Sacred Space in Surprising Places | Disruptive Presence 34

In which John and especially David get very excited about the interweaving of texts in the story of the Ethiopian. David apologizes to John and all our listeners for having a very public meltdown relating to the biblical texts framing this story! But we also want you to know that this is a genuinely phenomenal bit of the Bible

Episode 91 of the Two Texts Podcast | Disruptive Presence 34

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Transcript

 Transcript Autogenerated by Descript.com

[00:00:00] David: Well, John, I dunno about you, but I got probably a, a little of all the emotions in our last episode of the Ethiopian Euch. I went from I, I don't know if listeners heard it or not. I tried my best to keep my, my stoic British approach to things. 

[00:01:05] But when I was reading AX chapter, the last section of Acts, chapter eight, I found myself getting choked up while reading it. But then, end of the podcast. I was frustrated that I chose to sit for this podcast cuz I wanted to be standing up just super excited about what God was doing through the Holy Spirit in this story. 

[00:01:24] So I'm still pumped about it. 

[00:01:26] John: So am I. So am I. I, I found it. Again, I don't know if our, our listeners picked it up, but certainly as you were reading, , I became very stirred emotionally whether that was something the Holy Spirit was doing across the glory of the internet. And then when we reached into some of the stuff, especially when we started to sort of nudge around the Isaiah stuff and. 

[00:01:47] The significance of these amazing words that Jesus connected to the church connects to, and now this wonderful African connects to I I I was overwhelmed. I, I really did feel, oh my goodness, this is a sacred, a bit of a sacred moment here. So yeah, we, we, we hope that came across and, and I hope it, it, it affirms and confirms to our listeners that. 

[00:02:10] This is not just a sort of an intellectual practice for us. We, we literally love these stories. We love the word of God, and we love the life that these stories both talk about. And, and, and for me personally, they contend I, I, I do believe the scriptures are breathed by God and that they are useful for teaching rebuking, correcting and training and righteousness so that, Men and women of God can be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 

[00:02:38] So for me, I, that, that was a great example of, of the word. Like the life of the word, literally just, it felt like it was coming alive in our conversation again. And I like you, David, and maybe some of our listeners, I have read that passage gazillions of times, and yet you come to it afresh and oh my goodness, look what the Holy Spirit is doing. 

[00:03:01] Just, just magnificent. So yes, I, I think we've just about recovered. 

[00:03:06] David: So let's jump straight back in and. 

[00:03:08] John: on. 
 

[00:03:09] David: If you've not listened to the first episode about the Ethiopian Euch, probably go and listen to that because that will help you see where we're coming from. Also, we read the text in that episode. So there's a thing I just noticed, John, that I, I maybe just as a, a brief comment, but I, I noticed the, the language Of, of the angels call to Philip. 

[00:03:33] Right. Go south on the road. The one that is a desert. Right. And I think some translations like the Desert Road or the Wilderness Road and, and and I and of course the, the, the Remos, the, the, the wilderness place, the desert place, the, the, the, the Exodus place the, and, and I thought it was interesting. going. So much of the story is always about getting to Jerusalem, right? Everybody has to get to Jerusalem. The Israelis are in the desert, and they're getting away from the desert and into Jerusalem, and then, and Luke I think, picks up on this. We're all trying to get to Jerusalem, trying to get to Jerusalem, and then finally, just before Jesus' ascension, you get Jesus saying, and now you need to go 

[00:04:18] Right? 
 

[00:04:18] John: Mm 
 

[00:04:19] David: And I just love that little throwaway comment that Luke wants to specify or this is the desert road and, and maybe I'm seeing too much in it, but the fact that he chooses to specify it, assuming he's not just simply wanting to make a map for you, feels to me like Luke's wanting to just draw your attention to the fact that this is happening in the desert. 

[00:04:42] John: Mm. 
 

[00:04:43] David: I I, is it a sort of, almost not, the place that we were trying to get away from so much of our history is now the place that the Holy Spirit is moving into. And I think of all those Isaiah references of the desert and the Wilderness Place becoming an oasis.  

[00:05:00] John: I, I think that's a, a beautiful reflection. And I think it is both the idea of direction of travel. I think we reflected on that last time. There was a definite idea there, but also this sense of, and, and we've reflected on this before, moving away. A place being significant to the significance of people again, and the fact that you've got a Gentile on a desert road. 

[00:05:34] I mean, that's gotta be a, that's gotta be, I can't be a sort of a, just an accidental collision. So the fact that you've got a Gentile, so, so again, our, our listeners will understand our language when we say this an excluded person, a a un gentile, sort of doubly excluded in some ways to some level. So you've got a gentile, a eunuch who's excluded in a deserted. 

[00:06:02] In a place without people, in a place that you would normally want to get away from, and yet you're the Holy Spirit is at work. The Holy Spirit is at work with the sort of people and then the sort of places that normally wouldn't attract us and we wouldn't normally go. And I think this is again, whether I'd overcook in it and we wouldn't wanna necessarily build our house on it, but it is, it cannot be ignore. 

[00:06:28] Yes, it cannot be ignored. I think there's a programmatic idea here. I think we are being encouraged to go to the desert places, to go to the excluded places, to go to the people sitting on the margins, to go to those who may find it difficult to make their way to the secret place, or may even feel they are not accept. 

[00:06:56] In a sacred place, but if the sacred community go to them, then suddenly we make sacred spaces in desert places. 

[00:07:07] And, and I think that's the es the, again, the eic reference that the, the desert blooms, the desert comes to. I, I remember many years ago visiting Israel and I went down to the desert region in the South, and I stayed in a kubutz called Kubutz ak. 

[00:07:22] And I have a picture. It, it, it's not a digital picture. So it was pre-digital cameras, David, and I've got a picture and an old photo album of literally where the, the desert stopped and the grass began. This community al mug had turned literally the desert into a garden. It's just absolutely. In fact, they, they grew fruit for Marks and Spencers in London. 

[00:07:48] It was literally picked and transported the Tel Aviv and Flo London. Incredible experience. And I saw on a literal level that here's a human community turning desert. To garden. I think in the book ofx here, we're seeing the Holy Spirit turning desert to garden. He, this man has left. In fact, he hasn't even been able to get into the sacred space because he's a eich. 

[00:08:10] But now on his chariot, now on a desert road, a sacred space has created and a place of desertion and in a place that historically we move away from not to. 

[00:08:23] David: mm. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:08:24] John: I, I absolutely think that idea rocks there, but I'm, I'm there with you. I'm on your shoulder on that. 

[00:08:29] David: And, and there's there's one, there's one writer. And I'm going to do no no justice at all. So I apologize in advance but her first name is Gloria and it's Anza doa I, I think is how it's pronounced and she talks. Borderland moments, right? She says, where this is how, how it's sort of explained. She says, where people of profound difference enter a new possibility of life together in a new space and a new identity. And so the space of the desert, which we think we want to try and get away from, becomes the space for the Holy Spirit to, to, to, to work. 

[00:09:06] And, and, and I think, and we've said this in the last episode, but there's this. Plot a foot by the Holy Spirit that that I, one commentator talks about the exquisite timing of this. I like the idea of the language of plot. You've talked about it. Philip's running , the Holy Spirit's going leave the revival in Head South. 

[00:09:27] Meanwhile, at some point, in the past, somebody's ordered a text of Isaiah to be scribed that that is a very long process. So this story started a long time ago that the Holy Spirit was like, and then somebody has to go to Jerusalem and get this scroll, and the Euch gets sent. I mean, we're kind of filling in huge gaps. 

[00:09:48] All of this to end up at the moment that Philip intersects him. as he's reading. And this is a kinda brief recap, I suppose, of what we did in the last episode, but then Phillip. , and this is the amazing thing, is, at one level we realize that, that, that this story only happens if God wants this Ethiopian, right? 

[00:10:10] And so, so like there at some level is all of Paul's theology, Luke's great teacher, all of Paul's theology of equality coming on that Luke is telling this story. God wants this man, right? and and, and Philip therefore arrives and I love. That he arrives. And I, I can, I'm almost trying to visualize, and I'm almost already hearing things that you might say, John, so I'm gonna I want to hear you say them, but notice how Philip opens it with a question. Do you understand what he's reading? Philip doesn't roll his way in as the great colonizing brilliant. I am gonna tell you a here, he asks a question, 

[00:10:51] John: It's beautiful. It's beautiful. And, and again, isn't that, isn't that so such a glorious echo of Jesus himself, who I think in the gospels ask over 300 questions, the God of creation, his first recorded comment to humans is a question. I, I, you and I were reflecting in a different conversation that, that the first record. 

[00:11:14] A comment of Jesus and the Gospel of John as a question, what seek you? It's, and, and questions certainly in the way that the Lord asks them are always invitations. They're, they're invitations to respond. It's, it's, it's, it's calling us deeper into something. And I love Philip's humility here. I love the vulner. 

[00:11:34] It, it to me, again, I I I, our view, our listeners will, will be sick of me saying this, but I I, I just hear echoes everywhere of other conversations. So, when Jesus meets the woman at the well and he starts, can I have a drink? Could, could you ha there, there's a vulnerability there that invites the woman, she's either gotta go, right, let's, let's give you a drink or, or tell you to get lost. 

[00:11:57] Right? So it's forcing her now to make the decision. It's the same. Do you understand? Do, do you understand what you're reading? And, and of course you get this glorious response. Well, well, he, he says, how can I, unless someone explains it to me, and I, I find, I dunno, I, I can blubbering again. I, I just find that, wow. 

[00:12:21] It's just, I, I need someone to explain it. And, and just as a little aside, I, I, I think a lot of people, can I say this carefully, are not, are not rejecting Jesus. I think a lot of people, Jesus has never been explained to them. I, I, I really do. I really do. I, I think there's a lot of people out there in our world, they're not necessarily saying, well, I, I don't believe in Jesus. 

[00:12:45] I hate Jesus. I don't wanna, I think there's a lot of people just, if Jesus was explained, I, I think their hearts might open to Jesus in the same way that this Ethiopian Unix heart opened. And I love the fact that this man wants it explained. Please explain to me who this prophet is speaking about as he reads the fourth great servant song. 

[00:13:11] So it, it's a gorgeous moment, and I, and I do find it, I do find it beautiful as a e, even as. An encouragement to us in our own humility of how we carry Jesus to the world. 

[00:13:25] David: Mm 
 

[00:13:26] John: Uh, I love your expression, don't roll in, but, but invite them in. And, and I see Philip doing that in just the most beautiful way. 

[00:13:34] And he's, and he's patient and he's tender with this man, even though he's just like walked the guts of a hundred miles to. 

[00:13:41] David: I used the term humility, John, and I think that's actually huge. Right? And cuz I think there's stuff in this I'm just channeling someone else's work here, but it, it, it's really influenced me that you, anyone that's been listening to our 34 episodes so far will know that I have, I've engaged quite commonly with Willie James Jennings work on Acts and Jennings is controversial. 

[00:14:07] If anyone's gone out and bought his commentary, they'll have found, there's definitely bits in that commentary that I, I think everyone will be challenged by. Right. And. . And I would say often I say this to my congregation, book recommendations are not so that you agree with everything you read, but if it stirs something in you and causes you to think, then that is a good thing. 

[00:14:26] But, but I then, as a result of reading his book and being influenced by, I actually, he was in town, so I went to hear him give a lecture and he said something and it came back to me. And, and it's why I really loved what you said about humility, he said, It's one of the problems that has happened within Western Christianity is we've, we've become so aligned with the, the colonization program of the world where we as Western Europeans went around the world as the experts and we turned up places and said, we are not here to learn from you. 

[00:15:03] We are here to tell you how to do it. And one of the reasons that so many. , north American settlers died as they turned up and thought they knew better than the indigenous people, right? and the people that lived there for centuries and, and, and this attitude of I know better than you. 

[00:15:18] And what he said is, which was really fascinating, and I agree with him, he said that attitude is leaked into our way of doing church. And that, that we see ourselves as the conquerors and the teachers never as the partners and the listeners. Right? So, , you even think about the language that you and I grew up with. 

[00:15:36] We would be encouraged in youth groups to go and win souls. Right? So the conversation about Jesus was framed as a fight, right? And, and, and everything was about conquering and winning. And, and I, and I missed this as a, as a young Christian, but it's explicit in the text. If you just would, if we would just slow down sometimes and read what it says, Phillip's model of Evangel. 

[00:15:58] is a question. It, Philip is open for the Ethiopian Munich to say, yes, I understand this perfectly . And uh, it's about Jesus , and, and, and so Philip goes into this conversation as a. as a, a friend, he goes into this conversation as an equal. He goes into this conversation with an attitude of humility. 

[00:16:19] I'm not the conqueror here, I'm, I'm here to build a partnership, to build a community. And this is why I love this language of the, of the border land moment. Philip opens up the possibility. Different way of doing things. And, and I just, I don't, I almost just wonder if, if the church would do better sometimes if we just ask more questions. 

[00:16:45] Right? , if, if you tell telling people what they need, if we actually asked people, well, what do you need ? And, and, and I think. I think the point is that I probably don't need to unpack that anymore, but I, but I don't want us to rush beyond that. There's humility in this and I think we need, church history shows us we've not had enough humility. 

[00:17:06] There's been too many experts that could have just done with listening to one line from Philip, which is just ask a question.  

[00:17:14] John: And, and the fact that Philip, his question then invites questions. Which is lovely. So, the, the response of the Munich are framed in questions, aren't they? And, and, you get this lovely sort of response from him. How can I, unless someone explains it to me, and, and then it says, so he invited Philip to come up. So, so Phillip's humility creates the opportunity of. Philip is enforcing himself under the, under the Ethiopian Munich. A bit like Jesus said under the woman, can I have a drink? And she sort of goes, well, this isn't really, but, but, but actually it opens up an opportunity for a conversation and he eventually gets in, invited into her world. 

[00:18:06] I I, I, I sometimes say that she drank his water because he sat at her well, and, and I. I think we've got this here. Philip goes, Hey do you understand what you're reading? Well, I need someone to explain it. And clearly then there's an un an unspoken invitation because nexts thing, Philip is invited up to come and sit with them and, and then we're told which passage of the scriptures we're reading, and then we get another question. 

[00:18:33] Tell me, the Ethiopian Union says, who is the prophet speaking? Himself or someone else now. Now it's the humility of the Ethiopian that invades Philip to bring his answer. So, so you get this gorgeous connection of attitude and mentality. Had Philip rolled in and imposed himself, I think he'd have had all sorts of cultural ethnic issues going on there. 

[00:19:03] Philip. Philip in as it. Humbles himself with the question. The man invites Philip in with his question and then through the Ethiopian second question, Philip is invited to bring an explanation and you just go, that's magnificent. That's it's, it's not the only way to reach out to our world with Jesus, but it certainly is a consistent model that's practiced. 

[00:19:33] Across the gospels and even here in this beautiful, beautiful one-on-one moment, which I think is is totally gorgeous 

[00:19:40] David: the So I, I, I'm, I've got myself in a corner here. John that I've gotten super excited while you were talking. And I've I've got, I've got, I've got three Bibles on my desk right at the moment. I've got one open, one place, one open, another place. And I've just turned to this is an embarrassing moment, but I've just turned to my Greek Bible, realizing that's the only one open to. 

[00:20:05] Acts right. And so this is gonna be bad cuz I'm gonna have to try and translate in my head here. But notice his question, right? Where, where, where Philip, says, do you, do you understand what you read? Right? And, and he said, but how for, how can I be able if no one explains it to me? Right? And then he invites Philip. 

[00:20:28] And, and so I, I had this moment when you, when you were reading that, just there, so this. How if no one if no one guides me actually which is, which is, which is beautiful. They're on a road, they're in a desert. Sorry, I'm getting, I'm now doubling down on my side. I, I'm gonna have to do some heavy editing work on this section. 

[00:20:46] , the, there's, there's they're in a desert space and I'm now wondering if this is leaning back into Luke's identifying. Hey, it's the Desert Road. Desert roads are not easy to navigate. Now we've got a man here saying, I, I need a guide, 

[00:21:03] John: Yeah. 
 

[00:21:04] David: Immediately I'm drawn to Romans, right? And, and Romans chapter 10. 

[00:21:12] And, and Romans chapter 10 is one of those texts that, that might have a lot of resonance for for everybody. But there's a beautiful little parallel that, that Phillip says to the. do you understand what you read? And he said How in the Greek the first word is how? Right? Then over in Romans 10, verse 14, Paul offers us the first word, how he says, how can they call on the one they have not believed in, and how can they believe in the one whom they have not heard? 

[00:21:42] And how can they hear without someone proclaiming to them? And how can anyone proclaim unless they are sent as it is written? How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news? Now, listeners, you can't see John smiling cause he's just, he's just caught up with my random aside. 

[00:22:00] In Romans 10. It's sounding very like what we're seeing going over here at in. In Acts chapter eight, how will someone believe if they don't hear? How will someone hear if no one proclaims? And how will no one proclaim if no one's sent? Philip is sent by the Holy Spirit. He asks the question, the guy says how? 

[00:22:16] But then Paul says, how beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news? Guess dear listener, guess where that quote comes from? It comes from about 10 verses before the bit that the Ethiopian Euch is reading in the chariot 

[00:22:32] John: Amazing. Yeah. There's nothing to add 

[00:22:34] David: I'm out a breath. John, you 

[00:22:36] John: no, that's just, that's phenomenal. Yeah. I, I, I have said to to, to people, you guys seem to be having a great time, and I say when we are doing the podcast, what you don't realize, we can see each other. We, we, and, and I've said to many people, my friend David, he's the proper, clever, one of the two, so he's the, he's the real brands of the outfit. 

[00:22:55] And I said so many times, I've literally seen his brain overheat. And he manages to control the overhitting of his brain. Well, ladies and gentlemen, you've just witnessed without, without saying it visually, you've just witnessed the overhitting of the brain there. David, that's just phenomenal. I mean, that is simply phenomenal. 

[00:23:14] And I would just I, I have nothing to, I have nothing to add to that other than sheer excitement. And I would say to our listeners rewind that podcast for the last 10 minutes and listen to that bit again. Because I think those beautiful and glorious connections, I had spotted the guy bitten verse 31, but I had never made that connect. 

[00:23:34] To the way you did it to Romans 10. That is absolutely breathtaking and that is worth the podcast all on its own. And again, it does show you this, this glorious deliberateness of the Holy Spirit, I think in Philip. He is carrying the good news, his feet. Are beautiful because he's going to a desert place. 

[00:23:56] He's going to a deserted place to an excluded person and proclaiming this amazing message, which now brings salvation and inclusion to this Ethiopian, and I absolutely love that. David. That was beautiful. That was, that was worth, you don't need to edit any of that. Do not edit any of that. That is just far be less 

[00:24:18] David: The, and it, it's, it's fascinating as well. So just to, to repeat it, so you've got this, so this is Acts chapter eight, verse 31. We're looking at, we're cross-referencing it with Romans 10, verse 14. And the, how beautiful are the feet Is Isaiah 52, verse seven. It is. What is that? That's 15. Let me just do the math here cuz it really is fascinating. 

[00:24:43] It's it's 15 verses before the bit the Ethiopian Eich is reading, but it even maybe is a little bit more exciting, not as, not as hyped as I did it that way. Back to Romans. So as it is written, how beautiful are the feat of those who bring good news? And Paul continues, but remember Paul is Luke's teacher listeners, this is Paul continues. 

[00:25:04] But not all the Israelites accepted. The good news for Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our message? Right? Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message and the message is heard through the word about Christ, but I ask, did they not hear? Of course they did, because the voice has gone out into all the earth and their words to the ends of the world. 

[00:25:30] John: Fantastic. That's 

[00:25:32] David: oh my goodness, 

[00:25:34] John: That's amazing. It's just amazing. No, that, that's beautiful. I mean, that is beautiful and I, I think again, does not show you that. The, the New Testament writers and the story of acts, these, these. Interconnected ideas. They're not, they're not randomly strung together. 

[00:25:53] There's something glorious in the same way that we've reflected on the providential orchestration of the Holy Spirit to bring all of these ideas together, to collide on this desert road. So we're seeing scriptures thread together that reaffirm this idea of, of reaching our world. And, and, and, and I love, of course, The lovely little bit that follows there, David. 

[00:26:18] It says verse 35. Then Philip began with that very passage of scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. And and, and this, this glorious sense that even by the time we get to Philip, that. The community of believers are able to read what we call Old Testament the TaNaK, the prophets, and see Jesus. 

[00:26:48] So, so th th this would've been known as the servant, even, even Israel, before this moment. And yet Philip is able to bring the interpretation of this passage. So this is about Jesus now. It was, it was amazing. And my wife and I were reflecting, and we were talking about this idea of reading forwards. 

[00:27:06] Reading backwards. And if you read Isaiah forwards, just, just read Isaiah chronologically. . Then who is the servant? Well, the servant could be Israel, the servant could be. But when you read Isaiah backwards through the death and resurrection of Jesus, you can't read Isaiah 53 and go and not see Jesus. 

[00:27:26] David: Yeah. 
 

[00:27:26] John: It's just remarkable. But if you read Isaiah 53 from where the Ethiopian Euch is, well, it's hard to see Jesus, who, who's he speaking about? Oh, well, Phillip says, I, I believe he's speaking about Jesus. And then the dots start to connect and, and you've got now an early church followers of the way with magnificent confidence of a Jesus orientated Tana. 

[00:27:55] that they are explaining Jesus from what we call our Old Testament. And I think that's, that's, again, I, I think that should be shown speaking to us in the 21st century. Too many Christians are disconnecting themselves from the text and the narrative of the Old Testament, and I think that's a tragic mistake here is Philip leading the first African convert on the record to Jesus using the Old Testament, using the prophets. 

[00:28:22] and, and clearly it worked because, the, the gospel goes into Africa and, and, and look at the response of the Ethiopian. He says here's water. What can stand in the way of me being baptized? So something so significant has happened in the explanation of this text, and he's now ready to act on this moment and become an identified follower of the way by being baptized. 

[00:28:48] David: this is like John. I'm, I'm having a, I am genuinely having a meltdown over here in, in, in, in Canada, but I'm. So there's, there's, there's like five thoughts going through my head all at once. And, and so I'm gonna try and it's like a, honestly, listeners, this is, this is one of these podcasts that you're just, I'm just apologizing for, and I hope that the Holy Spirit works and 

[00:29:10] John: Listen, don't apologize. This is, this is amazing. You, you pay a fortune for this normally, so you get this for free. It's amazing. 

[00:29:16] David: the, just let's, let's put herself into the, just, just, I just wanna have some fun for a moment you know, You're an Ethiopian eunuch, right? I'm reading between the lines. So please don't, this bit's not in the Bible, but you, you've gone to Jerusalem to get a scroll, right? I, I, I, and I can't, I can't prove that, right? 

[00:29:37] But scrolls are so expensive you don't just throw them in your chariot for a trip, right? So unless you're insanely rich. So it's not impossible, but for whatever reason, I just think he's maybe gone to Jerusalem, gest stroll, Isaiah. Is unchartered, unverified. It's a big scroll. And so, so he's probably reading it from the start. 

[00:29:58] Okay. He says, as Phillip appears, he is reading, he was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth right. Hey John, you've got your Greek text there. Just have a look at verse 35 in Greek while I say this, and I'm gonna watch for you smiling and I'll tell the listeners when you do it the. 

[00:30:18] So, so 15 verses before the bit that Philip hears, the Ethiopian eunuch has read out loud, right? How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of the messenger who announce his peace? Who brings good news? Who announce his salvation? Who says, Zion, your God reigns? Listen, you sentinels lift up their voices together. 

[00:30:42] They sing for joy in plain sight. They see the return of the Lord to Zion. Break forth together in singing you ruins of Jerusalem. For the Lord has comforted his people. He has redeemed Jerusalem. The Lord has beared his holy arm before the. All the nations and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. 

[00:31:05] 12 verses later, Philip turns up, right? So like we're literally, I'm trying to think what a minute and 30 seconds. Right. A minute and 30 seconds. So, listeners, please hear me. I'm just supposing here, right? I'm supposing that Philip doesn't turn up At the very moment the Ethiopian Munich started reading. 

[00:31:26] I'm supposing the Ethiopian Munich has been reading as he's been traveling. If, if you'll just bear with me and allow me the idea that he was reading. Five minutes before Philip turned up and no more than that. Then approximately a minute and 30 to two minutes before Philip rolled up the Ethiopian Eunich read, how beautiful are the messenger? 

[00:31:49] Who brings Shalom and Sal and the salvation of God to the nations? Like. Oh my goodness. Right. But it gets better cuz I really like this. And this is my, my, my every episode, slight complaint about translations. He then we hear him read, he was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth. 

[00:32:08] Right. Like a lamb that has led to the slaughter like a sheep before it shears his silence. He did not open his mouth in humiliation. He was deprived of justice, who can speak of his descendants. And I am now gonna argue that Luke does this absolutely. Purposefully, the eunuch says to Philip, who is the prophet, talking about someone else, or himself. 

[00:32:33] And in the Greek, the text says, Opening his mouth, 

[00:32:39] John: Mm. Beautiful. 

[00:32:40] David: began to speak. Jesus has been silent. The suffering one has been silenced and will not open his mouth, but who will speak of his descendants And now Philip. Opens his mouth and the prophecy starts to be fulfilled and I can't help. It's a very strange phrase, actually, like, I don't know if you saw it, John, when I asked you to look at verse 35 there, it's not generally how you see a conversation start normally in Greek. 

[00:33:05] He's like, and he said, but this time, and I saw it and I thought, yeah, why? Why is. Why is he saying it like that? And then I looked and literally four lines above it in my Bible, you've got exactly the same phrase, but saying he did not open his mouth. I mean, Luke's doing something there, isn't 

[00:33:23] John: it's beautiful. It's beautiful. It is. It's a, it's a lovely, lovely little connection and, and even within 35, not only is Phillip up in his mouth, but he is proclaiming the good news. Again, again, a double echo there. 

[00:33:38] David: gospels him from the writings. 

[00:33:41] John: beautiful, 

[00:33:42] David: a great phrase. 

[00:33:43] John: so, it's, it, it, there's a gorgeous connection there Luke could have just told us, or he was reading from Isaiah. 

[00:33:50] David: Yeah. 
 

[00:33:51] John: But, but he, he actually shows us which bit of eyes, eyes really for, and then connects that to Philip in the most beautiful way. Having opened. Then Philip the mouth of him. . It's gorgeous. 

[00:34:04] David: but keep, keep going. Look at it like, so, so you've got this, that, that, thus he did not open his mouth is is about what we now know as Jesus, but the . Ethiopian Eich is unsure at this point, that literally, and, and reading word for word Greek listener, is, is not always the right way to do it. 

[00:34:20] But, but this is a beautiful piece of sentencing from Luke opening. So, so, so Philip opening his mouth, opening the mouth of him, he begins from that scripture 

[00:34:33] John: Yeah. 
 

[00:34:33] David: to gospel. Jesus 

[00:34:38] So, so it's like, it's like this beautiful, beautiful, just, he Jesus's mouth was closed. We do not know who he is, who will speak about him. 

[00:34:50] Philip will speak about him, and from that scripture, he will gospel him to Jesus and. Oh my goodness. It's, it's this invitational. It's it's pointed. It's it, it's, it's stunning, stunning stuff. 

[00:35:05] John: absolutely. 

[00:35:06] David: John, it's so exciting. Your dogs were excited in the background. I could 

[00:35:10] John: the dogs are getting 

[00:35:11] David: The Holy Spirit 

[00:35:12] John: our listeners, yeah, PA pepperoni and salami are both jumping around. They, something's going on in my study here.  

[00:35:19] I, I, I, isn't it beautiful to see what Luke is doing there in connecting it, this, this can be red without seeing any of that. You can see all that gold on the surface, but underneath the surface, those rings of gold. That the threads coming together and the connectedness of, of how this gospel is proclaimed and the fact that the Ethiopian is this, this amazing story of Jesus as the suffering, serving, giving himself for the world. 

[00:35:47] But that idea and I is, is zeroed in, focused in laser pointed in on this one man. And it's as if, it's as if the death of Jesus. It is not just for the world, but it's for him. It's for a moment like this, which is glorious. It's that tension between the individual and, and the collective, isn't it? And there it is. 

[00:36:10] And all of that language links that together. So beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. 

[00:36:14] David: And that's where your question that you raised, look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized and. Like, please God, let it not be us 

[00:36:26] John: Yeah. 
 

[00:36:27] David: And because there's a, there's a dark, there's a darkness that I feel in a text like this, John, where. You and I were having a conversation just before we started recording about how often our, our journey in the church has been to, to exclude people based on, on like bad readings of one text in ignorance towards the whole of the, the weight of scripture, and, and this man. 

[00:36:57] Has found himself in this exact moment that the Holy Spirit has engineered Philip appearing at this exact moment while he's reading this exact text on this exact road with this exact question. And he asks the question, what can stand in the way of my being baptized? Like the Lord of Heaven himself has engineered this situation to happen, but so often these things happen and we, the church then take that as an invitation to put something in the way. And, and can we hear the word of the Holy Spirit to us? Which is, if God is bringing people, intersecting people, can we not take it as evidence that the Lord wants those people, that you know that, that God is chasing this euch and quite literally, Philip run down the road. After him, And I just, I hear this resonance for me, just as an individual Jesus follower, to say, when somebody asks the question, what stands in the way? I mean, please, with all of the sincerity, I can muster, be very careful of answering that question with, with rules and data. And I mean, do you feel that? 

[00:38:09] John: Oh, totally, totally. I I absolutely do. And, and, and you get this sort of sense of the early ch I'll have to say this carefully. The early church are willing to take the risk with baptizing people on the pieces of the confession of their faith and not on anything else. 

[00:38:31] So, so it's that, well, hold on a minute. 

[00:38:33] Let's just check out, what your lifestyle is. Let's just check out if, what's going on at home. Let's have a, let's have a little, and, and actually, I, I said to someone this week in a very different context in the church, we've put too many gaps between a confession of faith, baptism, and water, and being filled with the Holy Spirit. 

[00:38:52] And sometimes in the loose gaps we have put things all legitimate. But things which in some ways not only slow the process down, but I think pollute the process because then it becomes about me being ready for something when actually the Ethiopian Munich, having believed on Jesus is ready. That's it. 

[00:39:16] Doesn't matter what's going on in his world at that point. And, and I, I love the fact that the, the Book of Act seems to say, let's get them baptized. Then we disciple them. Okay, that's, that's let's get them in the water. And then that's trust the Holy Spirit and the word of God to work the stuff out. That needs to be worked out. 

[00:39:34] That's not try and work it all out before. That's, that's engage this process. Here's a man that is hungry and ready, is he? Will he have rough edges? Of course he will. Will he have stuff that he needs to it? Of course he will. There's a whole bunch of things that will be part of this man's journey. Good, bad, and ugly things, I'm sure. 

[00:39:55] But actually there's nothing, there's nothing, 

[00:39:58] being him from being baptized. None of those things should stop you being baptized. And I I, if we just had a bit more courage and then I think, I think we might see people. Embrace the journey of followership of Jesus much more enthusiastically. You don't, you don't, you don't need to become something better to be baptized you in faith through Jesus Christ. 

[00:40:26] You are accepted and therefore must be, can be, should be baptized and and then, and then move from there. 

[00:40:37] David: And, and, and it's interesting, you mentioned the. The, the story of Jesus and, and the man who was possessed by a allegion of demons. It's interesting in that text, once the exorcism has happened, once the man has been set free in Mark chapter five, he then he refers to him as the man who. 

[00:41:00] Had the legion, the man who had been possessed by demons. Right? What's fascinating about this story, which really I think to your point, is. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. And when they came up out of the water, the spirit of the Lord took Philip away and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way, rejoicing. 

[00:41:24] He went into the water of eunuch, he came out of the water of eunuch. The, the, the, the, that sense of who he was, the stuff that caused that could have caused the problems for Philip still continued to be there. And, and to your point, we so often. Will I only baptize you when we fixed all of our problems with you? 

[00:41:45] Right. And, and hear the Holy Spirit. And I love, I love Luke's writing here. What can stand in the way of my baptiz be my being baptized? And Luke doesn't tell us any more of the conversation. Right. But you know, you, you obviously assume that Phillip says nothing, but maybe. Says nothing. 

[00:42:05] And actually just, they stop the cherry and get out and get baptized. But I wonder if we need to more seriously hear what you said just there, John, look here is water. Right? And, and some people are going to encounter Jesus and they're not gonna fit in the neat, tidy, religious boxes that we would really like all people to fit into. 

[00:42:26] And. and we might, if we don't see beyond that, we might miss that. They too can rejoice in the power of the gospel like this Ethiopian Euch did. 

[00:42:36] John: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and I think that is the call of the book of Acts. I think now the church is moving into territory where this is going to happen more and more and more people will not fit into that. Assumed category, but, but actually they're going to discover more and more people that, that the Holy Spirit will meet them where they are and transform them where we, where they are and lead them into the fullness of his gospel and his word. And, and, and I think Samaria with the Ethiopian Munich represent that radical, radical shift. 

[00:43:19] It's me. It's difficult, it's challenging. It won't be easy. But again, as we've been reflecting on a disruptive influence of the Holy Spirit, this, this is what the gospel is about. The gospel is about climbing into the lives of men and women, and Ministering to that moment, but also in his way leading that, leading them from that moment. 

[00:43:46] And it's our job to cooperate with that process, assist that process, not prescribe that process but allow him to do his work in us and throughs for his glory.