Looking at the Sky | Disruptive Presence 4

In which John and David reflect on Jesus' ascension in Acts 1. What does Acts have to say about what God is doing in the world and plans for the future? It often seems that when we reflect on what God is planning to do in the future it makes a little more sense of what Jesus' followers should do now.

Episode 57 of the Two Texts Podcast | Disruptive Presence 4

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Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021

Transcript

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[00:00:00] John: Hey, so David, we are back and this is number four. So far of the book of acts and we have well, we're still in the first 11 verses David. So 

[00:00:58] David: rushed our way to verse eight. 

[00:01:00] John: we have rushed our way to verse eight. We, we dropped off at advers eight. Yes. At last, last podcast. So. But I, I, I hope I hope our listeners are appreciating it. 

[00:01:09] Personally I'm reading the Bible slower than I've ever read it and I'm getting more out of it than I've ever got out of it. And, and sometimes we rush past these beautiful texts and, and maybe we need to slow down a bit. So whatever else our listeners are are, are listening to, or reading, maybe a slow burn through the book of acts will, will be a nice little supplement to the journey. 

[00:01:31] So so we're gonna pick this up again. And last time we, we talked about this idea of the, the power of the spirit causing that community to be witnesses so that they could go to the nations of the world. And we've introduced that idea, which will unpack throughout our story on the book of act. 

[00:01:46] But then we see this sort of incredible climactic moment to this introduction of not only Jesus being with them and the promise of the holy spirit coming, but then Jesus leav. And it's a, it's a really quite traumatic moment. So we, we, would you like to read this or do you want me to read the text? 

[00:02:02] David: no, I'm very happy to, yeah, you're absolutely right. This is, as far as endings of sermons go, this has gotta be up there amongst the best. I've not seen 

[00:02:11] John: No, 
 

[00:02:12] David: so so we have act one verse eight, which, we've, we've read a few times that Jesus leaves them with this. You're receiving power. You'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judas Samaria, and to the end of the. 

[00:02:22] And then, and then the next three verses go like this ex chapter one, verse nine, after he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. Men of Galilee. 

[00:02:42] They said, why do you stand here looking into the sky, this same Jesus who has been taking from you into heaven will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven. there's, there's a story. 

[00:02:59] John: Yeah. And then, and then the next verse sort of says I love the sort of change of gear from, from Dr. B then the apostles return to Jerusalem. from the hill called the Mount of ologist, like, okay. Let's just go back and, and you get that. We we've seen this before. Have we in the gospels, a dramatic moment followed by. 

[00:03:18] okay. And then they walked back to Jerusalem and, and you, suddenly you've had this incredible encounter, this dramatic Ascension moment. And then right back, back to normality as it were back to a world now on a world without Jesus, it seems which is quite a dramatic moment for them. 

[00:03:36] David: Well, yeah, absolutely. It it's so true. The contrast of the stunning and the normal, right? The fact that Luke even includes in verse 12. Oh, it was about a Sabbath day's walk. So it's about a kilometer, , it's like the apostles walked home for a kilometer and and now what a great thought you just said there that without Jesus or, or, or. 

[00:03:56] And now that's an interesting, like, it's an interesting little gap in the story, isn't it? That 

[00:04:00] John: it is. 

[00:04:01] David: the holy spirit is coming. Jesus has left and actually even how they play out this story without Jesus, perhaps we take a moment or two at some point in this, in this episode to talk about that. But, but let's stay where we read just now. 

[00:04:15] So one verse nine, 10 and 11. Where do you wanna start with this? John? 

[00:04:20] John: Well, I, one of the things for me, really, this few little verse reinforce is again, the big ideas that Luke is introducing right at the beginning of his narrative. So, he has introduced. Our reintroduced kingdom of God to us. And we've talked about the topping and tailing of that in the, in the book of acts, just beautiful symmetry there, he's introduced the holy spirit in a, in a way towards this gathered community, which reflects the symmetry of his gospel. 

[00:04:52] He's the introduced to all nations. And now we get this not only the Ascension of Jesus, but this promise at this same Jesus who has been taken from you. We'll come back in the same way. So you're, you're getting now an introduction to what we might call an eschatological dynamic. So, so you've got, you've got kingdom of God. 

[00:05:14] Eschatology at the beginning, you've now got this future. Jesus will comeback idea. And in between that you've, you've, you've been introduced to the power of the spirit and to the nations of the world. So you you've got some big ologies that are being represented. A nematology in the holy spirit, a mythology to the nations of the world. 

[00:05:35] You, you might even want to argue an ecclesiology that says you're my witnesses. You'll be my witnesses. And you talked about that. Beautiful joined, joined community, neither, male and female Jew or great slave or fray. It's all, it's all happening there. And now we've got a massive eschatological idea introduced. 

[00:05:56] I'm wondering David was, was the belief in Jesus coming again, part of the urgency of this community in seeking to reach their world or, or, is, is that an idea? That's coincidental at the beginning of this text, but, but Luke has introduced some massive ideas in the first 11 verse. Yeah. 

[00:06:19] David: definitely. This is, is one of the challenges of , scholarship even is, is to ask the question, do the, I think they call it the sort of delayed Peru. So, so, are the disciples motivated by, oh my goodness, Jesus is coming back next week. And and therefore we need to get about this or is there more depth to that? 

[00:06:41] And I, and I think sometimes there. A tendency within scholarship. I personally think to overplay the disciples expectation that Jesus is coming back next week, right? Yes, they do definitely talk in terms of an uncertainty, but, and maybe I'm being too vague when I say this, but you know, so this, so the scholarly idea leans into. 

[00:07:03] Oh, the disciples thought Jesus was coming back next week. And then they realized he wasn't kind of got a bit disappointed. Whereas I would say what you see is the early church has an expectation that Jesus could come back at any point next week, but they go out and plant churches. They don't just go out and preach the gospel. 

[00:07:21] They go out and plant churches. That tells me, and they instruct these churches about stuff like, how to live with each other and how to treat one another and how to help one another and, and how to manage their marriages and what to do with their children and all of this. Isn't the stuff of Jesus is coming back next week. 

[00:07:39] This is the stuff of how do we do life together with an awareness that Jesus could come back at some point? That, that's how I read that, John. I. I don't know if that resonates with 

[00:07:51] John: Oh, it does. Totally. And, and I think, I, I think you get a beautiful, I don't know, you, you almost get a beautiful. Symmetry with, message that God's exilic people had, even in the old Testament, when Jeremiah talks about the reality that one day the exile will come to an end, but until then, Plant houses are build houses, plant gardens, give your children in marriage. 

[00:08:20] Bring the shell on of God, to the city. Be good citizens. Be contributors you. Yeah, I, I think in Jeremiah's instruction to the exiled community of God in first of all, Babylon and, and then ultimately in Persia you, you get to see a nuance. You're you're getting this idea one day. You will be. Returned, you will come back to the land of promise, but until then, you've gotta live with the expectancy that, that day's going to happen. 

[00:08:47] But you've also gotta, you've gotta live like good citizens and, and bring something of, kind of say the kingdom. From a Jewish world view point of view, to, to the world of Babylon, to the world of, of Persia. I think here we've got exactly the same idea. And, and I, I think a Jewish nuance would really grab that really quickly that yes, Jesus is coming back. 

[00:09:14] We're not quite sure when, so we're gonna live with one eye. On the fact that he's coming, but we're also going to throw ourselves fully into building something that represents him until he returns. And I think that's, that's the, for, for me, that's a healthy way to manage that tension, working as if he is returning at any moment, but working that if he doesn't return in the next 24 hours, we're building. 

[00:09:44] So. We're we're contributing something. We are doing kingdom stuff in our world to help our world. And I think that's, that's a nice way to manage that tension. I that's certainly the way I manage it anyway. 

[00:09:57] David: yes. And, and of course there's, , there's so many interspersed thoughts in there. I, I was thinking about. Your Jeremiah 29 verse seven seek the welfare of the city or some seek the peace and prosperity. Of course, the Hebrew. And I've probably said this before, but I think it's a profound little piece of text seek the Shalom of the city is what. 

[00:10:17] Now we often translate the word Shalom as peace, but I have taken in recent years to translate it as wholeness, because I think that's a better understanding of the Hebrew concept at play in Shalom that the peace is not the absence of violence. Peace for the, for the Hebrew scriptures is all things put back together. 

[00:10:40] Now what I think's fascinating is another word for all things being put back together. Another word for wholeness is oneness, right? If something is not broken, it's put back together into one piece and then you get, and, and I, I think if I can have some license come back to what we talked about in the last episode, relations three. 

[00:10:59] You, we are all one in Christ. Jesus. Well, how are we one? Well, there was Jew and Greek, but now there's togetherness. There was slave and free, but now there's togetherness. There was male and female. Now there's togetherness. The impact of God is to bring oneness and to bring togetherness. Now holding a kind of theological line for a second there, think about which is go on a bit of a journey. 

[00:11:21] You can replay this back afterwards to catch my, my, my path, but you know, so we're all one in Christ. Jesus, what is the plan of God? Well, Ephesians one 10 tells us that the plan of God is that God is bringing heaven and earth back together. Right. So, so what is God's plan to reunite? Literally everything in Eden and Genesis one, there is no gap between heaven and earth and God's plan is to remove the gap between heaven and earth. 

[00:11:47] We see in revelation, God achieves that plan. Heaven and earth are brought back together. Again. Now with those two poles set. Think about the end of first Corinthians 15, where Paul's talking about resurrection and his conclusion to this big argument about resurrection. He says brethren, brothers, and sisters be steadfast. 

[00:12:08] Imovable always abounding in the work of the Lord and know that your labor is not in vain. Right. So I think so often when we talk about resurrection and future hope our, our sermons end with, so don't worry, Jesus is coming. Paul's sermon on resurrection and future hope is get to work. there's things to do. 

[00:12:31] And, but, but the key thing is, but Paul says your work is not wasted. Well, if I'm, if I'm planting a tree today and Jesus comes back tomorrow, surely that work is a waste of time . But, but if God's ultimate plan is to bring heaven and earth back into a place of restoration, then there is a continuity between the present and the future that I think we often don't. 

[00:12:54] Speak to notice what the angel says to the men of Galilee. Jesus is coming back the same way. He's not abandoned this. So the work that we do, isn't in vain, it does carry on into God's future. And maybe that's a little too dense John to say in try and say in three minutes. But, but I think it's, I think it's important theology for us to wrestle with as Jesus followers. 

[00:13:17] John: I, I think it's not just important. I think it's essential. I think it's absolutely essential. I don't think it's dense at all dear, but I think our listeners will grab that. And I think intuitively there is something within us that would grab that idea. The idea of living as a community. Set apart waiting for God to come back and not contributing to the world in which we live is in my opinion, an alien one, even from, from tracking NA Torah. 

[00:13:47] So, so God's intention was that he would have a kingdom of priests. That he would have a holy nation that he would have a, a kingdom of people. When he says kingdom of priest in Exodus 19, he's not referring there to the ironic priesthood, the, the, the sort of ceremonial priesthood he's speaking there of the whole nation, that the nation would be a kingdom of priests that they would be exporters of God to the world. 

[00:14:16] And then in the same breath, he says, God wants people to be a holy nation. Well, that that's an example dynamic. That's, that's that's me and you looking in on this people of God and go, wow, look at the way they live. Look at the way they behave. Look what they're building. Look at how their society's working, look at how they treat the poor look at how they operated with, with justice. 

[00:14:36] So, so here I am a, a sort of. An outsider, looking in on the people have gone going, wow. I like what I see. Or at least, even if I don't like what I see, I can't deny what I see. They've built something that is so dynamically, societally tangible. That it cannot be ignored, even if I don't like it. And I think, I think that first wave of believers carrying the kingdom through the vehicle of the aplasia of the church would've absolutely understood this dynamic of looking forward. 

[00:15:16] To something greater a consummation moment, but also living present in the moment and holding the two ideas together allows us to maximize both. If, if we are only looking forward, oh, Jesus is coming back. If we're only looking forward, then we're going to miss dynamic presence moments. Right. If we're not looking forward, then right now can all feel a little bit selfish desperate and depressing, depending on where you're sitting on the scale of life. 

[00:15:50] So holding the two ideas together that we're building, but we're also looking forward to something beyond us. I, I think if we can capture that exilic idea, if we can capture that to the nations of the world idea. I think it's transformational. I think it's transformational at a local level. Every local church could then be a dynamic Shalom carrier for its community and bringer of God's peace to that community and wholeness to that community. 

[00:16:22] And, and of course, as, as you've alluded to before Paul in Ephesians talks about Jesus being the Shalom that has brought the two together. So, so ultimately even in a Jewish worldview and a Gentile worldview brought together in a SHA alumness with Jesus, that then Shalon community that complete community takes its completeness in Christ to its world. 

[00:16:47] And build stuff, plant stuff, engages with its world and brings something to the kingdom of God to bear right where we are. I think if we can hold he's coming, but we're also called the build at intention. I, I think we get the best of all worlds, David. 

[00:17:02] David: Well, we're back into both and theology aren't we 

[00:17:04] John: We are. 

[00:17:05] David: which is, I mean, and I mean that as a deep compliment to what you're saying. Andrew root talks about how the church lives in crisis is, is the church. 

[00:17:14] And now not crisis in, oh my goodness. The roof's on fire. Right? but, but in terms of a, a crisis that there's, there's a tension, there's a, there's an unsettledness there's we know things are not the way they should be. And root talks about how so often what we're looking for as Jesus followers and Christians is stability. 

[00:17:35] Which actually is a way that we're looking for control and what we'd actually like is we'd like everything to be absolutely a okay. So that we can know where we are and we're called as Christians to live in this now. And not yet tension that, the kingdom is here, but it is still coming. We're called to echo Shalom, but there is more Shalom to come. 

[00:17:56] The, the spirit of the son is in us crying Abba father. But the same son is coming back from heaven, and God is reuniting all things and, and I feel. One of the tensions that we have to become comfortable with as Christians is tension, we've got to learn to live in the middle space in the app, apologies of this phrase in first Corinthians that those of us upon whom the ends of the ages have come, that we live disjointed in our time. 

[00:18:23] And and I think, and I think that's. The disciples are about to head into. And it's fascinating to me how in acts chapter one, and I just I'm really struck with the way you phrased at the start that they went back to Jerusalem without Jesus. And, and now without, can we ever be without God? 

[00:18:40] I know that's not what you were, you were digging in, but they, but they know he's gone now, right. Because if you notice at the start of X It says in verse three, he appeared to them over a period of 40 days. So he's not been with them for 40 days. He's been, he's been somewhere else, but at verse nine, 10 and 11, they realize, oh, this time he's gone right. 

[00:19:01] This time, he is not coming back. And it strikes me as interesting then that their first thing that they then go to deal with is they have a little meeting. They. Which is, which is good. And they're, they're following that, but they, they realize, and they realize the holy Spirit's been doing something, but they've got this Juda problem at hand, right? 

[00:19:19] Where Judas betrayed Jesus. He's now dead. And, and we need another person to come in and replace him. You. In the role of, of this ministry. So they, they pull this guy, Joseph Barabbas and Matt Theus. And what's interesting is how do they choose? They cast lots. Right? And, and, and so, so I just I'm, maybe I'm digging too deep into it, but they go home without Jesus. 

[00:19:46] The holy spirit is one chapter off and their way of making a decision. Even those people of prayers, we're just gonna cast lots and see what happens. Two things strike me as interesting. Right. They still pray, Lord, everyone's heart. They say in verse 24, show us which of these two, you have chosen to take over his apostolic ministry, which Judas left off to go, where he belongs. 

[00:20:07] And then they cast the lot. So they believe that God will guide the randomness of the lot. Casting. What to me is interesting is you never see the church cast lots. 

[00:20:17] John: Yep. 
 

[00:20:17] David: And, and Matt, the doesn't seem to do anything. , he's just like 

[00:20:21] John: yeah. Who was 

[00:20:21] David: appears. Yeah, it's true. And to the extent that some people have even said that, that, that the actual ju replacement is Paul. 

[00:20:29] John: Yeah. 
 

[00:20:30] David: but I think it's interesting, just that little subtle contrast of how the church behaves without the holy spirit. Does that make sense? 

[00:20:40] John: It does. It does. And, and also a little addition, and I would just add to that. I think that's a fascinating insight from you. But also the fact that leaning back into our previous conversation about NA and not yet it's, it's okay. They've gotta get on with business. So, so, you know what I mean? 

[00:20:58] Sort of just seeing Jesus. and they go, right. Okay. We've got an, an apostle gap. 

[00:21:05] David: Yes. 
 

[00:21:05] John: And, and so they, they want this gap filled for whatever reason. And there's all sorts of, ideas we could have around why they wanted a 12th apostle back again. But, but the point is. It's like, okay, well, why we're waiting for the spirit. 

[00:21:19] Let's get on. Let's do some stuff. So, so I interesting that they maybe engage some practices. They never engage with again formally after the holy spirit comes. And that might be saying something of life without the holy spirit, but also this sort of tension idea that, yeah, we've just seen Jesus leave, but he's told us to wait in Jerusalem and we've got to get ready for whatever's coming. 

[00:21:43] So let's get ready. so you get that lovely idea that they are, however they're doing it. Whether we agree with the way they do it or not, they are preparing for whatever is coming. They are they're in this gap moment, approximately 10 days, they're gonna be waiting for chaat for Pente cost. And, and, and actually we gotta get on and do something. 

[00:22:06] And I love this, this amazing. Liminal moment between this phenomenal eschatological promise. Jesus goes, oh, but he's coming back the same way. You've seen him go physical and physical. He will return. 

[00:22:21] David: mm-hmm 

[00:22:22] John: And then they're about to receive the dynamic power of the holy spirit and in between, well, well, we've gotta sort of get on with life. 

[00:22:29] We've gotta, we've gotta do some stuff and you get the, these, these amazing events sandwiching this normality. In this routineness within that, which is, which is staggering. Really. I, I, I think there's a, a lovely sort of just reflection of how life often works for us as well. Within that 

[00:22:50] David: And of course, I mean, they do their, their strategies isn't and this is where I think it was interesting off the back of your comment of they went home without Jesus. All the stuff they do is right based on the place that they currently sit in this story. They, they consult scripture. They say, well, the scripture seems to say this, right? 

[00:23:08] They say, we should replace his leadership position with somebody who's been with us the whole time. So that it is a disciple. They chooses, they, they find this person, they need to be a witness to the resurrection. Right. So, so this person's been from John's baptism. To the time Jesus was taken up and they, and, but they must become a witness with us of his resurrection. 

[00:23:29] So there's, there's all the stuff they do is right. Even their prayer is right. And the fact that Luke even presents it without criticism, before the holy spirit, what else can you do? But, but consult the scriptures, pray to God and, and hope that's the best way forward. Now, now then there's another point that I think potentially, potentially spirals off from that is, is that when the, when the disciples do actually what do you. 

[00:23:58] Get the holy spirit. We see them in acts 15. Right? 

[00:24:03] John: Mm. 
 

[00:24:03] David: they use this phrase. It seemed good to the holy spirit. So, so there's also the sense of, so in acts one, it's like, well, what is, what are we gonna do? Well, let's look at scriptures. Let's pray. Let's make a decision. And actually the holy spirit doesn't take those. 

[00:24:22] Processes away in the acts 15 council. When we eventually get to acts 15 at this pace, I think it'd be about 20, 25. But when we, when we get to acts 15 notice there's prayer, there's consultation of scripture, and then there's this sense of, it seems that the holy spirit is in us. The holy spirit will not. 

[00:24:39] Take away human responsibility. We've said it already. You can, you can be full of the holy spirit, be a good person and still not follow that path. So, so there's something beautiful about what we're, whatever we are talking about. When we talk about the holy spirit, we're not talking about God taking over people's lives and. 

[00:25:01] And, and removing their own agency, but the holy spirit seems to work invitation in, in, in act. The holy spirit seems to say, I'm going here. I'd love it. If you came with me, 

[00:25:12] John: Yeah, for sure. I, I, I think that's beautifully there and, and that, that sense of back to the John language, Johanna language, the Perle, the one who draws beside us, the one who comes beside us, he's called beside us. He walks with us. And, and though you get this incredible introduction of the empowerment of the. 

[00:25:33] This is not the holy spirit grabbing us like some sort of rag doll and dragon us around the floor, but this is the holy spirit seeking to call us to partnership with him in the same way that he led Jesus in the Luke narrative, into the wilderness in the same way that Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the spirit in the same way that Jesus does his work by. 

[00:25:58] The spirit being upon him, we're getting this invitation that this same spirit wants to partner with this community and you get this lovely little contrast of this gap of a community without. I know we're, we're careful without Jesus and without the holy spirit, relying on all that they've got. 

[00:26:18] But actually when the holy spirit comes, they're, they're at least invited to engage with these issues with the higher level of, of dynamic power, insight, and wisdom, because the holy spirit is among them. So it's a beautiful little contrasting moment. 

[00:26:33] David: Definitely. And, and I think that perhaps as we kind of draw our acts chapter one conversations to a close, that little piece that you've said there, John, I just wanna say that's what we should probably hold on and remember, because we're going to see that play out time and time and time again in this, this phenomenal book that we call acts.