Saints & Geography | Disruptive Presence 41

In which John and David notice that there's more going on in Acts 9 than just things about Paul. Sandwiched in between the story of Paul's call and what comes next we have a curious little account of some things about Peter. As you might expect, there's more there if we slow down to look.

Episode 98 of the Two Texts Podcast | Disruptive Presence 41

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Transcript

Transcript Autogenerated by Descript.com

[00:00:00] John: David, it is fantastic to be back again and I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed just marinating in the Saul Paul story of chapter nine. That was just incredible, isn't it? Again, it, it, it shows us the value of just slowing this thing down a little bit and, and getting a real sense of the momentousness of this event with with.

[00:01:24] Saul Paul, and my goodness, a tipping point moment. It, it could be argued in the, in the book of Acts. So a truly, truly incredible moment and and I hope our, hope, our listeners caught our enthusiasm. We were, we were loving that and, and, and just enjoying that journey.

[00:01:41] David: Well, you don't want to try and suggest that any one part of the story is less important than the other, but I think that chapters nine and chapters 10 are, are genuine watersheds in the story by the time you start chapter 11, things have changed and everybody knows it. So I think it's right to spend some time in this section.

[00:02:01] John: It really is. And in fact and this sort of helps the, the chronology for our, our listeners this morning I was doing a bit of reflection on chapter 10 ahead of, ahead of the curve. We're not gonna get there today or this week, but, oh, I cannot wait to get to chapter 10. David, I'm already excited about chapter 10, and I think we'll be in chapter 10 for about three years because it's just incredible.

[00:02:23] Chapter 10 is, is amazing. But, but we're, we're, we're not getting to chapter 10 yet. We're gonna finish chapter nine off, and there's this lovely gear shift where we move away from Saul, who's dominated chapter nine. And now we get this like beautiful little shift of, of gear with a focus on Peter and I.

[00:02:45] I do love that. And it's just this lovely, because of course something's gonna happen in chapter 10. We're now Peter. Is a very, very important player, and it's almost like Dr. Luke is gently easing us away from Saul for a little moment or two, and Peter's gonna become the mean focus of the story. And and so the end of chapter nine seems to reflect that.

[00:03:07] David: Yes, it does feel a little strange to have chapter nine with everything that we've dealt with. All of a sudden have this little moment about Peter. But I, I've been reflecting as to whether when they put in the chapter divisions in Acts, whether part of that was, there's a realization that Acts 10 starts another watershed.

[00:03:30] So they want to keep that as a sort of fresh. Fresh jump into that reading.

[00:03:36] John: Yeah, absolutely. ALO, as, as we are probably gonna reflect together on that. You, you can see the geographical trajectory changing here in the world of Peter. So there's, there's love. There's a lovely little geographic staging moving in, in the end of chapter nine, towards chapter 10 which which we'll pick up together.

[00:03:53] So do you wanna read it for us? Chapter nine from verse 32 to the end of the chapter, and that sort of sets us up.

[00:04:00] David: Absolutely. So, I'm, I'm gonna read from the new revised standard version today largely because I love the way they render the Greek at the beginning of verse 32, and it reads like this. So Acts nine, verse 32. Now, as Peter went here and there among all of the believers, he came down also to the saints living in Leida.

[00:04:24] There he found a man named Anus who had been bedridden for eight years, for he was paralyzed. Peter said to him, anus, Jesus Christ heals you. Get up and make your bed, and immediately he got. And all the residents of Lida and Sharon saw him and turned to the Lord. Now in Joppa there was a disciple whose name was Tabitha, which in Greek is Dorcas.

[00:04:52] She was devoted to good works and acts of charity. At that time, she became ill and died. When they had washed her, they laid her in a room upstair. Since Leida was near Joppa, the disciples who heard that Peter was there, sent two men to him with the request, please come to us without delay. So Peter got up and went with him, and when he arrived, they took him to the room upstairs, all the widows stood beside him, weeping and showing tunics and other clothing that Dorcas had made while she was with them.

[00:05:28] Peter put all of them outside and then he knelt down and prayed. He turned to the body and said, Tabitha, get up. And then she opened her eyes and seen Peter. She sat up, he gave her his hand and he helped her up, and then calling the saints and the widows, he showed her to be alive. This became known throughout Joppa, and many believed in the. Meanwhile, he stayed in Joppa for some time with a certain Simon, a Tanner.

[00:06:02] John: Beautiful. Beautiful. And that last, I love that last little reflection, Simon, the Tanner, which is a little, probably winking and odd. Chapter 10. But we'll get to that, we'll get to that. I, I, I, I think I'm at the stage of excitement where, you start to read a text and you, when you, when you soak in a text long.

[00:06:20] You are picking up the breadcrumbs, you're seeing the little clues even before certain things happen, and, and you realize that even how Dr. Luke is positioning some of this narrative is, is to nudge us into something else as well as to celebrate the actual thing we are in. 

[00:06:38] David: . Well, and, and of course the, and I assume this is what you're hinting towards, but, but a tanner, somebody who works with leather, somebody who works with dead flash, this is not, this is the trailer, basically. Verse 43 is the trailer for what's coming. Why is Peter staying with somebody who is doing unclean work?

[00:06:59] Is that, is that kind of the hint that you're thinking about there?

[00:07:02] John: that's the hint, David. That's the hint. So something's coming in chapter 10, which maybe points to that uncleanness around this dynamic. And, and Luke could have said well just, Peter stayed in somebody's house.

[00:07:15] David: exactly.

[00:07:16] John: but he says, he says he drops that bit of detail. Right? And, and I love that.

[00:07:19] Again, I think our listeners will probably pick this up about me and you when there's a piece of detail in like that we're gone. Why? Why has he dropped that in? And, and of course for Luke, I, I think that's more than just information. I think that's a hint of, of what is to. I, I, I, I love the idea in this, in the passage we read because obviously there's two different sort of moments of miraculous intervention here.

[00:07:43] But, but I, I dunno if you picked it up, David, before we even get to the miracles, that just the sense of geographic importance, there does seem to be a real under, there's, there's a reference to many different places here and, and there's a sense in which, oh, this seems to. Moving somewhere. And, and for our, for our listeners, if they, if they grab a first century map, what really helps you is if you, if you went from Jerusalem, sort of northwest along the main trading route, you literally hit just over halfway to the coast, you hit Lida.

[00:08:21] And then if you follow virtually that line at Northwest Line, you hit. And then if you look at the map, the first century Map Joppa is, is south of Caesarea, which of course we end up in Caesarea in chapter 10. So, so the, the, it feels like Dr. Luke is doing two amazing things. He's not only He's not only showing us that there's probably a ministry trajectory happening here with Peter.

[00:08:51] So Peter goes from Jerusalem to Leida to Joppa, and then he's eventually gonna end up in Caesarea. But there's also, there's also almost, with that, David, I, it is how I felt it, there's almost with that a sort of a a, a deeper message in this trajectory. There's a moving away from Jerusalem for Peter. And moving towards something beyond this moment. So we've already seen Paul or Saul out there, sort of in a more hellenized context. Peter, we've always stood always understood as being very much centralized in a Jewish context. Very much to Jerusalem centric would be fair. But here we see Peter. Post are sort of spreading of the gospel across not only Samaritan territory, but gentile territory.

[00:09:41] It's starting to move out, and now we've got Peter moving away from Jerusalem and moving towards something. It's, do, do you think that's there in terms of both, not just, there's not just a geographical trajectory here, but a ministry trajectory that, that Luke may be really? Highlighting for us, like putting, putting T lights down and saying follow the lights, sort of thing.

[00:10:03] David: Yes. Yes. , I, I think there's significance. A, a bunch of levels that at least are worth pausing over and, and wondering about I think Luke's trajectory in the gospel where everything is coming to Jerusalem, ha ha, has at least alerted us to pay attention to how Luke Usey geography in his storytelling, that he wants to draw highlights to us.

[00:10:31] I think that our act starts with this move of. The gospel out the way. I think the fact that we end up in, in, I mean, think of the names of the places you've mentioned, right? We're in Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the, the, the, the city of Shalom, then we move out to, to Lida and the Sharon.

[00:10:48] I mean, the, the. The version that I read it, it talks about the residents of Lida and Sharon as if they're two towns. But Lida is, is a, a town or a city. And Sharon is an area, isn't it? This an area which spreads right through into jpa. Jpa, sorry. And up into. but think about the names Lida Joppa, and then you get Caesar R.

[00:11:10] Right? And so, let's just think about, let's think about who might live there, right? And, and not, obviously not the, the Caesar, but this is, this is the, it's a, it's a very romanized city, isn't it? I mean, this is where like, Pilot lived out a lot of the time.

[00:11:26] The Romans didn't like staying in Jerusalem. It was too hot and dry. So you go with a place by the sea, I mean, which is quite a, quite a hike really. I mean, how they, how they, how they managed to keep any sort of control of things is, is beyond me. But the, I think you're seeing this trajectory.

[00:11:43] Towards the areas that are increasingly further away from the heart of the sort of Jewish religious centers. So Peter is going to start encountering, well, tanners, for example, he's gonna start encountering and it's as if the geography is doubling down on what's coming Peter's way. I, I dunno if that's what you're seeing, but that's

[00:12:07] John: Oh, for sure. Absolutely. And I loved your emphasis there on sort of Caesar Rhea, it, it was the Roman administrative seat.

[00:12:17] David: Yes.

[00:12:17] John: although, as you've alluded to, we, we see, we see the likes of pilot passing certain judgments in Jerusalem, the actual administrative heart of. Of the Romans over Israel was seated in Caesarea.

[00:12:33] And of course it's, by the time we get to chapter 10, there's no, there's no sort of coincidence then that we happen to see a Roman centurion at the heart of a story in Caesarea. So you get this lovely, lovely idea. And, and, and I think David too. I just noticed like the, the, the strategic nature of these, these areas.

[00:12:54] Lida was a really important sort of administration town, administrative town on the, on that trading route. That's a, if, if you look at that map, that's a trading route that can. Sort of from Lida. You can go northeast of Samaria, you can go northwest of Joppa, you can go further north of Caesar, you can go south to the area that we met, the Ethiopian Munich and Philip.

[00:13:20] David: Hmm.

[00:13:21] John: So it's, it's a not inconsequential town.

[00:13:24] David: Yes.

[00:13:25] John: And it's clear and what's really beautiful, it's clear that you've got a, a growing and developing community of the. Both in Lida and in jpa, and to some extent in, in Caesarea. So, so these, these major administrative centers are at least influential administrative centers are being impacted by, by the community of followers of the way.

[00:13:49] And, and I think that's, I, I, I, I would say to our, our listeners, when you're reading something like the Book of Acts and you're getting a lot of places mentioned, I, I mean, I suppose it would be in every. But, but often those places are being mentioned because maybe there is a pattern that, that they're want, that Luke is wanting you to see.

[00:14:09] Something's going on here. These aren't just, these aren't just random places that an As and Dorcas slash Tabitha sort of lived. There's something else being said here, and I think in this case it really does feel that way, especially as we move towards chapter 10.

[00:14:27] David: And that's, just good advice when reading any of Luke's work is that, I don't think the details, and we've said this so many times before, but the details are not throwaway. There's, he's, he's inviting you. He does seem to understand the geography and is, and is concerned that you are tracking the geography Doesn.

[00:14:47] John: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. I, I, I loved, I loved the, the way that the N R S V sort of put Peter went from placed, placed. How, how

[00:14:56] David: Here and there. And that was Peter went here and there amongst, amongst the believers.

[00:15:02] John: I love that, but, but I love that. I love that little gorgeous amongst the believers, and it, again, it's not, it doesn't feel random. It feels like Peter is going deliberately to these communities outside of Jerusalem now to strengthen them, to encourage them, to pastor them, to shepherd them, to support them.

[00:15:27] And, and that seems to be, again, a growing pattern in the, in the BU acts, there is this sort of trying to extend pastoral shepherding support to some of these slightly more isolated communities.

[00:15:43] David: Yes. Yes. That, that definitely seems to be, seems to be what's going on. That there is a, there is a care and concern to, to, to reach. I mean I think it's, it's interesting on a couple levels. One, that there are communities in advance of the apostles. I think that is interesting and we're not surprised by chapter nine.

[00:16:02] See that. But that the apostles definitely see. Role. They are responsible for this. They, they, they want to make sure they're caring for this. It's interesting to me I, I also think this word saints, that has appeared now and this is going to become a growing word in New Testament tradition, really.

[00:16:22] But it's interesting that it starts leaking out here, that this becomes the, the word that Luke likes to use of. Of the people who follow Jesus. And, and I think it's quite interesting, like we have this one sense, the n RSV has the word believers in there, but it's, it, it's supplying a word to, to define who we're talking about.

[00:16:45] It's interesting that we often talk as. Moderns about Christians as believers, but, but we often refrain from talking about Christians in, in the language that the New Testament increasingly prefers to use, which is the ho haos, the, the, the holy ones. I mean, Saint is just a Latin derivation. Santu. So is the, is is the, the Greek word.

[00:17:15] John: hmm.

[00:17:15] David: So, so whenever I'd say to anyone, whenever you see the word saint in your mind, trying to, this means the holy one, right? So, I think that's quite significant because. Well, for a couple reasons. I actually think that, I think it's reductionist to talk about Christianity as a belief, right? I actually think it's even potentially dangerous if the only language you use about Christianity is as a belief, right?

[00:17:41] Think about how act as the followers of the way, right? It's whereas belief in our modern reading, I'm not criticizing the use of belief in the. But in our modern reading, belief is a cognizance. It's a, it's something that I think, it's something that I, that I believe, whereas what we've encountered next so far is there's a following.

[00:18:01] There's a participation. There's, I mean, goodness, we're, we're selling our whole houses, to give to the poor We're, we're leaving things to follow. Right. But there's also a resonance for me. Reading this with a, with an Old Testament lens of which I'm sure is accurate because that's what Peter, and that's what Luke, and that's what all the early Christians are doing.

[00:18:24] Belief is something that I do. I believe in this thing. Holiness is something which is granted to me. It's something that God does and I really love the language of Saints for that reason, that it keeps us present to the idea. That this is the work of God that makes us a saint rather than a work that I have done.

[00:18:46] Does that, does that, does that

[00:18:47] John: We. It's beautiful and, and in, in terms of our modern squeamishness around Saint, why, why do you think we're reluctant to use that word so much? Is it, is it because maybe we have an understanding of Saint that's not how the biblical world would've seen it in, in terms of a, a core idea behind it.

[00:19:11] David: Yeah, I mean, we definitely have elevated the word, don't we? Y y you like I would, I would quite happily talk about, the gospel according to St. Luke. The, the, St. Paul's letter to the Romans St. Anthony's monastic work in the desert. I, I think I, I think there's a tendency for us, we have, we've specialized the word saint and, and, and this is where I think we have to, we have to sort of navigate a careful path, right?

[00:19:40] Because I don't want to dismiss the works of the people who are now what do you call it? What am I trying to say? Some people are classified as saints and the work that they have done is is quite remarkable and.

[00:19:59] John: Hmm.

[00:20:00] David: And deserve it of the honor and respect that we give it to. Think about like, mother Theresa, who has now been sainted by the church.

[00:20:07] Like, my goodness, I don't want anything I say to sound like I'm diminishing the works that Mother Theresa have done. But, but one of the dangers of specializing the words Saint, I think is that it. It distance is just the regular Christian from an awareness that Paul's preferred language for us is that we are the holy ones of God.

[00:20:28] And I think we need to nuance that somehow to say, in, in, in saying that referring to ourselves as saints is appropriate. It's not to diminish our respect for others, but actually to hold to an idea that holiness is something granted to us by God and does, does that make sense? I don't think I'd explained that very well, but,

[00:20:50] John: No. No, but I, I, I think, I think that's right. I, I think we often think of, of Saint in terms of behavior, this sort of idea of, of model or exceptional exemplary behavior. And, and I think, I think one of the things certainly in my. World where I probably would've been reluctant to call myself Saint was because I, I saw that as sort of a very behavioral orientated world and not a positional one.

[00:21:19] And I, I love the language of both Old and New Testament around us. When God speaks to his people at the Mount of at, at the Food of Mount Sinaii, he refers to them as a holy.

[00:21:31] David: mm.

[00:21:31] John: No. Now, they clearly weren't a perfect nation. They weren't they weren't, sort of. A utopic nation, they were still a nation being formed, but of course in holy there, they, they, they were set apart by God.

[00:21:45] This wasn't something they had attained. It was something they had received. They've now received a position of holy people because God's done that. And of course, and, and of course we're, we're dealing with Peter. Peter picks that up himself in his own letter when he refers to the church. The royal priesthood, the holy nation of God.

[00:22:06] So you get this sort of sense of it's more positional, something that God has conferred upon us than it is just behavioral. And I think if we. I think if we grab that idea and understood that this is, this is not, not about me saying I'm better than someone, but rather this is us reflecting a grace of God upon a community that says, this community is holy.

[00:22:31] This community is set apart, this community is, has, has had a grace conferred upon it that allows it to be.

[00:22:41] David: Yes.

[00:22:41] John: I, I, can I say this? Not irrespective, but even, even in spite of our behavior sometimes and, and this, that tension of the Corinthian church, you lack no spiritual gift, but, but it was dysfunction city, certainly in first Corinthians.

[00:22:54] A, a highly dysfunctional church, but yet not lacking spirituality. So those tensions of behavior and status, those tensions of. What I do and who I am and, and how I'm seen through the grace of God. I, I think, I think that journey can help us maybe grapple with saint a little bit more comfortably without, without me trying to put myself in the category of some sort of super canonized person.

[00:23:20] But, but recognizing actually as a follower of Jesus, as someone who has come. To relationship with Jesus by God's grace. I am a saint in that sense,

[00:23:32] David: And, and I think, it's easy to live. I think within that nuance of we. All who follow Jesus are saints, but we're not writing st before our names. I think we can sort of almost live in a, in a realization that there is a, a formal designation of certain saints and then there's the day-to-day.

[00:23:54] I mean, you've got this idea in the Apostle's creed. If you think about, the earliest confession of the church really. We have po can post biblical Christian confession. You have this idea of the commun, I believe in the communion of the Saints. And I I, I really like, I I really like the, the Greek Orthodox take on this which I looked up just quickly cause I wanted to, sure.

[00:24:20] I was, I was quoting it properly in, in, in Greek orthodoxy, the. Is a communion of saints, an assembly of angels and humans from heaven and earth divided into what that is known as The church militant. And the church triumphant. Right? And so, so their take is, which I really love, is that, that basically when you are baptized into the way to, to use Luke's language you are you.

[00:24:51] Brought into communion with the saints. So we are all knit together as the holy ones of God. And the only definition that they want to define between the two of us is some have died and some have not died yet. And the ones who have died are called the the, the Saints church triumphant. And the ones who have not died are the church militant.

[00:25:10] And I dunno, maybe it's my Celtic roots, but I love this idea of the living saints of God being known as the church militant.

[00:25:20] John: Yes. And again, there's a, there's another word we have to use very, very, very carefully in our modern world, but yes, absolutely, and, and of course that that saint stuff, if, once we delve in, Into the New Testament. You, you've, you've got, you've got just beautiful some of the openings to these beautiful letters written by Paul and others.

[00:25:42] I'm just, I'm just literally, I just turned up Ephesians Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God to the saints. Which are at Ephesus. I mean, it's, it's, it is beautiful, isn't it? It's just absolutely unto the faithful in, and, and, and I love his introduction there because he's, he's separating out the difference between position and behavior.

[00:26:02] He says to the Saints, which are in Ephesus, unto the faithful in Christ Jesus. So you get this sort of sense of he's command. Who they are. And he's also commending how they are, that lovely sense of your ascent. And that's, that's to do with the grace of God. And then he talks about their faithfulness, which is to do with his sense of, of their commitment, if you like, to the way their commitment to honoring the way and all that they do.

[00:26:29] I love that tension, dear. But I think that's, that's there isn't it? That we're not saints because we behave well, we're saints because Jesus Christ. By his grace and mercy has folded us into the community of, of faith, and, and that's the only reason we get to be called in any shape or description as Saint

[00:26:49] David: Well that's, I mean, Romans 12, first Corinthians 12, speak to this notion of Christians are one people, right? They are somehow knit together. They are so, so this idea of the communion of the saints, is it that terminology is just a way of expressing what we see in the New Testament really, really strongly.

[00:27:09] But, but to your point, I th I always think that First Corinthians is a fascinating introduction. First Corinthians chapter one and verse two, you get to the Church of God that is in Corinth and to those who are, and you get a verbal form here, sanctified. But it is just this, this verbal form of, of made holy.

[00:27:29] In Christ Jesus called to be saints together with all those who in every place call in the name of our Lord Jesus, both their Lord and ours. So like verse two of First Corinthians, Paul is making definitely this gathering of every up one up together who are the holy ones of God. Now, very quickly, if you keep reading First Corinthians, you will come to the conclusion that this.

[00:27:56] Status of Saint and holy one is definitely not dependent upon their behavior

[00:28:03] John: Definitely not in Corinth

[00:28:05] David: and. But isn't that the beautiful thing about it, that Paul is actually saying, you're called to be saint, you are knit together with everybody who calls on Jesus. What, what the heck is wrong with you? Like why? Why are you behaving like this?

[00:28:20] But I just think we need to rest, not in a kind of our, who cares how we behave, but just in that realization that this status is saint, is something given to us. And I think, I think it's, it's a, it's stunning and interesting then that, that Luke starts to now begin to use that description of the people of God,

[00:28:42] John: Do you think, you think that's Luke's being influenced by Paul himself in the, in the, in the seating of that inn? I mean, it, it, it feels to me that that's a beautiful connection there that, that, that Luke hanging round with Paul, by the time he comes to write this, has heard this language, seen Paul write like this,

[00:29:00] David: Mm.

[00:29:00] John: that that becomes something.

[00:29:02] He's very deliberately conscious. I mean, he could have just called them followers of the way in, in Leida. He could have just said, believers. But he, he, it's interesting he's seeding the word saint in at different places. You think that's a Paul Appall line influence there, David?

[00:29:16] David: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean possibly, I, I am interested that he, he seems to, it, the word appears dominantly in chapter nine of

[00:29:30] John: Yeah.

[00:29:31] David: And, and I can't help but think it's a little bit of. Paul, Paul uses the word saints almost when, when he's writing to people who would ordinarily not be considered within the Holy Bounds.

[00:29:47] Right. I, I think it alludes to the language of Israel. It alludes to the language of the Old Testament. So I find it significant that it's to the saints in Rome, to the saints in Corinth.

[00:29:58] John: Yeah. Yep,

[00:29:59] David: It's interesting to me that, that the, the heavy saints use in Acts appears in chapter nine as we're approaching chapter 10.

[00:30:07] Right. And is it Luke's way of just reminding you who these people really are? I mean, I couldn't, like, it's one of those, I couldn't build my house on it. But it's interesting that in chapter nine, all of a sudden he wants to refer to them as saints every time. I think that's kind of significant.

[00:30:23] John: And, and of course nine is also significant because Paul, himself, this great Jewish

[00:30:30] David: Hmm.

[00:30:30] John: zealot we, we've had his conversion story and one of the, one of the big ideas that he will, he will not only take the gospel, the good news to the Jewish community, but to the gentile community.

[00:30:41] So it's, it's almost like, like in in Luke's language, there is a little change of emphasis and maybe that coincides with not only. Paul's influence on him, but Paul's influence now in the story as we move towards, towards, from Paul, via Peter into Cornelius in chapter 10. So I, I think, I think they are worth worthwhile reflections for our, for our listeners to, to, to think about.

[00:31:07] But just, I, I suppose as we, as we bring this little podcast there, close. David, I, I, I love back to First Corinthians. I love this gorgeous reminder at the end of the introduction, God is faithful. The one who called you into fellowship with his son, faithful is God. He's the one who's called us to stude.

[00:31:26] He's the one who's faithful in, in helping us to connect our, our, our calling to something and our behaving of something and, and bringing that sort, sort of beautiful sense of this is who I am, positionally now. His faithfulness is about both guarding over that, but also helping me to work out that positional stude in my everyday conduct for the glory of, of the Lord Jesus.

[00:31:59] And, and, and I think that's a beautiful beautiful idea for us in that, in that context.

[00:32:04] David: Well, I think we need to, we, I think Christian life is a lot about living in the tensions, isn't it? Of, of the tensions of of, of, there's probably better way to say it like this, and I'm sure somebody has said it better than this of, of living up to. That which you are called to be. And, and that's what I quite like about what Paul does in First Corinthians chapter one verse two, where he says, sanctified, made holy in Christ Jesus and called to be holy.

[00:32:34] And I love that notion of. Holiness is not some carrot down the down the road that if you, if you x, y, or Zed well enough, you might just reach it. But it's I, who is it that says John? I can't remember Now that says, you know that sometimes the journey of, of, of following Jesus is becoming who you. And, and I, and I like that idea.

[00:32:59] You, you are a holy one of God, so, so become a holy one of God. 

[00:33:04] John: Yes.

[00:33:05] David: I, I, I quite like that as a, not to create any guilt or weight or anything like that, but, but I love that as a sort of call to you are made holy in Christ. So be holy in Christ.

[00:33:17] John: Beautiful, beautiful.