Life Around "The Fire"
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Life Around "The Fire"
Dr Bill Hurst: Why Maturity Matters When People Lie About You
Loving Yeshua/Jesus, Loving people... Come as you are and you will be loved!
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All right, folks, welcome back. We're in the studio today with Dr. Bill Hurst. And as I said before, it is really it's just always a privilege and a delight to have Dr. Bill come in because God uses him. Plain simple. He is a conduit and God uses him. And we we're gonna do kind of a Q ⁇ A time right now where I'm gonna ask Dr. Bill a couple questions and then he's gonna take as much time as he wants to or needs to in answering them. But let me kind of set the table a little bit, alright, Doctor? Mm-hmm. Okay, question number one, or statement number one. My observation is spiritually speaking, and kingdom of God speaking, we're in a major shift or a transitional time in which the kingdom of God's always at hand, but there's a movement going on. It has been going on for some years now in our time. But God is sovereign and going to be manifesting his glory and he's preparing us for something. It has been.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And what what is your observation as as from the from your vantage point? Apostolically speaking or prophetically, at whatever level you you come at it, what what's your what's your advantage? What's your viewpoint?
SPEAKER_02:Well, first of all, we have tried to conglomerate, if I can use that as a word, we could we have tried to conglomerate and put all the views into one view. And here's here's what I talked about the other day. There are many theories floating around the body of Christ about the end time and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Number one, pre-tribulation rapture. Number two, mid-tribulation rapture. Number three, post-tribulation rapture or premillennialism. Then there's post-millennial, millennialism, and there's all millennialism. All millennial really have to stretch things, but they say we're in the millennium now. My statement on that is if if the devil is bound, because he's supposed to be bound for the millennial reign, please don't lose him.
SPEAKER_00:Because if this is bound.
SPEAKER_02:Now each of them taken by themselves, and by excluding a few other balancing scriptures can be proven to be true. So here's the question. If God allowed that to happen, and they can be seemingly proven with excluding a few scriptures, would not the truth be a balance of all of those scriptures? And so I begin to seek God for balance. And I think that's what we need to do today. We are living in a world where extremes are being magnified. That's so true. Whether it's right or left, whether it's woke or sleep, it's whichever one of those it is, each of them is being magnified. When the truth is a balance, and a balance is right down the middle. And God is wanting to raise up a people of balance in this hour. Now, about the shift. I really believe that the shift started maybe a year and a half to two years ago. In fact, I think that's when the Lord spoke to me that we were entering into another time. Now, there are those out there that say we're in the first one of the horses of the apocalypse and so on. I don't I don't I don't go there. But I think what we're in is the setting of the stage so he can bring in the kingdom. Remember this there's going to be a people manifesting the kingdom before the tribulation starts. Okay? And so my focus is to press into the kingdom so that the kingdom that was in is within begins to manifest without, and people see the kingdom of God in reality in a people that God can do everything he said he'd do in me. And that's the kingdom. The kingdom of God is within you. Now, notice he didn't say the kingdom of heaven is within you. We won't go there today. But there's a difference between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven. Okay? But we are in a shift where God is actively setting the stage for the kingdom. A couple of years ago, well, quite a number of years ago, I guess it was, God spoke to me and he said, Bill, he said, I want you to write from the what we've always called the Lord's Prayer, and I want you to set the stage for thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. And so that has developed into a series of courses being written. The first one being, Thy kingdom come, a New Testament survey, but only focusing on the kingdom. And I'll tell you I found so many things that we've not talked about as the kingdom. Because remember, Jesus said to the disciples, the kingdom of God is at hand. Then he said, The kingdom of God is within you, and then he left them to begin to set the stage for the kingdom. So somewhere in there is the balance of truth, and God is getting ready to bring it into manifestation. It has taken him almost 2,000 years to begin to bring forth a mature people, to restore the church so that they could hear maturity. Kingdom reality is maturity. Next question.
SPEAKER_00:Next question, please. Hallelujah. Yeah. Okay. Next question or next scenario is this. I've had people. Can you believe it? I've actually had people lie about me. About me. Yeah. I've had people lie about me. They've said lies about me. And they told these lies to other people. And uh have you ever had that happen to you?
SPEAKER_02:Uh, only about three times in the last two years.
SPEAKER_00:Only about three. Oh, that's that's that's fair. How do you navigate through people lying about you?
SPEAKER_02:Well, first of all, you've got to be established in the truth of who you are. That only comes through relationships. Only God knows who I am. Only by relating to him does he share with me who I am. Not where I am in my maturity, but who I'm called to be. And after that, he does show me where I am in maturity. Let me say this. Some years ago, back in 1981-82, God began to download, we had just come back from Christian community, God began to download to me a whole series of charts to maturity. And when I got to the one growing up into him and all things is what I've called it, where it talks about babes, children, young men, and fathers. When he took me there and gave me the outline to study, I found out I was not as mature as I thought I was.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there we go.
SPEAKER_02:And you cannot grow on to maturity till you realize the state of maturity you're at. So when I thought I was a young man, I actually found out I was a child. But with that, with with my vision corrected and my definitions corrected, I've been able to grow to a level of maturity. I'm not fully matured yet because I'm not manifesting what full maturity is. But I'm more, I'm closer to maturity and more mature in my k in the character and nature of Jesus Christ in my life than I have ever been. That is maturity. Not gifts, not ministry, not signs and wonders. But the character and nature of Jesus Christ shining out through me is the true level of my maturity. So when people lie about me, when they say things about me, I rest in who he says I am. I take that back to him. Remember that he said, No weapon formed against you shall prosper, and every tongue that shall rise against you in judgment, thou shalt condemn. Now it doesn't mean you damn them, it doesn't mean you curse them, it means you declare them wrong before the throne of God. What you let stand remains. Oh, that's good. Well Okay. But if I declare them wrong before the heavenlies, where the battle is, then they have no more power over me. So I declare some of those things wrong that have been said about me, and they do not affect me.
SPEAKER_00:Next. Mm-hmm. Oh great. You gave me a give me a cool look there, and I had a good look, and I that was that was uh Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, since we're talking about that type of thing, or I brought it up. I'm gonna go here then. I I've understood that you've had some unique experiences in your life.
SPEAKER_02:I have.
SPEAKER_00:Very, very unique. And unique in the sense that they're spiritually powerful, moving. And one of them happens uh deals with King David.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And you I wanna I wanna uh because I like you and I love you, and I wanna I wanna clarify something. Word on street had that uh you you kind of talk to the dead.
SPEAKER_02:Well, first of all. Jesus said God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Okay? And he was referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But that being that as it may, let's go, first of all, to a scripture in Revelation. And I I want to go there because John had an experience in which he thought he was talking to Jesus. And it turned out it wasn't.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so, first of all, let me say this any visitation from any angel or from anyone must be challenged with whom do you, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, the uncreated one, we command you to tell us whom you serve. Yep. Okay? Yep. And that doesn't matter how many times you've had visitation or how many times you have had encounters. We need to challenge the encounter. Because remember, the the sin goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he did may devour, but he also goes about as an angel of light.
SPEAKER_00:You're saying that God does not get offended if you challenge whether or not it's from him or not.
SPEAKER_02:He does. He gets offended if you don't. Okay. Because he's the one that said, try the spirits to see whether they be of God or not. And so what I want to do for a moment is bring my Bible up here on my computer, go to the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_01:Love it.
SPEAKER_02:And go to chapter, I think it's chapter 19. We will find out here. It's not doing what I want it to do, so let me get it here.
SPEAKER_00:As you're looking at that, I want to uh encourage those who are listening if you've had some unique experiences, what Dr. Bill just mentioned about challenging whether or not those things are from God, it's a real word of wisdom, and also it's a point of clarification concerning this visitation that you had, Doctor, concerning David, and that you actually did that very thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:In Revelation 19, 9, and he saith unto me, this is the one that was talking with him, right? Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb, and he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. Here's John's reaction. Remembering that John had met Jesus in his glorified form in chapter 1 through 3, had had spoken to him, had heard from him directly, directly from his mouth, had seen him in chapter 4 on the throne, and so on. Here's what John said. And I fell at his feet to worship him, and he said unto me, See thou do it not. I am thy servant, thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophet uh thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. But wait a minute. John knew you were only supposed to worship Jesus. But why do you fall at the feet of this one? Who was not an angel, but one of the brethren. So, you know, scripture says, out of the mouth of two or three witnesses, let a word be established, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:So then we should look at a second witness, you think?
SPEAKER_00:Sure, why not?
SPEAKER_02:Chapter 2 and verse 8. John didn't learn the first time. No. Okay. And John and I John saw these things and heard them. When I heard them and seen, I fell down at to worship before the feet of the angel. This looked to him like an angel, which showed me these things. And he said unto me, See thou do it not, for I'm thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them that keep the sayings of this book, worship God. So now we have to discern whether it's an angel of light, whether it's Jesus, or whether it's from the cloud of witnesses. So I woke up one morning, or woke up in the middle of the night, and I see this mist in my room. And I said, My first thing was, God, what is this? Remembering I've only probably had one visitation, and that was as Jesus as the chief shepherd in my first pastorate back in 1971. Okay? So that was my last remembered visitation. God may bring some that I've had that I don't remember. I don't know. But that was my last one. I challenged that one. And obviously it was the Lord. So it came to this, and I said, Lord, what is it? You know, in Jesus' name, what is it? Who are you? And I heard in my spirit this is the essence of David. And then I heard the Holy Spirit say, Get up and walk through that essence, and I will impart to you something of his uh essence and his spirit. When I did that, I went back and laid down, woke up in the morning, but had the the experience was as if I'd never slept, never gone back to sleep. So I told my wife, and we began to pray into it and say, Lord, what are you trying to teach us? Here's what I heard. You can think I'm radical, you can think I'm way out there, but David gave me permission, all right? Permission, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And so I said, Lord, I don't know anything about David. Now, what I didn't realize and didn't put together till after even this visitation was that the theme of my life and my ministry has been that of David. My doctoral thesis was on David. And so I knew probably more about his life than any other Old Testament figure. But I didn't snap to that understanding of that till later. And so the first thing the Lord did is he said, Bill, remember, in Revelation 5 and 10, the four beasts, the 24 elders, before the throne, they sing in in verse 10, We praise thee, O God, for thou hast made us kings and priests unto our God. And we shall reign on the earth. He says, We these were redeemed from among men. So those 24 elders, the four beasts, are of typology of redeemed creatures. So I said, Well, Lord, but what is this? He said, I want to take you and begin to teach you the principles of David's coming to the throne experientially. I don't know that trip, folks. I don't know that journey. But remember, the Holy Spirit has come to lead me and to guide me into the experiencing of all truth. Now that truth is not the whole book, the whole of scripture. That truth is what he speaks to me in relationship. Anything he speaks to me in relationship, I can pray and ask the Holy Spirit to lead me into it. I do not presume to know what it means. I do not presume to know how to do it, but I can trust the Holy Spirit to bring me there. There's more around that, but I feel to just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amen. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I've been wanting to do this for a while, and I just you know, it's uh it's so true. Let it let it let another man say your compliments, right? Right. So that's what I'm doing. Uh so that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. So last question or scenario is this. I've been hearing a lot of talk about the tabernacle of David.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And the restoration of the tabernacle of David and worship and all that goes along with that.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:What say you about that?
SPEAKER_02:Well, first of all, remember that the tabernacle of Moses and the Tabernacle of David were transition tabernacles. Many are talking about the restoration of the tabernacle of David as it as if it is the final vessel of expression. But God gave David the pattern for Solomon's temple, what we call Solomon's Temple. David, God was the architect, David was the drawing mechanism, and Solomon was the big. So the journey of God is from the tabernacle of Moses through the tabernacle of David to the Temple of Solomon. Because in the book of Revelation, chapter 21, or 20, 21, and 22, the tabernacle, or the it's not referred to as a tabernacle, it's referred to as the temple. The temple then becomes the interpreter of the types and shadows of the Temple of Solomon. Remember, God blessed, by the way, you never hear of the manifest presence being in David's tabernacle. That is significant. You hear of it being in the tabernacle of Moses, you hear of it being in the Temple of Solomon. But I don't think you see anywhere, unless God corrects me in the days to come, anywhere clearly of it being in the tabernacle of David, although David experienced the presence of God there. But we're not told that it totally overshadowed it. It may just have been David experiencing the presence. Okay? So I do not claim for Scripture what it doesn't claim for itself. It's dangerous to get out in that territory. Okay? But the tabernacle of David is more than just worship. The tabernacle of David, God said to David, I'm going to build you a house. The house of David is more than a tent. The house of David was a covenant with David. It was a covenant of restoring his level of relationship with God to a people. And when God said, I'm going to give you the sure mercies of David, that is more than just worship. And so what the when God raises up the tabernacle of David, and I believe it's part of the shift. The emphasis will be worship. Oh, let me give you one more scripture.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, please.
SPEAKER_02:Let me mess you up a bit.
SPEAKER_00:Please do.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Turn to Hebrews.
SPEAKER_00:Hebrews.
SPEAKER_02:I call it the coffee book, because Hebrews.
SPEAKER_00:Hebrews coffee. You gotta be Canadian for that one, man.
SPEAKER_02:So what we see in Hebrews is a very, very interesting scripture. In fact, I where was I? I can't even remember when it when it was. I ministered on it the other day.
SPEAKER_01:But in let me go get the Bible program up here. Back to Hebrews.
SPEAKER_00:Hebrews two. Hebrews two.
SPEAKER_02:Very interesting scripture because it's the context is Jesus. Okay. The context is Jesus speaking. So let's go down. Come on now. Come on. Give me a hard time.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:I can see hers too. He talks about being in the midst of the church, will I sing praise unto thee? Right. I thought maybe I'd mark it. And probably just because I'm trying to find it quickly, I can't find it. But here's here's what he says. I think it's found in chapter two. But he says that in the midst, this is Jesus speaking, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. It's Jesus speaking. The tabernacle of David is the return of Jesus singing in worship to his father. Let me say that again. The worship element of the tabernacle of David is Jesus singing praise to his father in the midst of the congregation. Out of that comes a repentant heart. Out of that comes a coming to a perfect heart. Because remember, God's testimony of David after he died was that he had a perfect heart. That was under the old covenant. That was under the law. That came through relationship, not obedience to the law, because David broke the law multiple times, and God mitigated the consequences so that he didn't die.
SPEAKER_00:Now that's a whole nother but the fact of the matter being, Jesus, like they did at the Mount of Olives prior to his going into prayer, was they worship, they sang a hymn to the Father. Yep. And Jesus singing in our midst is an experience that I long for to see that manifest.
SPEAKER_02:I've seen it once or twice in my whole lifetime, sixty years of ministry. But if he did it once, he'll do it again. Till there comes a point in time where every worship service Jesus sings to the Father through his people. But also I believe it's possible, because I've we had it in Bible school once or twice, where he sings and we hear it. You hear it. Everyone else in the congregation is quiet and he sings.
SPEAKER_00:You know, we could do this, and maybe one day we will do it for a couple hours, but time has come, my brother. Time has come for us to close off this particular episode. But before we do, would you please pray?
SPEAKER_02:Father, we do not exalt experiences. We exalt Jesus.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And we freely admit we do not fully know how to do that yet. But your Holy Spirit is leading us and guiding us into maturity in worship. Father, we long for the day when we understand what it means to fully cast our crowns at your feet, to know our authority, to know our maturity, and then to humbly lay it down at your feet, giving all glory and honor to you. We're asking that you lead us into that level of truth where people see our good works and glorify our Father which is in heaven without any prompting. Thank you. Only you can do that. We ask that you would in your precious name. Amen.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, my brother, so much. And uh, you are welcome here anytime. You are a welcome guest and a contributor to what's going on around the nations. And folks, we uh we we love you. And if you have any thoughts, questions, concerns, please feel free to drop us a line at life around the fire at gmail.com. Excuse me. That's our email address or type in Life Around the Fire and look us up on the web. We would love to hear from you. In the meantime, God bless you. Adios, amigos.