Water into Wine | Miracles 13

In which John and David explore that one miracle that everyone seems know. An unusual story in comparison to some of the other miracle stories, but as we move into John's gospel we might see that how we understand this miracle might help us as we come to understand what John is doing in his Gospel.

• Click Here to read the text from John 2:1-12. 

Episode Outline

• 2:16 - John 2
• 4:42 - Making Sense of John
• 16:35 - The Prologue to the Gospel
• 25:30 - Jesus at the Wedding
• 37:08 - What’s happening behind the miracle?
• 44:13 - Revealing Glory

Episode 30 of the Two Texts Podcast | Meaning of Miracles Series 13

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Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021

Chapters

• 2:16 John 2
• 4:42 Making Sense of John
• 16:35 The Prologue to the Gospel
• 25:30 Jesus at the Wedding
• 37:08 What’s happening behind the miracle?
• 44:13 Revealing Glory

Transcript

Transcript is auto-generated by Descript.com

[00:00:00] Hi there. I'm David Harvey and I'm here with John Andrews and this is the two texts podcast. In this podcast, we're two friends in two different countries here every two weeks talking about two different texts from the Bible. This is our second season. It's about the miracles of Jesus. And this is episode 13.  

[00:00:26] And it's called Water into Wine.  

[00:00:31] David: So John, we are changing from Luke's gospel across the John's gospel. Most scholars think that John's gospel is probably the last of the gospels to be written. And, and Matthew, mark, and Luke known as the synoptic gospels from this Greek word have kind of almost seeing with one eye and they feel very familiar don't they? 

[00:00:51] And that it's as if John sat down and decided. I'm going to do a different type of gospel. I often think about it. Like, like the Christopher Nolan version of the gospel is going to tell a story that, you know, but I'm going to tell it in a very different way. And so like anyone that's engaged with John ruler realize, wait a minute, it starts differently. 

[00:01:08] Matthew and Luke who let's start with the beginning of June. Birth, John goes, how about we start with the beginning of creation and, and then the stories are different as well. The, the, the way the whole gospel works is very, very different, which I think is a beautiful feature of John's gospel, but in a series about miracles, it means that we have. 

[00:01:27] We start to see some miracles that we've not seen before, miracles that we don't encounter elsewhere. And we're gonna jump into John chapter two today to the first miracle of Jesus he's in here and it's quite a miracle, isn't it? 

[00:01:39] John: It's fabulous. It, it I was actually in Israel a few years ago, doing the Jesus trail Sones marvelous, marvelously religious. It was just a really cool walk from Nazareth to Capernaum. Took us four dads, my wife and myself my oldest daughter and my son-in-law and one of the stop boss was we walked from Nazareth to Kiana and they were genuinely trying to flog us bottles of. 

[00:02:00] That they were convincing us that, Jesus may have had a hand in actually, and I'm, I'm thinking that's a serious vintage, it's a serious vintage people. So, so yeah, it's a, it's a phenomenal story. And I can't wait to get into it. David beautiful, beautiful story given to us right at the beginning of John's gospel. 

[00:02:15] So that's it. 

[00:02:16] David: So, well, let me let me read it then for us. And so this is John chapter two, the wedding at Canaan. It says this on the third day even starts and you realize, wait a minute, John, what are you doing here? On the third day, there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee and the mother of Jesus was. At Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding when the wine gave out, the mother of Jesus said to him, oh, they have no wine. 

[00:02:52] And Jesus said to her woman, what concern is that to you? And to me, my hour has not yet come. His mother said to the servants, do whatever he tells. Now standing, there were six stone water jars for the Jewish rights of purification, each holding 20 or 30 gallons. Jesus said to them, fill the jars with water and they filled them up to the brim. 

[00:03:21] He said to them now draw some out and take it to the chief steward. So they took it when the steward tasted the water that had become wine and did not know where it comes. Though the servants who drew the watcher, knew the Stuart called the bridegroom and said to him, everyone serves the good wine first. 

[00:03:40] And then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk, but you have kept the good wine until now. Jesus did this, the first of his signs in Cana of Galilee and revealed his glory and his disciples believed in him. After this, they went down to Capernaum with his mother, his brothers and his disciples, and they remained there a few days. 

[00:04:10] John: come on, but I would have been a great wedding to be part of. What do you reckon? 

[00:04:14] David: Wouldn't it. Wouldn't it just, 

[00:04:19] John: Serious. 

[00:04:19] David: you imagine. 

[00:04:20] John: I love it. I love it. I love just as, just as a general observation, I love the fact that I was happened so often in the ministry of Jesus. We see something of the glory of the Lord. In the midst of the ordinary, the routine, the everyday. And you, you just get this incredible insight. 

[00:04:42] It's almost for me, David, a beautiful little nuance back to chapter one of John of the incarnation itself. The word became flesh, made his dwelling among us. Oh. And we have seen his glory, you get there. Gorgeous paradoxical tension of Jesus, as we understand him as a human. So an a form that everybody gets. 

[00:05:05] And yet, somehow in that human form, there is magnificent revelation of glory. And I think in this beautiful wedding, you've just got an ordinary wedding. Something catastrophic has happened where wine is running. Fast and under, in big trouble under the cultural level, they are in big trouble. 

[00:05:23] And then we get this in this ordinary domestic scene. We get a revelation of his glory and I, and I love that. I love the otherness of this moment. And I also love the ordinariness of this moment. And I think that is a representation of the incarnation itself. And, and in terms of that, it's just chapter two, following chapter one sort of thing. 

[00:05:45] David: The way that John sets it out. And I realized having just transitioned from Luke to John, you can't get a bit of whiplash in terms of how you go about reading texts. And I feel like it's important for me to always spot that, that we saw this from time to time in Luke, where there was like a two level drama going on and there was like, what's happening on the surface. 

[00:06:05] And then what's happening underneath. If you found that interesting in Luke, then you're going to love John aren't you, because this is how. All the time. So little throwaways. That his use of time is very interesting. Like this, it starts on the third day. So wait a minute. What's going on here? 

[00:06:26] Cause John's going to make a big deal of a third days. He's actually, and there's even a sense. He makes a big deal of the whole week and perhaps that's something we can, we can come back to today. If there's time. Then there's also this reference to all, this was the first of the signs. And you don't your interpretation of that doesn't necessarily impact a huge deal. 

[00:06:49] How you just read this miracle story, but it's worth noting isn't it? That John John seems to pick up on seven particular signs that journey us from the beginning of the story to the resurrection of Jesus don't they. 

[00:07:05] John: I love the symmetry of many of the things that john does a near illusion to that. So you, you get the. Seven wonderful scenes that this is the first one of, and, and in fact, we're going to reflect on a few more in the gospel of John and our podcasts. And then of course you get for joy and you, you also get nuanced, ended up magnificently the sort of seven I arm statements, which are massive ideas in the context of John positioning. 

[00:07:32] Jesus. As not simply the sea of your, of the world, but the embodiment of the IRM of God that he is IRR. And and you're getting these magnificent sort of, markers all the way through the gospel. It is, it is as if it is as if John is putting don't breadcrumbs. Begging us to pick them up and follow the trail. 

[00:07:53] And we are, we are introduced at it seems an amazing consistency. These glorious ideas are that these, these glorious revelations of Jesus and also glimpses of this glory in the. Beautiful miracles. So there is a consistent pattern. And of course, John writes at the end. I mean, he sort of gives us the reason for his rating rate at the end. 

[00:08:16] I I'm writing these things so that you will believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. So there's, there's no doubt that he's trying to establish. The magnificence and otherness of Jesus and his glory  

[00:08:27] David: so there, so there are these seven signs and, and I think it's worth just spending a moment talking about them a little bit more because it actually helps us, I think, understand a little bit of what John's doing in his gut. So I, I made an illusion to, at the very start. How do you start a gospel? Well, mark starts his gospel by Jesus. 

[00:08:49] Just sort of exploding onto the scene in his ministry. It's like, well, let's just begin. Yes. Jesus appears John, the Baptist in the desert we're off. Luke and Matthew of course then begin their gospel with this kind of birth story of Jesus rooting into fulfillment of prophecy. Hope for the future in this sort of this sort of thing, John, like you say. 

[00:09:11] He does something phenomenal in his gospel where I think he, he rewrites Torah. So we grow up with, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was void and formless and, and you get to the start of John's gospel. Imagine you're a Jewish person. You've grown up with these texts and John starts his gospel in the big. 

[00:09:36] John: Amazing. 

[00:09:37] David: Was the word. So, so he actually now tells you a new creation story and I use that term on purpose because it's quite, it's quite interesting. It's, it's a new version of the creation story. So where this gets interesting then is you start to see John talking about days quite a lot. Right now, this happened on the third day. 

[00:09:56] This is well, the third. If you actually, like, what do we mean by the third day, the third day of what? Third day of the week, third day, since Jesus had last been to a wedding, like if you just look at it as a standalone and it's not clear what the third day is until you start to realize that when you it's, it's the third day of John's gospel, that's happening. 

[00:10:18] Why that's significant for me is you have to go all the way to the end of John's gospel. And I think it's Tom, right? That, that first sort of alerted me to this in, in one of his books, that if you go to the start of the resurrection story at the end of John's gospel, the intro to that story is it was the beginning. 

[00:10:37] Of the 
 

[00:10:38] week. And so, so what we see John sort of doing is that you've had this kind of seven day old creation, which is rewritten in Jesus. And then the resurrection starts the beginning of new creation, which routes you into the stories of Isaiah and all this sort of thing. But once you've caught that idea, you then hang on top of that, the seven signs, right. 

[00:11:03] Which are all signs of. The, the control of Jesus, the creative ability of Jesus, the, so Jesus, can, can walk on water, create food, heal the sick, make the lame walk blind people who were, who were unable to see from birth. And he can even change, watch into white. And now there's seven of them. 

[00:11:25] And there's quite a big discussion amongst scholars as to what the seven are, right? Because some scholars say there's the changing of water into wine. There's the healing of the official son in John chapter four. There's the man who can't walk in John chapter five. And then the question is in John chapter six, is there the feeding of the 5,000. 

[00:11:45] And then the walking on water or are they one miracle story together then there's the manage on nine who is his born? Unable to see great story that we'll talk about soon. And then there's the raising of Lazarus. And the question for a lot of people is, is the seventh miracle. The raising of. Or is Jesus's resurrection, the seventh miracle story. 

[00:12:08] And it's kind of almost however you cut the pie. It's a pretty impressive way to put the gospel together. Isn't it? 

[00:12:14] John: Oh, phenomenal. It's absolutely phenomenal. And in the same way that if you really want to get the Torah, you've got to get Genesis one, one. Do you know what I mean? So you, you, you are struggling to understand the intricacy connectedness. Dynamism and glory of Torah, unless you're prepared to humbly bow down to Genesis one, one in the beginning, God creates the heavens and the earth seven glorious words in Hebrew. 

[00:12:48] And, and of course I absolutely see the unmissable parallel in the gospel of John that you can't. Get what John is trying to say in these, in this and his version of the creation week and the new week that begins post resurrection in Christ. Jesus, you don't get that unless you are prepared to start with humility and say, He is the word. 

[00:13:18] And he was there at the beginning and nothing is here without him. And of course that's a game changer for many people. Isn't it? So we can, many, many sort of ideas in the world can sit comfortably with a sort of a creation story. However, you cut that. But once you get into a gospel, it says actually the vocal point of this whole story is in the person of Jesus. 

[00:13:43] Then it is tremendously divisive, but also incredibly glorious. If, if we get that in the beginning was the word on grabbed at unaccepted, then the gospel of John just opens up in the same way that the creation story opens up the Torah and helps us to get the heart of God. So for me, it's the genius of John. 

[00:14:05] I mean, this is a brilliant piece of writing and sometimes as you say people, yeah. Because we try to read John's gospel and the way we maybe read Luke's, which is a bit more narratively feeling, if Luke reads like a story and it really is cool to follow, and it has a beginning and an end and a middle that we sort of identify, and then we try to rejoin like that. 

[00:14:27] And we've actually got. But on a completely different set of glasses to sort of read John, because John's not telling us a story. John is on packing the glory of what has been that, what is, and what will be. It's just an incredible gospel and filled with genius. Absolute genius. 

[00:14:46] David: I believe all the gospels are theology, but, but John is the one that probably most lets his theological point drive the story, so, so, so anyone reading John needs to be aware of the fact that John is doing these things to make theological points to you. 

[00:15:04] You mentioned it already, he says at the end, in chapter 20 verse 30, there are many other signs that Jesus did, but I've not told you about them. And because these signs have been told to tell you something specific and to draw you into something specific, isn't it. So things like in John's gospel, you're going to find Jesus he's clearing of the temple. 

[00:15:27] Really early in the story. And it's important to remember. That's probably not being driven by chronology. That's been driven that John wants you to get a theological point about Jesus early. He doesn't want to keep you to the ends to get that. I need you to know this and that. So therefore I'm telling it to you now. 

[00:15:44] John: Absolutely. 

[00:15:44] David: Which is, which is why I sometimes call it the Christopher Nolan of gospels. Right. When you watch his stories, some of his films where there's, you're, you're watching it and you're going, there's more going on here than I am aware. And I just need to, I'm going to need to read this a second time, or maybe a third time to try. 

[00:16:01] John: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. 

[00:16:04] David: and so I want to coach people to take your advice in that opening piece, that, that chapter one sort of verses one through two about verse 18. You want to almost have that memorized. Maybe if you can't recite it that's fair enough, but you want to have. In your mind, because, so if you think about let's just give me an example, verse three, all things came into being through him and without him, not one thing came into being right. 

[00:16:35] So that's verse three of John's gospel chapter one. So now jump back over to our miracle story and Jesus, his mother. W, they've got no wine and Jesus is like, well, what's that really going to do with us? And, but what's fascinating to me is that when does the miracle happen? Well, we don't know, but John wants you to know this shouldn't surprise you because I've already told. 

[00:16:59] That nothing comes into being without Jesus. So, so there's, there's almost a sense that he can underplay the physical mechanics of the miracle story, because, because you're in the presence of the person who created everything, right. And, in a few, in a few verses time, Jesus is going to be sat beside her. 

[00:17:19] Jesus, the living water of life and the lady's going to say to him, but you don't have anything to pull water over the well with. And John wants you to laugh at this and see the irony of, of saying these things to Jesus. I don't know. Do you D do you resonate with that, John? That's how I kind of read this canine story. 

[00:17:35] John: sure, for sure. You brought a beautiful reflection for our listeners when reading Luke try on, get into the ideas contained in the Magnificat and, and some of the statements of Zechariah and some of those ideas that are clearly almost programmatic for, for look there are then they open up gorgeous little. 

[00:17:55] Ideas that, that, well, they're not little ideas, they're massive ideas, which then are seeded all the way through the gospel. So you're seeing links, which Luke is doing brilliantly in collaborative. I think John's, what's sometimes referred to as John's prologue is, is one of the things. Pieces of introduction to any work that you could have. 

[00:18:15] It is, it is stunningly brilliant. And and I think what John is doing is setting up, he's sort of saying, right, I'm going to throw a lot of stuff at you, but here's the framework through which to understand here's, here's the paragraph. Put those on and you'll be able to read everything I'm about to say through those glasses, you'll see them properly. 

[00:18:36] And, and that is, I would urge that upon our readers, because if you jump into these stories in Acela. If you jump into these stories in a vacuum and we've been urging them, of course, never, ever tried to do that. Try and always place them in their context. But of course, in John's gospel, you're not simply placing some of these stories in the context of the passage. 

[00:18:57] You need to place them in the context of joy. Overall commitment on what he's trying to build. And if you want to see what John's trying to build, the first Dean team versus will rock your world. So, so that's, that's the framework he's building, the, the law comes by Moses, but grace and truth came from Jesus. 

[00:19:14] That, that Jesus came from the father full of grace and truth and all through the gospel of John, we're seeing grace and truth, grace and truth, grace and truth over and over and over and over again. And you get the magnificence of that. And so the prologue sets us up, builds us a freedom, whatever analogy you want to use gives us a lens through which to view these magnificent stories. 

[00:19:37] David: John is a grownup's gospel. Right. And by that, I don't mean don't read it to your children. Well, I mean, is, I think John thinks you, the reader are very clever, right? And so he doesn't, John doesn't patronize you , as a reader and he doesn't. He doesn't make things simple for you. 

[00:19:55] So it's like, I think he says, read the prologue and I expect you to remember this because I'm going to say things elsewhere. So the one that comes to me just as an example, is in John chapter seven, the Pharisees get involved in an argument of it where Jesus is from. Right. And the funny thing is, if you just read John chapter seven, John. 

[00:20:15] Never really clarifies the answer to the problem. And so if you just read John chapter seven, as we, as Christians often do, I'm just gonna jump into John chapter seven. Today we go, well, that's a little strange because it's not really clear what the answer to this question is. But I think John thinks you're clever enough to remember what you said already. 

[00:20:33] The Pharisees are arguing about whether Jesus comes from Bethlehem or Galilee or whatever, and John's like, well, I told you back in chapter one, he comes from God. And so, so why, why are you arguing about how she was born in? And, and I think that for me, that encouraged me to remind me that when I engage with John, he, he doesn't want to make it simple for me because there's more debt he's inviting. 

[00:20:56] I think more deeply about what he's doing. And, and I wonder sometimes if even he uses the story of the wedding and the canner to lean me into that to say, okay, wait a minute, just let me show you how a miracle can work when the creator is a present amongst us. And we start to push that, push that a little bit along. 

[00:21:14] John: Yeah. And, and I think it's a great encouragement to people who are seeking to engage with the Bible, but don't be put off by something that looks a bit difficult. Don't be put off by something that doesn't come to you easily. Remember these writers are building an incredible story that there's a context of that story in terms of their Jewish world. 

[00:21:36] And John would, would expect his Jewish audience to really get some of these ideas really, really, really, really quickly, even if they were very controversial and very difficult. But actually for us who are coming to this inch in text, 21 centuries, There are enough clues within John's gospel to help us work our way through it and not be completely bamboozled by some of these things. 

[00:22:01] But we must not fall into the trap of taking individual statements of Jesus out of the dynamic fluid. Cohesive context of John's prologue. And once you see that, then it will help to connect the dots in terms of of what we're doing in that gospel. So it really, really is important. Any, any leaders or preachers are listening to us, dig into the prologue, saturate yourself in that. 

[00:22:28] And then the gospel will suddenly look inside a very, very different as you do. So. 

[00:22:32] David: And, and being careful to note how John uses characters, how he express his people, how he you, how you introduce these people to us and, you look at Nicodemus as an example, in John's gospel. He comes at night from the dark to the light of the world, and then he slowly develops over the course of this gospel to becoming a person of, of, of, to defense Jesus, and then looks after Jesus. 

[00:22:58] And John, I think is archiving something for you there. Oh, look what happens when you follow. This is what's going on. And so, so I think it's always, it's really important stuff to say what we're seeing here, that, that look carefully. Look at what people are saying. Look at how they're phrasing things. 

[00:23:13] It's such a fun gospel to spend time in. 

[00:23:16] John: phenomenal. It's phenomenal. Yeah, I, I love John's gospel and the more I dig into John's gospel, the more I I'm completely, overwhelmed by the glory of this incarnational moment, the word becomes flesh and make. Dwelling, it sets up his tent among us so that we can see his glory and at the wedding in Kiana, we get a glimpse into his glory, which is just pretty spectacular, really. 

[00:23:43] And 
 

[00:23:43] Fun as well. Yeah. 

[00:23:45] David: So let's jump in there then John, let's spend a few minutes in this actual wedding itself. W where do you want to start?  

[00:23:52] John: I love the fact he was just invaded. I think it's, I, so like I remember years and years ago watching an old movie of Jesus, I think it was called the greatest story ever told. And I remember watching as a kid thinking, wow, this is fabulous. And then I watched it as an adult. Who is that? And, and I suddenly realized that Jesus, that they were setting up was pretty like blonde and boring and other uncertainly, not Jewish. I mean, the guy that was, that was set up for. Hey would that he was definitely absolutely not Jewish. And, and you're gone. Oh my goodness. That's terrible. 

[00:24:29] I'm not sure I would follow that Jesus to the end of the street. What, what I love about this is that Jesus and his disciples get the invite. So there's clearly Jesus though, his ministry is, is beginning and starting to gather momentum. He is clearly still. Deeply intimately connected to his community. 

[00:24:49] He's connected enough to be invited to ordinary events like weddings, and he is down to earth enough to accept the invitation. And I love that. And I, I love the fact that, that we cannot imagine in Jesus and his disciples, not dancing at this wedding, not engaging in the joy and the laughter and the fun at this wedding. 

[00:25:09] I, it's impossible to. I imagine that that couldn't have happened. We w he would have embraced this woman as a good Jewish man and enjoyed every moment if, if he remained there every moment of the week of that wedding feast if he, if he wanted to stay there. So, so it and of course, it's remembering this is an event. 

[00:25:30] I mean, this is like, for us in the west, we rock up to a wedding service. And, a 45 minute service or a one hour service and in a bit of a reception afterwards, then we all go home. Or maybe there's a bit of a dance and a disco afterwards or something, but, but it's essentially, it's done in half a day. 

[00:25:46] This thing where we're in, we're out and we're gone a Jewish wedding and new world of Jesus. This is a week long event. And this is celebration. This is joy. This is life. This is at the very center of the community. And also this is a hugely important honor moment for the. So, so when we're about to discover that the wine is running out or has Ronit, this is a catastrophic cultural moment in that world. 

[00:26:11] David: I've, I think it would probably be still true to this day that if you hosted a big party and ran out of, something to drink during the party, it would be a little. Embarrassing, but, but then you've got this, this role of Mary then in, in, in the text that she now comes along and is the catalyst for something to happen. And I love this interaction where she's like, well, they don't have any wine. And Jesus, he comes across a little abrupt. Most of the English translation software. 

[00:26:39] A little bit, but, but his sort of answer to her is, is like, like woman, what is there between us? The observant Greek student will realize that this is the same phrase that Jesus is asked by demons on a couple of occasions where they say, they say to Jesus, or what is there between us. And Jesus says, a woman, what is there to become, but then that my hour has not yet come. 

[00:27:04] And now you get another Johanna. Enters the freight. Doesn't it. 

[00:27:09] John: It does. It does cause, cause obviously I think, I think on every occasion I've code at 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 occasions, apart from this one. So again, magic number of seven there in John's gospel on seven occasions when Jesus referenced. Our in that way, he is generally an almost explicitly referring to the honor of his death, his crucifixion. 

[00:27:35] So it's interesting that Jesus, that the response of Jesus and what seems to be a fairly, a mom reaching out to her son in any chance you can help here. And there is a little interesting Sade ways you answer your debit, which it could be a red herring could, could be useful. My, my research has shown that in, in first century Jewish weddings at sometimes the guests would also contribute to the cost of the wedding. 

[00:27:59] So it wasn't just all on the family, that there would be a sense of which actually the community would contribute depending on the circumstances of the farm. And so if Mary has discovered the vomit away and it's like, she's turning into Jesus and can you make a contribution, can you help vote and some way or another? 

[00:28:18] It's interesting. She doesn't there's nothing from the tax. That's suggesting she's expecting him to do a miracle, but she is expecting him to do something, but his response. Clearly is leaning into our response from him that he's about to do something much greater than maybe she's even asking and linking this to this RF of crucifixion. 

[00:28:42] So, so it's a very, it's a very interesting, are they on the cm with. Or is there a sort of, are they speaking the same language, but divided by, by sort of a meaning here at different meaning. And it is a very powerful moment, what's this got to do with me sort of thing.  

[00:28:59] David: I don't know how then she, she then turns right into the, to the servants and says, just do whatever he says. Okay. 

[00:29:07] John: good. A good Jewish mother it's just ignores them and just says, oh yeah, just, just do what he says. 

[00:29:13] David: So, so then there's this question. John throws in there. We're standing there six stone water jars for the Jewish rights of purification. Again, you want to think a little bit about the numbers that are going on here. This like, what's John doing six, not seven. I mean a lot of scholars say they'll feel the problem with John's gospel is when you see numbers, you feel like something must be going on. 

[00:29:42] most scholars save. I actually don't really, it's not really obvious if this number six is of any significance, but what does seem to be significant that these watcher jars, it's not a pile of drinks bottles over in the corner. There they're jars. John tells you for the Jewish rights of purification. 

[00:29:59] That's an interesting little teak, isn't it? That that is there because in John's gospel, there is this tension around the developing of the story isn't there. So there's, you've said already grace and truth comes through Jesus. The lock-ins through Moses, grace and truth. There's this. Some scholars have, in historically this has become a source of, of some antisemitism and, John's gospel has, has become uncomfortable in a lot of these places. 

[00:30:26] I often think that while we definitely, definitely want to be aware of all of that. John is writing in the, in, in the late first century. Not aware of how people are going to abuse his text in the future. And so I think for John to say, I'm seeing progression and growth, we're growing from what God was doing through us as Israel and into what God's doing for us now in Christ. 

[00:30:51] I think John can see that without being anti-Israel without being anti-Jewish, John himself appears to be Jewish, so, so. Yes, exactly. So, so I feel like without dismissing people's modern day concerns, we can let John be John at, at some level and, and, and, and work that out. But it strikes me as interesting that we've again, go back to the prologue. 

[00:31:18] We're good. The law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus. So John has alerted us to, you're going to see some progression in this story. And is there a level of which now that Jesus is. Maybe we don't need these purification jars for what they used to be used for. So now we're going to do something else with them. 

[00:31:39] I mean, I'm I cause, cause bear in mind this just a little comment and then I'd love to know whether you agree with me. Notice what the, what the the braids groom says. He says, oh, wait a minute. This orders back to front, ordinarily you start with the good and things. Get worse, but this wedding. Things started not great and are getting better. 

[00:31:59] And like, isn't that a commentary on what John is doing in Jesus? He's saying John, seeing the story is arking upwards. This story is getting better, not worse. So I just, I wonder if there's something subtle going on in that John 

[00:32:12] John: Absolutely. And, and I think, we can read John two and just see at one level water in Dwayne and the wedding gets saved and people's cultural embarrassments are, are Delivered as it were, but of course, it's these little details in the story that are all leaning into something. And if we start it from the trajectory of the, in the beginning was the word, the words made flesh the words, common grace and truth. 

[00:32:39] Then there are clues that John is dropping all the way through. It is not a stretch to say and ticking, especially the, the jars use for ceremonial washing and then producing something brand new. In them are not just brand new spectacularly, brand new. I mean, we're, we're the, the master of the bank would have scored. 

[00:33:04] This is the best Wayne. Why, why you serve in it at the end? When, when normally you, you, you serve the bad stuff at the end. So. 

[00:33:12] David: No way nobody cares 

[00:33:14] John: When nobody cares when they're, when they're maybe not even noticing what's what they're drinking. So, so it's not even just that, that he's used a ceremonial jars, but it is the fact that he has produced something of spectacular quality ode of water. 

[00:33:30] He has produced wine. And, and I think David, if you then lean further on into the. And you see Jesus in John's chronology then going to Jerusalem and doing what he does at the temple. I, for me, there is an unmissable link between the water in the wane and in John's chronology, the immediate cleansy. Of the temple someday, that the temple stands as the core symbol of what Moses represents. 

[00:34:08] It's the core embodiment of Tanakh and, and the center of Judaism and the Jewish world. And, and immediately after changing water into wine and Jesus heads there. And creates a moment of controversy where he is cleansing out what is in order to make room for something new and something, something better. 

[00:34:34] And that's an unmissable idea, and I I'm deeply saddened by it by the sort of anti-sematic suggestions around John. I really, I, I can't see it anywhere. I think, as an Irishman, I can say things about our Irishman. Sometimes that I can get away with things because I'm, I'm Irish. And I'm, you're able to say things knowing that there's, this is not about reassess and it's not about superiority it's simply, but I can call it because. And I think with John, you get, you get a strip forwardness around some of his, his progressional arguments where he's saying, actually we're moving on from Moses to Jesus at set up for us in the prologue. We're moving into grace and truth, or here's the first representation of that. When we see water in ceremonial, jars transformed into spectacularly. 

[00:35:27] Amazing. And then immediately the cleansing of the temple. I don't think those things are unconnected. I think there's a flow. The Jones really making a strong, strong point there. 

[00:35:37] David: And you've got this purification idea going on as well. Haven't you with the purification jars and and even little things that you want to notice in the nuance of the story. Like, like I love the vault. Like these jars are huge, like, like Jesus, they don't have any wine. Well, what about 120 gallons of wine then will that help? 

[00:35:59] And sometimes I wonder if that's just. Again, the creation miracle happening, like when God does it, he does it. And it's, and it's powerful. But, but prior to that, even well, prior to it becoming why notice Jesus, we're talking about this, this arc that John's plotting, that things are that Jesus has changing the trajectory, even little comments like, and they filled them. 

[00:36:22] Jesus has filled this jars with water and they filled the. To the brim. Right. And until then, the Greek seems to almost say until they were up for it, like it's, again, th that, that wouldn't make a lot sense in English, but the whole idea is they're filling them up there. There's movement going on in John's gospel. 

[00:36:41] And in any other gospel, you might think, oh goodness, David, you're stretching a bit there, but with John. Every word seems to be so carefully chosen to drive you towards the conclusions that he's going to make. This is the, this is the third day that this happens in a few verses time. Jesus is going to be standing outside the temple saying destroy it and we'll raise it up on the third days. 

[00:37:06] It's all. Intermeshed isn't it. 

[00:37:08] John: It seems, it seems like it to me. And, again, we're, we're trying to help our listeners understand the genius of these gospel writers. John, by the time he writes his gospel, he is, is really considering hi, Jesus is going to be presented, not just to the Jewish world, but to the burgeoning Gentile the world in which the church is expanding. 

[00:37:30] And he wants them to get this stuff. He wants them to absolutely understand that these ideas are all interconnected. And so, absolutely. I think we have to be careful, we don't want to see things where there aren't things, but I think, I think when you realize the cleverness of these writers, there's probably more cases where there is something there than where they're at. 

[00:37:55] And and I, I do love that and I even love the idea, for me you, you, you sort of leaned into it earlier on David. We're not even sure when the miracle happens, he sort of, he drew it. The implication is he draws out water and then says, oh God, I, you just imagine the servant go and what I'm going to be carrying like a jar of water to the master of the banquet. 

[00:38:19] And he's, he's gone to go bananas at me. And So you're, you're sort of somewhere between drawing that water, right. And that water hitting his. It's transformed. And again, I love the idea of the transformative power of God in the, going in the journey in the progression. It's something is happening as we are journeying here. It isn't just instantaneous and immediate and obvious, but, but something is happening as we're journeying towards this. 

[00:38:53] David: It's almost as if, and this is again, something you see regularly in John's gospel that he thinks you the. I already know the story because, because he doesn't, like you say it, there's no point where the miracle actually actually happens. It just, it just, it happens. It's there and it's not, but then what's also interesting to me, John, is that. 

[00:39:16] The notice verse nine, the master of the banquet tasted the watcher that had turned, had been turned into wine. And and that's it. That's your moment of shock. And he did not realize where it comes. Although the servants who had drawn that were drawn, the watcher knew. Right? So then, then he has this conversation with the braid group. 

[00:39:35] Clearly the master of the banquet assumes you've just been stashing some wine out the back, right. And as best as we see in this story, this is never clarified. Right? Except then by verse 11, it says, this is the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory. And there's almost a question of, well, who did he reveal his glory to? 

[00:39:57] John: It's something that I've reflected on before, if you were wanting to sort of really grab a glory moment, that's the mama Jesus steps where it was his dinner. It was me, it was me, everyone. I'm the winemaker. And it's almost as if Jesus is, is keeping this as low profile or certainly. 

[00:40:19] Drawing his little attention directly to himself as possible, except for those in the know. And I, I'm not sure what's going on there, but, but, but again, leaning back to some of our parable stuff. I, I, I want to lean into this idea that Jesus so supremely confident in the glory that he's revealing that even if it's just revealing. 

[00:40:45] To a handful of servants in the room. It's the beginning of this change. It's the beginning of this thing. He's actually I mean, I can just imagine some of the disabled sort of going, come on, come on. Let's tell everybody what we've done. That's tell everybody what's going on here. Now John will eventually tell a story to the world, but it looks like most people in the wedding faced. 

[00:41:05] Actually, no, it's your man from Nazareth that is rock the water pots and turned this stuff in the first-class wine. So I, I get, Jesus is so secure with this demonstration of glory that even though there's a relatively small group of people getting to see it. just let the glory, let, let my glory just work and move. 

[00:41:28] I, I, I love this about Jesus. I, I love his profound sense of security in the kingdom, in his word and his miracles and what he's about because he's, if that was me and you, that would be on. You know what I mean? That's, that's an Instagram moment right there. Come on. That's have a wifi together. 

[00:41:47] Come on, Instagram moment coming up. And actually Jesus, just, it just, it, it seems to me, Jesus just returns to the wedding and maybe drinks a glass of the wine that he's just transformed. So 

[00:41:57] David: Or potentially even just leaves first 12 after this, he went off to Capernaum. 

[00:42:04] John: Yeah, which, which it, again, incidentally, it's not an easy walk. I mean, that's a serious when I walk from, from Kiana to comparing them, I mean, I suppose you could do it quicker, but that took us three days. So, and it's, it's, it's really difficult to run and it's, it's all down hill, which is good, although there's a lot of undulations, but so, so this is not an easy walk for him, for him and his mother and his friends. 

[00:42:29] So yes, they, they leave and head home to compare them. 

[00:42:33] David: So holding all of the texts together, then. Holding these two stories that the revelation of Jesus Jesus's glory as the creator of, of, of this wine contrasting then with what he's about to then go and do in. 

[00:42:50] In Jerusalem, the way that John tells the story, you're getting a little bit of a key, I think, in terms of how to read John's miracle stories. These are signs. So John 20 verse 30, there are other signs that could have told you, but I told you these ones so that you would trust in Jesus as the Messiah. I think that's what's going on in, which is why Jesus at some level doesn't need the die. 

[00:43:14] It was me moment that, that what we're seeing. At some level is, is an interesting question about a modern day theology of miracles actually. Is that, what is Jesus doing here? Is D Jesus just randomly, you might want to say goodness with all the sick people in the world. Jesus descends. That the miracle is going to do is help. 

[00:43:36] Some people get a bit more drunk potentially, right. That doesn't seem quite right. And that's, if we're assuming that Jesus, his miracle ministry was just Jesus, just doing random miracles. What John really, I think helps us focus in is the, the, the miracles have purpose. And you'll see this when we get to John chapter nine, w w what are we going to do with this man? 

[00:43:58] Who's blind. It's it's about the incoming of, of. Of of God himself with us. Isn't it. It's the, and you see the agent about this revelation of his glory, to the people that Jesus wants to see. It it's really quite powerful. Isn't it? 

[00:44:13] John: It is. And of course this beautiful little statement in verse 11, for me connects back to one of the greatest statements in the prologue. The word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we have seen his glory. So I, I think once you read George. Chapter two verse 11 through the lens of John chapter one, verse 14 and onwards, then actually, this is what John is doing. 

[00:44:44] He's connecting certain ideas specifically to the glory of Jesus. And he wants us to understand that each of these are a revelation of his glory. They're not just random events, but they are connected to the revealing of his glory so that we understand. That, that this man before us is the word, the creator and the sustainer of the universe. 

[00:45:06] And he became flesh among us. And John wants us one source to see the Jesus dancing in the wedding is actually the creator and the sustainer on the sea of your, of the world. So it's a, it's a beautiful connector all the way through. 

[00:45:21] David: I mean, I almost want to, just to, to help you, someone's, with us in their car right now, so probably unsafe to just quickly grab their new Testament and leaf to John chapter one. I know that it's in the car with them, but I don't want them reading it while they're driving, but just, let me pick out some highlights here. 

[00:45:43] We've read and considered. This, this wedding at Canaan and the miracle there, but just, you've made a couple of illusions, John, but, but let me just to string a few more of them. So verse three, you've said already. Okay. So, well, let's be in the beginning was the word. So this, this, this creation, the word was with God and the word was God, all things that came into being through him. 

[00:46:04] So without him, not one thing came into being, what has come into being in him was life. And the life was the light of all. And the light shines in the darkness. So you've got this sense that you could even see this happening in our story. Like, well, what, what, what actually is going on here? Where did this wine come from? 

[00:46:23] What's Jesus going to do? We don't know what he's going to do, but the light is going to shine, look at verse nine, the true light, which enlightens everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world. The world came into being through him yet. The world did not know him. Like once again, overlay that over there. 

[00:46:40] Here's some wine. Okay. How did this wine come? It came through Jesus. Does anybody know that? Right. So there's you see what I'm doing? And this is 

[00:46:49] just, but he came to his own people. They didn't always accept him, but whoever received him and believed in his name, he gave pirates, become the children of God, and then you've got the verse 14, it became flesh lived amongst us and we have seen his glory. So you, what I'm hoping just as that slurry through, I've just a couple of verses there is to see how often you can overlay that prologue onto the miracle and say, oh, okay. That's again, happening in this little microcosm. 

[00:47:16] It there's a bit of confusion around Jesus. There's a lack of clarity around Jesus, but the people that want to see or, or commit to seeing can see that this is creator, God become flesh and dwelling amongst us. 

[00:47:29] John: Beautiful. 

[00:47:32] Okay. So that's it for the first episode this week, our second texts for this week really seize on Thursday. If you want to get in touch with either office about something we said, you can reach out to us on podcast@twotechs.com. Or by liking and following the two techs podcast on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube.  

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[00:48:15] But that is it for this episode. We're back on Thursday. So until then, , Goodbye 

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