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Daily American
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Bekah Slider is a Confidence & Authenticity Coach, Speaker & Host of the Podcast “The Courage to Fully Live”. Slider is an ex-pastor who walked away from ministry, religion and unsupportive beliefs, in order to find, fall in love with, and live as her true self. She now helps ambitious humans build unshakable confidence, liberate their expression & create a life they’re lit the f*ck up by.
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Stay tuned next week for Part 2...
A 501C3 to combat the mental health struggles which come with service to the United States
Info@dailyamericanpodcast.com
Welcome back to Daily American guys. Today we have with us Becca Slider Becca welcome.
Speaker 2:Thanks, happy to be here with you, dan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a little bit of technical difficulties, because I'm always ill-prepared, but I appreciate your patience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not a problem?
Speaker 1:Yeah, why don't you let the audience know you know where you were born and a little bit about your childhood?
Speaker 2:I was born in New London, Connecticut. Actually, my dad was in the Navy. Didn't stay there long.
Speaker 1:So you were a brat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, temporarily. He got out not long after I was born, I believe, so I didn't really experience the military life growing up. Yeah soon after that to virginia beach.
Speaker 1:So I actually grew up in virginia beach, not in connecticut which is even, and how far are you from there now, because I know you're from virginia, right?
Speaker 2:always I'm in, yeah, I'm in ohio.
Speaker 1:So nice land, ohio that's right I always think yeah, I always get confused, that's right. Oh hi, what brought you there? Family?
Speaker 2:no, originally um work, work related stuff okay, what do, you do for work now.
Speaker 1:And is it rebecca or is it becca? Is it becca or?
Speaker 2:either. I typically introduce myself as becca. Rebecca doesn't bother me either, though okay, it seems more formal, but it doesn't bother me to be called. Yeah, um, what do I do for work? So I, I do a few different things. I am a speaker and I'm a coach, so those are my two main things, and I have a podcast. Yeah, the courage to fully live. So it's.
Speaker 1:I relate, Like she's on point, with exactly what she's saying, Like everybody should be paying attention and listening to you because you're right. I mean earlier in your video I was watching being about being your authentic self and how it's like. Dude, nobody does that, especially in the social media world. Nobody can be like themselves. It's just a facade that they want people to perceive and it's jacked up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's jacked up and it's also so conditioned. I think it's so conditioned inside of us and then, when you get used to that, the fear of what other people think has become so great at that point. Because there's a point for most of us when we were, you know, you see, like two-year-olds, they don't give two fucks about what people think they're out there ruling the world.
Speaker 2:But there's a point for all of us like we start giving a fuck and then, depending on what family you grew up in and the culture you're in and where you live and if you're in church or whatever, like that all plays a role into how much you should care. And it's not like people say that it's not like although maybe some people do, but a lot of times you're not hearing like you need to care about what people think. It's so much more subtle in the way that it's delivered, subtle in the way that it's delivered, and it's so much sounds so much more practical and logical of like, yeah, you need to present yourself this way so that you know people will take you seriously, or things like that. And so long before you can ever even get to know you figure out what you like and how you're wired and how you want to show up and express yourself in the world, you're already being conditioned to fit in a box. So of course, course people don't know how to be their authentic self.
Speaker 1:Right. So what led? What led like? Because I feel like I'm in the midst of this, if not the beginning stages of figuring shit out, and, like you know, I look, I look around and I see, like all these people who are at the high school you know, not all of these, but a good amount went to high school they're already on like their second marriage and they're 35, 36 years old my age and it's like no wonder because again, more, uh, like society just pushing all these norms onto people. You better get married, you know, if you're, if you're 30, you better start having kids, or you know you're going to be alone your whole life and like, just like you know all this nonsense and it lands people in bad situations. So that's where you know I'm at. What led you to this journey? Like, how did you figure this out?
Speaker 2:oh well, I have always, for my entire life, loved to ask the question why, like even when I was a kid, I had a very authoritative controlling home environment and I didn't. I didn't get it. I didn't understand the rules, I didn't know, know why things were happening, and I always questioned everything and that was not approved of. I did it anyway, and so I think just having that type of personality was probably beneficial to me in leading me back to myself. But, honestly, that journey really didn't happen until I deconstructed all of like religious beliefs and things that kept me in my own personal box of who I thought I was supposed to be. And if you would have asked me 10 years ago if I was living true to myself, I would have told you yes, because I would have believed that that was the truest version of myself, because it was in the context of the box I lived in, if that makes sense. Like I'm being as true as I can with the things that I believe at this point, but really, once I started pulling back the layers of like, why do I believe anything Like, and not just specifically religion, I mean just all the things Like? You hit just a second ago on the idea of marriage and having kids and all that these societal norms that we're again programmed with they're all around us of. Like this is what a good life is, this is what you should aspire to do or be or have.
Speaker 2:And yet people get those things and they do those things and they're still not happy because they actually don't. Did they do them for themselves, or did they do them because they were actually told that was like what would make them happy? So it's pulling back, starting to ask really hard questions, really hard fucking questions to myself. It was actually an extremely painful process to get to the core of like why do I believe what I believe? What do I actually want to believe?
Speaker 2:Like, if nobody told me what to believe and I didn't have to believe it. Like, what do I want to believe? What do I really like and want that I've been denying myself because I think it's wrong or bad or I've been told it's not acceptable. And then you learn all that shit about yourself. But then it's like the real courage comes, because now you've got to have the courage to start stepping toward that, and that means all the people who have had their idea of how you are, how you show up who you are like, you're about to give them a run for their money, and most of them are not going to like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it, yeah, yeah, I mean that's. Yeah, you're 100 right? Um, I can attest to that just because, like I used to just post my social media pictures of vacation, you know, when I bought my house, just all nice, little like dandy, little like accomplishments or whatever, just like pretty much all good things and nothing ever been. And then, like I came out with this podcast, blah, blah, blah, and I still was like kind of doing that, just all good stuff, but not like anything real, like positive like.
Speaker 1:But these people come on they and they talk about their true stories and shit, and it's just like, yeah, like who am I to just sit there and pretend like everything's like unkey dory. So then, like you know, I'm trying to become I think it was. It's still way more authentic than even in the very beginning. It's more authentic than most people's like I'm not doing it for for for that reason or whatever. But now I think it's getting like more and more authentic because I don't, I'm starting not to give a fuck. But it's still so hard, becca, it's really hard not to give a fuck with what like everybody's thinking, especially when, like you're getting kind of bad feedback from, like those that are like close to you and I'm just like yo shut the fuck up, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I feel like that's the most common theme is that that's who you get the worst feedback from and that's who we're scared of their opinions the most. Those are the whose expectations we try to appease the most. It's all the people who are closest to us, and the thing that has always sat in the back of my mind is there's a quote, and I don't know who said it, otherwise I'd give them credit but basically it's this idea of if people are loving a version of you that's just to appease them or just to make them feel good about themselves the way you act, then they're not really loving you. Who are they actually loving?
Speaker 2:Right, if you become authentically you and you decide to do whatever, whatever that means and I I take the theme of, like you know, do no harm. So it's not like this energy of do whatever the fuck you want and it shitty things. I just mean like things that are true to you and other people don't like it. It makes them uncomfortable. Well, they can either love the true, authentic version of you or they were never loving you to begin with, and then it's like what kind of acceptance and approval was that anyway? So do I really want that I would rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not. That's the quote.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really, that's just a perfect quote. Yeah, that's a really, that's just a perfect quote. Now, did you like subaltern this like this is there like a word for becoming your authentic self? Is there like or like, a psychology behind it? Because it seems like every time I I don't know I listen to you, I'm like fuck, like she's got something. I don't know exactly what, what it's titled or anything. Is there like a title to it? Uh I think there's a lot of different words probably used.
Speaker 2:Self-actualization is is one of the words I've seen thrown around a lot, but it's it. I think people, I think there is kind of a wake-up call happening in our generation, like where people are starting to question everything, and I think for many generations they never felt permission to question everything. You just go along with it, you do the thing, you move along, and I think I mean the internet. You can't lie like that helped a ton right, create so much out there where you had access to other people questioning things, and so you start questioning, questioning, questioning and what I think what people find out is like you can do all the blaming and all the shit you want, but at the end of the day, everything comes down to this relationship with yourself. Everything. It's the foundation of everything.
Speaker 2:You want to look at why you know the dopamine fixes don't work because they're all external. It's like, oh, make me feel good about myself. Tell me these wonderful things, say this stuff. If I get like you know this review or this testimonial, then I'll feel good. It doesn't fucking last.
Speaker 2:The only thing sustainable is when we actually go back to like why do we need that? We wouldn't need that if we actually felt those things already about ourselves, if we were grounded and secure in our value and our worth, apart from other people's opinions and we don't need them, they're great Doesn't mean we don't want them and they're not fun to have. But we're not living in this constant data. Please, please, people, make me feel good. We don't fucking need it. That's power right there to not need it. To know you're good with you, like no matter what, not in an ego way, like yeah, I'm good with me, fuck you very much. In a sincere like no, like I'm actually at peace with myself. I'm not going to sit in reactive mode. I know how to regulate my nervous system and like people can lose their shit and I'm just like, okay, that's your choice, you can stay over there in your bubble and I'm going to stay over here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why you're crushing it. I wish I was like I wish I, yeah, I wish I was there, but there, but you know, I'm not anywhere near there, but it's, it's what would you say? You're like not. Would you say you're 100 there, or is it a consistent incline?
Speaker 2:and like you're definitely like you gotta you better be the 90s, because if you're not the 90s, I might as well just give up right now well, I I think that's probably where we're always looking to like hit this attainable mark, this goal, this accomplishment, and if that's always what we're looking for, we're like always in this state of lack. It's not enough. And then, as you can probably think about times in your life where you've made like crazy accomplishments, things that you've checked off the box and it was awesome and you felt great for a minute, and then, like within a week, within a month at the most, you're like, ok, well, next thing, next thing, like what's next, versus staying in this state of like consistent, like shit. This is amazing. So my point is just even when it comes to this level of authenticity right, and getting to know yourself and love yourself and and redefining your life, self and redefining your life, there's no, there's no like end, it's just a journey. Authenticity it doesn't have an end, it just has a journey, because even who I am today, right now, in this moment, I will be someone different in five years, probably even five months, because I'm just continuing to evolve. So I don't really look at it as like yeah, I'm like in the 90%. I celebrate wherever I am, even when and this was a really important part of my journey, even when I felt like I had only taken like two steps forward and 20 steps back. I celebrate the things that I had done.
Speaker 2:I focus on the things that have been going right, because you celebrate what you want to see more of. We are so good at criticizing what we don't want, and you know what that does. It puts focus on what we don't want, and you know what you get. When you focus on what you don't want, you get more of what you don't fucking want. When you celebrate what you want to see more of, you celebrate it, and it doesn't mean like not taking into consideration that you want to shift some things and do some new things. It's just like no, I'm going to fucking celebrate that I had that win today, that normally I would have reacted this way and I didn't. I'm going to start celebrating those things. When you do that, you rewire your brain. It's literally neurological shit going on that actually helps you look for more ways to act in that way, more ways to experience that again. So you literally start training your brain.
Speaker 1:You start training your behaviors yeah, something I'm not very good at. I don't ever celebrate anything. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people are like that, but no small wins or anything like that. It's like the next time I'll celebrate is probably like when I surpass where I was financially. It always comes down to like money for some reason and probably because I grew up with none, but when I surpassed where I was, you know, when I was making pretty good money, like a few months ago, but that fucking doesn't mean anything, I anything, the same exact shit that I do now. Like the money had nothing, like the status of the money had nothing to do with anything. It doesn't. I'm happier today than I was then by far. Um, and things are going like you know, things aren't going like great, but it's like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I've at least learned something out of this whole like situation I'm in recently. But I don't yeah, I don't celebrate any small wins. I just feel like a of like, almost like a failure if I do. Because why like? Why would I celebrate this podcast that I just did with you? Because, hey, it's a pod, like I put myself out there that I'm going to do podcast. So I'm just doing what I'm supposed to do and b I'm not that good at it anyway. So like what the fuck? Like what sort of celebrate? But in all reality, you know, I could have like been sleeping or something, or canceled for some for some reason, and, like you know it, that would have been the wrong decision. I would have felt worse in that scenario, but I I didn't. You know, it's not like I celebrate shit, so so so yeah.
Speaker 2:You got to think about this idea of like oh, I don't celebrate shit because, oh, it's just what I'm supposed to do anyway. How does that feel? How did that energy feel to think that way?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it feels like does make you there's never going to. Just, I just got a new car the car, just like you were saying earlier, like these, these things that we're all excited about them, and then literally it's been two weeks and I don't even give a shit. I kind of miss my old car, you know it's like it's, it's, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Well, everything we want, we want for a feeling, we want for the feeling it will give us, and so what's happening, though, is, instead of practicing that feeling before we even have the things, and just living in those states of feelings, we are only waiting for it to come. It's coming, we're feeling that temporarily, and then the feeling goes because we don't know how to live in a state of joy, in a state of peace, in a state of abundance, in a state of celebration, in a state of like, of like, seeing the beauty everywhere around us, staying in gratitude. We don't know how to do that. We need again this goes to the external of like, what I was talking about external validation, like make me feel good. It's like we want everything else to happen so that we can feel a certain way.
Speaker 2:I want the new car so I can feel whatever, but the truth is that you just made such a great point, you, you, the car came, yeah, you liked it, and now you're just like eh, whatever, like it, it didn't day, and it actually didn't matter. And so, if that's the case, and you know that it's not going to sustain the feelings like, what feelings do you want to have and how can you give them to you regularly? Well, one of the ways you can give yourself better feelings is by practicing celebration, and you do it in little ways, because when you start, you already told me enough information for me to know you're going to be like this feels stupid as shit. I don't want to say why am I selling?
Speaker 2:You already give me enough information that I know that's how you would start. First of all, just know most people start that way. Most people are like this is awkward as fuck. I don't want to do this. This doesn't feel natural. Yeah, it's only because it's unfamiliar. You know, it's wild is that when little kids are little they're like two years old and they're like they fucking take one step.
Speaker 1:We're like you know, like maybe I'm like one year old.
Speaker 2:When they do that and we're so excited for them, Like they took one fucking step and then they fell back down the war and you know what happens. They're like shit, yeah, this is amazing, I can do this again. They get excited. There's something that happens neurologically, but we stopped doing that. Right, A kid comes home with a decent grade a lot of times older. They're like, yeah, that's good Kind of expect that. I mean, that was my house. I came home with straight A's one time. I'll never forget. Two times in my entire childhood I came home with straight A's. That was it and it.
Speaker 2:And it was like I was so excited because performance-driven behavior was the performance-driven approval was the only thing in my house. My dad said, yeah, all right, well, I expected that of you. There was never a celebration. There was never this like oh my gosh, you didn't make, it was nothing, it was never good enough because the bar was perfection and nobody can fucking be perfect. So, like you, just it didn't happen. And even when I thought straight A's was perfect, it was like no, it's not right, Like it just doesn't exist, Like you're just never good enough. So that was my story. My story was and still will come up never good enough, never good enough, never fucking good enough.
Speaker 2:And so to combat that and that's most people's stories, A lot of people have that similar story but to combat that is work. And here's the thing People don't want to do the fucking work to like dig into that shit. And I get it, because you have to actually like go inside and actually feel things. You have to feel some shitty feelings. The craziest part is that you can handle the feelings we think we can't, but you just form a relationship with discomfort. We do it with physical pain. I bet if I told you especially even men, especially men, but women too like, oh, like, can you push through this physical pain? Women have fucking babies, Men have like natural physiological strength and like can push through a lot of stuff physically right. And it's like, yeah, I can fucking do that, I'll deal with that, I'll push through the discomfort, I'll get familiar with the discomfort. But damn, do we avoid the discomfort of our fucking feelings? And that is what keeps us stuck. That's it. That's the real truth of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean. So many people I know are in this exact situation, just numbing their feelings or drowning them or whatever, just pushing them down, because a lot of times you know like your example. So I have a question for you, becca when you went out with your father, say he would have did the complete opposite and like celebrated that win and positively reinforced it, rather than kind of just like it was expected, somebody that grew up like that, how would they be different than somebody like you know?
Speaker 2:us. I think they're probably less uncomfortable with celebrating their wins. They're less uncomfortable with giving themselves credit, less uncomfortable with being optimistic of like, no, like. I feel like there would be at least some greater level of confidence in themselves Because from a young age they were being affirmed about their worth and their value. And now that sounds almost like it contradicts what I said earlier about the external in.
Speaker 2:But when you're a kid, you need that. You don't know any better. You're a child. You need to have your parents telling you you're fucking valuable shit. Not even because you're a kid, you need that. You don't know any better. You're a child. You need to have your parents telling you you're fucking valuable shit. Not even because you're my kid.
Speaker 2:Just because you're a human and you're alive, you are valuable. Your life has purpose and value. Like celebrating all the things they do, not just their performance, because that's the other thing. If only the way they behave and perform is celebrated, they will still find all their value through the way they behave and perform, not just in being a human, just having innate divine worth as a human. And we all need that, because we're all gonna have fucked up days or fucked up weeks or fucked up seasons of our life and we need to know that if we're fucking jacked up on drugs and laid out for a week like our value didn't change, our value didn't change because it's not something that can be given or it can't be taken Like neither.
Speaker 2:Neither is true. It's innate, it's from the beginning, it always will be. It cannot be taken away and we cannot do more to make ourselves more valuable. We already are and so I want to differentiate that, because a kid who grows up with their value and being celebrated only for performance and like oh, you did all this, you're so great, we're going to celebrate all this, and not just like I just want to celebrate you as a human being. You Like you're amazing, your laughter is fantastic, your smile is great, like I just love being around you, you're just a wonderful human is like a deeper celebratory expression of a human and of their value. And I think those two would also be different humans growing up right Like different adults with different particular issues and more confidence Does that make?
Speaker 1:sense? Yeah, it does. That was a perfect answer. Yeah, Back to what you were saying about like the man. Like the man, you didn't say the word man, but pretty much you were touching on like how, as men, it's even harder for us to, you know, feel emotions and process situations and stuff.
Speaker 1:I was talking to my buddy last night. I haven't spoken to him in like a little while. I'm like what's going on with this guy? He had a girlfriend and they were getting really close. I don't know if I should be telling the story. I'm not going to dive into anything personal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he was just like I was like dude, I'm here, and I said something like nice to him and while I was saying it I was like is this authentic? Like I feel like I'm like being like softy, like reach. So, anyhow, I was like dude, just you, if you need anything, I'm always around. If you just want to talk about it, it sounds like probably like the biggest like pussy thing ever. Though if he's, you know, I don't know it's just, but it's not.
Speaker 1:Though that's the thing, that's what like my brain wants me to think, because that's what I'm used to thinking. But you know, and then, and then afterwards if I said I said, bro, honestly, like I know that sounds like a, like a I didn't say feminine or anything Like somehow girls got brought up and then I was like I know that sounds like real, like cheesy for me to say something like that, but in all reality, like women are so much stronger than like men and they are Like not only, I think, like mentally they are, but in certain like aspects of pain, like giving birth they say that's like the most painful shit ever and certainly aspects of pain like giving birth they say that's like the most painful shit ever.
Speaker 1:So I mean I don't know Our perception of those two I mean mine is at least skewed, like you know.
Speaker 2:Right, it's hard to say. I mean I did have my third child at home with no pain meds. It was fucking horrible.
Speaker 1:But it was great.
Speaker 2:I don't regret it, but it was horrible.
Speaker 1:The pain was horrible. The pain was horrible, yeah sure, yeah sure. It was super painful. I don't know, becky, you're definitely onto something. So what's next in this? So so what do you do for fun?
Speaker 2:what I do for fun. I dance a lot. I love dancing. I do a lot of latin dancing like salsa, bachata. But I like all sorts of dancing. I say all sorts and I'm like that sounds like I'm in ballroom and all this shit. I don't't really do any of that. It's more like club type dancing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you get down.
Speaker 2:I love, I just love it, I love. I've always loved dancing, but I grew up like you said, you grew up with no money, same. So I was number two of five kids and my mom was at home almost my entire childhood as a stay-at-home mom and then I just worked I don't know like three jobs, maybe just to keep us or head above water, and was too proud to be on welfare ever.
Speaker 1:Same. I agree with you, Dad. I mean, I'll eat ramen noodles if I have to, but yeah, yeah, it is what it is.
Speaker 2:But because of that, like there was, there was, of course there was no like I can't go to dance, like I wasn't going to be in dance, that cost a ton of money, and so I would uh, I have two younger sisters and I would. I would turn on like mariah carey and whitney houston songs and I'd take them out in the driveway and be like, hey, I choreographed this piece I need you to learn it with me so we can do it together.
Speaker 1:And would they follow suit, would they listen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially like the one right below me, Sarah. She would dance with me quite a bit, yeah, which I appreciated. Are you still?
Speaker 1:close with all of your sisters.
Speaker 2:No, I'm only out. Of the four siblings I have, I'm close with one. I don't talk to the others really at all.
Speaker 1:It's such a shame, bill, but like I see that in my life like starting to to happen as well, it's like I don't know what the hell happens, like I don't, I really don't get it. I really don't get it. But it's like the older I get, or the more I open my eyes to like what's going on in regards to my family. It's makes me want to fucking run in the other direction. And, you know, it seems like you're in a similar situation. Do you talk to your, your parents?
Speaker 2:not really no, maybe once or twice a year yeah, that's just yeah.
Speaker 1:It's crazy because probably because you know alignments on what they think you should be doing versus what you're doing and like or whatever.
Speaker 1:Just judgment, pretty much Like those that are supposed to be close to you and love you unconditionally just want to fucking judge you because you're not following the same like path that they think is the right path, but they could be on the wrong, the completely wrong track. Yeah, I want to talk about the religion with you as well, because that's that's another big thing. Like you got these so many christians out there, right, you're a christian, but like you know you're sitting there, you're losing your temper, just like you know my father or even whoever growing up. Catholic, you're believing in christ. You're. This man was like a man of love. Catholic you're believing in Christ. This man was like a man of love, and all you're doing is spewing hate around the households. What the fuck am I supposed to believe? You know I didn't take the approach, but what do you think?
Speaker 1:What's going on with the religion? How'd you grow up religious-wise? Actually, you know what we're going to take a break and then we're going gonna come right back, if that's okay with you. Is that okay? All right, sounds good. I just did that real quick, just so I know. Yeah, but I'll edit this part out. But, becky, do you mind talking about religion? Not at all. All right, do you god? Yeah, all right, perfect. How did you grow up catholic?
Speaker 2:no, okay, funny, funny little side note. My mother was Catholic. She grew up Catholic in the boondocks of Wisconsin on a farm. One of 11 children and my father was Lutheran grew up with a dad in the military, harsh man. He ended up being a Lutheran minister. So my dad actually converted to Catholicism to marry my mother, because you know that's what you have to do to be in.
Speaker 2:I don't know, anyway, but I guess they went to Catholic mass for a while. My dad would ask the priest questions and then the priest was like you don't talk to me, I talk to God. I tell you what God says. And he didn't like that. You wonder where I get my like rebellious attitude from. And then they left the church. So then they very soon after started going to some non-denominational church this was when I was very little and they got saved. Right, because I say that in quotations, because in Catholicism that's not a thing, this is more of an evangelical type approach right, you get saved. So they got saved. We moved to Virginia Beach and I was, as a child, a part of several church plants. So there it's now. It is a denomination, I believe, but it's called Vineyard, but it was. It was a non-denominational church at the time. So I grew up in a yeah there. I mean believe in the gifts of the spirit, all that stuff.
Speaker 1:What's a plant church? Like a church that's just starting out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a church plant is just like a new baby church and so typically they start in like they'll rent a school, like on Sundays public schools aren't used, so public schools will typically allow you to rent like their cafeteria out and you can move all the chairs and set up chairs, because most churches, like the Vineyard and the other churches I went to, they always had a band for worship so it was like a whole set, you know, a drum set, like a guitar player, a bass player, all of that stuff for the song, for like praise, praise and worship. So they'd set that up, put the chairs out. I mean, they used a lot of schools until they could raise the funds to get their own building. So that's a church plant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, side note real quick. Just speaking of church plants, this universal religion that I don't know if I've watched a brief documentary on it, but whatever, I was driving in the city of philly and I saw one of the churches you know, they have like um, like basically, imagine like nine inch nails or like some heavy metal screamy, like death music, but that's the church band and, like you know, I just think that's, that's odd as hell. But then there's other people that probably think, you know, there's other people that probably think that, like you know, the contemporary, I like the contemporary, like christian rock or what have you, but some people think that's weird as hell. The catholics can't stand that because it's like new age and like there's just so much like I'm being judgy when I say that. But again, these plants that just pop up out of yeah and they're doing yeah, it's all these followers just follow.
Speaker 1:It's like that was just a little side note yeah, no it's.
Speaker 2:I mean it's very interesting. And, yes, judgment throughout all the denominations and, uh, cultish behavior in many churches. Not gonna lie, I've been in the back end of church. So the ministry side, the leadership side, because not only was I part of church plants, my parents were part of leadership in church almost my entire childhood. My dad actually was a pastor at one point. So that's what I'm talking about the back end.
Speaker 1:And this was for non-denominational, uh-huh.