A Table of Contents? | Disruptive Presence 1

In which John and David turn their attention to the book of Acts. In this new season of Two Texts we will explore this fascinating fifth book of the New Testament. What happens after Jesus? What did his disciples do and why... and even how.

Episode 54 of the Two Texts Podcast | Disruptive Presence

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Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021

Transcript

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[00:00:00] David: Hi everyone, John and I are back with you for a new season of two texts taking you into the summer this time. I hope it's sunny where you are. Right now it's sunny where I am and where John is. And I can't decide, which is the biggest miracle, John.  

[00:00:17] John: Well, well, you, you, you can have sunshine and snow on the same day, which is pretty impressive, but of course, in the, in the UK, we can have four seasons in a day and quite regularly do that. So, so yeah, yesterday I was working in my study. It got so dark at one point because of a thunderstorm in the middle of a sunny day that I had to turn the light on in my study. 

[00:00:39] So, that's, that's the joys of, of living in a beautifully changeable climate, like the United Kingdom.  

[00:00:45] David: So John, for this summer series, we're going to talk about the book of act. So it's a bit of a move for us is two texts. We've focused around Jesus' stories predominantly since we launched just over a year ago now. 

[00:01:00] But here we are jumping into book five of the new Testament for the summer. I'm excited about that. And tell me about, tell me how you were feeling.  

[00:01:09] John: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've loved the first year of dwelling in and around the person of Jesus. But of course, as we think about the gospels, the ultimate trajectory of Jesus is that he wants to build a community that will carry him. Carry his message carry his kingdom to the world. And it's all moving towards that. 

[00:01:32] And so it feels, it feels after a year of dwelling in the stories of Jesus, it's good to sort of see what this Jesus community started to do and what lessons we can learn from it today in the 21st century. So it feels, it feels like the right time to jump. Yeah. 

[00:01:47] David: And act is, is an interesting book. And I think we'll unpack this, even as we talk about the first, the first few chapters of it as Luke sort of sets up the scene for what he's trying to do with With this book. And I think there's a little bit, even as we, as we go along and perhaps anyone listening and engaging with the series will, will feel a sense of what his acts about his acts, about the continuing story of Jesus, his acts about, it's called the act of the apostles, but. But at some level, it could also be acts of the holy spirit it's. And I I have from time to time engaged with Willie Jennings commentary on acts, which is a very, very challenging commentary to read. Wouldn't imagine that everybody would agree with everything he says in it. But of course that's not the point in reading, is it? 

[00:02:34] But he opens his commentary. Thanks, John, with these three sentences and I, and I can't get any more than this into our first comment of acts without really. Then when he says the book of acts speaks of revolution, we must never forget this. It depicts life in the disrupting presence of the spirit of God.  

[00:02:55] John: That's beautiful. Yeah. I love that. Love that. 

[00:02:58] David: and I hope that what people will engage with as we read that is a holding that, that freeze, the disrupting presence that. 

[00:03:06] that God is now. What, what we'll I think we'll see is a little bit of a precursor is one of the disruptions. Is the fact that God is bringing everybody into the presence of the spirit of God, that God is drawing people to himself. 

[00:03:20] Which, you almost think, well that doesn't send disrupting that's the goal, isn't it. But then in acts, you realize, oh, this is going to require a lot of these disciples to be able to, to cope with how disrupting the spirit of God wants.  

[00:03:34] John: Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think the book of acts is not just a story of the expansion of this Jesus community and make goodness water story that is, it begins in an opera room in Jerusalem. And by the end of the book of acts, we are in the house. At the center of the empire, the Roman empire Capitol city of Rome itself. 

[00:03:53] So it is an amazing story of expansion and enlargement, but it is also a story of discomfort of learning, of growing of friction, even a fracture. And it shows again, the human element in this divine plan that, that, that, because the Lord has chosen to use us as humans, there is inevitably some awkward moments on this journey. 

[00:04:18] So moments of great joy and also moments of create grit, challenge you in a couple of moments where the church really teeters on the brink of a fracture. And and we see all of that in, in, in the context of this Jesus community empowered by the spirit sent to the ends of the earth by Jesus himself. 

[00:04:38] So I love the fact that it's a bit of a roller coaster rate. I love the fact that it is a bit uncomfortable at times. And again, Luke carries on the story of the church in the same way the gospel writers have presented to them. The gospel itself and that it, it presents people in their fullness, the rawness and the reality, but the magnificence of the relentlessness of the gospel and the kingdom of God in the midst of that brokenness and in the midst of that vulnerability and weakness. 

[00:05:09] So it's a grit. It's a great study for us to jump into. 

[00:05:12] David: Yes, absolutely. And, and frame so much For us, for all of us. There's. There's those of us who want to ask questions about scripture, about what's going on in the depths of, of, of a biblical texts, but then with acts goodness, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm only a moment into the podcast And I'm going to quote Jennings twice, but he, one of the things he says beautifully about acts is it, the act is in a, is a beginning without an end in sight. 

[00:05:42] Right. So, so there's also a sense that when you read act. There's the biblical study of it, but there's also this shaping of you as a Jesus followers, own story. Isn't there. This is, this is the beginning of your story. And so here we are a couple of thousand years later, some levels still working out this, this narrative of the holy spirit. 

[00:06:05] John: Yeah. And, and of course that, that lovely idea of acts being sort of a beginning, but, but no way. And it literally is the case in the book of acts, there is no amen. And the book of acts at the end, it is it's you have this open. Finish where Paul is under house arrest, but fearlessly and relentlessly and boldly proclaiming the gospel and the kingdom of God to his world. 

[00:06:30] So, so you, you, you are getting this sort of. Since that we are, we are X chapter 29 and 30 and 31 and 32. And that what has been gone here is our story. And we must join into that story. And I think that's why the book of acts is a really important tool for us as followers of Jesus. And I know there's great controversy over how we interpret acts. 

[00:06:56] Is it simply narrative, or can we draw on the theology of this book in terms of patterns? And, and, and ideas for us in the 21st century. And I'm sure we'll lean into some of that, but, but if Dr. Luke is presenting, not just a story, but a pattern, if he is presenting, not just information, but ideas, then this book becomes extremely important as a link between. 

[00:07:25] The gospels of Jesus, the story of Jesus, and then the more didactic letters of Paul and Peter and GM's and John and Jude who help on pack, what it looks like to be a follower of Jesus. In the everyday of our world. So, so yeah, I, I, I consider it a really important and vital document to help us understand who we are, why we're here and also what we have as we head into our, our world for Jesus. 

[00:07:58] David: It's interesting because I like, I remember that discussion when I was a young 

[00:08:02] Bible college student it seems like it was a discussion that, that we got involved in quite a lot. Can you take and build theology? From ax, right? This was a question, wasn't it? And that's, you've just alluded to it so that I, I, I've never talked about this before, so this was something that you encountered as well is act just history and you can't and John, like, let me let. 

[00:08:24] If you don't think acts can give you theology, like get out the house, I'm just going to, I'm going to nail my colors right at the start, John, number one, the book begins in my former book. Theopolis quite literally friend of God. Okay. And, and one of the things about acts is. 

[00:08:40] That Luke, Luke never loses his view of God. He he's always aware in every story in acts, the holy spirit is present and doing something even if not explicitly referenced this, God is threaded. Whether, whether references to Jesus, I mean, goodness, in acts, we have a quote from Jesus that we never hear in the gospels. 

[00:09:03] Right. We have, we have God present in guiding them. We have the holy. I was just saying the holy spirit, sometimes I was going to say present, engaging them. It seems that the way of the holy spirit and the whole enact is to run ahead of them and hope they catch up. Right. So, so for me, like, this is God in action. 

[00:09:19] This is this. So I think I, I know I'm not going to get any pushback from you on this, even though you and I have never talked about this before, but you know, as we talk about act. W we're, we're shaping theologically in this week. You and me are coming to this text going, Yes. 

[00:09:36] this is teaching us something about God and about how we should be as a result. 

[00:09:40] John: Totally. Totally. I mean, there's a sense in which Lucas continuing on his Gospel trajectory with no, the book of acts and, in the gospels, we understand that all of the gospel writers, to some extent tale story, they bring us narrative. They, they are inviting us into real history events, but of course, as we've seen. 

[00:10:04] 'cause zillion years talking about in our podcasts. They're also bringing in a profound and clear theological agenda with all of that. Matthew has an agenda. Luke has an agenda. John has things he wants to say to us, not just in terms of here's a story. That's the old warm, the cockles. But here is deep truth within this story. 

[00:10:27] And in fact, the reason I'm telling this story is because I want you to see that deep truth. And I think Luke carries on that genre of writing into the book of acts where the, it looks like a story. He is using, I believe the story as the vehicle to build some profound theological ecclesiological pneumatological and Michele logical ideas, all the beautiful ologies are. 

[00:10:51] But, but I think they're all rest. In fact, I think all of those are resident in the first opening lines of the book of acts. We're seeing, we're seeing Luke showing us that all these ideas are resonant in his writings. So, it is worthy of taking seriously. I, I believe that Luke is a theologian first and historian second, and, and I'm very comfortable with the fact that he uses historical narrative as the vehicle for his theology. 

[00:11:19] Rather than an accidental inclusion on. 

[00:11:22] David: So do we use that as our jump off, let's read the kind of opening verses of acts. Shall we, shall we do Why, why don't we just read that almost the introductory piece for today. And, and then we can sort of jump back in, in our, in our next episode, probably worth saying as well. Our plan for this series is to kind of hang the episodes around the 30 minute mark, a little bit shorter. 

[00:11:46] Perhaps you were on. your summer holidays and, and your family, or don't want to listen to as much two texts in the car as you do. So we're going to give you 30 minute episodes at, throughout the summer, just to allow you to sorta, listen to them in the bath or something like that while you're on your holidays. 

[00:12:02] Does that  

[00:12:03] John: Come on then. If you're, if you're in the bath right now, enjoy, we're really sorry that our voices. Are in the bath with you. That's a disturbing thought at multiple levels, but there we are. We hope that doesn't ruin your bath too much. Enjoy, enjoy the bubbles. 

[00:12:19] David: Absolutely as a John, I'm going to read, let me Just read the first four verses here. 

[00:12:23] John: Just do it. Yep. 

[00:12:24] David: And maybe, actually, maybe I read a little bit longer than that. So, let me read, dent it to verse six. And then we'll, we'll kind of jump in and just set up some, some stuff here for this, for this new season of two tax AB acts one, verse one, it says this in my former book Theopolis I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven. 

[00:12:48] After giving instructions through the holy spirit, to the apostles he had. After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of 40 days and spoke about the kingdom of God on one occasion while he was eating with them, he gave this command, do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift. 

[00:13:12] My father promised, which you have heard me speak about for John baptized with water. But in a few days you will be baptized with the holy spirit. And then they gathered around him and asked him, Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel? And I'll pause it there, John. Cause we can we're we're not going to fit all of that into this episode, but, but there you go, there, there's an introduction to a book. 

[00:13:38] We see this illusion back to Luke now. So we know this is a sequel that we're, that we're kind of jumping in. But, there's some really interesting, I even find that fascinating little lines about convincing proofs that he was alive and that he's eating with them. So this is not ghost stories. 

[00:13:52] Luke is telling us this is Jesus he's here. And I think it seems important because he wants to talk so much about the holy spirit. He seems to want to make sure that Jesus is not there as spirit with them. He's there physically talking about the holy spirit.  

[00:14:06] John: Yes, absolutely. And, and if our listeners really grab Luke 24 as well and pull that in, if you look at the end of Luke 24 and then Ron straight into acts chapter one, it's a seamless connection. Obviously in our Bible, we've got the gospel of John and between those two. But, but in Luke 24, we have Jesus meeting with his disciples, eating with his disciples, teaching his disciples. 

[00:14:32] I love this beautiful reference. He said to them, this is Luke 24 verse 44. This is what I told you while I was still with you. Everything must be fulfilled. That was written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets and the Psalms, a beautiful reference to the whole of the scriptures there. And it says then he opened their minds so they could understand the scriptures. 

[00:14:53] Wow, love that. And I think if you grab Luke 24 and then Ron straight into acts one, you're hearing the sort of continuation of this idea that, that Jesus is giving instructions. To his apostles through the holy spirit within that, the eating together, the walking together, the talking together, the converse and together is all part of those convincing proves approves that he's alive and you get this. 

[00:15:21] And it's acts that tells us that this period that Luke 24 refers to is it is a 40 day period. So we've got this incredible intensive don't load from Jesus and Luke 24, where Jesus is hanging around with this, this group of followers. And he has don't loading as much as possible. There's there's a lovely little illusion here, David. 

[00:15:45] I don't know if you agree with me, maybe again, we, we, we may be guilty of stretching things or seeing things that aren't there, but, but you know, the book of Deuteronomy is mostly. Last month with the children of Israel, it's, it's, it's his words. in Hebrew and he's like, he's, don't loading a whole stack of stuff before the people of God enter the land of promise. 

[00:16:08] And I S I see that illusion here in this 40 day thing that you've got Jesus, it's almost like he's doing a Judah. Ranomi he's doing a don't load, massive donor. Into these disciples from Moses, the Torah, the never EAM, the cat ravine he's don't loading so that when he leaves them, they've got as much deposited in their brains, in their hearts. 

[00:16:31] Maybe even on paper as is physically possible so that when he goes, they're able to run with the idea. So I love that census. They're about to go into the world of. He's done loading Moses don't loads into the people of God, as they're about to go into the land of promise. And you see that again, that sense of Jesus, this substance fulfilling the shadow in Moses himself. 

[00:16:54] At least I, I think that's there anyway. 

[00:16:56] David: I think that the, the whole presence of language such as the, the 40 days, the, the, all of these things if you've been tracking with two texts across the last year where we're often looking for those little subtle illusions and asking, I wonder if I wonder if, and I know perhaps. I'm looking at, at the end of Luke, just now as you were talking and it does, it does strike me as those those kinds of American TV shows where you get to the end of the show. 

[00:17:24] And just before the credits roll, the show finishes. And then it's like next time on, it's almost a little bit like that. Once you get to Luke 24 verse 44, It's like, it's like Luke decided I'm going to quickly end this because I know I'm going to write a whole book about what goes on next. Cause cause you get this nothing contradicts what's going on in in acts, but it's, it's vastly abbreviated. 

[00:17:47] Isn't it? It's a little trailer almost, but, but I think for me, it's interesting. If you listen to what you're saying, John, what's the connection to Moses. What's the connection between the 40 days? What are people's understanding of what's going on here? Notice the question of the disciples. Are you going to restore the kingdom of this? So at very least we, as interpreters have to say that the disciples were cognizant that the things Jesus was doing seemed to be leading as part of Israel's bigger story. So, so I don't think it's a stretch for us as readers to say, I think Luke's doing something here, but of course the, the left turn that Luke's going to make as we get to act is that God's kingdom is doing something beyond what the expected.  

[00:18:34] John: Yeah. 
 

[00:18:34] David: I don't think it, if, let me say it better. If the disciples. Are going to ask that question. I don't think we're far off base to think there's clearly stuff going on in this story, which is. 

[00:18:46] drawing illusions to the great big story of Israel. Because the disciples are feeling it like, okay, God, right. You know what what's going on here? 

[00:18:53] And just before you go there and Jesus, what time, what time are you going to put the kingdom of Israel back into place? Free us from these, these awkward these awkward Roman oppressors perhaps, or, or something like that. I I'm with you, John, on that. I'm with you. And it's interesting, then you've got this here, we're back in acts now acts chapter one, verse three, here, peer to them over a period of 40 days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 

[00:19:20] And then that's quite interesting because it feels almost like in Luke, he's been speaking about the kingdom of God the whole time, but he still has more to say.  

[00:19:28] John: Yes, absolutely. And it's, what's fascinating. I think there's two things to sort of reflect on there. I think in the book of acts, there are very few direct references to the kingdom of God. I think there's only about six. And this one's given to his right at the beginning in terms of a reference and it feels a little bit like the gospels in the gospel of Luke. 

[00:19:51] For example, Jesus being has been working very hard to define the kingdom, and then you have these. Lovely disciples, sort of asking a slightly different question about the kingdom than perhaps Jesus is no positioning them towards. So they're still seeing the kingdom very much still in the, in the context of their, their background, their Jewishness, et cetera. 

[00:20:16] And Jesus is clearly positioning. And as being trained to position them for something bigger and they're still struggling a little bit, and that's a little bit of a clue as to what's to come. There is a struggle within that first generation of wonderful Jewish believers. They are ultimately going to have a struggle with the idea of Jesus. 

[00:20:38] As the fulfillment of everything, not just for, for a Jewish community, but for Gentiles and on a whole conversation erupts around Moses first, then Dan Jesus. And because of this tussle around identity and ethnicity and the kingdom of God. So we're already getting a little illusion though, that Jesus is trying to head that off. 

[00:20:59] He's trying to position them so that they understand the kingdom is bigger than them. But also what's really fascinating is then the language of the kingdom sort of diminishes as we go through the book of acts and what starts to then almost eclipse that is, is the language of the church, this ecclesia, this gathered community this gathered community starts to represent what the kingdom actually looks like and what it should become. 

[00:21:26] So I think right there, you've got those ideas. A sort of a, this is a tipping point moment in many ways in terms of the story, but it would be a few years yet before that fully tips as a, as a theological revelation for some of those disciples in that room with Jesus right now. 

[00:21:44] David: The kingdom of God as the ecclesia, the kingdom of God, as the church has, is a beautiful act image I think we'll talk about this in the next episode, when we get down to chapters to chapter one verses going to four, five and six, which is such a key point to understanding acts, but for now. 

[00:22:01] just to hold that tension, that. 

[00:22:04] We are going to see the kingdom of God. The kingdom question of the discipled is going to make sense in act, but, but totally not as you might have expected if you've been tracking the whole story. But it's interesting even just on a, on a literary level. Cause yeah, I agree with everything you've said there John's I don't want this to sound like it's, it's a contradiction. 

[00:22:24] I just did a quick search in English because I realized, I didn't know the answer, but Yeah. 

[00:22:27] there's. Seven stories that referenced that the kingdom of God in acts. And one of them seems to reference the word kingdom twice. But if you go to acts 28, the very last chapter. So, if you think of the trajectory we're talking about kingdom and then kingdom language fades out and we get this language of, of the church. But it's interesting. Luke does something just really interesting. I think on a literary level, we get to chapter 28. We have the conclusion insight. Paul's now in Rome at the, the center of the empire. And, and what is he doing in 28? Verse 26. He's witnessing to them, think of it, this language, right? 

[00:23:09] Cause we're going to, and maybe this language will become more apparent as we go through the first few verses of acts, but he witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God and from the law of Moses and from the profits, he tried to persuade them about Jesus. Right. And then right down at the very end of acts, the very, very last verse, verse 31. 

[00:23:29] Well, let's read the verse 30 for two whole years. Paul stared there on his own. That's all right, let me read this in English. It gives, I don't know what those words were that I just said for two whole years, Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. He proclaimed the kingdom of God and talk about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance. 

[00:23:52] But it just, it just strikes me that, that, that final verse 23. If you were to compare acts one, so we've got Jesus unpacking scripture for the disciples. You've got Jesus saying in verse six where I knew I didn't read it today. Sorry, verse eight. But you'll be my witnesses throughout the end of their Africa. 

[00:24:12] Jesus explaining the kingdom of God to them. And then by the end, just, you've got Paul you've just got Paul in one sentence, doing kingdom of God, explaining. And, and unpacking scriptures as to how this relates to Jesus. So, so you're Absolutely. 

[00:24:30] right. The kingdom of language disappears while we, we bring in this language of the church. 

[00:24:35] But I wonder if Luke's not just at the end going, Hey, look at where it starts. He'd look at where Andy, there's a thread. There's a thread here.  

[00:24:42] John: Oh, it's beautiful. Absolutely. There's a, there's an undeniable cemetery, the language of Paul and and the language of Jesus, Luke 24 X one. It's almost identical. Isn't it. But what's what changes dramatically is content. So at the beginning of acts, the context is totally Jewish. At the end of acts, the context is the center of the empire. 

[00:25:06] So I think you get this beautiful symmetry of the language of the kingdom and the fact that this ecclesia, this community will carry this kingdom and represent this kingdom. But also you see the fact that actually this kingdom conversation started in one context and know it ain't. It has landed and continues to expand in another context. 

[00:25:29] And I think you get that beautiful Lukin trajectory from, from temple to host from Jerusalem to Rome, from Jewish happy center to night, a Gentile worldview, and all those ideas are threaded together really beautifully. And that first and last chapter of acts, it's a gorgeous. Link, 

[00:25:50] David: And that's the plane they didn't mention. Of course, isn't it enact in acts one eight. You will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth. And then of course we find Paul in Rome,  

[00:26:01] John: in, in the ends of the earth. Absolutely.  

[00:26:03] David: know, potentially potentially on his way to Spain, which were people think, think of in those times as the ends of the earth, some scholars have referred to acts one verse eight, almost as a table of contents.  

[00:26:14] John: Indeed 

[00:26:15] David: Which I quite love you. Jesus is like, you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea Samaria, and the ends of the earth. And then you get into acts and we're going to see those places listed, , as places that the holy spirit goes and works, it's pretty, it's pretty exciting the way it comes together. 

[00:26:29] John: It's beautiful. And again, it shows again when you, those threads start to come together you realize Luke is not just writing a story. This is not just random events, but there is a thoughtfulness in the way he's putting the story together. And some of the ideas left with us in Luke 24. 

[00:26:47] Re-introduced an X one become the seed bed for the ideas that we'll know run with over the next. However many chapters, we, we do together in this beautiful podcast.