Borrowed Prayers | Disruptive Presence 18

In which John and David talk about how prayers can be borrowed and should be. There's a pressure on us to always be fresh and creative in our prayers. Where did that come from. Often, as in Acts 4, when the early Christians prayed, they turned to the Psalms. We hope you enjoy this episode, as we surprised each other with how this conversation blessed us, so our prayer is that it blesses you too.

Episode 71 of the Two Texts Podcast | Disruptive Presence 18

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Transcript

 Transcript Autogenerated by Descript.com

[00:00:00] David: So John, in our last episode, as we were planning and preparing for it we well, as, as we've said before, we don't script our conversations. The idea is that they are conversations We said, Oh yeah, let's do one episode on the Believers Prayer. And I think we managed to get to one word and then spent the whole episode talking about that one word. 

[00:01:14] So,  
 

[00:01:15] John: kinda love it. Kinda 

[00:01:16] David: So we're putting it on the record in this episode. We're gonna talk about the Believers' Prayer in Acts chapter four. We read the text in the last episode. So, I think that if you're, if you've just stumbled over this episode first, maybe just jump back to the one before to, to sort of, Track where we are in the text and, and, and what's leading into it. 

[00:01:35] But your very brief summary, the, the disciples have been in a challenging trial situation. They've been released. They return back to their own people with a sensor togetherness, and, and there's a beautiful moment in Acts chapter four, verse 24. Where they've reported to their friends what's happening and what's been said to them. 

[00:01:56] And the text simply says when they heard it. So when these, these, this group of Christians heard it, they raised their voices together to God. And this little piece of causality I think is beautiful here. That, that we've heard of. The challenge that's been faced to us and are immediate response is to turn to God in prayer. 

[00:02:15] And, and, Like, I, I think even the intro to the prayer is, is a, is a model for us. 

[00:02:22] John: Oh, fantastic. Yeah, I, I mean obviously the, the NIV puts it sovereign Lord. I mean, I mean, it's just, it's, it's absolutely, we, we understand from a biblical narrative that there are many names. Titles, the ways that both humans call God and God names himself. And there's no coincidence here that is, as Peter and John come off the back of a fairly arduous and, and maybe even verbally torturous experience with the Sanhedrin, where they've been threatened and, and all. 

[00:02:56] And, and as we reflected on last time, were the. Power brokers of their day are seeking to impose their power on the Kingdom of God agenda that's now being promoted by this new aplasia. It's no coincidence then that as they start to pray, that the opening. Idea is this idea of sovereign Lord. And, and I just love this idea of Lord God, this supreme understanding that we're not just praying to the Lord, but we're, we understand him as the Lord, who is God above all this sovereign idea, and of course, re reinforce with you, made the heaven. 

[00:03:40] And the earth and the sea and everything in them. So we're really framing this. Yeah, we're under a bit of pressure, but we're coming to the God of the universe, the God who is all before all and can do all. And, and I love that sort of, and, and, and I don't think, David, that that is just. A sort of a religious, Oh, here's a cool way to start a prayer. 

[00:04:03] I think this is a response to the persecution. It's a response to detention and pressure of the moment, but it's also a declaration of an understanding of who the Lord is appropriately. In the moment that they're facing sovereign Lord, I, I think there's a moment to call him Father. There's a moment where we breathe his name as the one who's the provider, the one who gives us peace, the one who heals. 

[00:04:31] But, but here the guys are, and the girls are reaching out and saying, Sovereign Lord, sovereign Lord, and looking to him as the supreme power in this moment. So I, I think it's a beautiful piece of intentionality there. 

[00:04:44] David: have often talked about the creation narrative in Genesis and said to people that one of my deep concerns in Christianity about the creation narrative is that we read it and have all the wrong arguments as a result of it. And, and like. I think that the creation narrative is one of the most important pieces of Jewish scripture, and therefore, by definition, Christian scripture. 

[00:05:14] And here in Acts 4 24, I think is part of the reason why you see it, that what we often do is we read the creation narrative and ask lots of questions about the world, right? We asked lots of questions about, about how this was formed and what happened. I am convinced that the early writer of the creation narratives. 

[00:05:31] We're trying to tell us something about God. Right? And they were trying to tell us that this is, and, and I think this is evidence that the early church understood it that way. That went up against the wall. Let us remember the God to whom we are praying that he is the. God who made the earth and the heavens and the sea and everything in it. 

[00:05:50] So, and, and that to me is a really good creation theology. So, so people, I, I often will say having a good creation theology is very important for Christians and people hear me saying. Oh, David's arguing for a particular reading of Genesis and, and, and I say, No, no, I'm arguing for an understanding of God that is so profoundly important. 

[00:06:12] I noticed something John, that I, I think he's quite profound as, as well, is that the, the term sovereign Lord, the Lord who is above all, is a translation of, of the Greek despot, where we get the term despotic from. Right. And isn't it interesting that when you ever, you were, you would describe a leader as a dpo, that would never be a positive thing, And, and yeah, it would always refer to somebody who had, well, significant power that they were using badly. 

[00:06:51] John: yes. 
 

[00:06:52] David: Isn't it interesting that the word in Greek despot taste literally means the possession of supreme authority? But interesting that when you give supreme authority to a human, it will always end up being used badly. 

[00:07:07] Ergo, That term has become a negative term, yet when it is given to God, it is actually here from the apostles. They call God a despot, as a, as a word of praise. That, that actually giving supreme authority to the one who can handle it is, is very safe and worthy of praise. Giving it to a Caesar, a king, a president, a prime minister, it will become a very bad. 

[00:07:31] John: For sure, for sure. And, and I think your reflection on the creation narrative absolutely affirms that, you know that opening line, seven gorgeous words in Hebrew. 10 words in English in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and it's that, And the question we should be asking is who is God? 

[00:07:51] What's he like and why is he making the universe? Is there a God? And how did he do it? And that's tends to be our scientific approach to Genesis one instead of a head break approach. Well, well who is Elohim? Who is this God? And why on earth is he making the universe? And I think there are the sorts of questions. 

[00:08:09] And do you know what I noticed David recently in some of my reflections. The first 34 verses of Genesis, which takes us at the chapter two, verse four, which is a sort of natural break in the text. And that opening creation week first, 34 verses of Genesis. God, is mentioned 32 times. 

[00:08:28] David: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:29] John: It's quite incredible, right? 

[00:08:31] So we, we think of Genesis one about, the creation of humanity ultimately is the big idea. But actually God, Elohim is mentioned 32 times in the first 34 verses, and you get a beautiful progression in the Genesis text where in chapter one it, it's really essentially God, Elohim. And then as you move into chapter two, it's Lord God. 

[00:08:55] Yawe Elohim or Adonai Eim. And then when you move into chapter four, it's yawe or Adonai you. So you're moving from the creator God to the covenant God, to the God who reveals himself. And, and again, I think the, the creation narrative is really helpful when we hear these freezes because this is not just an all powerful God, but he's a certain type of God. 

[00:09:17] He has a certain nature, certain charact. Certain behaviors and what do we, where do we start to learn about the nature and character of this God in the creation narrative, we start to see the sort of things he's into, the sort of things he wants to do and the sort of the sort of universe he wants to shape and 

[00:09:37] David: Mm. 
 

[00:09:38] John: and, and I think then an idea of calling out to. 

[00:09:42] Lord God, Supreme, ruler of the universe. I, I think however people read Genesis, that's an idea that is resident right there in the beginning and clearly resident in the hearts of these first wave Jewish believers sovereign Lord Supreme Lord, Supreme God, we look to you love. 

[00:10:03] David: And that sort of sets up the Bible text that they bring into this prayer then, doesn't it? And, and I, I, I, I'd love to just put a little footnote in for a second if we can circle back even and talk about the use of the Psalms as prayer, which is something I think. We should reflect on, but just for now, notice that, So they jump into Psalm at two, don't they? 

[00:10:28] A 
 

[00:10:28] John: They do. 

[00:10:29] David: royal and Messianic psalm. That makes quite a few appearances in the New Testament. 

[00:10:35] John: End 
 

[00:10:35] David: this, it's, it's a favorite one of the early Christians because they see this this kind of. Well, it, it talks about the anointed one of the Lord, so they can see the, the christological aspects. They can see Jesus in this Psalm very easily, can't they? 

[00:10:48] But everything that you just said just there, you see this, this is the type of God we are praying to. And then you get this contrast of the, of the God who is doing what our God is doing and the kings of the earth taking their stand against. 

[00:11:05] John: Indeed. Indeed, indeed. And isn't it lovely that actually you get this. Verse 26, The Kings of the Earth rise up in the rulers band together, and in verse 27, indeed her. On pious pilot met together with the Gentiles and the people of, and and it's almost like it, the prayer feel. I mean, it's a prayer, but it feels a bit ceremony as well. 

[00:11:27] It feels like a big . We, over the years growing up in church of, of being in prayer meetings were where the prayer was more sermon than prayer. But, but all good, all good. And, and the Lord can decipher all of that. But you do feel. That this is confessional prayer rather than request prayer, isn't it? 

[00:11:44] At this stage there's so, a, a request happens towards the end, but, but, but certainly the first half of this prayer is absolutely dynamic confession, and it's a confession of who God is. It's a confession of his word, and it's a confession of the context they're in. And I love the. The, the, the prayer is connecting relevant moments that they're living in herd pilot gentiles, the, the powers of of Jerusalem and relating that to this incredible Sam, Kings of the earth rise up, rulers bond together against the Lord. 

[00:12:21] And against, of course, his anointed one. And of course, for Peter and John in that early community, his anointed one is 100% identified with Jesus, the Christ, the Messiah. 

[00:12:32] David: Worth noting John, that in the version of the Bible that they're using so we would, when you go to Psalm two, verse two in your Bible, you're gonna see the text against the Lord in his a 91. But it's worth knowing for just as we immerse yourself into their world, in the verse version of the Bible that Peter and John have been trained in, The text literally reads against the Lord and against his Christ. 

[00:12:58] Right? So, so, so the link is much easier for them to, to connect together, isn't it? 

[00:13:02] John: Yes, Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and and I, I, I love the way that that use of, of the Sam. Its confessional senses is made, and again, it leans us into the confessional side of prayer as well as the request side of prayer. And that there can be as much in our prayers about declaring out what is as well as asking for what might be, And I think the early church really. 

[00:13:32] Sort of put that together so well, and, and as we've often done, as we've often done, David, where, where an Old Testament references reference, we, we've gone back to that. And again, Sam too carries on. The one thrown in heaven laughs the Lord SCS at them. I've installed my keen on Zion, my Holy Hill again, that's a, an incredible, if you think about the physical, geographical situation at the early church are in, they are literally in the city of Zion. 

[00:14:02] They, they, they are. As close as Zion. Hell as you're gonna get sort of where they are and there's that affirmation. And then I love the way the Sam concludes. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. And of course the early church, this prayer meeting, that's what they're literally doing. They're taking refuge. 

[00:14:23] In the sovereign Lord, in this God, in, in the face of threat, in the face of potential persecution, in the face of uncertainty. So you get this gorgeous confessional side to it. But then inferred in Thesal as a whole is our confession, brings us to a place of coming to refuge. And, and leading into you, which seems then to lean in. 

[00:14:48] So the, the end of the Sam, which is unspoken, leans into the sort of request part of the prayer that actually, Lord, we, we are looking to you for our refuge. We're looking to use as our helper. And that's the unspoken aspect of Sam too. That's sort of inferred in the prayer, which we've leaned into before. 

[00:15:05] No ideas. 

[00:15:06] David: And it, the contrast just in the middle the, that, I think, and, and as you said, we often think that when Psalms are cited in the New Testament, when scripture cited in the New Testament, they're surrounding stuff is probably significant. It, it, it's interesting that where they leave off in act against the Lord and against his Messiah. 

[00:15:26] If you, if you go back to. I'm just looking at the Greek text ofs too, because that's, that's what they seem to be quoting from rather than the Hebrew text in, in Act. Luke definitely always quotes the Greek text. You get this the Kings of the Earth set themselves and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and his anointed, his Christ, and the English text reads saying, And then you get this, let us burst their bonds as under and cast their cords from us. 

[00:15:52] So it's this real rebellious line. What's interesting is, is that word saying, The Psalm introduces it, and I, I, I quite like this. The som introduces it, The word it uses is df Salma, right? It literally singing almost, so it, it's presenting this idea. That of, of almost competing worship, right? The, the, the, the kings of the Earth have a worship song which says, Let us break away from this God and do our own thing. 

[00:16:19] And then the song, But this, this is encased within a psalm of praise to God, who, who we recognizes the one in heaven laughing at our attempts to, to, to be better than him. But then as you, as you follow the text, then you get, and this is possibly. Quite familiar to, to some people. You get to verse seven and, and, and the psalmist says, I will tell the decree of the Lord. 

[00:16:42] He said to. You are my son today. I have begotten you. Now there's, that will sound familiar to us. Ask of me and I will make the nation's your heritage and the ends of the earth, your possession. Just think about how that resonates with act, right? Like, like we're only in chapter four, but. Chapter one verse eight, The ends of the Earth is where we're going with this spirit, This sun, has, has given them this commission. 

[00:17:09] You, you start to feel why this psalm is where, we all have our verses return to in times of trouble. I think you can see why the apostles jumped to this in their prayer time almost immediately because it would be so resonant for. 

[00:17:27] John: Superb. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and again, doesn't it show you the, I suppose the, the deep sightedness of the text? 

[00:17:38] David: Mm 
 

[00:17:39] John: In their hearts. The, the whole idea of psalms that to heal, this, these prayers, these sometimes canonized into songs, these confessions, they, they aren't just for, for many of these early believers nice sort of passages that they just go to when having a bit of a down date. 

[00:17:56] But these ideas, these prayers have been ingrained into them. There's, there's something and, and isn't it striking that in a moment of crisis, In a moment of pressure as we reflect on the last podcast, they, they physically go to the community, but they, by faith, go to the word 

[00:18:15] David: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:16] John: not, isn't not a gorgeous sort of, so, their, their first response to this is not right. 

[00:18:21] We need a strategy of how to take on the Sanhedrin. We need like, okay, we need to get a committee together to work this site. Their first response is a word. Based response. A, a textual response that frames their prayer. So, although there's a spontaneity within their prayer, clearly, that the spontaneity of that prayer is framed in the intentionality of the Sams. again, it, it leans into this idea of how important it is for us as followers of Jesus to. the word of God to saturate our souls, not, not just to let it be a, a piece of text we read, but let it saturate who we are, because then in those moments of crisis, What's in us comes out of us. It's, it's what's been framed in us by the word of God. 

[00:19:16] By the spirit of God actually comes out of us and, and you, you either think, Wow, that's really coincidental that they just happened to quote a Sam that has all that cool connecting stuff to Jesus in the early church. Or you go, No, no, this is exactly, they reach for, because they know. What this is about. 

[00:19:33] And so you get this gorgeous dynamic partnership between the intentionality of reaching for Sam too, and also the spontaneity of what that. That Sam then produces in the prayers that they pray it. It's like the samm forms the frame of the confession, which then gives the spring for a springboard for the way they pray. 

[00:19:58] And I think, my goodness, that that's such a tremendous model. In, in a world like, for, for many of us, we've been raised at prayer is just a purely like individual thing. Whatever comes into your head, say it. Here's some ideas, but, use your own words and you go, Absolutely listen. 

[00:20:14] 100% cool with that. But our, our first century brothers and sisters would have been trained, certainly the Jewish contingent of those, those believers would've been trained to use the word. as the framework for some of their, for some of their moments, they reach to you. Does that make sense or is that what. 

[00:20:35] David: Oh, John, I feel that like on a, on a very, very deep level I am, I so like, just to even be a little autobiographical for a second, but a few years ago, I. Was looking to find new depth in my own prayer life. And, as I think, I think is part of discipleship, isn't it? So I bought a copy of the Book of Common Prayer. 

[00:20:59] And so, like you, I was, I, I went to a Pentecostal church for the first time when I was, when I was I think a week and a half old. And it wasn't my choice, but , so, and I've been in Pentecostal church. He's my whole life as a result of that. And So, and if you've been, if anyone's listened to this podcast, they know, I, I, I, I'd like to think of myself as if not necessarily overly enamored, sometimes by denominational Pentecostalism in terms of the experience of the spirit. 

[00:21:27] This is deeply my experience, but I, but I definitely was raised in a context where the spontaneous, the self made the. The self-initiated prayer was the prayer that was idealized. That's the prayer that we should do, so, so I get this book of common prayer, and as a complete naive person, not raised in the more liturgical traditions, I buy this book. 

[00:21:51] And if I'm honest, if I was to tell this story truthfully, I'm a bit disappointed because it's just a book. PSMs, basically , it's just, and they're just organized into different offices of the day and different services. But like if you pick up a copy of the book of Common Prayer and go to the noon day prayers, it's just a list of psalms. 

[00:22:10] And I say, just with irony intended here, right? Where, And it I started, I then I realize, oh wait, in other traditions of the church. And then I see it in acts as well. Ironically acts the book that all Pentecostals love when they turn to prayer. They don't. Go purely to a spontaneous prayer, but they turn to scripture and they pray. 

[00:22:31] The Psalms of. And I've thought about this a lot. And then I was listening to some teaching by Chris Green, who's a, a very liturgical Pentecostal theologian. Right. Deeply Pentecostal, but deeply liturgical. And he said this, and I've just found the quote while you were talking, cuz I, this helped me so much. 

[00:22:49] Right. And he's talking about praying, wrote prayers. And how is a Pentecostal, they're considered to be, Inferior and that a better prayer is one that's come up. And, and he just said this, He said, he said, Just as we live on borrowed breath, right? So he, he unpacked this and lead up to this quote. He just think about it, you breathe in breath and then you breathe back out again. 

[00:23:09] So, so you, you constantly, literally, your whole day is borrowing breath, right? You go, Can I have a bit of oxygen? I, and I, I love it as an image. It's beautiful, isn't it? Like, like, can I have a bit of oxygen? Oh, look on my life, Okay, here, have it back. And , and, and so you and me were all wondering around just borrowing breath, right? 

[00:23:25] So like a beautiful, a beautiful image, right? He says this just, just as we live on borrowed breath, it is also true that we pray borrowed prayers. 

[00:23:36] John: Wow. 
 

[00:23:37] David: We only learn how to pray by praying prayers we did not write and by praying prayers that did not rise up in us at first. 

[00:23:48] John: Wow. That's 

[00:23:49] David: And, and, and, and he makes the point in this teaching that if you notice, that's exactly what Jesus does to disciples. 

[00:23:56] Here is how you should pray. If, if left to your own devices, you'll just pray about some things That's. Mostly your own things, but what the Lord's Prayer teaches assays. Okay, well, you should. You should pray about this, and you should also make sure you give glory to God. You should think about forgiveness. 

[00:24:11] You should think about the things you've done wrong. You should say, thanks for what God has given you. You should worry a little bit about evil and then pass it all over to God and then confess that all things are his. So the Lord's Prayer gives you a borrowed. Outline to how to pray, but of course, if you don't know how to pray, just pray that right? 

[00:24:32] And then, and then once you've managed that, go of the Psalms and the Ps. Massively help you in prayer because they often tell you the things that you can pray for that you previously thought you weren't allowed to pray for. Right? , think about how many of the songs, they say things like, like, God, I I really hope you smash all my enemies. 

[00:24:49] Right? And, and, and we think, we think, Are you allowed to pray that? Like, can I stand up in church and go, God, I really pray that you would smash my enemies. But if you hang onto Thes, you notice by the end, Thesist almost always. Actually, God, this is yours to deal with. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna hand that to you because if it was up to me, I would go and smash my enemies. 

[00:25:08] But what I'm actually doing in this prayer is it's teaching me how to do that. So I love that idea of of, of saying to myself, and then to anybody listening, borrow your prayers from the Psalms. It will enrich your prayer life, especially when you don't even know how to pray. 

[00:25:24] John: That's beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. I mean, my, my prayer, my devotional time this morning be began. Once, once I had sort of welcomed a presence of the Lord with Sam. 23, The 

[00:25:37] David: Mm mm. 

[00:25:39] John: Lord, you are my shepherd. And because of that, I shall not be in want. And I, and one of my favorite confessional Sams, which I, I feel very strongly. 

[00:25:48] Is is part of my journey is SAM 112, but act actually in some way. Sam 112 is part of a three SAM cup a triplet. So you've got SAM hundred, 11, 12, and 13. All begin with the free is PR as the Lord. And what's gorgeous is that Sam 112 is this gorgeous confession about. The man who fears the Lord. Blessed is the man who fears the Lord, who finds great delight in his commands. 

[00:26:12] His children will be made in the land. The generation of the operate will be blessed. That's how it begins. But of course, Sam 111 is totally about the magnificence of God 

[00:26:23] David: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:24] John: 113 is totally about the magnificent faithfulness and generosity of. . And so you get this beautiful psalm about the, the man who is blessed sandwiched by the God who bless us. 

[00:26:37] David: I love 

[00:26:38] John: It's just, I, I mean, it's just like it says, and I read all three Psalms this morning as part of my prayers. And you know what David? It's just in the midst of madness and chaos and I don't know exactly when our, this podcast will go out, but the UK money markets. Flat lining, and people are running around like headless chickens, and it's all, it's, it's the end of the world as we know it. 

[00:27:01] And then you sit, you sit in your sacred place and you breathe in a borrowed prayer to use your beautiful quote. You breathe in a borrowed prayer, Sam 111, and then you breathe out, and then you breathe in Sam 112, and then you breathe out, and you breathe in Sam 113. And you go, Do you know? It's okay. 

[00:27:22] Everything's okay. 

[00:27:23] David: So true. 

[00:27:24] John: the sovereign Lord is in control. And you know what I, I, I love all of that. And, and there have been like to help our listeners. There have been many, I've been a Christian a million years and there have been many moments and I haven't, no one what to pray and, and to use your phraseology. 

[00:27:41] I have gone to borrowed prayers. I have gone to prayers with somehow, somehow articul. The longing of my soul towards the Lord. And, and those ancient words live in the 21st century like they were written for the 21st century. And of course, me and you sort of believe they were, but, but I, I love that. And, and I think our first century brothers and sisters are teaching is how this rocks and this, this isn't just like some clever stuff they're doing. 

[00:28:10] This is well worn idea. that the spirit of God is breathing on and bringing to life in the most spectacular way, and I do love it. I do love it. 

[00:28:19] David: Again, we know this intuitively. When you love, when you love a person and want to tell them that you love them, you go to Shakespeare because you know that Shakespeare will tell them better than you can, right? and, and like. It's true, isn't it? We, we, we, we go, Okay, this, this says what I'm trying to see, but where did we get this idea that all of a sudden when we come before God and. 

[00:28:44] Learn how to talk to him that we have to do on our own. It's like, it's like let's just push us down the hill on a bike with no training wheels and hope that it all works well. And even as you were saying what you were saying just there, you look at the state of the world at the moment, the, the money markets in the uk, the, fuel crises across Europe, we get North America, one half of it. 

[00:29:04] I live in the half of North America that seems to be on fire permanently. And then the other half of North America is getting battered by, by storms. And the rest of the world has all of the various things. That's just us talking about the two places that we live. Just look at the psalm that the apostles read here. 

[00:29:21] Why do the nations conspire And the people plot in vain, right? He who sits in heaven laughs, right? He's like, like, like, we think we know how we're gonna figure our way out. So much of this stuff, and, and, and our prayer life says, probably should lean on God a bit more. Because, because what we are worried about and what we are trying to plot our way out about. 

[00:29:43] Might be even humorous to God the way that we struggle around and think we're gonna solve it. And, and, and there's deep comfort in that prayer 

[00:29:51] John: Totally. Absolutely. And, and, and I think even, even the way they conclude their prayer, it's really interesting what they don't. 

[00:29:59] David: Mm. 
 

[00:29:59] John: think what you've just said is absolutely, they say, Now, Lord, considered our threats. Now if we didn't know what was coming next, you go, Okay, what they're about to say. 

[00:30:08] Right? Lord, drop the hammer on them and kill them all sort of thing. But look at this, it says, Now, Lord, considered a threats and enable your servants. 

[00:30:16] David: Yeah. 
 

[00:30:18] John: your word with group boldness. So, so in considering the threats of others, the prayer is that the church is emboldened and empowered rather than their enemies anguished. 

[00:30:30] I, I love this. Stretch out your hand and you say, Okay, stretch your, your hand and kill them all. No, no. Stretch out your hand to heal. and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus. There is something counterintuitive here 

[00:30:47] David: Yes. 
 

[00:30:47] John: that I just, I am, I, it just touches me deeply. 

[00:30:52] They're not praying against. Something, they're praying for something. 

[00:30:58] And I love this, David. And when pain comes on us, when opposition persecution, one of our easiest default positions is to pray against something. And I totally understand that. I totally get it. So I'm, I'm living in the real world like everybody else. 

[00:31:14] But look at this, They're, they're not praying against something. They're praying for something. They're praying for the embolding of the believers in the word of God in them. They're praying for healing and for these signs and wonders to be performed. I'm going, Oh Lord Jesus, help us. Help us not, And I think the confidence to pray for. 

[00:31:36] Is because they've got a confidence in the sovereign Lord who has en informed his Messiah, who is in control, who has made the heavens in the earth, and therefore they're gone. Actually, we don't wanna waste our time just praying against something. We want to invite the dynamic power of this God into something. 

[00:32:00] And to produce something at this moment that is greater than us and and lift the moment above a human agenda. 

[00:32:08] And or God agenda and I go, Lord, help me. Forgive me for the times when I have reduced you down to killing my enemies. Right for, forgive me for those moments when I have, I've wanted you to be my, my steely assassin. 

[00:32:24] And actually that is, that is an appalling use of privilege actually, Lord, forgive me for that. Help me to step away from my selfishness and help me to invite your agenda of magnificence and greatness and generosity and life and love into the situation. And I'm gonna take my hands off it and I'm gonna say to you, Do what only you can do. 

[00:32:47] And, and that's why I love this prayer, because it's, and, and, and maybe that's why the play shakes. Maybe that's why all this cool stuff kicks off because actually a bunch of humans are taking their hands off the control stick and sort of saying to the Lord, right, Lord, you, you made a universe in six days. 

[00:33:04] Like, okay, we invade you to do what only you can do. Come and do it. 

[00:33:08] David: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:08] John: I love. 

[00:33:09] David: Right. Well, and, and so , there's two quotes come to mind. One, one that just came to mind, John, that I love, and I, I have literally had it on my screen for the last two weeks. It's not directly related to what you were saying, but the second quote I have. Is so you'll forgive me the first one. 

[00:33:26] Isaac Bashiva. Isaac Bashiva singer Jewish man. He has this amazing quote, and, and I guarantee this will be the one that everybody remembers. He said, he said, I only pray when I'm in trouble, but I'm in trouble all the time. But, 

[00:33:46] John: Yeah. 
 

[00:33:47] David: The, and the reason that came back to me actually is cuz I was, I was just quickly scrolling as you were talking to, to, to a quote that I wanted to say that so resonates with what you're saying. But you know, my sense of humor as such, I love, I love a spiritual quote with a bit of a joke because while Thes says God laughs, doesn't he? 

[00:34:02] So 
 

[00:34:02] John: It's true. 

[00:34:04] David: Brian, Brian Z says this. So let's bringing it back to what you were saying, John, forgive me for making a joke when you made such an important point. Brian Zan says this, The primary purpose of prayer is not to get God to do what we want God to do, but to be properly formed, to become the person God created me to be. 

[00:34:27] And, and I love that the primary purpose of God of prayer is not to get God to do what we want God to do, but to. Properly formed, which I think just is, is ex to me. That's what you were saying, just there. And I just wanted to sort of, bring that resonance from, to that, that, that, that, what am I doing when I come to prayer is actually I am, I'm allowing myself to be shaped and formed. 

[00:34:50] And that's why praying the psalms, I think is so important because they actually, the, the. I, I, God, I want you to deal with my enemies. The Lord's Prayer. Why is it so important? God, I want forgiveness. Well, okay, but while you're getting forgiveness, why don't you learn a bit of forgiveness as well? 

[00:35:04] And so I love that notion of what you were talking about there, about the shaping and the forming and the, and something is happening in me in prayer that, that it would be if I just allow myself to set the. I will be like, Okay, God, sort out these people that are coming for us, but instead the apostles pray a different prayer, which is a model for us. 

[00:35:29] John: Magnificent, and I suppose it echos. The magnificent word to Jesus, Let your kingdom come, that your will be done on earth in us as it is in heaven. And if we can, I suppose, if we can align with that, whatever we are facing, 

[00:35:45] David: Mm. 
 

[00:35:46] John: my goodness we can see something of this glory and power demonstrated in our world and in our lives. 

[00:35:51] So beautiful.