and all sorts of panels. And we look forward to interacting at more.
Louis Celli:Professor Gomez we would love to to follow up with you and you know learn a little bit more about some of the specific programs you're working on because I understand that I mean the groundbreaking research that you're doing is pretty exciting. So you know with your permission, we'd like to follow up, you know later date on on a couple of these research projects.
Renata Gomes:It will be an honor for us. And we really hope we can communicate the research in a way that is understandable. But also, hopefully you can speak to some of our veterans of the lived experience of the whole process.
Louis Celli:And do you guys have a website that you that you've established yet?
Renata Gomes:Yes, we have you. It's very straightforward. You can find us at Robbo victor.org.
Dr. David Shulkin:Great. Well, thank you again, really appreciate your time with us today.
Renata Gomes:Thank you very much.
Louis Celli:Well, that is all the time that we have for this week. If you enjoyed this interview, stick around because you're going to be hearing a lot more from Bravo Victor and the some of the good work that they're going to be doing here in Washington DC. Let's uh, next week, we're going to be talking about the strategic value of Taiwan and what it means for our international security in the Pacific Rim. Joining us next week is Vincent Chow. He recently served as a director for the political division of the Taipei economic and cultural representative office of the United States. That's just a long winded and fancy way of saying the Embassy of Taiwan here in the United States. And next week, we'll learn a little bit more and talk about why we don't call it that. So join us next week.
Announcer:Thanks for listening to the policy. That's podcasts. For more information about projects and other podcasts go to policy vets.org