Who Am I? - Michael Dore’s Journey In Song

In Episode 5 of  of 'TALK KING' - Broadcaster Dominic King meets Michael Dore, a vocal coach to Hollywood actors and pop stars.

Recorded at his home in Broadstairs  - Michael takes Dom from a childhood of kitchen-table harmonies to West End booths, orchestral stages, and film scoring sessions at Abbey Road.

You’ll hear how he helped Taron Egerton shape a conversational, intimate vocal presence for Rocketman without mimicking Elton John’s sound, and how six months of focused work built confidence that could carry a film.

Film music fans get a rare seat in Abbey Road as Michael recalls singing on Lord of the Rings films.

If you love the craft behind unforgettable performances, or you’re searching for practical wisdom on nerves, style, and longevity, this one’s for you. 

Follow the show, share it with a friend who lives for film scores and big voices, and leave us a review with the moment that surprised you most.

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Transcript

Sea Air, Home, And Beginnings

SPEAKER_00 0:06

My guest this time on Talking is Michael Dawr, singer, performer, vocal coach, and definitely a voice from the movies that you will have heard in your lifetime. We're here at your home.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Yes, welcome to Broadstairs in Kent on the southeast coast of England.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

We are overlooking the beach there. It looks lovely on a day that's not great, but the rain is falling. I think there's something about the coast. It doesn't really matter what the weather's doing, it's always atmospheric. I think it's the fresh air and just freshness, you know, lots of sky, lots of sea. And the waves just crashing in. But it is getting a little bit chilly out here. It is getting a bit chilly.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Do you want to come to my home, which is literally a two-minute walk? Yeah, let's have a walk over there. And here we are. This is our little home away from home. Dom coming in. Welcome to our little a little abode.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

I was thinking about as I was coming in actually to Broadstairs, about all those connections with, like, you know, Dickens, obviously, here and the rest. And you see that in the Esplanade, you see that whole feeling of what it must have been like when he was around and walking the streets and all the rest, in the same like other parsers, places in Kent. But sitting in here, it feels a bit like the old parlour.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

We love sort of oldie worldie, and you know, we've got pharaoh and ball on the walls, you know, and dark. You know, my mother would say, my mother never saw this house, but she would have said, Oh, it's a bit dark, isn't it? You know, you're you've always got to put the lights on. But we like that, and we love we love old things, but you know, we've got old furniture, we've got antiques, you know. Although in the kitchen it's much more contemporary. So uh we like a mixture of things. We don't really think about the Dickens thing.

Family Roots And Making Music Together

SPEAKER_00 2:07

It's just wherever we've lived, we've always done that, you know. But actually, your background, and you talked about your mum and dad there, you know, you you were brought up in Cleethorpe's, and the seaside obviously was a big part of your life then.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Absolutely, yeah. Well, I grew up, yeah, uh I was born in Cleethorpe's and we lived in Grimsby, which is a conurbation, so the the the the two you never know where one ends and the other one starts. A bit like Margate and and Ramsgate, you know, they sort of blend into each other. Coming here and living in Broadstairs, it feels like, you know, coming full circle. Because I, you know, grew up till I was 18, but then moved to London, and I've been in London since then, but moving here has just felt felt like coming home because it's the sea, and you know, I hadn't realised how much I'd missed it.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Does it give you any kind of inspiration as well? Because for a lot of artists that I've spoken to, where they live or where they have another place to live is really important to them because it's some sort of moment of breathing and pull. I mean, let's listen to that sound in this room. It's quiet. It's quiet, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

And I mean, we love to go down to the sea because it can be incredibly quiet, and you hear the seagulls, um, but it can be also very exhilarating as well because it can be really choppy, you know. Um, and it it's a sort of feeling of freedom, really. I think the space and the seeing the sky, you know, and and just looking out to the sea, you you get that sense of of space that you don't get in London, you know, you don't get in a town. And I've spent you know most of my life living in the city, you know, with the buildings and all of that. So coming here, it's a bit like the doors are open, you know, the gates are open and and there's a sense of freedom, you know, just fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Yeah, Michael, your mum, your dad, and actually your older sister as well, I think they all had a part to play in your love of music. Uh, going out with mum and dad when they were on the road because they were musicians. But wasn't it your dad who kind of knew your mum was out doing stuff and kind of wanted to get involved?

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Yeah, well, what happened was uh mum had always sung since she was a little girl. She went in for music festivals, and then she joined local operatic societies and just always sang. And eventually what happened was dad got a bit tired of mum going out. I mean, mum was a hairdresser, dad was a welder. They were their you know jobs. And mum was often out, you know, a couple of nights a week, maybe three nights in a week, doing various things. And and it was mum's singing teacher that said, Why doesn't Sid learn to play the guitar? Because then he can accompany mum. And uh so at the age of 45, he picked up a guitar and he had quite fat fingers. Um, he was a welder, so he, you know, he worked with his hands, he never done anything like play guitar, and he picked it up and he really persevered. It was quite tricky, but he he persevered and uh and then they went out entertaining as a duo. Did you go along with them? I did, yeah, and my sister as well. The two of us would go, um, sometimes we'd go and listen, and then eventually we'd join in and we were like the door family singer at the Von Trapps. Um and and and not only did we sing and but we both my sister and I both learnt to play the piano as mum had done as well as a little girl. Um so we played the piano and we'd sing. And dad also, dad all had also uh played the viol uh the not the violin, um he played the mouth organ. So what happened was he got this contraption that he put round that had round his neck. Oh, yeah, a bit like um Bob Dylan. Yeah, a bit like a one-man band, although he didn't have the drum. And uh and so he would he would accompany Mum on the guitar and he would play the mouth organ as well, you know, sort of play harmonies and you know, obligalto bits of of uh tune and things. Um and he would also harmonise with mum. He had a he probably had the better ear of all of us. Um he just could naturally harmonise, you know. I I sing really complicated harmonies in in when I'm doing my contemporary music stuff, but um he could just naturally do it, you know, it was just in his system. Um and he had a good voice as well, which we never really found out until he started going out, you know, performing with mum. Um and then he would sing in harmony with mum, and you know. So I grew up with that. It was it was in the house the whole time, you know. I uh mu so it was it just seemed to be the right thing to do, to do music.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

So was that the kind of pull for you? I mean, when did when did you first think actually um I like using my voice as my instrument?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

I think I I do you know, I can't remember a time when I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

It was just part of it.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

It was just part of it. You know, we just grew up, you know, my sister and I grew up with it happening in the house all the time. You know, mum would be singing, dad would be playing his guitar. And we we just we did it as well. And I also learnt to play the French horn, um, which was helped by my head of music at school. Um he said, Well, why don't you, you know, learn an instrument and then you can be part of the school orchestra, which I did, and then I became part of the youth orchestra. Um, we went to Germany, the twin town of Koenigswinter, and you know, it was it was and this was all before I went to college. Um so uh, you know, music was just the thing. My uncle sang as well, my mum's brother. He was a really good singer, it was sort of in the genes, and um so I you know I sort of grew up wanting to be my Uncle Paul, you know, because he was such a good singer and he was a performer as well. And I think doing music festivals from a very early age, I think I was five when I did the first one, which was a piano class, and then I did sing classes as well. But just that thing about being in front of an audience, it I just loved it, and I still love it, you know. I I do it, I do it, and it as long as I know what I'm doing, as long as I know the words, know the tune, know the um just and it's in the right key, you know. I'm I I couldn't be happier, you know.

Nerves, Mistakes, And Professional Resilience

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Michael Dahl, we're talking here on talking. You know, I get the chance to come and meet so many people from the world of entertainment, uh, from all different walks of life, um, from filmmakers to musicians. All of you have one thing in common to me, I think, and it's that sense of you know, you just want to do the best job you can. You're always thinking, yes, I can do it, I know I can do it, but am I gonna do the best job I can? And that sometimes comes with a mixture of kind of pre-nerves or uh worry that are you doing the right thing? And it doesn't seem to matter whether someone tells you you're brilliant. For you, it's about that kind of personal challenge. Is that you?

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Yeah, absolutely. And I don't think you ever feel like, oh, I can do it now. I I know exactly how to do it, because you're always checking yourself. And I, you know, I work with students, I work with people in the business, singers, actors, coaching them, and uh everybody has that insecurity. You know, the times you think, oh, they know what they're doing, they're really happy, you know, they're just so confident and they come across as being, you know, really confident. And you have to, you can't walk on stage and and look like you're a bit scared. You know, you have to go on with confidence. But the more I've done it, the more I know that everybody has has that same sense of of nervousness, you know. I always want it to be the best I can make it. Do you know what I mean? I don't think, oh, it was alright, you know. I just think, oh no, I'd make sure that your next time, you know, is right.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Do you ever get in the lead up to an event, do you ever get worried about going on stage or worried about an event in the diary that you know is coming up that that almost takes over a bit, leading right up to the moment of you doing it.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

And then when you do it, you feel okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

I think well, I think I I've always said that there's always the po it doesn't matter how well you know something, there's always a possibility it can go wrong. Has it? It has gone wrong. I mean I've I've sung all sorts of I've sung all sorts of wrong words and I've taken you know wrong turnings, you know, and gone into the wrong section of something, even though I've thought I'd I'd known it really well, uh whatever the you know the piece was. And um I mean there are a whole load of examples. The first time I sang the title song to Sunset Boulevard, it's a ve it's very wordy. And um very often with all of the orchestral gigs that I've done over the years, um you basically go in and do an orchestral rehearsal in the afternoon, and then you do the concert in the evening or the broadcast or whatever it is. So you don't have a chance to sort of rehearse it over and over again. And there was one occasion, uh well, this this occasion with the Sunset Boulevard, I got to the line um wallpaper peeling at the corners. I got to that line and for a split second I thought I don't know what this line is. And I just came up with somebody peeping round the corner. I don't know where it came from. I don't know where it came from. So rather than going blah blah blah blah blah, I went somebody peeping round the corner. Do you know what I mean? I I don't know where it came from. It was just that one line. Um, and instead of wallpaper peeling at the corners, it something, something just you know, I slightly delayed it and then said it uh with these different lyrics, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

So you almost caught yourself and was able and your brain was able to say, Yeah, it's okay. Uh we'll just come up with something else.

West End Language And Community

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah, I remember doing um uh you are the Christ, yes, the great Jesus Christ, the superstar. And I got into the line about um Walk Around my swimming pool. It's a long time ago, I can't remember exactly what the lyric is. But I kept it's like I got in a loop. So each verse I said I ended up singing the same line, so I kept saying Walk around my swimming pool. Whatever the line is about a swimming pool. And I thought, how many more times can I say that? It's like I couldn't get into the next verse. Um and those things the aud very often the audience don't know. They don't they don't hear it. Mind you, there was one there was one occasion when I was I was doing a um I used to do a programme called Friday Night is Music Night. There's a famous programme on the BBC for Radio 2. Yeah, it's now on on Radio 3, but I did that for years and and uh I I did many, many of them. And there was one uh uh in the soliloquy from Carousel, there's a line, give it give it something like give me a peck and call it a kiss. And I kept thinking when I was learning it, I was thinking peck kiss, and and I got them the wrong way around. So I did a sort of spoonerism so you can imagine Yeah, what w what actually came out. Oh my goodness. So I didn't say kiss. You said I was gonna say peck, but but in fact I ended I realized it should be kiss, so I went piss and it came out as piss basically. And uh one of the orchestra came to me after the con in the bar and said, uh, did you just sing piss? And I said, Well, yeah, I think I did. So there are occasions, you know, where it can be noticeable, and I've gone on and I've sung absolute rubbish, made it up, and then afterwards, you know, seeing people and I go and they go, Oh yeah, yeah, we really enjoyed it, you know, well done. You know, and I say, Yeah, but what about the words in so-and-so? And they didn't notice, not a c not a clue. You just have to get through it. You you know, you can't you can't stop and say, Oh, well, I didn't, you know, that's not quite the right will, you know, you just have to keep going. My agent at a concert at the Albert Hall once, and uh my agent was sitting in the audience, and um I I was singing, you know, I wasn't getting anything wrong, I think it was getting it all right. But she was listening to the two women behind me, and uh they they weren't listening to what I was singing, they were discussing whether I was wearing boxer shorts or not. Can you believe it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they weren't really listening to me, they were just they oh well, I think he's got boxer shorts on. Oh no, no, I don't think there was all this going on, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Michael, you have travelled around, um, been on so many different stages. Um we talk about this West End and and often people talk about the West End almost like it's uh not a space in a place in London, or the same with Broadway, but it's actually a physical being almost. Yeah, West End performer, the Broadway star.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

One thing that I we have a thing about is uh people have started now saying on the West End. Which they never did before. No, it's always been in the West End. Is that because of Broadway, on Broadway? Yes, exactly. Because people say, Oh, he's starring on Broadway. So people have started here now saying, Oh, he's starring on the West End. Well, no, the West End is an area. Broadway is a street. In fact, we got a poster changed on the underground that said on the West End, and we got in touch with the producers and they said, You're absolutely right, and they redid the print. Oh wow. Yeah. The West End, in some ways, feels more contained because you turn a corner and there's another theatre, and then you turn the corner and there's another theatre. But Broadway is similar. I think you know, most of my friends have worked in the West End. You know, I do a lot of classical stuff, which is totally different world, but I do a lot of West End stuff, and a lot of my friends are involved in West End shows and have been. And it's it's being part of a fraternity, I suppose you could call it.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

What was your first experience?

Inside The Cats Vocal Booth

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Well, what happened with me was that I um started doing booth singing as a sort of I've always called it a day job. And I I sang in the Cat's booth for 18 years. Can you explain that to us of booth singing? Oh yeah, booth singing is basically it came about because mainly with dance shows, in that the dancers are throwing themselves around the stage, particularly in cats. I mean, really complicated choreography by Gillian Lynn. Amazing, wonderful choreography, but they're having to sing at the same time as throwing themselves up and down and around the stage and all that sort of thing. What happened with cats was they had four understudies in the vocal booth, which was just a curtained off part of the stage, and with a microphone. So four people would go in and sing soprano, alto, tenor, and bass, the four main parts of the chorus singing. Very often, one or two, and in fact, some nights there were four of them were on stage. If there was a bug going around and loads of people were off, those people would be on stage. And very often they didn't have like maybe there were no mezzos, you know, no sopranos or there were no tenors or whatever, so there was a part missing because so many people were sick uh and the understudies were on stage doing their other parts, not singing their harmony parts. And um, so what they decided to do was have a f a permanent booth. So you went into this booth, this curtained off part of the stage, and there would always be soprano, alto, tenor, and bass. That's amazing. Well, it it it just meant that the harmonies were always there.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

But I don't think people would know this at all.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

No, no, no, I mean it was it was a it was a bit of a secret, really. You know, it was it was very much in the small print in the program. And um, but it was gr it was great for me, and they had you know, when I was doing it, they did um I was doing cats, but I would dep, uh I would be a deputy doing uh Starlight Express. So there would be some nights or a matinee and go off and do a Starlight Express show. I can hear Starlight Express in your head of your Starlight Express. Yeah, exactly. And I mean it it it was a great job, and it it it didn't you didn't have to sign up to do eight shows a week for six months or a year or two years or whatever. You were just booked by the by the show. And because I've always done concerts and touring and recording sessions and all of that, if I was available and they said, Could you do Tuesday afternoon or could you do Saturday evening? you know, I'd look in my diary and say, Yeah, I can do that, or no, I can't because I'm away, or you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

It just struck me when you started that about cats, when you said 18 years.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Yeah, I mean I've always I've always fought against being locked into a long-term show where I'd be doing, like I say, eight shows a week, six months of of a year, or a year, or two years, you know, some people stay in a show for years and years and years. The thing about cats was um it was partly a social occasion as well. I mean, we had to behave ourselves, but you know, some of my best friends I made in the cats booth. Yeah, I mean, we uh we did misbehave at times. What did you do, Michael? Well, to keep us occupied, because obviously we weren't singing the whole time. You know, we would we'd play Scrabble, uh, we'd play cards, you know, we'd chat, and and then we used to have to keep it down to it. Do you know what I mean? Because sometimes we'd get a little bit hysterical. And stage management would come in and say, Shh, you know, keep quiet, we can hear you front of house. And people would sometimes come in and they'd be, you know, like you know, a guest would come in or a friend would come in and sit in and watch what we did, and we'd be chat, we'd be chatting about something, and do whoop! Do what, and they would be like, Oh my god, you know, because we all knew it so well, because we'd all done it for such a long time, you know, it was it was in our memory, and we could still chat or we could do our and in the background we knew the music was going on, and then we could just switch like that and do whatever we needed to do in the show.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

The muscle memory clearly working really well. You you mentioned uh the start of our conversation about coaching, and that's been actually a really big part of your career to date that you have helped artists to get to where they need to get to, whether it be for a performance on stage or on on a movie, using all your experience over the years to coach. Is it something you naturally fell into? Did someone once ask you once, oh Michael, could you help me with this?

Coaching As A Calling And Craft

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Well, what happened it actually when cats came to an end? Because that had been a regular, you know, it had paid, it had paid my mortgage, basically. I mean, I only did officially four shows a week. I hadn't really thought about it, but when it came to an end, I suddenly thought, oh, that regular money coming in my, you know, it's a it can be a very precarious business and notoriously precarious business. And um that was one of the great things about booth singing was the fact that that because I was on the regular team, that money would come in every month, pay the mortgage, pay what Whatever. So when that stopped, that income stopped. And a friend of mine, Jane Robison, who sang in the booth, and we'd been at Guildhall School of Music and Drama together, she taught at performance college in Essex. And there were just two female singing teachers at the time, and she said, We really need somebody to come and deal with the boys, deal with the, you know, the men. Teach the men. Would you be interested? And I said, Well, yeah, actually I would. And I was thinking, actually, this would be really useful because this would replace the money from the cats booth. So uh, and it was more or less the same time. I mean, you know, I've been very lucky with timings, I must say. Um, and the timing was perfect.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

And was it a natural thing for you to do? Did you feel really comfortable being able to did you like helping someone else to achieve have you enjoyed that?

SPEAKER_02 22:55

I've always enjoyed it. I mean, just helping somebody get better, you know. And I I think I do it, I still do it with myself, you know, because I check myself. I think, how can I make that better? I was working yesterday, I've got this concert at Cadugan Hall on Tuesday, and I was so I was going over the stuff yesterday, and I was just thinking, right, that's not quite right, you need to fix that. Do you know what I mean? So I coach myself, but but getting somebody else to be better, I mean, I've been lucky because I've had some really good people who are already good singers, and what you do is you you make it better. But I've also had some when I was when I first started at performance college, you know, they were dancers, they're amazing dancers, but some of them were not good singers, which they would admit to, you know, and get you know, sometimes couldn't sing in tune, couldn't find a pitch, you know, all that. And I just working with them and and get it. There was one particular girl, Caroline, and she said, Well, I can't sing, I can't sing, and we worked and we worked, and she worked really hard, and when she left, she really could sing, and she could sing in tune, and it was lovely, and all of that, and that's the joy, you know, it really is. Because you've got to want it, haven't you? Oh, exactly. Yeah, I mean that you you have and also I think the most important thing is that you you have to want it because there are so many people out there doing it, and you know, you have to improve, you have to be the best that you can be, because there are, you know, there are we can all be replaced. You know, there's always somebody who can do what you can do. Um, so you have to be you have to be good and you have to want to be the best that you can be.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

And do you find that every time you do a performance or you work with someone, it feels fresh, new, that you're doing it like it's the first time you've ever done it, even if you're on a show for for you know 18 years when it comes to cats, that when you do do the performance, that that night can feel like, yeah, but I'm still doing it for the first time that night.

Shaping Taron Egerton’s Voice For Rocketman

SPEAKER_02 25:04

What I always found amazing was with cats, and because I did it so many years, I never went in and felt like, oh, here we go again, I'm just doing another performance. I I felt the energy of every show. And and that that might sound a bit over the top, but it was true. I never went in and felt like I was just going through the routine. Is that the secret though to actually longevity? I think you I I do I do recording sessions and I I sometimes you know there sometimes there are quite a few of us, and I look around, and some people you just think you can see that they're just doing it because they're gonna get paid. With me, yeah, it's great because you get paid sometimes really well, and sometimes not so well. But for me, it's always been about the music, it's always been about the performance because I've always loved it, and that's what I do, that's the prime primary thing with me, and always has been.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

One of the people you coached was for the movie about Elton John, Rocket Man. I in that theatre watching that loved Elton's music over the years, and really loved the actor who played him, Taryn Edgerton. I went into the cinema, I cried my eyes out, and I cried my eyes out because of the vocal performances that Taron did. I felt like this was my soundtrack to my music, my life, and I cried knowing that it wasn't Elton singing, and the work that he put into it was also you, because you were coaching him.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Yeah, well that's that's lovely. Thank you. I mean, what I mean Tara and I had a real bond because it was scary for him, you know. It was probably the most and he would probably say this, I'm sure he would. Um it was probably the scariest thing he'd done because people one of the first things he said is that people are gonna immediately compare me with Elton. And um what we worked on was getting the best out of him and out of his voice. He got very close to Elton and David, and um, and Elton said, I don't want you to sound like me. You don't have to sound like me. Um so we didn't we never went to try and copy everything that Elton did. That's not what we wanted to do. And uh Elton didn't want it. Tarran was relieved, I think, that he didn't have to sound, you know, so that people would say, Oh, that's well, that's Elton singing. You know, it was Tarran, but with the right feel. So everything he sang was was in the right style. Could he sing before? Absolutely. I mean, he'd he'd trained, he trained at Rada and he'd had singing lessons um at Rada, although, you know, with acting courses you don't get much singing, you know, you don't get much um uh singing tuition. But also uh one of the first things that that we worked on was not projecting, because as a music theatre singer, and and he'd done music theatre stuff, is that you project out to the audience, and when you're when you're a pop singer, and particularly with Elton sitting at the piano a lot of the time, it's very conversational. You know, it's just like you and I sitting here and talking now, you know. We're not trying to send it over to the other side of the route. Do you know what I mean? You're just next to each other. And one of the first things I got him to do was to sit down in the in the rehearsal studio that we were working in, sit down at the piano and just sing the song as if he only wanted me to hear it. So it wasn't, I'm not singing to people down the road, I'm not singing in a big concert hall, and he was singing to me, and I was sitting at the other end of the piano. And that was quite a big change because he was used to projecting, and and this meant that he was just singing, you know, it's a little bit fun rather than it's a little bit funny. That's that was the sort of sound that he was used to making, and I was saying, no, no, just so that you and I can hear it. And it that was one of the one of the first things we worked on.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

When you uh see a person who is under probably a lot of pressure as a as an artist like you, but you know, they they're going to go on to uh a film that's gonna be seen by the world. What happens with you? What happens in your mind? Do you you know, do you treat it like every other job, or do you have a sense that this is big? Do you have a sense that Elton is also gonna be judging what you've done with him?

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Uh it's in your mind. You don't I think it's all about that, you know, just the aim is always to do the best job. You know, it's not about, oh, this is gonna be seen, you know, in cinemas around the world. You don't think that. You just want, I wanted him to do the best job he could, like I always want to do the best job I can as a singer, you know, and as a and as a vocal coach, you know. Um that's the primary aim. It's not it's not about oh, this has got to be right because it's gonna be seen in, you know, Idaho or you know, wherever, Sydney. Um it's it's about just making the making the best, you know. How long did you work together on it? Well, before he did the film, we we worked for about six months um and quite regularly as well. Yeah, it's yeah, he had to work, he had to work very he had to work very hard, you know, and be very focused, you know. He's a hard worker and he's he's very determined. So Did you watch the film? I did. I I mean I knew what was gonna happen, do you know what I mean? But but um yeah, I was very I was very moved, like you. I was I was very moved just to see him there just doing such a great job. And to know also that it was all him. It was his voice. It wasn't there was no nobody else came in. They didn't use any of Elton's voice, they didn't um it was just it was just Tarron. All of his vocals were what we'd worked on and how we'd worked on them, and it was him singing. Because there are other films uh where a similar thing, I'm not gonna name other films, but there are other films where other people's voices have been used and fed into the sound, and that did not happen with with Taron. It was all Taron's own vocals.

Recording For Film: Abbey Road And Lord Of The Rings

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Your voice is heard staying with movies for a moment in quite a lot of films, and people may not even have an idea of this part of how filmmaking works. You know, we go and we watch, I'm just gonna throw one out there: the Lord of the Rings type of films and all of those, and you are often part of that soundtrack. Yeah, can you take us into that part of the world of Michael Dore and how you you know, do you get a phone call?

SPEAKER_02 32:42

What happens is that uh a lot of the studio work comes through uh what they call fixers, which is like an agent. Um, but an agent will put people up for a particular thing. A fixer will be asked to provide a singer or loads of singers, and what happened with Lord of the Rings, it was one of the biggest teams I've ever sung in. I think there were 60 of us or something, and um and that was uh great. I mean, we did all of the Lord of the Rings films we did at Abbey Road, Abbey Road 1, um, and um with John Williams conducting, and there were loads of us. That like I say, there was about 60 of us. Let's be clear about that. This is 60 of the best performers ultimately in the world. Yeah, yeah, I mean, because because England is known, is known for its choral tradition, so there were a lot of people out there. Um and you know, I've I've been lucky to do lots of great solo work in in studio sessions, but singing as part of a team, I love that as well. I was in the Swingle Singers, that was one of the first things I did, which was an eight-part vocal group, you know, with just we were one to a part. And that being part of a team is is special, is is really special. And being part of a big sound as well, um, what used to what a fixer will do is that they will provide whatever is required. And then what Terry Edwards did the fixing for London Voices, uh, which is now run by Ben Parry, um, because we sadly lost Terry, but um Terry was uh would provide what was what was required, um, and we'd we'd do a session and we'd get something filled, we'd get something recorded, and then at the end of that session, he'd say, Right, um there's another session on Friday at two o'clock, two until five, who can do it? Just let me know if you can't do it. And then what would happen is that you know somebody was like, Oh no, I've got to do something else, you know, I've got to pick the kids up or whatever it is. And so he would replace that person for that session, and then what would happen at the end of that session, that following session, is he would ask the same people, and then if somebody couldn't do the next session, then they would have to be replaced for the next session. So what you always tried to do was not miss one of the sessions. Though I remember it happening once, and um, and so I missed the session because I was doing something else. But then the following session, somebody else that was at Baritone couldn't do it, so I got back in again. So I think in all of the Lord of the Rings films, I I think I only missed two sessions. I was very lucky to keep in there. So I did all, yeah, I did all of the Lord of the Rings films.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

That kind of ethereal sound that comes from something like Lord of the Rings and that choral moment where it's either emotion or tension. I want you to take us into Abbey Roads. I've been lucky enough to go to Abbey Road studios with different artists for different reasons over the years, and it is obviously amazing. You walk through the door, you immediately get, yes, of course, the Beatles, you get all of that feeling of what the place is. But when you're physically in the studio and you've got John Williams conducting and you are there, what does that feel like?

SPEAKER_02 36:08

I think it it's the same pressure, and although there are a lot of you, you you don't want to you don't want to sing in a gap. Do you know what I mean? You don't want to be the one that goes, ha! In in in when it shall be silent. Um so there is the pressure, but but you know, and what was great about those sessions was that the orchestra's there at the same time, so it's not just a choral session put on top of the orchestral pre-recorded stuff, which is how we do it normally. Normally we do the vocal stuff separately and then it's put onto the recorded orchestral um recording. But John did everything at the same time, and what was exciting about that was that he would do it to the screen. You know, it wasn't all mechanical, you know, with streamers, he wasn't looking at a screen saying, right, you need to put this here and you need to put that there, you know. He would just be watching the film and he would conduct the orchestra and the singers to what he saw live on the screen, as it were, you know, at that moment. And um, because he knew it, he knew what he'd written, he he just it just fitted, so it was very live, you know, it was very, it was very real.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

I always feel really moved by those kind of movies, these adventury type stories, you know, and for me, in every single movie I've ever watched, and I'm sure for a lot of people listening, the music makes it.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

With the ethereal stuff, it's it's textural, so you don't want we don't want people in the in the cinemas to go, oh I can hear the singing now, oh the singing's very lovely, and not watch the film. It had it that's the mark of a good composer is making it so that it it creates whatever emotion you want, you would to help the emotion, but not to get in the way so you stop watching the film and start listening to the music. You know, very often people are not really aware of what goes on and what is recorded, and they they're not sitting in the cinema thinking, oh, I think there may be 60 singers there, or you know. You feel it, yeah, because it's created, but it's it doesn't get in the way of watching the film, you know, and that's the most important thing.

Skyfall With Adele And Beyond

SPEAKER_00 38:22

But being part of the movies has has been something you've been doing for quite a while, Michael, and uh one of the big pieces, and we talk about how different uh the vocal can sound, whether it's something ethereal to something dramatic or a real mix of all things, really, Skyfall. Uh the James Bond movie, Daniel Craig, Judy Dench, a Scottish Castle, and a lot of other action going on. Um and really the end actually of the Broccoli family connection with movies, I guess, relating to Bond as it now moves as we're talking to Amazon. When was Skyfall first part of your working life?

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Well, I um I I did the original um the original recording with Adele. Um just four boys. We turned up at Abbey Road. Um, I mean it was quite a long time ago now, and um I knew who Adele was, but she became even bigger and more mega um later on. But um I remember turning up at the studio um to record the back in vocals, nothing had been written. She'd recorded her track in the afternoon um with Paul Epsworth, who's uh who she writes with, um, and is her producer, and uh I was the first of the four boys to arrive, so I walked up the stairs in in Abbey Road 2. Um, I worked in Abbey Road 2 and won many times, but I walked up the stairs and she was just sitting in the in the um control room and I and I went, Oh hello, um I'm Michael, and she went, Oh hello, I'm Adele. And I was thinking, oh my god, you're Adele. Because she didn't look, she didn't look like what I thought Adele looked like. Um anyway, she said, I don't know what I don't know what you're gonna do because she said, I haven't written anything. She said, I just remember um Ray Charles on his recording, you know, the old, old, brilliant uh singer and musician, um, Ray Charles. He used to have like, you know, like three or four singers going whatever in the background. Anyway, we made the backing vocals up in the studio. We just said, Well, why don't we do an echo? You know, she goes, Let the sky fall, and we went, Let the sky fall, blah blah blah. But you know, it just echoed what she did. And then we created a bit of harmony stuff and all of that. And then they added some other voice voices to it later on, but initially it was just the four of us, just the four boys. So I did I did that, that was great. And then when I made my own album last year, Who Am I? Uh, I decided to include Skyfall on that album.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

And I must say, uh, I I listened to that album again and again uh when you first gave me a copy of it. It's beautiful to hear your voice on these very familiar pieces, but also your own just sound, you know, um, because a lot of the time, you know, you might be accompanying, you might be part of a choral side, but you have your own uh story too, and and and that's lovely to hear that. But it's got almost like a uh a bit of an ongoing legacy, isn't it? Because Skyfall keeps coming back. Yeah, Skyfall the movie has ended, but the Skyfall you know story continues. Well, what's happening?

SPEAKER_02 41:37

I mean, I I've done it in in my own gigs now. Um, and I and uh it was only a couple of weeks ago um I went for a session uh with Josh Groben, and um one of the two tracks that there were just a handful of us doing back-in vocals for him, and uh one of the tracks was Skyfall.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Were you like, this is not leaving me this, it's almost like cats.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

Well it is a bit, it's a bit like it's a sort of it keeps coming back, and um it was funny because in the studio, you know, you never like to sort of slow a session down, and uh, you know, because time is money and all of that. But I I looked at the music and I thought that's wrong. Uh it was the lyric had been put down as um um at the sky fall, and and I said, I'm sorry to stop things, and I said it's let the sky fall. Let the sky fall, let the sky fall, and it was it's been written as at the sky fall. So we changed that. And they must have been really glad you did, because if you hadn't caught it. No, exactly, it would have gone out incorrectly. So um, but in a in a studio situation like that, you never want to stick your head too much above the parapet, you know, because they think, oh, who's this, you know? Yeah, know all. Do you know what I mean? And I so I thought about it for a minute, and I thought, well, maybe they've written it like that, they want to do it like that. And in fact, in one section, Josh's ps the lyric that he sings is something about at the sky fall. He says something a little at the sky fall. So with that one, we left as at the sky fall and then just changed the others. Because people will in the session, sometimes they'll they'll say, Oh, do you think it's this should be something like this? And and and you go, Oh, do you really need to say that? Because it waste time.

Range, Adaptability, And Loving The Work

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Um, you know, and and and time is money. You work with lots of performers as uh in your career, Michael. Um Kylie uh backing vocals for her, and that was for her Christmas album, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Yes. Well, it was for her first Christmas album, because I think she's recently done a second Christmas album. I wasn't invited for that. Um but yeah, I sang I sang on the first I sang on the first Christmas album.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Um yeah, she was lovely, she was great. And the difference with the different types of work, because backing vocals uh earlier in this series of talking, uh Tessa Niles, who I know you know, um, was t talking to us about you know her story. Story of working with pop stars over the years, and whether it's um, you know, from Sting to David Bowie with LiveAid and all the rest. But that kind of experience of different elements of the job. It seems to me from this conversation we've had that you get to do it all. Theatre, movies, your own work, choral, orchestras, classical, all of this coming together. That must be so, I guess, varied, but a lot of hard work. I'm almost imagining the hours and hours of work.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Well, I all I I trained classically, but I always loved pop and music theatre and jazz and contemporary music, and I just I loved all of it. Um and I, you know, I I think the reason I've kept working all of these decades is because I can I can, you know, I wouldn't say I'm the greatest at any of them, but I can adapt. And and that's why I've kept working, I think, because I can go in and do a pop session, or I can do a classical session, or I can do a you know, contemporary music theatre session, whatever. And I know the styles because I listened, and that's why I always say to people that I work with, students, um just listen, listen to the style and get it in your head. And I and I I think it you know it takes us back to you know my early days as a kid listening to music. Mum and dad played music, but they listened to music as well. Uh, and at school, you know, I did my classical stuff with my head of music, you know, Neville Turner. He he introduced me to all sorts of classical music that I wouldn't have known about, you know. So I understood different styles of music, and it's that has really helped me as a as a singer.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

And as a singer, is singing as we sit here in your home in Broadstairs, is it reserved for uh work only? Or do you just sing to yourself in the kitchen, Michael?

SPEAKER_02 46:05

Um it's funny, I was I was only thinking about this this morning. I was thinking, I don't actually sing in the shower very often. No, I do sing, I do sing for fun. Yeah, absolutely. Um in some in some way, I sometimes think, you know, when I'd speak to people, they say, Oh, well I don't know whether to do it as a as a profession. I say, well, you've got to want to do it as a profession, you know. Otherwise, do something else and just do it, do it for fun if you know, for enjoyment. Because I know some people, some people that I worked with, they don't seem to do it for the fun anymore. And I found this with instrumentalists as well, um, that you think, do you really love this? I mean, I'm so pleased that I love it. I I still love it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

And do you have out of all of the songs, not just songs you perform, but just songs in life that you've listened to, is there one song that you is yours? It's your song, the song you love.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Ooh, that's a tricky one. A lovely song called If I Never Sing Another Song. I don't know whether you know that song.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Uh it goes, If I never sing another song, it wouldn't bother me. I've had my share of fame. You know my name.

The Song That Says It All

SPEAKER_02 47:34

That really relates to me because you know, um, it starts with in my heyday uh young girls wrote to me, everybody seemed to have time to devote to me. And it's all about being a performer, doing your stuff. Um, and you you're saying, well, you know, if it if it stopped, I would get I would get by if I didn't do it anymore, but I don't know how. And that's I think that's probably really how I feel about it, you know. If it if it stopped, I don't I don't know how I would cope. Do you know what I mean? Because it's always been part of my life, you know.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Michael Dawr, thank you for being on Talking. Thank you. Pleasure. The music for this podcast is composed by Johnny Easton. I'm Dominic King. Talking is a laughing frog production.