FHS Instructional Coach (Comfort Crusher) Karen Hillier talks about what students need to be engaged and helping teachers discover how to help students think, create, and discover their own learning.
FHS Instructional Coach (Comfort Crusher) Karen Hillier talks about what students need to be engaged and helping teachers discover how to help students think, create, and discover their own learning.
Speaker 1 Is that how you. I remember that writer? Is that guy, right? Speaker 2 No, he didn't hit it. I mean, we may have. We didn't share that, but he did have a T-shirt. Oh, for each day in the day was printed across the front of the T-shirt. Speaker 3 So literally all year long for the Monday on a monday. Yeah. Speaker 4 It was a T-shirt. Is a T-shirt. Speaker 1 Okay. Speaker 2 Yeah, Because. Speaker 3 Then. Speaker 1 That is. Speaker 4 Then nobody. Speaker 2 Will know. But hopefully, you know. Speaker 1 Karen wouldn't know. Speaker 2 So that's frightening in itself. Speaker 1 But yeah, that's a question that I kind of want to ask. Speaker 5 All Karens out there. So there is this like international meme of calling someone a Karen. So how does that feel to be a Karen and hearing your name used in that sense? Speaker 2 You know, I think I was late to the party on on that one because I was over at my niece and nephews house and and one of them, Kinsey said, you. Speaker 3 Know you are so not a Karen. Speaker 2 And I said, I don't look like a Karen. What do you mean you? She said, Don't you know? And this I think this is like last year, this. Speaker 1 New. Speaker 4 Unheard of thing. Speaker 2 I heard of it and they both agreed you are not a Karen. And I said, Well, what what exactly defines a Karen? And they, you know, started throwing in. Basically they said it comes down to being. Speaker 3 The soccer mom mentality that always. Speaker 2 Has to have her way. Yeah, that makes sense to me either because I thought what does a soccer mom have in common? It just doesn't make sense to me. And so I think my husband was more offended by it than I was. And he said, Well, that's not fair. And I said, Well, I don't know what to tell you. Speaker 2 It's my name. Should we change it? And so, no, I. I didn't even know. Speaker 3 What that meant. Speaker 2 So I just kind of let it go over. And now I just I don't even hear it much. Speaker 5 Okay. Tell me, have you. Have you ever asked to speak to someone's manager? Speaker 3 Never. Speaker 2 And is that is that kind of. Speaker 1 Does that. Speaker 4 Excuse me, Can I speak? Speak to your manager, please? Speaker 5 This is such a Karen. Speaker 1 Exactly. Speaker 2 No. And so maybe McKinsey was right. I am so not a guy. No, I don't even send things back when they're cooked incorrectly. You know, I just go, I'll eat it. Speaker 3 It's okay. Speaker 4 That's me. That's a Karen. I'm somebody who would be like, I did not ask for lettuce on my hamburger. I would like a whole new hammered. Speaker 1 Instead of just texture. Just take the lettuce off. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 3 Yes, that's me. I would just take the lettuce often for. Speaker 2 So. Yeah, I don't know. Does anyone know the. Speaker 3 How did they come up with that name? Karen. To, to represent that mentality. Speaker 5 No idea of the background. No, no, no. Speaker 4 I know men are chads, Right. Speaker 5 Chads. Speaker 4 Have you not heard that? Speaker 5 Oh, no, I haven't heard that one. Speaker 4 Yeah, it's the male version is a chad. Speaker 5 Challenges. Sounds like a sassy name to me. Speaker 1 Yeah. I don't know, huh? Speaker 3 Chad and Karen. Speaker 4 Chads and Karen's. Speaker 1 Yeah, well. Speaker 4 I'm sure there are Karens out there who are just like that. That maybe that's offensive, too. So you're not like that. So I could see where you would be like. Speaker 1 I don't really care. You know, names. Speaker 3 Go through popularity phases. And so maybe it's an age group and, you know, maybe. Speaker 1 Sure. Yes. Speaker 3 So maybe more people named Karen came about during that women's. I'm going to assert myself with what I want. Speaker 1 Yeah. It's. Yeah. Extra. An extra thing, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 4 Okay. So Karen Hillyer is with us today. Karen, will you take 3 minutes and tell us your educational story in as much detail as possible? Speaker 1 All of that after the 3 minutes. Hey. Speaker 2 Education. Do you want me to start at kindergarten, or should I just move on after this. Speaker 1 For just a little bit? Okay. Speaker 2 Well, my mother was a schoolteacher. Speaker 3 And my father actually was a schoolteacher and a coach for a number of years. And when I went to school, I was determined I was going to be a schoolteacher. That's what I wanted to do. However, I went ended up as an English teacher. Speaker 2 As you probably know. But I started out as a math major. Speaker 4 Oh, I didn't know that. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 I mean, two different sides of the brain. Maybe. I'm, you know, I don't know. But I did end up taking this. Speaker 3 Analytical geometry. Speaker 2 Class twice. And I remember the day my professor said, Miss Mickey, is there something you like Excel at? And I thought apparently, and not analytical geometry. Right. And he said, I'm just wondering if we could make this easier on you. And I said, Well, I mean, I don't know. English had always. Speaker 3 Come easily for me. Speaker 2 I couldn't say that I was an avid reader per say at that age. But my mother was an English teacher and so I just got it. It clicked. And so I said, Yeah, you know, I do pretty well in English. And he said, Why don't you consider that schedule change? Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Speaker 2 Yeah. And this is my third year of college. I actually survived some classes up to this point. So yeah, it was kind of a a switcheroo at that point. Speaker 4 So when I think of English, I think more about writing the writing side than I do the reading side. Because you said, well, I really wasn't an avid reader. I would think if someone mentioned to me majoring in English, it would be way more about writing than it is about reading. Speaker 3 More so than not responding to reading through writing. Speaker 2 And so you kind of had to do that reading up front to try to make some sense out of what you were saying. So yeah, yeah. Speaker 3 And you know, I wasn't even a great writer until probably my junior year in college. And, and it came from reading more. And so the more you see things that are done correctly, you know, the better you become at that pass. Speaker 2 So that's that. So I got. Speaker 3 My degree and I got engaged. I got my master's degree. At the same time. I thought, you know. Speaker 2 I'm not ready really to get out in the world, so we'll stay another year. Speaker 3 And I got engaged and got married on the weekend that I was supposed to graduate. Thunder And. Speaker 2 Were you about to say. Speaker 1 She's going to table with us here in these rooms and. Speaker 2 I'm going to set my hand? Speaker 3 And then I started my first job at Santa Fe Junior High the following year. It took me about two months into that junior high job to say, Oh, this is not. Speaker 1 What I want. Speaker 4 Grade engineering. Speaker 1 It was. Speaker 3 Seventh. Speaker 1 Grade. Speaker 3 Okay, Yeah. And then I got a job here at Friendswood High School. I had a connection. Rene Simmons was a graduate from Angleton, and she knew my mother. And when I put my application and she said, you know, Curtis Wilson was the president, I mean, the principal, then she said, give her a call. And they did. And I coached. Speaker 3 Was you coach back in the day? I coached volleyball, basketball and track. Wow. And then there was a period of time where I was the golf chaperon. Speaker 2 You know, you didn't really have to play golf or nothing. Speaker 3 About the game, I guess, because I didn't. But I did drive a little golf cart around and collect scorecards. Speaker 2 And count them up. And so my experience. Speaker 3 As a golf coach. Speaker 4 Did you play any of those sports in high school? Speaker 3 Yeah, Yes, I played volleyball and ran track high school. Speaker 1 So they weren't totally. Speaker 4 Foreign too, you. Speaker 3 Know. Speaker 1 As a girl athlete. Well, I've. Speaker 4 Had coaches in my life that the sport was truly foreign to a person. They were they should have been more of a sponsor than a. Speaker 1 Church, because I. Speaker 3 Think that was probably my career in basketball was kind of that. Speaker 4 Were you the head basketball. Speaker 1 Coach? No, no, I was I. Speaker 3 Was an assistant and I coached freshmen. But we had at that time a really talented group of kids come through. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 3 And I remember Dr. Kennedy was the principal and one of the parents of one of the girls on my team was actually on her state basketball team. Speaker 2 And so there was a lot of pressure. Whereas for someone who had never played basketball before, I spent a lot of time in Dr. King's office going over what exactly I was doing, and she wasn't the head coach either. So it was it was an interesting start to my coaching that didn't last. Speaker 3 But about three years and I got out of basketball, stayed with track for a little while, had kids. They were, you know, raised from infancy to about three years old in the gym and. Speaker 1 Coach is tough. Speaker 3 It's a lot of time. Speaker 4 It's a lot of time. And if you are really competitive and you want your teams like your heart's really in it. Like for me, I coached junior high as well and I would come home on a regular basis just like crying, like so frustrated that I couldn't see growth in some of the athletes. And it's just like it took it out of me, like it just took it out of me. Speaker 4 I mean, you really I loved it going back. Speaker 1 Of course. Speaker 4 I think don't Can you imagine going back? We would do it totally differently, I think. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I know I would totally do it differently, but yeah, it's a lot and it's a teeny stipend on top of. Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 That's what I. Speaker 3 Was going to say. You look at the time, put in for any of these, you know, multiple sport coaches and I think and I'm not sure I can't speak for my authority here but I think they, they tag on a little bit more after, you know your primary sport and then you have additional sports. You know, as far as the stipends are concerned. Speaker 3 And I'm thinking it is. Speaker 2 So hard work. Speaker 1 Now. I know it is. So now where that it. Speaker 4 Definitely has to be a calling. I mean, you that's why you're there, right? Speaker 1 Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 3 I can remember a time with this team that I had. We were going to a tournament over in Dickinson and I was driving the bus at the time. I had to get my CDL and we went over a railroad track and one of the kids said, Ms.. Hillier. Ms.. Hillier, you have to touch a screw and lift your feet or you're going to have bad. Speaker 1 Luck. Speaker 2 And you're the driver. And I said, I'm driving a school bus for a bunch of 15 year olds. How much worse could it get? And they just they didn't exactly think that was funny. But I was thinking, okay, let's talk about like, here. Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, that's great. Oh, Oh, do you do you write? Speaker 4 I mean, being in English. Are you an avid writer? Do you journal do you write these stories down that. Speaker 3 Oh, absolutely not. No. You know, I probably have reached that point in my life where I have time to do that now. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 But I do think and, you know, I've I've spoken with my colleagues about this, all of the things that we could have written down over the years. Speaker 4 And every teacher says that. And I feel like teachers don't write it down. But are there not some just gold, just stories that would just. Speaker 2 Make your mind explode to think that. Speaker 3 Actually happened? Speaker 4 I know. And you can't even remember. I don't know about you, but to remember all the the details that made it so such a great story, they kind of you kind of forget those. So if you're a teacher out there and you're early on in your you know, in your career, write things down, even if you're not young, what am I saying? Speaker 4 Start writing things down because you'll be shocked at the great stories that you'll walk away, you know. Speaker 1 So you can. Speaker 5 If you do, I would like to encourage you to send them to me. Kelsey goals so I can publish them. All right. Chicken Soup series. Thank you. Speaker 1 Yes, that's nice. You. Who is the. Speaker 4 Who is the chicken soup this week? Was it Paul. Speaker 5 Tucker? Is Paul Tucker. Speaker 1 Paul. Yes, he's a great he is awesome. Speaker 5 Can you. Speaker 4 Imagine a. Speaker 1 Book by Paul Tucker? Speaker 3 Oh, man. Speaker 4 I know. Speaker 3 I mean, every corny joke known to. Speaker 2 Mankind would really tell any corny. Speaker 3 Jokes when he was here. Speaker 5 He did not in this story. It was pretty sentimental. Speaker 4 And, you know, they're kind of he's kind of like their dad jokes, aren't they? What they call dad jokes now? Yeah, totally. Do you know what I'm talking about? When I say a dad joke, Kelsey? Speaker 1 Oh, when they say, yeah. Oh, yeah. I think there's a commercial about it. Oh, they're everywhere. Yeah. Speaker 5 I'm married to someone who consistently made that joke, so. Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay. Speaker 3 Did he. Did you sing, Mr. Tucker? Did he sing for you? Speaker 5 He hasn't. But that was in his story was how it was about his. His choir teacher in junior high. That was what he wrote on. Speaker 1 Oh, okay. I haven't. Speaker 3 Heard that. Speaker 1 Story. Speaker 5 Well, it was just released today. Go ahead and check this out, our friends. What I see on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Speaker 2 Thank you. Will do. Speaker 1 Is. Speaker 4 So I noticed, Kieran, that your title. Speaker 1 When we talk about your tie I'm. Speaker 2 Sure what is it today? Speaker 1 You know what you're telling them. This is so right here. This is. Speaker 4 Karen. I bet she does not know. Speaker 2 I don't. Is it is something to do with I coach now. Oh okay. Hit me with it is. Speaker 4 Lead campus technologists. Speaker 2 That's funny. Speaker 1 That's absurd. It is. Speaker 4 Not your. Speaker 1 No, it's not. What you doing. Speaker 2 No, but I think they had to have someone to hold the purse strings as a technologist on campus. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 And at the time I moved into this position, it was probably held prior to me by it was held by John Hexed. And he was probably more on that technology side. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 3 And so when I moved into that position, I just kind of assumed the title and. Speaker 1 The title the role. Speaker 3 And. Speaker 4 But you don't. So let's talk about. Speaker 1 It because. Speaker 2 You don't want me to. That's I mean, not talk about it, but you don't want me messing with the technology. I research you. Speaker 4 I mean, I coach. That's the I is for instructional. Speaker 1 Correct. Speaker 4 So you're you're much more of an instructional coach. Speaker 2 Yes. Speaker 3 If we but we don't have coaches in the traditional sense in the instructional department like you would think an instructional coach would be. I think we're looking at moving more in that direction here as a district. But I think when I took over and it became an official I coach position, it was really more out of that creativity. Speaker 1 Vein Right. Speaker 3 And how can we promote and spread the idea of creativity in the classroom throughout the building? Speaker 1 Right? Speaker 3 So that's kind of where it got established, I believe. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 4 Because I've come up with a couple. Speaker 1 Of of titles for you that I think are better, are like. Speaker 2 Karen. Speaker 1 Just cares here and lead. Speaker 4 Instructional specialist with an emphasis on authentic engagement and real life. Speaker 1 Experiences. Speaker 3 Wow that's a little lengthy. Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm going to be a big bang, a large. Speaker 2 Above the door. It does have to be on the wall. Speaker 4 Matt My favorite one is Educational Comfort Crusher. Speaker 1 Can I tell you, there's a saying. Speaker 4 In my family like comfort does not make anyone better. Correct? In Europe. I know you're a big believer in I am right. Speaker 1 Like. Speaker 4 So you're all about getting teachers. You mainly work with teachers, but it's for students and they're learning. But you're trying to work with teachers on how to finish that. For me. Speaker 3 On how to make what they're doing more engaging for kids as more relevant. Speaker 4 More authentic. Speaker 1 Yeah, we we use that word, but we do it. Yeah. You know. Speaker 2 And. Speaker 3 Authentic has we talk about the word authentic a lot. We've used it in some of the you know, publications that we've put out, and there are multiple interpretations of the word authentic, right? So is it authentic to the student in sense? Does it is it relevant to them in their lives or is authentic because it's relevant to the world that they live in and they may not make the. Speaker 2 Connection to that authenticity at the point. Speaker 3 Right. But it is something they're going to need to know to to function later in life if it's not at this point. So yeah, yeah, multiple definitions. Speaker 2 To that. Speaker 3 And interpretations to that. Speaker 4 So we, we interviewed Melissa Stevenson and in Corey Truman they were on the podcast and you've worked with them. Were you a part of that developing that curriculum and that course with them? Speaker 3 Yeah, it was. It was an idea. Speaker 2 I'm one of those ideal people and. Speaker 3 It was an idea that I had and I pulled them in one time and I don't know if they told you the story. I didn't I hadn't listened to that one yet. And we had a blank board. Speaker 2 You know, in front of us. And they said, so. Speaker 3 So what do you what do you want this to look like? I said, I don't I don't want anything. I want you to think outside of the box. What do you do now? And we kind of talked through that whole process of how Cory taught us history and how Melissa taught her English class, and she had not yet at that time, I don't believe, taught juniors. Speaker 3 And so it was just a process of what are the fundamental things that you do in an L.A. class? And I think I just said something to the fact that, you know, turn it upside down, do whatever you think, make sense for kids and what would be relevant. And they said, well, what are our what are our restrictions? Speaker 3 What are her rules? And I said, there are none. Speaker 2 And so they they had fun with that. And I think there was a little bit of fear. Speaker 3 Right. But I think sometimes when you have a relationship, a pairing, as we did in that situation, it's good to have somebody else there to bounce ideas off, to. Speaker 2 Place the blame on where things go. So, yeah, you know, whatever the case is. Speaker 3 It just made a great team. Speaker 4 I think there has to be a lot of things in place as far as characteristics goes. They have to be excuse me, they have to be willing to fail. And I think both of them are okay with with trying, repeating, failing, repeating, trying. You know what I'm saying? Speaker 3 I have no qualms with it whatsoever. They they are amazing in that regard. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 4 Which you cannot I don't think in that circumstance you can be successful unless you're willing to be courageous enough to try to fail, knowing that you're trying to create the best experience for those kids. And like they were talking about, they're still not there yet. Like you're still working through things that they think may take two weeks and it takes literally two days. Speaker 4 And they're like, What are we going to do now? Speaker 3 Because they never they never get satisfied with how thing, you know, even if things are good, they they are constantly saying, okay, how can we make some aspect of that better. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 And and that's why they continue to have the success that they've had. Speaker 1 Yeah. So why did. Speaker 5 You approach the two of them initially when you came up with this idea? Speaker 3 Well, you know, a humanities approach to things has it's not new. You know, we've had in many years past a social studies, you know, English block And it was really more geared towards the kids and they would have a two hour block and they would intermingle the readings and the in the study of social studies. And I guess I taught both regular and pre AP classes. Speaker 3 And I just kind of got to the point in my career where I said, we do so much for those upper level, you know, we go out of our way to make sure they have experiences. And then in there's the other end of that spectrum of the the kids who struggle. But we never approached that middle of the road, that everyday kid that are going to be the majority of the. Speaker 4 Majority of. Speaker 1 Kids. Right. Speaker 3 And so I was looking for those teachers who taught regular kids and that had good relationships with kids. You know, you got to have that start, you know, you got to have that at the beginning. And so that's where the. Speaker 2 Two that's where the two came from. Speaker 3 Is they just had a a great rapport with kids. Kids loved them. And if we have that to begin with, you know. Speaker 4 You can do anything. Like I've always been amazed and let's see if I can say this. Speaker 1 The most appropriate way. But if you. Speaker 4 As a teacher have a good relationship with kids and kids like you, you can you can do and say some things that teachers. Speaker 1 That are hated could never get away. Well, it's the truth. Speaker 4 I mean, because they like you, they know your heart. They know where you're coming from. Speaker 1 And. Speaker 4 They're on your side and they're for you. You know, it's huge. Speaker 3 I remember the first time I heard that sarcasm has no place in the classroom. Speaker 2 I thought, Oh my goodness. Speaker 1 What do I do? Speaker 2 I do with my next impression? You know, it's just like. Speaker 3 Yeah, because I was always I think it starts with the ability to, you know, something that you said about Cory and Melissa is that ability to fail, but also to laugh at yourself. Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes. Speaker 2 Because if you can. Speaker 3 Laugh at yourself and you can show yourself as a human with flaws. Speaker 2 And, you know, challenges and failures, when you in a maybe a cynical way, point those things out to kids. Speaker 3 They're fine with it. Think they also learn to laugh at themselves. You know, they don't take offense to it. They're not being judged and they understand that. So you're right, that relationship pieces is key. Speaker 5 Oh, yeah. And I was just actually in their classroom yesterday. They had asked me to come meet with some students there. They're going to run the Veterans Day program this year. And just to meet with this group of four kids who are going to be conducting video interviews and just giving them some advice on how to do that. Speaker 5 And I actually sat for, I don't know, maybe close to 10 minutes at the beginning of their class and just watched like I literally sat at a desk with some of the other students and just observed what was going on. And it's like there is a different level of confidence that those kids in that class have than if you go into a lot of other classrooms like they are just truly fully themselves. Speaker 3 Absolutely. Speaker 5 They can literally fell out of the chair. A kid who was being interviewed in the front of the classroom and he, like he totally embraced what had happened. And it was just it was awesome. Speaker 3 Yeah. And they don't come in there that way. They don't come in to that class with that confidence that you see even, what, six weeks, seven weeks into the year. And I do a little activity too with them and it's, it's one that gets them a little upset. So I have to play the you know, the bad cop, I guess, is how you would look at it. Speaker 3 And they will say things. Speaker 2 In that classroom. And to me that I know that. Speaker 3 I've instigated this. So, you know, I'm a little more accepting of what they say. And then, you know, it plays out and I come back in and there's so mess. I am so sorry. Speaker 2 What I what I was thinking about you and what are you do here? It's okay. It's okay. And but you're right. Speaker 3 They just they will open up and you just don't experience that. And you know, people who don't understand and in say, you know, in in I've heard it. Why are they getting all of this attention? Why is what they're doing so special? It's because you haven't been in there and seen. Yeah. Classrooms around them go. What is going on in there? Speaker 3 It's so loud. Speaker 1 And. Speaker 2 And. Speaker 3 You got to be a part of it at least once. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 3 To step it. Speaker 4 Kids you can't. You have to enjoy what you do Kids know like they know. Speaker 1 If you. Speaker 4 Want to be there and if you like them or not, you cannot fake that. I feel like there are people that think they can fake. Speaker 1 It. Speaker 4 And kids just. Speaker 1 Know there are. There are actually. Speaker 4 TikTok videos right now. There's this guy that he pretends to be an assistant principal that comes and sits down in the classroom and they make fun of him or a teacher, how they switch on and off on an assistant principal. Speaker 1 Yes, that's true. Yeah. Speaker 2 And pony show. Speaker 1 Pony show. But it's that. Speaker 4 They're just not even the dog and pony show as much as you know, they'll say some things and then an assistant principal kind of threw him that. Johnny, I'm so proud of you for, you. Speaker 1 Know, for trying that show. The kids are like, who is this teacher. Speaker 2 And how is do you do you have to be as a student to not pick up on those things? Speaker 1 Exactly. Kids can smell. Speaker 4 Fear and they know that you're not, you know, authentic. Speaker 1 And so that's what I love about that class. Those teachers are just they they're who they are. Speaker 4 The kids love them for it and they get that back out of the kids. The kids give that back. Speaker 1 Sorry, That was me. Hit the microphone. Oh. Speaker 2 My hands were in my. Speaker 5 This is the storm brewing over here. Speaker 1 Getting excited using your hand and everything. So can you. Speaker 4 Would you say that you're an anti teacher. Speaker 3 An anti Teeka. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 3 Oh, absolutely not really? Speaker 2 Yeah, I, I tried to explain this to to. Speaker 3 Teachers when they're talking to me about what they like to do in their classes and, and talking to Cory and Melissa to now Cory and Melissa and teach their teachers. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 But they don't talk. Speaker 2 About their teachers, if you know what I mean. Speaker 1 Absolutely. Speaker 4 And they're teaching what they needed to to teach. Speaker 3 Addressing what they need to address. And it's almost as though it's disguised so well. Yes, but kids don't come away thinking, oh, we just did a lesson on revision. Speaker 1 You know? Right. Speaker 3 I sat down with Miss Stevenson and we talked about my writing and now I've got to fix it. And so that's kind of the vein that they they come from. So I am a teachers person because I think that's primarily our job as teachers, right, To teach those things. Speaker 4 You do, you have to make sure that those kids leave that classroom with those skills because it's designed in such a way that then they then go on to the next level and then if they miss certain tweaks and they have holes and all that. And I guess tweaks have always bothered me because it's the end all. Like it always drove me crazy. Speaker 4 If you have a kid that missed ten days of school, say they missed. Speaker 2 Hopefully that's not the only time that mistakes are covered, but yes. Speaker 3 But you're right. There's there's you miss ten days of school, you're missing some material. Speaker 4 Missing some material. And it could be I mean, I guess it's I'm not going to get into this. I get I get the purpose of takes. I just think sometimes we have to be very realistic about, well, hold on. People mistakes all the time, like there are in life in general. If you miss for a certain day, you may be missing a tick. Speaker 4 But I see where you're coming from of it's going to be spiraled back through some other lesson in some other way. Speaker 1 So you would. Speaker 3 Certainly hope that, you know, that's not a one time. Speaker 2 Here's here's your shot It understand? Speaker 1 Listen, you're. Speaker 2 Going to be all right. Right. No, you get you got the opportunity. And I think sometimes to a fault because I've had students say to me, I don't know why we have to do this now. We did it in sixth grade. We did it in eighth grade. And we're going to do it again in college. Why do we have to do you know, to them it seems. Speaker 3 Repetitive and. Speaker 2 Redundant, you know, So we just want to say it's one more chance to get. Speaker 1 This right. Right. Speaker 4 And you're at a different level in life. So it might be that you're seeing it in a whole new way, right? Speaker 1 So yeah, I get that. So let's talk about. Speaker 4 What you believe in regards to learning, and we've heard some of this already, but in regards to learning and authentic experiences and how it's inspired you to do what you do today because you really. Speaker 1 Have a beautiful job as far as you. Speaker 4 Get to try to inspire teachers. And first of all, I don't think teachers would listen if they didn't respect the type of teacher that you were. I think we can agree on that. You're not going to carry much weight if you know you didn't take care of business and have some great results and connections with teachers and students. Speaker 4 But so I just want you to talk a little bit about how is that inspired you to do what you're doing and then how do you see it working at Friendswood High School? I'm assuming you're just at the high school. You're not helping other teachers in all other on all other campuses in our district. Speaker 3 I am not not per say. And I work alongside a group of people. We kind of have this scaffolded. I guess, network. And I'm part of a vital visionary team. I don't. Speaker 1 Know if you're familiar with the right. Speaker 3 And so what's so valuable and you talk about inspiring teachers, I don't think I would ever, you know, jump in and try to inspire someone who wasn't seeking that inspiration. And you can pick those people out because they they have this quest for learning and making the classroom for kids better. And so you can pick those people out. Speaker 3 I don't think I could ever be a person. And I know that this is kind of a movement in the coaching arena that you go into a classroom and you become the coach, so to speak, in that classroom for someone who had not, you know, sought me out and said, Hey, this is what I'm thinking about doing. How can we do this? Speaker 3 Because I love. Speaker 1 That. Speaker 3 I love that challenge. I'm not real fond of the challenge of going in and trying to inspire those who are quite content. Speaker 1 Right where they are. Right? Speaker 4 Having that buy in on the you need that buy in for their moment. I want to hear that. Speaker 1 Correct. Speaker 3 And and I like being that that idea person that was bounce ideas off of each other and what is exactly that you want to do? Why do you want to do that? I can I can be creative at that time. You know I'm not really good at I'm not a good salesman, if you will. I'm not here to to sell inspiration. Speaker 2 I like to see it and I like to take. Speaker 3 Advantage of it and say, Good, good. I like what I'm hearing. This is where we're. Speaker 1 Going, right? Speaker 3 That's that's the kind of role that I feel most useful in. But with this group of vital visionaries, it's great because I only have limited to those situations who either present themselves to me. But I get the opportunity to hear from, you know, science, from social studies, from math, things that their teachers are trying to do. And so it kind of opens up that that pool. Speaker 4 That's true. All different grade. Speaker 1 Levels. Different grade. That's right. So you are. Speaker 4 Working with all different age groups and working with all different types of curriculum. Speaker 1 Yeah. So you call. Speaker 5 Your this idea, especially like with Melissa and Cory, is that the school within a school? Speaker 1 No. Speaker 3 No, that is a did they have a name for what they did they ever identify the name of their class? Speaker 1 No History in English? Yeah, yeah. Speaker 3 Yeah. They weren't real big on coming up with a with a title, like. Speaker 4 An academy name or anything like. Speaker 3 That. Nothing like that. No, that's. That's the social Studies English program. And then I guess the, the school within a school is probably a little more recent endeavor and that was a focus on as before those regular everyday kids that were not, you know, chasing the GPA. What do we provide for them? What, you know, authentic experiences or learning environments where things are a little more personal and a little more relationship oriented? Speaker 3 That was kind of that that goal, that vision with this school within the school. Speaker 5 So what? What is school within a school? Exactly? Speaker 3 School within a school was a plan, like I said, to take those those every day. All right. Go. And you know, people say, well, it's kind of random that they you know, they're selected to be a part of this program. Well, it really isn't random. It's it's if you were signed up for regular English one, regular U.S. history, I mean, world geography, regular science, biology and the math, you're in it, you know, I mean, there's there's no kids that are not that are signed up for those four unless there is, of course, say, an extracurricular offer that will prevent them from. Speaker 4 Yeah, see, that's part of it. So there's a block in the day, right. Or is there day. Speaker 3 There is the block in the day. There is second, third, fourth and fifth. Speaker 1 So even you. Speaker 4 It would keep you from like if you were in some AP or pre AP that not going to work. Speaker 1 No. Yeah. No. Speaker 3 Because you have the same kids in all four. Speaker 1 Classes, Right. Speaker 3 And you get the opportunity then to the teachers. Speaker 1 Who know them. Speaker 3 And work with them and you develop that relationship because they all spiral through those classes in the in the course of those four periods. But in addition to that, if, if you had someone who was absent ten days. Speaker 2 Just say, for example. Speaker 3 And they caught up on their own, their social studies, their geography, but they need a little more help in math, you know, Griff would say, hey, keeping for two periods, you know, he can stay in there and you can work through. So it's a time flexibility, too, that allows for those kids to be successful. Speaker 4 Which makes so much sense because I know I've heard some of the conversations that came out of the school within a school is that one teacher will say, I'm really struggling. Speaker 1 With. Speaker 4 So-and-so student A and this teacher will. Speaker 1 Go. Speaker 4 Really? Like I find they are one of my leaders. They love to do this, this and this. But this teacher doesn't necessarily see that because it's a different subject and we all don't enjoy the same subjects and so they can talk about that. Student What do you find that you can hook this kid with? How can I also do the same in my. Speaker 4 Exactly. Speaker 3 He he puts his head down. He sleeps in my class. I don't know what are you doing differently? And you know, we we could as regular classroom teachers, you know, find reach out in find those teachers and say on any student, I'm. Speaker 1 Sure. Speaker 3 This just makes that piece a little more attainable. You know, and and they have they establish great relationships with these kids. They have, you know, weekly meetings and monthly meetings where they pull these kids who are struggling, saying, what can we do to make this better? And they document that all in. They meet with them again and they follow up. Speaker 3 It's it's just great program for keeping kids who may not have previously found an interest in school, a place where they can find success and see that, you know, there is a purpose. Speaker 4 To they just haven't for one year. Speaker 3 They just have them for one year. Speaker 1 Well, so. Speaker 4 What what year is it that they. Speaker 1 Did? Speaker 3 It's their freshman year. And I think that stemmed from all the research that, you know, if we're going to lose them. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 3 You know, if they're going to struggle, it's going to be during that transition from eighth grade to ninth grade. All right. You know, and you look at your kids in biology, just that the rates of kids that struggle at that time. And so she has an opportunity to say, okay, slow things down. I don't have to do everything by it. Speaker 3 This has to be done this week. This has to be then. So there's a lot of flexibility in that program. And I think it's been I think it's been very successful in the teachers who were in there really have a lot of respect for what they're doing. You know. Speaker 4 Do you see it moving to another grade or is it just so much to take. Speaker 3 On, you know, at the high school level once you get through those basic fundamental, what happens is kids start going to different math levels. Speaker 1 All right. Speaker 3 After that, you know, this is your move in level. This is where you are in in the track. And so after that, they start moving. And social studies is a three year, as you know. So they're just things that prevent it from working smoothly. Right. At different grade levels. They get a lot more options the higher up they go in the years. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 4 So if Karen Hillyer had her own school, I'm serious. Speaker 3 Erin Hill You would have had to have her. Speaker 2 Own school many years ago. Speaker 1 That if you had to have your own school, what would it look like? What would it. Speaker 4 Look like is the obvious question. But maybe how would it be different? Speaker 3 Oh, gosh, how do you say this? And I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I can assure you my school would be loud. Speaker 1 Mm hmm. Speaker 3 I mean, there would be lots of conversing and, you know, I don't know how many back when I was in the classroom, how many evaluations I had that had. Speaker 2 Words like controlled chaos, you know, so that the outside allowed. Speaker 1 Room is a productive room. So, yeah, I think so too. Speaker 3 I mean, it allowed room could not be productive. Don't get me wrong. You know, kids could be doing whatever. Speaker 1 They want to be doing. Yes. Speaker 3 But for the most part, if you walk into a classroom and groups of kids are interacting with each other over content or whatever it is that they're doing, allow room is a is a positive thing. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 3 Yeah. I get a little nervous in a quiet classroom. Even when I was teaching, you know, those first couple of weeks of school where kids are not. Speaker 2 You know, really sure of. Speaker 3 How to interact. And I would go, Guys, you're just too quiet. What? You know, what's going on. Speaker 4 But think about that. What is it? Quiet classroom mean? It means more than likely once one person's speaking or no one speaking, they're just trying to read on their own. I don't know. I mean, it's a it's a loud classroom is a is a sign that there's at least. Speaker 3 A connection of some sort and engagement. Speaker 1 Going on. Speaker 4 Cooperate action and yeah, you know. Speaker 3 Yeah, I like I said, nervous. When I get into a quiet classroom, I'm thinking there's a lot of disconnect going on here. And that's so it would definitely be loud. I think I would have a situation where you would see a lot of hands on making, producing, building activities in in all areas. And I struggle sometimes making that connection. Speaker 3 And I'm not going to and this is not any kind of stab at math at all, but it's really it's a struggle to do or to promote hands on authentic experiences with a math. Speaker 1 Class. Speaker 3 Because they, you know, there is so much linear structure involved. They have to learn this. They have to understand this formula before they can do this one. And it's it's kind of set up that way. And so to come in, in and promote work, why don't we give them a problem that they have to solve? And it's kind of like I used to call it a need to know teaching. Speaker 3 So you give them a problem and they can't solve it unless they. Speaker 1 Learn, right. Speaker 3 The process. And that's how you teach the process through that need to know. Speaker 4 And it's not. It's not. Let me teach the process. Speaker 3 And then have them do something and. Speaker 4 Then have them do something with it. It's you don't teach the skill until they need to know it. Does that make sense? Speaker 3 Oh, I think that's how especially for students, I think that is how things become relevant to them. Speaker 1 Well, because that's what. Speaker 3 They feel they need to know. Speaker 1 Exactly. Then yeah. Speaker 3 You know, they can go through the motions. They can do, but they're not really they haven't bought into that learning yet. And so that's that's kind of one of those the struggles I have is it just seems like lots of people foresee that that's a lot of time, you know, that goes into solving this problem. And I have a regiment. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 That I have to stick to. And so I think you would see a lot less regimented, right? You know, a structure, you know, I'm not, you know, dissing structure. I think there's certain degree of structure you would have. But as far as being here on this date, that never made sense to me ever. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 You know how you would say we have a test on this day? How do you know that your kids are going to have mastered that by that time? Speaker 1 Right. You know. Speaker 2 No. When you determine test date about two or three days after, you're. Speaker 3 Making sure that everyone has mastered what it is that you want them to understand. So that would be one component. I think my teachers would go home at the end of the day, not defeated, but very. Speaker 2 Tired because. Speaker 3 I think when you're teaching and you're teaching, well, it's tiring. Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Oh. Speaker 4 Mentally exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're trying to. Speaker 1 Solve. Speaker 4 Problems as they arise with groups all around your classroom and. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's and just think about the questions that kids in high school are going to ask that you cannot prepare. Speaker 1 For it, right? Speaker 4 You I mean, that's just part of it. Speaker 3 All the time. Speaker 4 All the time. Speaker 3 All the time. And do you have to know the answers to those? Not necessarily. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 But you have to guide them to find the answers to that because that that's part of the learning, too. And then I think my kids, the students, I think you would see a sense of purpose, you know, because I think kids for the most part, we talked a little bit earlier about they're saying we learned this in this grade and we're going to learn it again. Speaker 3 And, you know, there's so much repetition. I think that they would see that there was a reason for their learning, what they're learning. You know, there would be a purpose. That would be my goal. I mean, I could I could say that's. Speaker 2 The ideal, but I'm going to I'll deal driven person. Speaker 3 So that's what I think my school would look like. Speaker 4 And always think about. I see high. Speaker 1 Schools. Speaker 4 Today being more of a junior. Speaker 1 College look. Speaker 4 I'm always amazed that schools have a closing time. I mean, listen, I know people have lives and families and they have to go home, But I've always thought about, you know, having not workshops isn't the right word. Speaker 1 Maybe labs where. Speaker 4 Kids can after they go home and eat. Speaker 1 5:00. Speaker 4 At 6:00 to back up, they're working on the project that they need to work on, but do expect them to work on it here and then work on it at home just doesn't make any sense to me. It's never made any sense that our classrooms closed down. Right. You know? Right. I get it. You can't how do you. Speaker 1 How do you afford how do. Speaker 2 You afford that? Speaker 3 And that. Yeah, therein lies that question. But having those, you know, our kids search for places to go and have study groups and discussion groups and things where they can actually talk about their learning and they end up going to coffee shops or they end up going to someone's house and mom's cooking dinner. Speaker 2 For, you know, 15 now instead. Speaker 4 Of now. But isn't that great? Speaker 3 Is is a parent. Oh, it is. It is awesome. But yeah, you're right. Just just kind of an open come here and learn when. Speaker 4 And you do and you see that they don't necessarily want to shut it off either. Right? You know, they're like, hey, when are we going to get together, too? I mean, boy, you know, you've hit it, you know, hit the nail on the head when the kids don't really want to stop. Speaker 1 They're like, Let's work on this project early. Yeah. Speaker 2 And I've talked to many teachers and. Speaker 3 You know, when they talk about those positive experiences, this is when the bell rings. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 3 And kids go. Speaker 1 Oh. Speaker 4 I know. Speaker 1 Right? Oh, yeah. Speaker 3 It's already it's already time to go. And, you know, it's not like that happens daily. But, you know, when it does, it's just like, Yes. Speaker 1 Yes, got them. That's the sweet spot for sure. The sweet spot. Speaker 4 So another question, Karen, would you take attendance in your school? Speaker 3 So yes, but I wouldn't. Speaker 2 Count today's. Speaker 1 I can't remember Karen walking through the whole thing. Was Glavine Hilliard, you doing in your attendance today? And she's like. Speaker 2 Are I would get to the the end of the day just don't go tying it. I forgot again. Speaker 1 It was so great about that though. Speaker 4 You love to jump in and do your thing. I didn't it was it on the radar. Speaker 1 It really. Speaker 2 Wasn't right. I mean, along with a lot of that bureaucracy was. Yes. On the radar. Yeah, but no, that's not true. It really was just attendance. Speaker 3 And, you know, I. Speaker 2 Would get start we would usually start talking about things before class even started. And then there was the rare. Speaker 3 Occasion where I would. Speaker 2 Have a lull and I would go, candy, to take attendance the day, you know, And then they made third period attendance period. And eventually they just didn't give me a third. That was in my conference period. Speaker 1 Oh, that's serious. They just didn't even give you a. Speaker 2 Give me a third. Speaker 1 Period. Speaker 2 We don't want to stifle your instruction. You're just we're going to love it. Speaker 1 And that's my that that. Speaker 2 Just can't do that for everyone, you know? Yeah. Speaker 1 That's true. Oh, okay. So what are what. Speaker 4 Are we continuing to do in schools that would have no place in your. Speaker 1 School? Wow. Speaker 2 Oh, packets. I every time I think of the word packet and I know that paper is necessary still in in. Speaker 3 In some places for for working things through because sometimes I just like to have a notepad in front of me when I'm, you know, brainstorming. Oh yeah. You know, it's so hard to come up with a. Speaker 2 Flowchart to brainstorm that's just so silly. And so there are. Speaker 3 There are places for that. But, you know, I'll even walk down hall now and I will hear, we'll get out your packet. Speaker 2 And I'm just like, Oh, yeah, I get in. You know, it. Speaker 3 Can be very legit. It could be a reading maybe, you know, they photocopied the writing of something. And so I can't judge. Speaker 2 Every time the word back is said, but. Speaker 3 I just had this idea of when are we going to move? You know, how authentic is that? I don't know. In any job in which, you know, your boss comes in and. Speaker 2 Do a packet of. Speaker 1 Write. Speaker 2 You know, I just don't. Speaker 1 And so listen. Speaker 4 It may have its place. It's this is what I want you to do and I want you to fill in this blank in. But is that going to apply itself to life? And I mean, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, it's a time waster. It's a maybe it has its place If the teacher's not there and they can't instruct, and maybe they could still learn something with a packet. Speaker 4 But it's not what you want to see going on every day. Speaker 1 It's not a class, it's not your way. Speaker 3 And I can't say that that is something that we see at Friendswood High School happening every day, right? I can't say that because I truly believe we've got some of the best teachers in the industry. I mean, I don't know how we did it, landed them all here, but we do. Speaker 4 I would agree. I think I think a lot of that. I mean, teachers are phenomenal at what they do. They've also been given the A they've been given freedom to take risks and to try those things. Now, some people just don't like getting out of their box. And I don't know how you get around that unless you just make it a point to where you're setting goals with that teacher to say, Hey, I want you to work on this, you know, because there are teachers and some of them are great teachers and their kids love them, right? Speaker 4 But it's they. Speaker 3 Have that relationship. Speaker 4 They have a relationship piece. Speaker 3 But the the there's a disconnect between the relevancy of what's going on here and, you know, in those future lives of those kids. Yeah. And and a lot of that boils down to an in I've been in the industry for, what, 31 years. This is my 32nd year. And I think about I think back about how I progressed or. Speaker 2 Transition as. Speaker 3 A teacher and we all do what we know. Speaker 1 Right? Speaker 3 I mean, we teach how we were taught until, you know, something happens that makes you say, wait a minute, maybe this isn't the best way. And you know, I think that truly a lot of those who, you know, like you say, are kind of stuck in their box that's familiar to them. That's where they're comfortable, because that's that whole system they've been through right is that way. Speaker 3 And so you can you fault them for that. Can you try to stretch them, Right. Yeah, you can. And in most cases you do. You get them a little bit out of their comfort zone and they begin to try things. But it's so much easier with change. You know, we talk about change a lot. It's so much easier when you face those things that present challenges to you to fall back to, okay, I know this worked. Speaker 3 I'm going to go back and do it. Speaker 1 Again and it's. Speaker 4 Easy to do what you've done. I know there was a period of time in my life as a teacher that I wanted. Speaker 1 To. Speaker 4 Do it differently in my classroom. I didn't know how. I didn't want to admit that. I didn't know how. So what do you do? You got to do what everybody around you is doing. You got to just keep moving through the book. Speaker 3 Yeah. And I think that's why it's so important for teachers to, like I said, I'm not a salesperson and I want to go in and try to get them to buy into something. Right? Because if it's not from them, if they haven't, you know, if they haven't come up with a desire, they don't have the desire, then the first thing that happens is when something goes wrong, it's like, see. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 You know, in there's a finger to point instead of that whole idea that I want to try this. And if it doesn't work, I'm either into it enough that I'm going to keep trying or, you know, in some cases, okay, that didn't work. I'm going to go back to what did work for me. And so but but it's you don't want teachers to have that you know, they told me to try this and it didn't work because that's the that's the alt right. Speaker 3 That was me. Speaker 2 That's the goal was that the really good. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's exactly right. Speaker 4 I mean, it's that's part of the dilemma, I think, for teachers. Speaker 1 I think in. Speaker 5 Life, though, truthfully, like just fear in general, fear of change, we as a society, we we have a lot of fear of like getting out of our box, breaking the norm, you know. And so I think it's just it's just one of those things that could be applied to any industry trade or to any person. Yeah, sure. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 3 Because we have that that notion, especially in in a place like Friendswood, where we have had years and years of success. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 3 You know, you have that notion wheel opening. Speaker 2 You know, broken and you know, that whole concept. Speaker 3 Of why are we changing? And I think that we are starting to clearly see that these kids are not from the same mold. Speaker 4 They're not that. Speaker 3 That we came. Speaker 1 From. Right. Speaker 3 So to practice on them strategies that worked ten, 15 even, you know, maybe even five years ago. Speaker 1 Right, Right. Speaker 3 You know, and I hear all the time, well, don't worry about this. This is just a pendulum swing. You know, you get that because we do in pedagogy, we do kind of try things that have been tried before, but we learn more about those. And my my philosophy has always been. But we're no longer dealing with that pendulum sitting in the same place. Speaker 1 That was right. Speaker 3 The whole foundation that it sits on has shifted. And so, yeah, it may still continue to swing, but we're in a totally different place with kids and mind development and. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 4 And we just are we relevant? Are we relevant? Because there are so many ways that kids can learn to do things today that they don't need us to teach them in a year when they can learn it in this amount of time or on their own or in their own experiments, or do it like we have to stay relevant. Speaker 4 And that is scary because how do we keep I mean, there's just so much information in the world today how that's when we have to constantly keep redeveloping the way we teach and who we're teaching to. They're totally changing. I mean, I know it's it's. Speaker 1 Tough and. Speaker 3 It's not us. It's not about technology, right? No, it isn't. I mean, there's a lot to be said for technology, both positive and negative. And it's about creating experiences, whether those experiences are in an online format, you know, whether those those challenges are presented to them this way or in a team, you know, solve this problem environment. It's it's it's make it like you said it's making that relevant in making that current for them. Speaker 4 Art Costa. Speaker 1 Wrote a book. Speaker 4 Developing Minds and I love there was there's one part of the book that he talks about the The Art of making Thinking. Speaker 1 Visible. And I love that thought of. Speaker 4 With our kids How can we get kids to make their thinking visible? And it goes into, just in my mind, curiosity. So how to hook those kids to be curious, first of all. Right. Because they think there are so many other exciting things outside the door than in school, But then how. Speaker 1 To. Speaker 4 Train them, maybe a bad word. How do we help them to think visibly, just to talk with one another? And there's no question that question, you know, how do you work through whatever the creative thing is, take this cup and make it do whatever. Speaker 1 You know. Speaker 4 I gave one example to a kid at Klein, and I said, Well, what if you had to? It was a terrible example. Speaker 3 So let's share it. Speaker 1 With the world. I know I held up a. Speaker 4 Stapler and I said, So imagine you had to cook a meal with this. Speaker 1 Whatever stapler. Speaker 4 Exactly. Whatever it is. Well, they're very literal. Speaker 1 Mm hmm. Speaker 4 And she goes, Well, you would never cook a meal with a steak. Speaker 1 And it was gone. Speaker 2 And there was the end of a lesson. Speaker 1 Pretty much already guilty because it was so good. She was. Speaker 4 So quick. And she goes, well, four instance, do you know how to tie your shoe? Yes. Okay. We not teach you in school how to necessarily tie your shoe so you don't have to be in school to learn something. We do things, you know. Yeah. Speaker 1 It was a very quick example of the because they're saying. Speaker 5 You have to get a grade in order to learn. That's what that's what they were saying. And so they couldn't striking. Speaker 3 Concept in that. Yes. Speaker 5 And it and so they couldn't wrap their minds around it. And so I asked this young lady, I said, okay, well, did you get a grade whenever you learned to tie your shoe? She said, No. So what did you still learn to tie your shoe? She said, yes. You know, it's. Speaker 1 Like there's so many things. Speaker 4 That stapler in cooking was not easy. Speaker 5 But we learned from that mistake. Speaker 2 And I will never I think. Speaker 3 Yeah, I think you nailed it. I think, you know, when you talk about making learning visible, I've never seen kids actively engaged. When someone is up in the front telling them the most engagement comes when you ask the right questions of kids and they have to figure it out. Speaker 1 Yes, they they. Speaker 3 Have to communicate with each other to figure it out. And I know that they're there. There is a purpose for what we call that sage on the stage, you know, presentation of information to kids. But I think we truly have to put more focus on questioning than on providing answers. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a good point. Speaker 4 That's a good point. Which would cause them to think visibly it would cause them to. Speaker 1 Work through that out loud. Speaker 4 With one another. Speaker 1 Or build. Speaker 4 Or do it becomes more about that, the action, the. Speaker 1 Other things, right? Speaker 3 And then they come up with more questions, right? And then they come. And the more questions that they can answer themselves or, you know, learn, then, you know, the better the learning experiences for them. So yeah, I think that that is a that is a key component. Speaker 5 Which is really what you've done, you know, with like you said, with Melissa and Cory, like you came in and it wasn't this is what we're going to do. It's let's bounce ideas off of one another. We have some of our most fun planning sessions that we do in our communications department. It's Dana will say, and then I bounce off of that and then she bounces off and it becomes this great like ball of energy. Speaker 5 And that's like when when great things start to happen. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 3 And you think about the transformation of our student body and I think truly that we're moving in that direction. But right now we have this population of students that have come through a system that was not organized in that way, that, that, that was not the thought process of the instructors to get them to do that. And so and I think we're seeing changes in that now. Speaker 3 And so you go to the elementary schools and I think you're seeing some really exciting things happen. But but these are these kids who are, you know, freshmen, sophomores, juniors and seniors. They've come through a totally different system. And so in their minds, this is how school looks. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 And, you know, you're supposed to tell me, you know, I'm supposed to regurgitate it for you. And that's that's how it works. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 3 And so, you know, I always when I'm talking to kids and it's not really your fault. I mean, not a fault of anyone. Speaker 4 It's it's the way you've been trained. Speaker 3 It's just the way you've been trained. Speaker 1 Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Speaker 3 And so I think we're going to see some really cool things happening in the next couple of years of these kids coming up through our school system. Speaker 4 Will you even see the same thing sometimes with teachers when you ask them to do certain things? So like, well, how do you want that to look? Oh, yeah. Do you can you give me an example of I mean, I did it. Corey and Melissa had me come and do the this I believe speech, and I wanted to know what it look like to those. Speaker 4 It was very disconcerting for me that I didn't know. I didn't want to look like a fool. So what are other people? And I'm a big believer in be creative. Yeah, you can make it look totally different. Oh, yeah. But I needed to not look like a for in there going. Speaker 1 How'd that work for you? Well, you know what? Speaker 4 It ended up being fine, because I just told myself you're here to deliver a message. Kind of what was what? I felt like a part of me that I experienced and just kind of telling them, I want you to know this. So you know our love for kids. Speaker 1 Oh, absolutely. Speaker 4 I mean, so you can do anything and that sort of thing have have confidence and fail often, you know, sort of thing. Speaker 1 Laugh at yourself and yourself. Speaker 4 Yes. I mean, I. Speaker 3 Didn't give you a copy of the this, I believe book, too. Speaker 1 No, no. Oh. Speaker 3 No, that might have been helpful. But it was just a very I mean, there's so many unique. Speaker 1 Exactly. Speaker 3 You know, responses in that book. I think one of my favorite was what I this I believe I always tipped the pizza man and it was this two page essay about why it's important to tip your pizza delivery guy. Speaker 2 And it was. Speaker 3 So well done. It was just a very you know, it's not it doesn't seem like one of those monumental. Speaker 2 Topics that you would say. Speaker 3 This is. Speaker 2 Life changing. Right. Speaker 3 But it really did have a profound message in it. And, you know, anything that you could have said. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 Would have been a good example. Speaker 4 Yeah. Especially if. Right. You tie in your life and you tie in your experiences and why you now believe in that thing. Then once they make that connection, they get where you're coming from and who you are. Speaker 5 And when you're rooted in something, you don't need everybody else's approval of that thing because you're confident in the value that you have and the reason why you have it. Speaker 2 Because it is this, I believe. Speaker 1 Right, Exactly. Exactly. It's not. I think you should be. Yeah. Yeah, that is correct. Yeah, you're right. Speaker 4 So I asked Diane Myers and Kim Cole to weigh in on some questions. Speaker 1 How did you you. Speaker 4 Yes, I did. I was like Diane, because, you know, this is Diane's heart, right? Right. I mean, she. Speaker 5 Saw this shout out to Diane as you're listening. Speaker 1 We love you, Diane. We mean she does listen. Speaker 4 She does. Speaker 2 Started me on the road to. Speaker 3 Innovation. And she did. Oh, she did. She did. Speaker 1 Oh, I know. Let's be nice to her. Speaker 3 I know. Because she just came in and said, Does anyone want to go to a PBL? She was our assistant principal at the time. So, you know, when we go to a PBL training and I always. Speaker 2 Feel awkward when people ask things and nobody. Speaker 1 Responds, right? Speaker 2 And so I went, Sure, I'll go. Speaker 3 And I did. And it was, it was and. Speaker 2 Structurally altering for me, you know. Speaker 3 It changed everything. Speaker 4 So exactly what you believe in. I mean, it's that project based. Speaker 3 Our problem based. Speaker 1 Problem. Speaker 3 Things based, anything that gets. Speaker 1 Kids to. Speaker 3 Think for themselves as opposed to being fed. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 4 Yeah. When did that when did that change happen? Is it ten years ago? The Dow became pretty popular. Speaker 3 Maybe. You know, we were early on the end of Buck Institute. They become pretty world renowned now. Yes, but we were early on that end, and I want to say it was probably closer to 12 years ago. Maybe maybe it was ten. But yeah. Speaker 4 What what this was one of her first questions. What happens in schools today that frustrates students? Speaker 3 Oh, by far. I think it's the inability to see the relevance of what's being taught to them. I mean, I think that's got to be very frustrating. It just a total disconnect from the world that they live in outside of school versus what happens when they step into the school building. And right or wrong, you know, I'm just saying I think for kids and that is what's majorly frustrating for them. Speaker 1 Mm hmm. Speaker 4 Have you recently sat down and gone through an entire schedule with a student? Did you ever do that? Speaker 3 I haven't like the follow the Mustang thing. I have not. I have not. Speaker 1 You should try it. Speaker 3 Have you. Speaker 1 Done it? I have. Speaker 2 And I mean, I know I would be. Speaker 3 I don't know. How has the experience. Speaker 1 Been so difficult. Speaker 4 But I think part of it is a rebellion as an adult that I don't have to be here. That's some of it. Like as a kid, I never doubted going to school. Speaker 1 I loved reading. Speaker 4 Instruction. You didn't question it. I mean, which helps. It helps. I mean, you don't always want to be there, but you don't you can't not go to school. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 4 So what are you going to do? But to be in some classrooms where one, I felt dumb. And so that anxiety really comes up for you of, oh, I just fill these like I still like down there so that we're. Speaker 3 Not going to tell anyone that you don't understand. You're an adult. Speaker 1 For crying out loud. Speaker 4 Exactly. And those things come up and you realize, I know you do not. Not all I know we have great schools. We have great schools. And I've taught in several school districts. But just that it is tough, man. These kids sit in class and listen. I'm not every kids need to do it. There's beautiful there's they need to learn. Speaker 4 I'm not saying every kid should be in school, but it is not it is not easy to sit through class all day long, especially if it's a sit and get for people like me. Speaker 1 Who. Speaker 4 Become bored easily. I start thinking about other things. I'm A.D.D., you know, It's just like blah. It's interesting. It's interesting. Speaker 3 Yeah, I've not done that. I have sat in interviewed groups of students as they were leaving Friendswood on a panel and we talked about experiences that they had over the course of the four years. And what were your best experiences, What were your least favorite? And it really from the horse's. Speaker 2 Mouth. Speaker 3 It came down to those classes where we were challenged with a task, or we were we worked in teams to solve. Speaker 1 Problems. Yeah, as. Speaker 3 Opposed to those where we sat and. Speaker 1 Listened. Right. Yeah. Speaker 4 Definitely. Tell us about the magic that needs to happen between a teacher and a student to create that meaningful learning experience. Speaker 3 Oh, I think we somewhat addressed this earlier when we talked about that, that true relationship they have to see that teacher as not just a teacher, but someone who is truly invested in them. And that takes more than, I think, just coming in every day and going through a curriculum that, you know, you've been, you know, challenged to go through in. Speaker 3 And it really takes more than saying, you know, hey, Danny, how are you doing today? I think it truly takes those conversations that you have to have with kids when they're acting like jerks or when they don't turn something in four days in a row. You know, you just can't say, well, that's a zero, you know, as if they're learning anything from that because they're quite happy with taking a zero. Speaker 3 Right? You know, they are because it gets you off my back. But you've got to you've got to sit those kids down and talk about what that zero is saying more than just, you know, dropping their average 20 points each time they, you know, you got to have conversations and that that helps that relationship, that lets them see that you truly do care. Speaker 3 And I think. Speaker 4 That's all teachers learn that can all teachers learn that? Speaker 3 Gosh, I don't know I don't know. It's always been part of my makeup and part of the makeup of people that I interact with. They are just people, people. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 And so if I were to encounter someone who is awkward around other people, I would first question, Why did you get into. Speaker 2 This profession where you deal with young people. Speaker 3 Every day and you you are awkward around them, but we've all seen it. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 3 I don't know that it can be taught because I think it's an intrinsic, you know, personality that you you reach out and you genuinely care. Speaker 4 Right? Speaker 1 You have to. Speaker 4 Have the desire to want to do what you're doing or take care about those kids. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 3 So, yeah, I don't know. I wish it were teachable, you know, I know that we've gone through, you know, programs here, you know, capturing kids hearts and Yeah. And things that you should do. But I think that kids read through that as much as. Speaker 2 They read through the principal into the room and having a transition around, you know. Speaker 3 I think they read through that. You know, the I never had any qualms with our shaking hands with kids in the hall. But when it becomes mechanical and it becomes, I guess, not authentic, you know, they see that. Speaker 4 Yeah, that's a good point nothing against capturing kids hearts, but those courses are almost needed for those teachers that struggle with that skill, not the ones that got it down, the ones that got it down, got it down. Right. You know, it's a we need you to go take this course because. Speaker 3 You're all quarter. Speaker 1 Children. Speaker 2 You're you've been misguided in your profession. You know. Speaker 1 They needed that professor like you that as is your thing. Speaker 2 You do well. Speaker 1 Yeah, lots of it after hours. Speaker 2 But no, you know, I found myself. Speaker 3 After. Speaker 2 Capturing kids hearts. I found myself, you know, doing things. Like what are you doing? What are you supposed to be? But it was kind of an ingest. Yes. I mean, you. Speaker 1 Know, Yes, it goes along with your humor, right? Speaker 2 Goes along with being a person. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 And Yeah. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 3 So I don't I don't know about I think that there are lots of people in this world that find themselves in positions and in jobs that they don't truly enjoy. And that's unfortunate, too. But I mean, I think that's a reality. You know, I think you can be very talented and very smart at a subject area. And that doesn't necessarily make you a good teacher. Speaker 4 Oh, like you could be a great athlete and a terrible coach. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. I mean, it's the same, same, you know, thought it's a skill. I mean, it's a skill. It's, you know, for sure. So this was a great one. What are some good questions that we should be asking during an interview with new teachers? Give us a good way. Speaker 1 To share that one. Who put you actually. Speaker 4 Diane and Kim? Both. Let me guess. Speaker 1 That. Speaker 4 They both ask the exact same. Speaker 3 Question, trying to build interview questionnaire. Speaker 1 Apparently show me through London Water. How can we. Speaker 4 Capture teachers that believe like you? You know what the question. Speaker 3 It's it's the same problem you have with a one with a snapshot picture of a teacher performing in front of a classroom. It's there's a danger there that they're saying and answering. I mean, we've had people who interview really well who have turned out to be not so dynamic as they came across. I almost think that you need to ask them about experiences they've had with kids, struggles, challenges, you know, in in and not knocking. Speaker 3 What was your favorite. Speaker 2 Novel you know? I mean, I guess there is some literacy, you know, associated with. Speaker 3 Questions like that. But I think they need to come to the table with true interaction. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 Experiences they've had with with kids in students. And I kind of think to a degree they probably do that. I haven't sat on too many interviews, so I'm hoping that they're asking questions like, you know, if you had this situation or in the past when you've had this situation. But we interview lots of young, inexperienced green teachers. Speaker 1 Teachers. Speaker 3 So they don't have those. Speaker 1 Experience. Right. Speaker 3 And so then they are left to speculate how they would handle something like that. But you can learn lot from a person based on their speculation of how they would handle things. So they want an exact question. Speaker 4 They they're asking if you have any good questions for when you interview teachers or interview. I see it as interviewing someone new to the teaching profession. Maybe not. I guess you could be coming from a school where you've been a teacher for ten years. But what question would kind of I think what you just said did? Speaker 1 It kind of answer that. I think so, yes. Speaker 5 Gotcha scenarios. Speaker 3 Yeah, similar. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 4 Scenarios. Speaker 3 Scenarios that you've experienced. And if you have to go on a on a hypothetical. Speaker 2 You have to speculate how you would respond. Speaker 3 To something. I think listening to and you know, it's stay away from those buzzwords that. Speaker 2 You know what I'm talking about, those those canned responses. Speaker 3 I think you have to I would want to see someone I was interviewing as a human being, as a person, I don't want to hear some canned pedagogy. You know, those type of responses, those would bother me right? Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 3 It's when I'm talking to people and they say things like, So what I hear you say. Speaker 2 Including, Oh, we got at a Dale Carnegie, you know, it just it bothers things bother me. I don't see them as real authentic interest questions. Speaker 3 If you have to speak to someone that way right. Speaker 1 Okay. Speaker 4 So are you ready for some random questions? Speaker 1 No, no. So everybody, it's going every every interview. Speaker 4 I end with just some random. Speaker 1 Okay. Speaker 3 Filter. Speaker 4 What What do you think is the best invention in your lifetime? Speaker 3 Oh. Oh, that. The personal handheld device. Yeah. Best and worst, don't you think? Best and worst. I mean. Speaker 4 I know. Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. Don't Get me on my social media. Like, you know, I've always said, Gosh, this phone has so many uses in just to look at my 83 year old father, use the phone. I mean, granted, he struggles with the fingers and, you know, the little iPhone screen, but it's just amazing. Speaker 4 Amazing what. Speaker 3 We can do on that little screen. So I think by far. Speaker 4 Even watching the little ones that don't have, they never had instruction with it. It's fascinating. It is to watch them just know how to swipe and. Speaker 3 Mm hmm. Yeah. I'm so sorry that I didn't come across of some, like, medical my own only. Yeah. Speaker 5 My mind when it first hand. Speaker 1 I have to go with that. Speaker 5 Like the world is in the palm of your hand, Right? Speaker 1 Letter. Yeah. Speaker 4 It is. It's amazing. What makes you feel like your best self? Speaker 1 Wow. Speaker 3 What makes me feel like my best self? Like, when am I feeling the best about myself? I think when I've made a positive difference in any scenario, it can be as simple as giving a friend advice and you see that a ha or it can be, you know, teaching someone something, you know. And I don't do that very often. Speaker 3 I don't necessarily teach per se, but I think when when people get excited about things because of something that I have either said or. Speaker 1 Asked. Speaker 3 I think that's when I feel best about. Speaker 4 You have to feel great. Like just even been working with Melissa and Corey, I know that was a long time ago, but to see. Speaker 2 That daily, we're meeting tomorrow. We have a day off to meet tomorrow. So yeah. Speaker 1 Do you really? Speaker 3 Yeah. And it's I get excited about it every time. Speaker 1 That, you know, I. Speaker 4 Could come. I'm telling you, those are some of my favorite people. Speaker 5 My gosh. Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, it's. And you realize you're made for education when you can sit down and you, like, get in this exciting zone. Speaker 1 Of this is going to be awesome. I know. Speaker 2 You know, And everybody leaves the room with that. Speaker 3 Energy and that. Speaker 1 Yes, yes. Speaker 3 Enthusiasm. Yeah, absolutely. I love working with I mean, I love any time that, you know, teachers will come and say, hey, we're going to have a day off to play in that at at our you come because I get more inspired than I am inspiring, I can assure you. And so, yeah, absolutely. Speaker 4 If you could change one thing about education, it would be just one. So that's a pretty powerful let's say you're given the opportunity to change. One thing about education and. Speaker 3 I think it would be now we're talking about public education in the United States. Okay. Because, you know, years I think it would be this this idea that we have deadlines that we have to meet and that everyone is going to be there at the same time, I just, I guess, struggle with that. And I probably have struggled with it more now that I've been, you know, latter years in the classroom and out of the classroom than I did when I was coming up. Speaker 3 I just I kind of went with the norm. You know, this is when we this has to be done. We have to move on. You know, I've heard we have to get to the end of the book by the end of the year. Speaker 2 Good luck with that. And how much of that is going to stick. Speaker 3 And so I just don't like this whole idea of of having set deadlines. Speaker 1 That. Speaker 4 Everyone meets at the same lines at. Speaker 3 The same time. Speaker 4 It's kind of. Speaker 1 Silly and. Speaker 3 You kind of about that when you talked about the end of the school day and the end of the school, you know, yes. Speaker 4 At some point I know. Speaker 3 Yes, there has to be a point. We can't go on like this, you know, indefinitely. You know, at the end of your freshman year. Yes. You should have mastered these certain things. But I think sometimes we need to limit what those certain things are, that we hold them accountable for mastering, because if we're holding them accountable, everything, I mean, how do we do that? Speaker 4 That's my problem with ticks. You just said you just said my problem with ticks. Speaker 1 Okay. Speaker 4 I how can we say you have to master these teeth and then we're going to move on to these. And and we know for a fact that there are some kids that have it. But we got to keep going. Which is what you're talking about. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 3 Yeah. Why? Why do we set those? And I think sometimes if we limit those to, you know, we're working on right now, some of those essential those pieces that are okay as a freshman, these right in English, these are the essential, by gosh, when these kids leave my class, if they don't capitalize the letter, I. Speaker 1 I mean, that sounds. Speaker 2 Like a silly example, but. Speaker 3 They don't. And if they don't do that, then send it back right. They should. And so it's just that when you have, you know, seven pages of things that the state says, this is what you must master in your I mean, there's no way, right? I mean, there's not enough time. Speaker 4 We can pretend. Speaker 3 We can pretend, right. You know, in in I tell teachers all the time just because you taught it. Speaker 1 That's how they learned. Speaker 3 It. Yeah. You know, so it's kind of one of those things like these are the things they're going to learn, period. And then, yeah, so it's kind of that deadline that, that end point. Speaker 4 Okay, finish this sentence I am most proud of when I. Speaker 3 Took attendance back in the. Speaker 2 Beginning. Speaker 3 I am most proud when I when I see someone else thrive. I think that's what I'm most proud. Speaker 1 If you could have a billboard with. Speaker 4 Anything on it. Speaker 1 What would it say? Speaker 5 We might need to turn the filter on this one. Speaker 1 In all fairness, if you could have anything on the billboard, I bet it would be pretty fun. Speaker 2 You know, it probably would be. I can be profound with this one, but I can just I can say something like I have on my wall, in my in my office. And it's not just one of those things you put on your wall. It's one of those things that you truly believe in. It's not like, you know, be kind. Speaker 2 We know when you can be it. It's not. It's like the most dangerous words. Speaker 3 In the English language. It's always been done this way. And so I think that that is one of the things that I and it's kind of a promotion of change. Speaker 1 Yes. But it it's so appropriate for you this half. Speaker 2 It's also one of those things that we can't continue to. Speaker 3 Things just because. Right. It's always been that way. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 3 And, you know, don't change for the sake of change. True. But realize when it's necessary. So that would be okay. Speaker 1 Last question. Speaker 3 Okay. Speaker 4 We always end with this question. So complete this. It's one thing I know for sure is. Speaker 2 I can see my retirement. Speaker 1 And that that's exciting. Speaker 2 It is. Yeah. We took I my husband and I took a practice retirement trip. He's been retired for four years now and wow. Speaker 3 But I took one like in the middle of the year. Speaker 2 You know. Speaker 3 We went up to Montana. And I can honestly say that the whole time I was there, I was not worried about whether or not I was getting emails, whether, you know, I just shut. Speaker 1 It off to. Speaker 3 See if I could do it. Speaker 4 And yeah, I could. Speaker 1 I could. Speaker 4 Came easily. Speaker 3 You know, people always said, you know, when you're going to be, you know, when you're ready. Right. And up to this point I was just like when school started, I was ready to come back. I think after these last couple of years, kind of like, okay, I can see me getting to that point where I don't need that. Speaker 3 You know, I can be fulfilled with other aspects of my life. And I guess, we all get to that point. Speaker 4 So that's the end of the questions. But I have to say this idea before we wrap it up, because I thought about you, what is the term So I know you like to go camping or RV? Is it RV? Speaker 3 I don't know. We have a pull behind trailer, so, you know, we don't drive a big, you know, class. Speaker 4 But yeah, and this probably isn't the best question now that you said you're really seriously thinking about retirement, but can you imagine an RV camp where teachers would come here serious? Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh. We would make so. Speaker 4 Much money so they would come for professional development. And so during the day you'd be outside, you'd be doing professional development, hands on kind of stuff at the night, around the campfire. Can you even imagine? Speaker 1 Please, Please. Teachers are just awesome areas. Oh, hilarious. Hilarious. And then you would get paid to host this camp. Speaker 3 And that would be pretty cool. Speaker 1 Wouldn't that? Speaker 2 That would be fair. Speaker 3 I would probably be more entertained. Speaker 2 Than I have ever been, and my. Speaker 1 Teachers would flock all around the. Speaker 4 Country to come to this profession professional. Speaker 1 Do you think? Speaker 3 Oh, can you imagine having to plan all those activities? Speaker 2 I mean, it would be fun. It would be a couple years in the making. And it would be it would be a blast. Speaker 4 Well, listen, if you're looking for your next profession, I will give it to you for free. You can have. Speaker 1 That I have. Speaker 3 Your idea. Speaker 1 And have the idea. Speaker 2 I'll I'll talk to my husband about it. Speaker 1 He invited. Speaker 2 Thank you so much, dear. Speaker 1 Awesome. Thank you for coming spring to the coming. You bet is great.