The Blessing is the Giving | Disruptive Presence 20

In which John and David discuss the deep generosity of the disciples in Acts. Exploring how they lived out the call of Jesus (and Torah), we discuss the disciples' behaviour and attitude towards the poor.

Episode 73 of the Two Texts Podcast | Disruptive Presence 20

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Transcript

Transcript Autogenerated by Descript.com 

[00:00:00] David: So John, in our last episode, we were talking about this, this fascinating three verses of Acts 4 32, 33, 34, but this blend of the spirit and the practical and how they get sort of locked in together and we see that the Holy Spirit always has. Practical impact. Not simply just stuck in spiritual stuff and none of that to downplay the spiritual stuff, but to realize that it seems a better ways to look at the two of them in harmony rather than as separate. But then you get this bit in Acts chapter four, where, where Luke says there was not a needy person amongst them. Verse 34, which is this huge, like, wow. How, how does that work? And then really fascinatingly, he actually. Gives us an explanation. He says there was not a needy person amongst them for as many his owned lands or houses sold them, brought the proceeds of what was sold. 

[00:01:46] They laid it at the apostles feet and it was distributed to each as any had. Neat. And then he says, And there was a Levi, a native, a Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas, which means son of encouragement. He sold a field that belonged to him, brought the money and laid it at the parcel's feet. 

[00:02:04] So like fascinating. Almost the mechanics of how this then worked its way out 

[00:02:09] John: Amazing. Yeah. Staggering and, and fascinating, fascinating detail from Luke. I think one of the things I love about Luke is that even though he is a gentle. Sort of broadly writing to the genti world. His, he seems to have an incredible knowledge of the Old Testament text or the Hebrew Bible, the Tana knock. 

[00:02:34] No doubt, no doubt. By the time of writing X influenced by a Tenox aprimo in Saul Paul, so, so, but, but his, his language is so powerful when. When I reflected on verse 34, there was not a needy person among them, David i I com I immediately heard the echo to a statement in Naura. Now we've, millions of years ago, we've sort of hinted at this when we did some of the teaching of Jesus and there's an incredible passage in Deuteronomy 15, which is almost, it's like if you. 

[00:03:12] L Act four and Deuteronomy 15, side by side, you're looking at something that looks remarkably similar. Let me, let me just read some bits of it for you. Dug it out. So I had a look at it. Deuteronomy 15 says, however their need. Be no poor people among you. I mean, it's virtually a word for word quote that that Luke's picking up there. 

[00:03:32] He says, For in the land, the Lord your God is giving you to possess. As you're inherits, he will richly bless you. So he speak in there to Israel, and then he goes on to say this, you will lend to many nations, but borrow from none. And then he goes on to say this, You will rule over many nations, but none will rule over you. 

[00:03:49] And it concludes if anyone is poor among you, your fellow Israelites, in any of the times of the land, the Lord your God has given you. Do not be hardhearted or tight-fisted towards them. Rather be openhanded and freely lend them whatever they need. And then it was on to say in the CMV N, Give generously to. 

[00:04:11] And do so without ag grudging heart. And then this is the bit that actually Jesus quotes when he's anointed for burial it says that you will, there will always be poor people in the land. Therefore, I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelis. Who are poor and needy in the land. I, I, I love what Jonathan Sex says in his beautiful book essays on Ethics. 

[00:04:35] He says, Covenant generates an ethic of social responsibility. 

[00:04:40] David: mm I 
 

[00:04:41] John: and I love this. Now we're, we are layering of course, into that this magnificent work of the spirit, but when I read Deuteronomy 15 and hear how Luke comments on X four and how he positions X four and gone, wow, that's like Torah. Supercharged, Right? 

[00:05:00] It's, it's like, it's like the Holy Spirit has breathed on this community and taken the truth of this passage in Naura and really made it dynamically. Modern and contemporary and up to date. So, so this new community, it's not about land, but it's about community. It's about kingdom. It's not about ruling other nations, but it's about bringing the kingdom of God to the world. 

[00:05:26] So there, there, there are, there are challenges around interpreting it, but the essence of it is this no poor among you and this echo of it of Jesus. You'll always have the. But, but keep your hands open and be generous towards your fellow as relates to the poor. An and I just, I thought that was absolutely delightful. 

[00:05:48] Is Luke doing that deliberately, like we've reflected before Luke throws in little comments that seem to connect the X journey to the Tana knock journey. Things that. Almost incidental that when you connect them to Gall go, Oh wow, hold on. Is he, is he leaning into that? And I think in making social commentary on this early church, empowered by the spirit he is for a Jewish community, ratifying the fact that this first wave of believers are also deeply honoring the truth of the Torah and trying to practice that through the lens of Jesus who has fulfilled the Torah. 

[00:06:25] David: I would, I would encourage anyone to go and spend a little bit of time in Deuteronomy 15 after, after listening to our conversation today because, we've, we've talked so many times about how, what we see in the Holy Spirit is the working out of God's vision that he's always had for the world. 

[00:06:43] And I think this is another one of those places, this little throwaway line in Acts. Oh, there was, there was no needy persons amongst them. This is the dream. This is, this has always been the dream and. And this sort of level of disregard for personal possession in pursuit of helping the needy is fascinating. 

[00:07:04] Like the bit that you didn't read John from, from Deuteronomy 15, which I have open while you're reading it. So I was looking at it there is that even between verses nine and 10, there's this little moment where it deals with. The seventh year remission. So in, in, and, and, and you could speak better to this than I could, but this, this process that, that every seventh year things are sort of reset and returned. 

[00:07:31] And, and it's very clear in Duero 15 that, the. There's this thought from the writer, the way it's it's possessed is that, well, maybe, maybe it's coming close to the seventh year and somebody needs your help, and you're thinking, If I give this person a loan, I'm never gonna see this money again. 

[00:07:45] And, and he says, Do not entertain that mean thought thinking that year, the seventh year is near and let me give nothing. So there's even this instruction that, give a loan to somebody. Even when you categorically know there's no chance you're ever getting that money back. What is the way of God? 

[00:08:05] The way of God is to still, give liberally and un grudgingly. And, and, and then you've got now in Acts, this group of people, they're selling houses to feed need. And I think we have, we have this underlying notion, Particularly in the western world that if somebody is poor, they have done something to deserve this and, and therefore they should do something to get out of it. 

[00:08:34] And Deuteronomy and acts what fascinates me. So it's consistent in scripture. The question of how the person came to be in need is never raised . And even you notice it actually verse 8th of June, 2015, you should rather open your hand willingly lending enough to meet the need, whatever it may be. 

[00:08:57] And so I, I think we have, if I could be as bold as to say, I think there is too much conversation. Even in the church today about how did this person get there? And, and I think that sometimes influences our decision about whether or not to help. And I just, I, I'm making an argument from silence here, but maybe it's a deafening silence, that it's, it should be at least of interest to us that the Bible never engages that question. 

[00:09:28] Does, does that make sense? 

[00:09:30] John: powerful. Powerful. And, and I think, I think you see that modeled in Jesus.  

[00:09:34] David: Mm. 
 

[00:09:35] John: how many times did we see Jesus heal people and he, he never, he never. Goes into the discussion about how they got sick or was it their fault? Was it not their fault? Or in feeding the hungry, he didn't discriminate between the rich, hungry and the poor hungry. 

[00:09:51] He just fed the hungry who were all hanging around him. 

[00:09:54] David: He never asks why nobody brought lunch with them. For the feeding of the 5,000 

[00:09:58] John: That's right. Absolutely. And, and there must have been people following in that crowd who had means to take care of themselves, but they all got fed equally. And, and again, this, this really. Strikes at the heart of, of our autonomy. 

[00:10:13] It strikes at the heart of our value system. It really challenges us to the core, our sense of fairness, our sense of our, our sense of justice, not necessarily God's sense of justice. And the fact that this really challenges us in our liberality. Can, can we, can we trust God with our generos? Even. Even if in the worst case scenario that generosity was abused, even if it was deemed by somebody somewhere, that that generosity was undeserving. 

[00:10:48] Jesus says in the book of accent, we, we struggle to find this quote in the gospels as an actual quote, but Paul assures us that Jesus said blessed. It is more blessed to give than to receive and. So often I've heard that nuanced as, Oh no. Well, the blessing is what you receive because you give, But no, actually Jesus is saying the blessing is in the giving. 

[00:11:14] Right? The actual blessing is in the actual giving. It's not, Or you'll get something back because you give. That that's not, that's not hinted there. It's now is there a principle of that? I think there is sewing and reaping. I think we can talk about that, but, but it's this, it's this liberality again, it's this, it's, it's like Jesus saying it's worth blessed to, to give into receive. 

[00:11:37] Will you trust me with your generosity? Will, Are you prepared to just be generous and not worry about the justice or. Deserve itness of that generosity, but just trust me with it. And it's interesting when you look at Deuteronomy, that's, that's exactly the same nuance and within the continent family of God, because Deuteronomy is rooted in primarily continent practice. 

[00:12:07] And then it, it obviously spreads, but it's, it's looking after your fellow Israelite in Deuteronomy. And here's the church being asked, Okay, model. Liberal generosity in the community of faith. Let the world around you. See, I, I genuinely believe, David, that one of our greatest acts of resistance, one of our greatest acts of mission, is the modeling of dynamic, authentic. 

[00:12:34] Community to our world. We can model, we, we may not be able to change laws on equality, our laws on racial injustice, our laws on financial or social injustice. But we can model social justice. We can model equality. We can model a sense of inclusion and acceptance. We can, we can model dynamic liberal generosity to our world that says when you walk through the doors, Out of the world you live in, into our community, whether you're a male and female, you're, you're equal. 

[00:13:06] Whether you are slave or master, you are equal. Whether you are Jew or Gentile, you are equal. And actually we will determine to look after you to provide in such a way that no one in this community has to suffer the basic needs of. And I to, to me it, it is, it's back to our previous podcast convo, David, I, I think it's time to autonomy. 

[00:13:35] Am I prepared to trust God with my generosity 

[00:13:39] David: Mmm. 
 

[00:13:40] John: and, and not get involved in the deservedness or justice of the conversation, but actually say, Hold on, here's, here's a person that hasn't got enough money for food. Or, Here's a person who actually. heat their home, or here's a person who is on the verge of destitution. 

[00:13:58] Can I help them or do I, do I need to, do, I need to have the details before I can help them? I, I think it's a trust issue. 

[00:14:06] David: One of my favorite quotes from Stanley Hawas is when he says that the task of the church. Is to be the church and in doing so, to show the world how to be the world. Right. And, and, and I, I love that. So the task of the church is to be the church, but by doing so to show the world how to be the world, and I, I, I feel like that that resonates with what you're saying there. 

[00:14:32] How does. How does this, no matter what numbers we buy into in terms of the math of working out acts, it's still a relatively small group of people in comparison to the way that the Roman Empire works. Much less the fact of, to be honest with you, it's not just the Roman Empire that aren't great at looking after needy people, so over in this corner and the outskirts of the Roman Empire, this group of people start to live Differe. And and they do so through the power of the spirit, but they do so in the way of God that tracks its way right back to Deuteronomy as we saw. And, and I think sometimes what we think is the church is if we can't change the world. 

[00:15:12] John: Yep. 
 

[00:15:12] David: We're actually failing. And, and I think a lot of people live with huge guilt because they can't change the world. But I, I believe that changing the world is always God's responsibility. The call of the church is to witness and notice that words in here, in verse, the apostles gave their testimony, but that's the same as the word witness. 

[00:15:34] I. I'm not being dismissive here of the work of the church. He hear me well. But I think the reason it matters to do the small something in your area, you, you're a person and there's, there's, there's one person that you see that you can help. Or you're a church and there's one small group and some people will come to you and say, But what's the point? 

[00:15:54] It's not making a difference, and actually, Well, not only does it make a difference to the people that you're actually working with, but you're witnessing to something. Right? You're, you're speaking to a different way. And, and, and the story of Revelation at least shows us that God will eventually bring the whole world into that way. 

[00:16:15] And we will, and we, the church will then be shown to have been witnesses to that. And, and so, and I think the church, I, I think about this slavery. Conversation, which is so decidedly ugly across world history. But like in in, in the United Kingdom, it was a group of Christians that were convinced that it began with them being convinced that slavery was wrong, Right? 

[00:16:39] And then eventually them living out that narrative and it, it actually showing. Wilberforce's work in parliament, eventually convinced parliament that this is a better way to live. And, and I think this beauty in, in not being so depressed about our inability to change anything, but to be faithful witnesses to the way of God for God in in the world. 

[00:17:04] John: Completely agree. Completely agree. I, it certainly helps my faith, David, and as a, as a follower of Jesus, I look at issues of. Facing our society all around us. And, and I feel powerless outside of a dynamic move of God to change any of that. Laws would need to be changed, attitudes need to be changed, et cetera, et cetera. 

[00:17:25] So, but, but if we can, if we in our local Christian community level and our local towns, villages, and cities, can literally model this alternative way model. I mean, you, you imagine what Juno 15 in the context of Israel looks like to the surrounding nations around Israel. 

[00:17:48] David: Hmm. No, totally 

[00:17:49] John: This becomes dynamically. I mean, who wouldn't, Who wouldn't want to consider making the journey across the border and become part of a continent community whose God establish? 

[00:18:01] Protection for equality and, and rights in social justice and actually provision in the midst of hardship. So, so actually this becomes an incredible. example, a light in the darkness. And I, and again, for me, first place we've gotta practice, practice. This is within the family of faith. That's can, can we like the early church, empowered by the spirit and, and moved by the resurrection of Jesus. 

[00:18:31] Can we, as a local Christian community, Begin a serious journey to model this idea to our world, to model these dynamic powerful kingdom ideas, which, if given a chance, will change the world, but, but at least can be a light in darkness to a world until that moment happens. And, and, and I think that's what's happening here in the big of X. 

[00:18:57] And I think you're getting, you're getting. A willingness to surrender autonomy for this Kingdom of God idea. And it's been demonstrated in ways that are going to get people's attention, that here's a community willing to sacrifice their own financial. You could argue wellbeing and security in some cases. 

[00:19:20] I mean, if you're starting to sell houses and starting to sell fields, and that's a serious, that's a serious real estate 

[00:19:28] idea. But, but you're prepared to do it for the greater good of the community of which you are part cuz cuz it's really fascinating. that, that in both cases, both Barnabas's case and the general commentary, that the money is led at the apostles feet. 

[00:19:45] So there's clearly what's what's being done here is that, that they're asking the spiritual leadership to be the executors of this gift. Make sure this is distributed properly and unfairly and with, with equity to those who are in need. So, so there's,  

[00:20:04] David: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:20:04] John: idea. Very challenging idea. 

[00:20:07] David: Even that speaks to the ownership, doesn't it? That so, So these people are selling land or houses, but then. And let me try and articulate what what's crunching around in my head. John, let me explain this better. That no one claimed private ownership of any possessions is what it says in verse 32. 

[00:20:30] And it's not struck me until you said it. Just there. That so true is that statement that, that they didn't claim the ownership, that when they sold the land of the house, they brought. The proceeds to the apostles and they didn't even hold onto the right to decide how the money was used. Like, that's, that's, I, I'm realizing I'm just repeating what you're saying, but what a, what a thought that, that I'm not gonna say here, I'm giving you for this. 

[00:21:00] To do this with it, it's, you will distribute this on the basis of where you see need. The, the trust in that and the genuine handing over of, of responsibility and ownership is, is, that's why I say what I go back to what I said in the last episode. If this isn't a work of the Holy Spirit 

[00:21:23] John: Oh 
 

[00:21:23] David: I don't know what is, 

[00:21:25] John: For sure, 

[00:21:26] David: Then that brings us to Barnabas. 

[00:21:28] You alluded to him just there he just appears in the story in the last two verse. He's this cite called Joseph, who was such a character that he earned himself a nickname, which was a son of a encouragement. If, if I was to have a nickname, that would be a really nice reputation to have, wouldn't it? 

[00:21:48] John: Yeah. And, and isn't it striking like that Barnabas seems to be doing, or Joseph, let's call him his first name. First of all, Joseph seems to be doing what others are doing, but he gets marked out. I, so, so if you, if you look at what Joseph of Cypress does and you read the previous verse, you're going, Yeah, he's just doing what everybody else did. 

[00:22:10] Right? So, you've, From time to time people sold lions or houses and brought them and put the money for the seals at the apostle's feet, and it was distributed. And then it just, it's like, okay, here's a personal, here's a private example of that. But somehow, whatever Barnabas or Joseph did and how he did it stood out to such an extent that the apostles. 

[00:22:35] They actually say. Okay, so, So this seems to suggest that Barnabas doesn't just get the name Barnabas because of this one action. It seems to suggest this is an expression of a pattern. This is a man that has been encouraging people because no one else in X four got a name change there. It Barnabas is singled out for this. 

[00:22:59] David: Yeah. 
 

[00:23:00] John: And I think it's pointing to maybe behind the scenes or in between the lines. This man more was going on here, but here he is liquidating an asset. Hey, seriously, like modern water world, you, you only sell buy, you don't sell to give. It's, he's liquidating an asset and giving that away. 

[00:23:24] I mean, and any generation in any time in history, that's a pretty spectacular thing to do and he's doing it willingly and this lovely son of encouragement and, and I think. It? I think so. I'm argu from silence. This is really risky and our, our listeners will know our hearts by now. So take all of this with a little bit of a pinch of salt this bit. 

[00:23:45] But I think the change of name is not just a reflection of that one action. I think this is an action reflecting a pattern. Hence. Hence he singled out. And then if we look at the rest of the book of Acts, he follows the same pattern. 

[00:24:01] David: Mm. 
 

[00:24:01] John: Barnabus keeps popping up and doing just amazing things. We, we, we see him as a friend of Saul representing Saul to the Apostles. 

[00:24:11] When, when Saul gets radically converted, we see him, going to Antioch and then finding Saul at Tarsis and bringing them back. And you could argue he releases the Ministry of Soul to the world and then of. We, we've reflected on, in another podcast where he defends John Mark. He takes John Mark with him disciples, and of course the rest, as they say is history as far as 

[00:24:34] John Mark is concerned. 

[00:24:35] So you, so you're getting a  

[00:24:36] David: There's a great, there's a great book 

[00:24:38] John: there's an unspoken pattern before, Sorry, 

[00:24:40] David: said there's a great book out there on that I'll put the link in our, our show notes to John's book on John Mark for anyone that wants to 

[00:24:50] John: you. Bless. You're so. 

[00:24:52] David: But I think John, you're, , you're totally, you're totally right. like this guy's reputation is such that when Word appears that Saul may have come to faith, who should we send, send the son of encouragement, 

[00:25:04] John: . Absolutely. I think it lends into this, this pattern and Barnabas seems to be held up as if, if Luke is showing us, here's a corporate community, moved by the power of the resurrection and by the power of the spirit  

[00:25:21] David: mm.  
 

[00:25:21] John: these things, then Luke really cleverly holds up an individual and names this thing and gives a bit of a bit of. 

[00:25:29] Awareness here. Here's a man now leaning into this idea and completely, completely bind into the idea of the surrender of his autonomy in certain areas in order to forward and, and bless the kingdom of God and the church. And it's just, I, I think it's a, a beautiful act of trust in his part to. 

[00:25:54] David: and, and, and actually, I, I love even. The storytelling of it to just begin to introduce Barnabas to us in this way. And, this character as, as you and I have talked about in another episode, he just, he does like, like you say, he tracks this beautiful story, but what a, what an interesting place to bring him in this, This guy is genuinely committed to this and we see this. 

[00:26:19] He becomes this almost model in the story of just, of what the Holy Spirit does in a person and how that works its way out. Whether it's the apostles going, listen, you know that Saul guy seems quite dangerous. Let's send the most encouraging person we have . And but also the fact that Barnabas is willing to do this. 

[00:26:36] But you then, if you come back to this story, this is a guy with skin in the game. He has, he has committed he sold a field. I mean, think. Think about even the trust in that because I, I think we've gotta be very cautious and careful when we read the, the New Testament to think about structures of wealth and power, right? 

[00:26:58] The general perception of the, of the Greek or Roman world and the Roman Empire is that the wealthy made up. 

[00:27:07] And there's some argument amongst scholars about how much they made up, but basically the argument ranges between. Two and a half or 3%, or 1%. Right. So it's, I say that with irony, it's not like huge disagreement and, and basically everything below that, two and a half percent of the Roman Empire. 

[00:27:27] So the world that Jesus is born into, the world that Paul lives in, in Barnabas, lives in. Everything below that, they say people are either living at subsistence level, marginally above subsistence level, or below subsistence level. And now to be clear on this, subsistence level means you have food. Today. 

[00:27:50] Right. And marginally above subsistence level might mean, and you have a good idea of where food's coming from tomorrow and below subsistence level is you don't have enough food today. Think about the, the parable of the, the, we've talked about the parable of the landowner and the, the workers in the vineyard. 

[00:28:08] This is people who are just like, If I don't get a full salary today, I can't buy enough food for today, and now I'm in trouble tomorrow. The likelihood of let's not read Barnas and immediately assume this is a guy with immense wealth, right? There's nothing else in the text shows us to him that way. 

[00:28:25] So to sell a field is potentially, and we're still in arguments of silence, but just within the context to sell a field. Isn't. It's unlikely that selling a field is just, Oh, I have some spare land that I don't know what to do with. A field is where you grow things. So a field is where you create subsistence for yourself. 

[00:28:47] So there is a possible way to read this text that this is Barnabas, not just divesting of some extras that he have. This could be him absolutely trusting his life to the way of Jesus by even. Similar to Elisha, when he burns his burns, his, his, his, his, his plow and sacrifices his oxies because it's interesting to me that Barnabas then appears in this story afterwards, apparently with time on his hand to go around and do things. 

[00:29:16] So there's a little bit of me wonders if there might not be not an illusion to the Elisha model. But Barnabas is, is literally all in now. My, I've, I've left my, like Peter did, I've left my fishing boats. My way of life is now, divested and liquidated and now used for the poor. So now I'm trusting God, I. 

[00:29:37] And able to go around the world being a missionary cuz he doesn't clearly need to look after this field. Now. And I might even argue the fact that Barnabas can now travel the world is because he doesn't have fields to look after. A huge argument from silence John. But I don't know if that might just give us a little bit of a picture of what might be going on in this sort of context. 

[00:29:57] John: Yeah, I, I, I wouldn't, as we often say, we may not build our house on that idea, but it's worth keeping on the table, that is, I think that's definitely, and I love your Elisha illusion there, that idea of is this Barnabas putting, not, not just some assets he has, but, but. 

[00:30:19] Also nailing his future to the, to service of this kingdom. And therefore he is in many ways not only investing in the poverty of others, but he is laying down his life for something beyond that. And it might, it might explain, the, the strength of the apostles reaction. , very, very few people get this reaction. 

[00:30:42] So there is something else seemingly going on here that Barnabas has demonstrated that cause the apostles to rename this man from Joseph of 

[00:30:52] David: Mm. 
 

[00:30:52] John: To, to Barnabas, son of comfort, son of consolation and encouragement. Just beautiful, beautiful stuff. And I do, I do love this is Barnabas. 

[00:31:02] Trusting the Lord with his future is Barnabas surrendering. His past is Barnabas saying, in this act of generosity, not only am I committed to looking after the poor, but I am releasing. Everything that's holding me so that I can be totally focused on the kingdom. It's, it's, it's it's certainly worth keeping on the table as a reflection and a consideration. 

[00:31:25] And of course, again, it strikes to the heart of our big conversation over the last two podcasts. No one is forcing this man to do. This is an act of freedom. This is an act where he is surrendering a means of financial autonomy, and he's surrendering that to a greater purpose. And I think that is something, deeply powerful and challenging in the life of Barnabas. 

[00:31:51] David: And of course the story doesn't end there, and we'll leave that for another episode, but, It is again, cuz I also want to marvel at Luke's just brilliant writing, so you have this Barnabas, this son of encouragement who sells a field and maybe he gets highlighted because the apostles are like, Wow, this guy's all in. 

[00:32:12] But he sold a field, brought the money and laid it at the apostles feet. But a man named. And Anais with the consent of his wife Safara sold a piece of property and with his wife's knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds and brought only apart and left it at the Apostle's feets. Can that be our cliff hanger for the next episode? 

[00:32:34] John 
 

[00:32:35] John: I think it needs to be. I think it needs to be. Bless you.