Veterans Day Reflections

Secretary Shulkin and Lou Celli discuss Veterans Day and reflect on the podcast's many guests, as well as the reaction they've received.

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Charlie Malone: 0:01

Welcome to the policy beds podcast, engaging with leaders, scholars and strong voices to fill a void in support of Policy Development for America's veterans. With your host, former Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Dr. David Shulkin, and the Executive Director of Policy beds, Louis Celli.

Louis Celli: 0:21

Mr. Secretary, welcome back.

Dr. David Shulkin: 0:23

Hey, Lou, thanks. I missed being away for a couple weeks. But you know, I always say that the job of a good person who's in a role is to make sure that they're easily replaceable by even better people. So I know that Sherman Gilliam's and Charlie Malone did such a great job on the podcast, I wasn't sure that you were going to have me come back.

Louis Celli: 0:46

Now, that's very humble of you. But let me tell you, you are not easily replaced. And both of them, I think, campaigned for, you know, an acting role, and I wouldn't let them have it. So just to let you know, well, loyalty is

Dr. David Shulkin: 1:01

always your thing. That's great. So it's, it's good to be back, especially on this day, the day after Veterans Day, what a amazing day that? You know, I don't think there is a more special day of the year,

Louis Celli: 1:17

you know, this Veterans Day is a bit of a transition, right? We're coming out of COVID, you know, some of the previous celebrations were were far more muted. But we're starting to come out now. And even though you know, there are still protections in place, like, you know, everybody had to get COVID tested before they were able to walk into the amphitheater, and some of the activities aren't as robust as they used to be, it's really, really good to get back together. And to celebrate, you know, really just the the veteran community. Yeah, I

Dr. David Shulkin: 1:48

think that's been one of the really hard things, you know, we talk about, particularly after going through the trauma of the Afghanistan withdrawal for so many people. The social isolation of not being able to be part of community and getting together just compounded that. And I have to say that it was last year, not being able to have a traditional Veterans Day event at Arlington Cemetery was something that we all miss. So I was really pleased to be there yesterday in Arlington, with the President with all of the leaders in the veteran community once again, being able to be there to pay our respects.

Louis Celli: 2:32

No, that's right. And, you know, the President actually went back to a tradition that VSOs used to enjoy and invited some of the leaders of the veteran service organizations to the White House before the event, which real classy move was was really nice. It's nice that they're getting back into those types of traditions. Yeah,

Dr. David Shulkin: 2:50

I think tradition is important. And when it's not followed, I think that sometimes people can interpret that. Maybe not as intended. But I remember when I was Secretary, the President Trump's skipped the breakfast one year, I don't think it was actually intentional. I think it was just not understanding the tradition that had been there. And I quickly had to put together a breakfast at the Chamber of Commerce of which the veteran community was very appreciative of, but I wasn't the president. And it wasn't the White House.

Louis Celli: 3:26

And so yeah, I remember that. As a matter of fact, I remember. He sent a video. Yeah, the video. So I think you had a really wonderful idea about this podcast, and really just giving our listeners a chance to catch up on on how we got here. And, you know, maybe a little vision on where we're going. I mean, we're still we're still a brand new startup.

Dr. David Shulkin: 3:49

Yeah, yeah. Listen, we started policy bets, because we felt that there was a void, there was a void of people and a place where you could go to get the experience of people being in leadership positions who have who have been leaders in the veteran community, so that we don't lose that sense of history and that knowledge. And I think, quite frankly, we've accomplished that we now have, I think about 100 scholars and advisors and fellows, these are people that have been there done it. And if you need some input, if you're a member of Congress, if you're trying to create policy from the business community that is helpful to veterans, you know, where what better place to go then to these 100 people, and there's no business model here. As you know, we don't charge money. We don't. We don't do anything like that. We're here really as

Louis Celli: 4:50

a public service. You know, to your point, what's what's really, what's really been very prideful for me is when you send them that invitation and explain what policy that's is really the outpouring of support. And you know that the pride with which they accept these appointments. It's enjoyable to watch. And I'm really honored to be a part of it.

Dr. David Shulkin: 5:12

Well, I think it makes sense to me, I know that anybody who has served their country, anybody who has done public service has innately inside them, the desire to give back that there's something that they're part of this larger than them. And that never goes away. So just because you served and then you left office, you always retain that ability. And if somebody asks for your help, on behalf of other people, particularly veterans, helping other veterans, it's rare to me that somebody says

Louis Celli: 5:46

no, you know, you're absolutely right. And I think what, with this short period of time, you know, what we've been able to accomplish is to show the community that we're doing exactly what it is we said, we're doing, we're not lobbyists, we're not activists, we're not even advocates, we're, we're really just trying to collect and coalesce good data and information and makers and advocates who need that information can use it to make informed decisions.

Dr. David Shulkin: 6:14

I think that's the word that I was going to use, which is really informing people. And so many people have commented on the appreciation of our podcasts, I think we've done 35 of them in less than, you know, seven months or so, which has been really a lot of workload, exhausting. Exhausting, might be the right word. But But frankly, there are so many issues that we feel that people need to have visibility on that, that that people that care about veterans want to know about, whether it's things related to the value of service dogs, or medical marijuana, to really important issues, like burn pits, or national security issues like Taiwan, and the importance of keeping our allies coalesced around important democratic values.

Louis Celli: 7:12

That's exactly right. And I was really surprised, I'm still surprised to be honest with you, you know, as we start to get back into the community, and, and we're, you know, in DC, there's always some kind of event that you're invited to, you know, some sort of social, where, you know, you're really you're expected to just socialize and become back part of the community and reconnect. And the number of times that people have tagged me on the shirt sleeve and said, Man, I love the podcast, I always blown away, I'm always caught off guard, because you never really know who's listening. But it turns out that our, our listenership is a healthy percentage of the hill, much of the administration, many in VA, you know, the veteran community, and that's just here in the DC area. When I look at this, the statistics, we, we get listened to overseas. So I'm just I'm shocked at, you know, at the interest in these topics, but you're right, they're so diverse. The last one was on sleep, and how dementia, you know, can be can be hastened or worsened by lack of sleep. And you're right, we've had some really, really dynamic and fantastic guests on.

Dr. David Shulkin: 8:25

And I think, you know, you're right, we've, we've gotten the word out, which is really what we're about. We're in the top 10% of podcasts of the not for profit organizations, which is a pretty significant thing for being a new podcast. But I think the secret is, is that it's not really about us, it's always about our guests, and letting them tell their story, and letting them communicate directly to the listeners. And people want to hear from interesting people, our job is to find them, and to get them to agree to be on our show.

Louis Celli: 9:03

You are so right. And I am such a poor judge of what people are going to like, you know, we've gone through podcasts where I thought, I don't know if that's going to catch people's attention. And sure enough, somebody will email me and say that was the most important podcast you ever did. And I was so appreciative that you did it. A pop quiz. What do you think our most downloaded and listened to podcast has been to date?

Dr. David Shulkin: 9:29

I wouldn't say John's. John Stewart.

Louis Celli: 9:33

We've had we've had John Stewart. We've had let's see, let me let me pick out General Petraeus. We've had no Sherman Guillen's we've had Sarah Berardo we've had Phyllis Wilson and Lucy Delgado and you know, we've talked about dogs we had Senator Tester on we had, you know, all these people. We've had Congressman roe so what

Dr. David Shulkin: 9:55

is it lo who was our most listened to podcast,

Louis Celli: 9:59

Brian sandbagger for Cerner. Wow. Number one podcast and has maintained that title. For the past for the past several months, I

Dr. David Shulkin: 10:11

would think a boring topic like an electronic medical record, people are interested in that one.

Louis Celli: 10:17

Well, you know what, it just goes to show a couple of things. One, it shows that it's an important topic that that people can identify and associate with the upgrades and the money that's being spent at VA to make sure that veterans have access to their medical records. And to it also shows that Cerner is engaged. I'm sure many of those listeners came from within the Cerner community.

Dr. David Shulkin: 10:41

Yeah. People at Cerner want to know what's going on. They come to us. Good. Well, listen, I, I don't want to make this about us or about policy bets. This is really about veterans, because yesterday was Veterans Day. And, you know, I still think that too many people look at it as an early Black Friday sale, rather than what it's really meant to do, which is to take out time to acknowledge, thank respect, remember, those who have served our country and continue to serve, if it wasn't for the very small percent that raised their hand to defend our country, this is a very dangerous world out there. And too often our freedoms are, are really not understood the important role that these people play in allowing us to lead the types of lives that we do. So again, you know, our sincere, thank you our sincere respect. And it's why we continue to do what we do to be able to give back to those who are serving and those who have served,

Louis Celli: 12:02

Mr. Secretary, really, thank you for saying that, you know, it's, it's always awkward for me as a veteran when you know, when someone says thank you for your service, or, you know, Happy Veterans Day, or, you know, whatever, because I, you know, I never saw myself as someone who who put on a uniform to be recognized, I put on a uniform, you know, for, for what I could do for how I could help. So, I really appreciate you saying,

Dr. David Shulkin: 12:28

Well, Happy Veterans Day, and thank you for your service.

Louis Celli: 12:31

Yeah. And there you go. Right. Never without the last word. But listen, real quick, let me fill you in on on a couple of folks we have on deck. So you know, we've done a number of podcasts on veteran suicide, we've got a little bit of a different slant with a guest coming up guy named Jim Lorraine runs miracle warrior partnership. And he went ahead and and started a project called Operation Deep Dive. His assertion and it's backed by one of our previous podcast, get podcast guests, is that DOD and VA aren't counting all the numbers, they're being selective on who they're counting as a victim of suicide and who they're ignoring. And he's done some research in that area, and is able to back it up with data and verified statistics.

Dr. David Shulkin: 13:19

Wow, that's, that sounds like it's gonna be an interesting one.

Louis Celli: 13:23

It is, it is another guest we have is, I mean, really just a very colorful and, and entertaining general that I met. During my travels recently, it's a secretary for veterans and military affairs in North Carolina, it's Lieutenant General Walter get Gaskin and you know, he served with General Petraeus, and General McChrystal, and, you know, what I, what I thought might be good is if he was able to share with our listeners, the importance of having someone that overseas, you know, the Veteran Programs at the state level, the power that they have, and the programs that they oversee. And then we we got into a little bit about the withdrawal from Afghanistan, and, you know, his his leadership efforts, and you know, what he was trying to do to stabilize the country. So he'll talk a little bit about that, too. That is not a podcast, you're gonna want to miss.

Dr. David Shulkin: 14:23

Okay. I think that sounds good. And I don't think many people hear from our state leadership in the way that they should so so I'm glad we're doing that. Well, listen. It's going to be an exciting year. There's no question about it. We're, we're hoping for an active policy year. We're hoping for Congress to, you know, stop some of the Pickering that's been going on and really focus on on getting things done and We want to, we want to help them do that.

Louis Celli: 15:02

You're exactly right. You know, we're going to focus on some of the same issues we've been focusing on all along. We're going to, you know, we're going to keep track of the Community Care Program and, and how that serving veterans and how much that's costing is, as we continue to send people downtown. We're going to be following the burn pits issue. You know, the Secretary just did a just did an interview with Leo Shane, where he absolutely no holds barred committed to start covering some of these illnesses. You know, we're going to look at the asset and infrastructure act and and how that's rolling out and some of the some of the work that's been done there. And, you know, we're seeing some changes in VSO leadership, where we're going to be welcoming back a Stallworth advocate in this area, Bob Wallace to the VFW.

Dr. David Shulkin: 15:52

Well, that's, that's good news. Because, you know, I really have missed having the tenure of some of the experienced veterans leaders. And as I said, once you've done it, you're always a phone call away. So I'm sure he was enjoying his retirement when he got a phone call. And he just didn't have to say no, so. So I think Washington's gonna really enjoy having him back in town.

Louis Celli: 16:21

You have a term for that. Don't you know what failed retirement?

Dr. David Shulkin: 16:25

A lot of people fail it. Yes.

Louis Celli: 16:28

I can't think of a better way for him to fail retirement than then to come back and serve once again. That's right.

Dr. David Shulkin: 16:34

Good. All right. Well, as always, Lou enjoyed talking to you today. And I want to just wish all of our listeners a very Happy Veterans Day.

Louis Celli: 16:49

Thank you, Mr. Secretary, and thank you as well for your service to the country it, it made a difference. It made it made a mark and I think that veterans are still benefiting from your service today.

Dr. David Shulkin: 17:01

Thank you. Great, thank you.

Charlie Malone: 17:10

Thanks for listening to the policy bets podcasts. For more information about projects and other podcasts go to policy vets.org