Episode 68 - Will Perkins, winemaker Louis Pommery England

Joining me on today’s episode of The English Wine Diaries is Will Perkins, winemaker for Louis Pommery England, the English project under the Vranken-Pommery portfolio, which has planted 35-hectares of vines on the Pinglestone Estate in Hampshire. 

Having grown up in Hampshire, just outside Winchester, Will has fond memories of formative years in the county and it was here that his first work in wine began – helping out at Hattingley Valley vineyard during his school holidays. 

Travelling to South Africa to study History, Politics and Spanish at university in Cape Town, a career in English viticulture wasn’t hugely on his radar. But when he returned to England, a harvest cellar hand position at Hattingly presented itself. Soon Will had embarked on a degree in Viticulture and was promoted to Assistant Winemaker at Hattingley. 

After five years, an unrelenting quest to explore, experiment and experience further afield saw him leave his home county once again and spend time working on pioneering projects across the globe, from California to Central Otago and from the Adelaide Hills to the Yarra Valley.

Now with his feet firmly back on home soil, Will describes joining Pinglestone Estate in 2022 as an opportunity to ‘reconnect with the land and community that runs through his being.”

You can keep up to date with developments at Pinglestone Estate by following @louispommeryengland on Instagram.

With thanks to our series sponsor, Wickhams, The Great British Wine Merchant. Visit wickhamwine.co.uk to see their award-winning range of English wine with free delivery on orders over £40. The English Wine Diaries listeners can also get 10% discount on their first purchase by entering the code TEWD10. Please drink responsibly.

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Transcript

Hello and welcome to season 10 of the English Wine Diaries podcast, which I am launching quite aptly in English Wine Week. Hopefully if you've not yet been to visit an English vineyard,
then this and upcoming episodes will convince you to. For those of you who don't know me, I'm your host Rebecca Pitcairn. I'm a journalist and founder of the Southern Quarter,
an online magazine all about English wine. This podcast is all about the people behind the industry and their incredible stories which I can't wait to share with you.
So join me as I sit down with sommeliers, vineyard owners, winemakers and some rather familiar faces too to discover how a love of wine, particularly that made on British oil has helped shape their lives and careers.
Welcome to the English Wine Diaries. The English Wine Diaries is kindly sponsored by Wickham's Wine Merchant. Alongside our world -beating sparklers,
England also produces some stunning still wines. Yes, the great variety, location and winemaking matter, but Wickham's strictly curated selection and 100 % satisfaction guarantee is a great way to explore this burgeoning category.
Some of my favourites are Lime Bay's 2021 Chardonnay, Biddenlands' 2022 Gemma and Hux Bay's 2022 Orange Bear, which is made from Chardonnay,
not oranges. Visit Wiccanwine .co .uk and get 10 % off using the code T -E -W -D -10. That's T -E -W -D -10.
Always remember to drink responsibly. Joining me on today's episode of the English Wine Diaries is Will Perkins,
winemaker for Louis Pomeray England, the English project under the Vrankan Pomeray folio, which has planted 35 hectares of vines on the Pingelstone estate in Hampshire.
Having grown up in Hampshire, just outside Winchester, Will has fond memories of formative years in the county, and it was here that his first work in wine began, helping out at Hattingley Valley Vineyard during his school holidays.
Travelling to South Africa to study history, politics and Spanish at university in Cape Town, a career in English theatre viticulture wasn't hugely on his radar, but when he returned to England,
a harvest cellar hand position at Hattingly presented itself. Soon, Will had embarked on a degree in viticulture and was promoted to assistant winemaker. After five years,
an unrelenting quest to explore, experiment and experience further afield saw him leave his home county once again and spend time working on pioneering projects across the globe, from California to Central Otago,
and from the Adelaide Hills to the Yarra Valley. Now, with his feet firmly back on home soil, Will describes joining Pingelstone Estate in 2022 as an opportunity to reconnect with the land and community that runs through my being.
Well, thank you so much for joining me today. Hope that was all present and correct. - It was indeed. Afternoon, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's lovely to hear that. I read back. I knew everything was on point.
Good, good, good. Well, I want to go back, actually, to those formative years in Hampshire. What was it like growing up in the county? What were your memories of your surroundings? So I was based in Hampshire from day dot through to 18,
not from an agricultural, viticultural ground in any way, shape or form. So there wasn't that thread that I was exposed to necessarily from a sort of family vocation perspective.
But growing up out in the sticks, you were always surrounded by agriculture. It was a childhood of sort of immersion in the outdoors and in nature.
And yeah, some wonderful childhood friends and friendships that are still very, very present here now. So to have grown up here and then had various forays overseas to be back on what I term home soil is super special.
- And were you aware back then when you were growing up of the sort of vines and things that were popping up, were you aware of English wine and how it was sort of growing? Not particularly,
I'm 34 now. So rolling back 16 years ago, which is largely when my entry into the exposure to the world of wine started.
I think the UK industry is probably in motion, but I wouldn't say with a huge amount of cadence or traction. And Growing up as a kid,
it might be slightly different now, but growing up as a kid and it's only going back 16 years I'm sure folks that you might have spoken to who are the Generation older than I am it completely different story again,
but even going back 15 16 years that the concept or the prospect of going into the world of viticulture or wine making or all wine Was never really on my radar.
And it might be a similar thread to to many people who are of my sort of age that you've spoken to or or due to speak to that probably feel a similar thing. It was never certainly,
well, for me, anyway, it was never on my radar was never going through school. Was it posed as a possible career path? And it was largely by happenstance that I did fall into it,
really, and that is a pathway that I've not deviated from over the last 16 years, and I can't see myself doing it in time soon either.
I was super fortunate to largely be sort of right place, right time, both geographically, but also with where the industry was at.
and I was offered an opportunity where at that stage it was just I was working on a farm as a sort of summer casual and that very family then looked to do a bit of farm diversification which coincided with me being 17 or 18 at that time and they were looking to plant in the spring holidays when I was back from school.
And so an opportunity presents itself literally just to earn some pocket money. And that thread of connection with that particular farm then became far more longstanding in that it was the nascent stages of Passingley Valley.
And I was super fortunate at that stage to get an experience of the planting of vineyard that I thought it was and that's all said in hindsight and I never thought it was a career path or something that that stage really interested me.
However, I was again in hindsight super fortunate to work with an incredibly sort of energetically palpable vineyard manager at that point in James Bowman.
And I look back and there was a seed sown in me, but it only sort of physically and metaphorically took root probably seven years later.
Okay. What were your thoughts at that time? Obviously, this was just a summer job for you. You were going and sort of helping out and you know, these opportunities to plant these vines, you didn't really think much of it at the time. What were your thoughts then about what you might want to do when you when you grew up?
So at that point I was 18 and I was about to head out to Cape Town to go to university and study history politics and Spanish and I was largely drawn towards the humanitarian side of work really at that point.
And even during my degree, I, whenever I was on some whole days or back from Cape Town to the UK, I was working the vineyard. But again, never thinking it was, it was more to line my pockets with a bit of sterling to go back to South Africa with.
And after graduating, I, I joined my brother on a long cycle trip from London back to Cape Town, not that I did the whole thing, but I joined him on that.
And I ended up back in Cape Town at that point and did go into the humanitarian line of things. So I was largely following what I thought I wanted to go down,
and I was working with a refugee organisation out there, which still forms a very prominent thread of what's of my sort of fabric. And it didn't,
it didn't materialize in the way it probably is a naive 21 year old at that point that I thought it would do. I thought it'd be slightly more out in the field and in a hands -on capacity.
And it wasn't that. But I had a return five months later, and I wanted to pick up a skill. So I decided to enroll in a whole host of wine tasting courses with the Cape Wine Academy whilst I was out there and started working in a tasting room at a remarkable estate called Constantia Glen and all through my university years and then through that current chapter I was surrounded by the Cape Wine lands and it was just
a magical place to be and that largely ignited something that had already been setting me years and years back but it was it was then in having made a conscious decision that I wanted to pick up a skill and sort of dialed into what it was that interests me that my or a with some determination or with with some direction into the world of wine really started.
I mean it's an interesting journey as well even for just teenage are not working in one or having anything to do with wine anyway because you know lots of people go to university in the UK and have that experience but you actually went to not only did you go all the way over to Cape Town but that is also one of you know arguably the greatest wine regions of the world so that kind of synergy there it is quite
almost it's a bit strange always you could think it was almost this path that you were meant to be on. - Yeah, I guess in some ways, we were always encouraged by our parents to go and explore and if there was something we wanted to follow up,
to pursue, we were wholeheartedly supported, certainly from an emotional and an energetic perspective, to go and do that and to go and find out what that experience was,
whether it worked out or didn't, go and embrace the experience. So that was largely set in me or instilled in me from a young age and the opportunity to go and have an experience of university overseas was hugely exciting and really captivating as a prospect.
And South Africa as a country has an incredibly prominent thread within my being now. And I have very,
very close ties out there and I've been super fortunate to go and work there on two subsequent chapters as well. But I guess there's always been a thirst and a curiosity to go and explore the globe.
And I think winemaking or culture when I probably looked at it was a career path that seemed to engender all of that I could travel the globe I could pick up a skill I could go see some amazing places and one of the beauties about the wine industry that I found out pretty quickly that is that there are some amazing people within it and there's this massive gravity and magnetism between people but also there's a
magnetism of particular people to the industry. And I absolutely love that. I look back and that's certainly a number of the threads that made this industry so,
so exciting. And I think as a mid 20 year old, it just takes so many boxes. And it still does to such a large extent now.
And the beauty I find of the world of wine, certainly from the production or the growing side of things is that you can largely spin a globe and put a pin in the map and as long as the visas are within reach,
go and find out what's that light because there's always something to be gleaned from an overseas harvest experience. And I find so many of those interactions and different philosophical approaches interwoven into how I now interface with this current project,
but also my whole outlook towards the world of wine. And that rolling back is largely instilled by a sort of an curiosity to to go and experience.
Well let's talk about some of those experiences because you have travelled sort of across the world and experience harvest and wine making in lots of different countries. Is there anywhere in particular,
obviously you've spoken about your your love of South Africa, but is there anywhere else in particular that you felt you really perhaps learnt the most? They all hold such a special place for their own in their own individual right and before I sort of dial into where I've been and the importance I think it's it's important for me to to give respect to Hassley Valley because when I when I when I did join them there
was such a I was afford an incredible opportunity and it largely has been the platform that's allowed me to springboard onto what I currently find myself doing and where I've been so fortunate to be able to go and experience and they contributed and they put me through a viticulture and ornology degree which was just incredible.
I have had five amazing, amazing years there and a number of the people that I was fortunate to work with during that five year tenure as assistant winemaker.
That's some of my closest mates now and I'm in such wonderful friendships through that experience. And Simon Robinson, the owner of Fatsby Valley was very wanting to provide opportunities for people to go on these foreign secondments and to go and interface and interact with individuals within the industry or brands within the industry or regions across the globe that had a history within wine that was far richer than the
UK's, but to go and be a sponge for harvest and be able to bring some of that savoir fair or energy or perspective back. And I've a number of the people that I was working with at Hattonley during that period were afforded those opportunities.
And I think that's, it was a, it was, it was most certainly a contributing factor to that chapter of Hattonley being what it was. And it picked up a lot of championship medals and such such like,
not that those are the be all and end all for me in any way shape or form, but I think they were largely founded upon this this encouragement from Hattie Lee and from Simon to for employees to go and experience the world and make connections and network because when you go you also carry the name of the brand and the project and to come back and infuse those learnings into the project.
And so it's important for me to make that nod of recognition to the platform that has really did afford me. - Yeah, definitely. Simon's actually been on the podcast and he spoke a lot about how important it was for him to encourage younger,
the next sort of generation up to learn about it and everything. So that story rings very true with me. - Yeah, and I was there for, I had five wonderful years at Hastingsley and during that period I went in,
I went on to Foreign Harvest. And I guess the narrative I'll sort of offer now, I prefaced by saying the connection within wine is so prominent in that every,
I've never, I've never applied for a job with in 12 years in the industry, it's all come through connections or people I've worked with. And I was really fortunate to go and work in South Africa in 2015 with Graham Beck under the stewardship of Peter Ferrero,
who became my first ever or in a massive luminary in my professional career and also a very tight personal connection as well and that was just a it was going back to South Africa which had such a strong heartbeat in within me and during my time there I was working in the cellar with a um a Catalan Chuck John Monet,
who's the head wine maker at Rabin Tossi Blank in San Sardinia, Danoya. But now it's out of Barcelona. So I did Grand Beck in 2015 in South Africa, and then I went and worked with John in in in Catalonia in 2016.
And that was largely my first eyeopening experience into an alternate way of farming, and they were just shifting into biodynamics at that point,
which was a fascinating for I was only there for harvest, but you could feel that sort of energy and vibrancy and curiosity as they were shifting farming practices.
And that I mean, we from the cellar you overlooked these beautiful vineyards and Montserrat mountains in the background, it was a very,
very energetically grounding place and it was so steeped in history that you felt it when you got there. The Raventos family has been making wine since 1497.
It's the oldest single family owned estate on the planet and Pepe Raventos, the current, I guess, guardian of the, of the property and the brand is Generation 22.
So you feel this longevity and it's an amazing vibe to pick up. And there's almost unspoken lineage, really, that you just feel when you get there.
So that was 2016. And I returned to Hasselley after that harvest and did another couple of years. And I got to middle of 2018, and I was 28 at that point,
and I was very, very keen to have experiences further afield again within the global wine scene. And I knew that certain visas were only eligible up to a particular age in Australia,
New Zealand and California at that point, were three regions firmly within my crosshairs. So, I had to make a really big decision in foregoing a promotion at Hastingsley and it was one that both did cause me to reflect,
but I felt there was such a yearning to go out and experience again and be a sponge within a new global environment again.
So I went out to the States for six months, and there I worked with Peter Freira again. So my first ever mentor I worked with in South Africa is a consultant sparkling wine maker out at Stone Street Estates.
I had six amazing months there, followed by the 2019 harvest back at Grandbeck. So I sort of shadowed Peter around the globe for those two harvests.
And 2019 in mid -February, it took me down to Central Otago, which is just one of the most remarkable landscapes I think you can find. I was living in Wanaka and a street back from the shorefront there.
And yeah, it was a very, very special four months there, followed by a second stint in the States. So I did three harvests back to back in 2019. And during my I returned in between New Zealand and California in 2019.
In July I came back home for my brother's wedding. And I received a message from a very close friend of mine saying there's an Australian winemaker doing a talk in London,
do you fancy going? Do you know much about Mac Forbes? And I said, no, I don't know anything about him, he's probably some, some hipster making natty wines.
Anyhow, I went along to the to the talk and was absolutely captivated by the whole philosophical underpinning of what Mac was, was talking about.
And at the end of the evening, I went and introduced myself and had a chat with him and said, "Look, I've got work lined up in California from now through to the end of the year, but I don't know if anything lined up from January 2020 onwards.
I'd love to come and work with you." And he said, "Well, flick me an email and we'll hatch a plan." And that is the sowing of the seed that was the most transformational chapter of my engagement within the industry.
So I went back to California for six months. And in January 2020, I flew to Melbourne, where Mac has his project based out in Healville in the Yarra Valley.
And initially, it was just for a few months before the Harbors really, so for three months. And as we all know, very, very well, middle of March 2020,
the world largely turned upside down. And mid -vintage, we went from a team of six people down to one. And we had people,
as Australia largely sort of drew up the drawbridge on the rest of the globe, Sellehan's had to get back one to the States once in New Zealand one back to Melbourne one back to Argentina and suddenly there was this sort of evaporation of people and I was with my partner at the time and We could neither of us could go back to one another's country and with any certainty a job Whereas at the time we had both had
leases to be in Australia for that period. So we decided to stay put And I remember Mac coming to me as, you know, the world was just an absolute turmoil.
And he said, "Look, I don't know whether I can keep you on board." I said, "Look, what you've got in motion here resonates for me so strongly, I'm staying put. So if you need me,
I need an extra pair of hands, I'm here." And it was, it transpired into being best part of two years, working alongside Mac and his team there,
and it wasn't just a professional connection that was set in motion and strengthened, but a personal relationship that is super important to me.
And Mac became and still is one of my closest mates. And he completely reoriented the way I interface with worldwide.
I largely went and most of my experiences up to that point had all been wine making based. And so I sort of turned up in Max Winery as a as a wine maker really.
And I left two years later as a farmer and I take immense pride in a working in agriculture, but also regarding myself as a farmer rather rather than just a winemaker,
because in essence, what we do is working with nature, working with soil and growing a crop. Wine just happens to be the byproduct of it, a wonderful byproduct,
but the byproduct of it. And Matt completely reoriented the way that I look at wine or agriculture. And it's as though he largely gave me a set of specs,
a different set of specs to the ones I was working, sort of try these ones on. And it was an amazing, absolutely amazing, two years working with him. And it's,
yeah, the most pivotal chapters that I've had within my professional experiences. And through Mac, I then was incredibly fortunate to go and work with a viticulture consultant called Dylan Grigg who's based over in Adelaide but consults internationally and Dylan is max consultant as well and I reached out to Dill and said I was looking at coming across to Adelaide and Dylan put me in touch with some projects that he felt
would be philosophically aligned with where I was orienting and I moved across once borders had opened between Victoria and South Australia,
which was an ordeal in its own right in the middle of COVID. I had ended up being over in Adelaide for 15 months working with I sort of split between three projects.
I was working with gentle folk who are based up in Adelaide Hills, run by Gareth and Rainbow Belton. Amazing projects, super honest wines, expressive,
wonderful people first and foremost, and making some, they've got a fantastic portfolio and just giving it a red ock go in farming with integrity.
I was then working with Noringa, who were a biodynamic producer out in Mount Barker, so slightly further out of the Adelaide Hills. And then working with Dylan himself up at his old vine,
Grenache Block in the Barossa, working with vines that were up to 120 years old, just growing in sort of beach sand really,
really remarkable. And I was doing this sort of multi -pronged week where I was working with three producers part -time. And Dylan was the sort of thread between them and that he had his own project was consulting or was the video consultant to Jennifer who did some work when they're angry as well.
He was that thread that ran through them. And it was it was absolutely extraordinary, isn't it? as a bit of exposure and I was largely vineyard oriented through that phase and I'd had very extensive wine making experience but I knew that there was,
I knew that I wanted greater viticultural experience based on a practical level and also dialing more into the called direction of a project from a viticultural perspective and I sense that there might be an opportunity coming further down the track and before I leant into whatever that opportunity might be that greater exposure on a viticultural perspective would make my experience and my offering more wholesome to whatever
it might be that that layerhead And Appenstance had it that I was then approached by the Brank and Pomeray portfolio to join Pingleston Estate.
And I went from working with 120 -year -old Grenache Bush finds in Beech Sand to working with a nascent project of three -year -old vines on English chalk,
all within the space of about, well, I mean, I, I came over for the 22 harvests and I, the day prior I was up in the brotha. And so there was this, excuse the pun,
there's like chalk and cheese of experiences. But all of those, all of those experiences over the six years I had domestically, and then six years internationally,
I find all of those threads interlacing into how I express myself now and interface with farming. And I think that's the beauty of, for me anyway,
that's the beauty of getting experiences elsewhere and interacting and having exposure to alternate philosophical approaches that in some way,
shape or form, they all weave into this amazing tapestry. And that's something that definitely came across when I visited the Pinkhurston estate a couple of months back,
you know, in you don't often, sometimes you do, but you don't often hear winemakers talking about the land in that, I think you use the world sort of wholesome with that wholesome kind of approach.
And we'll talk more about the planting there and the farming there. But What was it that sort of attracted you then? Because obviously you were up in the Brosser Valley, you were working with some amazing people.
What was it that attracted you to come back to England? - Very interesting. When I was working with Mack in the Yarra Valley, I, you know,
I got to know him really, really well. He had done foreign excursions, but there was this yearning or this, he felt this sort of gravitational pull back to the arrow, which is where he grew up. And I always felt that,
that a fascinating sort of rounding of a circle. And when I was working with him, I didn't necessarily feel that pull back home.
Yeah, I was thoroughly enjoying the foreign excursions. And then this opportunity rose its head, or read its head.
And everything Mac had described two years ago, I sort of felt this sort of wellspring come up from within me. And there was this, this want to be able to channel all of these experiences over 12 years,
wholeheartedly with the industry, but 16 within the, within it on an including sort of part -time basis. but there was this opportunity that presented itself through the through Pingleston Estate and through the Varenkampam report portfolio to re -engage with land and community that I had literally grown up on and to be able to harness all of the experience all of the philosophical underpinnings that I've been so fortunate to
be exposed to through my travels and then and working with with Hattie previously as well, into this extraordinary project and it just it felt like this amazing homecoming and life isn't linear in any way shape or form and it just the whole prospect of the opportunity meant that the circle just rounded itself so fittingly and I mentioned earlier in our conversation,
a vineyard manager who was incredibly powerful in his enthusiasm and on reflection, I feel as though sowed a bit of a seed within me. The circle rounds itself right now in that that very same vineyard manager,
Jez Bamman, is who I work with on a daily basis here at Pingleston. And so the first person who really ignited something within me, unbeknownst to me at the time,
is somebody I have an immense professional respect for, a wonderful personal relationship with, but are now curating this amazing project alongside.
And I'm unbelievably fortunate that every single day I go to work, I'm able to walk into the vineyard and look down on a football pitch,
I used to play on 29 years ago with my best mates. There is only one hillside on the planet that offers that or evokes that memory for me,
and it's here. And so, you know, the portfolio that this project sits within has such a rich history in its own right.
You added all the contextual layers that I've largely, I hope I've intimated. And it just became so magnetic.
And yeah, it's been a wonderful homecoming, is the way that I can only really describe it, really. And for me, it's an opportunity to on a solely speaking for me to give back to a land and a community that has given me so much through my performative years.
That has been a heartbeat of who I am and so many wonderful memories. My hope is that this project can largely become a heartbeat within that very community.
- It's such a lovely story and it is that sort of full circle, as you say, but it's also moving forward in that there's so much to come from this project. You've joined in its infancy.
Tell us about what it's been like over the last 18 months, two years that you've been working on the project, and let's talk about the vines and the wines.
So the Pingleston estate was sort of took root as a vineyard back in 2017. It was procured as land by the Varenkampomri portfolio in 2016,
after having done, this is way before me, but there had been a pioneering progressive forward -looking approach from the portfolio as to what other projects would be of interest to weave into our wider offering.
And I think the UK had been on the radar for some time and Kimo Pielo, who's the Pomeranian chef to come and Mocio Vrancon, who's the owner of the group, had come across a number of visits to South of England,
East Sussex, West Sussex Hampshire. And when they drove around here, there was a feeling of congruence for them. And the land that the Pingleston estate vineyard is is currently situated on wasn't available for sale at that point,
but they felt such such a synergy with it that they got in touch with the land owner directly and through negotiations they they procured procured the land. And in 2017,
they became the first champagne house to put vines in the ground in the UK. And I do take my hat off to them immensely for the manner in which they've planted.
It's largely been curated in a way that is very champagne -wise. And I'll qualify that in that champagne it's such a myriad or a tapestry of vineyard parcels.
But that largely is the framework by which Pingleston Estate has been curated. And we're a 40 hectare. Yeah, you've got the map. I have the map that Will very kindly gave us when we came to visit.
It was a bit of a breezy and blustery day when you came up to France, still in one piece. Yeah, the, so the estates is in the town of what overlooks the town of Allsford,
which is 10 miles east of Winchester. So there's a huge, there's a very, there's an immense historical semblance with the city of Winchester anyway, and Allsford is this beautiful Georgian market town.
But going back to the plantings, there's a copis at the top of the land, which is a 40 -hectare piece of land. And billowing out and down from the woodland up at the top is our slopes that largely are on a full 360 -degree compass.
And what I find fascinating and where I hugely doff my cap to the Rankin -Pombe portfolio and the way that they rated and constructed the vineyard layout is that where traditionally I think just the southern slopes or maybe some southwest slopes would have been planted up,
it's been planted on the full 360. So we have aspect parcels that range from 0 .7 hectares up to 2 .5 hectares.
Within the 40 hectare land mass here at Pinguiston, 27 are planted to vines. And again, I'll qualify that in a bit,
but 27, and that's spits up into 25 individual parcels. And those parcels might be same variety, but different clone, but almost every single parcel has its own personality.
And that comes It might come through a different variety, it might be a different clone. The rootstocks are all identical, that's a furcal rootstock that we use across the board.
The orientation and the aspect of each parcel is almost wholeheartedly different from one block to another. We in essence farm 25 individual blocks across 27 hectares of vineyards,
and that is certainly for me in the way that I look at it, an extraordinary opportunity to be able to get to know the idiosyncratic personalities really of each block because we have blocks of Chardonnay that are at 90 degrees to one another.
As you come in the gate, you've got a block of Chardonnay on east -southeast and then immediately next to it, southeast and then behind it, one running east -west. The personalities of those three blocks are completely different.
The soil profile changes massively. The aspect and the row orientation is completely different, same variety, but the personality is just wildly so.
And so the, I think the incredible opportunity that this project has created for itself, and it's where the sort of synergy and symbiosis between Shamp -N -Wa's parentage and English team on the ground starts to come in,
in that we, albeit there being a Shamp -N -Wa's planting framework that Pingleston has been curated through.
That's all farmed by us. It's not Jean -Pierre owning seven rows and then Claude owning the next five who might be on completely different reading of completely different philosophical hymns but there's nothing that separates one row from another.
Everything is farmed by us and so the ability to be able to dial into each pocket and parcel of land on a daily basis and on a seasonal basis is absolutely extraordinary and that for me is where so much of the excitement to what this project offers lies and hopefully due course we've got our own whining facility that there is a cellar that is largely constructed with tanks that are representative of particular blocks
so that we can keep each block not just farm it separately but keep it separate the whole way through. For us it's fascinating but hopefully I mean the opportunity is there to take consumers on a journey and I think the way in which this has been planted largely provides the bedrock for that opportunity.
And I go just to go back to something I said we've got 40 hectares but 27 planted to vines. I said I'd qualify that I've sort of rounded back to it now.
One of the ways I think we've reoriented in the last couple of years is rather than look at it just as a vineyard is looking at it through a more ecological lens where,
yes we do have 27 hectares planted and there are vines there, there's also two meters between each row of vines which isn't a vine and for us that's largely as important as the primary crop and you know we're orienting on to this journey and there's a long way to go but the intention is to try and look at this as a holistic entity and a holistic estate where biodiversity and respect for where we're fortunate enough
to farm is at the forefront of every decision we look to make here. Ecological sensitivity has been woven into the project from its inception.
I hope over the last couple of years, we've been able to accelerate that a little bit more. And I guess it's looking to tap into a more regenerative farming approach and to pick up on something you mentioned earlier,
and it being interesting to have a wine maker talk about land connection too. To me, that's where the fascination lives and the opportunity here is to be able to dive into that so so deeply and to be able to have a positive impact on where you're growing something and the hedgerows and the mid rows and the areas that aren't planted to vines can be as critically important to your primary crop as the primary crop
itself and trying to weave in threads, sort of multi -faceted threads into the same tapestry such that they can all support one another than working with a sort of a monoculture where I think you you're going towards a dead end.
What has that approach so far meant for the for the resulting wines? Because you've it's how many harvests is it actually from the grapes that have been grown at Pingleston? Is it just a wine or...?
No, it's been going to harvest four. So, 2020, yeah, their plantings were done on a staggered basis. 2020 was the first harvest that came off of Pingleston.
So, 2024, this current vintage would be the fourth vintage off of the estate. And so, what would you say that has brought to the wine so far.
How can consumers, I suppose, identify the wines that you're making over and above or against other wines that are on the market at the moment?
So I guess, as you all know well with special wine, there's such a lag phase between Arvis and a bottle meeting a consumer. And so the first expressions of Pingleston farming are coming to,
are on the market now. And so, what we hope over the next, well, the journey that consumers choose to come along on with us is that they get a sense that there's a very strong receptivity and sensitivity to place.
All our wines will will only ever be single vineyard. Now that we've reached a point where everything we've grown is what is the consumer meets in liquid form.
In terms of a stylistic, stylistic threads that run through the the portfolio, what we strive to engender is elegance, finesse and texture. They're the three sort of hallmarks for us whenever we're getting to not just getting to blending,
but they're all that's the framework that we're working towards. The Louis Pomeray England, which is the sort of has been the mainstay of the portfolio up until earlier this year when a rose came and came into the stable.
Hiloeparmory England is largely a snapshot for consumers of Pingouston estates. The varietal composition as a blend is largely representative of the varietal composition of the vineyard plantings.
So that for us hopefully is emblematic of Pingouston. We grow four varieties. In 2020, only three of those were on,
were in production. So Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Mignier and Pinot Gris are the four principal varieties that we grow.
Pinot Gris was a slightly later planting, so the current Louis -Pomery England, albeit non -ventages based on the 2020 harvest, that was before the degree had come on stream.
So the current Louis -Pommeringland release is a snapshot of vineyard plantings of Chardonnay Pinot Noir and Pinot Mignot. And the Pinot degree comes in with subsequent releases and is an important feature of the ROSE,
sparkling with Louis -Pommeringland ROSE that joined the portfolio earlier this year. Again, that's non -vintage, but it's based on 2021 harvest. Pinot Gris is a variety that I think has an immense future in the UK,
had a presence and an energy to it this year. I'd say this year, last year, 2023, but the blends this calendar year that I hadn't seen before,
had this dynamism and this texture and complexity that we're super curious to explore going forward. It's about a hectare parcel,
so it's not a massive part of our farming portfolio, but that doesn't downplay its importance in releases to come.
So yeah, as a stylistic framework, it's elegance, finesse and texture that comes through. And we look to sort of achieve that in, in various different ways throughout the growing season,
but then also through winemaking approaches as well. And at the moment, you've got the loop of England, the the the white sort of your classic brood.
classic brood. And then the Rosa that came on board. And the classic brood, you can buy that, consumers can buy that, and you can get that, I think it's even sold in some supermarkets,
I won't name which ones, but I think. But the Rosa is a little bit more exclusive in that, that's just sort of served in restaurants, has that ever got that right?
Correct, The Louis Palmer England are classic brute blend is both on and off trade with good distribution or accessible distribution.
Given volumes, the decision has been taken that the Louis Palmer England rosé is solely for on -trade. As volumes increase with some subsequent vintages.
What approach we choose to take is up for discussion, but at the moment that's solely trade for the rose. But we've been absolutely delighted with the way the rose is showing itself and it's been wonderfully received by the trade as well.
- And what's next? Can you talk about what you might be producing next? What's on the card? As a portfolio, there'll be, there'll be a blonde and blonde that comes into the comes in as the sort of third stable mate.
And that'll largely be the composition of the portfolio for a number of years. And in due course, a prestige Kuvei will be woven into the the portfolio,
that won't be rushed in any way, shape, or form. And the reason for that is for us for something to be prestige,
or for us getting to know ourselves and blocks on an individual level across a spectrum of vintage conditions is really um for us to ascertain whether it's just a sort of one hit wonder in one year or whether there is this consistency um but a Prestige Cuvier will largely be um introduced into the portfolio in due course and going back to the planting composition of Pinkerton I think there is an opportunity for the
project to to dial in even more um in a more fine -tuned manner where even though we're a single vineyard,
we can go down to single block section and then subsection of single blocks. And I guess to highlight the importance of the chapter I had with Mack Forbes into what I currently do when I came here in 2022 for harvest.
The way that Mac looks to pick is down a hillside rather than across a hillside and looking at different sort of bands or stratas or sub -blocks within a block.
It was a fascinating sort of reorienting of approaches for me because I'd only sort of worked from left to right rather than top down. and that's been with some amazing mapping,
solo radiation mapping that Dylan Grigg, his viticulture consultant, has largely brought in. And it's just given an extra layer to the whole lens through which you can farm.
And when I came here in 2022, I got off the plane on about September the 28th or something and we were picking four days it. And the way we go about making our rose is we select particular rows or subsections of rows unvenified as read.
And when I was walking down them, it almost felt as though I was walking not that Max ever been here, but it was almost as though I was walking down the row with him, sort of embodying the whole philosophical approach and it just it was this amazing feeling of being fully grounded in where I was and that this place holds so much resonance to me and that there was this like energetic presence in a in a mentor
walking down the hillside with me and it was this extraordinary experience and it just embodied the beauty of what this is really and this being not just this project but this being the journey through winemaking and connecting with people on a level where they don't actually need to physically be with you,
you carry them with you the whole way through and that their philosophical threads continue. What a moment that is and I mean you've described quite a few sort of as you've been chatting there.
One of the questions I do ask everybody is it is there a moment in your kind of English or just general wine journey that really sort of sticks in in your mind? I mean, would that would that be it? Or do you have that?
That is one of them. And it was a very evocative experience. The other one would be I,
Oh, they're a couple really. I went back to South Africa just on holiday. I would have probably been in 2017 or so. I went back to visit Granbeck and Peter Freire put us up and such like and my brother and I and very close mate had been walking up in the mountains and we came back to Granbeck and Peter on this this bribe for us.
And then we'd had a couple of couple of jars. And we were about to go. And he said, no, there's one more bottle we've got to open. And he came out and literally sort of blew the dust off it.
And it was a magnum of 1991, Graham Beck, which was one of the first wines that Peter had ever made and was the wine served for Nelson Mandela's inauguration in 1994 presidency and it was it was remarkable it was just this it seemed like this time capsule that had such it was so steeped in history that given our state we probably didn't appreciate it quite as much as would have done it justice but it was a
wonderful memory and one that sort of came to the forefront when you asked that question. Oh, amazing. And I won't hold on. My maths isn't very good. Is that a wine before you were born?
Just after. I'm in 1990. Just after. Yeah, just after. It would have been even better if it was exactly the same year, wouldn't it, that you were born? That would have made that. Correct. I'll ask that feedback on the thesis.
How fabulous. There's one other question that I'd like to ask people at the end of the podcast, and that's if there's one wine that they could not live without,
what would it be and why? It's quite interesting. I might sound really strange, but as a wine maker, I don't actually drink a huge amount of booze. and so I could quite easily exist without wine.
Interesting. A cup of Earl Grey, however, cannot be beaten. So it was a pretty cheap day in there, God. That's brilliant.
You know what? We've had Charlie Holland on and he actually said that for a winemaker, he doesn't drink much wine and his drink of choice is beer. So we've had beer.
And now we've got Earl Grey tea. I think that does take it a step further. I'm just glad you didn't say non -alcoholic wine. That's that's where I was worried it was going. Where would I go?
I'm a bit of a bit of a reasling freak. I love riser. I was a super restaurant nearby for Lucky like you,
which is a Malaysian restaurant. And we had, I forget the bottle, the reasoning bottle now, but it was absolutely stellar. And the two were just in unison.
It was amazing. So as a good food for wine pairing as well, that style of food for the reasoning. Yeah. It was a super raisin with acid tension and texture.
And that, I think we had it with and bow buns. It was top -notch. Yeah, it was very, very good. Well, thank you, Will, for a really enlightening story.
So many moments there, as you said, had sort of tingles going across my arms at a couple of the points. So what an amazing journey. It sounds like there's so much more to come.
There's not a winery there there yet at Pingalstone but you're hoping that there will be in due course and also some form of visitor centre type cellar door experience.
Yeah that's the hope of the next couple years that the project enters into the next chapter and having vineyards established but that we then have our own winery facility and tasting venue on site,
hopefully to be able to take consumers on the journey that we're fortunate to be able to live on a daily. Yeah on that journey and I feel like it you could well create a whole museum sort of collections of information about what's going on there.
Good luck with that journey. I can't wait to visit once that's open and I can't wait to try more of the wines. Good luck and thanks again for your time. Thank you and thank you for the chat.
That was Will Perkins, a man who just oozes passion about every aspect of winemaking. What a great story. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The English Wine Diaries,
which is kindly sponsored by Wickham Wines. If you've enjoyed this episode or others, I'd so love it if you'd like subscribe and leave a rating as it helps other people find us You can catch up with more English wine news over on my Instagram at the English wine diaries I'll be back next week with someone you might not expect.
I'll give you a clue He's a member of one of the biggest British bands of all time until then cheers