Back to Basics Podcast

Barry's Homebirth Story: A Look Inside The Role of Dads In Birth:

• Nicole • Season 4 • Episode 4

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This week we get to hear what it takes to be a good birth partner from Barry. 

Last week Nicole shared their birth from her perspective, now we have her husband Barry sharing what the journey was like for him. 

He shares honestly about how men can show up more in birth and pregnancy and not just be bystanders. What it was like taking the lead from his wife in the birth choices they made and aligning himself to support her however she needed him to. 

It's not often that men get to be an integral part of the birth process but when they are given the space and support to they show up with a steady intuitive presence that just cannot be replaced. 



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SPEAKER_01

Hello and welcome to the Back to Basics Podcast. If you're joining us for the first time, this is a podcast for anyone walking the journey of birth, parenting, and supporting those who are. In each episode, we come back to what matters most: honest stories by African women, trusted guidance, and the kind of community that helps you trust yourself. I'm Nicole, and I'm so glad you're here. So take a breath because you're in the right place. Hi Barry. So maybe you can just tell us about you, yeah, what you do, how you became a dad.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Hi, um, my name is Barry. I am an architect by profession. How I became a dad. Hey, you'd have to break that down a bit.

SPEAKER_01

Of the journey of being a dad.

SPEAKER_00

On the day?

SPEAKER_01

Or when you found out the process. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

When I found out, when I found out that was that was rough. Um I wasn't I wasn't ready. Or let me not say I wasn't ready. The last thing on my mind at the time was being a dad, definitely. It was never something which um uh we expected, something which we planned on, because this was barely, found out barely. More or less shortly after we got married, we were expectant already. So I think that's something which I wasn't expecting. Uh I wasn't very grateful about it, to be honest. I wasn't uh looking forward to it because I think first of all, the first part was locking in and just figuring out the fact that wait, I'm a I'm going to be a dad. That wasn't um that was quite a journey. I think maybe a month or two, just trying to figure out what exactly does that mean. Um what does that mean in terms of even planning how our lives are going to be? Because we had all this imagination. Oh, we're gonna wait to be two years, if at all we're going to have children, if we decide to have kids, we're going to wait two years, three years, maybe. And then we start thinking about it. And then here we are now, two months post-wedding. That's already this was already man. So definitely that's how um we found out um that was also I think two weeks after Nicole died going away. So that was hey, it was a very emotional period. It wasn't uh I've never been through a greater roller coaster of emotions in terms of uh my life because uh I think I was processing a lot. Just getting married, losing my father-in-law, then finding out you're pregnant. That was that was I think that's that added to the confusion as well. That uh made it difficult to understand and navigate. But two months, three months, you kind of lock in. We're here now. What do you have to do? Get ready, plan yourself and see what happens next. The journey during the pregnancy, Nicole had a very uh, I think a vanilla pregnancy. There was nothing uh spectacular, I would say. From my perspective, I don't think there was anything significantly. There's nothing to there was nothing new to her. It was just that she kept going throughout pregnancy, nothing changed about her, she looked fantastic. And then now I think all along, I think all along, since even before we got married, Nicola had always been telling me about how uh she feels that uh women's health, she's very passionate about women's health, and especially women's reproductive health. So for her, she was like if ever she had a child, one of the first things she would consider doing is having an unmedicated. It started as unmedicated. That's how it started. It started as an unmedicated birth. So between the two of us, generally, I think we're both very adventurous, but the more I get to know I realize she's much more adventurous than I am. I think I proceed with caution. Nicole is willing to go through with things based on let me say 60% information is good enough for her. And for me, I'm someone who um 60% is like you know nothing.

SPEAKER_01

Really?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I need to lock in, we need to get to like 89 almost 90.

SPEAKER_01

60 is like more than half.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, ah no, that's that's not enough. That's not enough for me. For me, I now I know. I used to think I was like that, but now I know I know better that I'm not like that. So definitely, um yeah, it began as unmedicated birth, then it progressed as we were getting closer towards the wedding. Then by the time we found out we were pregnant, I remember she told me very early, like when she was like one month or two months, she said, um, if nothing happens to me during my pregnancy or nothing happens to the child during the pregnancy, I think um we should try a home birth.

SPEAKER_01

And what was your reaction?

SPEAKER_00

My reaction, I remember it was silence. It was silence at first because I I think the timing was off. She told me when I was still processing, first of all, we're going to have a child, going to grow a human being. That for me was absolutely insane. Then she tells you, now we're going to move on from having a child to we're going to have this child through a home birth. So I think at first that's that's now me starting to realize more and more the person I got married to is not the person I thought I got married to. But isn't it because for me I was I was like, okay, there's adventure when there's that. So I'm not so sure, but I'm willing to. I'm someone who's very willing to grow into the information, the learning, and all that kind of thing. So, and I think she's done a really good job over the years. We've been together for quite a while. So she's really been educating women's health and stuff like that. So I understood where she was coming from. I wasn't surprised, but like, oh my goodness, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_01

She said she trained you.

SPEAKER_00

It told exactly. I was I was I was I was I was essentially groomed into this. That's what happened. And it has been going on. Now, now when I look back, I realize it started more than six years ago. I know more information than I think um I would comfortably want to know about the things that um women's health pertains to. But that's not something which I think is a bad thing. I think it's a really good thing because now I I don't know. You I realize even going through with what we did, the confidence for me usually comes from knowledge. I'm not someone who is confident because I am born. I think when I have an undeniable stack of evidence that this can work, the confidence is now there. So definitely when when when when when I found out um more and more about what she was intending to do, that's when she told me now about you. And I think I don't remember how many weeks it was we're supposed to reach out to when I reached out to her. But when did you reach out to early? It was very early. No, but she told you that there's a time when now we'll reach out and I will sit down and lock in, like cover what we're going to cover. Somewhere in the middle of the pregnancy.

SPEAKER_01

Second trimester. Second trimester.

SPEAKER_00

At that point, that's when now I realized she was serious, by the way. All through. She used to tell me, but I was like, eh, maybe not. And I think honestly, all the way up until one week before Nikolai gave birth. I used to ask her, are we are we a hundred percent mentally or or are we are we okay to do this kind of a thing? Or and do normal people do such things? Do normal do because I think to date I only know two people who've done a home birth. That's you, our doula, and my wife. I don't know anywhere else. I hear it, I see it online, and and many times you look at it and you're like, ah, this thing looks a little bit too it's too far out there. And I think that was the general trajectory for me, all the way until um our baby boy was born. I don't think um it ever sank in that this is something we're going to do. And I think the knowledge, the information obviously made it a little bit easier. Much, much easier, not not a little bit easier, much easier.

SPEAKER_01

And did you have to like navigate like protecting her from your family or taking off? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. But yeah, there's still some level of protection, but it was a to the hey hey, which it reminds me, there was one day. Um Nicole was, I think, eight months pregnant. Then as as she was progressing further, my dad didn't want to see her trained. So Nicole worked out all the way till the day she gave birth. On that, I think it on that day as well. Or the day before, whichever of the two. I think the day before the Tuesday. Not the Wednesday, yeah. The Tuesday went into labor. So what happens is when they see her, as she was now growing, now you visibly see that she's closer to popping. The questions of which hospital are you going to would come. So one day she went to the gym, and and both um both our moms uh go to the same gym with us, so they walk, they usually walk on the track. And I think both of them locked in on her day and told us, which hospital are you going to? Da-da-da-da-da. And she came home and I told her, You need to stop working with our moms. I get what you like, they accompany you, but you need to stay away from them temporarily because, as it were right now, you've locked in, you're going to give birth at home. Then they're looking forward to the day we tell them we're in labor, okay, come to the hospital. And I told her, you have to go out. So generally, I don't think there's too much protection in the sense that I think when both of us were on the same page, you just kind of just be uh scanty with the information. And I told her we need to now kind of be skasky dog or not to be seen so much around them because now they want to and and it comes from a point of love, I think. They genuinely care, they they really, you know, this is your first child. Do you even know what to do? Do you have any idea what you're doing? So they really, really want to rally behind you and support you. But the decision that um we made to have a home birth was not also very popular, yeah, and we didn't know um how they would take it. So I usually tell I usually tell Nicole I think what we're doing is protecting them, not even us.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think if if if the information that Nicole was going to try and um deliver our baby at home went out, the people would have died first, then they would die. Just thinking about it, they would die. And uh evidenced by their actions that have been.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think I get a lot of women who maybe they want a home birth or just an unconventional birth choice, but their husbands are usually kind of like the thing holding them back. Um, yeah, so maybe you can speak to what kind of made you put you in that headspace where you're like, okay, this is a bit wild, but I just have to trust my wife, or yeah, what was your thinking behind that? And then what would you say to another dad? Maybe it's feeling like my wife wants this, but this is crazy, you know. I'm worried about the safety of my child, you know, validly, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think ah no, I don't think I'm certain. Um, especially after having witnessed the process, and this is our first child. Um, never had one before, and I think that was also the other biggest funny thing that people would find with Nicole that on her first try, she'd tried it to her home. But I think that's something which people found crazy. But having gone through that process right from um when we started um the sessions with you, it became very clear. And I don't think it's only with birth. I think in life, something you don't commit to in your mind is likely going to become either harder or fail. You'll fail at it, or it'll become significantly harder just because you're not committed to it. And I think to another dad out there who may be the block between his wife going through that process or not, it would be to realize first and foremost the successful delivery of that child is dependent entirely with the level of comfort that the mother has as well. There's 50-50 risk regardless, whether you go to a hospital or not. The risk remains the same. I if if we were to go and pick out files today to find out what happens in a hospital with the labors and the complexities, there's more evidence there than even with home births. But that's not to say it is more, it is, it is dangerous now to be in a hospital, no. But I think birth is a very even thing, Nicole, it's a very mental, mental thing. And I think she locked in so well. And for me, what gave me the confidence in that is I am supporting her and her desire to do this the right way for her as well. The worst thing that I could possibly do, and I remember even during the bath, I remember the things which were happening which I was concerned about. Like the silliest of things, the carpet getting blood. That was one of them. That was one of the things. I remember that was one of the things. And in the middle of her having a contraction, I had to make the decision of will I care about the cream almost white carpet getting a blood stain, or will I support her through the labor? And I I I decided no, it doesn't help because at the end of the day, right now we're locking in on something more important, and and that's exactly what we did. So my my biggest, I think my biggest campaign for especially dads, is if your wife has bought into it fully, it's really, really important, unless they're doing something extremely wrong. Um, you need to find a way to support that because especially when it comes to birth, your mind needs to, your mind needs to be in it, especially for the mother of the child. The worst thing that you can be is part of the concerns that make her not be locked into it. Even if you're into a hospital, the nurses require the mom to work with them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

She can't work with you if she's not bought in. Now imagine taking someone to a hospital against their will, for example. I'm not saying a hospital is bad. But if they were planning on doing, I mean, during our labor, even with Nicole, when her energy went down, I told her, you know, this is what you actually wanted, this is the birth plan you planned for. Currently, your energy is low, you're puking, but your energy going lower means we're going to end up in the ambulance and go to the hospital. And as a result, she locked in. But it's because mentally you're checked in.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Imagine telling that to someone who never prescribed to do it at home first. Then like, let's go to the ambulance because that's what I wanted in the first place. You're telling me my energy is low me wanted to be in the hospital. Why are you telling me that? Inside, how does that help me?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I think my biggest campaign, especially, and not at the about home birds of hospital, but just about the concepts of birth. If mommy's energy, mommy's brain, mommy's mentality, mommy's psych. I think the best support that a dad can give to a husband can give to the wife, especially during labor, is to really help her log in. Keep get the mind in check in such a way that um she's she's fully she's fully in the birthing experience in terms of not worried and anxieties and the back door completely, no stressful uh experiences. And it and that I think varies from human to human. Uh depends also on the mother of the child. If the mother of the child is in a mind space where they're already relaxed, they're generally not anxious. Everything works out. The best I think for me that I can look back to is not to be a contributor to the stresses. And that's why that carpet or deal happened as it happened. I had to, and and I think even to just lend more power to the statement about the mother locking in. When I was busy worried about blood getting on the carpet, I'm the one who called myself to a meeting and decided that no, I think this is very out of pocket to start bringing in stories for you. Let's not eat five the carpet at this point. And instead of um telling her, I just decided let me let it go. But she noticed in the middle of contractions, she dead, she's the one who literally she actually I remember the the midwives were asking me, What are you doing down there? And I said, Ah, it's nothing, never mind. Then in the middle of them asking me, I think she figured out what because we live together, she knows what I was probably doing. She literally tapped me and lifted her leg for me to, uh, there's a blanket we had on the carpet for me to straighten out the blanket. And I was like, that shows that she hasn't lost, like her mind. If if if she was completely out of her mind, she wouldn't have realized that yet she did. So I think one of the things I've learned, and and and I think it really helped with this leading up to the to the whole thing. I don't remember time we ever sat down to talk with you about the home birth experience and we never talked about the mind. It was always about it was never about, oh, can the baby come out or am I strong enough to do it? It all comes down to in your mind, if if if if if you're not in the right space, your body will follow where your mind has gone. So if you don't lock into we're able to do this, then your mind will definitely convince you you can't do it, and then your body will catch up to that eventually. So I think the greatest support you can be is not to be part of the stresses. And then second of all, if you're an anxious personality, I don't think I am, but I think there's sometimes that I ask questions that can make someone be concerned. I remember multiple times I when when when um shortly just after after after uh our baby was born, I realized there was a lot of blood. More than and I think for for me as a dude, blood is not necessarily a normal thing. Yeah, we don't we don't respond to blood the same way as everybody, and depending on individuals, um there are people who are more turned off by blood than others. And for me, I was seeing blood gushing out in amounts, which I was like, this is concerning. But at that point in time, I was just like, now if I start asking this question right now to her, she can't see the what I'm seeing. I just need to trust the midwives and everything. And it all turned out perfectly well. When I go back in time and think about it, it's very normal for people to give birth and that amount of blood is there. But just because I'd never seen it before doesn't mean it's out of pocket. So timing is also so key. The best way to support your wife is always to, I think, rally behind and be her champion. If if she can't get on board and realize the two of you are on the same team and and you are supporting her to get there. And at that point, actually, it's so important for us to support them because I can't carry the child. But I can contribute to her as my child. So it's me to figure out how can I participate in this for her because I can deliver the child and not carry the child. So how can I, what's my what's my role, what can I achieve in whatever little I can. And I think that's the biggest uh that's the biggest uh hack for me, if you ask me. I I don't understand people who um prevail upon their wives to do something they don't want to do, for example, uh force them either to give birth at home or to go in a hospital or recommend something. It clearly shows they don't understand the complexity behind the relationship between their minds and their bodies that can it can affect. So for me, that's that's all I'd say about husbands and dads really participating in the process. And one more thing which I feel very strongly about, um, leading up to us um uh delivering and having the baby, all our friends said um there's a guarantee but he's going to faint. He must die, something must happen to him. If there's going to be a medical emergency, it's not going to be for mother or child, it's going to be for and I realized that's that that becomes true if you don't lock in as well. That's something I remember very well. Um during the process, I'm not accustomed to those kind of things and I'm more squarmish than my wife. So someone would imagine that is something I am going to absolutely hate. I realize more and more for me, maybe this is for other people, maybe other people it's different, but for me, if you Focus on the main goal being the main goal. I don't think there's any reason for you to be concerned about that. Will it be different? Will it be like nothing else you've ever experienced? A hundred percent. Does it have to end up the way like people walking out and saying, oh no, you know, I can't do this anymore? Let me you just finish and do that. I think if I did something like that, it would have significantly impacted the experience for my life. She'd have felt alone, she would have not felt. I think she was happy to have me. Maybe she can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she was happy to have me there. And and not passively there. You know that people are usually there, but they're there. He's because he's literally at the wall. The guy is gone completely, and he's two inches from his grave. And I don't think that's helpful. So it requires work on both the parts of the mouth. The same way Nicole locked in and figured out that no matter how much I feel like I don't want to eat, I need to eat. It's the same way, no matter how much I feel like I don't want to watch blood spilling and everywhere and things coming out. Uh it is necessary. Yeah. So you just look at the main goal, and the main goal is we're trying to get um our baby to live it safely, we have to live healthy, and mom is okay if it's okay. Once that's the main goal, all the other stuff is the side shows in between.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay. And I think for I think for us, most of our dads were not in like the labor room when our mums were giving birth. I don't know if yours was. So I feel like supporting births for men nowadays is quite new and there isn't much support. And I find a lot of dads end up feeling quite um traumatized by the whole birth process.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, I don't know. Is there something you feel like men should get in terms of because even looking at the birth video, I was just thinking Barry needed a doula, like an extra pair of hands, yeah, you know. So yeah, it's just support for men because it's a very unfamiliar space, yeah. Let's say.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um, the support for men for me, I'd say, hey, if your wife doesn't do what Nicole did for me in terms of um taking years and years, maybe not let me I I say years and years, but it's really if you don't take time to educate someone, then it has to be your responsibility as a doing. I remember leading up to the birth, I was now the one who was on on this um birthing watch. To date, my algorithm, my phone still thinks we're pregnant, and continues to to send me stuff, and I don't, and I actually don't um swipe away or or or ignore, I still read. I think the biggest support for men to make it possible for the trauma not to be a thing for you after or during a birth, exposure therapy. Exposure therapy does not mean go and look for the worriest of birth videos online. It is it is like any it's like anything in life. If you do it little by little, continuously exposing yourself to something, you become more comfortable with the outcome. So I think the trauma is largely because of to be fair, it's ignorance. It's a high level of ignorance on our part and a and a massive disinterest as well on the part of dudes. There's a very big disconnect. Um, I don't remember ever sitting down in a group of dudes until recently.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like a month ago, where we are sat down and we're talking about birth. It's the common um, the common, let me not say the common, but the way we are we are socialized and and the way we're used to, is that sounds like a thing which ladies will sit down and talk about on the side, and then whatever, me, I'll support and look for the money for the hospital and like my role is very, and I think that continues on into the raising of the children as well. If you don't lock in to participate at that level, then you really are just a financial muscle or support system. But other than that, that's not enough. I think exposure to it and an intentional interest, interest for you to learn and educate yourself about it. I think it is an absolute uh nightmare when when you're ignorant about what is, for example, capable of taking the life of the wife away. Like you're about to lose the special person, you can lose your child, and you know little to nothing about it. The source of trauma is I think the source of trauma is the ignorance. Um, I'm yet to find someone who repeated exposure to it has not resulted in them being a little bit more comfortable. Does it mean you'll never be uncomfortable? No, I discomfort is not necessarily a bad thing, but to completely be detached from it, to be like a fly on the wall during the process and the whole journey leading up to it, I think, is a is a great disservice because it the burden of of that bravery, the burden of the of the locking in is fully on one person. But when when two of you, two are better than one, I think. That's what I'd say in terms of support.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. I feel like your answer took me by surprise. I was feeling bad for men, but now I've realized actually I do more work.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. We've got to do more work. We have to. I think we're lazy. We're lazy when it comes to women's health. And when I say lazy in terms of women's health, we don't take enough time to learn what it means. And I think that's the reason why you realize there's a lot of um, even historically, when it came to, for example, contraception, women always wondered how come the burden of uh of contraception is lying fully on the part of the lead.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But when you sit down and think about it, you realize that that is because of it's us, we've just sat down and let it go. That's the truth. We've let it go. We can do better. And yes, you can feel sorry for a dude who is really struggling to come to the to terms with and going to sit down in the bathing room where um his significant other will be delivering. But at the same time, when you look at us at our jobs, we deal with uncomfortable situations all the time. Yeah, it's just not this one. So it's like I've just chosen this is the one which I'm not going to be comfortable with. And it's okay to choose things like that, but you need to also count the cost. Once you've sat down and counted the cost, and are you comfortable with the possibility of you not being supportive in this? If that's something you're willing to live with, then really I don't think what sort of a deal are you? Why why would you don't have kids? Yeah, don't even lie with how don't even get married. Just just don't if you're going to be part of the process, be part of the process from start to finish. But don't don't want to contribute only where you're comfortable. Because even I don't think there's any lady who usually says they gave birth and wow, what a wonderful experience. Like the pain is brilliant. I don't want to be in pain every day. No, it's it's beautiful in the sense that what comes out of it is beautiful, but the process is it has its ups and downs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Blood wouldn't flow if it wasn't painful.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, so good. I feel like, yeah, I didn't think about it that way. And then, yeah, maybe now you can tell us the bath from your perspective. Because you know, Nicole was going through her contractions, you were doing your own thing. What did it look like watching her labor? And then yeah, just speak to how it was versus how you expected it to be. If you did have expectations.

SPEAKER_00

I walked in with generally I walk into life with little to no expectations, but that's never fully the truth. There's always some sort of idea you imagine it should be like, and for you, you'd imagine it's ideal. My ideal before the labor was Nicole goes into labor, and in 30 minutes we call the midwives or something, they come, and in another 30 minutes the baby is out. Like my hope was she'd give birth like an Israelite. Like the baby is out, quick in, quick out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That was far from the truth. Um, Nicole went into labor on Tuesday. I remember walking into the house and and I saw her, I found her sleeping on that day. And that wasn't it that day just felt different. It was not normal. She seemed more tired than she should be. So randomly in the middle of me coming home after woken her up, now we're just talking, we're hanging out. I was home like I think of only 40 minutes. Then she's like, I'm feeling some discomfort in clearly. And over the last couple of, as she was coming closer to town, she would have the Braxton Hicks and everything. So every time she said that, I'd ask her, describe to me what you're feeling. Because at this point, obviously, I've spent enough time contact hours learning what it should feel like. But you never fully understand it until the day itself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because now you get to experience it real time and it's different for different people, different styles. So in the middle of her telling me she's having discomfort and some pain, I ask her what it's like. And Nicole is a radical optimist. There are times when she'll feel something and brush it off until it's really, really serious, is when that's the time she'll mention. And then there was some shortly after, there was some bloody show. And this time I've come from work. There's a particular deadline that's due the next morning, Wednesday morning. And it had been looming around the corner, and we used to joke with her, even up to that weekend. I was joking with her, I was telling her, do not give birth until after this deadline. Because it's a hard deadline, and it's a deadline that the time it's going to take to onboard someone else to handle it is going to be more than I can imagine. So you really need to, if there's anything you can whisper to your child and tell them to wait a little bit, just tell them to wait. That was not to be the case.

SPEAKER_01

You manifested that to deliver.

SPEAKER_00

I messed myself up big time. She goes into, she got some, her mucus plug started coming out on that day. Uh, shortly after. And then when it comes out, she looks at it and she's like, no, this is not mucus. It's and I'm like, what have we gone through all these months where I'm reading, I'm learning, and this is this could be it. She continues to postpone. It didn't last an hour. Now it became real contractions and stuff. Like you can feel uh she could she was in pain. And I think from the time that she started feeling the discomfort, and that wasn't really Braxton Hicks and going away, to the time that she was now sure these are contractions when now she took out her phone, and I told her, now start timing them so that we know what this really is. Because I've during this period we've heard of stories of ladies who go into, I think they call it the drum or labor or something of the sort, and then in Aisha and continues another day. So I told her, let's just keep timing them and progressing. So at this point in time, I'm panicking, but I haven't told her. I'm panicking because she's going into labor, I haven't finished um the work required for this deadline, and the way things are looking, if at all she's in labor, I'm sunk. Because if she gives birth now, I'm not going to be able to do any of this, and definitely the deadline is missed or I've messed up something. So for like two hours, I was just sitting staring and thinking and wondering, hey boss, what am I going to do? So she came to the room where I was working. I was trying, I I told myself, okay, now because she's going to labor, I have to lock in, I need to pull like an orniter or somehow find a way to get this work done. And then hopefully is when the child will come. So she decided, okay. So I told her, you hang out where I am, and I'll I'll try work as we as we time them and see, since we're still very early and hoping it's early. I realized really quickly, and I think it's her whole project, my realization. From the time she came in to the room. So there's this running, there's this joke for architects, usually when you've hit a block in your mind when you're you're present, but you're not able to get anything done. So you just zoom in and zoom out of your screen. You just keep zooming in, zooming out, zooming in, zooming out. I did this for two hours.

SPEAKER_02

No way.

SPEAKER_00

When I'm just zooming in, zooming out, and I realized I'm not working. And she did realize it as well. Because anytime a contraction came, I'm done and tried to attend to her in whatever way she wanted. Another thing I thought, now you asked that what was my expectation. Another thing I thought, and I kept reading is uh how to support your wife, is maybe she may want you to rub her back with um or some stuff. Yo, for me, that was nothing like it. It was like, no, just leave me alone, don't touch me. Don't talk to me. So, and and and I think that's another thing. You it's a very helpless process for us. As I mentioned earlier, I can't carry and I can't deliver, and I'm not the one who's going to go through the bathing experience. But I am actively part of this thing. So she's going through this. I'm trying to work here, it's not working out. Then she was like, you know what? Let me go to our room so that you can kind of get some space to work. And that is the biggest lifesaver on her part. I I would have never told her to leave.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But she had the presence of mind to realize that the way I am, it's highly unlikely I'm going to be able to get anything done as she's going through something that's difficult, or as long as she's going through something, it's going to affect my ability to do whatever I need to do. So when she went away, I'd only hear her get up out of the bed, walk around when the contractions come in, and she's so I'd shout and ask her, is that a contraction? Then she's like, Yeah, and she's timing that. Um, this goes on the whole night. Remember, I was hoping for 30 minutes. This goes on the whole night. And at the risk of catching strays from people, I I worked the entire night while jumping between the two rooms. And I think it was a good thing that I had that deadline. I can't imagine having stayed in the room and all I was doing is just watching her because she was sleeping literally 10 minutes, 10 minutes asleep, then she asked for contractions. 10 minutes asleep. If become if it was a lot, maybe 15. On a really good one, 20 minutes, but there was no period during this whole time. Remember now the last time we slept is Monday night.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So we are both tired, and I can't have imagined having um just sat and watched her. So kind of the work was a good distraction.

SPEAKER_01

I would have told you to sleep, though.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. I agree now, and you'll hear what happened now on the Wednesday when it was being delivered. You would have told me to sleep, but now the pressure was a lot, I wouldn't have slept.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because she's having contractions here, I'm having work there, I'm having basically everything was failing. Because I remember telling her at some point, if I have to fail at something, let me fail at least on one thing, but not everything.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So it's either I support you or I finish this work or I do both and somehow manage.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, by God's grace, I'm lucky. I managed to finish the work by 8:30 in the morning. At 8:30 in the morning, she's had contractions the whole day. So she's having contractions all night, me, I'm working all night. And I managed to, man, is a killer kitu and sent in what I needed to send in. Now I can focus on the labor. So at 8:30, I'm like, this is fantastic. So now you can give birth. You now give birth. Ah, wow.

SPEAKER_01

Did you take a nap like after the deadline?

SPEAKER_00

No, I fell asleep. There's a time I fell asleep. I fell asleep immediately after I sent because oh yeah, and I moved also. I moved now from the other room when um somewhere in the middle of the night around 3 a.m. the contractions became super painful. So I thought this is it. So I went and took my laptop, I brought it to the bed, so I'm putting it on the bed. So I'm kneeling down on the side of the bed. I work on the laptop as I as I watch her sleep and contract between the two. Biggest mistake of my life.

SPEAKER_02

Why?

SPEAKER_00

After our son was born. When you moved to the bed and had the worst posture in the bed. For like two months, I had the worst back pain I've ever had. Because now I had I had been alternating between kneeling down on the side of the bed. I don't know if you know this position where you you you're working, you're working with only your mid-back to your head risen from the bed. So I was in excruciating pain. I remember the first time when um I tried picking him up to wash him within the night, I think the second day after he was born, to wipe him down and wash him. I bent down and stayed down. I was having so much back pain. And it's simply because of the most atrocious poster that you can possibly choose to have doing anything. Anyway, at 8:30, I remember I went down for a nap immediately after I sent the work and uploaded it online. And um what woke me up was a contraction, and then um we had when we had informed both you and the midwives, I believe, when we had started going to live up. So she came in, she was supposed to come in at nine, it moved to 11. So in my mind, I was like, if she's coming at 11, and remember me, I'm still hoping for a 30-minute bath after a whole night.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So this midwife won't make it on time. You call me that bath by the time the midwife has come. She did not give birth. The midwife came in at 11. During this time, we're just playing this game of contractions. She came in at 11 to check how many centimeters of dilation we had. You would not believe, I was so discouraged, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, you do.

SPEAKER_00

I was so discouraged. I was so discouraged. When she checked Nicole and found she was only three centimeters dilated, I was like, that's what I would have expected after five minutes of contractions. This is the whole night, and you're telling me we were three centimeters. I was so discouraged. And at this point, Nicole hasn't slept much, Nicole hasn't eaten much, and she's now getting tired. On top of getting tired, she's added um, there's now vomiting and there's diarrhea as well. So energy is very quickly going down. And now I'm I'm I'm in between that part where I need to decide are we still within the safe zone of going through this home labor, home birth, or it's now time to transition and go somewhere. But all through, I think was we're having a conversation on the group, so you're feeling safe. You're feeling kind of safe. If the middle of the we are good, so even me, I'm I'm going to just be okay. And as I mentioned earlier, no giving the mom anxiety for whatever reason. If there's anyone who should be worried, let her be the one who's worried on her own. But I cannot be the one who's giving her that anxiety and stress and making her feel like maybe we're not in a good place. This goes on and on. During the time the midwife was here when um when she came, now the puking started, and that's another thing which was ridiculous. Um, for some reason, Nicole preferred to puke on the carpets for me. This carpets that you hear, I was busy trying to fight. So when a contraction comes, she's walking around leaving. You leave a tiled area to go vomit on carpet. And I was just like, to a point I told her, This looks intentional. This looks absolutely intentional. You can't you can't do this. Like, let's let's confine the contraction walk to the tiled areas. And I completely removed there's one carpet in the house, that one there. I rolled it up and and put it away and told her, now this corridor here, walk up and down this corridor the whole time if you want to. And at some point, I even went and brought a bucket. And I was like, if this vomit is coming out without you knowing, she will walk with this bucket there. And and and in the middle of giving her the bucket, I was like, no, this is not very supportive of me. I took the bucket and told her, okay, fine, you let me remove this carpet, you walk there. So she was walking there the whole time. And I think that's the point where um I realized she's very weak and tired. And and at the same time, I think now this is why you were mentioning you should have told me to sleep. Like if it were you, you would have told me to sleep even if there was work. That poor decision-making process of bringing her back to work with, or or I'll tell you the other one at the end after the baby was born, that was crazy. It's because of no sleep. That high pressure operation of oh, there's labor, there's deadline, there's nini, and you're doing all this and not resting. That 10 out of 10 wouldn't recommend. If there's anything you can do to rest up, rest up as much as you can, and that's for both of you. I realized she wasn't able to put anything, keep anything down. Whatever I gave her, I gave her dried fruit, I gave her water, everything. I gave her she's very athletic, so we participate in the trial every every yeah. Number of times or once at least every year. So I gave her one of our hydration uh drinks that didn't stay down. She kept that down for like okay, I think 15 minutes or so vomited or something. So at some point I was like, ah, let's try dried fruit one piece at a time. Hopefully, get some sugar, give you some energy. Because you have already told us when we when we called you the first time and we told you I think we're in labor. She told us eat, shower, sleep. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. When she went to showers when she left me to now work in the room. So um I'm telling her you look like you're really tired and your the contractions clearly are not getting better than to get worse. So we need to, that's when I told her now you really need to lock in because this was the plan. The plan was we're going to give birth at home. But the plan that we had, we were told to deviate from the plan and go to hospital when either there is maternal distress or fetal distress. And the first thing that result in this maternal distress or fetal distress is if you're tired, for example, in the middle, if you quit in the middle, or if there's a health situation that comes up where you can't do this safely anymore. So you really need to figure out a way to get energy or not. So me, I'm discouraged by that, but I'm not telling I'm so done. At that point, I'm I'm I'm like, hey.

SPEAKER_01

And are you freaking out because you're by yourself? Are you feeling like we need someone else here? I'm not equipped to deal with all this.

SPEAKER_00

Um, you're just like not, not really, not at that phase. And the reason why I think is because of you guys as well. You guys weren't freaking out on the WhatsApp group. So I'm like, if they're not freaking out, um maybe I have no reason to freak out. Maybe they think we're okay. They think we're okay. So even and generally, I think when under pressure, I'm not someone who at least now, maybe when I was younger. Right now, I think when and also I think because of the nature of our work, pressure and deadline is not something which is rare. So you kind of get used to just operating under not the best circumstances.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I I wasn't freaking out visibly externally, but mentally, hey, I was all these things are going on in your head. And I think one of my biggest fears with all this stuff is we're doing something people don't agree with. Nobody has ever done that, we know. If anything, anything whatsoever anything is, death being the worst case, if anything happens, 1000% is going to be blamed on the fact that why the hell are you guys getting burned out of the house?

SPEAKER_01

In the first place.

SPEAKER_00

Are you sick? So those are the things I think that was my biggest source of confusion and and anxiety for me. So at that point, I think I just said I might as well just shoot in the dark, hope one of the arrows left. So I went and got um an isogel, which is what we use during the triathlons as well. I the hydration drink already failed. So I got a hydration, I got uh a gel, an energy gel to just give her and see what happens. Hopefully she'll take it because she was already also not very cooperative. That's when I talked to her and told her you need to work here. So may I don't know whether me talking to her at that point, I don't know whether it's worked, or that's just a hotel that has gone over her head. Um it turns out it did work. Two, she was very appreciative of it as well. Yeah, so that's really important as well. The nature of our relationship before allows me to have that ability to at least tell her and be stunned and and be firm with her and tell her this is the bath plan you gave me. I'm sticking by it as long as you are sticking by it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So you wanted this, you need this, and this is what we must do. So, whatever it takes to get energy in, we're going to use it. I remember when I gave her the chart on gel, the the chart, the energy gel. I was like, I think it would be safe for someone to believe it. I'm not a medical professional, I have no idea. I'm shooting in the dark, but I'm hopeful. And she was gracious enough to take it. I couldn't believe it when I came back ten minutes later and she had finished the whole um the whole gel uh pack. I was like, oh my goodness. I didn't think she'd I actually thought she didn't even taste it because you know they're not a tea, it's not like a juice, they don't taste terrible, but it's not something which you generally consume for fun. When I found her having taken it, I can't tell you the jolt of energy I got. I'm the one who got her jolt, and I was so encouraged. I was so happy. I even told her you've even taken it. I was like, I can't believe what you have done. I'm so great. Thank you for doing that. And it did work for a short time. No, maybe not a short time. You managed to keep that down for what? Was it about an hour or less than an hour? It was maybe an hour over an hour. And typically this stuff is meant to go into your system really quickly.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, so it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00

And if the stomach is empty, it'll go in faster, kind of maybe, but not that's don't quote me for that. I'm not a scientist, it maybe I may be wrong. Because I think maybe during labor that's different. But the idea is this to get into your system as fast as possible. And she puked eventually, yes. But something went in.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And from the time she took it around midday to 2 p.m., that uh zombie energy she had started moving within the middle of contractions went away. So I don't know whether that was a mental shift for her or it was the gel worked. Either way, I was so grateful. At 2 pm, I think is when now, and I think that's now why when um Asher and um and Womboi they were saying we're dangerous people, or I'm dangerous. At one or two, I wrote in the group, I'm inclined to believe that we have now progressed to a different stage when she now had bloody shoulders a lot of blood and depreciated blood. Oh, she does. I'm so encouraged at that point. So me, I'm riding. When the highs come, we're riding the highs. When the lows come, we try to get them back.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think you guys would have had a free birth if it wasn't for Asher being like, Hey, these guys are too calm. Let me start making my way. Possibly. So that's how now she found you guys. Possibly. So yeah, and so I'm boy.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. So when the bloody, when the blood now starting to come out and it was deeper, and the contractions were becoming more and more painful when now um Nicole and Baby were back to back. He hadn't turned. So that pain is happening, and and I at I think at two, I just looked at her when she was going up and down and the contractions increasing in intensity. I said, Hey, Harper, I need to do something about it. Something has to happen. So I was like, Do I call the midwives? Do I call Nicole? Do I who do I what do I do? And I was like, This guy, even if I call them, if they take long, she might give birth over here. And and I was like, no, he's not about to be born on tiles. It falls for us on the tiles. So I say, one boy left the bathing pool and everything of theirs here when she came earlier to check her. I might as well fiddle with these things and try set up the bathing pool here in the middle and figure it out somehow. So I go connect the pipe, I get the bathing pool. I think you've you've watched the video of me inflating the pool, it's ridiculous. I've never inflated one before, and now this is where now the sleep is checking in.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, since I've done a few DIY things here and there over my life in my life, and I come from home where guys do DIY, figuring out how to pump an inflatable pool shouldn't be that difficult. That day it was insane. It was rocket science. It was rocket science. And I called I called my bro, but him I called him at what did I call him? Did I call him about the inflating pool of the pipe?

SPEAKER_02

Both.

SPEAKER_00

Basic stuff wasn't making sense. Basic, basic things that I should like when I look at it right now, I had to fail at inflating it the first time because I managed to get it to put in air. How to close it now? I was just like, this is crazy. The air was coming out. And I was like, I can't do this. So I just sat down. I went, I looked at the pool for a bit, then I figured it out. So I pumped it. And obviously, since we've never had a child before, I don't know what temperature the water should be. All I know it's hot. So it needs to be hot water, warm water. The baby can't be coming in. It can't be, it can't, it can't be it should be like showering kind of water. Now there's a problem which is there. Uh side note, this is very relevant. My bathing water and her bathing water is very different. What she showers is the water shower. Has is water. Has is the one for removing feathers from chickens.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's the one you shower with.

SPEAKER_00

She she thinks my water is disgusting to shower with that kind of water. How she's showering in something which when I enter, it's like, am I supposed to die in here? What's supposed to happen in here? So automatically, my my thermostat that determines how hot this water is is not there. In the video, you will hear there's a part where I ask her. I ask her something about this pool, and I didn't know it was in the middle of a contraction. So she's walking up there, pulling her clothes over and everything. She's like, I'm not the right person to ask her. And that's when I realized we're both tired. She's tired, I'm tired, I don't know. I'm tired because I'm I'm locked in. Yeah, I'm going full steam ahead. This baby's being born, whether Kina Asha and we are here or not, I've got to be ready.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And somehow I managed to get it. I filled, I filled the thing, and in the middle of filling the pool, I didn't feel it by the time Usha was here. I was in the middle of it. I was continuing to do it. And mind you, I'm bringing I'm putting in cold water now. This is cold water I'm putting in. Then I wanted to put a coil inside. An inflexible pool is made of plastic. So when Asher comes in, I now transition from being the midwife, nurse, husband, and cleaner. Remember, she's been puking in the house. Yeah. So I've been doing these things while trying to clean the house as well. Now that's a personal issue on my part. But I can't imagine the possibility of having left vomit like on the floor. Then he just sleeps on it. So I'm dealing with all these things as they come, and we just got to like, yeah, I'm stressed, but we've got to do what we've got to do. So when Usha comes in, I move from being the midwife, nurse, husband, cleaner, and everything to now being at least the assistant. The midwife assistant. Now that's where the confusion hit. Apex, Yote. Because now I've I've I think the fatigue is settling in, and now someone else is there who I can ask the questions I would have asked the laboring lady. The one who's in labor, I can't ask her. So let me ask the midwife. So the midwife tells me, she there's a time she gave me, I think, like 10 instructions all at once, and I'm trying to execute all these things. So she just saw me hit a blank over. I just looked at her. I was like, yo, I'm out. So she tells me, bring me that.

SPEAKER_02

So I bring it.

SPEAKER_00

Bring this. Did you you guys bought the sheets that you're going to put in there over this place? Bring that. You've covered here. I'd done at least 25-30% of the setup that is supposed to be done. But everywhere is everywhere all at once. This sofa where I'm sitting where and Danny was born. We hadn't yet uh set this up because we didn't know what the plan was. Me and you were not using the couch. We're using the pool. Using the pool. That's why I've been filling this whole thing for the last one hour plus, you know. One boy tells me bring the coil and bring buckets. So I'd already brought some buckets. So bring the coil, bring the buckets. So I filled the buckets, then I plugged the coil in here into the socket, and I'm moving the coil into the pool. I'm done putting it inside the pool, into the plastic pool. So both Asher and and and and Nicole, even in the middle of her labor, she's like, Yo, what are you doing? You're going to burn the pool. Yo, I'm out. I'm not in the right state right now. Anyway, it went well. I I so Asher took it, put it in the bucket. So we're now hitting this water. One thing I forget to mention, by the time Usha is coming home, Nicole is kind of now pushing already. Yeah. She's pushing. Because now she was bearing down while the contractions are happening, and Asher checks her. So when Asher and all these things is happening in the middle of Asher giving me 14,000 instructions for me to follow. While I'm also still trying to own my own brain and do things independently without having to be a full robot where I just follow what she's told me because I also can't hear everything she's telling me at that point. So when she checks Nicole, I think Asher to date has never told me. But now when I look back, I realize Asher just didn't want to let me down and tell me the truth from the beginning. About about this efforts I'd put in. I'd put in so much effort to set this place up, but I think she realized we're not doing this because I'd set it up in the way that they don't set it up as well. They have to do the lining inside as well. Me, all I was caring about is um total kickwata. No, yeah, that's not happening. That's not how I envisioned it. You asked about expectations, and I told you I came in with no expectations. That's a lie. The fact that I was doing all these things means I had a certain idea of how things should work. But it didn't work out. Long story short, Asher checks Nicole and realizes very quickly this is not happening. We're not doing this pool thing. So in the middle, she tells me mission is being abandoned. We're doing this thing on on the on the on the on the sofa. Instead of following her instructions, the first thing I ask her, Are you sure?

SPEAKER_01

Why? Why can't we bring it in the mother? Are you sure? How can we make it work?

SPEAKER_00

How can we make this thing work? Can't I just put more hot water? Like I can bring hot water here. Like there's two buckets here that are hot water already. Let's just put it in. Then I just remember Asher dipping her finger and said, uh she put her finger inside the pool, tested the water, and she's like, uh-uh, the water is too cold. I still didn't believe it. I put my hand inside, and I was like, What is not cold? I shower with this. Before even Asher responded, I just said, Okay, fine. What do you need? I went and got everything here. Nicole was checked with contraction. She says it was super painful. I remember her screaming. Nicole threw Asher onto the sofa on the other side and started walking around screaming. And I think in the middle of that is when now one boy comes in as well. Umboy comes in when you're now pushing. When uh Asher set up the whole place, she's already told me what to bring, we've moved everything and all that. I'm just glad the one thing I was given a job to do by my wife, I did. She told me whatever you do, set up the tripod and get the camera.

SPEAKER_01

And you got such a nice angle. Like he did, he actually won.

SPEAKER_00

The first thing I did before all the other confusion, before I even started setting up, I just put it there and hit record.

SPEAKER_01

And I love it.

SPEAKER_00

And I left it there, and I said, I'll not think about this thing ever again until I just said the rest is history. One boy comes in, and I remember one boy, um, she didn't even finish removing her shoes. So she's removing her shoes and wearing the gloves, then she peeps because Nicole was kneeling on the sofa. Then she's like, Oh, he's already come. Because I think his head had been now bobbing, it had been turtling and coming out. And uh I think the only things I remember at that point in time was when he he fell out of he fell out of her. We were we were hoping initially that Atihad would be the one to grab him and catch him when he came out. That didn't work very well because I was also the guy who was being squeezed as as as he there's one time she she she pushed, she she gripped my neck and and and applied so much pressure. I started blacking out like a million as in here. So I started squatting, and I'm squatting, trying to get out of the green. And the more I go down, the more she's pushing harder. And at that point, everything is getting a little dimmer, and I'm like, no. Then luckily, the contraction ends. The next contraction, I moved her hand and put her hand on my thigh. If you want to press something, press here. The neck is not where you're going to press. I'm going to pass out if you pass, if you if you keep pushing on that. He fell out, she picked him up, and and I remember, that's what I remember. Actually, I don't remember. I remember the the details faintly. That's when all the blood started gushing out when I was uncomfortable. Because your water broke, and I think in two more pushes. Because you I think you from the time we set up the sofa to the time um and then he was born, it was like five or six pushes or so. Yeah. And he was born. That was around four. He was born at 4 30. That's when it happened. Now the part which I was telling you, I was going to tell you the reason why sleep is important. After he came out, I swaddled in the warm. Now I remember also that. I was told to bring towers and hotel. You don't want to imagine what I thought those towels were for. I thought they were supposed to be warm for them to be put on you. Obviously, now I know that I should have known they're not for the baby when the baby comes out.

SPEAKER_01

At least you didn't think it was for you.

SPEAKER_00

I see you here now. This is the craziest part. Um, the baby has been wrapped in the warm towels and everything. Mommy is extremely happy. She doesn't even know she's bleeding like a crazy me. I'm concerned. Hush is just, oh my baby. Me, on the other hand, I'm I'm I'm faded. Now I'm almost like, hey, it is over. I get to rest finally. It's it's done. What started at 8 p.m. on Tuesday has ended at 4:30 on Wednesday. Then in the middle of this, one boy asks me, go get a hat. Then I'm like, why? For who for me, I'm okay. I can just wipe my sweat. So this whole period, we hadn't, we since we're locked in, we're not noticing. I was sweating profusely. So as much as I'm not anxious in the sense that you'll see me crashing out, yeah, I was sweating like a mad guy. She told me go get a hat. So we thought this hat was supposed to protect my sweat from dripping on the mother and the baby. So I thought I was making the whole place not sterile, it's not safe anymore. So I asked Wamboy, the hat for me. I can't forget that. If anything, that's the thing I remember the most. Mumboy looked at me like the biggest idiot she's ever seen in her life. Why would we need a hat for you? That's what she told me. That's when I was just like locked in, and I remember that point. Nicole just stepped in, she realized this girl is out. She told me there's a hat for the baby in the diaper bag that we packed them. So the other thing is we had packed our bag. So people who care about us have been telling us all the time. So obviously, as we knew this bag we're packing is not bag bag. Hospitals, it's for sure. Yes, now we had a hospital bag. So anytime someone asks, Do you have a hospital baggage? Yeah, we have a hospital bag grading. So I went into that bag, I brought the hat. After I gave the child the hat, now I was focused on Nicole who was bleeding. And that's why I think Komboya and Dasha are so brilliant. If we ever had another kid, I'd tell them not to do that because now I know better. I know them. I know them.

SPEAKER_02

But they realized that I was getting concerned about what's going on in here.

SPEAKER_00

So I am asking questions, but asking them questions while mommy is dazed with her baby. Very quickly, I was I was confused and disenfranchised from that whole process and told, um uh daddy, it's time for skin to skin. I was tolerating from Ukuchini to investigate what's going on and giving the baby to do skin to skin while they start doing um their post uh delivered investigations. Are there is that tear? Um, is she healthy? After birth, is it on the way? Is everything good? Long story short, there was so much. There was so much blood going on there. They are such good professionals, they they are able to gauge midway, and to date, they've not told us that that's what they're doing. It's now us who are just realizing now later. Because everything I asked, no answers. The the answers were there, but it was reflective, and it's trying to make her comfortable, make me comfortable. Because panic is the worst thing you want to do. Yeah, absolutely. So, and and I don't fault them for that. I think they did a good job. I think for me, it's just the desire to be in control and know. Other people may not have coped very well. Because I know people who I know people who blackout, but they can curtail the ability of Bombay and Asha to do their job.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They would be, hey, why are you cutting that? What do you need that for? And for me, I realized that's not uh that's not very helpful. In any medical setup, healthcare, you let the doctor do their part, ask questions, um, work together as opposed to to work against. And if you really don't know what they're doing, you might as well shut up, you know. But you can ask, and if they don't really disclose it, you can watch quietly. So that's what I did. And yeah, that's my version of it. I'm sure Nicole has a more detailed account of it as well.

SPEAKER_01

Pretty much the same. You even use the same words.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, really? Yeah, I guess, I guess, yeah. That's that's pretty much what she was like.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So, how do you rate it now four months later? Just the whole four months later, home birth? Yeah, home birth, the care you got, yes.

SPEAKER_00

The care I got you out of ten, twelve out of ten.

SPEAKER_01

Oh nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

All of it, all of it, the whole thing. I think we're so blessed and lucky to have had the right team. And someone would think, oh, I'm just saying this because I'm campaigning for my doula or something.

SPEAKER_01

No, or you are just lucky.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not no, I'm not lucky. I'm I think okay, to be honest, um I think there's a bit of uh for who me and Nicole are, we got exactly the right thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, what we needed, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe for other people who have different personalities, different anxiety levels, they would I don't see what could possibly make someone not have had a good experience. I personally did my experience. Um, I've told all my friends about it and told them if you have the pos um, if you have the confidence, the and I don't even know why it needs confidence. If you just have the desire to experience um the full scope of the birthing experience and to actually witness the power behind it. I was telling Nicole the sad part about it is uh doctors as good and important as they are, God's glory and shine has been taken away from him and given to doctors, where people believe the only way you give birth is if a doctor is involved. But now you miss out on all these other things that God has naturally already given to a woman during birth. You don't get to witness that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So my experience with the whole thing, I would 12 out of 10 recommend it for everyone in terms of if you have a vanilla pregnancy which has no complications, no concerns that are significant, nothing out of the ordinary. There's absolutely no reason why you can't give birth at all.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But now, also, particularly in terms of the team, we spent a good amount of time because I remember we had Nicole reached out to two or three dollars. Nicole considered also talking to, I think, another group of midwives as well. And of all those people who Nicole interviewed and talked to, it was you and Umboya and Asher who stuck for us as the team that we work with. So 1000% would recommend it for everyone, honestly. I don't see any, I wouldn't do it any other way for where God bless us with another kid. I'd do the same thing.

SPEAKER_02

Nice against uh many people at the judgment.

SPEAKER_00

But I'd I'd do the same thing. I don't think they experienced what I experienced. And I am now even more confident.

SPEAKER_01

Love it.

SPEAKER_00

I know the temperature of the water that it should be. I'll never chase my tail like that again and sleep. I'll sleep if I'm asked about the baby's heart, I'll know whose heart it was I was supposed to bring. I know it would. I I'm I'm so ready for someone told me the other day. Oh, have you ever considered maybe now you can start doing this? No, I'm not ready to do this as a job and join you guys whether you or anything. That's just for you and your people. That's just for me. I would not voluntarily put myself through that again unless it was my one.

SPEAKER_01

Nicole.

SPEAKER_00

Would I do a free birth?

SPEAKER_01

You basically did.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I there's there's the after care part that I have no confidence in because I was sent to go do skin to skin. I was convinced to doing skin to skin so that I don't watch what's going on here.

SPEAKER_01

But you call the midwife after, like me, my midwife came after the stitches. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I I I Nicole, you're asking if I'll do a free birth.

SPEAKER_01

If she says so, not yet there.

SPEAKER_00

But if you're there, yeah, he'll catch up. I I I can I I I I'll have nine months to catch up and we'll get to that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, thank you so much for sharing.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being our doula and um thank you for being our friend now. I know, and and Denise. Thank you. Yes, I found out that was great. That's another thing.

SPEAKER_01

And that's a wrap for today's episode. If this conversation sparks something in you, share it with someone who needs to hear it so they can feel a little more confident and a lot less alone. We would love to hear from you, so leave a comment and follow the pod so you don't miss any new episodes. We're building a community and we'd love for you to be part of it. Until next time, take care of yourself.