The English Wine Diaries
The English Wine Diaries is a weekly interview series with Rebecca Pitcairn, writer, editor and English wine expert. Each week Rebecca is joined by a special guest from the world of wine (and beyond) to talk all about their English wine journey. From sommeliers to vineyard owners, hoteliers and some rather familiar faces too, discover how a love of wine – particularly that made on British soil – has helped shape their lives and careers. www.englishwinediaries.co.uk.
The English Wine Diaries
Episode 61: Gail Gardner, Managing Director Ashling Park Estate
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On this week's episode of The English Wine Diaries is Gail Gardner, Managing Director of Ashling Park Estate in the charming hamlet of West Ashling near Chichester.
It was after Gail spent some time living in Switzerland and was seduced by the romantic vineyards there that she convinced her family to plant vines back in Sussex and, in 2018 their English wine adventure began.
They planted the traditional champagne varieties of Chardonnay, Pinot noir and Pinot Meunier, as well as some Bacchus and Pinot Precoce, and have gone on to produce sparkling and still wines which have won numerous awards.
But with a fabulous estate at her disposal and a career in marketing, Gail wasn’t happy to settle for just producing award-winning wines. So, along with her team, she has developed Ashling Park into a thriving tourist spot that not only offers vineyard tours and tastings but a stunning first floor restaurant with views across the vines, luxury accommodation, designed by Lewes-based architect and Channel 4 Amazing Spaces co-host, William Hardie and there’s even a gin-making school.
We talk about the future of Sussex's wine tourism, the pressure to keep winning awards and how Gail hopes Ashling Park will continue to be a family affair for years to come.
For more information about Ashling Park Estate visit ashlingpark.co.uk or follow @ashlingpark on Instagram or @ashlingparkestate on facebook.
This episode of The English Wine Diaries is sponsored by Wickhams, The Great British Wine Merchant. Visit wickhamwine.co.uk to see their award-winning range of English wine with free delivery on orders over £40. The English Wine Diaries listeners can also get 10% discount on their first purchase by entering the code TEWD10.
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Hello and welcome to season 9 of the English Wine Diaries podcast. I hope you've had a great start to the year and are ready to get stuck into more stories from the world of English wine.
I'm your host Rebecca Pitkan, journalist and founder of the Southern Quarter, an online magazine all about English wine. Join me as I sit down with a special guest and talk all about their English wine journey.
From sommeliers to vineyard owners, hoteliers and some rather familiar faces too. Discover how a love of wine, particularly that made on British soil, has helped shape their lives and careers.
Welcome to the English Wine Diaries. The English Wine Diaries is kindly sponsored by Wickham's,
the Great British Wine. wine merchant. Did you know that while England has become renowned for growing the traditional champagne varieties of Chardonnay, Pinot Noir and Pinot Mournier,
we also go grapes such as Pinot Gris, Sauvignon Blanc, Merlot and a whole other bunch you might not expect. Fancy a muscat from Cornwall, a gamé from Kent or perhaps a chesula from Sussex.
Wickham's has a huge portfolio of English wine and has won awards for its collections. So whether you're after one of Britain's well -known favourites or want to try something a little off -piste,
check out wickhamwines .co .uk. And listeners of the English wine diaries get 10 % off their first order by entering the code TEWD10 at checkout.
That's TE... E W D 10. Joining me on today's episode of the English Wine Diaries is Gail Gardner,
managing director of Ashling Park in the charming hamlet of West Ashling near Chichester. It was after Gail spent some time living in Switzerland and was seduced by the romantic vineyards there that she convinced her family.
to plant vines back in Sussex, and in 2018 their English wine adventure began. They planted the traditional champagne varieties of Chardonnay,
Pinot Noir and Pinot Monnier and have gone on to produce sparkling and still wines which have won numerous awards. But with a fabulous estate at her disposal and a career in marketing,
Gail wasn't happy to settle for just producing award -winning wines. So, along with her team, she has developed Ashlyn Park into a thriving tourist spot that not only offers vineyard tours and tastings,
but a stunning first -floor restaurant with views across the vines, luxury accommodation designed by Lewis -based architect and Channel 4 Amazing Spaces co -host William Hardy, and there's even a gin -making school.
Gail, thank you so much for joining me. How are you today? Yes, fine. Lovely. Thank you. You've certainly had your workout for you and been very busy over the last five or six years.
Can we go all the way back to perhaps when you first had that sort of idea to plant vines back in Sussex and tell us about what Switzerland,
how that inspired you? Yes. Yes, you're right. I lived in Switzerland for a while, right in the Valle region. It's the canton,
it's the biggest canton for wine. And if you go along from Geneva Airport all into the mountains, it's just rows and miles and miles and miles on the train of vines.
And I fell in love with it. then not just the landscape of seeing the mountains and the and the vineyards and the peak of snow at the top it was all very romantic um but I uh when I had to come back to England and live here um I said to dad you know we've really got that amazing paddock um you've really got let's do it let's turn it into a vineyard so after much persuasion and we're him around my little finger
like you do, took myself off to Plumpton College to get some sort of background knowledge, and then convinced him to hand over his front garden. So.
Well, we should probably go back a step, actually. And can you talk a bit about how your family came to be at Ashling Park? Yes, so we've lived here 30 years now.
and we're all on the estate actually, so mum and dad are in the main house, although I'm trying hard to fish them out, trying to buy them a little flat or let them live below the garage or something like that,
but no. And we live behind in the coach house and with my three children who are my husband and my brother lives on the estate as well.
so it's all you know very friendly here. A real family affair but that's something that's really translated I think when you when you visit Ashling Park.
I've had the privilege of visiting a number of times and it's a really lovely setting so when you first planted those vines was it always the idea that you would sort of build more of a visitor experience.
Did you have that idea? at that point or how did that develop? - I think right at the beginning, we realized that it's not just a case of, you know, plant them and grow them,
they will come. We had to have a route to market really. And we felt that wine tourism was a better way for us,
especially as a boutique little vineyard vineyard and when I haven't got to worry about the exports and supermarkets and things like that,
I have my own customers as such. How did that vision kind of develop? What did you, because obviously, as I've said in the intro there, you've got a restaurant there, you know, because some people would potentially,
you know, have a cellar door, offer vineyard tours and maybe have some food on offer, but you've got, when I say it's a large establishment, it's it's not, you know, it's not spanning across a huge amount of acreage,
but what you have there is quite a big concept compared to other vineyards. Yeah, yeah, I think we decided that that it's such a beautiful estate that people would want to stay here.
And then you've got to think, well, you know, when they're here, there are obviously going to be doing the tours. But if they're staying here, they need some way to eat and other entertainment as well,
like the gin making experience in a gin school. And we also do cocktail making classes now. And so the idea is when you come here,
you don't have to leave you, you can, you know, drink away without worrying that you've got to drive off to a restaurant. restaurant or drive off for more entertainment. It's all here and you could do a whole weekend and never leave the gates.
Although it's in such a beautiful setting that behind us we've got King Lee Vale and then we're only a mile from the coast so if people want to go out of course they can because it's beautiful outside as well.
And actually one of my my first visit to Ashling Park was for the the launch of a cycle route. So you can also take bikes out and go and visit other vineyards. So you can sort of,
you know, and that all ties in to what I think is really being established in Sussex at the moment as the sort of heartland of English wine, but also of the English wine tourism movement.
And, you know, you've really been at the forefront of that because there was... was a growth plan launched last year by Sussex Modern and they're really wanting to establish and build the Sussex,
the wine lands of Sussex, I think they're kind of calling it as a tourism area. But you're kind of, you know, you're already built and set up in that sense. So you're really at the forefront of that.
Can you tell me a bit more about your involvement with the wider Sussex tourism sort of community? community? Yes, so we have meetings. In fact, we had one a couple of not last week,
the week before, and we all sort of fresh around ideas. And I'm on the edge of Sussex, so I'm only two miles away from Hampshire.
So I am keen to stretch it down this way, as well as going sort of up. up Plumpton way. So for a minute,
you step into Sussex, you can join on this trail and it would take you right way through to some amazing vineyards. I mean, it's all so beautiful and it's got such potential.
And in a couple of years time, let's hope it's as well established as we're all dreaming and hoping for. - Let's hope so. - Yeah, when I think of Plumpton. part of that is down to collaboration.
And obviously you talked about your meetings there that you have. What other vineyards do you sort of collaborate with? I know at the event that I came down to there, you were showcasing lots of different vineyards on your grounds.
But have you had any sort of partnerships and how do you sort of see the industry working together to push that forward? - Well, I've got connections with Western vineyards.
as well 'cause they're our contract winemakers. And then we've got Tim Wood, which is quite near us. So that's the first one you would go to,
I think, if you're on your route. And then server in, you've got the Ridgeviews and such like. So it's quite a few of us that can really get different elements to it.
as well so that you wouldn't be going to the same thing. Each tool would be different I think and each landscape's different and every experience would add something different to it so I think you can all work together without treading on each other's toes you know.
Yeah and we should really talk about the the wines that you produce because I've obviously that's a huge part of what you do as well as the visitor experience. How did you decide what grapes you wanted to plant?
Our sort of flagship wines I guess are the Sparklings. So we've got our Kuve, which is the cantigold and one best non -vintage English wine for the last...
Well, not... the last, two consecutive years. And then our Rose, our sparkling Rose again, that one best Rose in the UK for two consecutive years and our Blanc de Blanc.
And then we've also got our still wines, which we will only do when it's an amazing summer. So the last ones were made in 2022.
And we've got two Pinot Noirs, one which was in the tank method, and one that Dürmer and his wife Anna made for us, which is,
was in American and French oak for a year. So they're really interesting to drink together because they're from the same vineyard, picked the same day.
You know, everything else was the same apart. - That's amazing,
how did that go down? - Actually, again, that was from 2022. So it's lovely, it's really nice, it's fun, you know, it's completely different from our other sparklings,
which we concentrate on the long lees aging, you know, they all have eight years on the lees, so they're all briskety and brioche -y and whether the sparkling reds are a bit of fun and fruity and,
you know, fizzy and, you know, it's over. but it's going down quite well especially for Valentine's Day that's a good one to do and then also we've got our gin rum and vodka all made from our Pinot Noir base wine so well from the grapes so that's good and we'll go back and talk a bit more about the wines in a minute but I'm really interested in the sort of vineyards that have sort of diversified a bit into
spirits. What was that always part of the plan? - No, that came on later on. It was just, right now we've,
you know, each stage we get to, you can't do it all at once. I think we just go absolutely nuts if we did. And it's getting the money.
money to do these things as well. So that was, it wasn't an always going to be the plan, but it was an idea that has done well and it works well with the gym school as well.
So and the cocktail making classes that we are now doing that we use our own spirits in our cocktails. So that's good. Which is great. Yeah,
it's another way to bring bring people in and experience everything we do here. As you say, because I think a lot of the messaging that's coming out from Sussex vineyards and vineyards all over England is that,
you know, to enjoy a vineyard, you don't necessarily have to be into wine. You know, there's the surroundings and other activities and tools that you can do. So obviously with you offering the gin school,
that's fantastic. Can you tell us a bit more about what that experience is like? if somebody booked onto a gin or cocktail making? Okay, so we've got a room, it's all beautifully laid out. I mean copper stills just look fantastic in a room anyway,
don't they? All 10 of them. And you've got your own little still, we've got each, everyone has their own tray of botanicals and a little weighing machine and they weigh them all out and pop them on in and it's great seeing all the heads down and everyone really concentrating and then they just sort of bubble away and then they have to keep tasting them and it is fun,
it's a fun thing to do. And alongside obviously you've got the restaurant as well so people can book in and do a gin tasting vineyard tour, you can do the whole thing as you said at the top of the podcast.
a lot of people who don't want to go to the podcast but I know there's a lot of people who don't want to go to the podcast but I know there's a lot of people who don't want to go to the podcast but I know there's a lot of people who don't want to go to the podcast but I know there's a lot of people who don't want to go to the podcast but I know there's a lot of people who don't want to go to the podcast
but I know there's a lot of people who don't want to go to the podcast but I know there's a lot of people who don't want to go to the podcast but I know there's a lot of people who don't want to go to the podcast but I know there's a lot of people who don't want to go to the podcast your big ethos for you at the restaurant is sort of local produce. And I understand is your menu sort of only from a very
small radius you get your produce from? Yeah, ideally. So our butcher is only a mile away, so our esteemed, and actually he's been friends with my dad for years,
and we've known of him for years. So very, great and people like that locally as well but you can sort of point across the field and say oh that's where all the meat comes from and the chef will find anything on the estate to put in some of his dishes.
For example he does a lovely nettle barge and that's really lovely that's really popular um And, you know, it depends. Who's going to go and pick the nettles?
Who got the short straw? Yeah, yeah. So probably the junior chef, if he wasn't came in later, he'd have to go and pick the nettles. So, yeah,
no, it's all fun. And my two girls work in the restaurant as well. And my, well, they just both done their levels. two exams, their resets.
So let's hope that they sort of enjoy it and you know stay in the family business. Yeah, so I was going to say is that something that you would sort of like and encourage?
Well, I think so because that's the whole point of living on the estate and having the estate that we can you know literally afford to live here because we've got the business business running on a doorstep and keeping it in the family,
keeping the house in the family. So at the moment, they seem very willing, but we're pretty sure. - And do they all get out on harvest as well?
Are you all hands -on? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone has to go out on harvest, yeah. Yeah, even the dog joined in this year, so, yeah. (laughing) Talking of harvest, how are you?
how was it for you last year? Because it's the biggest in terms of the wider industry, it's the biggest harvest that we've ever had in Britain. How was it for you guys? - Yes, it was huge.
So I think the year before we picked something like 27, yeah, 27 tonne. And then this year we picked 45. - Wow.
- It was a definite increase. increase. And they've all gone to sparkling wines this year. Obviously, the climate wasn't great for still wines,
apart from a Bacchus. The Bacchus is easier for those sort of conditions. But yeah, so it all went sparkling wine. And how do you sort of,
I sort of touched on this before, but how do you decide what you're going to do? to do? Do you leave that very much down to the winemakers that you work with? Are you led by them, or do you have a kind of clear idea in your head what you want to do?
Yeah, it's, German is our wine consultant, so he still plays a part and sort of guiding us, because he's been fundamental in our journey anyway.
And so, and also you've got to look at this. stock levels as well. Also, obviously, turnover for sparkling wine,
because we have eight years on the lease. We're not going to see any of that for a long time, where the sparkling wines-- sorry, still wines-- you can get on the shelf and paying you back sooner.
So it's all little conditions like that. But at the-- weather, obviously, we can't control. So that's the main decision on what that's giving us and what Dermot suggests we do.
So have you had any particular challenges you must have done? I ask that question as if, of course, you have. But any that particularly stick in your mind over the last five or so years?
Well, the plan. planning was a big issue because we're in the South Downs National Park. So that did take three years to get through.
But we kept going and we got there in the end. Just as the concrete was arriving, then COVID arrived. Oh, goodness. So all the builders went off site.
And then I think once they realised they had to do a bit of help. for the kids at home they all came back. So yeah that's got to be the biggest challenge for anyone I guess in the last years I'm sure everyone would say the same that Covid played a major part but you know you've got to think strong and think well if I can get through Covid and I can get through the cost of living and you know crisis then you
know it can only get better. There was nothing you could do about it so there's no point going upset everyone else was in the same position but it did give us longer time to search and find you know rather than the builders saying right come on quick we need some light switches or something.
I had longer time to go and search and find all these lovely things. in the lodges and in, you know, the mirrors, the basins.
It all takes time, but time we all had then, all we could do was sit in front of our computers and search for things. So that did, in the end, that did work in our advantage,
I think. And it's paid off because it's such a beautiful environment down there, both the sort of main building and the lodges. I've been in both and they are stunning. So was that all,
was the inspiration, did that all come from you or did you work with an interior designer? How did that work? No, it was just me and Mum actually. And so,
and I think it's all gone lovely. The lodges are just beautiful, but I'm so pleased with them. And what we did was each lodges named after the different period of the vineyard.
So if you go in the first one, it's called the bud burst. And up on the ceiling, hand -painted ceiling is all little buds. And then the next one's called the flowering.
So the flowers appear, and then so on and so on through the cycle of the vineyard. So, and then we could change each color. So that, you know,
having that extra time to think these figs. things through that you know that help. And you work as I mentioned you worked with Will Hardie from TV's Amazing Spaces which everyone sort of knows but he's also he's local as well he's in Sussex in Lewis.
What drove the decision to sort of work with him? Well actually he was recommended by a guy that lived locally actually. and worked on him on I've forgotten the name of the estate but it was the Prince Charles estate down in Dorsetway and he said to us oh I know just the person who would be really good for this and of course we met him and he was literally drawing the lodges in front of me and he drew this like
big window seat and he was saying oh you're sitting in the window and you're you've got the log burner going and you're drinking the wine and you're feeling like you're inside and you're outside." You know, I was sold straight away,
you know, right? That's it, that's what I want nothing else to do. So yeah, so, but, and he's a lovely chap as well. Him and Hamish, his business partner,
they're both brilliant. So I loved working with them. - And tell us about, so it's four lodges you have there, is that right? - Right. Five. Five, sorry, five lodges. Three of them are two -bedroom,
two -bathroom, little living area, log burner, rooftop baths. And then two of them are one bedroom, one bathroom, living area,
etc. Little terraced. And then we have another one which is accessible. So I think that's really important. And they're all designed exactly the same.
So if you're staying in the accessible one, you wouldn't know the difference. It's just that the wheelchairs could get round if needed. And when we know someone accessible is coming to stay,
we have the bars and little chairs and things that we can adapt to the shower and the bathroom, but you wouldn't know. So it's not that it's just as beautiful at all.
the others and we just adapt it when we know that an accessible person has booked that. I'm just going to ask actually is there a particular sort of moment in your journey in your English wine journey where that's really really special to you?
Well I love it when journalists come obviously very excited and then when we had, oh, we also had WineGB here and they did one of the WineGB competitions.
So, you know, it was great to have those guys there and Oz Clark and Susie and everyone, and they're so lovely people. So, yeah, it's one high after another really,
it's very exciting. And can you tell me a little bit about what it was like when you had the first taste of one of your wines? Well, it was funny because Dermott gave us,
I think it was, you know, four different dosages of our cuve and we thought, well, you know, there's all the wine critics and people that you can get to taste it but we thought thought we'd rather our close friends or people that drinking it socially,
rather than drinking it, trying to sort of think, oh, how was this made? You know, that sort of thing. Just people that are drinking it because it's bloody lovely. And so we invited all our friends around,
popped all the corks and then got them all to do blind tasting. And then they all had to... to vote for their favourite. So that was a really good thing to do and in fact we did that on Friday night as well for our Wine Club members because we're just doing the dosage for the 2016 so they were tasting it as well so they all took part in the tasting so they all feel included so that's good.
That's so lovely. lovely for your friends to have had a kind of hand in in in your you know your wines and then also for as you say your customers then to be to be a part of your journey too how fabulous I'm actually currently just opening a bottle of your cuve actually because you kindly sent a bottle and we're going to do a little taste of it live on on on here.
Talk us through the classic cuve because this was the one that won the present Trophy at YNGB for two years running. Yes, yes.
And it also is decant gold. And that was one of the first competitions I entered it in. I had no idea. I just thought,
"Oh, I'll just pull it in, see how I do." And for that to get gold, I mean, we did swear a bit when we found out. It's quite shocking, but uh... so the problem is winning all these awards,
now you just, you know, that's what you're expecting all the time. But then your Rose has gone on to win a couple of awards as well,
hasn't it, so it's nice to have both. Yes, it has. And I think for all our wines, it's the time on Lees that does it, you know, bringing out all the, all those.
biscotti and brioche and all the, all those things that the lease can give it, but I think it's different than, you know, others on the market. This will be the one you sent me.
What vintage is this all? Fifteen. Fifteen. Okay. So, and it's a gourd, you know, the colour is absolutely stunning. It's a really lovely kind of golden,
not too gold. gold, but it's got a lovely, you know, gold, goldenness to it. And as you say, that you can, the leaves, you can obviously smell that,
it's had that ageing on these, but there's also, there's a freshness to it, you don't lose that freshness, it's not like that makes it overpowering at all. Yeah, no, that's correct. Lovely kind of,
bit of sort of stone fruit in there. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of getting, yeah. It's a lovely and a little bit of sort of honey -ness, honeydew. It's really lovely.
I mean, I have actually, I've tried this before. I'm not sure if I've tried the same vintage. I was going to say, do you actually put the vintages on the bottle? Do you, how do you? No, we don't. We don't. So, but this is a non -vintage.
Okay. No, it's predominantly from 2016. So it's classed as non -vintage, but yeah, okay, so you just have a little bit of reserve blend, do you? Yeah, that's right. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Oh, exciting. So, for you, what's been the best year, would you say? Obviously, you won the awards for specific years, but what for you has been your best year?
Well, I think once the wine tourism came on board as well, so it was the whole package that we could offer. And each year is just growing and growing,
as in people knowing about us, hearing about us, local support and support from the people that come and stay in the lodges.
There are lots of people coming from London on girly. girly trips, or we do lots of corporate stuff. So each year is my favourite year because more is coming, more of my dreams becoming a reality.
So I've got to say probably last year and let's hope this year is going to be my favourite game. Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about you because a few of the questions that I like to ask is actually going back towards people's history with wine and how you,
how you sort of, can you remember, for example, your first taste of English wine? Ooh, I would have thought it, I think it was Hamilton. Okay.
Yeah, yeah. And what did you think? How long ago? Does do a lovely wine. Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's a bit daunting as well,
all these big names when you. come into the industry. But I think ours holds its own, so I'm very pleased with it. But yeah, so,
yeah, I mean, all English Sparklings are amazing. And I think because there's been such improved investment now in the industry, it's just getting better and better.
And I would recommend any English one. wine you know it's it used to be a joke didn't there how many people does it take to drink an English wine two to hold them down and one to pour it down his throat and that's how I always start my tour but um and then explain how how well it's all progressed in the last sort of 10 20 years so yeah.
Do you think you had the idea in your head that it would be so successful when you started your ashram park estate? journey? Well, I think you always have to dream big,
don't you? and So, but I didn't realize how hard it would be So, but Yeah, I I've enjoyed it and still enjoy it So that's the main thing isn't it when you I do work most days well every day in the summer as well,
but you don't mind because you're growing, you're pulling the story across, you're meeting new people, and you might do a tour on a really quiet day,
you might do a tour for two people thinking, oh god that was a, you know, bit of hard work for an hour and a half, and then they come back and then they book a wedding here or or they bring their work colleagues back or they book a big celebration meal.
So you never know anyone you meet out there. You never know what they're going to go away and come back and do. For you, out of your wines, and I don't know if you'll be able to choose,
do you have a favorite? Do you know, it changes all the time as lots of wine over the years. but the rosé is lovely.
It's different from any other rosé. You're getting sort of the spiciness to it and there's a little bit of sort of red apple to it.
So it's not as you'll expect a rosé to be like. So that's the one, if I'm going to a party or something like that, that's the one I take,
have under my arm. (laughing) Invite you to more parties now, 'cause I'm sorry. (laughing) - And so,
what's next? I know you've said that you want to stand still for a little while and catch your breath, but is there anything, when it comes to the wines and producing wines that you don't want to drink? them.
So, you know, I just think it's you never know with this journey where it's next going to take you. That's that's the thing about it really,
isn't it? It is, it is. Well, Gail, thank you so much for your time. I think that's a lovely way to end the podcast. Good luck with standing still or not standing still.
I have a feeling you're not going to stand still for very long. But good luck with everything there. Let's hope for some more awards. The wines are fantastic. The experience is fantastic.
I can vouch for it myself and I would recommend that anyone goes down for a tour and then you'll want to stay there for lunch and dinner and stay there all weekend. So congratulations and thank you so much for coming on.
Oh well thank you for giving me the time and the platform. That was Gail Gardner, MD of Ashling Park Estate near Chichester and one of the pioneering forces which are shaping the future of wine tourism in England.
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the English Wine Diaries which is kindly sponsored by Wickham Wines. If you enjoyed it, I'd love it if you'd like, subscribe and leave a rating as it helps other people find us.
You can catch up with more English wine news over on my Instagram. just search for English Wine Diaries. And don't forget to tune in next week when I'll be back with Wine Educator and now Wine Maker,
Jimmy Smith. Until then, cheers!