Pentecost | Disruptive Presence 5

In which John and David finally arrive at Acts chapter 2. The account of the day of Pentecost has been hugely significant for the church throughout history. In this episode we explore why it being "on the day of Pentecost" is important.

Episode 58 of the Two Texts Podcast | Disruptive Presence 5

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Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021

Transcript

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[00:00:00] David: Well, John, since we since we last spoke, you seem to have gone halfway around the globe and back, but not, not to my half of the globe. You managed to go halfway around the globe and completely miss me. how are you doing? 

[00:01:03] John: true. Went in the opposite direction. So yeah. Had had two weeks in Singapore and partly ministry partly a little bit of R and R. So my wife went with me, which was marvelous which always transforms any sort of trip. So, We do together. So, and we just, we just had a wonderful time. We have great friends out there, lovely connections, some beautiful and the opportunity to teach as well as eat lots of great Singaporean and other strands of food, which was marvelous. 

[00:01:32] So, don't, don't get me started on food. I'm twice the man, I was that before I went to Singapore. So, yeah, the food was amazing. The people are fantastic and a great times, but it's great to be back and to roll again. So. 

[00:01:44] David: And, and welcome to all our listeners from Singapore, because I was, I was looking after the podcast while you were away and noticed that your presence in Singapore for, for a couple of weeks, we were, we were the top religious podcast in Singapore. So I, I, I figured that was you handed out two text cards in every restaurant you went to 

[00:02:06] John: something like that. Yeah. At the conference I was at, I just give it a bit of a plug and what was lovely, the senior pastor who was running the conference he loves it. He 

[00:02:15] David: Mm-hmm 

[00:02:15] John: he was sort of telling me a little bit for the little gap we had had when you were ill with COVID. And I said, well, we just took a little bit of a break while David recovered. And he was say, where where's the next episode?  

[00:02:25] So, yeah, it was good. Fun. It's good. Fun. 

[00:02:28] David: You're you're a social media influencer, John. That's what it is. 

[00:02:32] John: Not sure about that, but yeah, absolutely. 

[00:02:35] David: So after after a month of podcasting, we have progressed far in the story of acts and the disrupting presence of the holy spirit, that we're, we're beginning chapter two today. And perhaps in chapter two, we really do see this disrupting presence of the spirit arrives and, and actually, 

[00:02:53] John: Yeah. 
 

[00:02:53] David: starts to cause. 

[00:02:55] Some interesting stories, right from the off. So I'm gonna read acts chapter two verses one through to 13. And this will, this will sort of set the story up for us. Won't it? 

[00:03:06] John: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. This is amazing. 

[00:03:08] David: So it says this when the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly, it sounded like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house. They were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them, all of them were filled with the holy spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the spirit enabled them. 

[00:03:37] Now there were staying in Jerusalem, God fearing Jews from every nation under. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment because each one heard their own language being spoken. Utterly amazed. They asked aren't all these who are speaking Galileans how is it then that each of us hears them in our native language, IANS maids and mites residents of Mesopotamia, Judea, and Kaia Ponti and Asia friger and PFL Egypt in the parts of Libya near Cyrene. 

[00:04:14] Visitors from Rome, both Jews and converse to ju Judaism Creton in Arabs. We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues, amazed and perplexed. They asked one another. What does this mean? Somehow made fun of them and said they have had too much wine. 

[00:04:42] And so there's the 

[00:04:43] John: that. 
 

[00:04:43] David: there's the story. And there's a lot to unpack and and, and sort of, you know, wrestle within a story like that. And I think making sense of this will help us so much as we journey through act, but just right the off John, we, we notice that, that we talk about this day of Pentecost and we, and, and. 

[00:05:00] Within new Testament tradition, you hear Pentecost, you think of the fall of the, the holy spirit into the early church, but here it, it begins with when the day of Pentecost came, it feels like Pentecost is already something. Right. And and, and I think it's, this might be our sort of first place to jump in. 

[00:05:20] What do they mean by the day of Pente cos. 

[00:05:22] John: Yeah. It's I think it's a great, it's a great little hint for our listeners that when you get a. Phenomenally specific detail like that. That's, that's worth a note. So we're already jumping into something that seems to already exist. And therefore we ask questions like what already existed and does the coming of the holy spirit on a day that already existed have any significance or is that just one of those amazing quirky coincidences happens? 

[00:05:54] And of course, any serious Diving into the text, we, we, we tend to believe in coincidences so much. We sort of believe in the God incidents. It's, things are being orchestrated by God. And of course we've, we've seen already as the fulfillment of Passover, one of the great great Jewish face, Passover Jesus fulfills that he is, is the Passover. We've seen sort of Jesus hint very, very at the fulfillment of Suko, which is the sort of Tabernacles faced in John chapter seven, John chapter eight, we've already made illusion to some of that stuff our previous teaching. of the three great Jewish festivals of the year. PSAC, Suco and now chaat, which is, which is we 

[00:06:39] David: mm-hmm 

[00:06:39] John: Pentecost. This is the third illusion to this great faced and are, are the, the illusion to this third great face they should say. And so you get this sense of hold on. There's something else going on here. Of course, to the, to the Jewish of X chapter two, they wouldn't have known, this is Pentecost the idea of 50 days, it's they, would've known this as ch and this idea of, weeks it's the feast of weeks. 

[00:07:05] It's, it's the idea of. Weeks passed Passover. And the 50th day, the culmination of the seven weeks after Passover was this idea of the feast of weeks. This, this celebration of the, the wheat harvest that's alluded to a NA Torah. This idea that this is a culmination of something that a celebration of a harvest to come, which is a beautiful idea. What's really fascinating. And it may or may not have been relevant in the days of Jesus. Of course, it, it, this may have been a later development, so there's a little bit of conversation around this worth leaning into, but, but of course there is a strong Jewish tradition that speaks of the, to. Being given to Moses on Chev art. So, 

[00:07:53] David: mm-hmm 

[00:07:54] John: if those two ideas are colliding, which they may have done on the day of Pentecost, then you've got some phenomenal threads being pulled together. You've got this celebration of a harvest, this, this culmination of seven weeks after Passover and this pointing to a great harvest. And of course, when we come into the book of acts, the illusion of harvest harvest Jewish harvest, Gentile harvest, I mean, it's unmissable. 

[00:08:25] David: Hmm. 
 

[00:08:25] John: we look at the moving of the holy spirit, in the book of acts, you see him moving with among Jews among Gentiles, among Samaritans. There's a whole range of harvest idea being said there, I do love the illusion to, to. I love this, this connection that there is an illusion that, on the day that Moses received Torah and Torah became a nation shaping event for Israel. So on that cm day, hundreds of years later, the holy spirit comes and that becomes a community shipping event that becomes a, a somewhat argue a birthing event. 

[00:09:02] I, I'm not sure it's the birth of the church, but I would certainly believe it is a defining and shipping event. Where 

[00:09:10] David: Mm. 
 

[00:09:10] John: coming of the spirit is synonymous with this new community. It is a defining moment in the same where the Torah defined nation of Israel. So the coming of the spirit in many ways this new community and we see all those. ideas of Jesus being the fulfillment of Passover PSAC, the fulfillment of the, the, the, the feast of Tabernacles as it were. And now Jesus sending the holy spirit as it were. He is the fulfillment of both the Torah and the sender of the holy spirit who comes on that day. So, you get this sense of  

[00:09:47] David: mm-hmm 

[00:09:47] John: ideas colliding, but this idea of a new community now being propelled by the. Into a mission is to do with global harvest. So I think there's a lot of layers under the phrase when the day of Pentecost came and it's worth for our, our listeners to, dive into that a little bit more. Does, does that make sense in, in terms of what we knew about sort of, the background to Pentecost? 

[00:10:13] David: Well, what we know about Luke as well is that he likes to draw these sort of parallels. Doesn't he? Luke is, is stitching together his story in such a way that if there's something to highlight to help you see, oh, this is about that, then Luke's gonna do it. But he, but he does it sadly sometimes doesn't he, he does it in a way that suggests he thinks you maybe know about these sort of festival things. 

[00:10:38] So you'll draw these connections yourself.  

[00:10:41] John: Mm. 
 

[00:10:41] David: so I think that's very, very like Luke. And, and I even wonder if. Be another layer to it all the in. The way that this story is told, I find John sometimes has resonancies of the temple dedication story as well in Kings and in Chronicles. So I wonder if maybe we can unpack that if you want, but, but I feel like there is layers of. 

[00:11:07] Of fulfillment stories going on of, of, of this is that. And, you know, the, the giving of God, of, of Torah to, to his people, you know, here we get the law now in the very, you know, if, as you say, if those connections were being drawn around the time of Jesus then potentially this idea of the giving of the spirit on the same days is very, you can, you can totally imagine Luke. 

[00:11:30] Pointing that out you know, and drawing those connections for his, for his reader. But I noticed like if, if you jump over to second Chronicles seven or, or also the, the way the story's told it in first King's chapter eight, when, when Solomon dedicates the. Temple it's worth noticing. If you, if you kind of read both accounts of this, you have a room filled with cloud in this sense, the presence of the glory of the Lord and fire, right? 

[00:12:00] So you've got, you've got some sort of, you know, natural phenomena going on in the presence of fire. And this is, this is perceived as the Lord's approval and presence. 

[00:12:16] John: Yes. 
 

[00:12:16] David: His house in, in the temple. And I just wonder if Luke is intentionally drawing connections for us there to say, and now Luke, how the Luke is saying, you know, the presence of, of God is now. 

[00:12:33] With these people. I mean, and maybe that's a stretch too far, but I I've often liked to thi sit and think about how that, that works in this text. I mean, can, do you think that's 

[00:12:44] John: Oh, 
 

[00:12:45] David: where do you sort of stand on that? 

[00:12:46] John: I, I think it's definitely worth, leaning into, these are all nuances within the texture. Some things are very explicit. They're very easy to make 

[00:12:53] David: Mm. 
 

[00:12:54] John: Other things there's a sort of a, a nuance, is this, is this a nudge towards something? And of course, as we've reflected on before, in terms of Luke's trajectory, he's he starts his gospel in the temple physically, 

[00:13:10] David: Mm. Mm-hmm mm-hmm 

[00:13:10] John: ends the book of acts in the house. And of course this event, and there's a little bit of question as to where spirit fell on these. early disciples, were they in the temple precinct? 

[00:13:22] The, the implication seems to be in a place other than the temple precinct but were they had access to sort of a public domain. And if the spirit is falling in a house in an upper room, as it were, then you've got a dynamic shift place. The gospel of Luke begins with God speaking to Zacharia in the temple. 

[00:13:44] Now the book of act. Launches accelerates catalyzes with the spirit falling on a group of disciples in, a house or in a room rather than a sacred space, like the temple. Is that a deliberate idea? And of course, if we do want to have the courage to draw the illusion to the temple of Solomon, then. you do get this sort of sense of Can I use the word commissioning, commissioning this community, endorsing this community with the sorts of signs and that were present during the dedication of that temple, which was seen as a glorious thing. And, and I've heard many, many preachers in a modern context, talk about the dedication of Solomon's temple. In sort of, reverential and sober, sober terms, when you examine what's going on in this room with these disciples, the, the, the, the signs are no less dramatic and no less dynamic. And we might want to argue no less God. So there is, there is, I think there's a definite connection, David, between a nudge between a temple, which was a place. And now 

[00:14:54] David: Mm. 
 

[00:14:55] John: community, which are a people set apart by God and and, and empowered now to go into their world. So I think, I think they're beautiful ideas that they're worthy of a bit of consideration. 

[00:15:06] David: And of course in in second Chronicles, chapter seven, after the fire and the glory, the response of the people is worship. So, you know, there's, there's this sort of you know, potential illusion there with, you know, what's going on with this. This crowd and, and, and this, you know, what they're hearing is the wonders of God being declared. 

[00:15:28] So there is worship going on. I mean, I think it's worth just what seems to happen in a lot of our. Imagining of the picture of, of the day of Pentecost is actually a, a sort of sequence of thoughts that come from earlier on in chapter one. So in, in chapter one, verse 13, we find out that the apostles are all staying in an upstairs room somewhere. 

[00:15:53] Right. In acts chapter one, verse 15, we find out that not in the upper room, just at some point during this period of time, this gap between resurrection and Pentecost, Peter stood up amongst the believers. There's about 120 of them. So we know that the apostles that would be the 11 stay, have an upstairs room. 

[00:16:15] There's about 120 believers. And we generally tend to roll that. Through that therefore, when the day of Pentecost came and it says they're all together in one place, we have a particularly within Pentecostal tradition, we have all that one place is the upper room. Now my only comment is, is, is not clear at this point who they all are. 

[00:16:38] Right. You know? 

[00:16:39] John: Yep. 
 

[00:16:40] David: so is this just the apostle? So is this just, and I'm curious your thoughts on this is this just the 12 cuz now Matt thesis has joined them by this point. Is it just the 12 who are filled to the holy. Or is it the full 120, right. And one of the challenges you've got is that Luke isn't clear, as you say, Luke, isn't clear where they are. 

[00:17:00] They're just in one place and, and the holy spirit, you know, sound and all that filled the whole house. It says, but the word house can be quite vague. So there are arguments out there that say, this is happening in the temple courts, as you've said, that would. 

[00:17:14] John: Yep. 
 

[00:17:15] David: That would be quite a nice picture, as you say of the temp, almost the sort of transference of from place to people. 

[00:17:21] Or as you say, it could be happening in a room elsewhere, in which case another potential nice transfer from sort of temple to, to, to, to, to other space. I do think practically it's worth noting that. If they're in a house room somewhere, it's unlikely, there's 120 people there because a house room that could host 120 people in those days would require remarkable wealth. 

[00:17:45] Right. So yes, I'm curious in terms of just, you know, do you think it's the 11, do you think it's the 120? What do you, you know, the, you know, what do you think on that? 

[00:17:55] John: Well, well, in terms of the, the the hundred 20 or the 11, we're given a little bit of a clue in verse 14 of chapter two, Peter stood up with the 11. So it, it could be, it could be, that that's, that's just Luke bringing out 

[00:18:10] David: Mm. Mm-hmm 

[00:18:10] John: The, the 11. Who we already have 

[00:18:12] David: mm-hmm 

[00:18:13] John: with, have been filled with the spirit and therefore they stand 

[00:18:15] David: yes. 
 

[00:18:16] John: a group it were and declare this. I, I think for me, what's beautiful about this is, is the definite ambiguity. I think the 

[00:18:25] David: mm-hmm 

[00:18:25] John: that we are kept guessing as to who is there, and we're sort of kept guessing as to where it is, is leaning into this idea that actually. They're not the primary issues. so you, 

[00:18:38] David: mm-hmm yes. 

[00:18:39] John: get this sense of, is it in a temple? 

[00:18:40] Well, that would be cool. it in, is it in a room that would also be amazing? All of those ideas work. fact that Luke isn't nailing that down an address means where it happened. Isn't as vital as. Who it is happening to it's happening to community rather than to a, rather than the significance being placed on the place. And even the fact that there's ambiguity in the personalities are in the room. I think it leans into this equality when it comes to the moving of the spirit, your sons and your daughters. Well, old men, well, young men, well later on Peter says, there's this inclusive. Inclusive inclusivity of the holy spirit, this level ground 

[00:19:29] David: Mm. 
 

[00:19:30] John: spirit. 

[00:19:30] It isn't, there's not a hierarchy of, okay. The top guys, get it first. And then it trickles down. Do they, the sort of the people at the bottom wrong there is this sense in which this holy spirit has come for us all. And and of course, know, in the little passage we read, the crowd, hearing God being glorified in their own language or amazed because Gallins that are saying this. 

[00:19:55] And again, you've got this sort of lovely back in the loop. You've got this lovely marginal sort of 

[00:20:01] David: Mm. 
 

[00:20:02] John: type nuance going on there. Hold on. These are these guys. Shouldn't be able to speak all of these languages and they. So I think, I think the ambiguity around who and the ambiguity around were, I think there's a bit of a deliberate ploy within that in Luke, because Luke isn't normally a man of profound detail. 

[00:20:22] I mean, he started the passage with when the day of Pentecost came and yet when it comes to some of the detail, he's just, he seems to be deliberately, Hey, this is not as important as you maybe think it is. What's important is what is happening and who is happening. And the result of that. So, but, but they're great questions to reflect on. 

[00:20:41] I think, I think they're, they're fun, fun things to think about. 

[00:20:44] David: And of course on a very practical sense wherever they are. They, they have to be in proximity to 3000 people, at least who are going to hear this message, which I, again, I, I think, and, and of course all of these people are, this is where I generally park it up. John is that the vast majority of these people are in town because of the Pentecost festival, therefore. 

[00:21:09] John: Exactly. 

[00:21:09] David: be heading towards the temple. And so I've kind of often left. The most I can say is that they're obviously in some close proximity to the temple 

[00:21:20] John: but of course, if this is happening in the temple, the only place, the only place big enough to house this conversation would be the court of the Gentiles. 

[00:21:29] David: Mm, mm-hmm 

[00:21:30] John: So, so you've got a, if, if it's happening in the temple, you have got a gorgeous. Little subtext going on there, that, that in the very place where Jesus stood up, Cody, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, this was meant to be a house of prayer for the nations, and you've turned it into something in that very place. Now we've got the outpouring of the spirit. And you've got people from at least 15, 16 people groups or languages being understood. 

[00:21:58] You've got this global gathering of followers of the Lord in a space because the ch ought  

[00:22:06] David: Mm. 
 

[00:22:06] John: being called they're being, and, and potentially if it's in the temple, it's in the court of the Gentiles. So there's a 

[00:22:13] David: Yes. 
 

[00:22:13] John: little irony there. 

[00:22:15] David: Mm-hmm 

[00:22:16] John: it's happening there.  

[00:22:16] David: , that's, that's the, the beautiful image that's going on here. And actually, I was just reflecting as, as you were talking there that. This idea that Luke is vague perhaps on purpose to keep the focus in the right space is actually the challenge of, of Pentecost. Isn't it? That that actually is about breaking out. 

[00:22:38] It is about being beyond just, you know, one people group in one particular place. There's almost this, this idea within the story of Pentecost, that, that this is God who is at work. And and, and, you know, I, I was, I was reading. And reflecting on this about essentially that the role of the disciples and the apostles has been just to wait. 

[00:22:59] And, and it reminded me of these old, you know, the early history of Pentecostalism, their, their services when they gathered together were, were called waiting services. Used that old word. Carrying services this and so actually again, you sparked my thinking about how we don't know a lot about this, where they were, we're kind of, you know, looking at inferences, but maybe you're, you're absolutely right. 

[00:23:24] That Luke wants to keep this vague because this is God's doing. And, and God doesn't need the definition of space in place, but rather he just needs the people who are waiting for the spirit and, and perhaps that's key to understanding the message of act and all of that. 

[00:23:41] John: Yeah. And, and I think, I think the fact that this takes place when. When the city is flooded with pilgrims from all, all 

[00:23:48] David: Mm. 
 

[00:23:50] John: is not, is not a, an accident. You, you do have at the heart of this event, a dynamic missional feel a dynamic global feel. We're almost introduced, Jesus has said you'll receive the spirit. be my witnesses in Jerusalem, 

[00:24:06] David: Mm. 
 

[00:24:06] John: Samira, Anza the earth. when the holy spirit comes, we're introduced immediately to a global context where we're actually. Many people from many places of the known world are now in Jeru. And so you get this immediate globalization of this event, which is presented to us. 

[00:24:25] And I, I can't help again, think of Moses back in, Exodus when he receives Torah and a nation is forming at the bottom of that great mountain. And God wants that nation to become a kingdom of praise and a holy nation. wants them to be an example of who he is and 

[00:24:44] David: Mm. 
 

[00:24:44] John: who he is. And Moses receives Torah, he presents it to the people in the hope that the people will have this on their heart and then export this to the world. And 

[00:24:54] David: mm-hmm 

[00:24:55] John: almost the same dynamic here. Here is God by the power of the spirit. Himself into 

[00:25:01] David: Hmm. 
 

[00:25:02] John: in the hope that this community will then in turn, pour themselves into their world. And they're given an immediate opportunity do that. So you get this, this gorgeous missional, globalization of this work of the spirit, where we're immediately, the, the ambiguity points to the fact that it's not about an individual, it's about a community. There's an equality to that community. And immediately that community has a community responsibility. It's it's the, the, the emphasis here right from the beginning is not on the individual. The emphasis right from the beginning is on community receive and community to go. And in fact, one of the great patterns of the book of X is that in some of the major outpourings of the spirit throughout the book of acts, are in a community context. 

[00:25:49] And they have community impact. It's rarely is the work of the spirit localized to individual in the way that maybe we understand that in the 21st century, I think Paul is filled with the spirit next nine, that's the only sort of real reference to an individual being filled in the, with the spirit on their own. Every other reference. An individual being filled with a spirit it's in the context of community. again, look, that little nuance of Torah was given to a people in order for that people to be God's representatives on earth. that, if that is linking here, the sh art, then you've got the holy spirit being given to a people so that that people can represent God across the earth and are given an immediate chance to do that with the, with the thousands of people who are now engaging with them. 

[00:26:38] David: It it's, it's a beautiful thought. And, and actually. Again, I think a theme throughout acts of God's desire for people of God's pursuing of people. And, and there's, you know, as, as our listeners know, there's different ways to come to a text and you can come to a whole book of the Bible with a series of questions sometimes, and, and asking different questions of ask acts often. 

[00:27:05] Produce these really beautiful insights. And, and one way to look at acts, particularly for the first 10 chapters is you see this expanding desire for God to reach new communities and you see more and more communities being welcomed in, brought in is almost as if the, the agenda is and oh, and you'll never guess where else the holy spirit took us. 

[00:27:26] And, oh, you'll never believe what other barrier the holy spirit crossed. But as you say, Always happening in this sort of community context, always happening with the unexpected, always happening with this sort of disruptive sense. So we're what we're seeing here in acts two is like a mini window of what's coming. 

[00:27:45] That, that, that there, the holy spirit is gonna lead these early disciples. Governed by God's desire for people to, to, to end up with a church that looks exactly like this, a church that's full of all of this diversity and, and, and, and difference. And this is, this is grace, I suppose, at some level, isn't it? 

[00:28:05] Grace that says, you know, we, we, we talk, talk about this all through Jesus he's parables ministry in Luke's gospel, he's hinting to them. It's not gonna be about your worth. It's about God's valuing our view. And now we're really seeing that the theology of Jesus's parables, something we've talked about a lot 

[00:28:23] John: Hmm. 
 

[00:28:24] David: in two texts. 

[00:28:25] We're seeing the theology of Jesus' miracles. Another thing we've talked about a lot in two texts. You're now seeing it played out in the early church by this huge. Boundary breaking welcome of, of the early disciples. I love that John, but, but I also just, just as we sort of round out this episode, I, I notice verse 13, some however, made fun of them and said they've had. 

[00:28:50] Too much wine. And I just can almost read that as a little hint, even in this beautiful story at the start. This is not going to be plain sailing, not, you know, some people can be in the presence of God doing something and not think it's God's work. And that's a little bit of a theme in X as well as they're breaking these boundaries. 

[00:29:11] There's opposition. 

[00:29:12] John: Indeed, misunderstanding God coming in forms and in ways that they neither expected and in some cases, don't want and struggle with. isn't that the story that we've been engaging of in the person of Jesus, he came to his own. They didn't recognize him, even the mess. We struggle to be recognized. 

[00:29:34] Now the work of the spirit some will embrace that work. Some will run from that work and others will be at times confused and uncertain about that work. But what is for sure, the book of X says the holy spirit has come, work has begun. And is going to continue to work, whether humans are comfortable with that or not. Yeah. 

[00:30:00] David: And John with having, having had that whole conversation, there's still this whole question of fire. Wind and other languages. So maybe that's what we talk about in our next episode. 

[00:30:15] John: absolutely. Let's do that. Let's do that.