In which John and David continue their discussion of the final "sign" of John's Gospel's miracles. In this episode they continue to explore chapter 11 and the story of Lazarus. In a weird quirk, they are also discussing the shortest verse in the Bible, John 11:35, at 11:35 in this episode! You should also note that Part 1 is worth listening to before this episode.
Episode Outline
Episode 36 of the Two Texts Podcast | Meaning of Miracles Series 20
If you want to get in touch about something in the podcast you can reach out on podcast@twotexts.com or by liking and following the Two Texts podcast on Facebook, Instagramand Twitter. We're also on YouTube. If you enjoy the podcast, we’d love it if you left a review or comment where you’re listening from – and if you really enjoyed it, why not share it with a friend?
Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021
In which John and David continue their discussion of the final "sign" of John's Gospel's miracles. In this episode they continue to explore chapter 11 and the story of Lazarus. In a weird quirk, they are also discussing the shortest verse in the Bible, John 11:35, at 11:35 in this episode! You should also note that Part 1 is worth listening to before this episode.
Episode Outline
Episode 36 of the Two Texts Podcast | Meaning of Miracles Series 20
If you want to get in touch about something in the podcast you can reach out on podcast@twotexts.com or by liking and following the Two Texts podcast on Facebook, Instagramand Twitter. We're also on YouTube. If you enjoy the podcast, we’d love it if you left a review or comment where you’re listening from – and if you really enjoyed it, why not share it with a friend?
Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021
Auto-Generated by Descript.com
[00:00:00] Intro: Hi there. I'm David Harvey and I'm here with John Andrews and this. Is the two techs podcast. In this podcast, we're two friends in two different countries here every two weeks talking about two different texts from the Bible.
[00:00:17] This is the final episode of our second season. It's about the miracles of Jesus. And this is episode 20 and it's called. Lazarus. Part two.
[00:00:33] John: Well, David, we are back in John chapter 11. I've been so excited about getting back to this and in our, in our previous podcast, we sort of delved in to chapter 11. Worked our way through the story. If our listeners want the food and reading of that tax, then the previous podcast will help with that. But we are jumping straight in and that we had reached a stage and incredible moment where. Engages with Jesus. Although she's got our timings on the resurrection a little bit low wrong, there's a belief that Lazarus will raise from the dead. She mixed this incredible confession that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God.
[00:01:12] And then immediately goes off and gets mad. And brings Mary to Jesus and we're sort of picking it up really from that point where we're Mary Russia's
[00:01:22] gets up quickly and goes to Jesus and and, and she then engages with Jesus. So, so, we're, we're at a beautiful moment in that story.
[00:01:35] David: and I, something that's partied when I was reading through the text was this, this. I was going to see similarity, but there's more than similar. It's the same, both Martha and Mary say exactly the same thing to Jesus. Yeah, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
[00:01:57] It's quite interesting.
[00:01:58] Just the, the, the same statement is made. So there's this, there's this belief in Jesus. That's very present there. Whereas you think back to a chapter five, Jesus says to the, to the guy, well, Hey, do you know, do you want it to be well? And the guy's response is, well, nobody will help me get into the water.
[00:02:20] So yes, I want it to be well, but I don't see Jesus as a mechanism of. Me being well the, the, the blind man in John chapter nine, he's like, well, yeah, I believe in this Messiah, if you could tell me where he was and Jesus. Yeah, no, that's me. The man hasn't figured that out. The woman at the well, well, yeah, you don't really understand how you're going to draw water.
[00:02:42] You don't have anything to draw a watcher with. So this little tweak in this story, To me. Anyway, John is, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. This is as very clear logic from, and Martha Jesus can solve this issue for us, which puts them in rarefied space in John's miracle stories.
[00:03:03] John: It does. And I think it leans into again, the idea of the intimacy of the relationship this family have with Jesus. It's more than just friends. They are absolutely disciples. They are open up their home to him. They are affording hospitality to him. They are supporting him. Yeah.
[00:03:22] certainly we see him showing up at Bethany and their home on a number of occasions.
[00:03:28] So these are people that will have had privileged space with Jesus. They will have heard inside conversations inside. And they've clearly got it. I mean, they have absolutely got it. And for those that listen to our previous nuance and your little reflection on the beloved disciple whether, whether you go all the way with that or not, you've certainly got traction that you've got three people here who get Jesus.
[00:03:52] They understand who he is. And the fact that Martha's words in verse 21 and Mary's words in verse 32 are identity. Means they've, they've probably reflected on this. They've talked about this, you talked about that four day gap and, and, and where is he? Why isn't he here? If he was here Lazarus wouldn't, wouldn't be sick if he was here, Lazarus wouldn't die.
[00:04:17] So you've got two women of tremendous fear. Within this and, and, and just for me, divid a lovely little nuances. I think I landed into this in a previous podcast, but let me just repeat it again in case it didn't say it. There's a beautiful contrast for me. From Luke tan to John 11 and Mary, where in Luke 10, Mary is sitting at the feet of Jesus. And then here we have an in verse 32 says when Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw. She fell at his feet. I I'm quite moved by that. I'm quite touched by that. There's something gloriously, spontaneous, pure beautiful fifth driven by this, this, this isn't just the action of a desperate woman, but this is someone who really knows whose feet she is falling.
[00:05:11] You don't get the sense of erratic desperation here. You get the sense of it's Jesus. I need to get to Jesus. I need to get to Jesus right now. And the fact that she then confesses. If, if you had been here, he wouldn't have died. There's something tender and deep. This is not, it's not the behavior of someone who's angsty with Jesus.
[00:05:32] This is someone who saw relieved. Jesus has turned up on, under something. Beautifully beautifully tender in that moment where she falls at his feet. And I on Jesus' reaction when he saw her weeping and those also with her weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. So there there's a reaction to Mary.
[00:05:58] That you're not getting to Martha. Martha seems to be a much more controlled in her reaction to Jesus. It's a phenomenal, as you alluded to in our previous podcast, theological theologically clear conversation Mary Martha seems to be really. Resigned and in control. Whereas when Mary comes the whole emotion of the story explodes, it goes to a whole different level and it might, it may point, I don't want to over cook this for our listeners that make point to even within this wonderful family, there, there is, there are different levels of intimacy that Jesus has with this family, you, you know what it's like, you can, you can, you can meet people and have a deeper connection with one member of the family than the other.
[00:06:45] And yet you love them all. And, and could that be what's going on here? There's something there's something deeply emotional and worshipful in Mary's reaction in Jesus' reaction to Mary that you'd not seen in Martha. And yet Martha's is just as beautiful. It's just different. It's different. And, and theirs, isn't that gorgeous at the Lowe's for that?
[00:07:06] For a Martha to react in her way. I was totally accepted and loved unmarried to react in her way and draw a response from Jesus. I just think there's just a gorgeous nuance in there.
[00:07:17] David: And I think you're supposed to track that in the story. I don't think this is. Pointless narrative, sometimes you read stories and you're given details and you're, you're, you're sort of like, well, why, why am I giving all these details? I think I said it before. I feel like, I feel like John.
[00:07:36] Is the Christopher Nolan of gospel writers. That every time you watch a Christopher Nolan movie, you see something else that you realize should have spotted that first time. We mentioned it in a previous episode, three occasions, three, five and 36. There's an illusion to the love this, this group of people have for each other.
[00:07:56] So when you have. When, when you keep getting an arrow pointing at it, going, Hey, look, by the way they loved each other. I don't think you're supposed to then ignore the fact that they love each other. I don't think you're supposed to go well, I don't think that's relevant. There's clearly escalating senses of the fact that they, they, they love each other, right.
[00:08:19] John: Yeah, so beautiful. So beautiful.
[00:08:22] David: so, so the come to the tomb, this story just keeps, keeps going. And Steve was giving us so much to talk about doesn't it.
[00:08:31] John: Well, it.
[00:08:31] does. And, and for me, there's th there's, there's a gorgeous little, I suppose, in the buildup to the term for me, dear, but I just want to, I wanted to hear your reflections on this. We've got, we've got
[00:08:45] in verse 33, verse 35. Verse 36 and then in verse 38
[00:08:56] references to deep emotion.
[00:08:58] So that, that, that we just allude those for our listeners. First 33, when Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. We can reflect on that verse 35. Jesus. I mean, Sunday school, I was told shortest version of able yeah.
[00:09:18] W we get all that, but that's not the point of the shortest verse in the Bible.
[00:09:21] It's, it's the fact that my goodness, this is a succinct gloriously, powerful he wept and, and that doesn't happen very often in this explicit way in the gospels. And then of course The reaction of verse 36, see how he loved him. So whatever way Jesus is reacting in this weeping, it is clearly interpreted by the old liquors as a deep expression of love.
[00:09:46] And in verse 38, as he gets to the term, Jesus wants more deeply moved. Once more deeply moved came to the, I just, I think the saturation of emotional Vulnerability. And can I say the word celebration? Is that too much, but it's, it's, it's like, it's like John as soon as Mary comes, John's just turning this up and Raveling in this incredible expression of emotion that's going on here.
[00:10:16] And, and of course we've, we've seen Jesus move with compassion before different, different sort of conversation, different sort of words. But, but here we have Jesus deeply moved, troubled, agitated in his.
[00:10:31] David: Yes,
[00:10:31] John: We've been and doing it in such a way that the crowd are going well. He really, really, really, really does love them.
[00:10:39] So we're getting an insight into the humanity of Jesus, which in, in, in the Johanna and gospel, which holds up the sort of Godness of Jesus we're getting an insight into his humanity, which is one of the most explicit and the gospel tax. Would that be fair? I said, as a sort of a runaway.
[00:10:58] David: Yes, I think so. And I want to agree and push it even a little bit more for its sort of teaching value because Jesus is, there's all this emotion, like you say, it's like this, this highly emotionally charged piece of text. It's John 1135. That actually interests me even further though, because. Like you say it's like, that was a Sunday stool question when I was in.
[00:11:27] In church in, it's like shortest verse in the Bible, John 1135, we all knew that, w w everyone has to remember a Bible verse to, to win a prize. Everybody chooses John 1135. I mean, goodness, children's children today in church don't know what they missed. But, but think about this, that Jesus weeps within versus.
[00:11:51] Of rolling back. Like if we're taking John at his presentation, Jesus knows the process. He knows what's going on here. This has all been done to glorify God. So Jesus knows that he's going to head to the tomb, open up the, the, the store and, and have Lazarus leave. And yet he cries here, which to me then tells me that the place.
[00:12:14] Of lament that, let me just think about this. I come from a, a Christian tradition that lament. And pain and suffering. We're not something we ever reflected on. It was always the pursuit of joy and happiness. And here we have Jesus pausing and a, maybe you can be my safety net here, John, maybe I'm throwing things in here, but Jesus has a moment of lament and grief.
[00:12:43] For a situation that he knows he's about to solve. Which to me, I almost want to say this validates the place of lament in your life. It validates the place of grief. If anybody ever says, oh no, you're a Christian. You shouldn't. I went to a funeral, John once and somebody. Don't anybody cry because we knew this person's with God.
[00:13:04] And fortunately I was down to speak at the funeral. So in a very gentle way, I corrected this in my sermon that, Jesus went to a funeral and, Jesus stood by a two-man cried that if your Christianity doesn't have the breadth. To cope with lament and sadness and crying, then, then come to a text like this and realize that if Jesus can cry in advance of doing this miracle, I think you are allowed to have space for lament for sadness for, for, for weeping in your life.
[00:13:43] I mean, I mean, am I hanging too much on the shortest verses the Bible, John?
[00:13:48] John: No, I don't think so. I don't think so. And I think again, a big picture understanding what John's about. John is writing this so that we will believe that Jesus is the son of God. We know his, his God and flesh agenda. We understand he's trying to get us to see that Jesus is the word. The word was with God and the word that was good.
[00:14:14] And yet at the same time, he's presenting a profound insight into the humanity, the tenderness, the compassion, the grace, that grace and truth that flesh and glory it's all in that makes. So he is a boat to call Lazarus out of the grief. And yet the tears are streaming donors.
[00:14:37] David: yes.
[00:14:37] John: find, I just find it profoundly attractive.
[00:14:41] Honestly, I, if I'd have been standing in that crowd, I'd have been blubbering with them, and, and whether I knew Lazarus or not, it's it's to see this month. Standing moved deeply. I mean, move deeply. I mean, troubled, agitated there there's something physical and emotional and psychological going on inside, and that is so strong that it erupts in, in tears. Tears that catch the attention. Now, remember everybody's crying. I mean, there's probably professional mourners and the group that, you know, So the tears are flowing and yet his tears get the attention of the crowd. See how he loved him. Something. Can I, can I say this, David, there's something that feels authentic.
[00:15:33] True. Sincere, real about this. And I find this in Jesus. Profoundly attractive. I am attracted not only to the one who can raise the dead, but for the one who weeks for the living. I mean,
[00:15:53] David: yes.
[00:15:54] John: I, I I'm, I am moved by that and I I'm delighted in a God who has the power to change situations and also weep with our brokenness.
[00:16:09] There aren't many gods who can do that. And, and I love that. And I'm so glad John did not Rob that out. I'm so glad that John gives us this explosion of emotion before this amazing moment, because. I suspect even as Jesus prayers to the father on calls last recite that the tears are still in his eyes and streaming the tracks of them streaming donor's fierce and under something, the word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
[00:16:42] And we beheld his glory. There is the glory of the moment of the resurrection and yet the humanity of his tears. And I find that I, Yeah.
[00:16:53] I find that relentless. I am so moved by that. I, I want to follow this man to the ends of the earth. I want to follow you. You know what I mean? When I look at this man and this story, I want to, wherever you're going, I want to go with you because this is the sort of person I want to be hanging around.
[00:17:15] The one who has. Raise the dead, but weep for the living. And I love that. I, Yeah.
[00:17:21] I'm struggling to control me on emotion, thinking about it. So.
[00:17:25] David: Well, this there's a, I'm trying to recall, John. I'm trying to recall the, the, the quote, so an account. So forgive me, but. There's a thought out there about create your God who would enter the world via a womb. And he, the, the earthiness of this, if that's as polite away as I can kind of, describe that.
[00:17:52] But the, the, the, the human birth process is is anything but clean and detached and distant. And can I say this gently for what we would consider sanctified in that sense? There's, there's, there's there's pain, there's screaming.
[00:18:12] There's there's mass. That's what, so when we have this phrase, which you read. At Christmas time, we're coming up to Christmas time and you'll, you'll go to a, a 12 lessons, Carroll service, and somebody will open the Carol service with, and the word became flesh and made his dwelling amongst us.
[00:18:32] And if you can, you'll be, it you'll be sat in a clean church hall and it will be very Serenas a moment. Just try and remember that this moment that they've just sentenced within the word became flesh was anything, but. Clean serene and what we would recognize as a holy moment. And yet the God of the world says, this is the holy moment.
[00:18:55] And of course, if you've been present at the birth of a child, which some people have been privileged enough to be, it is a holy moment, even though it's not like any other holy moment, you were ever a part of this. Earth and dirt and blood and snot so, so the idea when you were talking to John, I was listening to you.
[00:19:14] I was, I had my racking through my brain of all the Jesus movies I've ever seen and the raising of Lazarus and Jesus is never a snotty mess when he says that. Come forth, and I'm a bearded man. This is gastrin is that Jesus likely would have had to beard as well. And if you have a good cry, you can get yourself in a right mess with beard and you're painting this picture and I'm imagining Jesus, this kind of.
[00:19:39] Calling Lazarus come forth and I'm loving that John I'm loving that image, not of Jesus that looks like you just went for a, a good hairstyle before he arrived at the tomb and he's, air's blowing beautifully in the wind, but, but somebody coming from a moment of mourning and grief and lament and and I think that, I would encourage anyone to spiral off with this sort of stuff, as much as they want to.
[00:20:03] Jesus has raised in the Psalms as part of my devotional life, I've been working through the lectionary and the daily office at which involves engaging with several Psalms in the course of a day. And so many of the Psalms, this as well, John is so, rooted in the dark and the difficult and the painful.
[00:20:24] John: and
[00:20:24] David: I'm being constantly struck with, on a daily basis is how often that's not my experience of Christian worship, for example, that, that in my church tradition, so often worship is all about the, the, the major notes, never the minor keys. If that's a way of saying it, then. And I think there, I don't want people to lose that sense of the reason there's so much lament in the Bible is because it's okay.
[00:20:49] It's okay. To be sad. It's okay to feel pain and grieve from that pain and there's, and, but then there's also this beautiful part of the Psalm story. And the biblical story is that one of the reasons it's okay, Paul talks about us not, but it's not grieving like pagans, we don't grieve like people that have no hope, because one of the reasons we can grieve as Christians is because of.
[00:21:09] Incredible story, which we're about to see unfold in J in verse 38 onwards. Aren't we? This is story of, of resurrections coming.
[00:21:20] John: Indeed. Indeed. I think that's part of the paradox of, of holy lament. I think there is a sense in which we can lament and yet lament and hope
[00:21:30] Is it saccharine the prophet who describes God's people as prisoners of hope and under is this, this beautiful understanding that that even in the midst of our dark.
[00:21:41] There can be hope and even our grieving we can grieve in the night, but joy comes in the morning, there is this beautiful paradox, prisoners of hope, absolutely gorgeous. And yeah.
[00:21:54] it's, it's a beautiful tension of joy and sorrow that we walk in a, in a context of fifth.
[00:22:00] David: So then I just want to throw out a piece of advice if you're tracking with John and I so far, we then get to verse 38 in chapter 11, and I'm going to suggest to you the only way. And I say only, and then people can ignore me completely, but the only way to read John 11 and really appreciate it as close to fully as we can.
[00:22:25] Is to get yourself two Bibles and and so, so you have to get one Bible. If you don't have two Bibles, you can always jump on the internet and read it up or get it on your Bible software or something. You need one Bible open at John 11, verse 38, and you need another Bible open at John 20. And verse one and what you'll have next yourself as John and I dive into this next section of the text, you basically have the raising of Lazarus story and on one side and the Jesus' resurrection story on the other side.
[00:22:58] And actually what I'm seeing is quite important there, because even as I say that that's not strictly to true because John. Isn't the Jesus' resurrection story. John 20 is the disciples discovering that Jesus has been raised, but there's almost definitely, and I hope you're going to agree with us.
[00:23:17] John is lining these two stories up next to each other and drawing contrasts and alertness to. So that you're going to really, really enjoy, enjoy this. You're you're happy with that. As a way of jumping into John 11 and John 20
[00:23:34] John: Let's do it. Let's do it. Go for it. Lead the
[00:23:37] David: so the arrive at the tomb, and if you've got both your Bibles open next to each other, or maybe you want to grab a notepad and when you're reading it yourself, make a little checklist.
[00:23:46] So Jesus comes to the, to me still deeply moved to going back to the point that John, you, just don't forget that this is a very emotional moment. And look at it's a cave with a stone laid across the entrance, but, but when we in John 20, when they arrive at the two. The stone has been removed from the entrance.
[00:24:07] So, so, so there's this little parallel, right? Even from the omen. So, so they come to Lazarus, the student is a stone in the way they come to Jesus he's tomb and it turns out the resurrection has already happened. Right. So, so that, that, that's kind of interesting. And so Jesus has to call takeaway the storm.
[00:24:26] I mean, I love that little parallel there of just simply that the opening contrast of one tomb has a stone. One tomb has no stone. The people have arrived. They have to move the stone away. By the time they get to Jesus, th something has already happened to the store. Do you like that, John? I
[00:24:40] John: Oh, beautiful. Yeah. I love that. Absolutely love that. And, and and, and the sense that the agency of the resurrection in. In John 20 is, is a greater power. And you have a human agency here at ruling the stone away, but someone has already removed this stone and and prepared the way for the resurrection, which, which we're going to enjoy.
[00:25:04] So I do, I love that little contrast. Absolutely beautiful. They're beautiful.
[00:25:08] David: But even just going back to your point about the earthiness and the humanness of this story. So Jesus has taken away the stone Martha objects, but for about the most earthy reason that you possibly can. I'm going to say this here, John. It's not often that I see this because I do like modern translations, but I don't think there's a modern translation out there.
[00:25:35] Beats the king James on this one. So, so you get in the NIV, you get the Lord said. The sister of the dead man, by this time, there is a bad odor because he's been there four days. And to that beautiful piece of English prose, by this time, there's a bad order. The king James gives you Lord. He stinketh.
[00:25:56] John: Oh, it's been it's listen. It's been years since I've read that into king James. I was raised on the king James. And as soon as you said that I knew where you were going and that's where I couldn't stop laughing because I remember that as a kid, he thinking absolutely it's classic. It's absolutely classic.
[00:26:11] He stinketh Lord, come on now.
[00:26:13] David: I've just taken you right the way back to Sunday school in Belfast. Haven't I,
[00:26:17] John: Yeah, you absolutely have to memory verse competitions to a Sunday school. Oh yeah. I,
[00:26:23] did Dr. DIA volun, who was a lecturer and our Bible college. When I went there, who's known having blessed them. And David used to say, he said, you are rich boys. If you cut you open you'll bleed Bible. And and it was because like everywhere I went, boys were good.
[00:26:40] Sunday school. We literally, there were huge praises, if you could memorize whole chunks of the text. And that's, you, you really literally brought me back to there and he stayed. That's funny. I'd forgot all about that. That's so cool. And it's absolutely so good. I love it. Yeah.
[00:26:57] Come on now, the old key GM's has got to get a mention in there.
[00:26:59] That's brilliant. And of course it's, it's probably worth some of our listeners may, may well be aware of this. And again, we're trying to touch on things that they, that people may or may not know, but of course, Lazarus has been in the grid in, in the, in the tomb for Dez. So, so th this is. This is referenced twice actually in the story.
[00:27:20] So when something like that culturally gets referenced, it's always worth well. Why, why is that reference? Why are they mentioning for Dez? And, and it's just to help our listeners that usually Jewish burial took place within 24 hours of, of the death. But other sources sort of indicate that there was a belief that the soul hovered over the body.
[00:27:44] For three days after Dane and therefore the fourth day meant you were really dead sort of thing. So now I'm exaggerating that slightly and we are leaning into a sort of, it's not a biblical idea that there's nothing in the biblical text that would support that. But clearly the fact that John references for days, a couple of times means It's playing in everybody's mind.
[00:28:07] And also, I think John is leaning into shoe wives from a Jewish point of view. He really, really, really was dead. And and therefore this is not a fluky resurrection. It's not like Lazarus has revived. He really was dead.
[00:28:19] David: In the absence of good, modern medicines. It's quite likely that somebody who's in particularly bad state can end up being thought to be dead and maybe not actually quite be dead yet. And it's worth maybe mentioning just to people that are attending. How would you wish burial works?
[00:28:34] And this actually will help you understand aspects of the, of the Jesus story as well, is that the, the, the burial has, has a multi-stage process to that. So you embalm, you, you wrap the body up and then you put it in often you would put it in a family tomb of some sorts. And the family tomb, if you had the, where would the.
[00:28:57] The facilities to be able to have a family to you, there would be some sort of. Place in the tomb that you would lay a body. So you would wrap that body up and you would lay it there. And then people would return within a few days of the death of this and laying of this person in there. And they would then involve various embalming processes that would go on.
[00:29:20] And the idea was this was to allow. The body to decompose in such a way that eventually you ended up with just the bones of, of the person at which point you would then return again to the tomb and you would sort of tidy up these bones and they would get packed into a, some sort of container, box parts or something that they would then be shelved somewhere in the tombs.
[00:29:45] Hence the phrase sort of buried with your ancestors. And then, and then. Basis then cleared out, waiting for the next family member to die, who will go through this, this process as well? Interestingly, of course, in Jesus's situation, he's put in a new tomb. So, so there's nobody else has ever been in there before.
[00:30:03] But what we're seeing is a very classic, how do we know there's a bad order because everybody's encountered what happens when you go and approach your body. That that has is early in this stage of, of this, of this decomposition process.
[00:30:17] So, so there's the, I just add that more just for the kind of historical understanding of what this is not the same as, digging up, digging up a grave that we're encountering here.
[00:30:28] So, so Martha comes back with this, there's a bad order. Jesus returns then to say, but did I not tell you that if you believe you'll see the glory of God, so he reconnects the whole story back together again. And. And then we get this prayer from Jesus. Do you want to make any comments on the, on the prayer, John
[00:30:46] John: Well only from the point of view, I mean, I think it's absolutely, it's gorgeous. It says, the father, I thank you that you have heard me. So the implication is that what Jesus is about to do, he's already. It connected to the purpose of the father and which leans into the stuff we've touched already about Jesus doing the will of the father going where the father goes, saying what the father says, et cetera.
[00:31:12] And you get this lovely idea. And I love this. I knew that you always have. But I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe you sent me. So I, again, there's a lovely connection to Lazarus has died for, sort of the glory of God will be manifest who send the man or his parents that he was born blind.
[00:31:35] Well, nobody, this is for the manifestation of the glory. So you get this pulling back to this idea that what you're about to see. And I even overhearing my prayer with the father at this, this insight into intimacy with the father connecting Jesus to the Lord, to, to God
[00:31:54] is, is. Creating an opportunity for the crowd to be drawn into not just what is about to happen, but Hyatt's happening and who's doing it.
[00:32:04] And I think that's, that's an important in St. Jesus could have very easy prayer to pray that prayer, or as we've seen from other miracle stories, not proud at all, he just could have stepped forward. And what, but, but I think this prayer is as much. The, not just the intimacy with the father, but revealing the processes to the crowd of how Jesus works with the father.
[00:32:25] David: Yes. Yes. And, and that that that's for me is, is, is, is, is really kind of important connections to, to really at some level where the sign fits into the whole narrative of John's gospel, then as well, we're seeing Jesus we're, we're seeing Jesus on point aren't we we're we're seeing, we're seeing him work his way through things.
[00:32:48] And I was even. In this sort of scene around some of the language that we see from Jesus back in John nine as well. We're seeing this prayer functioning almost as a reminder of all the things that Jesus has been journey as through in this gospel. And even this, I was noticing in the Greek that the app systolic language of, they will believe that you sent me at Bustelo, that, that we're going to see that language.
[00:33:16] Some real importance at various points in the conversations that are going to come after this miracle. Don't we, the sense of the sending of Jesus is, is really significant. Isn't it?
[00:33:27] John: It is, as the father has sent me. So I send you and you, you're starting to see the, the sense of, and of course it?
[00:33:35] leans back into the, sort of the Johanna and idea that we've reflected on, common C common, C common, see this, this sense of once we have received something from, in this case, Jesus, from the father.
[00:33:49] Or once we received something from Jesus, we go and communicate that to others. Jesus says to the disciples in John chapter one, verse 39, common, see where I am common, see what I'm doing. Phillip says the Nathaniel common. See the woman of Samaria says to her friends are well to the villagers.
[00:34:08] Common. And of course, even within the John taxed here, you, you, when Jesus asks where the tomb is, they say common. See, so it's really, really interesting little connector. There were other, it's almost like in the prayer of Jesus. We are being invaded to common. See we're being invaded into let me show you if you've got ice. If you're prepared, that's go back to the prologue. If you're prepared to recognize if you're prepared to accept, if you're prepared to believe, if you're prepared to see what's really going on here, then, then you will receive the right to become children of God.
[00:34:44] David: Mm.
[00:34:45] John: And so I, as we see a little bit later on in the chapter, there's a reaction to this incredible miracle where many believe, and there's also a reaction where a whole bunch of people hardened their heart to Jesus on this issue.
[00:34:59] So he came to his own and his own didn't recognize, didn't say so, even though they're being invited to come and see uncommon, literally here. In this respect
[00:35:11] some are going to see and hear and some are not. And I think it's a beautiful, there's a beautiful, poetic connection. I think through that with, with John and what he's doing in there.
[00:35:20] David: So they're standing in front of this tube where it appears well, they're stood there. The stone has been taken away and. That Jesus calls out in a loud voice. So think about this contrast between chapter 20, which we have opened in one Bible and capture 11 here. When they arrive at the tomb for Jesus, that the stone is already rolled away.
[00:35:42] The stone gets rolled away for Lazarus, but there's a really interesting piece that goes on that if you just pay attention to John carefully, you'll notice that Jesus, the stone in John 20 isn't rolled away to let Jesus out the stone in John 20 is rolled away to let the disciples in. Whereas this stone gets rolled away to let Lazarus actually come out of the tomb.
[00:36:05] Right?
[00:36:05] So now think, think about that. And so we've got this already. These stories are similar, but they're diverging from each other. Jesus then calls out in a loud voice Lazarus come out. I can't help, but a quick rewind back to chapter five and the miracle in chapter five,
[00:36:21] verse 28, do not be amazed for a time is coming when all who are in their grades.
[00:36:26] We'll hear his voice again, this, this web of connections in John's gospels. So we're about to see somebody in a grave is going to hear the voice of Jesus. And then you get verse 44, which is possibly up there with one of the strangest scenes in in scripture. And just notice we talked in John chapter nine, about how.
[00:36:50] The man who was born blind remains known as the blind man, the whole way through the story. And this story Lazarus has been referred to as Lazarus the whole way through. But now, as he walks out of the tomb, he's referred to as the dead man,
[00:37:04] John: man,
[00:37:05] David: which is I think again, just beautiful Johanna in irony. The one point in the man's not dead, he he's described as the dead man of.
[00:37:18] John: That is so cool. It's so cool.
[00:37:20] David: So the dead man comes out, but notice this piece his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen and a cloth around his face. Okay. So, you know where I'm going to go with this, John doing
[00:37:32] it. So do. you want to take it in there? You, you, you, you
[00:37:35] John: Yeah, sure. I it's absolutely gorgeous. So if you jump into chapter two, Of John verse six, then Simon Peter came along behind him. That's John and went straight into the, tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around G. Had the cloth was still laying in its place, separate from the linen.
[00:38:04] It's just gorgeous. Isn't it? It's an, and also as a, as a person, who's a tidy freak. I love the tidiness of that. That's really beautiful. I'm really appreciating the fact that Jesus was extremely tiny in, in putting things away properly. But yes. Yeah. Cool.
[00:38:20] David: a couple of things did just own that, that, that junk. So, so Simon, Peter, and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved. Now, I'm just going to leave that hanging out there, because if you remember what we talked about in the last episode, I'm not going to say anything more about it. Other than to see if my random hair brain theory in the last episode has any weight to a tall that just makes this story even more interesting.
[00:38:46] So, so Simon, Peter, and the disciple, the one Jesus loved, they run into the tomb together, as you say, but now a couple of things you can see here, the organization, the tidiness of Jesus he's tomb. What that tells you is. The a very practical level. This doesn't appear to have been a body that's been robbed.
[00:39:03] Cause you don't, you don't tidy up after yourself. When you go into robbed by a body from a tomb that's being guarded by Roman soldiers. So the fact that the, the but also what's interesting is the cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen as well as, so there's almost this sense that.
[00:39:22] John: that,
[00:39:22] David: Body, maybe I'm stretching here, John, but the body has been removed somehow from this cloth. Now, bear in mind, we're going to see Jesus again shortly, and he's able to transition between this world and the next, because he's appearing in rooms and disappearing from rooms. So I don't think we're not imagining.
[00:39:43] I don't think we're imagining somebody come in, taken off the grave. Crews folded them all up neatly and and, and put them back where they were. I think you imagining a scene where somehow our body has disappeared from being within these linen cloths. I mean, I'm not, I don't think I'm stretching it from the resurrection story.
[00:40:05] John: works for me. Absolutely works for me. And, and it fits well with, with other aspects of the resurrection. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:40:12] David: But then you've got this flip side of that complete contrast to Lazarus has to kind of stumble these way out of the tomb, looking like some sort of extract from the Adams family or, or, or something like that, that he still wrapped. In the, and the cloth is over his face. I can't help. But think John is drawing an absolutely direct parallel here that Lazarus has Jesus.
[00:40:37] Call him out the stones open to let him out. Jesus, the stone is open to let us in to see that the grave couldn't hold him. And yes, Lazarus is a resurrection miracle, but Jesus is embarrassment. He's already told it to us a few verses before in chapter 11.
[00:40:55] The resurrection and the life. So there's, there's this double little connection going on there, which I just think is phenomenal.
[00:41:02] John: It is, it is an, and of course the, the other little sort of just finishing touch for that in some ways, for me, it just at a human level is that. Has to help Lazarus out of the gray of clothes.
[00:41:15] David: Yes.
[00:41:16] John: So-so take off the grave clothes and let them go. So a lower life, he is still restricted.
[00:41:22] And of course the John 20 resurrection term however Jesus did it and I, I totally comfortable with the idea of him as it were disappearing or coming through those. He doesn't need any assistance in having degree of clothes taken off and he's, he's able to deal with that by himself. So, so again, just that.
[00:41:44] Find a little contrast, which I think is just absolutely beautiful there. I have to say and I couldn't resist this and I'm going to throw it in on behalf of my Sunday school teacher. But my Sunday school teacher, when, when he taught me this story he, he said this. And it stuck in my mind as a child, you know what he said, some cool stuff and other stuff.
[00:42:03] I can't remember half of it, but he said this, he said Jesus said Lazarus come forth. Cause if he had to say, just said, come forth, all the dead bodies would have came home. No, I I'm not, I'm not sure. You want to go all the way with it, but
[00:42:17] David: I,
[00:42:18] should have quality quality preaching right there.
[00:42:20] John: oh, it's, it's, it's it'll preach for you, but, but it was, it stuck in my mind as a, as a boy.
[00:42:27] Wow. Jesus was so powerful that actually he needed the name, the dead money was going to raise within that. But, but, but aside from that little theory, I do love the intimacy of the moment largely. I mean, he just, he just could have said come forth. He just could have showed it come to life. But he NIMS Lazarus.
[00:42:48] There's a, there's an intimacy, even in that. And I think perhaps leaning, leaning into this. The the, the, the wheat bean of Jesus, the deeply moved to Jesus that this is, this is not just forgive me for saying this. This sounds horrible at this, not just Jesus, raising somebody from the dead, but there is an intimacy in this one.
[00:43:06] Jesus has raised other people from the dead and not named them. And we've already covered those, the little girl, that little girl. To the, to the young man who was the only son of the widow in Luke seven, he just speaks get up. But to Lazarus, he calls his name. And I think that, again, touches on that beautiful intimacy of
[00:43:29] this moment that he's calling Lazarus, his friend out of the grave.
[00:43:34] And it's and it's beautiful. yeah, I love that.
[00:43:36] David: and, and I can this web of John's gospel, cause you've got. The illusion back to chapter five, the day is coming when the dead will hear the voice. And now I, sometimes I wonder if that's why, if that's why in verse 44 Lazarus is called the dead man. Like I wonder if that's literally, John's way of trying to just remind you of that passage because the dead will hear his voice and Jesus calls out in a loud voice and the dead.
[00:44:04] I heard him. Okay. I love that. But then just think of a web pushing forwards Jesus he's prayer that they may believe that you sent me. Right. So now all the way back to John chapter 20. So finally. Verse eight. It says John tab 10 verse eight, finally, the other disciple. That's the one who Jesus loves whoever that might be.
[00:44:27] Finally, the other disciple who reached the tomb first also goes inside and he saw and believed. So, so there's this sense of this people. The resurrection is bringing belief so we can, we can raise, let me just be a bit poetic. Yeah. We can raise water into wine. We can raise dead people back to life. We can raise the, the, the man who can't walk to be able to walk, get up and walk.
[00:44:59] We can raise the, the, the site of a man who was born blind. We can laser raise Lazarus from a tomb because Jesus is the resurrection and the life. And eventually, and one of the things I love about John 20 verse eight, which I think is just beautiful. He saw. And he believed
[00:45:17] John: Yes.
[00:45:18] David: what's brilliant is what did he see?
[00:45:21] He saw nothing. And, and, and, and I think it's just beautiful because Jesus is then going to say to Thomas, oh, by the way, bless it is him who does not see the beliefs at the end. It just, it just wrapped. I mean, for all of the things I want to say about John's gospel, simply as a piece. Uh, Writing the way he ties this story together is phenomenal.
[00:45:48] I can only assume he must have had the biggest whiteboard ever to plan all of this language to make sure that everybody can tie all of these pieces together, because I don't want you to miss what Jesus is doing here. It's just stunning. Isn't it.
[00:46:05] John: It is totally, it is. Absolutely. And, and again, hopefully our listeners will hear the connectedness of this story, so it stands alone. Oh my goodness. Does it stand alone? We, you could, you could stand up and preach and teach on John chapter 11 without knowing anything else that's going on in the gospel of John.
[00:46:29] But of course, John doesn't design it.
[00:46:31] and doesn't tell. And doesn't rate it as a standalone. He wants us to see all the connecting ideas. He wants us to let the threads run together because this is a pivotal moment in the gospel. The tool of the gospel changes from this moment on the trajectory of the gospel changes.
[00:46:51] The behavior of Jesus changes from this moment on. And we get, we get an acceleration towards the climactic moment of Jesus' life. And it seems to me, it feels to me as I read John 11, that this is the, a massive tipping point moment within all of that. And John is doing that by design and leading us to this, this grip climactic and to his gospel, which is absolutely.
[00:47:18] David: And there's just, did you spot John? Just one closing comment. Did you spot the language of his Jesus? His final statement in verse 44, it's a translated take off the grave clothes, but the Greek life. The grave clothes, that word that we've seen pop up so many times loose the grave clothes. And let him go just like at some level, like isn't that the gospel isn't that, if Jesus is the resurrection and the life, then the message of Jesus to everyone is loose the grave clothes and let him, let him go.
[00:47:57] just love. I love that. So, John, that's it for our miracle season.
[00:48:02] We have loved talking about miracles. We've got some exciting stuff we're working on in the pipeline. So we'll keep tracking us on social media. We're gonna let you know what we're doing on a few things. And but thanks for listening to us.
[00:48:14] As we talk about miracles, John, I've enjoyed it and I can't wait to start something new with you. Very soon.
[00:48:22] John: Yeah, bless your mind. It's been absolutely stunning. Amazing. My heart, as they said on the way to a mass, the two disables, my heart has burned within me. As we've talked with Jesus, it's been absolutely stunning. Bless your man.
[00:48:35] David: That's awesome. Thanks so much.
[00:48:37] Outro: Okay, so that is it for this episode and this. Season, and we hope that you have enjoyed. What you listened to today and also throughout the 20 episodes about miracles. We are going to be back in two weeks time with a couple of episodes thinking about Christmas as that. Approaches, and we hope that you are going to look forward to them. If you want to get in touch with us about anything we've said throughout this series, then don't forget. You can reach out to us on podcast@twotexts.com and you can also like, and follow the two techs podcast on Facebook, Instagram.
[00:49:15] Twitter and YouTube. You can listen to all of our podcasts from this season and the previous season on parables. Over on www.twotexts.com or wherever you get your podcasts, but that is it for today. We hope you'll be with us again in two weeks time as we approach Christmas. But until then, goodbye.