In which John and David return to the narrative of John chapter 9 and show, amongst other things, that the story doesn't end where you think. The discussion that follows this miracle is an important one in understanding Jesus as he's shown to us by John. But we also think this story is bigger than we often realize - in more ways than one.
We recommend listening to Miracles 17 before this episode.
Episode Outline
Episode 35 of the Two Texts Podcast | Meaning of Miracles Series 18
If you want to get in touch about something in the podcast you can reach out on podcast@twotexts.com or by liking and following the Two Texts podcast on Facebook, Instagramand Twitter. We're also on YouTube. If you enjoy the podcast, we’d love it if you left a review or comment where you’re listening from – and if you really enjoyed it, why not share it with a friend?
Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021
In which John and David return to the narrative of John chapter 9 and show, amongst other things, that the story doesn't end where you think. The discussion that follows this miracle is an important one in understanding Jesus as he's shown to us by John. But we also think this story is bigger than we often realize - in more ways than one.
We recommend listening to Miracles 17 before this episode.
Episode Outline
Episode 35 of the Two Texts Podcast | Meaning of Miracles Series 18
If you want to get in touch about something in the podcast you can reach out on podcast@twotexts.com or by liking and following the Two Texts podcast on Facebook, Instagramand Twitter. We're also on YouTube. If you enjoy the podcast, we’d love it if you left a review or comment where you’re listening from – and if you really enjoyed it, why not share it with a friend?
Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021
Auto-Transcription by Descript.com
[00:00:00] Hi there. I'm David Harvey. I'm here with John Andrews and this is the two texts podcast. In this podcast, we're two friends in two different countries here every two weeks talking about two different texts taken from the Bible. This is our second season. It's about the miracles of Jesus. And this is episode 18 and it's called John.
[00:00:30] Chapter nine part two.
[00:00:35] David: So John, we are, back in John chapter nine. We had a really pretty deep conversation about John chapter nine in the last episode I had fun. I think you did as well.
[00:00:49] John: Absolutely. I always have fun with you, David. It's marvelous. Come on though.
[00:00:55] David: I think if you've not listened to the last episode, then it's worth going back and listening to that because we're going to do a lot of ground work of making sense. of this miracle there. So if this is, if You've ended up listening to this one before the previous episode, then I would recommend just pausing this, jump back one episode, listen to that one and then come back and join us here.
[00:01:17] John: For sure.
[00:01:19] David: But should we recap our way through chapter nine? just briefly, just to sort of set the scene. Do you want to, do you want to read verses one through seven? Just frame the miracle for us, John, do you have that
[00:01:30] John: Yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to think that's worthwhile. Because the, the miracle itself, of course, is this grit saying the John's point into, and that sets the whole thing up. And we, we, in our last podcast, we really talked about the importance of the first five verses, but the first seven include the miracle as well.
[00:01:48] So it says this as he that's, Jesus went along, he saw a man. Blind from birth that disciples asked him, rabbi who sinned this man or his parents that he was born blind. Neither this man, nor his parents sinned, Jesus said, but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. It's just so beautiful.
[00:02:11] As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me night is coming when no one can work while I am in the world. I am the light of the world. After saying this, he spit on the ground. Sorry, made some mud with the saliva and put it on the man's eyes go. He told him why she in the pool of saloon, this word means sent.
[00:02:38] So the man went and washed and came home, seeing
[00:02:44] David: I love it.
[00:02:47] John: it feels, feels slightly not humorous, but there's a lightness to it and a beauty to it. So you've had this really heavy, sort of introductory conversation.
[00:02:57] And then you get this sort of matter of factness about this miracle while he went out, he waves to come back, he sees, or we are all done. And even the way the man repeats the story later on, he repeats this routineness, it's quite striking how that comes across there. I'm probably not, I'm probably not wording that.
[00:03:14] Right. But that's what it feels like. Okay.
[00:03:17] David: So then, then the sort of story jumps into this there's this. fascinating little theme works through The story because the neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked isn't this the same man. He used to sit and beg, And then you get this whole narrative, then about who actually is this guy.
[00:03:33] And is he the guy, there? there's almost this question. Well, maybe it's not really the guy.
[00:03:37] that used to be blind. Maybe it's somebody else. And it's. I think it's really interesting that We never find out the man's name. He he's variously referred to. as the man who was blind, the man who previous was bind, the man who could now see he gets this, this sort of anonymity, which adds to almost as if John never wants you to forget this guy started this story unable to see.
[00:04:04] And it creates some, some almost humorous moments.
[00:04:07] John: It does. And I think the anonymity of the man is almost something you don't notice until it's pointed out and, it's one of those like, oh yeah. What is his name? We didn't get us near him. Who is he? And so you get this sort of, and for me, David, you know what it does, it feels like, it feels like you've got this almost mysteriousness around Jesus.
[00:04:30] Okay. Who, who, who healed ya? And there's this sort of sense and trying to get to grips with the man who healed the man. And, and then you've got the anonymity of the man, and you've almost got this powerless. On newness in both, in both cases where you've got the man who is unknown by name, and then this mysterious figure, who's healed them in the background.
[00:04:52] Now he will become known to us. And of course, he's, he's known to us at the beginning of the story, but in terms of the wider reader or the way the audience it becomes known. So you get this sort of almost. Like a parallel to me, uh we're we're the unknown, this of Jesus or the uninhibited Jesus, to some extent in the story is parallel by the anonymity of the man himself, and we never get into his Liam, which is really quite striking.
[00:05:19] David: There's more going on here than just what's happening at the, at the surface. And and then John.
[00:05:24] adds this new piece in verse 13 and two S and we should possibly be used to this by now because.
[00:05:30] Definitely choosing the miracle stories based on where they point us about Jesus. So in verse 13, he offers us while this whole miracle happens on the Sabbath. And this creates the challenge now around. The cradle, the Pharisees kind of question. This religious Question is, is about, it seems to be about Jesus he's making of mud.
[00:05:56] This appears to be work I think is, is how this is read by the religious leaders. Is that, is that how you read this?
[00:06:04] John: Definitely. Yeah. It cause the man replaced, he put modern my eyes, I washed and I see, and some of the forest, he said, this man is not from God for, he does not keep this up. And then not, and what it does there, you, so we've already reflected on this Nicodemus thread running through John.
[00:06:22] And I think the next level many nuanced are so powerful because some say, well, because he's not keeping the Sabbath, they can't be from God. And then it says but other said, what? How could a center like seriously boys, how could a center do this? This is this is sort of. Miss anionic level type, miracle that we're talking about.
[00:06:42] And then it says there's a John purchase. So succinctly, so they were divided on we've. I think this
[00:06:50] David: there was a schism.
[00:06:52] John: Absolutely. And of course John's already lent into this a little bit and that nicotine is, has come to Jesus privately. In our last podcast, you just explain to eloquently about the darkness of that connection and how nicotine has come out of the darkness to the light, how Judas went from the light into the darkness.
[00:07:10] If you've missed that podcast, you must listen to it. Just beautiful stuff around that. But of course what it's suggesting nicotine misses languages. We know you are a man come from God. We know. So nicotine is this suggesting to us that actually there's a bunch of us within the Sanhedrin, within the religious community who think you're pretty cool, but w but you're just freaking out slightly until you get that introduction there.
[00:07:37] And then of course, in John chapter seven, When there's controversy around Jesus and even those who are sent to report on Jesus, come back and go, Hey, we have never heard anything like this. There's we have never heard Amman speak like this month on under religious committee. get very irritated at that unders clearly dissent within the community and nicotine misses, part of that descent on behalf of Jesus.
[00:08:05] So there's a little schism there now. Very, very, very, very. But it's there. And then the schism seems to be flagged again by, by John here, they were divided. And I think that's a sort of a running three theme in the gospel of John. There is a growing division within the religious community because on the one hand, those who believe that Shabbat is the ultimate expression of how to be a good man and how to be a good leader on religious leader.
[00:08:35] Identity. People are going to the other. Yeah. But hold on. The guy's blind. I know he sees, you've got to take that into a crime. So there's a growing division within this community because of the actions of Jesus. And I think John is definitely leaning into that,
[00:08:50] David: I think he's trying to help us see their uncertainty and therefore. Almost the untrustworthiness of their opinions, because there's a, well, he can't be from God because he didn't keep the Sabbath a bit. How does a sinner perform such signs?
[00:09:07] And so they can't decide. So they actually turned to the man who was blind to go, well, what do you think? Which almost at some level reeks of desperation, let's, let's ask the guy and, and, and, and so the guy replies, well, I think he's. Right. Which of course John wants you to spot well, that's not quite right. Although he is going to be in the prophetic tradition, but what I think is hilarious again, is that, so we can't decide,
[00:09:31] So we're going to ask you, so the man says, well, I think he's a prophet and then they obviously go man. No, we don't like that. answer. So, So now let's go back to his parents and I think.
[00:09:41] Building this scene of just look how uncertain they are. And therefore you, as the reader can realize they, they don't know what to do about this. They're grasping at straws, but they know the answers they don't like. So the man, the man's initial answer, I think.
[00:09:58] he's a prophet. No.
[00:09:58] we don't like that. So they dragged them as parents.
[00:10:01] And now they raise this new question, to them like, is this actually your son? is this the one that, you say was born blind? so now, now we're not even sure if this is him. And if it is him, was he definitely born blind? Like what's going on here? and it just speaks to the lack of. concreteness of their position.
[00:10:24] Doesn't It
[00:10:25] John: It does it does. And, and your rate, the desperation, it feels like they are groping desperately for the exit door in the midst of the, the sort of smoke in the room. There's gotta be an exit here somewhere. And if we push hard enough, we will find the door. And the harder they push the worst, this Luke's.
[00:10:44] David: Yes.
[00:10:45] John: and even, they, they have literally backed the parents into a corner as well, because, because there's this sort of weird probation that anyone who sort of identifies that Jesus is the Christ will be put out of the synagogue. So the parents already know this is out there.
[00:11:01] They do not want to be put out of the synagogue and shim. And so they then, but the question back to their son while he's of age, ask him, so you're getting this, this sense of just chaos, desperation on certainty and security. And, and I think John. Is showing that sort of growing, growing sense of loss newness in the religious community, which ultimately I think expresses itself in darkness.
[00:11:32] And it does go back for our viewer. We have been reflecting on this idea that, that Jesus is his life and light, according to the prologue. And therefore, as we're leaning towards Jesus the light we are, we are going to be exposed to the truth or his truth. And therefore the converse is true. As we're moving away from Jesus, we are naturally then sort of moving into darkness around that.
[00:11:59] And, and, and that's making that, that's making their judgments more and more confused, I think, around that. And I think it's definitely going on there.
[00:12:09] David: Yeah, everyone's trying to everyone. to try And to sort of punt the ball for want of a better
[00:12:15] term. Just, don't leave me in the spotlight and the only person that actually, well, let me say it like this, the Pharisees are uncertain, so They end up with a.
[00:12:25] The parents, they don't want to get involved. because they have this fear. I love the language. The kinda strength of the language in the Greek, the Jewish leaders had decided that if anyone confessed Christ. So we translate that often acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah, but the Greeks quite simple, if they confessed Christ they'd be thrown out of the synagogue. The parents say he's of age. So I probably means the boys over 13. I think it can be coming of age, was going to 13.
[00:12:54] plus one day in the tradition. So they, but, So you've got this narrative.
[00:12:59] of schism amongst the, the leaders kind of distancing amongst the parents. But every time,
[00:13:05] we cycle back round to the man he's developed his.
[00:13:09] That's every time we meet him, he's a little more confident and he's getting a little more kind of affirmed in what he thinks. So the first time he's like, well, I don't actually know where he is the second time.
[00:13:21] I think he's a prophet. Right. But then, but then the second time they summoned the man who had been blind.
[00:13:27] Now, the, the Pharisee have kind of tried to double down a little bit We know this man is this. But Of course, this and we've talked about this in this series before, this is actually a really problematic position to take because the healing and the man even alludes to this, with the healing of someone who is blind is a, is a messianic miracle.
[00:13:46] It's not one that happens in the old Testament. In fact, profits themselves outside of Elijah in your life. I'm not really big miracle workers in the, in the old Testament traditions, are They So, so they've, they've really cornered themselves with the definition of
[00:14:02] him as a sinner, which, which is difficult for them to, to really hold to, which is where the beauty of the man's situation is really quite powerful. where he says, Well, here's what I know. I was blind now.
[00:14:16] I'm not.
[00:14:17] John: It's fabulous. I mean, it's a fabulous, I have to say that that sort of, I was, my eyes were just on the text as you were just coming to it though. Do, but you know, whether he is a sinner or not, I don't know. But one thing I do know I was blamed no AC I was blind.
[00:14:35] No, I'm not. Okay. Answer that for me. Explain that to me. So, so I, and, and ironically, by, by almost trying to avoid. The elephant in the room, the guy was blamed and no, he sees, they literally highlight the elephant than the room. And he goes yeah, I am the elephant in the room, I was blamed, but now I actually can see, can you explain that to me and put that in whatever theological box you want, but that stuff, this stuff doesn't normally happen.
[00:15:09] And he actually says to them, Hey, look, we know this doesn't. This there's nothing on the record, biblical record of this even happening. So we are nine into territory of, of miracles that forgive my language are sort of like premier league. Miracles in terms of even the biblical narrative not a record of a blind man, a person being born blind, who, who gets his sight.
[00:15:35] So this is no off the scale, but, but no, it's, it's sort of controversy. Well, is he a center or not under two things don't marry together. And the man himself NEI with his simple while I was blind, no AC is becoming the brand evangelist for Jesus without really knowing at this stage who Jesus is. He still not quite sure.
[00:15:59] The one they called Jesus. He says so, so that's all he knows at this stage. Jesus is near him. He really doesn't know anything about them at this moment, but again, it leans into this beautiful here's a man who's had his physical darkness changed. He's been literally brought out of physical darkness to light and as the story progress as the narrative progress, it almost looks like he's moving from spiritual darkness towards the light.
[00:16:27] Because as you've said, his story, every time we circle right into. A little bit stronger, a little bit clearer and it's nodding closer and closer to the light. So to go back to our conversation previously, David, where you talked about nicotine was moving from the darkness into the light. It feels like this is the trajectory of the man he's moved on literally from darkness, but he's also moving is, is even as confession seems to be moving.
[00:16:55] More and more and more towards the light of who Jesus is. And of course as he said, Jesus said himself at the beginning of this story, I am the light of the world. So it's a powerful trajectory.
[00:17:07] David: And so we're going to keep referring to that. Cause it's going to get more and more important to hang on to that. But meanwhile, look at the Pharisees, They just say, okay, so we don't really like that. We don't want to answer that.
[00:17:17] question. I was blind, but now I see. So then they start getting into the mechanics or so what did he actually do?
[00:17:23] How did he open your eyes as if that's somehow going To help them come to the conclusion, that they want? to which point
[00:17:30] the man's again, look at this. Now he's beginning to recognize his role in this story, that he is the evangelist. Because, because he says, well, I told you this already and then he just puts his just brilliant line, Well, do you want to become.
[00:17:44] his disciples too? Like, are you interested in this story because you want to follow him? It's it's, it's, it's beautifully cheeky. And
[00:17:53] Quite wonderful.
[00:17:54] John: it feels to me. So this is me. I have to be careful. I'm not knowing ACG says here, David, but you know, being, being of Celtic origin, there's a little sense. Gino's does this feel like he's getting his own back on the religious community? Who've probably walked past him, looked down their nose as Adam believing he was steeped in sin from his mother's womb that it has blamed.
[00:18:17] This was a product of service. Evil and his family as parents rent himself. And here he is now, and he's the center of attention. And he seems to be quite enjoying being the center of attention on making them feel as uncomfortable. Now, this is quite remarkable because his parents are deeply intimidated by the, by the investigator.
[00:18:38] They're almost afraid to speak too much. He's, he's absolutely sucking the oxygen out of this room. Now he's gone for a while. Come on. Are you on a bit more? Let's do this. I'm clearly an and it's hard to know from the two nation, it feels like he senses the insecurity in the room. He senses the fear in the room and he sends us the phone.
[00:18:59] Hold on. These experts. They really don't know what's going on here. And it's like, he's enjoying this moment. Well, I do know what's going on. I was blamed, but now I see and it, it feels like he's got the opera hand, which is really strange, really weird. And he seems to be enjoying it.
[00:19:16] David: Yeah, he, he definitely does. Doesn't he? And so then you can that you get a couple of points, which I think make a lot more depth and sense to you If you've been tracking with John's gospels, the first one then is so they hurl, insults at him, literally revile and abuse. Him is a certain language. Use it here you are this, fellow's disciple. we are disciples of Moses unusual little freeze. Yeah. but a phrase that you don't,
[00:19:45] see used in kind of comparative Jewish documents very often, but then
[00:19:51] they double down on.
[00:19:52] this. We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don't even know where he comes from. And so the first part of this is the question of, of the discipleship of Moses, which Cannot help but draw you back to the comments in chapter one
[00:20:07] John: Yeah, the, the, the connection back to the prologue is really unmissable. It's an unmissable connection. The law came through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. I mean, that is a big alarm. The moment then that prologue and clearly Jesus is not just.
[00:20:26] Following Moses. He is the fulfillment of Bose's. He supersedes Moses on actually everything he's about to bring Moses only dreamed of seeing in his fulfillment. So, so you get that beautiful sense of that. And of course auditor that we don't know where he's come from. And of course John and the prologue has told us, oh no, I know exactly what he's come from.
[00:20:49] And in fact, before Moses was the one before, existed. So you, you just get this magnificent reconnection to that. And that's an, I think that is an unmissable link back to the prologue where it talks about. And life that's coming into the world. He came to a zone and they didn't recognize him.
[00:21:09] They didn't receive him. But to those who did receive him, he gave the right to become children of God. And here we have the religious community struggling to receive G. Whatever way we understand receive certainly struggling to recognize no, the blame man or the man born blind is starting to recognize Jesus, starting to see Jesus.
[00:21:35] And he's moving to this son ship towards the son ship and these, these incredible sky. Who should, who should be the first to embrace this? Jesus as disciples of Moses are actually in danger. Not normally not recognizing him, but being kind of say, this carefully rejected as sons of God. So it's, so if you, if you tie the prologue together with Moses, the recognition, the acceptance, and becoming children of God, I mean, this is all, this is not explosive in chapter nine and it reaches a, even a climax, I think, as we approached it, the climax we're about to touch on in chapter nine and even in the chapter 10.
[00:22:19] I think then all that language of not recognizing I'm the son of God I'm giving right. To believe as children of God. I think it becomes even more powerful in the light of that.
[00:22:33] David: a passage that somebody might want to look at, it would be John chapter seven, verse 40 through to verse 43 44, because this question is, is out there. Well, let me read it to
[00:22:43] you. It says Jesus, Jesus is speaking. And some of the crowds then say, this is really the prophet. And other said, well, this is the Messiah, but some asked, surely the Messiah. does not come from Galilee does He has not. The scripture said that the Messiah is descended from David and comes from Bethlehem, the village where David lives. so there was a schism. in the crowd because of him. So
[00:23:12] here you have this same sort of. A question out there in John's gospel, but it's full of deep
[00:23:19] irony, right?
[00:23:19] Surely the Messiah does not come from Galilee. Does he? So there's that questions out there, right? Well, well, that, that needs a little bit of working through, but even, and John's never spoke to this, so I think he just knows you as a, as a reader, know this there's even, even then read the question. well,
[00:23:34] he can't be. because he's not.
[00:23:36] from Bethlehem. And I think the person that knows the story of Jesus, maybe you've read Matthew and Luke, you realize, oh, wait a minute. That's deeply ironic. Because when you do get to the point of talking about where He where he's from, you get it completely wrong. So there's, so there's, I feel like there's a double level of irony when the. The man who had previously been blind, says you don't even know where he comes from. Like, like you really don't know where he comes from. You don't know where he was born on earth and you don't know where he comes from with God. So it it's, it's brilliant this double level of this man's moving closer and closer.
[00:24:13] The more he talks, the closer he gets to the light and the more everybody else talks the further away they get, like they knew less by the end than they did at the start.
[00:24:23] John: And that really does lean into this sort of climactic moment in the story for me, where in verse 34, it. And they threw him out, so you, so you get this, then there's almost as, as, as they are getting more and more frustrated and confused about what's going on here, it's it's he at the same time has seemed to be getting more and more confident and clear around what has happened.
[00:24:51] Then, then we've got this claim Mack decline moment where they. Replied to him in a very insulting way. You were steeped in Senate birth, how dare you lecture us? And they threw him. And it's thick. It's almost like two, two, again, the light and the darkness conversation. It's the end compatibility of the two things that ultimately though, though there was a middle ground where they could have negotiated ultimately this, this worldview that's moving away from Jesus and this worldview that's moving towards Jesus.
[00:25:25] They just can't be compatible. And you get this, this not only division from within the religious community, but no, this is expulsion where this man is cast out of the ode of the synagogue or at least out of that place at that moment. And I love the very, I love the very next freest in verse 35. It says, Jesus.
[00:25:49] Her did, they had thrown them out and I'd love to know how he heard that. So was this just use out there at your F you, have you heard the latest or had someone passed this on to him, but I love this. And then I love this next bit David, to find this just beautiful. I find this, this redemptive motif in John, the word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
[00:26:10] And then it says this and when he phoned him. So, so they throw them on. Jesus heard that they had thrown him out and Jesus phone tem, the, the word made flesh finds the man who is throw on night and, and reengages with them. And I just find that a beautiful there's a lovely, nice shift of gear about to take place and this sort of costs.
[00:26:38] Divisive argumentative environment. No, there's a shift of gear that takes place and we get this, this beautiful phoned moment. So the man has had a healing moment. Now he has a phone moment in this relationship with Jesus. I just love that.
[00:26:55] David: And the interconnecting it's diverse, 35 to 34 is really important. So don't, don't miss that, the Pharisees have, well, they've just doubled down on the, the mistake from the start of the story. The story starts with who. We've had this long conversation, 34 verses of backwards and forwards, and they basically land on the thing we learned not to be true in verse two.
[00:27:24] So, so think of it. Think about just the irony Again,
[00:27:27] of that story. You were steeped in Senate birth. Jesus has quite literally said that's Not the cause of the
[00:27:33] John: true.
[00:27:34] David: here, but we're going to double down. But there's an interesting interplay there. This, because that then becomes, this is the way, if you're not gonna, if you're, what was it?
[00:27:44] Jesus said, well, It's neither the man nor his parents who sin, but this has been done to make manifest the works of God. So the Pharisees essentially say, no, we're going to reject what has been made manifest. And we're going to hold to this system, which says, no, we think it's something you did. So, and they throw the man out.
[00:28:05] And I think about John. They throw the man out from what will they throw him out from the synagogue, but there's also a sense they throw him out from this way of thinking. So the man is now citizenship list. He's lost his abode. He's lost this place. So what's beautiful is
[00:28:23] he then meets G. Or Jesus finds him and invite him into a different way of being right.
[00:28:31] Well, do you believe in the son of man? Right. So, because at some level the man has to cause he's nowhere else to go is his old way of thinking As much as,
[00:28:39] his old way, police of being both have been rejected. By him. Right. And then you get this and I do think it's important to note, Galatians four verse eight, there's this beautiful line where Paul says now that, God, and then he cracks himself.
[00:28:54] And I love the fact that he leaves the correction and the text he says, now that Or rather are known by God. And we do this thing, we do this thing about, Oh, this is when I found Jesus. And I think John 9 35 reminds us that, he found you, he was, he was looking for you and he found you. So, So like a lot of, a lot of heavy lifting going on.
[00:29:18] in two, in two little verses at right there.
[00:29:21] I think, give us a real sense of what John's trying to help us with in this chat.
[00:29:27] John: Gorgeous. Gorgeous
[00:29:29] David: So John, I'm going to read verse 35 through to the end of the chapter, because we didn't read these in the last episode.
[00:29:35] And I think there's some stuff we don't want to miss here. So you've alluded to already but verse 35.
[00:29:41] says this Jesus heard that they had thrown him out. And when he found him, he said, do you believe in the son of man? Oh, who is he? Sir? The man asked, tell me so that I may believe in him. And Jesus said, you have now seen him.
[00:29:56] In fact, he is the one speaking with you. And then the man said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped him. And Jesus said for judgment, I have come into the world so that the blind will see. And those who see will become blind. Some Pharisees who were with him, heard him say this and asked, what are we blind to?
[00:30:21] And Jesus said, if you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin. But now that you claim, you can see your guilt remains.
[00:30:32] John: Wow.
[00:30:33] David: There's a punch to the end of the passage.
[00:30:36] John: So absolutely. Yeah, I, this, this lovely piece of, of brilliant conclusion to this story, I think it's, it really is magnificent and. I love the line that really moved me. I, I literally, as you read it, I, I responded emotionally just listening to it. Where Jesus says in verse 37, you have no seen him.
[00:31:03] In fact, it is, he is the one speaking to you. I, for me, that's, that's the marrying of NY, the magnificence of. The physical act of bringing light to the mum's darkness. the whole point of the real physical act of bringing light to his darkness was so that this man could see now I know he gets to see him literally, but of course we know we can see Jesus spiritually, but isn't there a beautiful connectedness.
[00:31:34] Okay. His eyes are open. I know he sees. The Messiah. He sees the son of man for himself and, and I love the, the linkage there. I love the trajectory of that. I love the fact that his physical. Site is the precursor to the spiritual revelation. That is, that is taking place. And he's nice seeing something that the religious community is struggling to see.
[00:32:07] He is recognizing what they are struggling to recognize. He is no receiving. What they are struggling to receive. And it's just all my goodness. You could again see the Johanna and dots flashing unconnecting text. It's just amazing. It's amazing.
[00:32:27] David: if you were to open up your spreadsheet, software, Microsoft XL or something like that, and you could, you could create columns. You could have the, the man who was born blind in one column, you could have, you could have the religious leaders in another column and then down the side. Seeing spiritual, seeing, knowing who Jesus is, knowing where Jesus is from and at the start of the story, the man, Kenny, see, he has an X.
[00:32:55] No, he can't, kay. Does he know who Jesus is? No, he doesn't. Can he see spirit? No, no, he can't. But slowly over the course of the story, his ex he's turned to checks on. Yes. Now he can see physically by the end, he can see spiritually, but there's this really Dark side to the story where by the end, the Pharisees can see physics.
[00:33:18] But they're unable to see spiritually. And so it has this kind of dark twist at the end where Jesus is says, well, I've actually covered. and we've seen.
[00:33:30] him cause division there's a schism, even in this passage, there's a schism in verse in chapter seven. And Jesus comes for, for a moment of judgment.
[00:33:38] It's going to, it's going to invite people to see, but some who see will choose not to. Jesus says, it's like, it's, it's got this. Wait to the end of this story. Isn't there a morning to the end of this story.
[00:33:51] John: Massive. And in fact, if we are prepared to nudge from name into 10 and I know that 10 stands magnificently and its own, right. In terms of the message of town, it's phenomenal. But, but if we were to, if we were to go from 41 inane straight into 10, my goodness, listen, you get the sense of that sense of a big boom moment at the end.
[00:34:15] It's even more powerful. Okay. Because Jesus said, if you're blind, you'd not be guilty of sin, but now that you claimed the same. Your guilt remains. And he goes on to say, very truly. I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pan by the get, but claims and by some other way, as a thief and a robber, the one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.
[00:34:40] The gatekeeper opens the gate for. And the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by his name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them and his sheep follow him because they knew his voice. Almost there I'll stop in a moment, but they will never follow a stranger.
[00:35:03] In fact, they will run away from him because they. Recognize the stranger's voice. Jesus used this figure of speech. Look, listen to this, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them. So, so like naturally we often bring that division between the magnificence of the story of tan and in leading our nine and in leading the chapter 10, which has the big IRM, the good I am, the good shepherd.
[00:35:32] And they at all almost is like chapter 10 sets on its own. But actually it we're led into the sort of magnificence of this sheep and sheep pen and get a good shepherd and voice and recognize me. And don't recognize me. All of that's coming off the back of this story of the man born blind on the fact that he's not recognizing who Jesus is.
[00:35:57] He's not hearing the voice of Jesus. He's no following G. And the community that should have seen Jesus should have recognized Jesus and should be here in the voice of Jesus is now finding themselves on the outside of the sheet pan. And I cannot help, but see the incredible connectedness of John chapter 10 into this, the story of the mom born blind.
[00:36:22] Does that make sense to you or is that
[00:36:25] David: well, we can't stop their junk because, because you're a hundred, right. So chapters verses and headings are all later additions. So in John's writing, he isn't thinking I'm right in John chapter nine here. He's just telling us the story. So you might. In my opinion, you must read until there's a natural break and here, if nobody believes you, I'm going to defend your further job, because keep, if we keep going.
[00:36:51] Right. But let me just read it, just briefly in that sense. So the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them. That's John chapter 10, verse six, But but then Jesus, moves into a section where he says, therefore Jesus says again, so nobody got it. I'm coming in. for round twos. Yes, Very truly.
[00:37:07] He says, I am the gate for the sheep. All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. Now, this is Surely there's an illusion there to this man. Who's just been healed. Right. Who was supposed to be looking after him was the teachers was the religious experts, but they, but they weren't.
[00:37:25] Right. And in fact, they they've actually, the man's now not listening to, in fact, he was actually teaching them. So but Jesus is, the gate and
[00:37:33] whoever enters through him will be saved. And then you get.
[00:37:35] John: and
[00:37:36] David: Beautiful text that many of us will know. Verse 10 of chapter 10. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they might have life
[00:37:46] John: life.
[00:37:46] David: and have it to the. So then Jesus, no doubles down again. I'm a good shepherd. I am the good shepherd. Sorry. The good shepherd lays down his life for his sheep. So now we're projecting into what's coming. The hired hand is not the shepherd And does not own the sheep.
[00:38:02] When he sees the Wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs. Right. And, and why is this? Jesus tells us in verse 13 because he's a hired hand and he does not care for the sheep. Bear in mind, this man has been abandoned. Right? He's being kicked out. Jesus. Now I am The good shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me. That might be John's answer. And We're living in the highly metaphorical. here at John, for sure. But that might be John's answer to your earlier question. How did Jesus find him? Right? How do you know when you said?
[00:38:32] How did Jesus hear that? That he'd been kicked out. Well, the good shepherd knows where he, she far, right?
[00:38:38] It's the John's he's tying all beautifully together. Any, any lady's life down. And then he says, I have other sheep that are not of the sheep pen, huge theological conversation there, but let's just prickly jump over that. But I'm bringing them also. They'll also.
[00:38:51] listen to my voice and there will be one flock and one shepherd. And the reason my father loves
[00:38:57] Is because I laid down my life, no one takes it on me. So we're now really pushing forward, I have the authority to lay it down, the authority to take it up again, but this, snow, okay. this is the end of the chapter.
[00:39:09] of the story that we're dealing with in my mind, because the Jews who heard these words were again, schism there's, another divide happens.
[00:39:18] Many of them said He's demon possessed. So they've really ramped up. the accusations that Many of them said he is demon possessed and Raven. Y listened to him, but others
[00:39:28] said, these are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. And the here's your sentence that lets you know, this is the end of the story.
[00:39:35] Can a demon open the eyes of the blind and then the next verse is a new whole story beginning. So actually. I mean, there's a lot we've had to try and do there, but this story of the man who was born blind Really From chapter nine, verse one through to chapter 10, verse 21. I mean, that's how I, that's how I would encapsulate that.
[00:39:58] Anyway,
[00:39:59] John, I mean, w and look at the theological depth that Jesus is now churning through, and really you see what are the signs doing? They're pointing us forward to what Jesus is going to do. And Jesus joins all of the dots For us there at that point. Doesn't he.
[00:40:17] John: Phenomenal. And of course, you realize then the story of the man born blind in chapter nine is linking even around that three of the massive IRM sayings. So, I am the light of the world. I am the gate. I am the good shepherd, boom. I mean, the whole thing is being pulled together. So we then see, wow, this is a loaded saying this thing.
[00:40:44] Have a Judy I not only as a heavy Judy because wow mom, born blind. That's a truly messianic. We, we don't see that miracle floating around at all in the biblical texts, or it's an oat standing miracle, but actually the story of this man coming from the darkness into the light is now linking together some of the biggest theological ideas about the identity of Jesus and the ministry of Jesus on earth and in this context.
[00:41:17] And what does that ministry of Jesus do it divides. So some are going, this is bonkers. We cannot possibly accept this on. Others have gone. Hi, can we ignore this? This cannot be from anywhere other than God. And so you get this growing controversy around the identity of Jesus, which is, I think demonstrated through the same age of these incredible miracles of which.
[00:41:46] Probably a shock to our listeners. The miracle of the man born blind is one of the most outstanding moments in the whole of the gospels. And yet it's, I think for a vast majority of followers of Jesus, they just see it as another miracle. And it's one of the most outstanding and have a, and weird it, an influential miracles that Jesus.
[00:42:11] David: It feels to me, like we have had sign one, right? Which
[00:42:16] now comparatively, and I see this with a lot of reverence,
[00:42:21] But comparatively seems quite straightforward. We turn in water. But each miracle, I'm imagining a crank, that's being ratcheted tighter. And we've kind of the first ratchet, when you're, when you're ratcheting something up, like to secure it to your van or your trailer or something, you're your ratchet.
[00:42:40] And The first few ratchets actually go quite easily. Don't they? And You're ratcheting
[00:42:43] and you're watching. and then there gets a moment where when you start thinking, man, this thing's tight. note And I might only have a couple of clicks before it all blows open and I can over it. And it. I feel like John chapter nine has got us there, like we're into the last few clicks and there's one more sign coming.
[00:43:02] And that's what we're going to talk about in our next two episodes. But there's one more sign coming, which is the death and resurrection of Lazarus. But, But it's there isn't it, it would just eat. so finely balanced
[00:43:13] The tension is, is massive. And so I just, I want to leave.
[00:43:18] that tension just there, John, and just make one little comment before we go, which is chapter nine, verse 38, which I think is a beautiful little moment.
[00:43:30] It says, and the man said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped. Now the reason I just mentioned that it's just really, it's a beautiful little moment here because this, the last time that worship was mentioned in John's gospel was when Jesus was having a theological debate with the woman Samaritan. About where is the right place to worship and, and what's fascinating is it kind of stayed unresolved that question. Well,
[00:44:01] you Jews think we should worship here. And we, we Samaritans think we should worship here and Jesus kind of leaves it. It's the wrong question to ask. And it's been left hanging out there and here the next time, the word worship is used in John's gospel. we have now cut through all of the theological debate about whether it's Samarria or Jerusalem.
[00:44:23] And the man says, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped Jesus. And I think it's, again, I just it's too significant for me just to miss it that it's John just stitching all of these pieces together for us in this Beautiful.
[00:44:37] John: Absolutely moving, moving worship from a place to the person. Absolutely beautiful. Love that magnificent stuff.
[00:44:44] Okay. So that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. We hope that you enjoyed it. If you'd like to get in touch with either office about something that we said in this episode. And then you can reach out to us on podcast@twotexts.com or by liking and following the two texts podcast on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube.
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[00:45:34] We will be back in two weeks time with another episode. But until then, Goodbye.