Episode 66: Katie & Umut Yesil, Riverview Crouch Valley

Welcome back to Series 10 of The English wine Diaries. Joining me on the first episode of this series are Katie and Umut Yesil from Riverview Crouch Valley Vineyard in Essex. 

 Prior to planting their vineyard in the now famed Crouch Valley, the couple ran a food and drink PR business in London, but following a conversation around the kitchen table with Katie’s father Billy – a third generation arable farmer – they decided to focus their attention on English wine. 

 In 2017 they set about converting 11 acres of land on the family farm into a vineyard, planting the traditional Champagne varieties of Pinot Noir, Chardonnay and Pinot Meunier with a view to make sparkling wine. 

 However, when the grapes from their first harvest in 2020 came back with incredible sugar levels, they decided to produce single varietal still Chardonnay and Pinot Noir. These have already received rave reviews from wine critics and have been placed in fine dining restaurants across the UK.

We talk about English still versus sparkling wine, winning rave reviews for their wines and what might be the future for winekmaking in Essex's Crouch Valley.

Keep up to date with news from Katie and Umut by following @riverviewcrouchvalley and buy their wines at riverviewcrouchvalley.com.

With thanks to our series sponsor, Wickhams, The Great British Wine Merchant. Visit wickhamwine.co.uk to see their award-winning range of English wine with free delivery on orders over £40. The English Wine Diaries listeners can also get 10% discount on their first purchase by entering the code TEWD10. Please drink responsibly. 

Thanks for listening to The English Wine Diaries. If you enjoyed the podcast then please leave a rating or review, it helps boost our ratings and makes it easier for other people to find us. To find out who will be joining me next on the English Wine Diaries, follow @theenglishwinediaries on Instagram and for more regular English wine news and reviews, sign up to our newsletter at englishwinediaries.com.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to season 10 of the English Wine Diaries podcast, which I am launching quite aptly in English Wine Week. Hopefully,
if you've not yet been to visit an English vineyard, then this and upcoming episodes will convince you to. For those of you who don't know me, I'm your host Rebecca Pitcairn.
I'm a journalist and founder of the Southern Quarter, an online magazine all about English wine. This podcast is all about the people behind the industry and their incredible stories which I can't wait to share with you.
So join me as I sit down with sommeliers, vineyard owners, winemakers and some rather familiar faces too to discover how a love of wine, particularly that made on British oil has helped shape their lives and careers.
Welcome to the English Wine Diaries. The English Wine Diaries is kindly sponsored by Wickham's Wine Merchant. Alongside our world -leading sparklers,
England also produces some stunning steel wines. Yes, the great variety, location and winemaking matter, but Wickham's expertly Fertile Curated Selection and 100 % Satisfaction Guarantee is a great way to explore this burgeoning category.
Some of my favourites are Lion Bay's 2021 Chardonnay, Biddenland's 2022 Gamma and Hux Bear's 2022 Orange Bear, which is made from Chardonnay,
not oranges. Visit Wiccanwine .co .uk and get 10 % off using the code TEWD10. That's TEWD10.
Always remember to drink responsibly. Joining me on today's episode of the English Wine Diaries are Katie and Umet Yesil from Riverview Crouch Valley Vineyard in Essex.
Prior to planting their vineyard in the now -famed Crouch Valley, the couple ran a food and drink PR business in London. But following a conversation around the kitchen table with Katie's father Billy,
a third -generation arable farmer, they decided to focus their attention on English wine. In 2017, they set about converting 11 acres of land on the family farm into a vineyard,
planting the traditional champagne varieties of Pinot Chardonnay and Pinot Noir with a view to make sparkling wine. However, when the grapes from their first harvest in 2020 came back with incredible sugar levels they decided to produce single varietals still Chardonnay and Pinot Noir.
These have already received rave reviews from wine critics and have been placed in fine dining restaurants across the UK. Casey and Mert, thank you so much for joining me. How are you today?
Thank you Rebecca. We're very well. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having us. Yeah, very, very well. Very, very sunny day. And I assume that it's probably sunny where you are in Essex than it is anywhere else in England,
because that is what Essex is now sort of famed for, isn't it? Yes, it is. Yeah, I think we have like the most sunshine days in the country. So we've got those big Crouch Valley skies here.
It's lovely. It's really, really nice. When I was working on the tractor last year and had the radio on the background, every advert was South End, driest, warmest place in the UK.
Every fight, so I definitely remember that. So, of course, and that's one thing that helps fantastically with growing vines, particularly here in cool climate England.
Did you know when you had that conversation around the table with your family the vineyard. Were you sort of aware that Essex was or would become such a sort of hot spot for English wine and particularly still English wine?
Well at that time there was only a couple of vineyards in Essex, nowhere near as many as there are now, especially in the Crouch Valley, and a lot of it was focused on sparkling wine production as was a lot of English wine in general.
And now, just in the recent years, the past couple of years, really, I think the 2020 vintage in particular for people was very, very good. And there were some fantastic still wines that came from that.
And so I think it really only is in the past few years, especially with still wine. That's definitely how it feels for us. We were here during the first harvest.
And yeah, we never knew at the time what we were sat on or how important it had become, especially in our lives. So yeah, when we first planted, there was no indication that Essex would be the hotspot.
It was always, you know, we'd always thought old Sussex and Kent were the best places to grow vines. - Because of the sparking. - Because of the sparking and it just feels like, for us anyway, it just feels like it flipped a switch.
And then, you know, I've been working with my vineyard manager planting new vineyards over the past few weeks and it's crazy what's happening. It's anywhere where you can put a bit of vines,
people are putting vines now. Because it has, it's kind of, I don't know if there's like over 20 now, isn't there, in the Crouch Valley? Yeah, it keeps growing as well and there's a lot more people as well now concentrating on creating a brand rather than becoming sort of grape times.
So yeah, it's been a huge shift and everyone's interested and it's a great time to be a part of it. And a lot of people also from outside the area now vying for those grapes because they realise that they're so special.
Do you sell any of your grapes on? Yeah, so we sell our grapes. We worked quite closely up until now and going forward with Lime Bay. So they were the only winery that we've ever sold grapes to.
And Mummy always worked quite closely with them. - Yeah, we've had Sarah on the podcast and she did say, I don't think she mentioned sort of specific vineyards, but she said that they do work almost exclusively with vineyards in Essex to make their wine,
and their wine's fabulous too. So can I go back to that conversation that you had round the table with your family? What was it that sort of instigated that? - Well,
it was almost actually. He said he'd always had an interest in wine. When I first met him, he actually said his dream was to run a wine bar one day.
He just loved the idea of it. His family has been in hospitality for many, many years. And he's always loved that idea. And then he did his dissertation in wine as well about wine pricing strategies,
which is coming quite handy later later down the line, who'd have thought. But he said, has your, has your dad ever thought about planting vines?
Because, you know, there's a couple in Essex and seeing more and more English wine in the country now stuck on menus, London, for instance. And so I asked him and I said,
dad, have you thought about it? And he said, actually, he said, for the past year, I've been thinking about it, but I didn't want to say anything. So I thought you'd all say I was crazy. And that's enough,
not on to the next thing sort of thing. And we said, Oh, my goodness, well, but let's let's explore this. And he knows Chris down at Newhall.
So we went down there. And they introduced they took us round Lucy was great there. She showed us round the place. And we got introduced to Duncan McNeill who's our vineyard manager right now and he is Mr Crouch Valley really,
Mr Essex vineyards and it all kind of went from there really introduced us to James at Lion Bay and James Lambert and yeah the relationship just went from strength to strength And I think it was a combination of the right location,
being where our vineyard is, right by the River Crouch, careful tending to the land from my dad's and his dad before then. And then surrounding yourself with the right people as well,
and just be willing to learn. - Yeah, yeah. - And did you talk us through that sort of process then? So for people that perhaps might maybe be thinking about doing a similar thing,
they might have some land. How sort of easy is it to kind of embark on that journey of planting your own vineyard? For us,
it was because we were so excited about it the whole time, it was it was a passion project. So yeah, I would say the first step would be to get someone in like Duncan.
Yeah, you need to have the right idea for that to see is it possible? Where's the best place for it? Because it could be the case of no, this is not sensible to find, so it could be, oh my goodness,
you've got south -western slopes, you've got to be protected from the frost here, all these things that you can tick boxes for. And then I think, like I said, like just a willingness to learn, especially if you are in arable farming,
it is very, very different how you manage the crops. And then especially if you have a product at the end, that's very different. Whereas in farming, you know, you've got this harvest time,
but then you don't see the end result. But with wine, you see that bottle at the end, whether it's you that's made it into a brand or whether it's, you know,
as you've sold your grapes to the winery and they've sent you your lovely bottle of wine. Yeah, yeah. But for us, I think it was quite an easy decision. In regards to we knew from the start,
having done KTRPR, working with brands or startups, and we knew we wanted to be a part of that side of it. We wanted to be on the side that had the product and was proud and passionate about what you were selling.
And so when we did plant the idea was always we're going to make a brand and we're going to do it to the best of our ability and we've just been really lucky in regards to how good the Greeks have been,
how great the land is and so now we've just taken the extra steps to take care of the land that as it should be and you know yeah we're really really looking forward to what the future brings us but there's opportunities to plant more we're kind of holding back for the time being because We don't want to go all in and then go,
"Oh, we're not happy with what we're doing anymore. We want to build a brand first and go, "Okay, this is something that works, so let's go all in now." - So of course, you've been making some fantastic still wines and they've had some incredible reviews.
We will talk about those in a moment, but was the initial idea, it was to make sparkling wine, was it? - Yes, yeah, it was. So we went with Pinot Noir,
Chardonnay, Pinot Manio to make traditional method English sparkling wine because at the time, still wine was sort of few and far between, we hadn't really thought about it.
We love English sparkling wine and we thought, well, yeah, this is what we want our brand to be and what products we want to create. And then when harvest came and the grapes,
Oshla Levels, Sugar Levels, Rapist Levels came back. I think Duncan and James said it would be a crime to put this in a sparkling because what you could make from these with a still and we were able to actually make a single virus also.
It's the grapes that only from our vineyard, no blends either because we wanted the grapes to, hearing they were so good, we really wanted them to do the talking and that's been our kind of strategy throughout.
You know, just let the grapes do the talking really and we're not lending them, that's what we're choosing to do. - And for yourselves, you said that you liked English sparkling wine and well,
you loved it. What had been your experiences of, like what sort of sparkling wine did you tried? Some of the big ones, like Chappardown, and it was because we lived in London until recently and it was years ago,
we'd go into restaurants and I remember there'd actually be a section on the wine lists just for that English wine, just a small bit and it was at the top. I think it was maybe it was that roasting bar market. I remember they were doing like a special for English wine promoting it and I thought,
wow, like, that's absolutely amazing. The IV as well, they were doing it. And you just think, God, like, people are actually wanting to drink English wines.
This is incredible. And after we thought, yeah, we want to be on some of these menus. And had you tried many still wines, English wines before? To be honest,
not really. Hard visits. Yeah, New Holland Denby's were the ones we tried it up until that point. Yeah, we hadn't really... That's why the idea was never to make a story because we didn't think it would be possible in the way we wanted it to.
We always started it with the intention of it all being premium. We didn't want anything. We wanted it to all be premium and go on towards making the best one we could possibly make.
And we sort of had a discussion If they're not if the right miss levels aren't going to be as high as they can be We thought well we could pivot and my idea was to make a canned wine Okay,
because you don't need it as much then and Katie hated the idea There's a space for it, but I think when the grapes are as good as yeah, they are with ours and I Just think it's it kind of it's just kind of we've just suited us,
hasn't it? To go down the premium route and it's all kind of aligned quite nicely, really. And having back the wine critics rave about the wine as well was a huge moment,
wasn't it, when we first debuted the wine at Y and GB? It was like the moment of truth for us. People like it more than we like it. So that must mean we're on to something special here.
Because you never know when you see someone and then they come up and they taste the wine and then you're watching them and you're thinking, what are they going to say, this is our first trade show, don't really know what we're doing, we're just going for it.
And yeah, it was just an incredible moment. It's funny because I think that's where I came across you guys because I think we met there, didn't we? Yes. And I remember you sort of saying,
you know, well, this is our first time, you know, And, you know, I mean, that was a couple of years ago now. Is that two years ago? - That was 21, yeah. - Yeah. - 22. - 22. - It was 22.
- 23, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So nearly. - 21, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - So, and you had a really good reception there. So let's talk through what some people sort of said, 'cause you've had some really good reviews,
haven't you? - Yeah. - Yeah, so we had Matthew Dukes. He's a big fan of our wines. - 21's. - Of of our 21 he loved the 2020 and then we actually sold out that really quickly and then so the 21s he particularly liked and he chose our 21 Chardonnay as part of his he did a masterclass at the vineyard magazine show and he chose six wines and it was the theme we'll start a main and dessert or cheese or I think working
cheese at the end. Anyway, he did and it was his recommendations that he said that every sommelier should have on their list these wines because they will, you know, pair really nicely with everything and we were one of those wines and we just couldn't believe it,
could we? And hearing him talk about the wine, it was just like, I don't know, a bit of a star -struck moment. I bet. And what a recommendation and that has kind of led to you being now on,
your wine's being on some some fine dining list, hasn't it? Yes, yes, we're in a place in Wales. Yeah, in Pembrokeshire called Annwyne. Yes,
and I'd say Michelin, Green Star restaurant. They're doing some incredible things. They have about 10 seats in their restaurant, everything's like local. It's all foraged,
everything's land to play, love for as it can be. It's very, very, very interesting what they're doing and they've got our Chardonnay and Pinot Noir on the menu,
21. Galvin Greenman. Galvin Greenman in Chumpsford here and they've got our 21 Chardonnay and Pinot Salford Hall.
It's a hotel up in the Cotswolds. Beautiful hotel. But other than that, we're sort of dotted around lots of boutique wine shops and the wine society. And if the stuff that's more bigger than sort of boutique wine shops,
it's really wine society there. So it's gone really well. So you're on, I didn't realise that actually. So you're and with the Wine Society.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yes, yeah. - Fantastic. - So we had our 2020 and our 21 there. So, our Shardner, yeah. - Again, we met Matthew at Wine GB. - Matthew Horsley.
- Yeah, Matthew Horsley. He fell in love with the wine and-- - It was well worth going to that show then, and he's like, "Wasn't it?" (laughing) - Oh, it did do a lot for us. And it did a lot for us in terms of how we felt about it,
because As I said, when you all of a sudden have people come in to say, "We have people from the other end of the room go, someone from there told me I have to come and try your wine," and we were both sat there thinking,
"Well, I want to know who that person is, because now I want to go say thank you to them." But it was happening all day long, and it was a lovely, lovely moment for us.
- It must have been a real boost in confidence as well, because it must be really nerve wracking mustn't it putting yourselves out there. Yeah, yeah. And I it was it was an amazing moment. It gave us a lot of confidence. And then, yeah,
just push us to say, so we went from a production level of around 950 bottles in the first year. And we did 1600 next year. And then in 2020,
the 22 harvest, we produced around 5000. And we're doing the same sort of going forward in terms of the variety. So we'll do it with a split. So we're doing about 1700 Chardonnay,
1700 Pinot Noir, and the rest of it will be a 100 % spark in Monnier, which is yet to be released. And then in sort of the 22, we've upped it again. So we've got about five to six pounds and split between varieties as well.
So has that changed as well? Because initially, I presumably you would have made a sparkling with the three were you thinking of doing a blend, but now you've decided to release, so that will be your first sparkling with it,
but it'll be 100 % Penomania. Yeah, because again, we want to keep that theme sort of going. We're just kind of trying it out really, saying our Penomania,
because we feel a bit sorry for Penomania, because it just kind of gets trapped in the blend of English sparkling, and I think more people now are actually doing, they're from it, Rose is white.
Which we're doing as well. And we are doing a still Rose, my Pinot Mernier. Last year's harvest. 2023 harvest. So that'll be out in a couple of years. Fantastic. But it's funny because we have like the Pinot Noir Chardonnay,
which is like super traditional, and then our Pinot Mernier is like our little experiment. And that one maker, Sarah, loves Pinot Mernier. So it's actually a great chance for everyone to have a to try out things.
I have to say I love Pinamonia too and I think it is starting to have a little bit of a moment. As you say there's lots of people starting to experiment with it now and doing sort of single variety wines from it so I'll be really excited to try both the sparkling and the rose that you make from that when that happens.
Can you talk me through what it felt like when you first tried your first wine that - How did you sort of feel? - I remember, I remember we were in the-- - It was in this room.
- In this room, yeah. And it was a wow moment. - 'Cause I don't want to sound a bit ignorant, but like, there's still violence. We had, I was more of like a red drinker and or sparkling or like a rose.
Why it wasn't really my go -to, especially not really a Chardonnay. We've actually got from so many people that, oh, I don't like Chardonnay because they imagine it to be this big oak bomb. And then we tried this and it was like,
wow, now that is, that's a wine. It was elegant, smooth, fresh, but then there's those tropical notes and a hint of oak. It was,
it was that moment, we, because James had come from Lime Bay and he said, oh, we need, we're going to try the wine altogether. And he said, I think you're going gonna be happy. And it was just a moment we all looked at each other and it was like,
whoa, this is this is something special here. Yeah, something special. Who was there? Who was around the table when you were having this? So it was us, my mum and dad,
and James Lambert. And I think, I think Sarah was here and I can't remember his name. There was someone else from line by there, but I'm not I can't remember his name at at the moment.
No, he's not. But yeah, there was a few of the Lion Bay team. And Paul Sullivan. And Paul Sullivan, yes, who was at Lion Bay. It was just a great moment.
There's a great afternoon trying the wine. Yeah, it was so unexpected when we finally tried it. That unmarked bottle. Yeah, they left us till last. And then,
yeah, we tried it and we were we thought wow, you know, just it's five minutes down the road to us from here and I think I think your dad as well he was because he's found that land his whole life and it's always been we or beings.
He sat there and he had a sip and he just couldn't believe that something that he'd been doing his whole life had now become a product that was sat on the table and that we were going to do something with it and I think he was very proud of that.
And my mum Yeah. Yeah. And again, not really white wine drinkers. Yeah. But love the, love the 21. English white has changed our mind on white wine. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, let's talk about the red then. Let's talk about the Pinot Noir. Obviously, you decided to make the Chardonnay. Was it at the time was it, was there, was it decided that you'd make the Pinot Noir at that point as well?
Or did that come later? That came later. Yeah. So we decided just to do Chardonnay to start with, because we were quite, you know, from pivoting the whole idea of our business to we're doing a traditional methods sparkling to now a still we were like,
okay, one thing at a time. Let's test it, let's see what happens. Actually, we should have done the meetup because it was a great year. If you've tried the Land Bay 2020 Pinot Noir, it was absolutely incredible.
But then we tried our one. And it was so elegant. So lovely. And just a really great expression of,
I don't know if the crouched value really isn't it? Because 21 wasn't the best year for a lot of vineyards. But the fact that we could still produce that and we've had that comment from a lot of people.
You know, you're really onto something. If you can produce that one in that year. So it was lovely and we've tried our 2022 Pinot Noir. That's a bit different,
it's a little bit darker and it's just incredible. We are very, very excited to release that for that. And when does that get, when are you releasing that one? The plan is to release it in September.
So we want to, we want to get it bottled and then leave it in bottle for a and then bring it out when it's ready. You know, we're not in any rush for anything, but we want everything to be timed to perfection.
And that's what we're striving for. Yeah, but we are excited about that. My question is, do you have a favourite? Can you choose between? Well, firstly, the Chardonnay or Pinot Ar,
red or white? And secondly, of the of the Vintage's? For me, it's the 21 Chardonnay. It's just so light, easy to drink.
It's that wine that you could, you could drink it with food, it's really lovely, but you could just have glasses and glasses of it with like friends and it's just a family. It's just that sort of wine.
It's really, really lovely. And I now actually prefer whites over reds, but only enough. What do you think of But for me, I mean,
my favorite grape is a Pinot Noir or a Nebbiola or a San Gervaisi. So for me, I've been able to produce that kind of wine, RPR21 Pinot,
that's reminiscent of everything that I love. Yeah, it's fantastic to me. I love our Pinot and the 22 is even better and that, yeah, for me, we have to be careful a little bit because there is a risk that we end up drinking it all so we sort of have to put it away to one side and forget about it.
You have to try and just bring it out special occasions but then you've had you've had a few special occasions recently have you? Every time I speak to you it's Katie's birthday then it's birthday. My birthdays are closed so yeah we managed to get a company with nice celebrations out of it.
Yeah definitely. We had it over Christmas as well. - Yeah, and when we moved into our house, our friends came around and we did like a wine tasting didn't we, it was, yeah, it's a special occasion one,
but as we increase production a bit more, we'll feel a little bit less guilty about drinking from our plants. - So what is the plan for you guys? 'Cause obviously people can get the wine in certain,
well, wine society, certain independent places and on, if they go to certain restaurants, but you don't so much have a cellar door or anything? Not yet, no. So the whole thing is one day that we will plant some more vines somewhere that's more suitable for hospitality and having a cellar door and a winery,
fingers crossed, we can get to that point. But that is, we're talking a long, long time away. So for the time being, we're just trying to build our brand and we see our wine being in sort of high -end fine dining restaurants and wine shops,
we, yeah, we haven't really thought about a lot of people want to sell their wine themselves to maximize profit, whereas we want to sell our wine into places that we see match our brand or match our reforce,
even if it comes at a lower cost, it gets your wine out there, more people get to see it more and more people get to enjoy it that way. Hmm, definitely. Can you see yourself sort of collaborating with any other kind of like premium brands we actually had a conversation this might not be a premium brand but we had a conversation we met someone on holiday who was the head of marketing at at Primark no it's not
premium but we said which we we we came up with the idea why don't you do your summer shoot our vineyards yeah stuff like that yeah not the one not the one yourself That would be a first.
Well, that would definitely get you some PR. I know that would get you PR, whether it's the right kind of PR, I'm not sure. Yeah, exactly. I don't know. We try and we appreciate where everyone's doing around us,
but I think when you've got your own brand, you have to kind of not be too distracted with what others doing and just keep focused on what the goal that you've gotten. And so, I think we haven't really thought about collaborating with someone in a way in that way.
Apart from, you know, all the wineries and producers in the Crouch Valley, it's a really nice kind of atmosphere, isn't it? Everyone, you know, there's vineyards that they want to help each other.
And we've all got the same goal, you know, if we can become the place for still wine in this country, you know, we will still stick together. And yeah, we need to work together on that. Yeah.
There's a lot of discussions actually, because I live in Sussex and there's a lot of discussions here about sort of tourism and the fact that you know now there are so many vineyards and wineries in Sussex that's something that can really you know put England on or Sussex in England and the southeast on the map for sort of that sort of thing and for people to holiday here.
Do you sort of see that happening in the Crouch Valley in the future? Oh definitely. I even spoke to a few of the vineyard owners and I said We should get like because we're on the river. We're right on the river and a lot of the other ones are quite close to it as well So it'd be great if we had someone who was sort of on a boat and did boat tours I'd put you to different vineyards up and down and you know,
you could try the wine washer on the boat on a lovely sunny day like today I think I think if Maybe we won't be the ones to do it But I think that stuff if something like that came up,
I think it'd be fantastic Yeah, well, I'd definitely be booking a ticket. That sounds like my kind of day out, definitely. - It'd be really nice for vineyards as well. Like for ourselves, we don't have hospitality set up.
We, you know, bring people that we know or the business to the vineyard, but a little boat thing would be quite good. You could just hop off, have a little walk around, get back on. - And there are vineyards on the other side do hospitality such as Crouch Ridge who could benefit from that and Clay Hill.
So there is a lot going on. But yeah, we, we haven't really gone into the hospitality part of it yet. No. But it could be something that you do in the future.
Oh, definitely. Yeah. I think it's nice as well. I think one thing that's really good about what I do through the podcast, even if people don't have sort of vinyas that you can visit, such as meeting the people behind it.
And that's kind of the whole point of this podcast. And I think that's an element that you probably got as well from when you were going to the show and showing off your wine, seeing people's faces when they're drinking it. Because it must be something you kind of,
you kind of miss that a little bit, don't you, if you're not doing tastings and things and seeing people. So I've got a few questions now. I sort of call them my kind of quickfire questions, although they don't tend to actually end up being that quick because people often have long answers.
Do you have a sort of favorite wine memory? It doesn't have to be English wine it could be from anywhere but yeah. I'd say one of my favourites was going to it is an English wine and we're going to Denby's we went with some family friends and our family and it was a really really lovely day there and it's such a beautiful setup and we had an amazing lunch there and it was just it felt like we were like in the
south of France. That was really special and then we always say as well Lisbon and Porto we've been there a couple of times and they're wine there the Vienna Verde drinking that with drinking that with some freshly grilled fish.
Oh my goodness, it really doesn't, I'm watching people just go by and sat at like a little bar somewhere and it really doesn't get better. That would definitely be my one. But when we was in Porto,
we went to a seaside town called Matizinos and the whole street is just full of restaurants that barbecue fish that they've just caught. And I'm not a fan of,
I'm not a seafood person. I'm completely against it. But that day changed my whole life. I ate a lot of fish that day. So, and you know, it's amazing. You can sit there and it's all well -priced and we had a bottle of vino verde for like seven euros.
And the fish itself was only about 50. It was like a kilogram. It was amazing. That is, I could have sat there all day. That's the thing, you don't get so much of with English wine, is it? The prices are obviously... No, it's not unfortunate, yeah,
yeah. They're not the same prices. That's a lovely memory, and whenever we go back there, we're like, right, let's get to that bar that we love, and let's get a bottle of Vino Verde to sit there and enjoy.
And actually, I suppose, really recently in Sicily, when we were out there last week, that was an experience, we went to a winery called Gambino winery and they are at the base of Mount Etna and that was something so different because the vines are actually like stepped down and drinking the wine there was just amazing wasn't it lovely tasting experience so much food oh my goodness it was just really incredible that
you're literally on a volcano drinking wine. There's that real sense of place, I think, isn't there when you drink a wine, particularly if you're doing it in the place that it actually has been made.
It's like you can kind of take, you know, all your senses are kind of going and it's a really special. Wine is definitely, it's definitely something to do with sensory wine. When you drink it, where you drink it,
it changes your whole perception of what you're drinking. That's what I find. Definitely. Absolutely. Do you think you'd ever sort of curveball it and do something like an orange wine or something like that.
- I've told you. - Not for the time being, I don't think. The way I see it is, I'm not sure about Katie, but the way I see it is, if I'm not a fan of drinking it,
I wouldn't want to put my heart into it. So I wouldn't, yeah, it's not something I would foresee myself doing anytime soon. But you never know, I might try one that blows me over and that's how it seems to work.
We tried one thing we got that was incredible. Let's see if we can give it a go. What about food and wine? You obviously spoke about the seafood there that you had in Portugal. What are your favourite food and wine combos and what's your favourite thing to eat with your own wines?
I say yeah like white wine and barbecue fish. So good. our 21 Chardonnay with any kind of light fish, I'd say, or even like a light pasta,
really, really nice. And also wine and cheese. Yeah. You just can't go wrong with wine and cheese. And rose and seafood as well. Oh yeah. Rose and seafood is like, oh, so, so good.
But yeah, I think. And with our Pinot Noir, I'd say like a really nice like lamb perhaps. We've been actually with our 21 p .m. or something even that roast chicken. - Yeah.
- Because it's so light and elegant, it all just works. It just works with it. - Now I always ask everybody at the end of the podcast, if there's one wine that they couldn't live without,
it's kind of like a desert island, kind of desert island, island disc wine thing. Yeah, if there's any wine that you couldn't live without, what would it and why you're possibly going to say your own wine,
but for me, I'm not very sure on brands, but for me a Barolo, any good Barolo, for me, I could just drink all day long.
It goes with everything for me. I love the oakeness of it. You can do almost taste how much sunlight is taken in. That for me is, yeah, if that didn't exist, I'd be quite Lovely,
I'd say. Lovely. For me, I don't know if you're allowed to self -nominate, but I really love our 21 Chardonnay, it is. So lovely, it's so good. So easy to drink.
And also, again, sometimes like an Italian red, it's really lovely. If you want something completely opposite to something light and white.
And what for you guys. Do you think you mentioned about planting more grapes and eventually having a winery somewhere and everything. Do you think you'll plant different grape varieties or are you going to sort of concentrate on what you've already started?
What's your thoughts? Yeah, so what I've seen plant in vineyards, I wouldn't last sort of a few weeks in Sauvignon Blanc. I think there is a big rise in Sauvignon Blanc being planted in Essex where we are not sure about the rest of the the country.
But down in the south, I think I've seen in Kent as well, we like with Sauvignon more than a Bacchus. And I'm not a fan of Bacchus to be fair. So Sauvignon Blanc could be the other great variety that I would want to plant.
But then again, stick to, you know, no one shot now. Yeah. And there's albino as well that's being planted there. It's amazing. It's a Balfour. Yeah,
Balfour. I think Chapel Down have done one as well, a few years back, but Balfour have done one recently. So the world is your oyster. Yeah, definitely. Oh, that is exciting. This whole industry is exciting at the moment.
It's every day something new is popping up and you try something that just blows you away and you think, how have they produced them? It is a very, very good time to be a part of this. I think we're at the,
I would want to say we're at the start of something because people have people have been doing it for forever now. And it's, you know, there's people such as Nightenburg, Ridgeview, Chapel Down,
they've been at the forefront of it for a long time. So for me to say that it's not right, but for us, it definitely seems like we're at the start of something special and English wine is just increasing with popularity every year.
- And there's industry wise as well. There's a lot of more young people in the English wine industry, which is really great, seeing some, you know, amazing wine makers. And it's,
it's really nice. And a lot of women actually in the English wine industry now that's on the app, which is really good. I think people think, Oh, English wine, is it like a bit kind of stuffy?
No, it's not. It's vibrant. It's energetic. It's exciting. Definitely. Yeah. I'm not sure if we fall into that anymore. I'm definitely not there then.
I've been and gone. I'm back out the other end. Well, you're definitely at the start of something for you guys journey wise, very exciting. And I think if the last two years,
a couple of years or three years are anything to go by, you're going to have an amazing time over the next years to come. So, I wish you all the best with everything. Thank you so much for joining me and talking me through your English wine diaries.
And we'll have to have you back on again in a few months time or years time and we can talk about more of the wines that you've been producing. Thank you for having us Rebecca. And if you wanted to, I wanted to do some of the video at some point when harvest time comes,
we'd love to have you at the vineyard. We love having an extra hand of harvest. Oh, I love a good harvest. I love it. Oh, I'm there. Put me in. I'm coming down.
That was Katie and Umet from Riverview Crouch Valley, who have been receiving rave reviews for their wines. The Chardonnay was recently recommended on Saturday Kitchen by a previous guest on this podcast,
Ollie Smith. Well done, guys. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the English Wine Diaries, which is kindly sponsored by Wickham Wines. If you've enjoyed listening to this episode or others,
I'd so love it if you'd like, subscribe and leave a rating as it helps other people find us. You can catch up with more English Wine News over on my Instagram @TheEnglishWineDiaries.
I'll be back next week with winemaker Charlie Holland. Until then, cheers!