In which John and David dive into the narrative of John chapter 9 and the man born blind. As the miraculous 'signs' of John's gospel develop we're seeing more and more of what John is trying to tell us about Jesus. This story is one of the greats of this fourth gospel. Enjoy.
Episode Outline
Episode 34 of the Two Texts Podcast | Meaning of Miracles Series 17
If you want to get in touch about something in the podcast you can reach out on podcast@twotexts.com or by liking and following the Two Texts podcast on Facebook, Instagramand Twitter. We're also on YouTube. If you enjoy the podcast, we’d love it if you left a review or comment where you’re listening from – and if you really enjoyed it, why not share it with a friend?
Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021
In which John and David dive into the narrative of John chapter 9 and the man born blind. As the miraculous 'signs' of John's gospel develop we're seeing more and more of what John is trying to tell us about Jesus. This story is one of the greats of this fourth gospel. Enjoy.
Episode Outline
Episode 34 of the Two Texts Podcast | Meaning of Miracles Series 17
If you want to get in touch about something in the podcast you can reach out on podcast@twotexts.com or by liking and following the Two Texts podcast on Facebook, Instagramand Twitter. We're also on YouTube. If you enjoy the podcast, we’d love it if you left a review or comment where you’re listening from – and if you really enjoyed it, why not share it with a friend?
Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021
Transcript is Auto-Generated by Descript.com
[00:00:00] Hi there. I'm at David Harvey and I'm here with John Andrews and this is the two texts podcast. In this podcast, we're two friends in two different countries. I hear every two weeks talking about two different texts from the Bible. This is our second season. It's about the miracles of Jesus. This is episode 17.
[00:00:30] And it's called. John. Chapter nine. Part one.
[00:00:36] David: Well, John, we are into chapter nine of John's gospel. So let's track what John's doing here. He's working through these signs and we've, we've looked at them turning water into wine healing, people by a pool he's healing. And then there was a couple of signs of walking on water at the feeding of the 5,000, which we've talked about earlier in this series.
[00:01:01] So we, jumped over them, but these signs are really driving through right up until about chapter 11 of his gospel. Aren't they? And we are now at chapter nine, which is a story that you and I are both very excited to talk about. I think that's fair to say, isn't it.
[00:01:19] John: Yeah, very, it's a cracking story. Absolutely.
[00:01:23] David: and I mean, this story is good. Everything, humor, irony. There's a healing in it. There's tension. There's an argument. There's there's there's everything's in this story, isn't it?
[00:01:33] John: very good. It is. It's a lot going on. It's a lot going on. Absolutely.
[00:01:37] David: It's such a good story that we're going to take the next two episodes to to kind of talk through this aren't we, so it's today and in two days time, we'll be, we'll be finishing out this chapter.
[00:01:47] John: So I'll kick off verse one of chapter nine and it says this as he that's, Jesus went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him rabbi who sinned this man or his parents that he was born blind. Neither this man, nor his parents sinned, Jesus said, but this happened so that the works of God may be displayed in him. As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me night is coming when no one can work while I am in the world, I am the light of the. After saying this, he spit on. I have to say, I love, I love, I love the change of gear. I am the light of the world. After saying this, he spit on, I can hardly read that without laughing.
[00:02:43] I don't know if John meant that to be humorous, but it just feels humorous to me. Anyway. Let's try and get
[00:02:48] David: It's not how you'd expect. It's not how you'd expect the next sentence to go.
[00:02:52] John: No, it's not how you expect the light of the world to be here. Okay. Right. After saying this, his spit on the Crow and made some mud with the saliva And put it on the man's eyes go. He told him why she in the Pearl of Salaam, what this word means sent. so the man went and washed and came home, seeing his neighbors, and those who had formerly seen him begging asked isn't this, the CMR who used to sit in.
[00:03:22] Some claimed that he was other said, no, he only looks like him, but he himself insisted, insisted I am the man high. Then where your eyes open? They asked, he replied the man, they call Jesus, made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Salaam and wash. So I went unwashed and then I could see her.
[00:03:44] Where is this month? They asked them, I don't know. He said.
[00:03:49] David: And so let me pick up from verse 13, it says this, they brought to the Pharisees, the man who had been blind now, the day in which Jesus had made the mud and open demand, a man's eyes was you can probably guess was the Sabbath. Therefore, the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. Oh, he put mud on my eyes, the man replied and I washed and now.
[00:04:14] Some of the Pharisees said Liz Mann is not from God free does not keep the Sabbath, but others asked how can a sinner perform such signs. So they were divided. Then they turned again to the blind man. What have you to say about him? It was your eyes. He opened the man replied. Well, he is. They still did not believe that he had been blind and had received this site until they sent for the man's parents.
[00:04:42] Is this your son, they asked, is this the one you say was born blind? How is it that now he can see, this is one of my all-time favorite bits of biblical response. So I'm laughing. W w verse 20, we know he is our son, the parents answered, and we know he was born blind, but how he can see now or who opened his eyes, we don't know, ask him.
[00:05:10] He is a vague. He will speak for himself. His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders who had already decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. And this is why his parents said he is of age. Ask him as second time. They summoned the man who had been blind, give glory to God by telling the truth.
[00:05:34] They said, we know this man is. He replied, whether he is a sinner or not. I don't know. One thing I do know I was blind, but now I see
[00:05:46] John: I see
[00:05:47] David: then they asked him, well, what did he do to you? How did he open your eyes? He answered. Oh, I have told you already. And you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again?
[00:05:57] Do you want to become his disciples too? So they then hurled, insults at him and said, you are this fellow's disciple. We are disciples of Moses. We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don't even know where he comes from. The man. Well, no, that is remarkable. You don't know where he comes from yet.
[00:06:20] He opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing to this. They replied, you were steeped in sin at birth. How dare you lecture us?
[00:06:41] And they threw him out.
[00:06:46] John: Isn't that incredible.
[00:06:46] David: Just some brilliant, brilliant literature right there
[00:06:50] John: Well, I'm, I'm sure that John's John's pencil or pan or whatever he was scraping on was wobbling a boat with some of that with, with the sense of, of, of humor in them. I mean, it's, it's incredibly serious. We absolutely understand we're not minimizing this tax, but it is also list with humor and, and.
[00:07:13] There is, there is a gorgeous, I'm trying to try to work at the tone of the man who gets healed here. There is this sort of audacity in him. There's a boldness in him that he just speaks up. And he's, he does talk like a disciple of Jesus. Of course. So then this stage in our story, he's not, but he's just, it's just calling it as it is.
[00:07:34] It's like he, okay. Let, let me tell you what happened. Okay. Let me tell you again what happened. Okay. Let me explain how it up. And it's an ender is an audacity in his response and is just totally refreshing. And I think it's that audacity that it seems to. Because the religious community to get well, get extremely defensive around him and ultimately get a bit abusive And insulting towards them.
[00:08:00] But it's, I love it. I, I can't help, but read this and not smile. And then when you hear someone else read a leg, like you read in there, I was literally giggling as I'm going through the story because I just think it's so cool.
[00:08:13] David: And I think it's important to, to spot the writers are doing this in a biblical texts. Sometimes, sometimes we only ever read biblical texts as if they're all deeply serious. And of course they are deeply true and the subject matter is very serious. But, but the humor of this I think is definitely in John's agenda because he wants you to.
[00:08:40] He wants you to see the ridiculousness of the interchange. Th th this the man's point is right, but I can see, so why, why are we questioning whether this man's a good man or not? Because, because I was blind and now I'm not blind. So something profound has happened here. And so, so for me, that's, that's a really, it's a really interesting.
[00:09:04] Sort of process. That's going through that, that now. And we're going to see this more by the time we get to the next episode, but there's even a play going on by John at this point around well, who actually can see and who can't see in this, in this particular, in this particular story. But, yeah, there's just, there's so much sort of crammed into this, into this text that is just leaning into John's agenda.
[00:09:32] Even you noticed that resurfacing there, this question, where is Jesus from? And of course, John told you that the prologue he's from God, the moment you have this privileged information, that Jesus is from God, the whole way you read the story. We're going to argue if he's a sinner, we're going to argue where he's from.
[00:09:52] Well, you, the reader know from the very beginning he was from God, even, even this illusion too, they say to the man, give glory to God and acknowledge the truth. Well, what did we have right back? We beheld his glory, he brought truth to us. It's it's, it's all mashing beautifully. Isn't it, John?
[00:10:11] John: It is absolutely stunningly. And again, I, I think this, this is probably one of the most powerful for me linked stories. I think if, if you're looking at, I know we're looking at all the signs and they will link in dramatic wares, but, but once you see the bread crumbs, Around here from this, this prologue idea.
[00:10:34] It's really hard to miss them in John chapter name, there they're everywhere for us. And it's, I think it's a very powerful link story. We've just come out of John chapter eight. I don't know. There's a bit of controversy around the beginning of Johnny with, the inclusion of the woman caught in the act of adultery, but of course it launches from there straight into, I am the light of the world and we get this incredible declaration of Jesus and John.
[00:10:55] It that he's the light of the world. One of the. I am statements. And then of course, out of the story and almost seamlessly out of chapter nine of John, he launches into this discourse where he describes himself as the good shepherd as the gate for this. So there's something really linked. It feels like a very strong link story.
[00:11:17] It's not just one of the great sayings for me. It feels like it's pulling a lot of big stories together and linking them through. And it feels like I, I know in our Bible, John nine follows Johnny And proceeds John 10, but it does feel like the glued, it feels like there's a real. Sense of connectedness with the big ideas that we're now on earth in, in this beautiful, funny, tragic, humorous story of the man who was born blind.
[00:11:46] So it really is magnificent story.
[00:11:47] David: even a subtle shift perhaps where John's format has been one where there's miracle and then discourse about the miracle. So here's the miracle. Let me know, unpack that a little bit for you. Whereas when you, when you do what you've just done there, John eight seems to be the discourse and now John nine.
[00:12:09] Is the sort of miracle, the unpacks, the discourse, Jesus says, I am the light of the world. And then he meets a man in darkness, perhaps. And he repeats the language of light of the world. And then there's a question by the end of chapter nine, which we'll deal with this week in due course. But the question then at the end of chapter nine, being well who's in darkness and how do they find the light?
[00:12:30] So the whole thing is meshing together really. Quite powerfully, isn't it. And if you stretch even further back to the end of chapter seven, the question about Jesus he's provenance, is there again? Where is he from? Right. And of course there's something really interesting happens. Chapter seven, wherein the religious leaders raise this complaint against Jesus.
[00:12:55] They say he, he cannot be the Messiah. In fact, he can't even be a prophet. They say because no prophet ever came from Galilee. And the irony is. The religious leaders accused the people for being misguided. They say, essentially, you, you, you kind of slow people. You don't even know the scriptures. A prophet cannot come from Galilee, which of course is again brilliant Johanna and irony because he assumes, I think that you, the reader knows this because he assumes that you've done your old Testament homework, but of course, Jonah, he is from Galilee, right?
[00:13:30] So there's this deep irony. That John's pushing that these religious leaders have even got themselves a little bit detached from scripture and therefore perhaps are not as trustworthy on these matters as you might think.
[00:13:46] John: And, I think too, there is a little hint. I think this comes across in John nine as well.
[00:13:51] David: Hm.
[00:13:52] John: think once you start to get desperately defensive
[00:13:57] David: Mm.
[00:13:58] John: a position, or you become threatened or you feel. Insecure on that position. I think that's when you tend to come out swinging, and when you come out swinging, you tend to make mistakes.
[00:14:12] So, you see it even here. And in the John named story that actually the man who is born blamed is starting to sort of get the opera hand and the theological conversation. He's actually, I mean that little mini discourse where he explains the fact that, well, don't, we know. That God doesn't hear the prayer of a center and a man couldn't do this unless he was a good man.
[00:14:39] And he's actually putting this together. He's weirdly and wonderfully using their own theological premise to push back on them ideas that they would. And of course, how do they respond? They respond by insulting. They go back to his original state, which was what you were born blind up means. You're your dirty filthy center.
[00:15:00] You were steeped in sin. I mean, that's a really nasty barbed criticism, isn't it? And it's an undated. If you hear the echo of the disciples saying w w who sinned this man or his parents that he was born blind that is echoed in the religious leaders, who said you were steeped in Senate. And, I think they're, they're throwing a terrible insult at him because their own position has been threatened. and John, she seems to show this, it feels to me like more than the gospel writers were at a theological level. Jesus is absolutely getting under this. And I think he's rattling the cage of their world much more. And so you're getting these sort of aggressive, sometimes nasty, sometimes even mistaken responses.
[00:15:46] To the situation that we're in. So there's a we pattern developing there. I think you see it in John seven. I think it's also there in John nine, if you want it to really push John yet. And the woman caught in the act of adultery, I think Jesus ops solutely bamboozles them before. According to Moses, she dies and jet without an any way, pushing back against Moses.
[00:16:10] He manages to, to actually create an escape for the woman by, by exercising, grips to her. So there's a whole, there's a sense in which this man is really getting onto their skin. He's rattling their cage. He's disturbing their world, and they don't seem to be able to get sort of their hand off. Leverage on his theology around their scent.
[00:16:34] And it seems like the man who's nervous saved the site sort of makes it worse. He, he almost becomes a voice for Jesus himself in this context, which irritates them further.
[00:16:47] David: And, and think about the, like the patterns that John's creating then for us, I, I sometimes think about John.
[00:16:55] John: Dawn.
[00:16:56] David: As if he's almost setting up this whole gospel is a piece of pantomime. You remember those, those stage shows, we used to go and see his children that were very, very slapstick weren't they? And or, or even some of the old silent movies where when the, when the bad guys came onto the scene, the music changed.
[00:17:17] So even with. And like I remember at pantomime when we were kids, when the, when the, the kind of the, the, the bad guy came onto the scene, he would quite constantly in the pantomime theater say things, but even as a little kid, you knew, oh, you don't trust anything. Because it won't be true. So he would come on and tell you what he was doing.
[00:17:40] And sometimes as kids, you would shout out, no, you don't, that's not true because somehow the nature of the way the story was told you knew all that this character isn't trustworthy. So, so now think about what Johns and I don't like to use the term bad guys of the Pharisees. That's definitely, but the religious leaders are set up by John as untrustworthy and you really see that polarized here.
[00:18:05] And I think what John's doing for us is this constant play of aligning with Jesus light of the. We'll be we'll be a way of truth for you and aligning yourself against the light of the world will always lead you into untruth. And so now you have this and you see this and bear my, this is the language of light of the world that's being expressed here.
[00:18:27] Isn't it? That w w w who sinned and Jesus says, no one, right? This is not what this is about, but then later as you've pointed out, unsurprising, The Pharisees are still held onto this idea that this man's situation is a result of sin. Even though for you, the reader, this has been decisively ruled out at the start of the story.
[00:18:51] This is, this is not about this. So you're seeing this continuing. Invert and chapter seven, the Pharisees say, well, these people don't know the law. They don't know the scriptures, but again, following Jesus will, will give you an illumination of understanding from the scriptures that might even surpass that of the, of, of the religious elites.
[00:19:11] It's it's really, it's really interesting storytelling. If we let it do its job, isn't it, John.
[00:19:17] John: It is. It is. And it's, it's a very helpful way to understand. The John is positioning that as the conversation of, of grace and truth proceeding in the ministry of Jesus throughout this gospel. And, and not as an attack on one particular group or one particular idea, but simply setting up here's what the light looks like.
[00:19:40] Here's what the truth looks. And our four, it exposes us light, always does it exposes darkness, untruth all was exposes error and that's what's happening here. And, and it, it is unfortunate turn on liquor because it looks like John's been sort of aggressively anti-Jewish, which of course, John was, John was died in the world.
[00:20:07] Good Jewish man. It's not in any way being anti-Jewish in the sort of anti-sematic sense, but he's setting up truth and delight as the standard in Jesus and therefore creating the contrast away from that and the contrast and John's gospel almost invariably falls to the religious community who themselves see themselves more and more trials. By their own inability to grasp. I mean, the fact that our story here, the parents are afraid to speak because there's clearly, already some sort of injunction. And the injunction is anyone who acknowledged Jesus as the Christ going to be put in to listen to God. Now, the fact that John includes that means it's already out there.
[00:20:54] So, so Jesus has made such an impact in Jerusalem through the Johanna and text that that actually there's this. Okay. Wanted poster if you like on the wall that saying anyone who identifies with Jesus as the Christ is okay. And of course we get that sense. Don't we, at the end of our story, it feels like the man has been put out doesn't it?
[00:21:19] I, and that's how that, that's how, I mean, our story doesn't end where you finish reading, but, but it finished it finished with this on, they put them out. So he himself gets put out, even though he is a bonafide miraculous, we might want to argue messianic sane of a man born blind, having his eyes opened and his own words said who's ever seen anything like this happen before.
[00:21:45] I mean, there's no record of a mom born blind being healed and not even in the biblical text and he's going. Have a look at this and our only response to that is to put him out. So, so, so you can see that there is this explosive confrontation building in the gospel of John. And it feels, it feels much more intense to me.
[00:22:09] And please forgive me. You, you, you correct me if I'm reading that right. It feels much more intense than the Johanna and tax and it doesn't even in the other gospels and it can be pretty edgy in the other gospel.
[00:22:20] David: well, because I think what John is doing is weaving in layer upon layer of story. And so this sort of stuff is being set up for, for quite a lot of these, these conflicts aren't incidental in, in, in John. They're part of the way he's telling the narrative. And even the, the trajectories of the narrative now think about, think about Nicodemus in John's gospel.
[00:22:47] What do we know about Nicodemus? He comes to Jesus pop quiz. When does he come to Jesus? He comes at night, right? So sure Nicodemus comes in the dark. To the light of the world. Okay. So think about that. That, so Nicodemus now becomes an archetype of what we should all be like, come from dark conditions.
[00:23:08] To the light of the world. So nicotine has comes from the religious elite. So, so there is there, isn't a strong NT religious elite narrative, the way it sometimes get read, because Nicodemus the one kind of, Hey, look at him. He's the one you should be following his model. He is actually from that group.
[00:23:26] So he comes as a follower of Jesus and he comes from darkness to the. Now what's interesting is if you read, you hold that in mind and you get to chapter 13 and Jesus is having this final meal with the disciples. And it, it becomes apparent in the meal that somebody has betrayed him. And Jesus, of course, w we know that Judas they have this story about this, but then notice this, this final comment that That Jesus says, did you just what you were about to do, do it quickly, and then nobody else at the meal understands why Jesus is saying that.
[00:23:58] And then this verse 30 of John chapter 13, as soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out and then he just drops in this lane and it was. Okay. So now look at this trajectory, right? You've now got this trajectory of Nicodemus coming from darkness to the light of the world. You've got Judas going from the lights of the world away.
[00:24:19] And guess what? It's night, it's the complete inverse trajectory. And one of my favorite little pieces of John, and this is like, Not everybody would agree with me on this, but I think this is the level you have to pay attention that John's going to nuance things. Jesus then goes out to a garden in John chapter 18 and all the way through there in this garden.
[00:24:41] And actually, if you think about it, you knew it's probably still nighttime because it's the same evening that Judas went out and it was nighttime, but nothing is mentioned. And then in John chapter 18 and verse three Judas reappears in this story, and it says he brought soldiers. Together with the kind of police from the chief priests and the Pharisees, and they came and what did they bring with them?
[00:25:03] Lanterns, torches, and weapons, but he mentioned two different sources of light that they made them. And at which point, I think the really observant reader notices. At no point has John mentioned that Jesus and his disciples have anything with which to see in the dark. Now, I think that John is doing that purposefully because there, with the light of the world.
[00:25:26] So when the, when this other group come, they even need things to see with. And it's all part of this. And I think if you grasp that, you realize, whoa, this gospel is a. Art of layering together. Feel logical difference the journey towards truth, the journey towards light, and actually eventually this journey either towards or away from the light starts to change even how we perceive the kind of physical world that we're living in.
[00:25:58] I think it's stunning work
[00:26:00] John: Oh, phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal. And I do, I do love when the disciples say to Jesus who sinned and Jesus says, well, nobody has sent here. And he says, this has happened so that the works of God might be manifest, maybe seeing, maybe observed. And of course I can't help to pick up your little.
[00:26:24] Connections or David, I can't help, but fail the creational motif. That actually the first thing created in the creative order spoken by God is light. Let there be light. And then out of the lake, because of the light, we are able to see the manifest. Works of God we're able to then, or we can see the creation.
[00:26:49] We can see the animals we can see. So everything that happens after the light gets made is possible because the light has made it possible. The light is the, where is the thing that makes the way for all these amazing creative works to be done. And so out of light comes all the glory of the creative order of those first magnificent six stairs of, of Genesis creation.
[00:27:18] I can't help, but feel that as well here, David. It feels like even, even the fact that Jesus spits on the ground mix mud I'm, I'm, I'm feeling Genesis all over that. That the man made out of the, out of the dust of the ground and the life of God coming into him. And it's like, even as Jesus applies the mod.
[00:27:38] To demand's eyes. This is a manifestation of his glory in this sort of creative motif, but it's, it's all coming out of the light. He is the light. He he's the one in him was life. And that life was the light of man. John says in the prologue, isn't it? The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
[00:28:01] And let's direct that go verse five and our story why I am in the world. I am the light of the world. So, so, so, and, and that statement of I am the light of the world, precedes them. So it's like, it's like the light is, is the link here right through it. So, your, your beautiful nuance And, and how that light is seen in contrast to the darkness all the way through.
[00:28:25] And of course here, we're seeing literally in our story, the darkness of the Mon. Being dispelled by the light of the world and literally the, creation of sate through this. And, and when you run all of that together, you go, wow. That is, they are stunning links all the way through the gospel of John and on a beautiful little climactic moment in John nine here.
[00:28:51] David: And, and of course these I am sayings and, and you may have both talked about how we, we need to circle back to the, I am seeings in John's gospel and, and spend a bit of a bit of time in another series talking about them. But, but I think I just want to mention, we've got the, I am seeing in chapter eight.
[00:29:08] I, I, I am the light of the world. I kind of highlight comment would be to remember the statements in John's gospel are I think anyway, are Jesus saying I am as opposed to anything else being so, so when Jesus says I am the light of the world, he's essentially saying I'm the light of the world and therefore other things which you believe to be light.
[00:29:33] John: like.
[00:29:34] David: Are perhaps not the light of the world that you think I am the bread of life. Other things that you're not now what's and you have to tread carefully this, so that you're not accused of saying what you're not intending to say. But most of these things that Jesus says about himself, I am are things which are held to be true of Torah are things which are held to be true of the law.
[00:29:55] So this one's really interesting because I am the light of the world. Sounds like a sort of contrast to the language we encounter in Psalm 119, for example, the famous verse that lot of people would probably know some 119 verse, 105. Your word is a lamp unto my feet and a light to my path. Now, now think about it.
[00:30:20] If this is what John's doing, which I I'm of the opinion that he is, that Jesus is now the, the, the, the answer to all of these questions that we had, who is, who is the light to our path. Well, notice what the Psalm says, your word. If you were reading the Psalms in Greek, it's the same word, this Lagos word, your word.
[00:30:42] Is the light to my path. Your word is the lamp to my feet. Well, who is this word? Well, John's now come along right at the very start and said, oh, that's Jesus. Right? So there's a real sense of the ratcheting up of the pressure throughout this as to, as to what is. The right light of the world. And so, so I think there's some really interesting things to sort of engage with, but here Jesus coming in and bringing this true light, that was the, that was talked about.
[00:31:12] That allows everyone to see. And, and then the sense of what they do see is how God works, which I feel like you're now, I mean, you're knitting together a really tight little piece between John chapter nine, verse one and five, because if Jesus is the light of the world, if he, if he is the true word that brings light to our path, then this in fact is the answer to the question.
[00:31:35] Well, who sins will lead to this? This whole story is not about sin. It's about revealing God and how God notice it. It happens to the works of God might be displayed. So there's almost a sense that these first five verses are showing us, this is how God works. I mean, that's a lot, John, but I mean, is that, is that tracking for us?
[00:31:55] John: It certainly tracks for me, it works for me. I, I, I do think that, we, we get consumed with the sort of the, the mechanics question who send, and of course, th th there is a legitimacy around exploring why the disciples would think like that and the sort of theological trajectory that produced a worldview that said, if you're doing.
[00:32:18] You get blessed under a few sin, you get judged and under is, there is sort of movement around that. But of course that's not what Jesus is wanting to get into. He's not, he's not arguing for, or against that. He's saying actually this is the opportunity into. The light of the world can come. This is the opportunity into which God can manifest his works among us and into the brokenness.
[00:32:45] So, so for Jesus, the preoccupation is not around. Whose fault it is, but in, in bringing the manifestation of the glory of God and the solution to the situation that we're in, which of course is that complete redemptive idea. That the Lord wants on has all, was being willing to step in to the brokenness of our world and bring that redemption restoration, healing, and wholeness that only he can bring to our world whether that be a created world or whether that be even a human in this context.
[00:33:21] So I do think there's in those first few verses of our story. I think there's, it's almost like. So, I mean, it's almost like a little mini prologue to the story. It's, it's like, it's like, it's an explanation of what you're about to see. And it's a powerful layup. It's a powerful setup to understanding the power of the saying we are about.
[00:33:47] And, and if our, our, our listeners can, can lean back into that, that, that this is one of the sayings. So, so what is the same, what, what is going on here, that it, and what is being saying to, and, and how are we grasping that? And I think that those first five verses are really crucial to getting that in this, in the story.
[00:34:07] David: and I'm not sure we do grasp it. If I was being. Maybe too pointed for a podcast, John, but this question that the disciples ask, like, I think we still ask that question to this day, despite knowing this story. So, I mean, perhaps you could unpack this a little more if, if, if you wanted to, the seems the disciples are asking a question rooted in what we'd call Dutra nominal.
[00:34:37] The good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people. That seems to be the impression you get from. If you were just to read Deuteronomy, you would get the sense that that's how it works. Good things happen to good people, bad things happen to bad people. Now, if you read the whole old tests,
[00:34:52] John: Testament.
[00:34:53] David: It challenges that notion entirely, you get to, you get to the Proverbs and it's, I remember somebody, somebody saying once that you get to the Proverbs and the Proverbs tries to lean into that thought as well, this Dutra anomic principle do good things.
[00:35:07] Bye guys. Good things happen to you, and then you get books like Ecclesiastes. These are Ecclesiastes. He seems to sort of pick at that a little bit and go, well, may be, life's not always quite as simple as we thought it was. And then you get the story of job where it's like, here is a decidedly.
[00:35:24] Good. For whom a whole host of bad stuff happens. So, so the, in my view, the old Testament has raised big questions about this way of thinking. And then Jesus really raises these weigh these questions. And I think because of his rootedness in grace, so what are the works of God that are displayed? Well, one of the things that's being displayed here is that God doesn't work.
[00:35:46] Philosophers, call it dessert. God doesn't give people what they quote unquote deserve. But, so this question seems unfamiliar to us who sinned this man or his parents that he was born blind. But if we were to reword this question and ask, like the question about blame who's to blame in this situation, I feel like we still struggle with that problem to this day that we try and live out, you see, you see a homeless person on the street.
[00:36:17] And I know often when I talk to people, there's this kind of narrative in our world, which says, well, what did they do to end up there? Right. Which is actually a very, if you've ever seen somebody quote unquote down on their luck and wondered, well, I wonder what they did to end up there. It's the same question that the disciples asked Jesus here.
[00:36:40] Isn't, isn't it.
[00:36:42] John: Oh, and it's, it's brutal. It's overly simplistic and of course it makes you feel good if life's good. So, I mean, that's the, that's the killer, isn't it? The people who tend to ask that question tend to be people who are on the better side of that equation. And so, life rocking for me.
[00:37:02] It's great. And therefore, I, I could look at someone less fortunate myself and NASCO wonder what they did to deserve that. And I sometimes describe this as a sort of a Juul, but ology theology, it's you, you, you read the book of job. It people speak, you've got God speaking.
[00:37:20] The adversary speaks, job speaks, his wave speaks and his four friends speak. And the only person you can really trust in the whole of that narrative speaking as the Lord, every other voice at very least, you've got to read carefully. And some of the statements of job's friends are shocking. If we build our theological hosts on some of the things they said, I mean, we would be.
[00:37:42] Could catastrophic disaster. I was just reflecting on this. Ellie fast, it's one of his first, one of the first statements of job's friends to job is from Ellie fast. And he says, these words consider Nye who been innocent, has ever perished what a question he says, where were the operate ever destroyed? As I have observed, he says those who play evil and those who saw. Reap it at the breath of God, they perish at the blast of his anger. They are no more, no. When you're sitting, when you're sitting in a five-star hotel and life's good then actually, that, that theology really is quite attractive. When you're sitting on the dung heap, scrip and the POS out of, out of your boils, having had everything taken from you, this is, this is a. And of course we know the backstory that you open that job doesn't deserve any of this in, in the, in the sort of righteous on raters sense. It's funny, David, I was reading a spot on my daily devotions in Luke's gospel. Dr. Luke does a beautiful thing for Zachariah and Elizabeth. He describes Zachariah and Elizabeth.
[00:38:55] He describes our. That they're both. He's from the priesty lane. She's from the line of Aaron. He describes them both as are operate. People are, when it comes to the law, he describes them as blameless and gender goes on to say, but Elizabeth was bad. there's a beautiful thing, right? At the end of, of Luke's gospel.
[00:39:20] When it talks about Elizabeth getting pregnant, here's what you says. These are the words of Elizabeth. Now. Now, remember this is true record. Not necessarily truth as, as God would teach it, but here's, here's Elizabeth version of the truth. She says the Lord has taken away. My discrete. So note that here here's a beautiful woman, loves the Lord living upright and yet, because she's barren, she's viewed as, as disgraced.
[00:39:49] So, so I think that theology was, was absolutely prevalent in the world of Jesus. I think the gospel writers worked very, very hard to push back on that theology. I think they're trying to qualify an understanding of that. And of course, If you are approaching all of that with Greece, then, then actually there's no room for that sort of self-righteousness and smugness, which allows me to say, well, I'm not blind.
[00:40:17] Therefore
[00:40:18] David: Yes.
[00:40:19] John: he's blind. Therefore, well, I'm not homeless. Therefore he's homeless. Therefore, on these sorts of simplistic, superficial reactionary positions are not only deeply destructive for the individuals who hear them, but I think they are, they are deeply subversive because they lead us away from the grace of God and ultimately to use your analogy of darkness and light.
[00:40:44] I think these ideas leaders more to the darkness than to the light.
[00:40:48] David: and, and as you said, these theologies were very prevalent in the time of Jesus, but I just believe they're also prevalent for. Today, you only need to spend five minutes on Instagram and the language or in, mean, head into a self-help section of a bookstore or an online website, it's like, here's the five laws of the seven steps or the 10 rules that if you do these things and that earning do language comes in there.
[00:41:12] And I think these ideas have to wrestle know what was it? Jesus said, blessed are the. Right. Blessed are the persecuted. So somehow our w our view of how the world works as followers of Jesus needs to make sense of blessed are the poor sky Skye Jethani in his in his in one of his little books, he says Jesus obliterates our wicked tendency to judge others.
[00:41:39] By their circumstances. And, and I think that's what we've got going on here. Well, who sinned what Jesus says? Well, what if it was no one? Right? What if it was no one? And, and so, so that, so there's, there's some real deep work happening even for us today in John chapter nine you thought you signed in just to listen to a healing of a man who was blind and all of a sudden you realize, wait a minute, this is talking to me in the 21st.
[00:42:05] John: absolutely. And it must challenge our hearts that the focus is. I suppose, can I say, and my response is the focus is not on, is not on the cause, but the focus is on the redemptive offer. But, ultimately it's, even when Jesus speaks to the man, there's no conversation about his past.
[00:42:27] There's no conversation about anything that may have brought them to this position. It just brings a solution to the. Circumstance. And that's the essence of the gospel in Jesus Christ. Jesus is not obsessed with what brought you to this place. He is obsessed with getting, getting the redemptive answer to you that will release you from the position that you are in and brain literally.
[00:42:56] Metaphorically late into your darkness and, and bring deliverance. And I think, and, and our darkest moments of religion, David, I think we're a bit too obsessed on, cause we're a bit too obsessed on the story. We're a bit too obsessed on how you came to be where you are. And, and I know there's validity in those conversations in the right place, but actually it's sort of.
[00:43:18] John nine seems to say, it's sort of docent matter how you got here. What matters is the light is here. The light is here and the light can bring life into your brokenness, into your darkness and into your death. And that's, that's really the driving force of this Beautiful.
[00:43:36] sign. It seems to me.
[00:43:38] David: Yeah, it's, it's, it's quite something, isn't it. And, and so then you get this little, this little moment of Jesus making some mud, we've seen Jesus do this sort of thing before in the gospels haven't we? And, but he sends the man. To this hill, just outside the kind of Southeast side of Jerusalem and says, go and wash in this particular pool.
[00:44:00] And there's some, there's some depth to even the location of, of, of sending the man here. Isn't there.
[00:44:07] John: Yeah, I, and of course there.
[00:44:09] is a significance to this, this pool. I mean, obviously I think what's really striking is the teases. And again, there's a better, I don't know if it's humor, but certainly there was a little bit of, oh, that's interesting. I don't know how you described this, but Jesus sending a blind man, some word to wash.
[00:44:28] So Jesus clearly has a confidence in this man that he knows how his way to find his way Rhonda's city and get to where he needs to go. But what some of our listeners may be aware of of course, is that, that that pool is the cm pool that alleviate would be sent to on the last day of the feast of Tabernacles sent with this golden pitcher.
[00:44:51] To gather these waters. And of course, Jesus, Jesus has already alluded to this in John seven, where he stands up and said, if anyone's thirsty on the last grid there, the, of the, of the feast, if you're thirsty, come to me and, and drink. So we've, we've already seen it. Johanna, in connection to this Pearl in John chapter seven, where Jesus has described himself as the one who can satisfy the thirst of humans.
[00:45:17] And here he is sending Jesus, sending this man to the cm pool, to, to wash in order to have his not just his thirst quenched, but his eyes opened. So there is a beautiful little connection there. I don't know if you saw anything else in that, David.
[00:45:35] David: I mean the whole, this pool of Siloam or, or Shiloh as it, as it sort of seems in the Hebrew, it's a very interesting little piece. And even the language that there's a reference in the Hebrew to up. In in Genesis chapter 49, which there's some people that seem to think it has messianic resonancies to it.
[00:45:58] So Jesus sending him to a place which has a subtle messianic name. I John's kind of interest in here because he offers this translation that the word means sense. And, and that to me is really interesting because, because of the. The Greek word is translated. Apostello where we get the word apostle from.
[00:46:19] And so I think it's really interesting. That this man is, is, is given, is G I can't help it. W when John ever gives you a word in it's Hebrew original, or it's he always often then offers a translation and there's often significance to him saying, I want you to pay attention to this. So if I pay attention to it, it's really interesting.
[00:46:41] This man is almost given some sort of. The Alec commission. And then the next time we see this man, he appears to have done a lot of theological reflection on his walk. He went to one side of the city and back because cause he comes back, he still doesn't know who Jesus is, because they ask him don't they?
[00:47:02] They say to him, well, well, well, who is he? And he's well, where is he? And he said, well, I don't know. All right. But, but he's able. To put two pieces together. And as a result, he becomes a defender of Jesus. He becomes someone who is witnessing to this Messiah. So, so by the end, he almost appears if I could say he almost appears like an apostle, right?
[00:47:28] John: certainly. I mean, he certainly provoke only evangelistic, isn't it? I mean, without, without given the, the end of our story away, which we'll lean into next episode, he, he clearly defends. Jesus in the most powerful way. And the clarity of his defense, the confidence of that defense is really I find this, I find his language stunning where he, he defends Jesus in, in just the most remarkable way.
[00:47:59] I'm just, I'm just literally trying to find a little past situated because it's so beautiful. Let me just remainder. Our listeners of this. And he says they sort of hurled insults at him and said, we are disciples of Moses. And again, that contrast and the prologue the law comes from Moses, grace and truth through Jesus Christ.
[00:48:22] And, we, we don't even know where this man comes from. And, and his answer is just simply remarkable. He says, no, that is remarkable. He says, you don't know where he comes from yet. He opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to a gaudy person who does his, well, nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a mom born blind.
[00:48:41] If this man were not from. He could do nothing. No, I, mean, it hasn't quite connected. The dots that Jesus is 100% Messiah. Cause he's, he's framed him in terms of profit here on a good man. And it's, it's that clincher conversation at the end of the story that seems to pull us. Right. But, but you know, this incredible statement, if you were not from God, he could not do these things.
[00:49:09] So there's a confidence as an evangelist that passion. And this man and that, that sort of lovely, linked to scentless and then returning with a passion, an evangelistic passion about the one who healed him, even though at this stage, he doesn't fully understand. Everything about that person. And I can't help, but hear an echo of our friend Legion, a it's not as name, but it's the only name we've got.
[00:49:37] When we looked at him in mark five, David who wants to get in the boat with Jesus and Jesus says, no, no, no. You just stay here and go home and tell your family everything the Lord has done for you. And this man just goes back and tells everybody what happened to him and what he saw and what he saw, what he experienced, what he felt and what he knew about Jesus.
[00:49:57] A whole community of believers is built and you see the same thing happening here. This man is no becoming a mouth piece for Jesus before he's even fully aware of who Jesus is and the chose, then the past. Of the transformation that is going on in this man's world. He was blind. Now he sees the hint that, okay, that was a physical transformation, but clearly now a spiritual transformation is taking place.
[00:50:23] This man who was blind spiritually is no beginning to see something spiritually that will transform his world forever.
[00:50:31] David: Well, I, I, I love that John and and let's just, let's just pause that conversation then right here. And we will come back to this story of the man who was born blind in the next episode.
[00:50:47] Okay. So that's it for the first episode this week, our second part for this week, we'll release on Thursday. If you want to get in touch with either office about something we said, you can reach out. On podcast@twotexts.com. Or by liking and following the two tax podcast on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube.
[00:51:10] Don't forget that you can listen to all of our podcasts www.Twotexts.com. Or wherever you get your podcasts from. But that is it for today. We're back on Thursday, but until then, Goodbye.