Suddenly...A Woman | Miracles 10

In which John and David explore an encounter between Jesus, a woman and some synagogue leaders. How do we treat people, and  do we let our own views and opinions get in the way of doing good?

• Click Here to read the text from Luke 13:10-17. 

Episode Outline

• 1:13 Luke 13
• 8:36 Some thoughts on translation
• 14:24 Jesus and vulnerability
• 23:11 Mary, not your average teenager
• 28:49 The touch of Jesus
• 34:39 Sabbath rules
• 42:05 The shame of it all
• 49:47 From miracle to parable

Episode 27 of the Two Texts Podcast | Meaning of Miracles Series 10

If you want to get in touch about something in the podcast you can reach out on podcast@twotexts.com or by liking and following the Two Texts podcast on Facebook, Instagramand Twitter. We're also on YouTube. If you enjoy the podcast, we’d love it if you left a review or comment where you’re listening from – and if you really enjoyed it, why not share it with a friend?

Music by Woodford Music (c) 2021

Chapters

• 1:13 Luke 13
• 8:36 Some thoughts on translation
• 14:24 Jesus and vulnerability
• 23:11 Mary, not your average teenager
• 28:49 The touch of Jesus
• 34:39 Sabbath rules
• 42:05 The shame of it all
• 49:47 From miracle to parable

Transcript

Transcript Auto-Generated by Descript.com

Hi there. I'm David Harvey and I'm here with John Andrews and this is the two texts podcast. And this podcast with two friends in two different countries. Here every two weeks talking about two different texts from the Bible. This is our second series about the miracles of Jesus. And today you're listening to episode 10.  

And it's called suddenly. A woman.  

[00:00:33] John: So David, we are in our wonderful miracle series. And in our previous episode, we looked at the raising of the widow's son in Luke chapter seven. And we referenced then that this actually was part of four unique miracles in the gospel of Luke that are all about margins. 

And here in Luke 13, we have the second of those four. And it's got a woman at the center of the story again. So, so we've got this beautiful story of the healing of a woman in a synagogue. And we're picking this up at Luke chapter 13, verse 10. Do you wanna, do you wanna read that for us?  

[00:01:13] David: Yes. , absolutely. I do. And so, we're Luke chapter 13 on a Sabbath, Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues. I know a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for 18 years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her woman, you are set free from your infirmity. 

And then he put his hands on her and immediately she straightened up and prayed. Indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath. The synagogue leader said to the people that, I'm sorry, I'm laughing at this story because it's just quite something, isn't it.  

[00:01:58] John: It is quite something.  

[00:02:00] David: I've just tried to imagine being in this situation and deciding to come back with this comment. 

So indignant, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue leader said to the people, there are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days. Not on the Sabbath. The Lord answered him. You hypocrites doesn't each of you on the Sabbath, untie your ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water. 

Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan has kept boned for 18 long years. Be set free on the Sabbath from what baby. And when he said this, all his opponents were humiliated, but the people were delighted with all the wonderful things he was doing. 

[00:02:52] John: Wow. Yes, Yes 

Overcome with the sense of humor and irony within that. It is a, it is a a fascinating, fascinating story. Not just of course, because of the miracle itself, which my goodness, that will keep us occupied for a while. But the reaction to it, the reaction is quite staggering. And of course, some of our listeners may know some of the backstory as to why that might be the case, but, but we, we may need to unpack that a little, but why on earth would a synagogue griller be giving off a Jesus because he heals on the Sabbath. 

But but, but my goodness, what a, what a story here of recovery again, leaning into our idea of margins, David, this, this woman has on, be marginal legs for the guts of two deck kids. So whatever is specifically her ill mint is it has undoubtedly marginalized her from her society and Chet strikingly. 

She finds herself in a place where Jesus is. And I find that the old part of that really. Fascinating within this I, I, in, in my NIV version of the Bible, it sort of says that Jesus was teaching in the synagogue and then verse 11 says, and a woman was there. So, so this is where I'm going to start with a bit of a challenge on this because I, I, again, I love the NIV, so please make goodness the scholarship has gone into that is amazing. 

And I, I'm a peak me in comparison to these amazing scholars. So, w what I'm about to say, I say it with Kara, but I think that's an unhelpful translation for, for a number of reasons. I think if you look at the, sort of more literalness of the translation, it could read and behold. Okay. And I think, no, I think that's absolutely in line with the context, because the context is she's been 18 years sick it 10 years, unclean it. 

10 years marginalized. No. If you were living for 18 years on the margins of your society, I'm fairly certain, you wouldn't be rocking up to the one place in your village. That's going to constantly remind you that you are on claim.  

I, and I have a theory that she's not there at the start of the synagogue service, but she appears. As Jesus gets up to speak. Now I've done a wee bit of research on this in terms of, cause I think that's nuanced in the text. Right. But, but I think the synagogue service itself leans into this. So if you think about the order of the synagogue service, there were sort of six elements to it. Okay. So you get element number one, the litany. 

So that was a series of prayers, blessing God for his love towards his people. Then you would have the you'd move into the confession, confessing God's fearfulness and our sin. Then we would move into intercessory, prayer related to that confession. Then a scripture reading from whatever part of the law of the prophets we were in at that point on then, then the teaching this course. 

Okay. That's element number five, element number six is the benefit. Okay, so, so, so element number five. Now imagine this David, so Jesus gets up to teach and then she appears, okay. Now if you're prepared to read it like that, then the next bit sort of where it says having seen her exactly the same free as ology. 

If our listeners have heard our previous podcast, where ed, he having seen the widow, we've got the same sort of language having seen her. Now there's two ways to interpret that he's either seen her because she's in the synagogue from the beginning or as he gets up to speak, she appears at the door. Having seen her now that that's my sort of dramatic introduction it's as most, most dramatic, I could be my most dramatic introduction to this story, because I think this is dramatic. I think this is why the synagogue, rulers reacting, not just because of the helium, but because hold on, I'm on a moment. 

This woman is in our synagogue and softens going on here. And I think this is a deeply, deeply uncomfortable moment because she suddenly appears maybe she hears the young rabbi. Who's, who's just bring in the kingdom is in her synagogue. And she rocks up to the door bent over, maybe not even in the synagogue, but standing at the door and seen her. 

And, and I, I think there that that's hope I'm not stretching it too far, but I think that's there. I think the translation of on a woman was there almost gives the impression she's been there from the beginning. And I am suggesting she's not, I think she comes in as Jesus teaches because she's turning up for Jesus, having been a marginalized unclean woman for almost two decades.  

[00:08:31] David: Hm. 
 

[00:08:32] John: Does that, does that sit with you or am I out on a limb? What do you ,  

[00:08:36] David: I think you're, you're you're right, I mean, I, you've not said it as a negative about translators, right. And I mean, you can read about this extensively online. If anyone was ever interested, there are. Theories around translation, not just in terms of how do you translate words, but what approach are you taking to translate the word?  

The two approaches are a word for word, way of translation. And then these what they call dynamic equivalents. And often people like you and me, we get questions after church services all the time. What's the best translation. And of course the question of what's the best translation is hugely complex. 

Isn't it? Because, well, what do you mean by best? And some people assume that word for word translation is best, but quite a few times word for word translation would be unintelligible because word order works differently. And the other problem is sometimes words carry multiple meanings. Don't they? So, so it's like, how do you make the choice to decide what word to trends late  

let me just throw this as an example, John, three 16 for God. So loved the world. And we always tend to think of that is that Saul loved is a way of seeing this is how much God loved the world so much, right. Saw means so much, but in the Greek it could also mean this is the way that God loved the world. 

So it could, it couldn't, it might not mean volume. It might mean manner or method. Now my suspicion is that John and John three 16 means both of those things. God loved the world so much that he loved the world this way. But as a translator, you can, I just have to make a decision as to which 1:00 AM I going to sort of lean towards. 

So you you know this John, but I think it's worth, always bearing that. I mean, that's. really important if you want to study taxed properly that, actually having several translations is really helpful to see how do the other translators deal with the nuances on this tax. So all of that, then to see that a lot of English translations break up this passage in kind of unusual ways, right? 

So that in the NIV, it's a run-on sentence from verse 10 through verse 11 on a Sabbath, Jesus was teaching and one of the synagogues and a warmness there, who'd been crippled by a spirit for 18 years, but you Greek sentence structure goes, Jesus was one of those Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. 

Then the new sentence begins, but old, a woman who had a spirit of uncleanness for, for 18 years, and, and was bent over. It says, and, and and that's all one sentence. So, so the, so the Greek sentence goes behold, a woman who had a spirit of illness for 18 years was bent over and couldn't straighten up and tall. 

It kind of groups it all in together, but there's definitely the drama of the passage. John is there is this, this the Greek Chi it do it. It's a, it's a punchy start to it sentences. And I think you're, if you were how would I say it if John, I don't know where John came from. If Luke was writing stage notes, there would be, this would be the entrance of the one built, a woman she's there and you see it, you see it in a few of the texts. 

You see the language of this often happens with demons, appears like if we hold a demon, and behold, somebody was, it definitely implies, something has shifted in the narrative. Something has, someone has appeared just now. And and it's, it's different, right? So I I'm completely endorsing and it's very for the long rant about about translation. 

But I think it's important for us to know that that when we in a show like this will sometimes critique translation, we're not saying this translation is terrible and, and even the translators themselves will tell you translations just one part there's a lot of exploration has to go on. So it's good study and research to look at other translations, to read some commentaries and to see you. 

Okay. It's not that this translation was trying to obscure things. It's just the, they made decisions to try and make it read well for us. And we grew up, we've all got that friend, who says, well, it was a really good movie, but you need to watch it in the original language with subtitles because it's better. 

And we're like, what? Okay. And maybe we're those friends for you just now that are going okay. There's just more here. Go and spend a little bit of time looking after it. But can I jump in onto that? John is this language of uncertainty and the vulnerability here, but hold a woman who'd been crippled by a spirit of weakness or disabling spirit as Daniel is, is, is, is, is some sort of incapacity for 18 years. 

I read that as, as, as Lukin way. Of saying we don't actually really know what's wrong with this lady. Right. So w there's something affecting her that our current medical knowledge can't make sense of? It's interesting actually for me, Luke chapter 13, 10 through 17, that we're looking at today is one of the passages that helps you realize that Luke really was a doctor. 

Some of his language is, is for its time, quite precise medical observations that he's making, but, but this language of, of a spirit of, and again, I'm not trying to suggest that it's very clear in the story that there's something evil is impacting this lady, but from the observer's point of view, this lady is bent over and can't straighten up. 

And uh, we don't know why, but actually something beyond us is, is affecting her. So there's real intense vulnerability here that I think is just worth noting for this. 

[00:14:24] John: Absolutely. And I think that, that if you imagine the image of that vulnerability leans into the dramatic newness of this moment, so this woman's not hiding, she's, if she's bent over double and can't straighten up. So, so whether you believe she's already in the synagogue, or if you're going to sort of follow our bread, crumbs and lean into the fact she may be appearing at the door or at least making some sort of entrance at that stage. 

It's not just dramatic because she's turning up. It's dramatic because she can't straighten up. She's bent over double. So she will be in many ways, sort of creaking her neck to strengthen those gathered in the synagogue and Luca Jesus. So, so you have, I mean, even the physicality of it. Illness shows profound. 

I mean, imagine having to walk around, bent over and not being able to straighten up. I mean, just, just doing everyday stuff and meeting people who don't understand what's going on in your world and thinking what's what on earth is he doing? What on earth is, why is she behaving like that? And somehow, somehow this vulnerability is exasperated by her physical expression, as well as the must be the profound sense of hopelessness in her that this has been going on for it teen years. For some of our listeners, literally that's a lifetime. Some of our listeners will be 18, 19, 20 years of age. That's a whole life span. Bent double and undoubtedly has probably sought every cure under the sun that she can afford to get this thing fixed and it's not fixing so, so that the overwhelming sense of the woman's vulnerability is, is absolutely there. 

And you can also get a sense of why this, this woman would find herself excluded. This is just, it's not just, it's not just difficult in terms of uncleanness. It's, it's difficult in terms of just like social dynamic. This is awkward. And you're dealing with someone who seems to have a profound disability and a world that probably wouldn't be known for it. Understanding and a sympathetic way of, of that disability may be nuanced in there as well. She's like this because God's cursor or she's like this because she's sinned. I mean, that, that was part of the theological framework of the day of Jesus and Jesus on numerous occasions, literally refutes that it's really interesting. 

Dr. Luke hits their side of the park, right at the beginning of his gospel when he talks about Zachariah and Elizabeth being barren that, that, that, even when they could have children, they couldn't have children. I know they're all in years and it says, but Dr. Luke reminds us, but they were righteous people.  

[00:17:16] David: Hmm. 
 

[00:17:17] John: And it's really interesting. He hits that rate at the big cause he's saying to his audience, Okay. 

Elizabeth is not barren because she's a center. Elizabeth was a righteous person. Zachariah was a good man because John name w we've touched on this, who sinned that this man was born blind. So, so there was a theology attached to suffering that wasn't always helpful to the software. 

So you've got layers, layers of suffering in this woman. 18 years of suffering, the physicality of that suffering, the vulnerability of that suffering, the exclusion of that suffering and layered on top of that, the very synagogue she's standing in would probably have a theological position that says, oh, and by the way, you probably deserve it because you've been a bad person somewhere in your life. 

And if all of that's the case, I'm not surprised you didn't rock up to the synagogue too.  

[00:18:12] David: It's definitely there in the text, isn't it? The fact that the definition of what's wrong with her is it's a spirit, at least somebody's commentary on this is, this is not, she didn't fall down the stairs and ended up with  

this. So yeah, living with that shame and, and, and that theology, that theology persists, John, you still can encounter that theology in the contemporary world wherein. 

Despite the consistent message of the Bible refuting that way of thinking. There's still a, a dominant amount of thinking I encounter in, in, in Christendom of, well, maybe you deserve it. And and so there's always that shame. There's always that shame. We find it, people encounter tragedy and so quickly, our theology leads us to ask the questions, but what did I do to end up in this sort of situation? 

And so, so to Jesus is is definitely going to, want to contrast some of that with us. And so, so then he set something up. John, I want to just pause because the miracle itself is relatively straight forward. Isn't it? Here's the woman. She had a spirit for 80 years. She was bent over and couldn't straight. 

Jesus saw her and called her forward. So as you said, the grammars there is the seeing and the calling, it brings her forward women you're set free from your infirmity. I mean that, it's, it's a, it's a two lane miracle story, isn't it? And then he put his hands on her interesting there's touch here. 

We talked about in the last episode, how Jesus talks to the dead man who doesn't touch her, doesn't touch him. But here in this story, Jesus says you're set free. And then he touches her. But why just want to highlight, because I think we need to bank this little comment here, woman, you are set free. And it's just worth putting in the bank right there. 

That, again, not a bad translation, but the literal word that's used is this Greek word, which is the Greek root is the word lul. Which means to lose. Right. So, so eight is an absolutely valid translation. Say, woman, you're set free, but if you're a Bible highlighter, you just going to want to highlight that word and save it. 

The literal word there is lul which means to lose anyone who's ever learned. Greek will all of a sudden jump on board with this because Lou is the very first Greek word that you're ever taught in most Greek at textbooks because it's a verb that works consistently. It has no irregularities to it. 

So even if you did less than one of Greek verb, you'll go, oh, I know that word. I know that word. So I just want to bank that John, that the woman is loosed. Jesus says you are loosed from your infirmity because that's going to be helpful to us as, as we jump into the rest of the story, right? 

[00:20:58] John: Yep, yep. Yeah. so good. 

And, and of course in getting to that moment we, we have some dramatic progressions here. So Lou, the, the miracle is relatively. If we can say this carefully, relatively straightforward, did I say that I'd like, yeah, relatively straightforward. 

There are a number of sort of dramatic developments from verses 12 to 13 that are really worthy of our note in that he calls her forward. My goodness now, to two things, to think about the idea that number one, she's the one with the disability. 

So what, why, why doesn't Jesus go to her? I mean, I mean, he's gone to the, to the, to the, the beer, before we in, in Luke seven, he went to the beer and touched the, the, the beer that the boy was standing on our lying on and, and healed him. 

So Jesus, but Jesus makes her come to him. And I think there's two things going on. I, I think it's not just that Jesus, isn't going to, I think that Jesus is deliberately calling her towards the police of the Torah, the place that is getting dangerously close to her being within touching distance of, of that scroll on all that, that gallery that perhaps the religious experts are. The leader of the synagogue is sitting in. So, so Jesus calls her forward. Ah, isn't that a beautiful picture in Luke, remember our margin stuff. He is calling her from the margin. If she has appeared that the door is literally, he's literally calling her from the door and he's saying, come here to me, come to the center, the center of this synagogue, don't sit on the fringe, because what I'm about to do is going to deliver you from the fringes for the rest of your life. 

It's just a, it's an easy miss, again, rushing to the punchline of the miracle. It's really easy to miss that, that all her forward, which is just, just beautiful.  

[00:23:11] David: just like, if you're going to read anything, it looks good. I mean, read Luke's gospel, read Luke's gospel again and again, and again, that's my advice to anybody keep reading Luke's gospel. But when you are going to read Luke's gospel, always just go to chapter one. And if you've got, if you've got time, just read the Magnificant Mary song and read Zachariah's prophecy because it's like, here's what I think Luke does. 

I mean, those two pieces of prophetic texts are profound, but Luke puts them at the beginning of his book and it's equivalent to, this is how I want to say it, John. Cause I like it. You know me, I like a good metaphor and you sit down to your message. Exam and you open up page one of your math exam and by some fluke, the answers are stuck in the first page. 

And, and do you all of a sudden realize, oh, wait a minute. I now know the answers to all the questions in this test. I would be tempted to say that in Mary song and Zachariah's prophecy all of the answers to understanding what Luke thinks is happening in his gospel. Are there, and in Mary's song, there's this great power reversal, in Zachariah's song, the mercy is showing to the downtrodden. 

 Mary says the rich and the powerful are brought down from their Thrones and the poor are lifted up. This miracle story is a power struggle. It's a power struggle between, between the synagogue powers and their ability to enact the law in particular ways and between Jesus, his kingdom, which wants to enact the law very differently. 

Right. So I think it's always worth, like I say, there's a little, little detour on how to read Luke's gospel, but these, these two poems, these two prophecies, these two prayers are, are just constantly being alluded to throughout it's aren't they it's so good. 

[00:25:10] John: And isn't it beautiful David that the two opening prophecies represent in some ways the dynamic tension Jesus is trying to reach for it. The gospel of Luke. so Zachariah represents the sort of religious priestly in host crowed  

order. And of course you get Jesus tussling with the Pharisees sitting, having dinner with them, desperately trying to win them why they are trying to win him, I suppose. And then you've got, you've got, Mary's words, which are this power juxtaposition coming out of the mouth of a teenage girl. I mean, seriously, it doesn't get any better than that. And if you didn't, if you read Mary's Magnificat and didn't know who said that you'd think that was common. 

Profound scholar, a well educated top quality, all Testament expert. And it's coming out of the mouth of the equivalent in our culture of a teenage  

girl.  

[00:26:06] David: goodness, John, like so much. I agree with you. I'm so excited by a conversation like this. Cause here's, here's, here's what we're getting off track John, but I'm super, I'm super excited  

[00:26:16] John: That's but it's good. It's a good off-track keep going.  

[00:26:19] David: I go so often to Christmas shows, right? My wife is a teacher in a, in a Christian school for a lot of years in a, in a Roman Catholic school. 

My daughter is involved in stuff we get in activity plays in churches. I've seen you're the same. Like I think if you've pastored in the church, you've seen a lot of nativity plays in your time and. I get so frustrated by the portrayal of Mary in all of them I've been to Roman Catholic, the nativity shows I've been to Pentecostal ones. 

Mary is always cast as the shy, retiring, not quite sure what's going on timid little girl. And then you read Luke and then I think Luke is the great gospel liberator of women, right? Like if, if there is a gospel writer, I think they all do it, but Luke rails against patriarchy, that's it. But you read Mary and Luke. 

Goodness, like she is, Hey, let me say this. And we might lose some listeners with this, with this metaphor, but let me just. If Mary is a little teenage girl, she's a Gretta Thern, Berg type teenage girl. You know this, Gretta, Thornburg, this, this, and I know that she's a politically a polarizing figure, but there's teenage girl. 

Who's happy to go to the UN and talk to them about what she thinks is right. That's the type of teenage girl that Mary us. Like she's, she's, she's gonna put it out there and see this, this child is God bringing down the, the powerful and raising up the poor. I mean, it's why you can tell I'm excited about it, John, but, but like, this is my appeal. 

If you're a pastor listening to this, no more nativity plays with Mary as this little girl that doesn't know what's going on. 

[00:28:07] John: Absolutely. I, I maybe, maybe do a sermon series at Christmas on the Magnificat that'll that'll keep us all occupied for a little while and it is, it is Just. 

gorgeous. So, so he calls her forward, this dramatic. Then then it's this, this thing is like it's gathering momentum. He calls her forward. 

Nice speaks to her. Will. I think we'll come back because there's a gorgeous, humorous connector to loosed later on in the passage, which I think you're alluding to. And Dan, of course he touched her now here's the thing, right? She's bent over  

[00:28:44] David: Hmm, 
 

[00:28:45] John: touch her. He's got a done,  

[00:28:48] David: Hmm. 
 

[00:28:49] John: right? So we've seen already in chapter seven of Luke and an other miracle stories that we've encountered, Jesus doesn't need to touch anybody to heal them. He doesn't touch the boy that he raises from the dead. He touches the beer. He doesn't touch the servant of the century. And in Luke seven, he speaks the word. So we know he doesn't need to touch her. He's touching her.  

Deliberately he, and to touch her, he has to bend over to even if Jesus is of average height, Okay. 

He's having to bend over and I noted he put his hands on  

[00:29:37] David: Hmm.  
 

[00:29:37] John: So this isn't just like a little, little sort of casual Glancy touchy thing. This is Jesus putting both his hands on her on bending over to do that. And this, I think this is, as far as Lucas concerned, programmatically, this is, this is the glory of heaven, touching the brokenness of humanity in a synagogue within touching distance of the time. I, I it's just doesn't get much better than this in terms of that. And, and also it's shocking moment. It is a show. I think it's this moment of touching that really irritates the people that are not, not just the healing, but the behavior of Jesus. I think it's the behavior of Jesus. As much as the healing is irritating, the powers that be within that synagogue setting, but this is dramatic. 

It doesn't need to touch her. In fact, it would be ways or not the touch,  

[00:30:36] David: Hmm.  
 

[00:30:37] John: but he bends over and touches her anyway, because he's making again, as we've been trying to reemphasize over and over again, and our miracle series, this is not just about the miracle. There is a message in the miracle. There's a message, not just of liberation from sickness or something else of than being nuanced in this. 

And I think that. Touching moment is profoundly dramatic. In the healing of this woman, of course, Luke then says immediately contrast in it to the 18 years of suffering immediately. 

[00:31:10] David: I love that. 

[00:31:10] John: She straightened up Jenna it's just so you get this sort of building, he saw her, he calls her forward, he speaks to her. 

Then he touches her boom nigh. He heals her and then it all kicks off. Of course, in the context of the synagogue in terms of that unbelievably strange, weird reaction, at least to us in the 21st century, it seems like a very strange reaction.  

[00:31:36] David: It does. Doesn't it, but then of course that's what Luke's set up right at the very start of his gospel is that, is that Jesus has come to disrupt that Jesus is a  

[00:31:47] John: Yeah.  

[00:31:48] David: and this whole story is disruptive. But. It's always worth bearing in mind that disruption threatens people that, that I, I think we said this in an earlier episode, but I am always aware of the fact that, if you think about the Magnificant Mary talks about the, the, the, the valleys being raised up, the poor are being lifted up by it's brilliant. 

We say, but the mechanism that Mary seems to allude to is, is how are we going to raise up these valleys? Well, we're gonna raise up these valleys by pushing this mountain into them. There. There's a huge road project going on outside of my house at the minute. And we're there, they're connecting a ring road through our city and the work, my daughter and I, when we drive to school, like they are quite literally moving sections of, of Hills. 

They're, they're, they're currently putting, they're currently punching through a hill and they're taking all of this mud from this hill and they're moving it down into a section of the valley so that basically they can build a road where there was a valley through where there was a hill. Well, Mary says that the, the valleys would be raised up or to raise the valleys up. 

You have to re you have to lore the magnets to raise up the poor. You have to ask the rich to step down a little bit. I mean, this is disruption on a level. So when you hear a message like that, Magnificant, if you're poor, it sounds hopeful. If you're rich, it sounds threatening.  

[00:33:16] John: Yep.  
 

[00:33:16] David: and, and so, so it's no surprise when Jesus walks into the power structure of his day and starts to do things which are disruptive. 

It's threatening, it's threatening to livelihoods into careers and to systems. And, and, and, and listen, if you've been in church for more than five minutes, we can all get very, very, very protective about even just tradition. It's just not the way we do it around here. And we can all fall out in, whether you're in a church or a golf club, somebody suggests doing something differently. 

It's a risky strategy that you've just taken  

[00:33:48] John: For sure.  

[00:33:49] David: So, so I, I feel like there's, you're seeing it's important to, don't just read this as this man's mad because Jesus did a miracle. The synagogue leader understands what the miracle implies. The synagogue leader realizes like this disruption could, it could be bad for me. 

And therefore, I always like to say within Jesus, and it's so often that the story and the argument seems to be about this, but actually it's about that. So it seems like the complaint is about this woman being healed, but actually the complaints about so much more than that.  

[00:34:28] John: I think  

[00:34:29] David: But as even when I was reading it, the job, it's like, it's hard to read it without even sniggering, because it just seems so far fetched third 36 days for work. 

[00:34:39] John: yeah. 
 

I, and, and even if you, if you'd have been in that synagogue and understood the sort of epicenter of that argument and th there was reason for the argument, but, but even if you sort of understand that you're gone, but hold on a minute, it's just healer. She, this woman has been hobbling around for 18 years. 

Like, seriously, that's, that's got to be God. Right. And of course, all of our listeners may, may wonder what on earth. Provokes this reaction. I do think there's a power shift happening and I think the minute someone comes in and we see this with Jesus and Lazarus in John's gospel, literally the reason of Lazarus from the dead causes the religious community who have influence and power to, to aggressively intensify their agenda, to destroy Jesus and Lazarus, actually. 

So there is a power shift taking place because of some of these miracles, which is definitely a backstory that's going on here. But of course his, his, his response is not from the Torah. So there's nothing in the Torah that I can find it for beds being healed on Shabbat. Okay. 

But of course, what is forbidden on Shabbat is work. 

So you enter into rest. And so our listeners may be aware of the fact that a, an oral tradition amongst the scholars, the teachers has. In which they discuss, what does keeping the Sabbath look like? So within oral traditions that ultimately get re-upped into things like the missioner and are fed by things like the Gomorrah it's you have these ideas. Okay. 

Can, can I take my donkey to the water or not? Can I, can I walk on the Sabbath or not? Can I do this or not? What can I do? What can't I do. And even today, if you go to modern Israel when it enters into Shabbat literally elevators in hotels stop, and they go onto a special sort of bypass system, and there's all sorts of things. 

You, you still can't do it because healing was seen as creative. 

[00:36:42] David: Okay. 
 

[00:36:42] John: So that's why there's a reaction here. Now. It doesn't make any sense because healing of a broken body is the ultimate demonstration of the grace of God in a broken world. But somehow there was a nuance that said healing is, is not permitted on the Sabbath because healing is work. 

And this is what makes Jesus response back. Navicent Jesus understands the synagogue. Ruler is not arguing from the Torah because if he did, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but he's arguing from the oral tradition. And this is where the genius of Jesus has sin again, because Jesus doesn't respond from the Torah. 

Jesus responds from the oral tradition and he actually says, but hold on a minute, hold on a minute. Don't don't you say that you can lose it. You're donkey and, and bring it to the water on the Sabbath. He says he was on the say then shoot, not this woman be loosed. So that lovely introduction that you gave us a little while ago about, that he doesn't just heal the woman, he loses the woman. 

I think Dr. Luke is setting us up for a gorgeous little play on that, that idea later on, which is a dramatic epicenter to the argument. We'll hold on. The oral tradition says that we can lose our donkey and take it to the water and here's, and here's what Jesus is saying. Hey, look, if it's good enough to loose a donkey, it's okay to lose the woman. Now when you're, I mean, it's such a brilliant argument and he's, he's not even quoting Moses. He's not even quoting Torah. He's not, he's not violating Shabbat. It's a genius answer without, without bringing the wrath of the law on his head. He literally sorta pokes fun at the oral interpretation. The more the, the oral interviews should say, well, donkeys, you can loose women. 

You can't.  

And Jesus said, come on boys. I mean, without saying that, he said, is that preposterous or may the only one in the room that thinks that's the case? So, so it's a brilliant response. And it shows again, the genius of Jesus. He didn't just know Moses. He knew the arguments about Moses and he was able to lean into some of those and, and help establish the kingdom's authority in news interpretations.  

[00:38:57] David: Of course, this idea of mission art is, is a fence, isn't it? That we don't want to break the law. So what we'll do is we'll put a fence around the law. So we will put laws on top of laws and therefore, if we can keep those laws, we're definitely in no danger of breaking Torah. But it's interesting that, that Jesus, even the contrast he makes about time is interesting. 

It doesn't each of you on Sabbath.  

Loose. And like you say, it's that word there. We translate to untie, but again, the word is actually loose. Doesn't it? Doesn't each of you on the Sabbath loose your ox or donkey from the stall and lead out to give it water. Well, think of the contrast. Why does your ox or donkey need watch it? 

Well, because it's not had anything to drink since yesterday. And so Jesus is contrast. So you will lose a donkey that's less than 24 hours thirsty, but you don't want to loose an 18 year long illness.  

[00:39:57] John: So good. I'd never seen that before. That's so good.  

[00:40:00] David: You're telling me that a thirsty donkey is more important than a broken woman. 

It's like th th th the time contrast is really interesting. Isn't it? 

[00:40:10] John: That's fantastic. I'd never seen that before. I just Farb love that. I love that. And, and again, it's almost slightly humorous as well. Isn't it? It's like, do you do feel that when Jesus is answering this, I know I've been watching the recent release series to chosen and, and what they have Jesus doing every now and again, as it really key moments, Jesus winks, and he winks at people. 

And it's it's a bit, it's a bit gloriously disturbing, but I do like the idea of Jesus winking. And I could almost, you could almost see Jesus as he's a boat to answer the synagogue, ruler, winking at the woman. Just stand there, watch this as he, as he then dismantles the argument. With such profundity. 

And of course, this is a serious point that you made earlier on David. And this is, this is genuinely no Londoners and seriousness is that. Of course it actually does say that his opponents were humiliated. Now that's a serious issue there. So the people rejoice, but as opponents were humiliated and I think they're humiliated because he has without trying very hard, completely dismantled their interesting we'll call it theological position on shoe. 

As far as healing is concerned and listen, no one likes to have their backside kicked in public. So I do think you're getting a disturbance of the power structure here. I think this miracle will rumble. I think the way Jesus behaves here will rumble over. And I think you're starting to get a momentum building towards this climactic moment of clash in Jerusalem. 

And Jesus is starting to rattle cages, not simply by what he's doing, but by challenging some of the profound traditions that some of these ideas are built on, which are not necessarily, but blissful ideas, but traditions of elders and scholars.  

[00:42:05] David: yes, no, I, I definitely agree. And at that transition of the great reversal is at the start of the story is although it's implicit, we have detected it. There, there is the shame of it. Right. I know at the end of the story, it's the shame of the opponent. So you see again, it's again, it's this it's this Magnificat paradigm, isn't it? 

It's Mary song. It's inverting the people who are glorified or are not so glorified and the people who are shamed are now being, are now being presented as models of the kingdom of God.  

[00:42:42] John: Indeed. And it's, it's striking, it's striking one last little just reflection on that bet. David it's striking that Jesus calls them hypocrites. Now we tend to think that word gets banded around a lot in the gospels, but actually in the gospels, as far as I can see, hypocrite is only used 18 times, according to my research. 

And it's only used by Jesus  

[00:43:07] David: hmm, 
 

[00:43:08] John: And of the 18 times Jesus uses it. 15 are really directed to the religious community. So it's not a word he uses liberally. It's a word he really uses in focused language. And it does tend to be the majority of the use towards people who should know better. So what he's really, when he calls this man a hypocrite, he's actually saying, come on now, you should know better than this. 

You, you are taking me on in public and forcing me to take, to take you on. And actually you're being a hypocrite because you've taken your donkey out to water on Shabbat. Well, well, why can't we lose this woman? So, so I, again, for our listeners, the word hypocrite gets thrown around a lot and actually it's used very carefully in the gospels and Jesus uses it very carefully and almost. For the religious community. And again, the, and this is why I picked this up. David, the little contrast where you talk about that contrast, that reversal of position, this is then emphasize. So he calls them in verse 15 hypocrites, and then he refers to the woman as the daughter of Abraham. Wow. Now there's a juxtaposition. 

So the synagogue ruler and his mates are called hypocrites on the broken woman. Who's been on clean for 18 years is called a daughter of Abraham. And again, a little reflection for our listeners. This is the only time in the whole of the gospels. And I, as far as I can see the whole of the scriptures where a woman is referred to directly as a daughter  

of Abraham. 

So Jesus is not just healing her. He's not just straightening her up. He is straightening her up and her identity. He is lifting her up. He has lifted her from unclean marginalized. That woman who's been sick and probably deserves to be sick to daughter of April hall. And that, to me, that is a magnificent moment where hypocrite on daughter via Perham sit in opposition to one another dramatically in this story. 

And I think that probably leans into the humiliation on the delight. If you're sitting or as, as not very well educated, feeling a bit on the margin yourself on you're hearing this local rabbi. Given these boys, a bit of a kicking in terms of theology. You're probably quietly deleted and all of that. 

But, , you're, you're seeing a dramatic juxtaposition here, hypocrite daughter via Abraham absolutely Beautiful. 

Within that. So I just grabbed that after what you had said there. I thought it was just a great  

[00:46:00] David: And it's important. It's important to note that and just maybe just keep repeating this isn't, Jesus has in modern interpretation is sometimes accused of a bit of antisemitism by the arguments that he has with some of the synagogue leaders. But I always feel like it's important to note at this point that that Jesus isn't criticizing Judaism. 

He isn't criticizing Torah here. He never, as far as I can see breaks Torah he, he, he stays well within Jesus is Jewish and, and he holds onto that. What he is critiquing here. Which is very common actually within Judaism to be internally critical. But Jesus has critiquing here. You are actually off beam with Tara. 

You have put things in front of Torah, which are now preventing to RA from being lived out here. A Sabbath is for humans, not humans for Sabbath. So if donkeys can have exceptions on Sabbath, surely also. Women can have some exceptions on Sabbath. And even that word hypocrites, John, I always think it's worth the etymology of it's interesting, the Hippocrates literally like in the ancient society at the store of around about the time of Jesus, that word gets associated is the term for actors. 

So in these big theaters, the actors would wear these masks to help you identify their role in the play. They put on these large masks that you could see them better from where your vantage point and these amphitheaters that we see in the Roman pictures. So, so to, to, to put on something, I mean, the whole, it seems to me that the Hooper courteous language is about judgment and the ability to not be able to judge who the person is properly because they're here as an actor. 

And so, so you hypocrites is Jesus. You're acting here. You, you actually are playing as Torah, observant people, but you're using Torah to bring pain and to bring exclusion and terrorize never been about bringing pain and exclusion. Exactly. In fact, the opposite. So I think that that critique is hypocrite sounds sometimes in our modern vernacular, a little different than what, do you sing, stop being actors around Tara, stop, pretending to be something other than what you are. 

And I think that's also what can be quite shaming when you get, when you get revealed as an actor, rather than, rather than, that that can be embarrassing. Right.  

[00:48:33] John: Oh, absolutely. I think that's all part of that. Humiliation and, and, and actually the fact that there's no comeback to the argument of Jesus, that is absolutely floored them. I mean, how do you answer that? There is no answer to that. He's going to say this carefully, he's beat them at their own game. 

He's, he's quoted the oral tradition in such a way that it makes any defense of that oral tradition on this issue. Preposterous. And you're absolutely right. Jesus never bricks, Torah, but he does challenge the traditions and interpretations of Torah. You have heard it said, but I say onto you, and I think it's important for us to recognize 

[00:49:17] David: A lot of my doctoral research was into this whole subject of honor and shame dynamics and, and in the ancient world to be involved in a verbal SPECT with someone and to be left, unable to answer is in and of itself shameful. 

Right. So if you're finding the left Goodwill. I can't say anything back to that. The observers would realize, oh, you lost  

[00:49:41] John: Yeah.  

[00:49:41] David: and therefore, and therefore you are the one who has been humiliated in the, in the engagement. 

[00:49:47] John: it's a great, great thought. I just, just one final reflection debit. We we've lent into this before, when we did the parables, but of course in, in my lovely Bible at the end of verse 17 when he said this, his opponents were humiliated, people delayed it, et cetera, et cetera. Heading introduced which of my Bible says the parables of the most received in the yeast. 

But verse 18 says then Jesus asked,  

[00:50:09] David: absolutely. It's the same  

[00:50:11] John: um, and it's a cm story. 

then Jesus asked. And of course, what does he ask? He asks, what is the kingdom of God? Like now? I think so if our our, our readers, our listeners can imagine he has probably turned toward the synagogue ruler who may be positioned behind him when he's reading Torah. 

And, and it's probably answered. And I would imagine now he's turning to theists the, the wider audience in that synagogue. And he asks them the question. So what is the kingdom of God? Like, what shall I compare it to? It's like a mustard seed, which a man who can plant it in his garden, it grew and became the tree and the birds perched in its brunches. 

Again, he asked what shall I compare the kingdom of God to, oh, Yeast that a woman took and mixed and the 60 pounds of flour until it worked all the way through the door. And that's it. He doesn't explain it. And I, I think he's linking his message of the kingdom to this meal. He's saying this Luke's like the small seed plant that this looks inconsequential, but this is a seed of the kingdom on the fringe of the fringe of the empire that will grow and outlast rooms, mate, and strength. 

And then of course, I as if to absolutely run the point, home him, his final little parable is of a woman. Herself,  

[00:51:42] David: Yes. 
 

[00:51:43] John: Working the yeast into the dough and until it. 

works all the way through the door. And I think Jesus is saying what you've seen today is just the beginning of the yeast of the kingdom being worked into the dough and it's going to change the whole world. 

So I would encourage our listeners next time they read that story, read through rate to the end of a verse 21 and read it as a whole on YouTube. Get a dramatic and even more dramatic climax Judah, because w w when it finishes a verse 17, you're almost going home. Thank God that's over, but it's not over. 

And Jesus just goes okay, while I've got your attention, what's the kingdom of God. Like, and what shall I compare it to? Any Rams? The point home?  

[00:52:25] David: Now I want to see if you are interested in that parable of the woman and the 60 pounds of flour go and listen to episode three of our parable series, it's called flash  

[00:52:37] John: A million years ago. We did that. Come on.  

[00:52:39] David: all the way back from may. So yeah, flash parables part one is us actually unpacking that that parable. So rather than us unpacking the parable again for you just now go back and listen to that episode of us getting really excited about that. 

But here's my final thought, John, and I've literally just, this is just struck me just now. As you were talking just there. Like what if those two parables actually at the end of the sermon, right? Because, because, because Luke 13 verse 10, where where's the story start, Jesus is teaching and behold a woman like, so you made the point at the start, it seems like she's interrupted. 

Right? She just appears. So there's almost a sense of which Jesus is going. Okay. Now that we've done the healing sorted out the slight small theological differences that we had there. Let me get back to my teaching. I mean, it's, you can't entirely prove that, but. But of course the, the rabbinic model of teaching is very interrogative. 

It's, it's, I'm going to ask some questions. I want you to think about it when you're going to, so, so there's, it's interesting how the, the interruption becomes the teaching piece of the interruption, as you said, then Jesus asked. Right? Okay. So,  

[00:53:52] John: That's for sure.  

[00:53:53] David: I I'm, I'm, I'm kind of building on a little bit of silence there, but, but you definitely get the sense at the start. 

The teaching is interrupted and now you get Jesus, whether it's the end of his sermon, he definitely makes it the end of his sermon. And it's like, well, probably don't need to say anything else. Now. How about here's two thoughts, and then I'm out. 

[00:54:12] John: Yeah. no, no. On, of course that would lean into the six. Element of the synagogue. So, so the final element of the synagogue service has been addiction. In other words, some sort of reference to how good that word was from the teacher. Well, that's not going to happen. So there, so, so that's definitely not. 

So Jesus produces his own benediction by proclaiming, oh, here's the kingdom of God. Here's what it looks like and Fasten your seatbelts. Cause this thing's gonna rock your world. And I think he finishes the sermon his own way. I think it's a brilliant insight. Absolutely.  

[00:54:45] David: And what somebody will notice. And I said, we wouldn't teach on the parable, but I just need to make this point really quickly because I'm excited about it. When you listen to flash parables part one, you'll notice that we pick up on there being just a little bit of a an interest in Jesus talks about this woman who's mixing door and she mixes 60 pounds of flour. 

I mean, it's, it's a huge amount, right. And we pointed out in that parable, that that's an interesting number because actually back in Genesis, you actually get Abraham. And Sarah have these visitors who have come to tell them that they're going to have a son and Sarah mixes, 60 pounds of flour to make bread for them. 

And because it's such a ridiculous number for three people, let's make 27 kilos of dough. It sticks out. So the fact that, gee, what was it? Been in that previous podcast, what we mentioned is it clearly there's an illusion to this coming kingdom that this, this way of God, that's going to come through Abraham, his family. 

So again, go and listen to that in your own time. But just notice that Jesus says this woman, a daughter of Abraham, and then he rolls into a parable about a woman, which is an illusion to the story. When Abraham is promised a child is coming. I mean, it it's just there isn't it. You can feel it in the air that the Jesus is being very clever. 

[00:56:14] John: very, very clever, very  

[00:56:16] David: if you're raised on these stories, if you're in the synagogue and you've grown up listening to them, you don't, you don't miss that.  

[00:56:22] John: Absolutely You don't miss that. You, you, you, you excuse the pond, but you, you do catch the bread crumbs doggy. 

Okay. So that's it for our second text of this week. Thanks so much for listening. We hope that you enjoyed it. If you want to get in touch with either office about something we said, you can reach out to us on podcast@twotexts.com. Or by liking and following the two techs podcast on Facebook. Instagram, Twitter and YouTube. If you did enjoy this episode, we'd love it. If you left us a review or a comment where you're listening from, and if you really enjoy the episode,  

Why not share it with a friend. Don't forget, you can listen to all of our podcasts at www.Twotexts.com. Or wherever you get your podcasts, but that's it for today. We'll be back in two weeks time with another episode. But until then, Goodbye.