Benefit or Betrayal | Jane Babcock S.O.S. #258

Are veterans gaming the system, or are we trapped in a shallow debate that ignores the law, the medicine, and the lived reality of service? We dig into the difference between media narratives and VA standards with guest Jane Babcock—Army and Army Reserve retiree, former accredited county veteran service officer, and a relentless advocate who’s helped file over 1,200 claims.

We start by clarifying what disability compensation really is: payment for lost earning capacity tied to service-connected conditions, not a ban on work. From there, we break down presumptive conditions like ALS, the overlooked wartime pension, and why “equipoise” requires raters to side with veterans when evidence is evenly balanced. Jane shares a powerful case where MOS duties and OSHA data linked a young non-smoker’s aggressive cancer to specific chemical exposure, proving how targeted research can win tough claims.

The conversation then tackles the now-rescinded proposal to rate disabilities in a medicated state. We explain why symptom control isn’t cure, how such a rule would punish adherence and invite churn, and how courts have already affirmed ratings must reflect unmedicated baselines. On mental health, we draw the line between stabilization and recovery, outline practical steps to secure DSM-5 diagnoses with Vet Center counseling and VA psychiatry, and stress the power of detailed buddy statements for incidents that never made it into records.

We also spotlight the structural mess: VHA, VBA, and cemetery services run on different rails; community and contracted care don’t always flow back; and older records can disappear. The fix on the veteran side is ownership—gather civilian files, align diagnoses to rating codes, and work with an accredited VSO who can flag special monthly compensation, aid and attendance, and survivor benefits. Even with OTH discharges, VA adjudication can reopen doors when the facts support service connection.

If this conversation helps you or someone you love, share it with a fellow vet, subscribe for more candid guides, and leave a review so others can find it. Your voice keeps this community sharp, informed, and hard to ignore.

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Fraud Claims

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Veteran disability, one of my favorite subjects. And we've been seeing it all over the media. Are veterans committing fraud? Is there rampant fraud in the system? Are we all just trying to abuse everything that we can and get whatever we can out of the system? Well, we have no real uh proof. I don't call a Washington Post investigation proof. I don't call one book by Daniel Gade with cherry pick stories proof. What I do find is that it all depends. It all depends. And today, to talk more about this issue and about what veterans can do to ensure that they do get the benefits that they earned, uh, we're gonna talk with Jane Babcock. She has a lot of uh knowledge on this in this arena. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing wonderful, and welcome to the Stories of Service Podcast. Ordinary people do extraordinary work. I'm the host of Stories of Service, Teresa Carpenter. And to get this podcast started, as we always do, an intro from my father, Charlie Picker.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to Echoes, Stories of Service, hosted by Teresa Carpenter. Here from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

And Jane Babcock is a former U.S. Army and Army Reserve retiree who has four DD214s. That is a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

She is a home. They kept calling me back.

Meet Jane Babcock And Her Path

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Well, I know how that is. I have two myself. I thought I was only needing one, but apparently my enlisted time was a whole separate uh DD214. So at retirement, I created another DD214. She is also a former accredited county veteran service officer and has helped file more than 1,200 claims and now a volunteer veterans and widower benefits educator. And so today we're going to talk about some of the most heated debates in veteran circles. Is the disability fraud truly rampant, or is this narrative oversimplified and politically charged? So we've seen, like I said, many Washington Post investigations. We've seen lots of talk online. I hosted Daniel Gade on my show. Highly recommend you check out some of his material and see things from his side because we do have to have these conversations. And the also, there's some scrutiny on this on our disability with strong pushback from all the veteran service organizations, which is predictable, and congressional voices defending the system. And today we're going to talk about what constitutes within the VA bylaw real fraud versus bureaucratic failure, media framing, and misunderstandings. We'll also take a hard look at the companies often labeled as claim sharks. Are these people exploiting veterans? Are they filling a gap by offering additional options for help with complex claims? And where is the line between predatory behavior and legitimate assistance and who gets to decide? And then we will also touch upon the latest VA rule change, which has now been rescinded as of today, I believe, regarding medications and how symptom control can affect disability ratings and how has this played out in veterans in real time. If a medication manages symptoms, should a disability decrease? And how does the VA distinguish between improvement, stability, and cure? And what does that mean for living with for veterans who are living with chronic conditions long term? Welcome again, Jane.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Thank you, Teresa. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

I'm glad you're here. So, first off, as I always ask all my guests, uh, where were you born and raised and why did you decide to join the army?

SPEAKER_03 3:53

Uh well, born and raised. I started out in upstate New York in a little town called Elmyra.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

And then I moved about every two to three years. Uh my father worked for Coca-Cola sales, and we did a lot of moving to where they were building new plants and setting up markets, and then on we went to the next place. So um one of the most unique places I lived was Hudson, Ohio. Uh, we actually saw the National Guard drive through our town on the way to Kent State. So we were 14 miles from the campus, and my dad had to literally lock my sister in the bedroom and nail her bedroom window shut because he was afraid she'd go to campus.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Oh gosh, yes. I I can I can I can relate. I I had many uh uh nights uh sneaking out going to OSU campus from Ohio for Ohio State University. So I I know I know what it's like to be in those college towns. So what did you do in the army?

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Well, I started out as crypto tech, did a year in AIT, a year in Korea, and tried to extend. And they said, Oh, nope, sorry, we've already selected you for another school. And I was like, I didn't ask to go to school. And they said, Oh yeah, we're gonna teach you how to install electronics, do all the electrical wiring and the conduit and ductwork and all that stuff. So I did that for two and a half years, traveling all over the United States, saw 26 states. And then I had a great job offer for working for an underwater acoustical research outfit, installing systems on submarines and ships, and going out and do the navigational plotting, so I'd be hanging around in case something broke. But uh that was that was a really cool job. Did that for a number of years and was in the reserves out in DC and worked for FEMA. My reserve unit was in FEMA, and so we did Hurricane Hugo, San Francisco earthquake, things like that. Um so and then I came back to Wisconsin, found an MI school, and they said, Oh, you want to go back to school again? And I said, sure. And so I picked up a military intelligence analyst, and I'd picked up um radio operator with FEMA. So by the time I got all done with the military, I had five MOSs.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Wow. So how many years total with active and reserve?

SPEAKER_03 6:15

21 and a half. Um, if you took all my extra duty time I did as a reservist, I'd come out with 12 and a half years of active duty time.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Wow. Okay.

First Encounters With VA And Gaps

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Point twice. Uh unfortunately, I was hurt in a stupid, stupid training accident at the high tech in California, getting ready to go to Afghanistan. And then the unit left without me. And I had spinal surgery. They had to cut me open here and do a bunch of stuff to my neck and lost some of the use of my right arm and whatnot. But uh nobody knew VA. We were this tiny little reserve detachment in Wisconsin, and they just went, oh, sign here, you're in the retired reserves. When you get fixed, if you're good, come back and you know, you can join us over in Afghanistan. It takes an act of Congress to move you out of the retired reserves. So that wasn't gonna happen. And I was a broken toy, anyways. I'm right-handed, and it was my right arm that's involved. And it just, you know, so I didn't get to go back. I was hoping to do 30. I showed you the picture earlier of my grandfather. He did 30 between World War I, World War II, and the reserves. So I was hoping to do the same, but that didn't work out.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Right, right. So, what was your impression or introduction to the VA at that time?

SPEAKER_03 7:42

Three years after I left the military, I saw an ad for a county veteran service officer, and I said, Oh, gee, what's that? So I read the job description. I went, I can go back to being around my family. You know, I'm a third generation, so I've always spoken the army language. So I was like, oh my god, I get to go back and be with other troops. Yeah, that's great. And then of course I got in the job and took the training, and I went, oh, I could have been using VA for all my surgery.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

And so you you weren't on VA up until this point, like before you got this job. You had no idea that you could use these benefits.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

Nope. And of course, uh, my office had been had not had a veteran service officer in it for a year because he had been in a bad accident before. And so I had this overwhelming caseload. So I didn't even file my own claim until a year later.

unknown 8:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

So you're but you're learning the process during this time, and you're going, oh gosh, I was injured on the job, and these injuries I could be getting treatment for, and had no idea that I could utilize the VA. So I think that's amazing. And I think that's why a lot of people find the resources that they do and get involved in the causes that they do, because they realize that there's a gap, and they're also a recipient of not having that particular service. And so a year later you file. And how long do you stay on as a county VSO? Uh 11 and a half years.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

And uh it was a amazingly wonderfully rewarding job. And I did retire early, about two years early. Uh retired, I was about 60 and a half. Um, I did that only because when I lost my second veteran to suicide, I was not in a good place.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

And I found myself avoiding tasks and responsibilities. I thought, you know, all these years I had been doing all my outreach. I was one of those driven people. I would work the county fair, and I would work there all day, and then I'd go to the office for two hours, then I'd get up early and go back to the office for two or three hours, and then I'd go back to the county fair all day. And you know, it was just I'd been a recruiter, so I was used to the long hours. Sure, sure. And it's that's yeah, yeah. And I just wore myself out, and it impacted my mental health as well as my emotional health, and um, I wasn't in a good place. So instead, I retired and I started doing articles on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, you've you've grown quite the LinkedIn following. I think you're you have you have uh you have more followers than I do. I mean, you're you're very, very and you're helpful. I mean, you're providing all this information on LinkedIn that a lot of people just don't know because they don't have the experience that you have and they haven't seen all the issues that you do. As you were a county VSO, what would you say were some of the biggest stuck points that you would see with veterans?

Pension, Presumptives, And Unknown Benefits

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Well, I hate to say it, but compensation because everybody thinks of VA as healthcare clinics and then compensation, but they don't know that there is a wartime veterans pension. If you were lucky enough to serve, but you served during wartime, maybe in Kentucky, and you didn't have any serious injuries, and you're getting a 10 or 20% compensation check, but now all of a sudden your spouse is in assisted living, your income's upside down. And if you serve during wartime, there's an option for wartime veterans pension that could provide you anywhere from$35 to$2,000 to help you cover those medical costs.

SPEAKER_04 11:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

In my 11 and a half years, I asked every veteran, do you know what the wartime veteran pension is? One veteran said, Well, I've heard of it. Don't know exactly how it works, but I've heard of it. And I asked, Do you know that ALS is a presumptive? And I mean, I let out I met thousands and thousands out doing my outreach, and none of them ever said yes to knowing whether or not ALS is a presumptive.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

And there's probably people that were suffering from it and may any in deep, deep, deep medical debt who could have been using their VA benefits to hype with these medical bills.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Every year in May, I would put an ad in the newspaper because May is ALS month. And my oldest daughter, our oldest, organizes an ALS walk here in our town. And I would put an ad in the newspaper about ALS being a presumptive, you know, are you a veteran suffering with or a widow of? And I'd always get a couple widows and usually one, maybe two veterans, but I'd get two or three, maybe even four widows those first couple years. Oh, yeah, he died eight years ago. Well, I'm sorry, honey. They put it on the list the year before, but you guys never heard about it. So I can't get you the last eight years they owe you, but I can get you from today forward. I can get you that survivor's compensation.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Right. What is a presumptuous condition? Does that mean that it was caused by service? Or they presume it's caused by service?

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Right. Anything that they've been able to scientifically show, you know, this through the studies and whatnot, that like ALS, for every three people that get ALS, generally two of them are the veterans. So we are nearly twice as likely to get it.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Mm-hmm. And and I think that that's what it is with a lot of these conditions. I mean, the Daniel Gates of the world will say sleep apnea, that's just a BS thing that no veterans get because of military service. And what I have found, as I did some of my research, because for an example, I have Reynolds syndrome, and Reynolds can be caused by typing for long periods. It can be caused by other conditions, other things that happen while you're in service. So I think with a lot of these conditions, there's no way to definitively say it was your military service that caused it. And if you are a veteran, you would like to think that the VA, when there's not a definitive uh cause, like it could be due to due to a service uh incident or it could be not due to a service incident. You would like to think that the VA will obviously side with the veteran and say, well, if we don't know, what do you think of that?

SPEAKER_03 14:32

That's true. And really, like, okay, I had a 27-year-old. Came back from the sandbox fairly unscathed, got him a little bit of compensation, on and on with life he goes. At the age of 27, he gets diagnosed with a very aggressive form of lung cancer. Now, this was a young man that had never smoked. He didn't work in a high chemical environment in his civilian job. So we went and I said, Okay, what was your MOS? And he caught he worked on the cables that catch the planes on the carriers. And one of the products he used there, which they stopped using in 1999, was PD680. It's a conglomerate of chemicals that's a cleaning agent that they used. And so I went and I looked that up on the OSHA site, and I'll look at all the stuff that it's in it, that is in it, and oh, here's all the risk factors a list of cancers, including the one he had. So I took those reports and I put those in his claim. Good. And I said, guys, you can't prove it was and you can't prove it wasn't. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

And then you you should defer to that.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Yep, when you put it in equipoles, yeah, as it must rule in favor of the veteran.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

You must you must rule in the favor of the veteran. And I and I think those are those are are sound and reasonable policies. What is it that you say to the people who say, well, you're a veteran, you got injured off duty, let's say, got injured off duty. Do you think that veteran should still be compensated? Or is it is it the law of the VA that that veteran still be compensated for that injury that occurred off duty?

Evidence, Equipoise, And A Cancer Case

SPEAKER_03 16:26

Yes. The law requires them to because after all, when you're on active duty or you're on the your weekends, or you're in your summer camp, you are on duty from the minute you leave your house. Correct. Until you leave the military. So until you uh leave active duty, you're covered whether you twist your knee playing on the company's softball team or whether you're in a combat zone. Correct. And it's the same thing with drill weekend. You're on your way to drill and you're in a horrible car accident, you're still in paid status. Right. And I think that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Don't understand. A lot of people don't understand that distinction. And they have pointed to the VA and say, oh, the VA is running out of money. Like we're paying veterans too much money. And at some point, we are going to be so in the in the hole. And and and and what is your what is your answer to that? Do you think that this is a system that at some point will no longer be able to sustain itself with the levels of of money that we're paying out for claims?

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Well, I look at it this way. When my father went to war in World War II, his chances of coming home were a lot slimmer than what our guys come home now. Our guys get wounded in a situation as soon as they're put on a helicopter or a plane to Germany or whatever. They're getting operations and everything else. So their lives, their chances of survival from injuries that would have definitely killed them in World War II and Vietnam and Korea is so much greater. Which means that we have so many more percentage-wise, so many higher numbers of disabled. Anytime you damage somebody and they survive it, I mean, one of my guys was paralyzed and the Adam's apple down. And yet he still worked doing legal stuff with dragon software and all that stuff on the computer. So yeah, you're gonna have a higher rate amongst the youngest generation of combat veterans.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

And and these veterans also have access to resources that unfortunately previous generations didn't have, primarily the internet. They're able to go onto the internet and they're able to research this. Now, I posed a question to you before the call, and this is also going to come up to some people. There are those people that are going to know how to game the system, they're going to find those conditions that an MRI can't definitively say. They're going to find the things that they know they can get a doctor to say, and they're going to claim by law the compensation that they are entitled to by law. How would you suggest if you were the VA, how do we because I don't think it's the fault of the veteran? That's just my opinion. I think it's the I think that there has to be something maybe within the provider system. I don't think it can be tied to medication because medication can work or it cannot work. But there I agree that there has to be some guardrails to prevent the situation that I posed. So in your opinion, how would and you were the VA and you could you could answer the Daniel Gates of the world about who's legitimate versus who isn't? How would you go about trying to weed that out?

Off-Duty Injuries And The Law

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Well, that is a tough one. And is there fraud? Yes, there is. Is it the vault of the veteran? Sometimes. Sure. But it's like the doge thing with social security. Oh, there's thousands and thousands of people over the age of 100 that are on social security. No, they're just in the computer. They've already had their social security cut off.

unknown 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

You know, just because they're in the computer doesn't mean they're that bad. Now I personally I know the bobble fraud stuff because I did have one guy that just totally uh bamboozled me with his. I mean, he came in my office and he he said it breathing hurt. That's how bad he made it sound like his disabilities were impacting him. Did he have some damage? Yeah. Was it that bad? No. But and do I think there are some conditions that they should consider uh looking at, say follow-up surgery. Uh you got a presumptive cancer, you become a hundred percent while you have active cancer. You get your treatments and everything else, and then they say, okay, right now technically you're cancer free. They wait a year to see whether or not it flares back up, and after a year they say, Okay, it hasn't flared back up, we're gonna reduce you from that 100%. But we're gonna look at okay, say it was prostate cancer and you had your prostate out. Do you now have urinary leakage? Um, of course, you have ED. You know, those conditions that come as you would if you hadn't had the surgery, you wouldn't have this problem. Right. But those are rated at a lower percentage. There are certain things like some back injuries and stuff like that can actually. Be sufficiently corrected that you shouldn't be 70% for that. Right. You should be more like a 30 or a 50. Correct. So some of those things I think could possibly be considered for reduction. But most conditions aren't going to improve. You start damaging bones and joints and stuff. Right. Generally speaking, those aren't going to get better.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Without traumatic surgery. Which is then going to lead into other secondary issues that can be rated. But you would talk about, you know, like presumptive Parkinson's for Agent Orange guys. That's never going to improve. ALS, it's never going to improve. You might get the 10-year kind. Yeah, you might get the 10-year kind that's going to take you 10 years to die from. But the last five to seven years, you're going to be trapped in your own body. Your mind is going to be totally clear, but you can't even lift your finger your hand up to feed yourself.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

So those are gimme's.

Costs, Survivability, And Disability Rates

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yep. And I think that the other one that people always want to jump to when they talk about this in the fraud space is they always want to talk about mental health. And they want to say that mental health will get better statistically over time. And I I think that it can be, it's like anything else. It can be managed and it can, and you can have, I think, seasons in your life where your PTSD or your bipolar or your depression or whatever it is you have is stabilized. But I wouldn't say it's something, it isn't like any like a broken leg that heals. Right. And I and I just I really reject that argument that that that these things just get better. They they don't. They are managed and they are um they have seasons where they're going well, and then they have seasons where things aren't going well.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

And I I've been all on and off my mental health meds during certain times of my life because well, I told you earlier as a CVSO, I lost two of my guys to suicide. And as a recruiter, I just wanted to get in the car and drive and keep driving and never have to come back to this place ever again. And so, you know, sometimes it's that severe, and sometimes it's just, you know what? I'm not leaving the house today.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

So it's always there with you. It's a brain chemistry thing going on inside your head. Once your brain learns how to make that chemical imbalance, it knows how to go back to it.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Absolutely. I agree. Oh, sometimes it's uh, you know, got to get in the cave and protect myself. Yep. And I a lot of us, and and this is another thing that nobody seems to want to talk about in the veteran space, but a many of us veterans, we grew up in very rough and tumble, bad childhoods. And we love the structure that the military provides. It gives us this sense of purpose, this sense of belonging. And I always think that having a bad childhood is a double-edged sword because part of it is, of course, very traumatic and it's hard to adjust to certain situations. But sometimes these kinds of people, because they've dealt with so much adversity, they're some of the strongest people and they're some of the most resilient people, and they're some of the ones that can be the most tested in battle and come out the other side because they've already dealt with this dysfunction. Like I can remember my work centers at many of my jobs, especially being enlisted, were totally dysfunctional and really toxic. But to me, they didn't seem that bad because I had dealt with these kinds of things. I mean, it was normal to me for people to say the things that they were saying to one another or treating me or treating others the way they were treating. And it allowed me to survive that situation where I would see some people who had never been in these kinds of situations would immediately not be able to cope. And I just wasn't that person because people acted crazy around me all the time. I was I was used to it.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

So yeah, so that's what made the military easy for me. I moved around a lot, I never lived in one place for three years until I was in the military. Once I was in the army, I was actually on the same duty station for over two and a half, almost three years. And that was the first time I could say that.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Right. I mean, we're we're constantly like Dixie Vander said, you must have a can-do attitude to be in the military. Absolutely. You must be able to adjust, you must be able to step or gumby, as we always say, adapt and overcome. And so those very things that that that that are called trauma are also terrific coping mechanisms. And I think that that's one of the shifts in my thinking that has helped me deal with with my PTSD, with my anxiety, is the idea that this thing that I have was also what made it so that I could navigate around toxic people as well as I did and and and develop coping skills. I mean, towards the end of my career, my social media channel and my ability to speak truth to power was a direct result of the stuff I was seeing at work. And I was like, I can't believe this. Well, at least I've got this podcast where I could talk, maybe not about these people, but I could talk about certain issues that I keep seeing over and over again. So it became a coping mechanism and it helped me cope and hopefully provided a service to the collective at the same time. And so I think that there's something to be said about veterans and their ability to fight back. And we saw that uh last week or the last couple of weeks when this regulation came down. Were you surprised by the collective energy of the veterans to rally around this issue?

Guardrails, Reductions, And Real Fraud

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Nope, not at all. Um I posted it on the 15th that there was this regulation change about to happen. And remember, regulations are just that, they're regulations, they're not laws. So they can't, they can be changed by the secretary. Any cabinet secretary can change the regulations inside their department. So it doesn't take senators, doesn't take congressmen or any approvals or any of that kind of stuff. The secretary answers to the president when it comes to that stuff. So this proposed language change, taking into you know, we're gonna rate your disability based on your medicated state, which is really stupid.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Right, makes no sense scientifically, in my view.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

It would have just added a ton more work onto the VA for claims because you'd be looking, I I get shots in the back of my head because all the metal they put in my neck causes migraines and the migraines that come on so quick and so harsh that I would end up in the emergency room. So they do shots at the base of my skull. Well, I started out once a year getting them, then it was every nine months. Now I'm down to every six months, and eventually it'll go down to three months, and that's it. They can't give them to me any closer together than that. So I will go back to having migraines. So what are you gonna do? Lower my rating now, and then in six months, a year from now, I'm going back in and going, okay, now you gotta raise it again. Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah, or I need to change medication because this one's no longer effective, or and then you're also gonna have veterans who intentionally don't take their medication because they're worried that their compensation is going to go down. And I want to address compensation too, because I wish it wasn't called disability. I wish there was another word because the general public or people that don't understand what veteran disability is, I feel like a lot of times they see it as, oh, you're disabled. That must mean you can't work or you can't do anything. And that's not what disability is. Disability is the lost wages and income that you would have had if this condition had not impacted your life. And it is, I would say, each each of these type of percentages, they're constantly being adjusted, they're being changed, they're being studied. I I think the VA does the best they can with the information that they have. And I I think that people sometimes expect this to be some magic formula. And it's not. It's it's what we it's it's an estimation of the of the amount of money that you would have earned if these disabilities or these conditions rather were not present. And it's not meant to be a unless you're TDIU, it's not meant temporarily disability individual unemployment. It's not meant to be something that blocks a veteran from working, it's meant to be an aid to help the veteran so that they can maybe take that lower page, lower wage job and still support their family.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

Right. Yep. It was based on employability, but way back in the day, it was okay. The vector the soldier lost his leg. He's not going to be able to plow the fields behind the horse anymore. So um that's what it was based on. Now they do take into account some quality of life, because after all, some people can still function, but their ability to fully function, even in their own personal space, is impacted by their injuries. So I always tell people just refer to it as your compensation. Yep. That that's the way I look at it.

Mental Health Isn’t A Broken Bone

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Like compensation for injury or illness. Right. Right. I mean, and and a lot of times you I get it. I I watch a lot of these uh special forces podcasts, and uh a lot of them, I think they won't come out and say it, but they feel like there is definitely a divide between the people that got injured in a combat situation. So they got they lost a limb or they had a burn accident or or something along those lines, and then others who have had other types of moral injuries, for an example. I mean, that is a that is a real thing in the military. We don't have a proper justice system in the military, we don't have a proper IG system. There are scores of people who have been abused by the conflict lack of conflict resolution system. It is a known fact that there does not exist a proper avenue to redress issues. You just have to work it out, work it out with your brothers and sisters. And sometimes your brothers and sisters have a lot of problems themselves and are hurt. And so, what do hurt people do? Hurt others, exactly. So they're not getting the treatment while they're on active duty because they don't want to screw up their ability to deploy and to promote. I know I never got treatment for mental health issues other than going to military one source. I wasn't going to go anywhere near a therapist or a psychologist that was associated with my mental health medical record. And so you have a lot of people who are focused on meeting the mission. They're focused on deployment, they're focused on the operations. So they are not out there seeking mental health treatment and they are abusing people, maybe not consciously, but they're abusing people. And we don't have that conversation. And that's part of the compensation that some soldiers, service members are receiving. And I think there has to be more dialogue about that very issue because it sometimes tends to only focus on combat injuries or hey, I I broke my back. And it's much bigger than that.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Yeah. I've I have not been in combat. When Desert Storm kicked off, they took my unit, fragged us, and some of us went to the Pentagon. So, I mean, come on, after a couple weeks of that, they went, Oh, they're doing such a good job, y'all can go home. So I have a National Defense Service medal. But then at the high tech in California, I wasn't in the combat zone yet, but I was getting ready to go over there. And so, you know, when they start strapping you back together with metal screws and strapping material, yeah, it's it's the reality of it. But yeah, you're right. It's it's not favorable out here in the real out in the quote real world, like we used to call it. It's not easy to report an employer for uh you know bad work environment or whatever, or abuse by a boss or something like that. But in the military, if you even try to report it in most instances, you're gonna be the one retaliated on.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Totally. And in the civilian world, you can quit. In the military, you can't walk away, you are stuck. So if you don't want to deal with this abusive person, you have no choice but to deal with this abusive person.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

You can ask for a transfer, but it's gonna take a year or more.

Trauma, Resilience, And Military Culture

SPEAKER_01 35:57

And even then it's I begged to go to the tool room when I was enlisted and I was getting bullied in my work center. I was an E5 at the time, and I begged my chief. I said, just take me to the tool room, please. I can't work around. And they're like, nope, Teresa or Terry. I went by, yeah, I went by Teresa still then. Uh, your engine turn qualified, you can run up the auxiliary power units, your flight deck, final shooter, uh, final checker, troubleshooter. No, we need you, and this mission needs you. And ultimately, it was the talk I needed at the time to get through that situation. But yeah, I mean, you you have to deal with those things. And it is definitely something that warrants a bigger conversation. And that's why there's people like Walk the Talk Foundation and others who are working on that part of the issue. I hope one day that also extends to even cart court-martial procedures and other things that are more from a due process perspective. But I do think that the VA has a responsibility to take care of those issues as well, not just the issues that that people uh suffered in combat. And that's not to minimize what happens in combat either. I I definitely, obviously, believe that those service members also need to be taken care of. And they have extra benefits too that I learned. I think I was watching a podcast with Dan Crenshaw, and even for his eyes, he he got an additional$100,000 because his eyes were damaged. So the VA or the military does also provide for additional benefits for people that are catastrophically injured, correct?

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Right. Yeah. I one of my veterans received over six thousand dollars a month, and this was more than 10 years ago. And he was single. Right. So I think back then it was like$3,100 for 100%.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

So he was getting almost double his 100% rate because of his catastrophic injuries.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Injury, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

So there's there's this thing called special monthly compensations, you know, loss of or of a creative organ is what they call it.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Right. Those are interesting ones. Well, and and and those apply, and those apply to women too, by the way. The special military compensation.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

Yeah, because they ended up finally on the third surgery taking out my uterus.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Yeah. And I think that's wonderful that they're giving people those benefits. I mean, you guys can see it tonight. I've got my rosacea coming out. I've got lots of and lots of little issues and things. And I am very grateful for the VA. I go to the Biloxi VA, they've been nothing but good to me. Uh, I'm moving everything over from TRICARE over to the VA because Tri-Care, I gotta pay 40 bucks every time I go see a specialist. And it got to a point where I wanted the ability to see a specialist. And if I have to go back a couple times, I don't want to, I'm wanting, don't want a$120 bill.

The Medication Rating Rule Backlash

SPEAKER_03 39:09

So yeah, I've done nothing but use VA since I got my rating. Um, because like you, Tricare would have stepped in for me. But at that time I was using my civilian insurance from my job and stuff, and it was just like they were misdiagnosing me. First time I went into VA, my primary listened to my lungs and said, Yeah, I don't think that's asthma. And I was on two inhalers and a daily med for exercise asthma. Wow. And they sent me in, they did a whole cardio cardiac workup on me and everything, and they went, um, okay, you've got an electrical issue because you get these long stretches of PVCs and PACs, and every once in a while you hit a superventricular tachycardia episode. So we're gonna go in and look around for a short in your heart, and oh, while we're in here, we're gonna do the die test. And I actually had eight blockages. Wow. No wonder I couldn't breathe and I couldn't run and I couldn't. Mm-hmm. For sure. So they put me on a cocktail of meds, and within three days I threw the inhalers out. A year later, they said, Oh, six out of the eight significantly improved. The only two that didn't were on the same blood vessel, and that one was the worst one I had, and one was a medium one. And so they just put one stint in to cover the two of them, and it was just incredible the difference in my ability to breathe in just the first six months before they even did the stent.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Yeah, that's wonderful. And that's why I know that not all VAs are created equal, and so I can't juxtapose my experience on other people's experiences, but I I've been treated nothing but but good there, and I have nothing but good things to say about my local VA.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Yeah, I love my VA. Literally, I've walked the first time I walked in, two people that I knew worked there. It was like, oh, it's like hey Jay, how are you? Let's you know, but yes, medical practices change everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

But remember, they cut off the wrong foot in civilian hospitals too.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

And it takes my husband needed an MRI, and it took us two and a half, almost three months. And that was only because somebody had canceled that he got in that early.

unknown 41:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

So yeah, it's not great out in the civilian world either.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

No, healthcare is a is a big problem no matter where you're trying to receive healthcare, and and many government officials are are are very aware of of the healthcare issues that we have in this country. But I I I can say that overall the VA that I've that I've dealt with has been very good to me and has done what they can to take care of us. And I think that it is their responsibility and their duty to do so. So I going forward, I can't see them ever putting out another rule like this again. I still wonder, and as we talked before the call, why they did it this way.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

Um this isn't their first time. They have tried to do this, they have proposed doing this a couple times. Every every five uh every one of the secretaries, the last five secretaries, have had lawsuits brought against them because of this type of discussion, the potential that we're gonna do this, and that's why when Ingram got decided, which was definitely it was an effort by the VA to reduce this to lowball this guy's rating and his going, wait a minute, wait a minute, all I have to do is stop taking the medicine and I'll be all effed up again. So they get told back in 2025, you can't do that. You have to rate them as if unmedicated because the medication isn't changing the damage that's in his body, it's just masking it. Well then Secretary Collins trying to do this was like, Are you kidding me? You've just been told by the court the federal court system that you can't do it, and now a year later you try to sneak it in the back door. So yeah. It's it happens over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

So it'll probably continue to happen, and that's why we veterans just need to stay informed and stay on top of these policies. I've never watched more public hearings uh since I've been a veteran than I do these days. And I I it is surprising. I one of the things that I I take a class for public leadership. Which is all about political parties and running for office. And I really want to know why is there a house committee for veteran Democrats and then a House Committee for Veteran Republicans? Wouldn't it be great in a perfect world that there was just a house committee for veterans? And I mean, that to me is just so sad. When I sometimes I'm watching these hearings and I'm like, this is so politicized. Us veterans, we just we just want care. We just want to have community. We don't need all this back and forth drama. And it's just, it's really sad the way it we see it play out. And a lot of times it just doesn't seem like some of these proposals are very well planned from a from a congressional standpoint. And I wonder too, like, what have you seen as a VSO in your time helping veterans, the congressional involvement within the VA? Like, what have you seen?

Compensation vs Disability Labels

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Not nearly enough, not a nearly not strong enough involvement because they do a lot of proposals. And we're gonna do it all in the committee, but it either never gets out of committee or gets to the floor and killed, and there's no, like you said, no sitting down at the table and really discussing it on an equal basis. It's oh no, if I give in to you, then I'm gonna look weak. But you're ignoring half of your voters back home. So it yeah, it really is uh cut off your nose to spite your face kind of thing. And will they try it again? Yeah, I'm sure they will. Sure, sure. So, but at the same time, we are a decreasing amount of the population. When Vietnam ended, there was, I believe it was 35 million, and now we're less than 18 million.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Hmm, yeah, we're 18 million. I'd remember that.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

So yeah, so and then you have to reduce that number even further by only deceased veterans and the percentage of them that left spouses behind. Right now, figuring out the numbers. I'm one of those geeky people that likes to do spreadsheets and all that stuff, so I used to do these all the time as a CVSO. Less than 50% of veterans are using the VA health care. Of those using the VA health care, there's quite a number of them that should be rated for presumptive illnesses. I used to sit in the cardiology waiting room and see these Vietnam guys that were waiting to see their cardiologist, and oh, you have ischemic heart disease? You know you're supposed to be rated for that, right? And their own treating doctors don't know it because the VA doesn't put anything in their own health care facilities. You can't get a federal benefits handbook anymore. As of January 25, the Protect Women's Executive Order stopped them from issuing any documents that had mentioned of LGBTQ or LGBTQ services. So that included the VA and Social Security and all the others. So all those doc all those benefit books that they printed in late 2025 are either still sitting in warehouses or they've already burned them up. And then Doge came in and said, Hey, why do we need to print stuff? We've got the internet. So they're not printing anything now.

unknown 47:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

And a lot of these Vietnam veterans are not on the internet the way we are, the way I am. So they're not having access.

SPEAKER_03 47:42

Yeah, where I live, there are people that can't get internet. When I drive to my sister's house three hours away, I spend an hour without sell service.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

And there's still a lot of people who are not going to be able to do that. If you're on a low fixed income, you can't afford the internet. Much less the computer and all the other crap that goes with it. And if you know how to use it, but how do you go up and look for VA wartime pension if you don't know it exists?

Combat, Moral Injury, And SMC

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Right. Yeah, you have to know all these benefits. And that that is the thing. Like TAPS class is not sufficient to really teach you about these benefits. I learned the majority of what I learned about being coming a veteran on LinkedIn. I mean, that's really where and having a podcast was and having people like yourself on my show. If I hadn't had that, I wouldn't know what I know. And even with that, I still got blindsided by the survivor benefit plan and by not having a DD214 from my enlisted time, and by not understanding that in the Navy, all my awards had to be uploaded to NCIPs. It didn't matter that it was in my official military personnel file. It did not matter that it was in my, I don't know where else, but it's I thought if it was in my OMPF, oh my Navy NDOS and the Navy award system, I thought that was enough. And I went through my whole career getting promoted, everything with only knowing that it was in my official military personnel file and NDOS. And then all of a sudden at retirement, they're like, we don't have anything on NCIPs. I'm like, why does it all have to be on NCIPs? Well, because your DD214 reads out from NCPs. So I spent a good majority of my time prepping, making sure that every single award that I had ever earned in the last 28 years and four months was accurately put either in my enlisted DD214, which had to be built from the ground up, and my officer DD214. So it was it was crazy.

SPEAKER_03 49:45

And in the VA, it's just as bad. A raider logs into no less than three, sometimes up to five different systems to pull together a claim.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Shouldn't be like that. Should not be like that at all.

SPEAKER_03 50:01

But you've got to remember when computerization first happened, there was all these standalone computers, then local area networks, and then you're trying to get these local area networks to talk to wider area networks. And the guy that's programming the stuff in California is not the same guy that's programming in Florida. And so when he codes it, he has it. So line 17 is your date of birth, and the other guy has it that line 20 is your date of birth on the code. So now you're trying to get these two programs to talk to each other that don't, which is why we still, you know, they're still talking about reducing the VISIN numbers. What is it? We have we well, we had 11 or 12 when I retired in 19, and I think they're trying to get it down to five now. But that that's that Mandarin Chinese, Hunan Chinese, can't get them to both speak the same language problem. You know, what I say as a compliment to someone might be an insult from the other computer.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 51:03

It's not an easy thing to do. No, and the people that are doing it are not medical people. Most of them are not military, so they don't understand the impact of military service on the human body and on the human psyche.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

No, no, they do not. And we have a couple people that are asking some questions in here, and I'll get to them. One person's asking, and I can see where some people think this do disabilities benefits feel like real support, or sometimes do they feel like control? And I think what he means is like if you're getting paid or you're getting compensated by the VA, is there a sense that you feel controlled or obligated? And that's something that Daniel Gay does bring up about the fact that when you are getting paid for not for just getting these benefits, does that prevent you from working? Does it prevent you? I mean, because you're like, oh, I don't think it does personally, because I know so many veterans who are still working who are also collecting their disability benefits.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

Yeah, I was how many years? The last three or five years because of follow-up surgeries and stuff like that. My rating went up from 80 to 100, um, and the side effects from those surgeries. But I continue to work.

VA Care Wins, Misses, And Access

SPEAKER_01 52:24

Right, right. And we know many veterans who continue to work or continue to be involved in their community, they continue to volunteer in the community. I mean, veterans are a very active community, and I think that they deserve to be in a situation where they can use as many resources as they can. And the only way to do that is through education. And Gary, uh who actually works at the Blexi VA, he says, I believe the V VBA needs to be more involved during TAP class, at least a week long for a VBA to discuss veteran benefits. And I agree because there's so much under veteran benefits. If you not just with the veterans disability or the VA, but all these other programs too. The VHA. Like I didn't understand that VHA was a separate line, VA was a separate line, and then burial is a whole separate line. Cemetery, yep.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

It's three different divisions, and they don't talk to each other because all the time veterans would say to me, Well, they know I had this surgery. Uh no, VBA does not know it. Benefit side of the house does not know it. That's what your claim does. Your claim says, I am filing for a knee injury. That gives them permission to look at any knee medical records in the VA side of the house, the V V the VHA side. But if you got treated on the outside, you need to bring those records into the VBA.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

Sure. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

People will say, Well, I went to a vet center. No, technically, the vet center is not part of VHA.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Who owns the vet center?

SPEAKER_03 54:07

It's a hard thing to really describe in that they are standalone, but they can communicate with VHA if you sign a release. Right, right. So they can work hand in hand. And if you're, you know, guys in the community say, well, my wife says I have to file for PTSD because I'm a grumpy son of a gun and I drink too much. Okay. Have you ever been to counseling? Have you ever been to a shrink and gotten diagnosed? No, because all they're going to want to do is stick drugs in me. Okay. Go to the vet center. They're all counselors. They can't prescribe medication. And 99% of them are combat counselors. Yes. So they understand. So go there six, eight times and then go over, you know, have release your records to be seen by the doctor at the VHA, this shrink that can actually firmly diagnose in the in accordance with DSM 5 so that he can say, Oh yeah, I see all the stuff that you talked to your counselor about. I agree. You have PTSD. Oh, you have depression anxiety because you weren't in a combat zone, you weren't traumatized as far as the fear of life, because pretty much that's the difference in PTSD and depression anxiety. So if you weren't, if you didn't have your life threatened, or didn't have the life of your roommate, your barracks mate, whatever threatened, or you didn't come upon a horrific car accident where a child or someone was killed, then you're not going to have that fear of your life so much as you're just fed up with your life.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

Okay. So you got to know what code to put you under. People will say, Well, I'm filing for knee pain. Well, why do you have knee pain? Is it a torn meniscus, torn tendon? Um, do you have a cyst behind your kneecap? You got to get those clear diagnoses so that they can say, Oh, yeah, you were diagnosed with a cyst behind your kneecap in service. That's the code we're gonna rate you under.

Systems Don’t Talk: Records Chaos

SPEAKER_01 56:18

Right. And people have to be very smart, even while they're on active duty, to ensure that when they do receive a diagnosis, they go to a specialist. They don't always just rely on the GP. They they they look to see if they can actually get it documented. And then once it's documented, they better make sure, and I'll get to the community care in a minute. But while you're on active duty, if you're at an overseas clinic and you're out there seeing a private physician or you've got a referral through TRICARE to a civilian provider, it is not automatic that that's going to go into your medical record. And we've got somebody here that talks about a similar issue on the VA side. If you have a community care record, it doesn't get automatically shared with the VA. It is the it is the responsibility of you to collect those community care records from that particular clinic and put that over to on your VA record. Now, it is interesting because my uh appointment recently for migraines did make it over to the VA, and I was shocked. I was really surprised by that. But that's not the norm. They can send it, but they don't, but they don't always, it's not a guarantee, and it's on you to ensure that they do. So, like the whole time I was in London and I was on private care, that's I had a routine where I would use DOD safe over to Lakinheath, and every so often every couple months, three months, I just would send records over to them because it was the only way that I could ensure that it would all go into my MHC genesis record.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

And especially if you're if you have tricare and you're using it or you're using your civilian insurance, then it's not going to go over there because they're not even, you know, at least through community care, most of the time community care requires those records in order to properly pay the clinic or hospital you went to.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

Yeah, it I thought it could always happen. So so it's interesting because the Bloxi VA could see some of my Tri-Care stuff, some of it, but it's not consistent across the board of what they can see. And so there I have had to repeat some tests just to just do it again over over over with them.

SPEAKER_03 58:34

But if you're an old person like me, there was no electronic records, so there was no sending stuff over. It was all paper back in the day. Right. It's like, okay, yeah, you gotta go hunt those down. And after a while, you know, seven years of them not seeing you as a patient, they can purge records. So when that happens, that's when you need those buddy statements. Hey, you know, I was with Private Snuffy when I jumped off the back of the deuce and a half and ate dirt because my knee gave out.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

Yes, that's a huge part of your claim.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

Yep. I jumped out of a Humvee. Um, we were doing some blackout driving and jumped out of the Humvee. The driver pulled over, we all just bailed out because there was a an um ambush. It was a stupid field exercise, and he pulled over to the side of the road right next to this big deep ditch.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 59:31

The two of us that bailed on that side of the vehicle landed in the ditch. Surprise! Landed on the far side, hyperextended both ankles. So when things quieted down, I just took 100 mile an hour tape and wrapped it over my socks like an ace bandage. And a couple days later, I went and got the scissors from the tock and cut my socks off. So I had a witness statement from the driver and a witness statement from the guy in the top that said, Oh yeah, her like bike both ankles were a pretty shade of purple.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

That's very smart of you to do that. Absolutely. And uh I didn't even know about this, but it makes sense. Uh Christopher uh Sirica says, same with contracted healthcare on military basis. Does not always get put in your medical record unless you request it. So that is something definitely to keep in mind. I always say, just like your electronic service record, no one's gonna care about your record or your paperwork more than you. So you must be diligent about owning that information and making sure it gets to where it needs to be. But as we wrap up this call, I guess I want to close out with saying what would be your top three things for a veteran to keep in mind when navigating the VA system.

Vet Centers, Diagnoses, And Proof

SPEAKER_03 1:00:50

Never do it alone. You need an accredited person, an accredited VSO. Not all claims agents out there are sharks. Some of them are pretty liberal in what in the amount of work they'll do for you. But generally speaking, for presumptive illnesses and for clear-cut, yeah, you had a knee surgery in service. Well, obviously, you still have the damage relatable on the outside, it's just getting that outside current diagnosis. So those are real easy claims, those are not difficult. It's the ones where you need somebody to help you research the chemicals that you were exposed to and what the ingredients are and what they cause. Or the Korean War guy that was shot, the field hospital was overrun. He was stuck in the rubble, and Marines came in and saved him. He had no paperwork showing he'd been shot, much less that he'd had frostbite. But it it took me six months, but I found one of the Marines and was able to get him to write a buddy statement, a witness statement.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

So even better, the that Marine came up from Ohio, picked up my guy, and took him down to Indiana the next year for a reunion. So he actually got to thank six of the guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:10

But don't do it alone because VSOs talk with each other. When I got a death certificate, 10-year-old death certificate changed, I wrote up the case notes and put it out on the forum. And I had other VSOs calling me up going, How exactly did you change that death certificate? So we share, we used to share that information. So you're not when you go with a VSO, you're not just talking to one. As a new one, I could get on the forum and go, Hey, I got this guy, and dah-da-da-da-da. And they go, Okay, ask him this, ask him that. If he says yes to this, do this, and you know, sure you have that mentor me.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

You have that resource. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:51

And if if your VSO suddenly dies, well, you've got others that are there to pick up the Slack. So um use a VSO accredited. The first thing you should ask is, are you accredited? Because if they're accredited, they had to sign an ethics statement with the VEA saying they will not charge, and they have they can't file frivolous claims, but they will file just about anything, even if they think it'll be turned down, because after all, okay, you have something that's not on the presumptive list, brain cancer. It's not on the agent orange list, but it's on the PAC Act for the young guys. So they were exposed to the same chemicals. I actually, one of my last claims before I retired was a brain cancer Agent Orange guy, and we got him service connected through. I ended up handing them off to a lawyer because I didn't have the same resources she did, but she took it pro bono, and she got a genetic oncologist to break down his DNA and say he had no cancer markers, he should never have developed his cancer, it had to be an outside chemical influence. And then he cited studies being done in Australia and New Zealand and all this other stuff that the VA said, Yeah, you're right, it's more than a 50-50 that we caused it. Wow. So work with the VSO. Um remember 100% or IU is not the end of end all be all. There are special monthly compensations that could be added on top. If you are using a skin cream for some kind of skin rash and service and it stains your clothes, there's a clothing allowance, there's all these little things. But if you don't ask a VSO to go over those with you, you're not going to know those are true. And then also consider your surviving family. If you're leaving a spouse or minor children or a disabled adult child who is still dependent on you behind, they're entitled to benefits, whether it's wartime pension, whether it's compensation. They and they too have other things that get added on top, such as your surviving spouse goes into assisted living. Well, she obviously needs help with her daily tasks of living, so there's another couple hundred dollars that goes on top of her claim.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:19

But you got to report it to the VA. Yep. Because they don't know. There's also home care, like care attendant, I want to say, that that you can get. And there's even things called VA homes. There's there's a few of them. There's one in Biloxi, but there are actual homes like retirement homes. They have limited availability, but they're also available for veterans.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:41

Yeah, they're a veteran community where it moves up from you know an independent apartment all the way up to assisted living to nursing home. It's a stage through type of thing in some states, not all. Then there are veteran homes, like in Wisconsin, we have the veteran home, and that's when you're at the assisted living or above level. Yep. And then there's there's so many things.

Documentation, Community Care, And Transfers

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

There's so many things. I mean we won't be able to cover them all. I mean, I would I just found out that there is a care facility in the Dominican Republic, and you can go there and get certain medical care uh for for certain uh uh I think it's only for 100% PNT, but I'm not 100% sure. Don't quote me on that, not 100% sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

One of the other things I ran into not very often, but often enough that I want to point it out. OTH, other than honorable, you can request care for any service connected injury or illness. Say you had flat feet by the time you left service and it's die and it's in your service records. You can get treatment for it, but you can't get the whole healthcare system, and you can't get compensation unless VA adjudicates your discharge. One of my guys was discharged from the Marines totally outside of regulation. They they sent him home while he was still in mental health care from a breakdown in Vietnam. Wow. And they kicked him out with an OTH. And it was like that was illegal. He was in medical care. So you stuck him in the hospital for six months in the cycle, and then as soon as he got out, you tossed him. He was still under mental health care. So the VA looked at that and went, no, no, no, no, no, that was an illegal discharge. He should have at least been given a general, if not an honorable. A general and honorable both get compensation. So he'd been fighting the VA for over a decade. And then I met his son, who then had me help his dad and got his benefits.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:54

I love it. So I love it. I love stories like that, Jane.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:57

That's just beautiful. Just beautiful. It does OTH doesn't mean the end of the road. Go and get that adjudication done. At least get the care for the things that were service related. Yes, if your OC your OTH was to avoid going through UCMJ and getting a dishonorable, then you're not going to get the compensation.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Sure. Sure. I love it. All right. Well, Jane, thank you so much uh for coming on the podcast. You know, I've wanted to have you on for quite some time, and so we we made it happen. So really appreciate it. Uh, I will meet you backstage while I say goodbye to the audience, and just really appreciate your time. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:38

God bless everybody. Thank you for your service.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

All right, guys. That is a wrap for this week. I know I had two shows, and I said, oh no, I'm only going to do one show a week. Well, that is going to be the case next week. So I've got a show coming on Thursday, and then I think another one after that. But as I always say, I hope you guys enjoy the rest of your week. We are getting towards the end of the week, which is always good because the weekend's coming. Enjoy the rest of your night. As I always say, please take care of yourselves. Please take care of each other. And I will talk to you all later. Bye bye now.