This is That | Disruptive Presence 8

In which John and David dive into Peter's quote from the prophet Joel. Does Peter just use this quote because it mentions the Holy Spirit, or is it that what Joel speaks of Peter sees happening around him. Is Pentecost part of the wholeness that God imagines for the world?

Episode 61 of the Two Texts Podcast | Disruptive Presence 8

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Transcript

Transcript Autogenerated by Descript.com
 

[00:00:00] David: So John, do we want to dig a little deeper into Peter's sermon in act chapter two? we gave the, we gave the sort of 10,000 meter overview in our last episode, now let's check his sources and and explore the bits of the old Testament that he uses. 

[00:01:08] John: Indeed. Yes. Because it, it's, it's funny when you look at his sermon, there, there are these, quite serious quotations from the biblical text and then his explanations or lead up to those quotes in between. And his, his sort of in between bits are, are fairly, Me, but he makes some serious points off the back of some of the old Testament passages he uses. 

[00:01:34] And of course, what seems to be interesting is he, he uses these passages in slightly different ways. He seems to, he seems to have a, an interesting little hermaneutic around some of that. So, but makes a very powerful point from the TaNaK and As far as I can say, sort of directly quotes to knock at least three times and probably indirectly, there's a couple of other little nuances and quotes in there that are worthy of consideration. 

[00:01:57] So it's a serious, it's a serious sermon in terms of to knock weight that he puts on that. 

[00:02:03] David: And and so, so let's give this some analysis in this episode. And I often feel, I often like to think about. Peter this young fisherman, from Nazareth and used to, thinking he was gonna spend his life floating around to see a Galilee looking for fish. 

[00:02:18] And here we are 2000 years later analyzing his rhetoric of his first sermon. I was so glad that nobody has a recording of my first sermon. That's all I can say. 

[00:02:31] John: too. Me too. Me too. Absolutely. Absolutely. 

[00:02:35] David: of course may undo everything we said in the last episode, which was that actually what's really important is, is whether it talked about Jesus or not. But 

[00:02:43] John: I did. 

[00:02:44] David: so David, why don't I read the first quotation that Peter coach, which is kind of the biggest one, isn't it. 

[00:02:50] And perhaps the one that we most remember when we think about Peter's sermon. So, so I'll read this for us just now, John, and then let's let's explore, why Peter jumped straight to the prophet jewel to sort of say this is, is that. 

[00:03:06] John: Hmm. 
 

[00:03:07] David: So in X chapter two, verse 17 we hear Peter quoting directly from Joel in the last days. 

[00:03:13] It will be God declares that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy. And your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams. Even upon my slaves, both men and women. In those days, I will pour out my spirit and they shall prophesy and I will show importance in the heaven above and signs on the earth below blood and fire and smokey mist. 

[00:03:44] The sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the Lord's great and glorious. Then everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. So that's that first that's that first piece? Isn't it. 

[00:04:00] John: Yeah. And I, and I, I, I love Peter's sort of introduction. This is that. I mean, it's quite literally how it, how it reads, isn't it in the text. This is that. So he's, he's making a direct connection to what they are observing in this outpouring of the spirit, speak people speaking in different languages, the, the apparent perhaps dynamic. 

[00:04:25] Expressions and behaviors, and maybe even some behaviors that have caused some people in the crowd to think, hold on, these boys have already been in the pub having a few drinks, so which is, is really just allows you to see that there's some serious stuff going on there, but I love this. 

[00:04:38] Peter is absolutely confident that what you're seeing. Has been spoken of by the prophet jewel and he makes the connection and, and, and one of the interesting things that have observed is he doesn't, he doesn't attempt to explain the prophecy. 

[00:04:56] David: mm-hmm 

[00:04:57] John: just says, this is that. It's interesting. I, I think when we get to the other text, the Sams, when he, it gives wee bit more explanation, he leans in a little bit more. 

[00:05:05] He almost gives a wee bit of an exposition when it comes to the jewel text. He sort of doesn't he just says, this is that. 

[00:05:12] David: As if he thinks it's sort of, self-explanatory almost, 

[00:05:15] John: absolutely. Absolutely. And or, or that, that perhaps in an attempt to explain some of the detail of Jewel's text that. It will lead people away from the mean point, which is the outpouring of the spirit within these dynamic eschatological events that are happening right in front of their eyes. 

[00:05:33] But it's, it is, it is fascinating. I mean, when you look at the original jewel Prophecy it, it begins with afterwards. So, so that sort of the context of the, of the dual prophecy is that, you, you've got a people that are, are coming out of a, of a, a massive period of being ravaged and difficulty and hardship. 

[00:05:52] And there's this restoration off the back of, of repentance and, and sort of the day of the Lord coming. And Peter is, is grabbing that idea and saying, okay, the, we are now in these last days, this is, this is now what dual prophesy would happen is now beginning. We are, we are experiencing and seeing this restoration. 

[00:06:23] Through the power of the spirit a restoration would come to Israel and, and to the wider context. And he seems to be seeing this is really linking it to the Dawn of, of almost the mess age. This is, this is now the working of Messiah. In a new community empowered by the holy spirit. This is that. 

[00:06:43] So it, it is really fascinating. He doesn't make any attempt to explain. He just makes the two things connected, which, which should help us a little bit, cuz there's some stuff in that prophecy, which are hard. It's hard to explain. And the fact that Peter doesn't explain it means, well, it sometimes suggests to me that maybe I don't need to worry about explain. 

[00:07:04] All he's interested in is making some serious connections to the outpouring of the spirit promised by Joel and what's happening right now. And the fact that this is an indicator that we are in the last days, the days of Messiah and the days of this new community, an inclusive and dynamic community. 

[00:07:23] That makes sense. 

[00:07:24] David: to totally, totally makes sense. And, and I even love that little comment of sometimes with prophetic literature. We need to be careful of trying to over interpret it. The, if, if you start trying to figure out where are the signs of blood fire and smokey mist, it often gets into the, the realm of the ridiculous. 

[00:07:42] If you're not, if you're not careful. And, and we've all heard that happen. I'm sure many of us have heard sermons where somebody's tried to tie a piece of prophecy down to a very particular moment. And in doing so manages to miss the point there's two things that I see happen. In the new Testament when it comes to quoting the old Testament. 

[00:07:59] And I'm curious which one you think's happening here. So we've talked in two texts before, for example, about Jesus's quotation from Isaiah where he stops short before the part about vengeance and, and, and quite clearly the listeners pick up on the fact that, oh, you stopped short there're on purpose. 

[00:08:18] And it's like that. That's that's quite controversial. There are other so there's times where we need to pay attention to where the tax stop. Because it's intentional. There are other times, I think when the old Testament is quoted where the quotation serves almost as a em for the rest of the text. 

[00:08:37] So for example, Jesus makes the comment once the poor you'll always have amongst you. Right. Which has been used by many people to say, yeah, well, don't worry so much about doing justice and works for the poor, but of course, I think when Jesus says that he's expecting you to know the rest of the quotation, which is the, the poor will always have amongst you, so live with an open hand amongst them. 

[00:08:57] Right. And so, so Jesus is actually showing us to point back to the text and, and I think what Peter's doing in. Two by quoting this part of Joel two is the second approach that don't look at all, all the stuff he's not quoted is there for, to be ignored. Actually, I think Peter is reminding them, not just of the section of Joel two, perhaps even all of Joel, but definitely the rest of chapter. 

[00:09:25] Two of Joel, where the language is, is. Restoration and deliverance and God doing something new amongst people and people who felt, abandoned or now told to not be abandoned. So, I mean, I'm, I'm curious if you agree with me on that, but I, I can't help, but see what Jesus is doing, not just as a fulfillment of the bit that Peter quotes, but actually that whole passage of Joel 

[00:09:53] John: Absolutely. I, I, I would go with that and, and I think that helps you actually. Hold intention. Some of the imagery within the direct quote from Peter that he doesn't seem to explain because it's the trajectory of the passage. It's the drive and context of. The the day of the Lord that will bring restoration healing return increase to people that have been ravaged by this, this literally, or metaphorically, this plague of locus that has ravaged their world. 

[00:10:28] And, and there's a promise of restoration within that. And I think if. Understand the quote within that wider context, then Peter is positioning the outpouring of the spirit as part of that. Well, not just part of, I would say essential part of that rest, Ari of process that, that, that something is going is about to be restored. 

[00:10:53] Can I say to. 

[00:10:54] David: Mm. Mm-hmm 

[00:10:56] John: the Israel of God, something is about to be restored. If they will open up their hearts, something will come to them that can restore years that have been ravaged. So remember we are, we are in, in the end of the gospels moving into in our Bible, the book of acts and, and that, that period. 

[00:11:16] Between the end of the Tana, the end of the old Testament in our Bible, Malachi looking forward to Messiah or in the Jewish Bible Chronicles and in, and in this hope of Matthew, you've had this 400 year period of drought of 

[00:11:33] David: yeah. 
 

[00:11:34] John: virtual Ravage context. I mean, a, a nation that has been eaten by the locus. 

[00:11:41] And, and I think this side pouring of the spirit is a sign of a potential restorative role of the spirit to them. And if you look at what, what really helps here I is, if you look at Peter's final quote from Joel, he says, and everyone who calls on enable Lord will be saved. If you go to Joel on this, it goes on to say for on Mount Zion and in Jeru. 

[00:12:03] There will be deliverance as the Lord has said among the survivors whom the Lord calls. So you get this beautiful idea that it's not just those who call on the name of the Lord, but the lo the ones the Lord is calling and, and where's that salvation process, where's that restored to process located, but in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, where's this happening, it's happening right at the epicenter of that, that moment. 

[00:12:28] So I think that there's a gorgeous illusion. To the geographic position of this outpouring of the spirit and its potential impact. And that's not lost in anyone who knows the jewel prophecy that this is located in Mount Sinai. 

[00:12:43] David: everybody 

[00:12:45] John: Yeah. 
 

[00:12:45] David: It's and I think it's always, oh, I wanna know we say this a lot, but it's always important to realize how literate. The average Jewish person, the first century was to these texts. So, this is and even if you push before it though, it's interesting, John, and we'll talk about this in our next episode, but the response of the people. 

[00:13:06] Right. Well, what should we do then? And Peter's response is, well, you have, have to repent, , you have to turn around. Right. Which is really interesting. Again, if, if you've got your text open in Joel, chapter two, look at the lead in to. The bit that Peter quotes. So what comes before? The bit that Peter quotes in J in Joel, two 12, even now declares the Lord return to me, the beautiful Hebrew word, sh so turn to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning, render your heart, not your garments and shoo sh returned to the Lord. 

[00:13:41] Your God for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love. And he rele from sending Callam. Who knows. And this, I love this text and, and some of the English translations obscure this slightly, but Joel then says, who knows? He may turn and relent and leave behind a blessing, but in the Hebrew, it's that word? 

[00:14:00] Ch again, isn't it. So, so, so, so the prophet says. Listen, shoo to God, return to God, people like, shoo to the Lord, you're God, because who knows he may shoo and, and, and turn to us, which of course now we're beginning to see, oh, this is exactly what he does. But again, notice then. What is the response to God's returning, God's turning around towards us is to blow the trumpet in Zion, declare a holy fast call, a sacred assembly, consecrate the people, right? 

[00:14:31] So the people say to Peter, what should we do? Peter says sh right. Well, he doesn't, I mean, we don't know what he says. Exactly. Cuz we are doing a Greek translation, but he uses the Greek word for turnaround. So. And baptize yourself a consecration, so I think the whole thing is being framed by this prophetic almost narrative. 

[00:14:52] It it's almost like Joel is being read as the guidebook as to how we stay within what God is doing in this space. You, you see what I'm saying? 

[00:15:00] John: Oh, so beautiful. Absolutely. And in fact, coincidentally, and sort of sideways on this slightly, I don't wanna go somewhere, but don't want to go, but, but I've been doing a little bit of work in the book of Jonah and that little passage you've just read from Joel, if you set that on top of the end of chapter three and the beginning of chapter four of Jonah, it is almost identical. So the king says the king of none says, who knows he. That God may relent. Now the NIV translates at relent, but the Hebrew is sh in the calm. So it's, it's actually that, that God will turn and repent and you get this exactly, exactly the same word. And what does God do? God rele, God turns, he turns and he changes his mind. 

[00:15:51] So you get this gorgeous idea. And my little reflection on Jonah was, I talked about the God who changed his mind, the cane changed his mind. The people changed their mind. God changed his mind. The only person not changing his mind at bugga. Jon is Jonah. But, but you get, but, but there is, there is a lot of sideways moved. 

[00:16:08] There is a parallel here. There is this. Understanding that actually, even though Peter is speaking to the people of God, They must shoo, they must turn. They must repent, not come. They, they, they must not just change their direction, but change their behavior towards God. And Peter is saying through Joel, if you will do that, then God, what you see before you all who call on the Naval Lord will be saved. 

[00:16:41] Why? Because he's the God doing the. He's he's calling out of Zion. He's calling out of Jerusalem. He's calling the people and in the same way that that language is used in a Gentile context. And Jonah Joel picks up exactly the same language within the context of God's own people. And I think it is hard not to see that language in, in Peter sermon. 

[00:17:05] This idea of turn. Repent. And if you turn and repent, God, the God who is calling you will do something powerful among you because this is for all of you. 

[00:17:22] David: I mean, let's, let's keep chasing the, the rabbit hole. know, I was real love that you brought us to Jonah and I so want us to do a Jonah series for two texts at some point as, as well. But, but um, 

[00:17:33] John: that. 
 

[00:17:34] David: Let me make a confession. I don't even know if this is a good confession and I really, I mean, please hear this in the, in the, in the sense that, I mean, it, I, I know that we, there can be different views on this, but I taught a sermon once on Jeremiah, where in Jeremiah, the word sh is very important, this idea. 

[00:17:50] And at one point he has this This idea of sh SHA vote returning you will, you will turn. And I made a throwaway comment in a sermon once when I was teaching on this, that I said, you see all these people out there looking for sort of wacky ideas for tattoos. And I said, if you want a good tattoo, what about sh SHA vote? 

[00:18:10] Right. And. Somebody went and did it it turned up a few weeks later and somebody said to me, I loved your sermon so much. I now have this tattoo . And so, but, but notice what happens in Jeremiah, which I think is beautiful is Jeremiah is instructed to go buy a field in occupied territory. And, and why do you buy a field in a place that's not safe to live, but it's a symbol of God saying we will return here. 

[00:18:35] And, and so this whole narrative of scripture. Push towards this idea of shoe of returning, we will return. And, and I can't help then, but say, if I was to do a, a, a pop quiz for our listeners and say, Think of a famous parable of Jesus. I think it's 50 50 that you're gonna say the good Samaritan or the prodigal son, and, and, and I think maybe even more we tweak towards the prodigal son. 

[00:19:04] And what is the story of the prodigal son? It's a story about returning, right? So, so this idea of returning is. You, you, we may have stumbled across, one of the core themes of the whole Bible in, in this sort of setting. And so, so Peter quoting Joel, a text about returning notice, what does God say? 

[00:19:26] The luckiest have taken everything from you, but in, in Joel chapter two, he says, but I will return. 

[00:19:33] John: Mm, 
 

[00:19:33] David: I will restore to you what the, what the look is have eaten. Like this is, this is the story of scripture. Now we we're in and into isn't it about, about, we will return to God and God will return to us. 

[00:19:44] And I don't know. God, it's just gorgeous. Isn't it? it's 

[00:19:48] John: It it is. And the, and the fact that Peter is linking this dynamic restorative process to the outpouring of the spirit. 

[00:19:58] David: Hm. 
 

[00:19:59] John: So, so this is important for Israel. This is, this is not just important now for this new church. This is, this is an important marker for Israel. That, that actually Peter is saying, Joel, when he spoke all of those years ago was talking about. 

[00:20:14] David: mm-hmm 

[00:20:14] John: what he was talking about. He, he, he, wasn't talking about just getting your land back. He, wasn't just talking about, about driving out the Genta. He was talking about this. So this is a huge moment in terms of an understanding of a prophetic scripture, that would've been much loved with the idea of God restoring the fortunes of the people back again. 

[00:20:36] And we have already. In our previous podcast. Jesus, can I say this carefully reinterpret or interpret through the lens of Messiah, Isaiah 61, a a great passage about returning and restoration. And he now brings an interpretation which isn't necessarily liked, but one which. Inclusive and dynamic here's Peter, can I suggest as the out the spirit is out poured on Jesus, he transforms the reading of Isaiah 61. 

[00:21:10] Here's now Peter, as the spirit is outpoured on him. He transforms the reading of Joel two, and you're getting two dynamic passages that the pilgrims of Shah alt would've absolutely understood in a certain way. Being reinterpreted they're being connected. This is that Peter says, this is that. And I, I can't, I, I know I've, I've repeated that literalism over and over again, but it is such a dynamic statement cuz Peter is trying to make sure you do not miss this. 

[00:21:41] This is not like that. This is that. And in the same way that Jesus transforms the reading of his I 60. And other magnificent IIC passages get transformed through the lens of the resurrected Jesus. So now jewel two is getting transformed by this event in Pentecost connecting the restoration of God's people. 

[00:22:02] Through the power of the spirit. So I it's just, so it's a much bigger event, modern, modern Christians, modern Pente causal, can just see this, oh, this is like, this is just explaining the baptism in the holy spirit. Right. And in one level, of course it is. But another level, this is part of a massive. 

[00:22:19] Eschatological conversation. This is part of something absolutely huge for the purposes of God and the people of God. And God wants to call his people Israel into this restorative process and allow them to experience a turning back. 

[00:22:38] David: There's a beautiful moment in Joel where, well, there's an ugly moment in Joel at the start where he talks about , the different levels of locus that have brought destruction. The great locus came and then the young Lucas came and then the other locus came and then the swarm of lo the swarming locus came and then Joel, 2 25. 

[00:22:56] I, I love how it all gets inverted. Right? . In the NIV, it says, I will repay you for the years the locus have eaten. And then it lists them the great locus, the young locus, the other locus, the locus swarm. But, but what I, I noticed, and I love this is that the text, I will repay you the word that we translate repay. 

[00:23:16] The, the, the Hebrews. And I will. Shalom mu I will, I will make it complete or we often know the word of peace, but wholeness. 

[00:23:25] So notice again, this really speaks to the point that you were making just then this is not just Peter saying, oh, I think this has something to do with the holy spirit. Therefore I'll quote this text. I think what Peter's doing here is saying what we've just seen is part of God's restoration of the world. 

[00:23:41] So I'm now going to jump to a text. And once it's because it says I'll pour out my spirit. But because that text is part of a bigger narrative about how God is, is bringing wholeness back to everything, the brokenness of Eden is being put back together. And what you've just seen here in this speaking of tongues is evidence that God is doing that. 

[00:24:04] And I think it's a phenomenal message. Little thing I wanna mention as well, John quickly, cuz I think it's actually quite significant is notice in verse 17, your sons and your daughters shall prophesy. 

[00:24:16] And then in verse 18, even upon my slaves, both men and women now quick point, a lot of modern translations are doing this thing right now where. Whenever the word a Delphy, which, which literally means brothers which is super common in the new Testament, it's translated as brothers and sisters. 

[00:24:34] Right. And, I actually agree with that because I think it means family and community, but, but there is a tendency within the new Testament to be. And I think it's a product of its time at that level. 

[00:24:44] That, to just address a crowd of people as brothers it's, we would say now its is a bit sexist. Right. So the translators are right, I think to translate as brothers and sisters, because that is ultimately what's. Said it interests me that when you come to this text in Joel, the way Peter quotes it, and the way it's represented in Joel itself, that when you see sons and daughters here and men and women here, this is not a translator doing this. 

[00:25:07] This is the explicit language of Joel at the very core of God's restorative prophecy, It isn't sexist. Right? It's a, it absolutely identifies yep. All of us. Right. And, and I just think there's something really powerful about that,  

[00:25:23] it's. Let me say it like this. So often you hear people saying, oh, the church. Current thing about the equality of men and women is just a modern fascination to try and be in touch with modern culture. And here we are reading a thousands of year old Hebrew prophetic text wherein the word of the Lord is sons and daughters, male and female. 

[00:25:48] And I, I just don't wanna miss that because I think that's really, I. 

[00:25:52] John: Totally. And, and of course, if our, our listeners have been following us at all, in terms of the, the conversation around Jesus, it's an unmissable trajectory. I mean, it's just, so if, if you are following the Jesus of the gospels and then you hear this explicit prophecy from Joel, You shouldn't be shocked. 

[00:26:11] You shouldn't, this, this feels, this sounds like, oh yeah, of course. Of course the holy spirit is coming on sons and daughters. Of course the holy spirit is coming on male and female servants or a little trans, they might be slaves, but the slaves of the Lord, the, the, the idea of the, this are the AVOD of, of yawe. 

[00:26:29] So, so we are, we, are, we. There's no exemption here. This is a completely inclusive. And of course isn't that part of the restorative conversation, because part of the thing that got broken in Eden was the way male and female fractured. And in fact, someone quoted this to me recently, well, doesn't the Bible say that men will rule over women and I had to point out to them. Yeah. But that's not a normative command. That's a direct result of the brokenness of sin. God says, here's, what's going to happen. As a result of sin, weeds will come as a result of sin P and childre, as a result of sin, man will rule over women. 

[00:27:10] But if you look at pre-fall. None of that idea was resident there's no headship or there's no inferior superior there's partnership. There's together. There's there's side by side in all of this. When sin comes that side by side of male and female gets completely fractured. And isn't it interesting. The first thing that the man and the woman do is run not only run from the presence of God, but cover up, please forgive me listeners, but cover up their genitalia. 

[00:27:38] They literally make aprons for themselves. They, they cover up their maleness. Femaleness their distinctiveness when actually God always intended for that distinctiveness to not only be seen and understood and appreciated, but to be celebrated. And as it were enjoyed in the context of partnership. And togetherness. 

[00:28:00] And of course, sin fractured that in the outpouring of the spirit, you have a massive link to this idea that not only is the holy spirit coming to empower believers to go and reach the world. But the holy spirit is coming to restore something of the brokenness of sin that has fractured society and fractured humanity. 

[00:28:20] And one of the primary ways that's been fractured is with male and. isn't it. Isn't it incredible that that is a repeated idea. It's not it's it's twice. You get the idea of maleness and femaleness experiencing the power of the spirit in this prophecy. And that cannot be a coincidence. I think that is a definite restorative conversation that, that the holy spirit wants to drive forward. 

[00:28:44] David: that's why I, I like the reference in Joel, 2 25, just prior to Peter's quotation. I will Shalom you. The years, the locus of Eden. So, so Shalom's is the opposite of brokenness. I think this prophetic vision is always that all the brokenness of. Gets restored. All of the brokenness Eden is put back together again. 

[00:29:04] So I love exactly what you're saying there, because that's, that's what resonates in me that one of the brokenness is of Eden is the brokenness between male and female, that too will find Shalom. And it gets explicitly name checked in, in Peter's in, in Peter's quote. And I think it, it saddens me then how often the biblical reference to look how broken it is, men now rule over women and, and we take that as a directive for what the church should look like and not realizing we've just taken an effective sin and said, this is what we will now. Try and defend. I mean, and, and actually that, as we jump into acts, you will realize how often acts is teaching us to be aware of that exact problem of defending what you think is good, but is actually not right. 

[00:29:53] And 
 

[00:29:53] John: Absolutely. 

[00:29:55] David: goodness, what a text, John 

[00:29:57] John: Oh, it's amazing. And, and, and we only got to his first to not quote, we, we haven't got to the others yet, so we're gonna have to roll that over to another podcast. Our, our, our, our listeners are gonna go we're, we're gonna be like in the next 20 years in the book of acts the way this is going. So, there we are incredible. 

[00:30:12]