Ephphatha | Miracles 7

In which John and David get excited talking about miracles in Mark chapter 7. Jesus uses the Aramaic word Ephphatha in the midst of chapter that offers us more than one insight into Jesus and what we can learn from him today.

• Click Here to read the text from Mark 7:24-37. 

Episode Outline

• 1:01 Mark 7
• 5:07 Little Dogs
• 15:12 Did Jesus Really Say That?
• 28:51 John and Isaiah 35
• 33:55 David and Isaiah 35
• 44:11 Really Really Present
• 56:57 Jesus’ Pastoral Practice

The next episode of Two Texts will be on Thursday August 5. 

Episode 24 of the Two Texts Podcast | Meaning of Miracles Series 7

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Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021

Chapters

• 1:01 Mark 7
• 5:07 Little Dogs
• 15:12 Did Jesus Really Say That?
• 28:51 John and Isaiah 35
• 33:55 David and Isaiah 35
• 44:11 Really Really Present
• 56:57 Jesus’ Pastoral Practice

Transcript

David: [00:00:00] Hi there. I'm David Harvey and I'm here with John Andrews and this. Is the two texts podcast. In this podcast, we're two friends in two different countries here every two weeks. Talking about two different texts from the Bible. Okay, this is our second season and it's about the miracles of Jesus. You're listening to episode seven. 

And it's called.Ephphatha  

John: [00:00:30] so David, we are heading back into the Decapolis today. We explored some incredible events in our last episode around that sort of 10 cities, this sort of Gentile region. And we are back there today and this amazing story that we're gonna pick up from mark chapter seven and the next phase of our miracle series.

So, so would you like to read for us seven picking it up at about verse 30, one of Mark's gospel? That would be brilliant

David: [00:01:01] excellent. John, let's say let's do it.  It says then he returned from the region of tire and went by way of Sidon towards the sea of Galilee in the region of the capitalists. So there we are. It's our sequel, the follow-up. They brought to him a man who couldn't hear, who had an impediment in his speech and they, they begged him to lay his hand on.

He took him aside in private, away from the crowd and put his fingers into his ears and he spat and touched his tongue. Then looking up to heaven, he sighed and said to him a Ephaphtha that is be opened and immediately his ears were opened. His tongue was released and he spoke plainly. Then Jesus ordered them to tell no one, but the more he ordered them, the more zealously they proclaimed it.

And they were astonished beyond measure saying he has done everything well. He even makes the deaf to hear, and those who cannot speak to speak. 

John: [00:02:18] Beautiful. Beautiful love that. Love that. Of course, as we're jumping in there, David, that's a serious journey, a serious journey. Jesus has a, I love the Bible, how it just introduces these immense moments with just a sentence or so. And you've got this sort of, he left the vicinity of tire, went through seitan, dying to the sea of Galilee and into the region of the capitalists.

Now that's one verse in our Bible, but that probably took Jesus. That's a good three or four day journey, potentially, depending on the routes that he goes, it's interesting. Of course he sort of goes. From if we follow the tax, literally goes from tire undergo, deciding you would have to go north up to Sidon and then down to the sea of Galilee.

Now, as far as my research shows, there's no direct treating route across from seitan directly to Galilee. So they had had to probably make the wrong way though. Then they could have picked up the trading route that would take them down to the capitalists, but we are talking serious journey there that Jesus is making.

And interestingly, of course going, moving from one Jen Taylor arena I think this was in the days of Jesus. This would have been literally labeled as the province of Syria under Roman occupation from about 86. I think they called it the province of Syria. Tara Anderson. And then all the way down into another Gentile region, the 10 cities to capitalists, where you've got mostly gen types going on.

So it's a, quite a, quite a fascinating introduction to our little story. Isn't it?

David: [00:03:53] Yes, no, it?

really, it really is. And of course, just, w w we mentioned it just as we began, but just to draw the dots, episode five, we talked about this, this has story of this man who is possessed by,  spirits. Jesus sorts that situation out. We don't know. Go back through that story.

It's there an episode five, if you want to listen to it. But it's interesting to note that the end of that story involves the people kicking Jesus out from the reef, from the region, from the capitalist and saying, we don't want you here. And then the man who is left behind who has been rescued, he then says to Jesus, well, let me come with you.

Jesus says, no, no, no, no. I don't want you to do that. I want you to stay here and talk about what's happened. So it's really interesting that just a few verses, relatively a few verses later two chapters, we know our Jesus is back in the same region where they previously kicked them out. But just look at how things have started.

Now. They brought to him this man who can't hear and has some sort of impediment in his speech. So you're seeing Mark's narrative show the progress. And I love that mark doesn't fill in The,

blanks for you, but clearly something has happened. The man appears to have done his job. 

John: [00:05:07] yeah. And isn't it interesting? I think that link, yeah. Such a beautiful one  to think about that sort of mark five to mark seven link. Absolutely gorgeous there, but also of course, as we've always tried to do the stories that go before and sometimes even after our particular passage are, can be relevant.

Of course, in mark chapter seven, you've got a very, very interesting story of Jesus connecting with a lady from the vicinity of Tyre on an incredible conversation, where you get this sort of climactic type moment where, where Jesus says, first let the children eat all they want for it's right for the children.

Is it right for the children's bread to be tossed to their dogs? And then she says, yes, Lord. But even the dogs under the table eat the children's crumbs. And there's an amazing indirection there that she understands what's going on. She understands who he is. And jet, she engages by fifth and you get this beautiful dispense in of a miracle for her life.

And that's sort of that, that that's the, the many climax within that passage, as we then push towards this amazing story and the Decapolis and I love high mark links, those two together, you're moving from one Gentile region to another Gentile region. And if our listeners are the readers are aware of the geography, then you're dealing with two miracles here back to back that are essentially targeted to Gentiles and Gentiles seem to be getting the benefit from it.

I think that's a beautiful nuance sort of within that, within the flow of that passage.

David: [00:06:53] I love what you're spotting there.

John, but can I zoom out even just a little tiny bit further? This is one of those where those moments where you zoom out a little bit, and then you went almost to zoom out a little bit more because I, and notice just mark seven.

as a whole, I can't help, but think that mark is doing something here.

So the, the chapter begins with some scribes and some Pharisees are having a little more niche. Jesus, if you could imagine that. And they, they they're there. Concerned because they, they notice that Jesus, his disciples, when the eat are not going through what we would call the, the traditions and the ritual processes in order to prepare themselves for eating.

So this is not, this is not like, them playing the role of the mother saying You haven't washed your hands.

for your supper, but, but they've not gone through certain traditional purification, right. When they sit down to eat, and this is obviously upsetting them and mark points this out in verse three, he said, Jewish people don't eat unless they thoroughly washed their hands, observing the traditions of the,

elders.

And a lot of scholars think this is probably an early reference to what we would now call missioner this series of, of, of kind of fences and, and ways of engaging with The law. So this, this interaction.

happens between the Pharisees and Jesus about Why?

Yeah.

Why do you not do these things? Why, why do you not engage with the proper traditions?

And so, so Jesus jumps back into Isaiah at that point. Doesn't he, and, and, and offers this offers this critique really, that people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me in vain. Do they worship me taking teaching human precepts as doctrines? I mean, it's a pretty, it's a pretty cutting little moment there.

I read that John is Jesus saying when, when the disciples say are challenged by how they're purifying their hands before they eat, Jesus is almost kind of pushing them. sort of saying, well, where's that in the Bible, some sort of level by choosing this verse that they've taken the human precepted almost turned it into a piece piece of doctrine.

So then Jesus goes on this, this very interesting.

little critique of this, where he basically pulls the disciples aside afterwards because the disciples are a little confused as to, well, what was that interaction about Jesus and what were you actually trying to get at there? And Jesus offers this little insight that he says, it's not what goes into a person from the outside that defiles them, but it's what comes out of the, out of the heart.

Right? 

John: [00:09:39] Yeah,

David: [00:09:39] We can jump in and talk about some things about that, John, if you want, but just looking at the moment, just in terms of structure of chapter seven, the, the irony to me seems very strong that, that you get this argument about the, the minutiae of ritual process.

within Judaism in the time of Jesus and the attempt to almost exclude Jesus and his followers, because they're not paying attention to the entire sort of little tiny details of things.

Then he leaves that region. And now you have two miracle stories that happen to non-Jewish people, Jesus, having set up this comment that says, actually these ritual processes are not what makes you clean, right? It's actually what's going on inside you and I can't help, but notice that mark goes out of his way to tell us that these are not Jewish.

So, so the woman that comes to him in verse 26, you don't mean, but Mike's not happy simply to say she's Greek. Right. She she's Greek of, of from the region of Sinai Syrophoenician it's so it's like the Greeks did enough and went to, she's absolutely not a Jewish person here that we were speaking to.

And then the next that encounter is now we're back in the Decapolis and mark knows, oh, you remember that space? They had a lot of pigs or they used to anyway. And so, I mean, do you, do you see that connection, John, do you think, this sort of contrast between the sort of exclusive argument that he has and Jesus reframing that and suggesting, this is not how these things work and then two stories almost back that up 

John: [00:11:22] I do I do. I think it's a beautiful sort of trajectory of that. And I think you get this lovely juxtaposition between what's clean, what's on clean. So, in that first story you've alluded to, you've got like, okay, your hands are clean. So that's fine. Just, well, well, yeah, your hands might be clean, but is your heart clean?

And it's actually, it's the stuff common out of your inside. That really is what makes you cleaner on clean. And then of course you get engagement with to Gentile contexts. The surface are unclean, and yet the purity of the engagement between both the woman and the story that we're not actually touching on.

We're just using that as a little bit of a foil for Armenian conversation. And then the man who brings him. Demonized son into this context, you, you you've, you've got this on the surface of it. They are up on unclean and jet Jesus ultimately engages with them in a way that shows the kingdom of God is reaching beyond that and touching that and making something clean, or even identifying something that's maybe cleaner than we think.

So it, I think there's a lovely, a lovely nuance in that, that, that those three fit together really beautifully.

David: [00:12:49] And, and how much we, like you say, we're not talking about the Syrophoenician woman's daughter in this episode, but, but now we are, and that's okay. Because it's, it probably just needs a little mention, cause it's a slightly difficult little passage. This one that gets us to the story that we just read.

Because as you've mentioned already, you get this situation where this, this lady comes and she and it's interesting. She asks for her little daughter who has an unclean spirit, it's that same word again, that gyrus that we talked about in episode six that gyrus. Has a little daughter who needs to be healed.

So, so again, think of the contrast that Mark's drawing in this theme that we're looking at just now that you have a synagogue leader has a little daughter, but now you have a Greek speaking Syrophoenician woman who also has a little daughter, so what's Jesus going to do there and now, but then Jesus says something really difficult.

Doesn't it almost, we won't be the first people to struggle with it. Jesus zippier is quite harsh here. Let the children be fed first for, it's not fair to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs. Okay. And this is a very stereotypical sort of Jewish way to talk about non Jewish people. It's, it's a bit of a slur in ancient times, not, not presently, but that was a lot of scholars pick up on the fact that this wouldn't be unusual.

Derogatory language, but it's slightly surprising to hear Jesus say it. I know some people notice that the translations generally say dogs, but Jesus literally says little dogs. So let the children be fed first for, it's not fair to take the children's food and throw it.

to the little dogs. So you have a little doctrine and little dog, but it's still, still very harsh.

And I've, I've heard preachers try and assess the tone that Jesus uses. And, but of course, none of that's in the text, but I find myself wondering if once you zoom out and see this preceding conversation about, about perceptions of how are things unclean and what makes things and clean and traditions that are being held.

If you can't suggest that there might be a sense of Jesus playing on the irony playing on, on, on, on how people are perceived, but that's not actually how God sees them. 

John: [00:15:12] I think that as we've tried to talk about before, if you see Jesus say something or do something in a way that is out of character, out of kilter, with what we knew about him in other parts of the text, either in this case, Mark's taxed or the other gospels, then it causes us to go.

What's going on here. So, so we, we sort of, at least I, I suppose you and I certainly I would be comfortable with starting from the position of right. What this actually sounds like it cannot be. So there must be something else going on. He, he, there's no example of Jesus being so derogatory to any person and certainly not a person seeking faith and help.

There's not a single other case of Jesus in any way, being derogatory towards Gentiles. So this, if there says, if this is what's happening here, then this is the singular outlier in the ministry of Jesus. So when you get such a significant outlier, is this, we start from the default of hold on a minute.

That doesn't sound like Jesus. Therefore, is there another explanation? If, if someone, I I've known you for years and years and years, and if someone picked up the phone and said to me, oh, you want a David Harvey has said some stuff about you. My, my first default reaction would be that doesn't sound like 

David: [00:16:45] Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you think 

John: [00:16:48] So then what I would do is yeah, yeah, absolutely. So then what I would do is I'd say to that person, let me, let me talk to David and just, just make sure that what you think he said about me and what I knew about him, what's going on here. And, and I think we've got to have that sort of approach, not just to Jesus, but maybe to other moments in the text.

If it looks like an outlier, asked the question, is it, is it an outlier? And therefore we need to learn something from that. If it's not, then there's something else going on. And then that allows us to take into account the wider context of the passage had a low sauce. And isn't it interesting. We've picked up on this before and other miracle stories that though my version of the Bible describes the woman's daughter's spirit or demon is evil.

The text that really describes it as on clean again, it's that unclean idea. So you've got this lovely connection 

David: [00:17:49] totally. 

John: [00:17:50] of unclean clean in the previous conversation, and we're immediately introduced to a woman whose daughter is demonized by something that's on clean. 

 And I think if you're prepared then to see what seems to be a note religious statement from Jesus. I mean, religious, if we take that without taking tone into context, which is difficult to translate, I'm just taking it on face value.

That it really is hard to score that circle. But if you are taking the wide previous conversation, which then mark dovetails into this, and then you take the very next event of the healing of the man who can't speak and struggle or can't hear and struggles to speak also, then that action. This all makes sense.

This is an unclean clean conversation, rather than some sort of almost racial or exclusive sort of bad behavior from Jesus. And, and, and I, I think that helps me to square what seems to be a very difficult circle.

David: [00:18:56] And I, I like to look at this and wonder just about this, this little dogs, and I don't want to weigh too much on it, but it, in, in the physical context of even the event, I love how often you see Jesus do this little invitation to faith. That Jesus just hangs. I had, how do I say this? John hangs a carrot, but not in a teasing way, but it just, he leaves the door open.

Just a little jar. Well, let, let the children be fed first for, it's not fair to take the children's food and throw it to the little dogs. And I wonder if that's just a little crack. If you've been called a dog all your time by a particular group of people and you. Hear somebody say little dogs, is it?

It's not Right, It's not right.

to take the children's food and throw it to the puppies. No. So no. Look at them. Look at the lady's response. And again, just to help a lot of translations I don't know what your translation does, John, but a lot of translations have her reply, sir. But the, the Greek word behind this is curious, right?

Which is the word that we use as law. So a lot of the commentators say, oh, well, sir, I mean, sir is a valid translation of the word curious. But so they say all the ladies just being polite really here because she wouldn't recognize Jesus as Lord. And I'm just not convinced that mark would agree with them on that.

Because the interesting thing is this is the only time in Mark's gospel that sir is used or, or curiosities used that would seem to potentially not mean Lord. So it's a bit of an outlier. So I find again, easily. Maybe this is the response that actually, no, the lady is saying, Lord, so you gave me the window and I'm taking it Lord.

She says, right. And then, and then I love this little comment there, which I'm going to paraphrase now, having been very precise about the translation of curiosity. I love the fact that really what she knows says to Jesus is the dogs are already eating and she knows it, right? Because we know that.

the, the, the man with the unclean spirit back in chapter five, he got healed.

So, so again, you see that the, the play that Jesus is saying something that must have a depth of irony to it because he's clearly he's reached outside of Israel already. Again, we don't know this for sure, from the text, whether this lady knows about that, but her response definitely seems to be the dogs are already eating the crumbs and you get this amazing sense that Jesus then notice this by the way, Jesus then heals the daughter and he's not even near the daughter.

The daughter is far away. So again, you see this expansion of the kingdom of God in the presence of Jesus that he's healed. So, I mean, it really sets us up then for, for the story that we're talking about 

John: [00:21:48] , and I, and I think there's a beautiful link even to Jesus replied to the words of the woman, David, which I think reinforces your suggestion, that curious here is not an outlier, but she has picked something up.

She, I, it's just a lovely idea that she's going actually a new, the bread is only for the children, but I'm here. I'm hearing that a lot of folks like us have had, I've had a fair amount of bread or crumbs dispense from your table. I mean, there's, it's almost sad. Hey, it's okay. You signed up, but I know, I know there's stuff going on.

That's the, that's the inference. I think if you add the curious into the idea that this woman is informed or ready about stuff Jesus has done in non-Jewish Gentile contacts, then I think the reply of Jesus in verse 29 is even more powerful, and he said to her, because of this word go now in my NIV version, it's, it's because of this reply.

And that's cool. I like that. But you know what, when you read that, literally because of this log-on because of this word, what word? The word she's. She spoke this well, what word did she speak? Well, it's not just the words of a desperate mother wanting her daughter hailed. I think it's leaning into no, you've got something here, right?

You've really got something of word here. This is more than just a mom. This is someone who believes, 

David: [00:23:36] Yes. 

John: [00:23:37] I'm I'm again, if our listeners are prepared to see that beautiful story in the wider context and in C forgive the pun, see the crumbs that have been dropped by mark in the text. Then the one on the surface of it, this looks like a fairly, almost brutal and callous conversation.

It's clearly not that it is clearly something else going on there. And I know we don't want to lean too hard into. Because that is speaking from silence and that's extremely dangerous at a hermeneutical level, but I cannot help fail that if we were reproducing this story, there would be a toll nation here that is much more tender than combative, but, but we can't argue from that.

But I think we could guess that from the words used at the fact that Jesus refers to little dogs, is that a play on little daughter even, or softening dogs from dogs to puppies which is a completely different as a dog owner, completely different type of conversation when you're total about puppies to people.

And when you're talking about dogs to people but then also that engagement Lord the word she speaks, the fact, I think she's in the know, and then Jesus says, because of this word, Go oh, Genoa. I just think that's magnificent. And so we've got the juxtaposition to the free, with a previous story of these grip, man who shooed know the word and have somehow got caught up with, well, let's make sure our hands are clean ceremonially, even if it means, violating the fundamental commands of the law to achieve that, which Jesus leans into in that story.

And then you've got a woman here who knows something 

David: [00:25:36] yeah. Yeah. 

John: [00:25:37] and what she knows opens up the possibility for her to have her daughter delivered. I just, I just gorgeous. It's so clever. It's so brilliant. And again, just, just one little final comment on this thought to our listeners. That's the value of slowing the thing down.

So the more we slow down these indirections and see the clues that the Raiders are given us. Actually, it can really help us with what seems to be a better than outlier story, but it's actually, it's, it's, there's nothing outlier about this. This is absolutely representative of the type of ministry Jesus has engaging in undertake of people he's connecting to.

Okay.

David: [00:26:18] and it's like that, that notion of. You can be right and not be right.

all at the same time. It's you know, Jesus has this argument with the Pharisees and he says, even sometimes you actually, and this is one of his arguments early in chapter 70. Sometimes you even use one aspect of the law to prevent you from doing another aspect of the law.

You, you play them off against each other. So on a surface level, you could say, oh, well, well that was just and right. What was done, but actually it wasn't just in, right. There's a way to do everything right. And still be actually wrong. And then you get this class off. Well, you know what, realistically, I'm not sure I'm actually here to help you lead in your little daughter.

Well, that. could be quote unquote. Right. But for the Jesus that.

we see in scriptures that yet, but that's Okay.

Right. It's it's stunning. And that then drops us into he's now, back in the Decapolis. And, and why important to join those two things is even notice in, in the little story, but the woman, he entered a house, it says in verse 24, he entered the house.

Didn't want anyone to know he was there yet. He could not escape notice. So you seeing this, we're now at chapter seven and the word about Jesus is spreading so much. So that Greek speaking Syrophoenician women are coming to him and saying, Lord, you've got it. You've got to help me in this situation. So same thing happens again then.

So now he comes back through, into this region of the capitalists and they bring him this man who who can't hear and also has an impediment in his speech. So what do you want to do with this story then John, now that we've got there and we've set the background, which I think is going to help us with another Gentile person here.

And, and if, if you've been listened to this whole season, You notice where we started. I think this is really exciting. So I'm just jumping to the end for a little moment, but set this up. How do we know the Messiah has come? Right? Well, there's this list of miracles that Messiah will do that we've never seen happen in the whole of the old Testament.

And this will be one of those things is that people who can't hear and speak will receive their hearing and they're speaking again, but nobody expected it to be a Gentile that happened to you. So again, there's this little stitching together of, of the story that Jesus is, is doing these messianic miracles, but not to the people we expect. 

John: [00:28:51] Indeed. Absolutely. And in fact, I think it's a perfect place to start with this. When I was reflecting, reading over this there is a little parallel to Matthew, not, not so much on this, but a little parallel and Matthew sort of summarizes. So the story we're about to dig into a mark, I think Matthew gives a bit of a catch-all freeze in Matthew 15.

He says the people were amazed when they saw the, the people who could not speak speaking. The crippled mid well, the Liam walking and the Blaine scene, and Matthew concludes and they praised the God of Israel. They praised the God of Israel. Now, when I read that David, that little math, Matthew summary of the story we're about to dig into.

So our story, it seems to me is talked into that Matthew summary, okay. Mark on packs that, and, and it feels to me, or it seems to me from my research that the story we're about to look at is unique to mark and it's in the fullness of it. Which is lovely. Now, when I heard Matthew's summary, I could not help, but hear the echo of some of the great words of Jesus.

Favorite prophet. Yeah. And an Isaiah 35, it says these words say to those with fearful hearts, be strong, do not fear your God will come. He will come with vengeance and divine retribution. He will come to save you. Then the eyes of the blind. Will be open than the ears of the deaf on stopped. Then the Liam will leap like a deer and the mute tongue shout for joy water will gush forth in the wilderness, on streams in the desert.

And, and what's gorgeous. If you keep reading, it's a short chapter, Isaiah 35. If you keep reading, it says this in first hand and those the Lord has rescued will return. They will enter Zion with singing. Everlasting joy will crying their heads and gladness and joy will overtake them and sorrow and Simon will flee away.

Now I think the natural interpretation of that is well that's clearly God's peace. Being restored and re-engaging in a gorgeous covenant relationship with, with their God and, and and celebrating that. But if we are, if we are Matthew's little summary to the Mark's story, Matthew says to us, and they praised the God of Israel.

I love this. So, so you get this, this thing is part of what Jesus is doing in the Decapolis in the province of Syria, a boat, creating an opportunity for Gentiles to Prius, the God of Israel, which those words would have been traditionally interpreted for those inside the club. And yet here we have events starting to happen on the fringes of geographic political and ethnic issues.

That are literally making a way for Gentiles to praise the God of Israel. I love that link. I love that little summary of Matthew, which I think helps us connect to Isaiah. And then I think we come back into mark seven and we read this story even more dramatically because we've no potentially got this little link in mind that does that make sense?

Is that, am I over cooking that you

David: [00:32:42] Well, let me,

John: [00:32:42] all right.

David: [00:32:44] let me, let me say, it's really funny because we're, we both, obviously, you know how we work this as we go, let's talk about this passage and you do your research and I do my research and then we'd come and talk about it. So I got to mark 35 as well. And so this is what this is. I'm just, I'm having a funny moment here at John, which is probably showing my age.

Right. But do you remember that TV show count down? Do you remember that T and so one of the things that you used to do in that camp to ensure is at one point in the, in the game, They would bring a random series of numbers together. do you remember this? They'd bring a random series of numbers and then they give you an another number, which was the answer.

And you had to use all of these numbers to produce this answer, and then they would ask you and people would say, oh yeah, I've done it. And then they would ask you, now show me you're working. okay.

And they would say, well, I did it like this. And then the other person who did the same answer, but they would say, oh no, I did it like this.

Well, so what's fascinating is both of us have Come to the same point. We've got they're very different ways. Okay. So I'm going to know sure. I'm going to share my point, which will support your point, but have different working. Right. 

John: [00:33:55] Come on. 

David: [00:33:55] So.

At the time of Jesus across the, the Jewish community are spread out across the whole of the Roman empire.

One of the things this has happened is that Hebrew isn't being spoken all over the place. You've got a lot of Jewish people now and particularly Jewish proselytes who don't speak Hebrew. So the Bible gets translated the old Testament, which would be the Bible for them. It gets translated into Greek.

Okay. So w and that's called the step two again now in Isaiah 35. So I agree with everything you've said about Isaiah 35. It definitely seems this is here for the people of God. It's this there's even this beautiful line in, in verse eight, about this highway, that's called the holy way that the unclean, I think of it, this right, the unclean shall not travel on it.

Okay. So, so just bear might everything we're saying, but mark chapter seven, this discussion about who's clean and who's not clean, same discussion happens over in Matthew, by the way, in the chapter that you referenced. So there's clearly parallels going on there. So the unclean or not traveling on this, on this pathway, it's for God's people.

Right. Okay. So bear that in mind, in the church in verse five and six. Exactly. As you just read eyes of the, of the blinder on open, the ears of the deaf are unstopped. Those who can't walk. My translation says a leap like a deer and the tongue of the speechless will sing for joy. Right, but the, the translator of the set two again, so the group of whoever it was that translates it from Hebrew to Greek uses a really unusual Greek word.

McGee LaLanne, right? Unclearly speaking, or difficulty speaking would be how that would be translated. It's the only time in the entire Greek translation of the old Testament that that word is. used. Okay. So now come over, you know where I'm going to now come over to mark chapter seven.

Okay. They brought to him a death man who had McGee LaLanne. And guess what? 

John: [00:35:54] Hey 

David: [00:35:54] guess what? McGee LaLanne. It's the only time that word is used in the new Testament. Okay. So, so, so, so I don't think 

I cannot imagine that it's impossible to draw the link , to Isaiah 35 there. Because, because it's like, this is, it's not a word you hear normally, but you've been raised listening to the reading of Isaiah in Greek all the time.

So, so, and this passage is a huge passage. It's one that people go to regularly, it's in the it's in the worship. So that word is a trigger I'm I'm. I

would bet the house on it, John, that that word is a trigger that a person who's familiar with, the Greek translation of Isaiah jumps to immediately and says, wait a minute, I know what you're doing here.

And in mark, you've had a conversation about who is unclean, and now you can then think about this highway and no unclean she'll travel on it. It's as if they've just added some extra lanes to the highway, the highway is now wider. And so, so there's a sense that prophetic working out of the Messiah is now being brought in to a wider group of people, mark seven is actually making Isaiah 35 points.

I mean, so, so Yes. John, I'm totally on board with you. And some I'm all in, all my cards are on the table. 

John: [00:37:16] David, that was, that was, that was, I was worth turning up for a month. That was absolutely phenomenal. I've never, never, ever. So like a kiss. Our listeners think where we're like contrived and Mick, this is a scripted thing. That's blown me away now. I was absolutely certain that, that that was the only reference to that word in the new Testament.

So I'd spotted that in my research and looked at that. And that was one of the things I was going to raise with you a little bit. Yeah. But I, I did not, you know, would always be waxing lyrical about Isaiah 35. And you were, you were waiting with the lake, the, the gold standard praise there, David.

That was  listen, if you're listening to this on the treadmill, get off the treadmill right now and go, wow, come on. That was amazing. I genuinely isn't that isn't that gorgeous. I mean, I've studied the Bible. All my adult life, David, I have never seen the Isaiah 35 in the Septuagint link before to mark chapter seven.

Boom, boom. Well, and a kid that just starts magnificent wit and doesn't it show again? Mark was not random here. This is not, this is not just a story that they're, they are connecting ideas. They are pulling together. So magnificent threads. From the text of the tunnel into the life of Jesus. And this is almost, it's, it's too good to be random.

It has to be deliberate. And it has to, it has to see something deeply powerful. So I'd love that. So we, again, we have, we, we got to Isaiah 35 completely different ways, but I think I ha it has to be said, ladies and gentlemen, David Harvey definitely got the praise for that one. That was magnificent, man.

I'm, I'm rocking on that. I'm writing that down and I I'm, I'm having that. That's phenomenal. I love it.

David: [00:39:10] is it? And, and so it's, it's beautiful because we, we think about resonance and sometimes you think, are we pushing that too far? But we all have these there's there's moments where, you know, famous movies, for example, that have famous lanes in them, Europe, you're a movie buff giant. And now that we're starting to be allowed to go back to the movie theaters, those.

Sometimes, if you arrive early enough, I imagine you're the type of person that arrives early to the, to the movie theater. And, and before the trailers, some people might not even know this happened, but before the trailers, they show a little trivia questions and this, and this quotes from movies, and perhaps, you've got a friend that likes movies and they will sometimes quote a famous quote just in normal conversation from a movie.

And you go off of that from that that's from that movie. Yeah.

 And That's the thing that we're talking about here. When we do this, that if something's unusual and has a very particular way to phrase it, that isn't normally spoken it does.

draw your mind to other places because sometimes people might think, well, that's a little far-fetched, you're hanging this all in one word, but actually we do this in our day-to-day lives all the time that we drop quotes or quips or little references to things and, and people laugh in the moment.

People laugh. We know, oh, you've got what I'm referring to. So I, I, without one is the belabor the point, this is not far fetched in terms of how humans work. If something's culturally familiar, you can nuance and reference it and people will get what you're referencing. 

John: [00:40:54] For sure. And I think too, to sort of add a little bit of weird in that it's remembering that our, our writers in the new Testament were serious words. I mean, these are people who take the written text and even the oral reading of the tax, then the memorization of the text deeply, deeply, deeply, seriously.

So it's hard for us as 21st century, Western people who, most of us are suffering from some sort of digital amnesia and information obesity most of the time, because we have so much stuff, common artists that we, we forget so much stuff, or we don't need to remember so much because we've got access to digital platforms that help us remember.

But in the first century world, none of those ideas were available. So, so the commitment to learning, leaning into understanding the details. And I think this is something for us to remember. A Jewish worldview when it came to the Bible was committed to detail and detail was important that the slightest different pronunciation of a word in some cases could literally change the word.

And one, one mark could change the entire meaning of a word and how that's placed. So, so the, the attention to detail, and I think it's one of the reasons we can trust the text because the attention of the detail of the Jewish authors is, is, is usually profound. And I think you've got one such example here of a young man leaning into a very important idea and connecting that to Jesus.

David: [00:42:28] It's it's just Stunning.

It's stunning to think of that. Cause start to see why Mark's telling you these particular stories, but, but  there's some serious, heavy lifting going on in the, in this chapter because he's taking messianic expectation. He's attaching it to Jesus, but not only that he's widening this to use Isaiah's language, this highway of the Lord, he's widening it to include people that previously would have been.

Thought excluded. And if you think about the way he's put this whole narrative together, know, we started off with, we're not sure your Jewish disciples are, are, are doing things properly when they sit down to eat Jesus and mark sort of saying, well, Fasten your seat belts because wait, till you see where this is going to end, I'm going to suggest that these Gentile people experiencing God's healing is the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecies from the great book Isiah it's it it's, it's phenomenal. work at that sort of level and controversially 

John: [00:43:31] It is phenomenal. It is. It's totally, totally, totally amazing. Absolutely. I love it. I love it.

David: [00:43:37] And what do you think of the healing itself, John? So we actually, it's, again, another, we saw earlier in this series, although later in Mark's gospel, we saw another very earthy healing from Jesus. So, so if you think again, we're tying the two stories together, you've Got this Greek speaking Syrophoenician woman who Jesus isn't even present to and she's healed.

But now with this character, Jesus is very pressing happy. 

John: [00:44:11] Present. Absolutely. Literally. And his fear certainly is it's. It's incredible. And of course you've got, you've got his to pick up on your free, his presence illustrated in taking him aside privately. We've seen that before Jesus removing for one reason or another, removing him from the praise of the crowed.

And we could surmise as to why that happens. And then he puts his face angers in his ears and he spits. Now I was, I was reflecting on the spitting bit divot and, and I was thinking about the fact we've seen Jesus spit in the gospels and at least two other occasions, if my, if my sort of recollections and researches.

Correct. So we've got Jesus and a story we've already dealt with. In fact, one of our, one of our podcast titles is did he just spit or did he spit or it's? I mean, it really is a, it's a fantastic episode. I would encourage if are any listeners joining us know for the first time, go back to that one.

That is a stunning conversation and it's well worth your time. It'll blow your brains eight. Absolutely fantastic. But of course you have Jesus. on the person. And, and we discussed, the fact was, was he literally, spitting into empty sockets? There's a phenomenal sort of lovely nuanced there.

And then in John nine, again, a blind man, interestingly John name he spits on the groaned and a mixed clay. So we've seen Jesus spit through. No, the inference here seems to be, to me, if I understand the reading of this tax properly east Jesus is spitting out from it. He's not spitting out the man he's not spreading onto his body.

He's not spitting into his fierce. He's not spitting. It seems to be fingers in the entities hits. It's almost like he's. Can I say this carefully, it's like, he's getting rid of something without over, over applying that. So the spitting here doesn't seem to be a boat. It doesn't seem to be integral to the actual miracle.

Like the other two. It seems to be almost something expelled from him, which seems potentially to correlate with this deep sigh that he brings to this moment of healing as well. So it is it's behavior at this moment that we don't seem to see from Jesus in any other place fingers in the ears, the spitting out, and then the sigh.

And, and they seem to be deeply intimate, deeply personal sort of compassionate expressions.  

David: [00:46:55] there's a sense in which Jesus looks a little, like some sort of ancient miracle worker in this or potions person, right. I'm going to stick my fingers in your ears. I'm going to, I'm going to spit and you're right. The grammar?

the way that Greek is able to structure its grammar, I think you would want to translate having spat.

He then touched his tongue. So you definitely don't want to be reading this as Jesus spitting in the man's face. For sure. That would, that would be spitting and spitting is you're right. It has a. It has resonancies in, in the ancient in the ancient context, in fact, you see, even, even Paul talking about how about how, when people saw him, they didn't spit around him.

So spitting can often be a way of sort of warding off evil in the ancient world. It can be a way of surf. There's a lot of things involved in, in, in what happens when you, when you spit. What I think is interesting is that the cautious, don't hear me saying what I'm not trying to say here, but what's interesting is that none of those things heal him.

Right? So he puts his fingers in his ears. He spits and touches his toes. Then he looks up to heaven in size, but it's when he says be open. And so there's still this sense that there's almost a contrast that Mark's making here. That there's the stuff that maybe people are expecting. And then there's actually what performs the miracle is the word of Jesus.

So, so we're now seeing the consistency again, we've got the non touching miracle before this one, actually it's Jesus saying be open. That seems to be the driving aspect. And so I almost find myself wondering with this is that we have a man who. Communication would be highly complex. And in the ancient world, particularly, are we seeing Jesus just very much present to him as a way of almost guiding the man through what's about to happen, right?

That, that he's touching him. He's, he's touching the areas where this man struggles and then we get this Aramaic, that comes but it definitely has this feel the whole text as like, Mark's very interested in the process. He he's describing it in quite some detail as to how this as to how this works.

But I, for me, it's just noticing that it's actually still the word of Jesus that does the work. I find that quite interesting. John 

John: [00:49:30] No, it's brilliant. And, and, the tax really does bear that out at this, at the imperative, be opened at this his ears were opened, his tongue was loosened. And of course that plays into that idea that somehow his tongue was tied or restricted in some way. And he began to speak plainly love that.

Love that. So, so yeah, it's, it's that, it's that word. And we've seen the word release the young woman in the previous story from her demon possession and know the word releases this and in the Gentile context where perhaps again, being careful where perhaps practices of Superstation may have been.

Rife. And if you do this, this, this, and this, it'll all work out here. We have two examples of Jesus speaking and the word itself does its work. I love your suggestion about is Jesus physicality in this situation, something about being tendered to the man, guiding the man through the process of man who would have felt quite isolated and maybe intimidated by what was going on.

The fact that Jesus takes him into a private place to do that. So that there's no interference from the crowed. I do like that idea. It's it's I, I must admit I'm I'm still not exactly sure. Why Jesus does those things in terms of fingers in the air, touching the tongue spitting. So, so I'm just going, okay, there's something going on here?

I, I'm still not quite sure. I understand why Jesus did all that because ultimately it's his command that looses the man and brings a hearing to his ears. But, but maybe it is for the benefit of the man. Great, great insight there, David as a reflection to try and help us. And and sometimes of course we have to behave in certain ways that are as much about being compassionate to people as it is about any process to the healing itself.

I think all the things, I'm a, card-carrying Pentecostal. I've been one for most of my life, in terms of being in a Pentecostal church and, and having a Pentecostal experience at the age of 12. 

David: [00:51:50] Mm 

John: [00:51:51] And obscene. I've seen sometimes people who are vulnerable physically and people who are sick and people who are desperate, not always in the process of praying for them are in the process of trying to get them that miracle.

We haven't always treated them well. Do you know what I mean? 

David: [00:52:11] totally. Totally. 

John: [00:52:12] And actually you think, oh, I think we could have probably treated that person a little bit better, or just been a bit more tender there or a bit more sensitive to them. And I love this idea of Jesus and privacy. I love the fact now it could be to do with he, he, he, he doesn't want this broadcast, but I do like the fact that this is not a site.

This is not, this is not a performance. This is, I really want this man to be free. And therefore I'm going to what I'm about to do. I'm going to do privately. So I think there's a lot going on there within the context of of this, this healing that Jesus brings here. It's beautiful.

David: [00:52:50] it's interesting what you say, John, as, as Well,

about how often the attempt to over analyze the logics of healing become very damaging to people. I think that we have, because similarly, my background and experience is such that I've seen a lot of. Things that, yeah.

I think you worded it really well. It just the person who, who should, who deserves the tenderness, doesn't get it.

And sometimes even I've noticed how often we sort of delve down into what we would call theodicy the defense of God and the defense of how does God how does God exist and, and love us when there seems to be so much evil around, and I've seen people that are hurting and suffering or get dragged into really bad theorizing as to why this is the case.

And there's something about how Jesus. Doesn't do that in this situation here, but why do I think that's interesting again, because the passage started with an analysis of what makes something unclean, what causes the problem. And it's interesting. It's simply just interesting to note I don't, you can't build from this and this, but it's just interesting to know that Jesus doesn't know.

Deal in either of the two miracles that follow this with, with anything to do with the cause. Jesus, isn't interested in, in, in what caused this sort of thing to happen, which in the ancient world was a hugely fascinating conversation about, well, that again can be quite abusive to the person who is injured who is suffering a sale.

Well, maybe God's done this and how does this work? And, and, and what's the story here. And Jesus sidesteps, all of that. It doesn't even come up instead. You just get this tenderness towards the woman whose daughter you know, who, who, who takes the moment of faith and grabs it. And Jesus, speaks to that.

And then this person who is brought to Jesus and, and healed. So I think. Real importance for us in terms of what does it look like to follow Jesus in the present is to always remember that people who are suffering are not our research project are not a philosophy space for us to wonder why these things happen, but rather to model Jesus, which is to show tenderness and support and compassion towards those who are, who are in pain.

I that's would be sort of my response to that. John 

John: [00:55:20] no, I love that. I love that. And, and having, having gone out to the front of church services many times to be prayed for, for one reason or another, as a human, , you walk out and you go, I hope I'm not embarrassed here. I hope no one tries to make a fool of me here, or I don't become a sermon illustration.

Do you know what I mean? Now? I know people say, well, that's your pride. You could over your pride, just humble yourself. At the end of the day. If you get it, get your healing or your, or you get a blessing or you get something that you were, you were hoping for sure. What does it matter? I hear that I do.

I hear that, but, but I also see a tenderness in Jesus in the way, in certain cases, he treats people and seems to be aware of some sort of public pressure. So had the crowd been watching closely when he was doing all of this. They may have reacted. They may even have sought to copy these ideas or our make some sort of program out of them.

Or the man himself may have been deeply embarrassed or feeling somewhat humiliated. So, so I, I do, I, it would be a little, maybe a little encouragement to those who love to pray for the sick or the wounded or the broken. Remember that person you're laying your hands on. So real person, they have real feelings.

They've made a real journey. Some of them have made very significant, difficult, and even horrible journeys. The last thing they need is to be further humiliated by us as we seek to bring the glory of God to bear. So, yeah, it's a, I it's a good reflection. I think David

David: [00:56:57] interesting. Isn't it? It's just this, this pastoral practice available. If we look carefully at what Jesus is doing, the other thing, John, just, just as we sort of round this out, that interests me. Is the connection to the messianic status of Jesus. The there's the, that we've had, we've looked at it already, but it's coming in the next chapter in mark chapter eight, you have another SPI, the other mark and spitting story, which has to do with somebody who cannot see here.

We have it to do with somebody who cannot hear. So I'm wondering sometimes if there's a little connection going on with these miracles, having, Mark's giving us very detailed focus on these miracles, because they're the ones that lead the, allow you to join the dots and say, wait a minute. As I have 35 somethings going on here more than just a healing.

This suggests that Messiah has come. And then you get the sense that in chapter eight, he tells the man, again, like don't, these are the miracles. He tells people not to go and tell anyone about like, keep it, keep this, keep this quiet. But you get this brilliant, brilliant little bit here. And this is a theme.

You see this from time to time throughout Mark's gospel. Jesus says, don't tell anyone, but verse 36, Jesus ordered. Tell, no one, 

John: [00:58:12] Yeah.

David: [00:58:15] I love this just in case. Like if anybody's ever is everybody ever feels like, goodness, nobody listens to anything. I say, just look at what this says here. And this is about Jesus, But, the more that he ordered them, the more zealously they proclaim. So Jesus like she's, don't tell him no, like seriously don't tell anyone then if every time that he tells them not to the more earnestly and zealously their committee to telling people about this this, this sort of disobedience to Jesus.

John: [00:58:48] But, but, does not lean back into our lovely Isaiah reflection. That that lovely chapter in Isaiah 35 concludes with they will enter Zion with singing Cheeto. It's it. Your ever lasting joy will Crow in their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

And, oh, I love that. I love this. Well, I know you're telling us to be quiet, but it's really like, we can't that nothing like this has ever happened to us before. And I love their little freeze, the little freeze here in the final verse of our story. Verse 37, they say he has done everything. Well it's, I mean, that's a, that's a  tax rate there, isn't it?

I mean, that's just absolutely gorgeous. He has done everything well. And, and I love, I love that sort of sense of the reason perhaps they're rejoicing and celebrating is because they have never seen anything like this before. They've never really, and again, we don't want to over cook this, but, but, th th they haven't had many, rabbis cross into the capitalists and bring good news.

It's, it's, it's normally been the message of judgment and vengeance and separation and uncleanness. And here's a rabbi coming across under the capital school. And actually the kingdom of God is here for you. And let me, let me show it, but, but try and keep it quiet. And, and of course the more they try and put the lid on this thing the more it explodes it is absolutely beautiful.

 David: [01:00:30] Okay. That's it for this episode, our second texts for this week, we'll release on Thursday. But if you want to get in touch with either office about something, we said, you can reach out to us on podcast two techs.com or by liking and following the two techs podcast on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube. 

If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it. If you left a review on your podcast app or one of our social media sites, and if you really enjoyed the episode, Please share it with a friend. Don't forget. You can listen to all of our podcasts over on our website@wwwdottwotax.com or wherever you get podcasts from. But that is it for this episode. We'll be back on Thursday. 

So until then, Goodbye.