Lost Son x2 | Parables 8

In which John and David look at the parable of the lost son in Luke 15. But is it a parable about only one lost son, or two? And how might understanding a Jewish tradition called Keżażah help us appreciate this parable in a whole new way? And why does David want to know how many hamburgers are made from one cow? 

• Click Here to read the text from Luke 15:11-32 
• Click Here to learn more about Bailey's Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes that John and David mention in this episode 
• Click Here to read about Keżażah 
• Click Here to learn more about the book John bought for his Dad - Bailey's The Cross and the Prodigal  
• Click Here to see a book on grace that David recommended by John Barclay 

Episode 8 of the Two Texts Podcast | Parables of Jesus Series 8

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Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021 

Transcript

David Harvey  0:01  
Hi there. I'm David Harvey. I'm here with John Andrews. And this is the two texts podcast. In this podcast, we're two friends in two different countries here every two weeks talking about different texts from the Bible. This, however, is our one. And so we're bringing you a daily episode of the two of us talking about the parables of Jesus. This is episode eight. It's called lost son times two. 

All right, John. So here we are. Now for part two. We've had a loss sheet, we've had a lost coin. The whole context, as we talked about in the previous episode, is Jesus appears to be hosting a dinner party. In the start of Luke chapter 15, is hosting a dinner party, he's invited all the wrong people, and, and all of the right people. And I'm seeing that with, you know, with quotation marks, all of the right people are a little upset that who Jesus is invited. So Jesus is rolled to what we mistakenly think our kids parables, the lost sheep in the last coin. And then he kind of comes in for his, you know, I feel it, let's use a baseball metaphor. He's stacked his bases. And now he comes into his home run. And, and that's this parable that we kind of know of as the prodigal son. Some newer translations talk about, it's the last son. And I'm noticing that increasingly, modern translations are beginning to just lean a little bit further than that. And like in my translation, it's the last son and his brother is. That's interesting. So it's a Luke chapter 15. And first 11. Yeah, want to take it away. For a while,

John Andrews   1:53  
I'd love to, Jesus continued, there was a man who had two sons, the younger one said to his father, father, give me my share of the estate. So he divided his property between them. Not long after that the younger son got together all he had set off for a distant country, and there squandered his wealth in wild living. After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in the whole country. And he began to be in need. So we went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. When he came to his senses, he said, How many of my father's hired servants of food despair, and here I am starving to death, I will set out and go back to my father and say to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son, make me like one of your hired servants. So he got up and went to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him, and he ran to his son threw his arms around him, and kissed him. The son said to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son. But the father said to the servants quick, bring the best robe and put it on him. put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet, bring the fatted calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate for this sort of mine was dead and there's no alive. He was lost and his phone. So they began to celebrate. Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So we called one of the servants and asked him where he was going, what was going on? Your brother has come, he replied, and your father has killed the fatted calf, because he has him back safe and sound. The older brother became angry, and refuse to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him, but he answered his father Luke, all these years I've been sleeping for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so that I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fatted calf for him. My son, the father said, You are always with me and Everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again. He was lost and is found.

David Harvey  4:52  
It's just so good.

John Andrews   4:55  
It's delicious. It's delicious at every level, absolutely magnificent.

David Harvey  5:00  
And now so if our listeners are, are kind of joining in from yesterday's episode, and it's probably worth listening to yesterday's episode first before you come to this piece, because we're kind of setting a lot up in that. But I find when you kind of marinate in the first two, as we did in the previous episode, like as you're reading this story like is just like all the lights are coming on on the dashboard, aren't they? It's just like, oh, there's that. And oh, there's this and oh, what Jesus is doing, and and you go from these two kind of quick, short parables, to all of a sudden Jesus is like, No, I'm going to tell you a story. And this story has depth to it. It has narrative to it. It's got dialogue. It's it's all in there for us to sort of just wrestle with and where do we want to start? Well,

John Andrews   5:58  
I tell you a thing that really helped me, David, I love Kenneth Bailey. Yes. And some of your listeners may have engaged with Kenneth Bailey, Jesus through Middle Eastern is what a book that is required reading, I

David Harvey  6:12  
think, if you absolutely want to enjoy the Gospels, just buy a copy of that book.

John Andrews   6:17  
Absolutely. Yeah, there are some books you read, and you think, oh, wish I'd written that. And that's one of them. So and Paul through Mediterranean eyes is another one, he wrote a gorgeous little book, I remember buying this from my father, a number of years ago, because my father loved the story of the prodigal son. And so I bought a little book by Kenneth Bailey called the cross and the product. And I read through the book before sort of giving it to my father, you know, in terms of just helping myself understand what it was about. And, and there's a piece of information in there, which revolutionized my thinking around this text I that I'm so grateful to Kenneth Bailey for and it's transformational. And he referred to something, a ceremony or an event or an experience called cases are rare cases are literally means the cutting off. And the idea behind cases are was this in the first century, there was a custom in the world of Jesus that dictated that if a Jewish boy lost the family inheritance amongst Gentiles, and then dirt to return home, the community would break a large clay pot in front of him. And then they would cry out, so and so the name of the boy is cut off from his people. Wow. And then after that was performed, they would have nothing to do with the wayward boy. And it gets worse, right? It gets worse. If they didn't, if that didn't drave, the boy owed and the boy wanted to stay at home wanted to sort of weather the storm, he would have to sit outside the gate of his family home until his father give permission for him to be seen. So he couldn't just walk in the door, he would have to sit outside the front door and wait for the father to invite him in until the father actually summoned him. And of course, you're well aware of the shame culture of those sorts of worlds where the actions of an individual shame a family or shame a culture or she in the village, this is what's going on. So now the father is shamed by the son. Because of the anger of the village, the father has to sort of replicate that anger, and scold his son and make his son apologize for everything that's been done. And in the hope that he would be accepted back. But sometimes in some of the records, it suggests that the sun was sent to the next village to live. He wouldn't even be accepted back now. When Billy unpack that, David, honestly, lights came on all over this, this story. Because if the audience of Jesus knew that, and Jesus knows that, and maybe the audience members, some of them have experienced cases, or because they don't want to experience cases, they do not want to go home and maybe some of the religious community have helped enact

Unknown Speaker  9:30  
cases are

John Andrews   9:32  
then this story suddenly goes nuclear. I mean, we are, he's gone from sort of gentle hors d'oeuvres, and then he's, like, whacked us with the main course. And it's full of space. It's hot. It's burning a ton of them. Yeah. It's just all going on. So

David Harvey  9:53  
I love that. I love that image. We started with a prawn cocktail, and now it's a habanero chilly,

John Andrews   10:00  
absolutely suck on that, Lord, I see to see if you can manage not to cry or run to the toilet at the same time. I think I think if we accept Bailey on this, which I'm happy to do, yes, I think it's like Jesus is going nuclear on this. And suddenly you're into a dramatic story that has new wants that just touches everybody in the room.

David Harvey  10:25  
You don't even need to have seen kisses. You just need to know it exists and need to hear about it. You know? I mean, it's interesting that we have this in our recent history, don't we? So some years ago, I had a friend and his wife was talking to me one day after church and her family member, I think it was like her great uncle or something I just had just passed away. And he had, because of his faith, during the Second World War, had chosen not to fight and became a conscientious objector. No, what was fascinating about this man is he had to go to court to defend himself. And he had to he had to do you know, the kind of to prove that his faith was leading him to object to fighting. But once it was accepted that yes, this he wasn't a coward, it was that his faith prevented him from fighting. The shame in the village that he lived was massive, to the extent that it made the local newspaper that he had been classified as a conscientious objector. And in and it was listed in the obituary section, you know, this, that? Like, like, wow. And, and so like, why I tell that story just now is that we have relatively recent modern examples of public ceremony that says this person's behavior is unacceptable to us, and we're now going to shame them. And we have things that we can do. And this man then lived with this for a long, long time in this village of Oh, yeah, that's him, you know. So roll that back into Jesus's time. What I'm saying is it's not unknown to us that cultures exist are things that we do, and things that we don't do that, does that make sense that we sort of heal? So I find it complete. I mean, Bailey's the evidence of Bailey's work is that he knows what he's talking about. And but then even to listen to it, you think, yeah, this is brilliant. And what it really is clever is that Jesus kind of goes, Well imagine if you lost a sheep majan if you lost a coin, and then he goes, or what about this story? You know, are you sitting comfortably, because now I'm going to throw in a story that just get to I mean, the best, I think if I was paraphrasing this, there was a man who had two sons, and the younger of them came to his father and said, Dad, I wish you were dead. Because that's how you normally get your inheritance, you have to die. And essentially, this young son is saying, I you're not dying quick enough dead. You know, which is like, even in our society, which is way more individualistic, and way more driven by personal concern, rather than, you know, your family kind of qualities like this is a horrendous, like, none of us would, would ever dream of saying this is some sort of level and yet here, Jesus starts the story with this I then crazily enough, the father does it. He actually, you know, and there's some reference, I think that that is if the sun insists in this sort of kind of context. If the sun insists that No, I will not apologize, this is what I want. I've read some scholars who have who have suggested that, that when the sun is given his inheritance, and Lee the family would hold something of a funeral service that you know, and, and, you know, and, and would whatever of his belongings they could find would kind of get wrapped up and buried. And that there's there is some people and I wonder, sometimes the bit of parallel mania going on in this where people are trying to make the parable work too neatly. But the sense of almost, you know, this declaration, your son is no dead to you in that sense. You know, and it's interesting just to jump to the end of the parable for a moment, and it's just worth mentioning, that when there's this little tete a tete between the dad and the second son, he the dad says, All I have is yours yours, which is true.

Like, you know, you have you had everything because because the rest was gone. You know, he took it and he spent it all you know, so so there's a you know, we need to come back to that as we close the parable off, but it's a really interesting point that there's the parable holds its consistency there that there is no only harm Left and you know, and is that perhaps, you know, one of the problems that the older son has, like, do I now have to share this again a second time with this with this reprobate that has just turned off and come back. But the nuance john, the nuance of this parable is phenomenal. Right? So within the first two parables, we get little nuance, there's a sheep, it gets lost. Yep, we know that. There's a woman, she loses a coin. We've all done that, right? in my household, losing keys or wallets is just an almost daily occurrence. That and I dare say, I'm not alone on this. So it's like, you know? So there's like, Yes, totally that and then we get into this multi layered story, and everything about it, like, you know, he, he data, wish you were dead, right? Okay, I'm taking everything we've got a few days later, like, he didn't even hang around to say goodbye, really, you know, it's like, I'm off now. And any dad travels to a distant country, and he squanders his living like, it's just Jesus is just master storyteller here. And then, of course, you know, a severe famine took place in that country, like you almost get this resonance with, with some of the early stories of Israel and stuff like that, as well, you know, of how did you know Israel went off in different countries and a famine hit them and everything like that, you know, but then he hires himself out to one of the I can only assume that this other country is in isn't Israel, right? You know, and, and, of course, the evidence of that now becomes brutally apparent, because he gets a job with pigs. It's not even It's bad enough. So he's data wish you're dead. I'm off. I'm not even hanging around. And now I'm going to live with reprobate sort of lifestyle, then it turns out, you know, I'm in a foreign country. And now, I'm going to go and work feeding pigs. It's just like, it's like a Jewish disaster story.

John Andrews   16:54  
It is, it is. And I think, I think this is where, for me, the cases, our context really was enlightening, because if you follow why they did cases are and you follow the mentality to it. This story takes every single box in that so he's thoroughly distasteful as a young man. And he says to his dad, I want your dad, he liquidates the this portion of the estate really quickly, and turns it into some form of, you know, traveling, caching collateral, he travels to a distant country, clearly a reference to a Gentile context and blows the whole thing on what the text calls while living note, his older brother will insert his own view into what way living looks like later on. But of course, remember, this is Jesus telling a story. This is a parable, Jesus is making all this stuff up. But then again, when the young man comes to his senses, look at the language he's, he's actually sorry for what he's done. And he says, He talks about, make me one of your servants. He's not even expecting to be received back as a son, which is really dramatic. And it explains why, you know, because I've sometimes read and thought, Well, you know, alright, the boy went and had a bit of a, like, full on holiday stuff, but, but he's still loved. But of course, if you layer into that a cultural understanding of cases, then the boy already knows I'm stuffed, I'm going to go back here, and, and I'm going to have to go through this, and I'm going to be humiliated. And so I'm just going to get ahead of the curve and say, I'm really sorry, can I be one of your servants? I'll be really happy with being a servant, because I know I can't be your son again. And I think then that explains the actions of the Father. You know, the father saw him not when I used to read this as a wee boy, I've read the actions of the Father, because I had a great dad. And my dad who's No, no gone, you know, he's passed on that. My dad was just a wonderful, generous, gorgeous, beautiful man, who was everything you would want a dad to be? He was just fantastic. So when I used to read this, I would just think of my daddy, you know, Daddy standing at the front door of our house and Belfast and looking up the street because he's looking forward to his son coming. But then when I read this three cases are I'm thinking, Well, the reason he's, he's watching is because he wants to get to his son before the villagers get to him. That's the reason he's watching. He's not just watching because I wonder where Johnny is today? No, he's got it. Right. I've got to get out there before. And of course, the mob get him before the mob gets up. And of course, he runs, which, you know, an elder man and the Jewish culture would never run. So he runs so the fact that he's running every record, where's he go? And what's so they're probably his actions are probably drawing attention and

David Harvey  19:53  
the whole scene is wrong, isn't it? The whole everything's wrong.

John Andrews   19:57  
Yeah, it's all wrong. And I love this, David. is a bit of just want to get to two wee things it says the nav says he threw his arms around him literally the Greek text is he fell on his neck. Which there's a beautiful lewd allusion to that in the Torah. And I think Jesus, remember Jesus is making the story up. So I think Jesus is drawing Torah imagery into the story. And of course, one of the most dramatic falling on your neck moments. Well, there's three actually, in the book of Genesis. There's Esau falling on the neck of of Jacob, which is quite striking as one. There's Joseph and Benjamin. Joseph fell on the neck of Benjamin's gorgeous. And then of course, the most dramatic Father, Son one is Joseph and Jacob. When they meet up again, a lost son and a strange to son, an exile. sighs so beautiful, isn't it? In that gorgeous way, especially

David Harvey  20:54  
if that resonance that I picked up in the first place of almost that, you know, son went off to a distant land and there was a famine? If there's, if there's Israelite story of Egypt and slavery going on allusions in that, that would be That's amazing, john,

John Andrews   21:09  
in that potentially, it's potentially like goose pimples, isn't it? It's sort of you go Oh, no, maybe that's just getting overexcited. And I'd seen something that isn't there. But isn't it dramatic? It's an Unfortunately, the modern translations because, because English doesn't like what does that mean fall on your neck? It sounds a bit weird. I think the old king james translates it fell on his neck actually. But um, but modern translators have softened that and in softening that we've we've lost that nuance, a direct or a nuance, which is a pout, and every fallacy in that room. We just know that boom, they've got that right there. That's, that's a dramatic idea. And then if, and then a beautiful look and nuance. And then I'll I'll pause for a moment let you jump in. But it says he fell on his neck on kiss 10 Cata phileo. Dr. Luke uses that word. And very similar forms three times in his in his text. The woman who kisses Jesus feet, it's Cata beliau in Luke seven. And the elders who kiss Paul, before he leaves them is catifa Leo etre and incessant kissing, it's, it's something passionate. It's not just the kiss of greeting. It's the kiss that's coming out of his compassion for him. He feels something deep within him. And so when the father's running, he's not running to welcome the son. He's running to save this. I think David, that's why he says, Did you notice in the taxi, the son then repents and goes through his speech? Yeah, the father doesn't even respond to the speech. The father just goes Quick, quick, he says, Quick, get the rule put it on him. Why does he say quick? I think Jesus is is is plain on cases. It's because the villagers coming the villages are coming I can see one of them's got a clay partner's hand the villagers are coming quickly get the robe on and get the ring on him get the shoes on because once the robes on him and the rings on, they cannot touch him. And so the father runs to see of him. And I just I just I can't describe my excitement at those nuances in the text and and the message of Israel as well as the message of the individual

David Harvey  23:35  
is just phenomenal. I I you know, I don't want you to stop I want you to keep talking about it. I mean, yeah, the the narrative the way that Jesus tells the narrative is so good. From again, it just keep repeating myself, but the from the quick, short, sharp parables. Now we have a parable where the son says, so I'm going to go home, I'm going to say this. And you actually then get him saying this you don't get that often in parables often. It's like the narrative is shortened and abbreviated to kind of add to the punch. But you know, it's word for word, Father, I've sinned against heaven before you are no longer worthy to be called your son. I what's interesting is the father cuts him off before he gets to the now you're gonna treat me like one of your one of your hired servants. You know, the father cuts in on that. And but then, you know, let's just push with with Bailey for a moment there. Isn't it really interesting that the Father, not only does he get to the son before the village, but he then completely bypasses the mechanism, right? So and I can I can't help but feel resonances of Jesus here. Right? So this outsider chair, you know, tax collectors and sinners, you know, we don't like these people. There is a way there is a way through Torah, for them to sort themselves out and come into the house. There is a way for them to be if they do this, this and the next thing Then we can we can be okay. So we know, we flip back into that kind of if you behave, then you can maybe belong, right? And, and the father, so the father could, let's just kind of let you enjoy being in the gaps of the parable, the father could run out to the sun and see, Johnny, you're home. So, right, let's just work there. So I've got a comfy seat for you, because I love you, there's a comfy seat at the gate, and you're gonna come and sit at it, and everyone's gonna see you there and you're gonna make your apology, I've heard your half your speech, you're gonna make your apology again. And then I'll come out, and I'll say, You're forgiven. And then the servant, bring out your cloak. And we'll work through the process. So, so there is a mechanism to sort this out. And the father just steamrolls the whole thing. And he just says, nope, here's your cloak. Here's your ring, you know, and, and you just can't help. You know, like, I'm drawing to Jesus on the cross. And everybody's hurling insults at him. And Jesus says, Father, forgive them, you know, because they don't know what they're doing. Like I, you can't help but surely not think there's something of that going on in here. Right? You know, that there's this, this is the gospel. Now, this is Grace being presented to us you can, you can choose your speech, you know, work on the best speech you have, go on, give it your best shot, and Jesus just isn't going to let you finish it. It's because your speech is nonsense. Because Because your speech forgets who the father is. Forget that you can have systems and policies and social pressures and honor and shame and traditions. And the father says noise still my son, you know, and then it just, it's awesome. Like, it's just

John Andrews   26:49  
phenomenal. It truly is. And I think if we if we allow our imaginations to run a wee bit more as well, you know, if Jesus is painting, I mean, if we're, if we're picking up the vividness of this picture, 2000 years later, what would it have felt like in a room where everybody knew what this thing was, and, you know, the dramatic moment where by the time the villagers because because it says the boy was a long way off. So by the time the villagers get to the Father and the Son, let's imagine the robes already on him, the rings already on him. The shoes are already on, you know, sleeves, were barefoot, but never sons. And under crowd has gathered and the father with an arm, right and the son walks through the crowd, you know, and I go, and somebody in the crowd has the clay pot ready to smash it in. And the father just silently is saying, we won't need the pot. Because here's what we're doing. We're going straight home. And he says the servant, get that fattened calf, we're going to have a party tonight. And we're going to celebrate. And I think there is a new once this son of mine who was dead because he was dead to the village, he was dead to that culture. He was dead. He's not dead. He's alive and, and you're not going to punish him. And I'm not going to punish him. Because he's no phoned. And you could just imagine the stunned silence of the crowd. As the boy is escorted through the crowd, and are watching him disappear into the father's. I am just I can just hear the Pharisees standard gold but that's not right. That's not that's not what should be done. And of course, the right that's not what should be done. The process says he should be punished. What Jesus is telling us beautiful story and a bypass of the process to say no, no. You're home. You're welcome. Come in and I yeah, I I just I'm shocked by that. Um,

David Harvey  29:06  
well, Grace, you know, Grace is you grace should be illegal. The, you know, it's, it's, you're absolutely right, only it is wrong. And, and bear in mind this this underlying, you know, Heaven has great joy. When one sinner repents more than 99 who are already righteous, the danger of righteousness is that we can become self righteousness and then we want everybody to jump through the same hurdles that we had to get to, don't we and you know, it strikes me john as well. Let's just keep pushing the the background that we know is going on here. You know, I go to the supermarket. Yeah, much like you do. And to my own, discredit, perhaps, you know, meat arrived. In my house in styrofoam, real polystyrene packages and so you know, here's your meat for tonight. Here's two steaks, you know and then today it's some cube beef because I'm making a Chilean today it's some grown beef because I'm making hamburgers. You know, I you know how many quarter pounders are in a cow? Here's a question for you. It's just like, you don't have any Quarter Pounder like McDonald's quarter partners, right? How many quarter partners are in a cab?

John Andrews   30:30  
I have no idea. Dude. I've never been asked that question.

David Harvey  30:33  
It's a fantastic the average cow. The average cow is like 1200 pounds. Right? That would be that would be your average steer, right? which apparently produces something in the region of 450 to 500 pounds of usable meat, right? What we call beef, right? Which means that there's like generally an average. So I did a quick Google and said how many how many burgers? And this is the answer got Quarter Pounder burgers, you're going to get 800 from a cow. Right? So right. It's like it's just to rescue the podcast from moving off into the water and earth that we talked about know. The father is inviting the whole village to the party. Right? Now, we're gonna jump ahead for a little moment, because I want to give the second half the parable, the credit, but look at what the younger son says. You didn't even give me a goat. So well, the number one problem. It's all yours anyway. So I need to take a goat. But a goat is probably about enough food for 20 or so people, right? But a cow is enough. A cow is enough food is enough food for 18 burgers. So So you've got this. So let's just let's just again live in the imaginative zone for a second. Okay. Oh, look, here he is. He's here. Right? I'm going to run because I got to get to him before the village in the pot in the in the mob. Right. So I'm getting there. And again, I'm filling out this is the this is the kind of Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings extended capitalist son. Right. But so this so the father gets out and he says right now here's your I don't know my interest in your speech. Right? We don't have time for the speech. We have time to kill a cow. But we don't have time for a speech. here's here's your sews. Here's your ring. Here's your cloak. Oh, now the crowd have caught up with us. We've got the pot. We've got the stool. And the father says How about instead, we have a party. And, and you're all invited? Love it is just brilliant. Because Because Heaven has joy about something that is lost that is found. So so there's Is there a resonance there that says when something lost this phoned the deeply theological response to that is party. And you're all coming. I don't measure these people sat with their kebabs going, Well, this is a mess, isn't it? But at least the food's good.

John Andrews   33:09  
Of course, when when the older brother comes in, he not only hears the sound of the music, but did you notice the sound of the dancing? going on? There's a lot of stuff going on there. And they are having a jolly old time. And it doesn't that doesn't that relate back, David to what you said yesterday, in the previous part, rejoice with me. Yes. And that's exactly the nuance that the father does say to the son he, he said, he says verse 30, to look at the language how we had to celebrate. Yes, we had to celebrate and be glad and that leans into the imperative of rejoice with me. We had to celebrate and we got the rule. Absolutely. So so the Father has embraced the rules of the previous two parables rejoice with me a command lean into that. And then he says we had to celebrate and be glad and the word God literally is the cm cm root word there as rejoice with me. It's that beautiful idea of celebrate with me. And you've got that and of course, Judo again, sorry, sorry about that I love I love the little nuance of this sort of fattened calf idea, because it sparked a thought in me right back to the Torah again, where Abraham is entertaining God. Well, at least God in some sort of human form, we might call it a Theophany. Some may even think a Christopher neither. It's It's It's God in some sort of human form and maybe to angelic beings and the role in human form. And of course, the Lord is about to drop the amazing news that Sarah will have a baby this time next year. But But what does Abraham do he he rushes to prepare this calf, tender and good enough food for us all. And, and a beautiful thing happens in the context of food together in the context of hospitality and welcome. In the context of celebration, a word of life is given your wife this time next year, we'll have the baby. And it's in the celebration that life is released, isn't it? That that ultimately there's there's something because when they celebrate this returning boy, something's got to change in them. Right? So, so like six hours before they were the Lynch party. Now they're dancing. So So the fact that they have followed the imperative rejoice with me, has changed them, that they've now changed, potentially, in seeing this some completely differently, and seeing the outcome of this process completely different. And it's interesting, it's the person not at the party. At this moment, who has the biggest struggle and dream it?

David Harvey  36:09  
You can, you can be at the party and not be at the party. You know, like, Well, you know, which, like, just draw all back out again, for a second, Jesus is hosting a party, the wrong people are there. And the religious experts come and they start to grumble. And Jesus goes, let's tell some stories. This story ends with, you can be at the party, and not the at the party, you know, I loved that, like I had written on my notes here, john had to celebrate. And I had had underlined like five times like it's, you know, rejoice with me exactly, is it? It's an imperative. And then this story, you see them living that out. So there's this exciting moment that verse 25, this is heaven. This is, you know, this is heaven on earth, which is what Jesus is always calling us to look for. And see, you know, that, you know, there's too much thinking about how do we get away when when Jesus is saying, how do we get the rule of God and the reign of God here? And like Grace? Does grace have rules? Well, you got to be careful because a grace has rules, it becomes law. But if Grace has a rule, here it is, celebrate your party. And know what's interesting, john in this and I'm just kind of pulling myself back together because I'm a bit emotionally wrecked by the last couple of minutes. But interesting, the first parable ends with rejoice, and celebrate, because what is because I found my sheep that was lost, right? The second parable ends with rejoice with me, because I found the coin that was lost, right. But interestingly, this parable at verse 24, we don't just call that the middle, or at least it's not the end. Rejoice, because what is lost is found, right? So there's almost a sense that there might not even be three parables here, they might be four parables, because now we get a fourth story and almost starts again. Now there's an elder son, and he's in the field, he all of a sudden, you know, like, up until now, we just knew that the man had two sons. And we didn't know where the second son is. He just, we don't know anything about that. But all of a sudden, he enters and you get this sense then of the second story beginning and, and it's no, it's mimicking the Jesus meal scene, like in real, you know, kind of contrast in Tom rates, you know, reading of this, he always calls it the parable of two sons. Because, you know, because now a second story starts. And, and you've got this kind of nuances that are really worth kind of explaining and engaging with, you know, he hears what's going on, he hears music and dancing. Okay, so it's beautiful that you mentioned that because I was so excited when I, when I saw that myself as well, that it's like, ah, whatever has gone on these people have decided that ceremony, we were planning Wasn't that fun Anyways, let's get beyond that. When he hears it, right. And, you know, think about think about this, john, just his elder son was in the field. He was in the fields. I knew somebody once who, who came from a background in the church, which I respect, you know, I'm not having I'm not wanting to have a go at their, their background, please. You know, hear me well, but their background was that they didn't drink alcohol. Right. And, and so they had never drank or they were an older person and they've never drank alcohol ever in their whole life. But I remember I was visiting them one day with a friend and his We left. I remember saying to my friends, you know, for somebody that never drinks alcohol, they talk about it a lot.

And to the extent that I know people who do drink alcohol, don't talk about it as much as this person that does the trick. And you almost if I was older and braver, I'd have maybe said, maybe you should try some. Right. And I sound like I'm being disrespectful. And I don't mean it that way. But there was, but when they talked about it was a sense of, but look at me, I've been working hard never to drink my whole life. And all of these people who are just out there, drinking and doing that, and that kind of religious attitude can come in. And I love Jesus, he's nuance Jesus, he's nuance here of, you know, he was in the field. So they're partying, and he's working hard, you know, like, just, like, what a brilliant capturing of what can get into our hearts sometimes, you know, like, you know, there's another parable, which we must talk about in this series, you know, of the workers, the vineyard workers, you know, and oh, wait a minute, I've been in the field all day. And you're going to you're going to offer this guy that came for an hour, you're gonna offer him What now? It's this same attitude. Again, it's this sense of, you know, I just love that nuance if he was in the field, at least he's just that you can be working hard doing all the right things, for all the right reasons. But then when you encounter grace, it's just offensive to you.

John Andrews   41:27  
It's true. It's so true. And I think it leans beautifully. David into Jesus, especially in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus, his relationship with the religious community. I used to have the privilege of teaching at the Gospel of Luke in the book of accetta, our denominational Bible college, and I used to try and describe Jesus as a sort of a charismatic pharmacy, that I the theological level, Jesus and the Pharisees were actually very, very similar matter simultaneously. So but yeah, and it's interesting, he never really criticizes them for their theology. It's very rarely he, he more criticizes them for their practice. And that's where they that's, and of course, interestingly, they largely criticize him for his practice. And I think you get this beautiful cat most situation in the Gospel of Luke, especially, where they're like, following him everywhere, and they're clearly trying to see of him because they think he's a, he's a decent is a decent bloke, he's, you know, Nick edemas. Son, he'd remember, we know you're a man come from God. So there's a whole bunch of them think this guy's pretty good, but they can't work them out. And so they sort of like what he's about, but they really cannot stomach his behavior. So they're trying to see of him. Ironically, of course, Luke's Gospel shows as he's trying to see of them. And there are, there are many meal moments that you know, there's as many it depends on how you count, you can have as many as 11, or 12 dinners or meals in the Gospel of Luke. But if you wanted to look at the big missional ones, six stand out, and Jesus has three dinners with sinners, absolutely, identifiably sinners. And then he has three dinners in the houses of Pharisees.

Unknown Speaker  43:16  
Beautiful cemetery, isn't it? It's a beautiful cemetery.

John Andrews   43:19  
And I, I would argue that Dr. Luke in his genius, includes the cemetery, because of those six meals. Five of them are unique to the text of Luke. Right. And I think if you're prepared to follow my breadcrumbs that I think I follow Dr. Luke's on this, I think then, when you get to Matthew 15, you have something of that symmetry in play. And, and he's Jesus is surrounded by if you like, the pig hugging son, he's surrounded by the sinners, who, who should get cases are unwelcomed under his leadership, and Shepherd, Shepherd ship, as it were. But then you've got a religious community, who are like the elder son working hard, serving the Father. Now look at the language. Now remember, Jesus is telling this parable. So he's putting the words into the bones of the sons, he's, he's, he's creating these words. Now look at the words that that Jesus creates around this. It says of the son, he became angry. I think I'd say that goal of the Pharisees murmur University, which you picked up on brilliantly. Yesterday, in verse 30. He says to the Father,

Unknown Speaker  44:35  
this son of yours, look at that language. I mean, I

John Andrews   44:41  
had a brother and a sister. I never described my brother as this son of yours. I would say he's my brother. But if cases are has kicked in, then he doesn't have a brother.

David Harvey  44:53  
It's the language of divorce, isn't it? Is this you know, as a pastor, you know, I've encountered a lot of you You know, marriage breakdown, and it's, you hear it. So you have you have mom and dad and child, right? And mom will talk about dad, as you know, Hey, Dad says this and Hey, Mom says that, you know, and then a divorce happens. And you hear parents talking to the children going, Hey, your dad said this amazingly powerful pronoun just to throw in there, isn't it? So we see this in our lives as well as your son, not my brother. Yeah, your son, you know?

John Andrews   45:28  
Yeah. And I think, you know, I think he's, Jesus is deliberately crafting that language, this son of yours. And then look at verse 20. And you've alluded to this, I think this is just powerful. Because it connects the field idea to what No, he says, He says this first 29 I think this is tragic. and powerful. He says to his father, all these years, I have been slaving

Unknown Speaker  45:57  
for you.

John Andrews   45:59  
And then he goes on to say, and I've never disobeyed your orders. Right? If I didn't know that was a son speaking. Right, I think that's an employee's speaking. That's a sleep speaking. He He's a song. But he doesn't sound like a song at that moment. And Could it be David Allen, who could be patient is too far could Jesus be just leaning towards the Pharisees gathered that night at his dinner party and saying, Listen, boys, you know, the Torah off by heart, but the danger is, it's become slavish, it's become orders, it's become swallowing knots, straining, not sorry, and swallowing camels, you're missing the heart of the Father, in all of this, and, and I think that language, so deliberately chosen by Jesus, so forensically chosen is, well, it moves me deeply. I think, Jesus, I want to imagine and I know, some of our listeners will say, john, shut up now. But I want to imagine Jesus with tears in his eyes, as he says, All these years I have been slaving for you. And how does the father respond, but the father says, but all I have is yours. And he's, he's that's why it is the parable of the two lost sons because the the elder son doesn't sound like a son. Yeah, he sounds like an employee, he sounds like a member of the estate. And I think Jesus is appealing to the lostness of the sons that believe themselves, find the religious community, and he's saying, Listen, you're not slaves, and you're not obeying orders. This is about celebrating with heaven. And I think there's something deep in the overall language of look at the overall appeal of Jesus to the religious community in the Gospel of Luke. And I think this is one of the focal points of that, that argument in this in this parable.

David Harvey  48:11  
And then if we can adjust for a moment leaf over to Luke's friend, Paul, you get Philippians chapter three, you know, but so hold that narrative of the sun, you know, I have been slaving for you have never disobeyed your command. And Paul then says of himself, he's like, you know, hey, listen, you want to talk about confident background? Here's mine, circumstances, flipping three, five, circumcised on the eighth day, member, the people of Israel tribe of Benjamin, Hebrew of Hebrews, as the law while I was a faricy, as to zeal I persecuted those, those Christians the church, as to righteousness under the wall. blameless poses. The young man, the young man says to his father, I've been slaving for you and I've never disobeyed your command. And yet, the young man says, You've never even given me a good. Paul says, I was blameless. Yet whatever gains I had these I've come to regard as loss because of Christ. No more than that, I regard everything as loss, because of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus, my Lord, you know, so you now get this kind of Paul crashes into grace, you know, and realize these, actually, all of this defense that I've put together is just worthless, you know, and this is what but this is like, and this is why I mean, the Luke Paul theology crossover, you know, a lot of times people talk about Paul as if he's hard to correlate with the Gospels. I just find him so easy to correlate with the Gospels, you know, you know, like all these years, I've been working like a slave for you. You've never disobeyed your commandment, and you've never even given me a goat, so that I might celebrate with my friends, but when the son of yours came back, divided your property with prostitutes, like you say, like, he feels like he's been in the field the whole time. But he apparently, actually what his brother has been. You killed the fatted calf. And then the father says, Son, you're always with me. And all that is mine is yours. You know, it's like, Paul's like, I realize it was last. And then he goes on in Philippians three to say, because I realize Jesus had already grabbed hold of me, you know, like, like said, you want to go you have go wherever you want. You know, you know, you have a cow whenever you want. It's all yours. Like the fact that you thought that working for me was slaving actually, you were the son of promise you had you were the son of inheritance, you had everything. You just chose not to live in it. And now, now you can't help but think the Egypt story, the falling on the neck of Jacob and Joseph, like, you know, goodness, these tax collectors and sinners, like you can't help but think that no, Jesus is absolutely echoing the Israel story for them. You have everything of God's and you're trying to bind it up and keep it to yourself. When it was always designed, you know, the Abraham story, you will be a light to the nation's you'd be a blessing to the Gentiles. You know, it's, it's so this, this resonance with Philippians to me is so powerful giant, because there's that sense of this is what grace looks like that you're john Barclay, brilliant scholar in in Durham. In England, He always talks about how grace bankrupts your previous economies, you know, so, so you're there, you're there trying to roll out, I did this. And I did that. And they did the next thing. And the problem is, it's like, you know, you and me are old enough to remember when the Euro came in, in Europe. And then there was that moment where you opened your drawer, you know, Michael McIntyre, the comedian talks about the man drawer, you know, if you open your drawer, and now you realize I've still got lira, and I've still got some francs. And and they're worthless network, you know? You know, and it's like that, but I've been in the field. Well, who cares about the field when there's a party going on? You know, Paul's like, I was a fantasy of Pharisees. But when you meet Jesus, you realize, Oh, goodness, that that economy doesn't happen anymore. That grace fundamentally alters the structures of the way that we think. And I can't help but see that contrast between one son, Father, I have sinned against you. Make me like one of your servants and the other son, I have been slaving away the whole time. You know, there's little lines drawn between the two there, isn't there?

John Andrews   52:42  
It's totally genius. I add again, at what really, what really touches me moves me is that Jesus is crafting the words. And he's crafting the words in front of an audience that that are both songs. To know the audience is made up of the inheritance grabbing pigs smelling younger son. Yeah. And an audience is made up of elder sons that are good people. I mean, good people. Nicodemus was a good man. These are good people there. They could recite Torah off by heart, they have devoted themselves to protecting God and to protect in the text. And they are they are decent, upright, good people. But they are lost. Yes. And, and, you know, the grace of Heaven is right in front of them. Everything they claim to believe is right in front of them. And they're so obsessed in carrying out cases are that they're missing the party. Of course, tragically, gloriously, mysteriously, there's no finish to this parable. What happened next? And Jesus deliberately leaves it hanging,

David Harvey  54:02  
you know, is the parable that doesn't have celebration, the fourth parable doesn't have it has the instruction, but it doesn't have the answer, right?

John Andrews   54:10  
Yep. It just hangs there. What What the What to Do you know, if I'm sitting in the audience of Jesus, like, and Jesus finishes there, Oh, God. So what did he do? What did he do? What did the elder brother do? Did he did he join the party? And you know, that there's a sense in which Jesus leaves that hanging there. And he's literally saying to the elder brothers in the room, what do you want to do? You want to join this party? You got to join me? Or are you going to stay out? Outside the party and miss the fun? And I think it is a dramatic, dramatic appeal. I think there's we you know, if we're prepared to read this with a tender tone, other to nation at the end of this of tenderness, then I think you hear a tender appeal from Jesus. To the elder son, the pay cogging sons of God it they're all there that they're there because actually, they get it this guy, this guy is not breaking parts this guy's mending lives. So we we were in, we're in so they don't need to be convinced to join the party. They're taking that option. But Jesus actually, I would argue, almost the point of this parable is not the main focus often the prodigal son, the point of this parable is actually the elder son, please join the party, join the party, come on, cross the line, sit down, have a glass of wine with me, enjoy these olives that we bought, especially for this evening. And join the party rejoice with

David Harvey  55:47  
me. That's the thing about Jesus. I think the genius of these three slash for three and a half in parables is that you realize he's done something really clever parable one look at these sinners parable to look at these sinners. parable three, look at these sins. Oh, wait, look at yourself. And he just spins it back around on them, doesn't he? I think this is where you realize what's been going on? Is that, you know, I asked the question yesterday, this parable poses the question who's actually lost, you know, and you can be lost and still at home, you can be lost and not go away. You can, you can get completely off track. You know, Eugene Peterson, great Eugene Peterson, in my opinion, he talks about iatrogenic illness in one of his books, when he's talking about these parables. He talks about I'm trying to remember the name of the of the book that Peterson cites now john, which is terrible, because I was just reading it the just the other day there in the Word made flesh. And he, he talks about iatrogenic illness, which is, which is basically the actual you know, that the Greek word for Doctor, right, and, and so androgenic illnesses when you go to the doctor to be healed of something. And in the process of being healed of that something, you develop a new disorder, right? So superbugs would be an example of that. You were you were ill with this, you went to hospital, and you were ill with something else. And unfortunately, there's something else you deal with no worse than the thing you got in the first place. Right. And Peterson talks about this part of the parable as as the challenge of iatrogenic illness that he the phrase he uses is there are some sins that you only catch in church. And, you know, show this son, you know, I'm out in the field, I'm doing everything right, everything's great that I'm doing, you know, you shouldn't be, but a new sin has developed. And the new sin that's developed is, is I can't believe you're doing that to them.

John Andrews   58:08  
So good, David. So I have never heard that phrase before. But like, certain scenes you only catch in churches so good. I mean, that literally does like it. Yeah, because like I said before, I think there's a pharmacy in as well. And he's lurking and like being of a Celtic disposition as well. I think I'm more prone to be slightly sort of black and white and a bit a bit dogmatic and a bit of literally, genuinely I've had to try and trim the heart away from that not not lose the strength of that ability. But the tree in my heart away from the harshness that sometimes I'm ability, you know, yes. I, I look at these Pharisees. And I think, you know, I could be one of them. You know what I mean? That's my problem. I could slip into that pretty easy. Yeah. And I have to fight the pharmacy. And you Peterson's Peterson's magnificent, unique insight into that, that actually, when you're in charge long enough, where you're in the club long enough when you've when you've held the law, as Paul did and obeyed, faultlessly.

Unknown Speaker  59:19  
blamelessly

John Andrews   59:21  
you could get a little bit awkward. he could, he could get a little bit superior. I mean, you would look at the center on the street ground, not like him. I'm certainly, you know, as one pharmacy, in a parable of Jesus said, and Luke's Gospel Lord, I thank you that I'm not like him. Looking at the publican and I think it's an it's all and I think these parables are a reminder, I think the great disservice that preachers have done to this parable to the church is that they have, we have put the emphasis squarely on the prodigal son, the son that went away, and then it becomes a very comforting that will parable about Someone who's gone away. But we'll come back eventually. But actually, if the point of the parable, ultimately was to challenge the end crowd and say, actually, you know, their sins that you've developed while in the in grow, then it becomes a deeply controversial and uncomfortable parable and wondered should move each of us to go. Is the elder brother in me? Am I am I

David Harvey  1:00:28  
leaving john, I'm thinking, as I'm reading this, just now my brain, my brain is doing that thing that our brains do, where it starts trying to draw connections. You know, I'm then drawn over to First Corinthians where you've now got this early kind of Christian community, and they're starting to get a little bit of, well, you know, I'm a proper Christian because I, I came here by Paul, well, no, I'm here by a polis and you know, yeah, well, I'm a Peter, you know, and you've got this. And Paul can have weighed in on this arguments, like, What on earth are you all talking about? But there's just that that little fascinating comment that he makes in verse 21, of chapter three, where he says, so let no one boast about human leaders, for all things are yours, whether Paula repolish, or K fast, which is pizza, or the world, or life or death of the presence of the future, all belong to you, you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God. And again, you know, I just, I'm not trying to draw. This is what Luke has in mind this, you know, but there's that sense of, it's interesting that this problem continues then on into the church, you know, and Paul's going, like, why are you arguing about what your argument right? Or do you realize you're of Christ? You know, don't you realize that it all is yours, like everything you have, it's all belongs to you. I say this to people quite regularly, where people say, you know, I just, I just wish I could have more of God. And I understand what people are trying to say, in all languages metaphor, and that fails us. But I always love as a pastor to encourage them and go, tough. You've got has, it's all there for you. You can just choose not to take it, you know, you never even gave me a goat is the Son and the father says, it's all yours. It's all you you can live in as much grace as you want. There's almost that sense of the father's even saying to the Son, you could have hosted this party. Thank you. You're choosing to be like this policy into the Corinthians. Why are you arguing about some of this stuff, it's all yours. You know, you've got as much of God as you want. It's, you've got as much grace as you want. You know, I'm the one that's controlling the tap of grace into my life. And, you know, and I can just pull it if I just let it all flooded, and just be completely ruined by it. Which I think is what Jesus is saying, this father is just ruined by grace just doesn't care. I'm going to run that undignified. When I break all the social rules are just one, this son back in my house again. Beautiful. There's even a question john as to how lost he actually is. Because the father seems to know where he is. Because he's like, He's waiting for him. And he knows he's coming and he's going to get him. Yeah. What do you do with grace?

Unknown Speaker  1:03:15  
What do you do?

John Andrews   1:03:17  
It's magnificent. It's magnificent. And, yeah, I absolutely love, love all of that. And, and both, both sons speak to me deeply. And challenged me deeply.

David Harvey  1:03:30  
You know, you and I have worked in very similar context, although we both worked in the same, you know, seminary context for a while, but we've also pastored. And I think about how often people say to me, I just feel like God's doesn't want anything to do with me, or I just feel like I've done some stuff. I've done some stuff. And therefore I think, um, I think I think I can't, you know, connect with God anymore. You know, and this is, and we create these reasons. And I always find myself drawn back to this story here. And as if Jesus is saying, What's your reason? What reason do you think is going to stop the father running to you know, and it's like, some there's this resistance in the human heart to grace. You know, it's just like, the no matter how often Jesus says it, we always feel as a bot. There's a bug. Yeah. But if you knew what I had done, if you knew what I had done, well, this son, he did some stuff, you know, and the father runs to him. Just my son is dead is no photographs

John Andrews   1:04:35  
beautiful. It's beautiful. And at every level, Greece is is magnificently gloriously troublesome. Because it, it doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem fair. And, and somehow, humans we feel we need to do something to justify that grace. And, you know, well, I did this But But God did this. But the story on both ends of the spectrum with both sons, points to the fact Actually, it's it's everything about what the Father has done what the Father provides what the Father gives, therefore what you can enjoy. All I have is yours. He said to the elder son, when the younger son said, I'm happy to be your servant. None of it. None of it. No, no, here's my robe. Here's the ring. Here's the shoes. No, come home. And that is, that is all grace.

David Harvey  1:05:35  
It's nice. It's phenomenal. It's just so great. And even that sense, john, which still echoes out to all of us, by the time you get to the end of these parables, which Sunday you want to be, and all of us want to be the still smells of pigs. Because you realize, yeah, that's what that's what I want, you know, and maybe I've got to lose some of my self righteousness. In order to find actual righteousness, I got to lose some of my self justification in order to find grace, you know, and I've got to carry the shame of, of actually just blowing it all. But in that beauty of when we blew it all We find that God is there, drawing us back towards

Unknown Speaker  1:06:15  
himself. Okay.

David Harvey  1:06:18  
Okay, that's it for episode eight. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed it. If you want to get in touch with either office about something we said you can reach out to us on podcast at two texts.com or by liking and following to text podcast on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. If you did enjoy the episode, we'd love it if you left a review or comment where you're listening from. And if you really enjoyed this episode, why not share it with a friend. Don't forget you can listen to all our podcasts to text calm, or wherever you get your podcast. But that's it for this episode. We will be back tomorrow. But until then, goodbye

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