Women United ART PODCAST
Welcome to Women United ART PODCAST, a show dedicated to women artists from all around the globe!Listen to our inspiring episodes in which we'll dive deep into all things art as well as mindset-related topics that will help you grow you art practice and your business. Stay tuned for empowering interviews with fellow artists, gallerists and curators who'll kindly share their experiences, advice, tips and tricks. This podcast is hosted by Mona Lerch, a visual artist, artist coach and founder of Art Mums United, Women United ART PRIZE and Women United ART MOVEMENT.
Women United ART PODCAST
Art as a Vehicle for Change with Debbie Morton
In the last episode of Season 3 of Women United ART PODCAST, we are thrilled to feature Debbie Morton, gallery owner, curator, and art advisor, who is also the guest curator for Women United ART MAGAZINE Issue IX. As the visionary behind Morton Contemporary Gallery in Philadelphia, Debbie has built an art space driven by a commitment to equity, inclusion, and social impact. With a diverse roster of around 35 emerging and established artists from around the globe, the gallery showcases innovative mixed-media works that span painting, sculpture, photography, and more.
Join us as Debbie shares her journey from a childhood surrounded by art to her career in documentary filmmaking, and ultimately, to founding Morton Contemporary Gallery. We dive into her ethical and aesthetic approach to curation, her passion for supporting artists of color and female artists, and the political causes her gallery champions. Debbie discusses the gallery’s involvement with organizations like the Giffords Foundation to combat gun violence and its dedication to prison reform, highlighted by recent exhibitions and an upcoming residency program for incarcerated artists. This episode is an inspiring exploration of how art can be a powerful vehicle for change.
Debbie Morton & Morton Contemporary
www.mortoncontemporary.com
This show is brought to you by Women United ART MOVEMENT, a global platform highlighting women in the arts through a wide range of opportunities such as solo and group exhibits, annual art prize for women artists, and quarterly publication.
www.womenunitedartmovement.com
@womenunited_art_movement
@womenunited_art_magazine
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Speaker 2:Welcome to Women United Art Podcast, a space dedicated to women artists from all around the globe. Together we'll dive deep into all things related to our art practices and life experiences. Stay tuned for tips and great advice from incredible women who are killing it in the art world. My name is Mona Lurch . I am a visual artist, artist, coach, and founder of Women United Art Movement. And I'm inviting you now to be the choreographer of your own life. I hope this podcast will inspire you and help you navigate through the next steps in your art career. And with that being said, let's begin our journey together.
Speaker 1:While
Speaker 3:Welcome to another episode of Women United Art Podcast. We are nearing the end of season three, and I'm really excited that I get to chat with our today's guest, whom I got connected a couple of months ago , uh, through a mutual friend. Not only is she a Philadelphia based gallery owner and curator, but also an extraordinary woman with former career in documentary filmmaking. I'm thrilled to introduce Debbie Morton of Morton Contemporary Art Gallery. Debbie , welcome on the podcast.
Speaker 4:Oh , thank you so much, Mona. I'm really happy to be here .
Speaker 3:Be here . So first I'd like to talk about your background a little, because I think all our experiences shape who we are today. So I know you studied literature, spent a year on a fellowship in Jerusalem, then earned your masters in , um, comparative religion before starting your career in documentary filmmaking. And as I mentioned, you are now a gallery owner, curator, and art consultant. Can you take us back to your early experiences with visual art and how has this love for the arts became a dream career of yours?
Speaker 4:Oh , thank you. Um, yeah, I definitely had a very non-linear path. And , uh, not that I can always recommend it, but definitely a life that's been more , uh, shaped by passion than practicality. But it's been a pretty wild ride. So, in short, I went from college to the Middle East for a year because I was very, very interested in religion, in communities of faith, spirituality. Uh, I , having been raised with a Jewish father and a nonpracticing Catholic mother, there were a lot of questions and a lot of unanswered questions for me. And I was just, I , I was not one who was born of faith. So I was very, very curious about people who were living lives and identities that were really structured primarily around their faith. So with that, that in combination with storytelling, you mentioned I was an English major, so I always loved stories. And the combination led me from you to sort of a very luxurious and, and wonderful year , uh, exploring in Jerusalem for a year. And then I hightailed it back to the States. I spent a year in Hollywood, and then I ended up three years in divinity school at Harvard Divinity School. So it was in my forties that I began to understand my path. But , um, I've always been a very late bloomer, but, but there's no question. The narrative thread for me was story exploration. And then I landed from graduate school. I landed , um, myself on a documentary, which was , uh, a four hour documentary that was being produced through Frontline. It was just an incredible coincidence that they were in need of a senior researcher. And I happened to be in divinity school at the time. This documentary was a four hour series on the life of Jesus. And it's an amazing film. It's called From Jesus to Christ. So it really was the story of how a man became a God. So that really was the thread that led me more directly into the arts. I had been in theater and, you know, when I was a little girl, I'd always play house, and I wanted to be Deb . I wanted to be Linda , the artist. I mean, it was sort of always in my path. My mom was an actress , uh, for a time. Um , my aunt was an actress, and there was just something about the world of film and storytelling that really appealed to me. So I , I , I left my graduate program because I finished with a master's , not the PhD, because I really was not cut out for the life of the mind exclusively. And when I entered filmmaking, it was so much more robust and, and just really suited my personality , um, in a way that I, I would recommend that to everyone. Side note is , um, it's really, I think it's important in addition to doing things that you love, do things that you're actually really good at , <laugh> , things that , that that kind of fit with your personality. It, it really , um, the combination is great. So in any case, I ended up on this film, this Life of Jesus film, and then worked in, ended up becoming a writer, director, producer for documentaries for 15 years. So, you know, that when I transitioned into the art world, you know, people always asked me, why did you leave? You know, that's, that's such a big jump. Why did you leave television filmmaking for the art world? And my answer is, it's actually really not a big jump because they're both highly visual mediums, and I find they're both businesses. My my position on filmmaking was that it's 80% roughly business and maybe 20% storytelling. And so similarly in the art world, there's so much business, but there's also so much storytelling. And it's also done through this incredibly gorgeous, multidimensional medium called painting, sculpture , um, photography. So I really kind of see it as a, an interesting segue from one to the other. And yeah, it's been an interesting ride.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for sharing a little bit about your journey, and I absolutely love that because I come from a family with a history of , um, careers in , on TV and, and filmmaking as well. And, you know, it really resonates with me what , what you explained, what you describe your gallery was scheduled to open in March, 2020, and a few days before that, the world shut down. And I remember vividly the train journey from Prague, because I'm based in the Czech Republic on March 9th, when I had a meeting with the curator of my first solo exhibit that was supposed to take place two months later, only to read the news that public spaces were limited to a hundred people and then to 30 people, and then a full lockdown. None of us expected . So I wanted to ask you, what was it like for you to navigate this challenge?
Speaker 4:Oh, boy. Well, I can completely commiserate co commiserate with you. So I had, I had a gallery in which I was , uh, partnered with a group in France, and it was , um, a wonderful experience and it really was what gave me a foundation in the art world. 'cause I had really previously didn't have any. And I licensed a concept out of France called Kare Doist . And I had that for five years. I terminated that agreement, wanting to open up my own , uh, gallery. So all of that was done in 2019. So I had my new space, I had my new lease, I had my build out . We were ready, we were slated to open the new gallery, which would then have been, you know, my own on March 16th, 2020, the city of Philadelphia ironically shut down. It was Friday, March , uh, Friday the 13th , uh, March, Friday the 13th, everything shut down. So there was a six month period where , uh, we waited at home like everybody else. But the good news is my landlords were incredible, and they worked with me. And , uh, we launched a really, actually, very successful, there was no one at the opening <laugh> per se. But at that point, we really had to hone the business and learn how to work virtually work online . And it , there was a huge learning curve. And, and actually it was, it was awesome. It kept me busy. It kept me really busy during the pandemic, which was great.
Speaker 3:And I think it, it, as you said, it opened so many other possibilities for us. And, and, you know, we had to learn new things and , and it was an adventure as well. At the same time.
Speaker 4:It was such an adventure and, and we did some pretty wild things. Uh, so we were, throughout the whole George Floyd tragedy, we, I was at that point, we were able to kind of, as long as we stayed inside, and we weren't actually open for business at that point, we were still in lockdown, but we were kind of getting things together. So it was a , it was pretty crazy. We had to board up on more than , uh, two occasions due to rioting and, and violence in the city. I also launched, once the city opened up, there were a lot of empty spaces around us. Um , you know, very sadly, a lot of businesses , uh, had to close their doors. But what we did, there was a shop adjacent to us. Now, the lockdown was now technically lifted, though. There were still very serious restrictions. And , and the town was pretty much a ghost town. But we did something really cool. Um, I took over the spot next to my location, which was also boarded up, so no one knew necessarily that we were there. So it was a word of mouth sort of introduction. And then we had to be very careful as to, you know, the numbers of people we could let in. But I had befriended the , um, a couple years prior, the owner of the mc Escher Estate, he and his partner owned, had purchased , uh, the majority of the estate in 1970. So we opened up an a secret Mc Escher popup next to my main gallery, both of which were kind of undercover. But we actually, we moved a lot of art. We moved a lot of Cher's, and we moved a lot of the wonderful emerging and mid-career artists that I was representing. And I think in part, I mean, COVID was very good to the art world, is what I find. I hear that repeatedly from my artists, because so many were home. So many weren't spending on their other luxury items. They couldn't do or go anywhere. And so many had these really bare walls behind them during all their Zoom sessions. So we , uh, began, actually, we carted artwork out to more people than I could count, and I would leave it in their garage. Not the ushers , the ushers , you had to come in and actually see those at , you know, hands-on with us. But we did a lot of deliveries to people where I would leave four or five, 10 pieces of art in their garage, I'd drive away. These were people that I had some relationship with, and then we'd come back and pick it up. Maybe they'd keep some, maybe we'd pick 'em all up. But there were so many, so many , um, interesting challenges to navigate and some really cool moments. The Escher was a highlight for sure.
Speaker 3:So I think a lot of artists and people in general see this romanticized film version of a gallery owner who sits in their space and talks to artists and potential clients. But the reality is quite different on so many levels. So let's talk about what it actually takes to run an art gallery. And in what ways do you think Morton Contemporary is unique?
Speaker 4:Oh, that's such a good question. Well, in , in terms of, I'll just respond quickly to your, briefly to your question about uniqueness. I think if there's any way, and it's a really good question. Um, I think one thing that we do do that is unique is we're an incredibly friendly, congenial open gallery and open space. And I do note that , um, it was a desire of mine to offer, you know, really to create a space where anybody is welcome and people can really not feel intimidated. I, you know, know, require my staff, not only do you make eye contact and give folks an intro, but you get out of your chair and you actually greet people. I find , uh, the stuffiness of, you know, certain regions of galleries, you know, let's say in Chelsea where people don't make eye contact, they really don't move from their chairs. It's, it's a very different kind of alienating approach. So we're really accessible in that way, which I feel really good about in terms of, your second question was sort of just the realities of, of running a gallery. Wow. It's really, it's incredibly fulfilling and it's incredibly hard. There's no two ways about it. And, and actually, you know, I think my situation, having opened up two locations during a pandemic, presents a unique set of challenges. So I can't really speak to having opened in a strong, healthy, you know, global economy if things would be, have been different. But , um, from what I understand, it's a , you know, any business to be successful in, it's, it's hard. It's just, it's a lot of work. It's an incredible amount of commitment. I , what I've done, which I think has made us, has really given us a degree of success , um, is I've really explored more than one platform as a model to sell art. So that is why I took on two spaces, and I did take on the second space during Covid because there were some great deals out there, you know, for real estate. So , um, my primary model, which were street level , I represent a approximately 40 artists, and these artists are on permanent rotation with the gallery. So there's, there's that reality. So that is not a space where I do a show that is a space where people come in and they're routinely, you know, we change out the art and swap things around , um, at least once a month. And, and I have what is, you know, in that sense , um, one style, one model of a gallery . Then in my second location, I have solo and group shows. So that is the other, another model of a gallery where, you know, people are invited for an opening reception. We have programming around a particular exhibition. We do our reception close, we're open, you know, that that show may run for four weeks. I had a very, very successful show, which opened the first time I've ever done this. It was so successful. It opened in November of 2023, and we kept that up through, till we shut that down in March of 2024. That was such a long run because, well, that's another story. I'm happy to share that with you. But, but I found that having those two models has been , um, incredibly helpful to kind of get our name out and for, to , to get people to , um, you know, to know who we are. It's not that the two are necessary by any means, you know, it's typically one or the other, but it is helpful. And then the third is an online presence, right? So utilizing both Instagram and our website , um, to sell artwork is pretty critical , uh, in this day and age, especially post covid. So I kind of see it as three very distinctive strategies to sell art. And , um, I know that they're all for me at this point. All they're pretty necessary , um, avenues in order to, to remain strong.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for sharing all that. And I'm really happy that you mentioned, you know, the gallery staff making eye contact with people who walk in the doors, because I've been visiting a lot of different galleries around Europe, mainly in London and Paris for the last two years. And what I find really, like, distracting maybe, is that, you know, if you walk into a store and you have immediately like the stuff like on you, you know, asking you questions, what would you like to purchase? Whatever, it might be too much. But in the gallery settings, I, I would really appreciate if someone actually like made the eye contact and say hello. If you have any questions about the artists that you see here, feel free to reach out. And then, you know, let me walk around and have a look, and if I have questions, I feel like I'm welcomed there. Um, and it doesn't happen often, so I'm really happy that you mentioned that.
Speaker 4:You know, it's, it's really true. And I , um, I also learned a wonderful expression , um, from my , um, my partner in the Mc Escher Estate, and he said, you know, people don't buy art, they acquire art. And as such, you, it's really about helping people connect with imagery and beauty that they love that makes 'em feel good, in which, you know, there's an emotional response when they look at it. And I find that, you know, when giving people an introduction to the space, it's so important, you know , and making that personal connection, but really, really not trying to sell people on anything, you know? So there's that delicate balance where you want people to explore, you wanna give them time to connect. And, and one question also that I tell my staff and that I found is really true. I don't ever ask anybody, what is it you like? That's a really hard question, and it's an intimidating question. And for most people who, you know, listen for, yes, for the serious collectors and buyers, you can ask that question, but for most, it's a, it's a hard question. And I, I've noticed when asked people fly out the door, so I really kind of work to help my staff and myself understand the importance of giving people time, giving them space, but making them feel super welcome. And it's a , it is a really nice combination. And , um, and you know, like anything else, it's a business of relationships. So it just helps , uh, with that approach to sometimes just to begin the conversation.
Speaker 3:And I think also, like from the point, because I'm also a visual artist, so from, from the side of the artist, I think a lot of us tend to get really excited about different galleries and we really want to be represented by them. But I think a great step would be to go in and see the environment as well. Because if you think about it from the other side, you want to have a welcoming environment for your art. So if, you know, we see a gallery, for example, where the staff is just like sitting behind the desk, not looking at the people who walk in, then they're not really actively sort of advocating for you, if you know what I mean. Like, that is my feeling when I, when I sort of like walk in and I'm thinking like, well, you could do a little better for this artist. Like, let's talk about them <laugh> .
Speaker 4:Right? It's that passivity. Yeah. I, I couldn't agree with you more. And you know, I think that's a wonderful point. I know it would be an incredible luxury for every artist to kind of, especially if that gallery, I mean, I have artists literally from all over the world, and there's no way that they can all come to me. But there are other things we can do as gallery owners with artists who are interested. I think it's a great point. Speaking to now, the artists kind of, you know, from , from looking at the artists , not the clients is , um, doing a FaceTime and walking them through the space. Uh, I also recommend to artists call other artists who are part of that gallery, vet the owners, you know, find out who they are, find out how their market's been, find out how supportive they are, you know, how proactive they are on your behalf. Um, I recommend that to, to my artists . If anyone ever has a question, I say, Hey, you know, I know certain artists I've got, I , they're okay with my say , Hey, here's their name and number. Give them a buzz. And that's , um, I, I think it's just, it's, you know, like anything, the more information you have better able, you are better equipped. You are to make a decision.
Speaker 3:And I think that's a really important part of the research as well for the artists , because that's actually what I've been doing when I see , um, various spaces, you know, whether it's online galleries or physical spaces, I always look at the artists , um, they exhibit and they represent. And when I see someone I know, for example, I would go and reach out to them and, and ask, listen, like I see a lot of your work on their website being sold. What has this been sold through, you know, the services the gallery provides, or was it separate and it's just listed as sold? And, and you know, like that answer is important for me as well when I'm trying to like, think about marketing of my work and, and stuff like that. So I think that's really important to , to ask around and not be afraid, even if you just know the person from social media. I think, you know, we are all trying to help each other pretty much these days. And, and, you know, I'm open to discuss things with strangers as well, because I just love sharing my experiences and I think it's, it's the case of most people. So , um, don't be afraid to reach out to people and ask around. So one of the services you provide is commercial art consulting. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Speaker 4:Yes, yes. That's okay. Ooh , and thank you, because that was a strategic fourth prong of my model. So, you know, so the two locations online, and I forgot to mention the very critical and wonderful and super fun strategy of art consulting. I started out doing , um, primarily local offices, local businesses, a a pharmaceutical company, you know, maybe 20 pieces for a huge lobby. Um, have done various healthcare facilities, a WeWork space , you know, just a variety of smaller scale spaces. But what opened up for us, just by, and this is a great little story actually, you know, the, the , I tell my children this all the time because some of the best opportunities I've had in life have been exactly what you said in speaking to and connecting with a stranger. So I tell my kids, when you're on an airplane, don't just wall up and put your headphones on and, you know, at least greet the person next to you. Say hello. You can have a few minutes of conversation. Well , I was at the Ruble Museum art open in , uh, for the week of Art Miami, art Basel in 2019. And I'm literally at a garbage can tossing out my drink along with another gentleman who's tossing out his drink and, you know, just saying hello and chitchatting it . Well, fast forward that conversation led to two years later my , um, being the exclusive art. Um, I did the art acquisition curation installation for a 500 unit luxury building in Washington, dc which was on the same, is on the same campus as the new Rebell Museum. So , um, it was just really from that networking and that moment, that was really, that changed my game as far as art advisory goes because it introduced art advisory on a, on a massive scale, and that is now becoming our niche. So that led to the project, for example, that I currently have. I have a nine story building in Washington, DC on Embassy Row. Um, it's also a luxury building, this particular building, it's a senior living facility, sort of the four seasons of senior living , uh, nine stories. We're doing all of the art in every public space , uh, throughout the building. And , um, it's so, so much fun. And what's interesting in these kinds of the companies that are willing to really open up a significant budget for art at that level, what I've learned is they are really serious about art and collecting. So , um, I learned so much from the owners of these companies , um, because we, we work really, really closely to figure out kind of a brand strategy and a , a vision , uh, and how it can all sort of, how the art can tell their story. And so once again, we go back into that storytelling piece. So the fact that I wrote for television for 15 years, I feel like I utilize that skill all the time, even in large scale curation, because there has to be a thread that pulls things together. Just like with a show, with an exhibition show , uh, same, same thing. So I'm loving, loving the large scale kind of luxury commercial , um, residential art advising. It's really, really fun. And it's been a gift and , and something that just, I mean, it came out of tossing out our drinks , you know , at a party .
Speaker 3:I love that story . That's so wonderful working with artists. So through the gallery, you get to work with both emerging and established artists. Would you say there are any differences in the collaboration?
Speaker 4:Um, yes. I think , um, my gut reaction is absolutely that I find , um, it's tricky. You know, I , I found it's a little hard to define, you know, what is an emerging artist? Because, you know, some say, well, if you're selling your work under $20,000, you're an emerging artist, and yet they've been working for 30 years. Or, you know, if they own , is it a , is it, you know, a function of time? Is this their first gallery experience? So I do feel like I struggle sometimes to identify exactly what is that emerging artist, but just let's assume that that artist in your mind, are you referring to people who are probably maybe five to 10 years into the world of art? So in that case, what I find is that a level of flexibility and a level , a level of , um, interest in the gallery, really helping to manage them. So there's that piece. While I find with the far more established artists, it's a blessing and a curse. What I love is that with the more established artists, you know, they have a market, they have a , a track record, they have clients, they have may have even a global audience, so they don't require as much perhaps , uh, on that more micromanagement level. Um, but I will only ever work with artists who are kind of , um, humble and kind. I just don't have the patience for , um, arrogance or difficulty, you know, so my, what used to be a three strike rule has basically gone down to a one strike rule. It's just not , um, it's not worth it. It needs to be a happy, fun partnership and, and journey. Um, and if it stops being fun, you know , um, I, I could say, and I don't know if, am I allowed to swear on this podcast? Yes. Okay. So, so my, my , um, criterium right now, maybe it's like as in life with friends and relationships, no and must be fun. It's very basic, you know, assuming your art is exquisite. So , so we kind of, that's, that's sort of my , uh, criterium. But I do find that, especially with artists who really not had any representation, they're very, very grateful and open to suggestions that, that I may have or we , my team may have. Um, but I also lean on my artists. I mean, it's up to them, it's their market, it's their pricing structure. I I give them what they, if they ask me of me, but otherwise I lean on them for a lot as well to kind of , you know, they know their market better than anybody. So, but the emerging artists who, especially those who've not had as much experience , um, it's, it's really fun when they can look to me to say, Hey, can you help me?
Speaker 3:My next question is about social justice, because I know you're passionate about that it translates into your work. How would you say can art galleries get involved in philanthropy?
Speaker 4:Oh, boy. You have so many good questions, Mona. Um, so I , okay. Can I use a current show as an example? Okay. Well, before I get into what the show features, basically, I think selecting the , if , if a gallery structured around exhibitions, you know, it , it's all a matter of what exhibitions are. Who are you representing, what stories are you telling? There's so much room to pursue causes that are true to oneself, that one values and supports through the art and the artists that they represent. So I, in that regard, I make it an , uh, an effort to, we represent as many female artists as we possibly can. We represent as many , um, artists of color as we possibly can. Uh, so those are two kind of strategies. A third is building a show around a cause that is, or, or, or a , um, an issue that is important. So in this case , um, this show in September, it's really a show that's looking at the crisis of mass incarceration. And I know that these exhibitions have, they're happening more and more, which I think is so exciting. Um, there was an incredible book and, and work done at the MoMA in the last couple years. I mean, there's been a lot of attention focused on it, but what's really lovely is it's not really been done in Philadelphia. So , um, these are six Philadelphia artists , uh, two of whom the wonderful extraordinary, Keith and Jennifer, who will , uh, never get out of prison. They have life sentences and other extraordinary artists. Um, and then there's Suave and my dear buddy Eddie, who both of whom served respectively 37 and 27 years, and then there's Mark who served 10 years. And each of these individuals really found art inside during their sentencing inside prison. And, and art was not only their number one means of , um, kind of rehabilitation and meaning, but it was also like a deep source of that. The process of creating was a deep source of, of fulfillment. And they identified e each of them identified, they didn't know they could draw and paint and work in this manner. So, you know, here's a wonderful opportunity to help people. We partnered with the Innocence Project, which actually got Eddie Ramirez out of prison. Eddie was in 27 years wrongfully incarcerated. And , um, we partnered with the Innocence Project. We will be raising money and donating a portion of our proceeds on my side. My artists will get, you know, their full fee. Um, but on my side, I'll be donating , uh, a nice portion to the Innocence Projects to help continue their good works. So, you know, there's, these are the, you know, one might say small ways of , um, giving back, but I'm a community gallery. I'm a Philadelphia gallery, so I think it's super important that I connect locally and I give back as much as I can just out of responsibility. Um, and I feel like we get a lot of , uh, local support because of that. And another way in which we give back, you know, it's really just figuring out the little things you can do to give back. Um, I can't write huge checks. I'm a small gallery, you know, and we're, we're working hard every day, but there's other things I can do. Like I gift my space to nonprofits that I believe in support . So my buddy Kamal, he's got this, he's the executive director of this amazing organization that transitions foster kids once they're 18, who've never, ever really lived outside the foster care system. They're able to help them transition. Well, he needed a space for his big gala, annual fundraising gala. So boom, take my space. All good. We're able to donate a piece of art they can auction that make more money. So those little things, you know, is , um, are meaningful. It's very micro, it's very local, but it's very, very meaningful.
Speaker 3:And I think, you know, oftentimes even artists, they are sort of researching different possibilities for, you know, fundraising or giving back to the community, and they feel like they're only giving such a small amount or, you know, a small thing. But it means so much for the people who are actually benefiting from it. And I think every little thing really matters because overall, you know, if we all get together and help a certain cause that's what matters. And I know that you've already worked , uh, with I think Suave right in the past on his show a few years ago. And I was wondering, because the theme that you just explained or described for your show that is coming up is incarceration, and before it was gun violence and it all sort of ties into , um, the issues with the, with the prison system. What was it for you that got you interested in this topic?
Speaker 4:I've got one word for you . Suave. Suave Gonzalez. Um, I owe so much to Suave. He absolutely changed my life on the deepest levels, and it was just a complete gift. And , um, you know, circumstance that he randomly walked into the first gallery that I had, and I think it was 20 Suave , walked in, and maybe it was about 20, it was 2019, and he had only been outta prison for a few months. And that the relationship and the friendship , uh, he showed me his artwork that day. Um, actually he'd come in a few times and then he finally whipped out his phone and just didn't tell , I knew nothing about his past, but he showed me the work and I, my mouth literally dropped open and I said, can you tell me some , tell me about yourself? And we ended up talking for a few hours that day, and I learned this just harrowing, unbelievable story told from a man who was just so, you just suave is so loving and gracious. And , um, he's just an amazing person. And then he told me this story. He had been incarcerated for 31 years and he was given a life sentence as a child, as a 17-year-old. And , um, you know, it's now been four years that we've worked together. I, I asked him, I said, oh my gosh, can we represent you? I'm opening up a new gallery across the street, and that's really where our friendship began. He, his work was the very, he did an incredible , um, Ruth Bader Ginsburg piece , uh, in which he actually laid a piece of, it was a multimedia piece in which he, he put a real, an actual piece of someone's actual glasses on her face. And it was a fairly small piece, but it was the first one to sell in my, really my first independent gallery. And that was really fun. But it was because of UA and, and getting to know him and learning about his life's journey. Uh, he, he published or produced co-produced a podcast called Suave, which won him a Pulitzer Prize. Um, and that, that I can kind of say to all, don't miss it, it's on Apple. Uh, it's incredible. And it's a nine, I think it's nine part series that really kind of chronicles his 31 years with actual audio recordings of his life. They were recorded over 31 years by a producer who called him Maria Aosa, who called him every week. And, you know, it's just getting to know him changed everything for me from that swa . And I did some , we did do some amazing gun violence work , um, with Gabby Gifford's Foundation and also , uh, to help raise some money for a local family who , uh, she had lost three of her five children. And , um, there's just, you know, there's gun violence throughout America and it's, it's, we all know it's totally tragic and horrible and , um, but it was suave, you know, and it , it only, there, there you go. It just took one friendship to really kind of change a direction for me. And as a result of that, I have all these other incredible people because of Suave. I've got, you know, these five artists in my life that I'm doing the show with. Um, and we're also starting, suave and I are together launching an artist in residency for incarcerated or formerly incarcerated artists. So there'll be a dedicated wall , um, in the gallery, and it'll rotate out every four months. Um, and that's something we're doing together. So, you know, just as you said it , it , it doesn't, it doesn't always take much it, this case, it took one person for me to kind of really give me a , a a different, a whole different perspective on our justice system and on some good work that we might be able to do together.
Speaker 3:I know you have a submission form on the website for artists who'd like to collaborate with Morton Contemporary. Can you tell me more about your selection process? What are you looking for in an artist? What are some red lines maybe when artists reach out to you?
Speaker 4:Um, well, I'll tell you that , um, well, it's, I think I could maybe ask artists generally. I think it's tricky. I understand people's enthusiasm and excitement and like they wanna run into the gallery and show you their work. But the reality is, is there's, you know, hundreds of people who wanna do that, thousands probably. And when it's done consistently, sometimes on a daily basis, it's so hard. 'cause we have so much we have to do. So I really encourage artists, ideally, you know, if it says apply online, please do so, it's so helpful. And then maybe, maybe, you know, if there's no word back, you know, maybe then there's a another conversation to be had. But what are we looking for? Good question. I, I have found , um, that my, I'm especially interested in innovative uses of, of old mediums and creating something unusual as a result of a maybe typically unused kind of medium in , in therefore using some mixed media. So for example, I work with an the amazing Bob Lanstrumm, who's out of Atlanta. Bob is the only artist as far as we know in the world who works exclusively with crushed volcanic rock. So he's an earth sign and he works with the earth and of the earth. And he's also like, as a , he's an engineer who's also deeply understanding of science and physics and a whole different universe that I, I struggle to understand. But he incorporates all of it into his work. And it's fascinating. I've got also, I work with , um, Nick Ese , who's the world's only x-ray fine art photographer. So here you've got a completely unique use of X-rays , um, as his medium. I have another artist, Ashvin Harrison, the remarkable ashvin who works with coconut charcoal dust. So he works with coconut charcoal dust, and he uses a paintbrush to apply to the canvas as, as charcoal. So , um, I love , I think I'm drawn to artists who do use innovative mediums. And then, you know, I'm also just drawn to, it sounds might sound kind of silly, but just beauty, something that, you know, it's like a feeling, I can't even explain it where I see something and I don't know why, but I just know that this is so beautiful and it's so good and it's so interesting. Um, so there's, I try and pay attention to the physiological reaction that I have. I know that's not very scientific as far as criterium goes, but, but I, it seems to work for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much for, for telling me all that. And you know, like we interview a lot of gallery owners and curators and js on the podcast and they're all, or you are all giving so many wonderful , um, tips and tricks for the artists and I just hope that people really listen to, to what you're saying because a lot of the things , um, keep being repeated. And I think, you know, we are seeing this pattern like for example, with like, don't just walk into the gallery with your work because we are kind of busy. Like we need to have the time to review your work and not just, you know, randomly start a conversation about, about your work when you walk in. So I think , you know, there's so many great things that you all share. And since we're slowly coming to the end of the interview, I have a couple of more questions. So we talked about it, but I know that you are also a mom of three and with such a rich background in filmmaking industry and visual arts, they've been exposed to the art world since their childhood. Are they following your passions too?
Speaker 4:<laugh>, that's good . Well , um, you know, it's very interesting. Okay, so their daddy is a professor of political philosophy and , uh, their mom, you know, I've shared my little path with you. Um, the kids are my 14-year-old daughter , uh, has really doesn't have any , uh, idea. Um, she does love animals and she throws around becoming a veterinarian, you know, which is interesting. Then I have a , an 18-year-old and a 21-year-old and , um, I just don't know, you know, my , um, my 18-year-old absolutely not. He's gonna pursue kind of a stem reality world. And then my 21-year-old, he is a creative writing major and psych major. Um, he does have a vision of spending the first couple years out of school writing his great American novel . And it's funny because I hear it and as incredible as it is, a part of me goes , uh, maybe you should get a real job and do that on the side. You know, I think I I they've seen the struggles I've had , um, despite the fact that ultimately like much later in life I'm able to monetize it. It's taken so long and it's been such a long trek. I, a part of me wants a little bit more security for my kids in a way, you know, but I, I, of course I want them to pursue whatever they find fulfilling, but in an ideal world, I hope it doesn't take them as much time as it took me to kind of figure it all out. But I think that's where parenting comes to play, you know, and I think that my folks always just said, just be happy, be happy. But that didn't offer a tremendous amount of guidance. Um, and so with our kids, you know, it's that delicate balance. I don't wanna step on any creative toes or passions or pursuits, but yet I do think, you know, a life in , uh, in to , to pursue a life of the mind and to pursue a world of art in whatever capacity, it is a very tough journey. And so I think people have to be really, really clear that, that they can't live without it. And I think then it's really the right choice. I don't yet see any of that in my children, but I do see a ton of creativity and who knows? We'll see, we'll see where it all plays out.
Speaker 3:I'm actually thinking about this every single day with my son 'cause he's six years old and and he has a lot of different interests and he's definitely interested in, in painting and creating things, as you know, most of the children are , um, and music and, and both me and my husband, we are former dancers, and I have an absolute pitch and I can see that, you know, he sort of got it from me and now like we are trying to get him excited about musical instruments. So we are like purchasing all different musical instruments. And now he's taking, or he's starting to take classes with, with a friend of mine who is in, in various bands and he's gonna be teaching him drums and piano and, and you know, sort of like giving him the opportunity to, to try everything by himself. Like not feeling forced into, you know, doing that. And I , and I'm really curious where, where that will take him. But, but I definitely love that, you know, you can, you can see different interests and passions with your children and, and then sort of like being curious about what you know, is going to turn into,
Speaker 4:I, I think what you're doing is right on the money exposing him. He's , if he's already shown an interest, exposing him to all of that, you know, the , that fun musical, you know, world of, of art , um, especially that you guys were dancers. I mean, it's in his blood. You know, my, my background is more of one of, of business and entrepreneurs, so that's really kind of what's in my DNA . Um, and so I love that you are you yourself as a dancer and, and are , you know, helping to expose your son to all this musical , uh, fun. It's great. Yeah, the more exposure, the better. You know, we, we did similarly, like all the kids, they had to start an instrument at a very young age, play all the way through high school, couldn't we , don't let them give it up. You know, they have a language, you know, just certain things to just keep their world open.
Speaker 3:So , um, my last question is about artists again. And as I said, you've given a lot of advice already. Uh , but let's talk about like, we sort of approached it from the point of a gallery owner. So now if you think about artists, what would you say to someone who's looking for a gallery representation in terms of how ready they need to be and what they need to prepare when they're approaching a gallery?
Speaker 4:Oh, great, great question. Yeah, I mean, I think some of the basics, which are probably pretty obvious to, to most folks is I think , um, having , uh, for better or worse, I'm not a huge fan of social media, but an Instagram account is probably the number one kind of resume. I just think an Instagram account is really, really helpful. A website, secondly, really, really helpful just to kind of see, and , and a CV posted on that site is helpful just to see work that they've done, to see that they are prolific, to see that , um, you know, maybe even depending on how long someone's been at it, you know, some people will post, you know, different, you can look and look at 20 15, 20 18, 20 20 and see the evolution of their work. I just think that those visual , um, supports are really, really helpful. Um, I also think when approaching a gallery , um, being clear on what it is, you're, you are most passionate about what kind of art you like to make, especially if you can see on the Instagram. 'cause a lot of artists can work in many different styles and mediums. I think it's helpful when approaching a gallery. Um, first off, dear God, research the gallery. Know, know who they're selling and, and who they represent to make sure you're a fit. Because if a classical kind of landscape artist, you know, really traditional comes to me and says, oh, can you represent me? And their work is amazing. But the reality is when you look around my space, I'm not gonna have the audience that's gonna be best suited for you. So I think for an artist to pay attention to who is buying the art in that gallery, which is really then about what is the nature of that gallery? Sort of what is that gallery's identity? See if your work is a fit. Number one, actually, let's put that one at the top then if, if it is a fit. Uh , however tangentially you want to have some platforms to exhibit your work. IE Instagram a website, you know, super helpful. And at the very least, I've got some, some individuals who will pop in. Like I have a , it seems weirdly like a lot of doctors who are retired who had this incredible gift as a young person, they gave it up, but now they're pursuing it and they're amazing. But , um, they don't have Instagram and nor at that stage in their life, do they wanna start a website or, you know, and then let's just say if you're so anti all of that technology and you just don't wanna get your head around it, put together a beautiful series of , um, JPEGs, put together an electronic catalog, you know, send it in an orderly manner. Don't send like 50 individual JPEGs with, Hey, can you look at my art? You know, I get that a lot. And it's, it's just not a great first step forward.
Speaker 3:<laugh> , Debbie , thank you so much for your time today. I am really excited that we managed to chat and this was just so amazing and I hope that we'll keep in touch in the future. And I'm really excited about everything that you have coming up, including the exhibit that you mentioned during the podcast. Good luck to you, and again, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, Mona. I'm thrilled to have participated today. Um, thank you for being so prepared. Your questions were wonderful and I felt very at ease and I'm grateful for that. This is my official first podcast, so I was also really excited about it, and so were my kids. So, so thanks for being so lovely.
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