Patrick Caserta on The Brandon Act and the Fight That Isn’t Over | S.O.S. #267

A service member shouldn’t have to gamble their career to get mental health care, but that’s exactly the fear too many people carry into a toxic command climate. We talk with Patrick Caserta, a retired US Navy senior chief and combat veteran, about the life and death of his son, AE3 Brandon Caserta, and why Brandon’s story became the catalyst for the Brandon Act, now federal law.

Patrick walks us through Brandon’s path from SEAL training to a helicopter squadron, the breakdown of trust inside the chain of command, and the moments where basic leadership and bystander action could have changed everything. We also get specific about what the Brandon Act is designed to do: create a direct, confidential pathway to mental health care during working hours, without forcing a service member to justify their pain to a supervisor. If you’re searching for practical information on military mental health rights, retaliation concerns, and suicide prevention policy, this conversation lays it out in plain terms.

But law on paper isn’t culture in real life. We dig into why implementation still depends on unit leadership, what “accountability” could look like when leaders ignore or block requests for help, and why education at the deckplate level is essential so people actually know the protections they have. Patrick also shares the ongoing work of the Brandon Caserta Foundation and why awareness is still dangerously low across the force.

If this resonates, subscribe, share this episode with someone who serves, and leave a review so more people learn what the Brandon Act is and how to use it. What would make it easier for you to ask for help?

Stories of Service presents guests’ stories and opinions in their own words, reflecting their personal experiences and perspectives. While shared respectfully and authentically, the podcast does not independently verify all statements. Views expressed are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the host, producers, government agencies, or podcast affiliates.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome everybody to the Stories of Service podcast. Today is another episode of a very difficult issue. And as you guys know, I don't shy away from hard issues because I really do believe that when we talk about the hard things, we come together as a team and we can form solutions and ways to keep these kinds of things from never happening to other sailors again. So today I'm going to be talking to Patrick Caserta. He is the father of Brandon Concerta. And we're going to be talking about something that a lot of people, like I say, are not comfortable with. So if this is something that you're not comfortable with, because we will be talking about suicide, we'll be talking about mental health. We want to let you guys know now that this is the discussion. But Patrick, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Good. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Well, thank you so much for having for agreeing to come on the show. We know we had a little bit of technical technical difficulties getting started. So thank you for your patience with that. Welcome everyone to the Stories of Service podcast. Ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I'm the host of Stories of Service, Teresa Carpenter. And to get us started, as we always do, I'm going to play an intro from my father, Charlie Pickard.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS Stories of Service, hosted by Teresa Carpenter, here from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

And today we're going to be talking about his son Brandon and a very important law that has been passed in honor of him and where that stands today and what we can do about it. Brandon was a 21-year-old sailor who asked for help and didn't get it. In 2018, his death became the catalyst for the Brandon Act, which is now law designed to give service members a direct, confidential path to mental health without fear of retaliation. But as we always know, with laws, passing the law and changing the culture is not the same thing. And today we're going to talk about what still needs to happen: a consistent implementation across all branches, so access doesn't depend on command climate, clear accountability when leaders ignore or block requests for help, real protection against retaliation, not just policy language, and education at the unit level so service members know their rights and how to use them. And culture change inside the change of the chain of command, where seeking help is treated as a strength and not weakness. And Patrick's experience is also very unique in that he is a retired U.S. Navy senior chief with 22 years of service and a combat veteran. After the tragic loss of his son, AE3, Brandon Cacerta, he devoted his life to advocating for change within the military. He is a co-author of the Brandon Act, legislation that empowers service members to seek mental health confidentiality, confidentially and without fear. Through his work with the Brandon Caserta Foundation, Patrick continues to fight for accountability, awareness, and the well-being of those who serve. Welcome again.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Thank you.

Patrick’s Navy Career And Concerns

SPEAKER_00 3:05

First off, I always ask people, where were you born and raised? And tell me a little bit about your journey in the Navy and how that inspired your son to join as well.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Um, I was uh born in uh Philadelphia, South Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And I well, I I don't know, you know, it is debatable. What was this say, Brandon? Apparently Brandon joined the follow in my footsteps, but I never wanted him to join the military. Matter of fact, I used to tell people I'd never let my son join the military or daughter, he wasn't born yet. Uh at the time I was saying that, but when he was little, we made sure we could pay for college and that all his opportunities were out there that he could do. Every parent always strives to give their son or daughter a better life. My life, my childhood wasn't the greatest. So we went out of our way to ensure that we provided a good childhood for him. And but he he wanted to be a Navy SEAL, and part of it was because when he was since he was four years old, he was in swimming and karate and played football year-round and other sports. And I don't know, one could say he was naturally fit for it, he did like guns, and but he was surprising, but he wanted to try and be a Navy SEAL, so the only way you could do that is to join the Navy.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Mm-hmm. Did your experiences yourself serving kind of cloud your view of what he would be up against while serving in the Navy? Like, did you have some things that like really bothered you about the service that that was why you didn't want him to join?

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Yes, that there's uh, you know, all of us again. I I'd say there are a few that might not pertain to what I'm about to say, but most of us are some days are better than others. Sometimes there's more good days and bad days as a year goes by, but you put up with a lot and you I watched the military change, but what I really watched change was society dictates policy, society changed. What happened is my point is after I was in for six years, I went to recruiting, Navy recruiting, and I never left recruiting. I did the rest of my so 15 years in recruiting, and recruiting was ahead of the regular military with society because you were in normal society, and I saw the military was not changing and they were old fashioned, and they are I always joke around, but they're 50 years behind the general public, and I didn't like that at all. And I'd seen a lot of things I didn't like, and I just, you know, I made it through and I tolerated it a lot. I was in good and bad commands and mostly bad, but they became more toxic as the years went on, and it I really didn't want anybody to be exposed to this, but that I don't want to sound like a hypocrite because here I am in recruiting. But the thing about my success in recruiting was I told everybody the truth. If they asked, I I mean the point is I can only answer what I'm asked and what they want to know, and but I believe there'll be change someday. But unfortunately, what I was seeing there wasn't gonna be. That's one of the reasons why I retired.

SEAL Training Injury And PED Allegations

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Yeah, it's it's it's it's tough, Patrick, because I I I feel the same way that you do about a lot of parts of the Navy. There are some, like there are in any organization, there are some really, really good people, but unfortunately, there isn't an incentive within the leadership culture to do the right thing. And that plays out time and time again in in many ways, because people learn that they don't have to do the right thing and they don't have to do certain things in order to make sure that that people are being treated fairly. And so I I too have felt that way myself in in commands and found that it was all just personality driven. If you happen to have a good leader or a good person uh in charge, great. But because the promotion system is set up in a way that unfortunately rewards people who are boss pleasers and who won't speak up and won't call out malfeasance, then there really isn't an incentive to be the one to be the change. And so that we we see that across all branches within the military. And that's why I I I I take I'm very skeptical when I see some of the things with DOW right now about recruiting's never been better. I I I like you said, you worked in recruiting and and I think they they they changed the bar, they moved the goalposts to say those things, but I think we who have served know better. So once your son was in the Navy uh SEAL community, he didn't he didn't make it through Buds. That was my understanding, correct?

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yes, and I yes, he he didn't make it through there's when it all started. There was all kinds of problems there too. Matter of fact, it's I joke around, but I'm dead serious. Brandon in his three-year, short three-year career, it was like four scump story. I you wouldn't believe the things he touched upon. Matter of fact, I I couldn't go back in time and touch upon what he did, but he was in SEALs, and they he uh he he collapsed on the beach one morning and his leg was hurting and they wouldn't give him medical help. And he continued to try to get help, they wouldn't help him. He passed out and collapsed on the beach, they threw him in the back of a truck, took him to the bell. He wouldn't ring the bell, so they rang it for him. And that's illegal. When I say illegal, trust me, if you've been to SEALs, you would understand it is totally illegal. But two hours after they did that, that's when they drowned that kid in the pool. It was literally rule to homicide. The people were guilty. Nothing happened to them, but they were found guilty. And it was the same people that rang the bell for him. So if you're wondering, you know, is this true? Yes, it's true. The story's backed by 100% fact. Anyway, they left him at the bell, didn't take him to the doctor or anything. He called me. I made him go to medical. He went to medical. The doctor told him, Well, you have a severe shin splints. However, I'll take x-ray for the heck of it. If something's wrong, I'll call you. They called him within 15 minutes, said your legs broken in three different places, and they still kicked him out of seals, even though that was illegal. But my point being is, and I'm being quick here for you, is he while he was in there and the PEDs were rampant in there and refused to do PEDs, period. And you'll see the PED stories come to light later to the public. This was going on for years before that. And he told me all about it. It was it was actually hard for me to believe, I have to tell you, because I did so many drug tests. I I lost count at 50. Right. And I I just couldn't believe it. And and but I knew he wouldn't lie, but it was bad. And he refused to do it. And my point being is back then they were divided. You had the people that did it, the people that it didn't, the people that it didn't were a threat to the people that did.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Right. Well, the people that aren't doing it also are are probably not as strong and can't keep up with the people who are doing it, so it puts a a really bad divide between the two the two groups, and not to mention that PEDs are incredibly bad for your health, and it's it says a lot that your son wouldn't partake in that. I'm sure it was tempting when that's the way that everybody else was getting through at the time.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

So but that's why they didn't help him, is because he like it or not, people sorry, I have to break the news to you. The instructors were the ones selling the PEDs, so the instructors were in charge, and it there was the in and the out crew. Brandon was in the out crew, the out crew, that's what happens. They don't do anything to deliberately hurt you, but they're not gonna help you. And unfortunately, Brandon was a victim of that.

unknown 11:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

He did PEDs. He believes I asked him, he said if he did PEDs, they would have taken care of him. Unfortunately, he didn't want to, he wouldn't do it, so he paid the price.

New Squadron And Toxic Leadership Signs

SPEAKER_00 11:41

And what Patrick's saying about the PEDs is is very well documented. The Navy, unfortunately, hasn't ever, I think, owned the fact that, like you said, it was probably being supported or was being supported. It's hard for me to believe that none of the leadership knew that it was going on and that it was this thing that only the the teams were doing, but not not the not the and the leadership wasn't involved. So that that part I I've never quite quite believed. But so your son unfortunately is is not able to make it through SEAL school. And so then where does he go next?

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Well, on crutches, and I I it is important you understand is on crutches, he went he goes to Pensacola, goes through aviation electrician school, and then he goes to Norfolk after that to an advanced school, several advanced schools, and then he finally checks into his new lovely command in Norfolk, Virginia.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

It's a helicopter squadron, is my understanding, correct?

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Yes, H HSC 28. When he first got there, they were riding the coattails of the past, they were one of the better commands, literally there. But unfortunately, all those good people left quickly and left all the bad apples in charge. It was like a perfect storm, literally a perfect storm.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah, and and sometimes that's gonna happen. There, there are definitely a lot of commands that you go to and you can just tell. And did did did Patrick know right away? I mean, I'm sorry, did Brandon know right away that it was a bad environment? Like was he telling you that this is some this is a place I don't want to be in, or was it something that he sort of gradually took hold?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Not right away. It it was more of a gradual thing. It was quick, gradual, but it was gradual. He really got involved. I mean, he was in welfare and rec, he was running activities for them and galas and things they would hold. And uh he was heavily involved in the command. He in the in the beginning, I'm not gonna tell you he liked it there, but he uh sure he was doing very well and he always did well, even to the end. Um he was labeled the hardest best worker right out the gate, and he he was making it work and he was just gonna do his time, and then he masterminded something that was unique. We thought he was gonna go back to SEALs, he didn't want to because of the PEDs, and the uh that that was you know, that was one part in case people ask and wonder. I'm sorry, I have to backtrack quickly. Is we went to San Diego after he was, you know, we broke his leg. We were there, and I was gonna go to the SEALs and I was gonna get him back in the SEALs. I mean, I know I could. It's not because I'm special. My point is I was just gonna go there and say the kid had a broken leg. And he stopped me and told me, he said, Dad, there's no doubt in my mind you can get me back in the seals, but he said they'll never let me get through. And so I had to back away from it. I mean, I can't argue with that from somebody that's been there going through it, he would know. Uh sorry, I just had to add that in. Yeah. Um but anyway, in the new command, it uh he he was he always did well, but he he just it just kept getting worse and worse. And what that was is the new people, I mean, the new the old people were taking over and the people were leaving. And but I will tell you from the beginning, something that will floor some of you. I'd never heard this term before, literally. And remember, 15 years in recruiting, and believe me, my recruiting adventures, I've done it all. There was a time I ran the advertising department at the headquarters of recruiting. So I and we could talk about that for hours. But my point is that uh I've seen it all almost, and they called him right away a buds dud. Is this uh Jared Bros LPO of his called him? He was a first class, called him a buds dud. Unheard of, never heard of that before. And apparently it's rampant out there. So right away labeled him a buds dud and would say that in front of everybody all the time, and that bothered Brandon because he was proud of his seal thing. He made it to week three, and that's incredible, right there. Most people never make it that far. And yes, there are people obviously to make it through. I'm just pointing out that it's incredible what he did. And if you ever saw his scores, you'd fall over. He was awesome, literally in shape. But anyway, it started with that, and then this LPO just wouldn't leave him alone. And part of it was this LPO was very incompetent, very insecure, and old-fashioned. It wasn't that he was old, he was just old-fashioned, and he just didn't know his job. And Brandon was one of those people he could take something, improve it, do it faster, better than everyone, and make it easier to do. That was Brandon, and it was because it from the day I can remember he built Legos, he loved Legos, but he did everything with me. We'd build things together and then he'd master it, and then he'd be better than me at it. And uh, he just went, that's just the way he was.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Yeah, yeah. So was he working? Because I'm I'm very familiar with aviation jobs since I was also an AE at one time.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

And was he sorry to hear that now?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

I was on S3s, so a little bit different than helicopters, but I know when you go to your squadron as a undesignated airman, they typically put you in the line shack. So the line shack is where they you know paint the plane and and do panel parties and other things where they take the panels off and they clean inside the bilges and all those things. But my understand, yeah, my understanding is he didn't go to the line shack, right?

Rated Sailor Stuck In Gedunk

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Well, no, he did, and but there's some confusion there. And the command put this this is it people believe what you just said. What you said is 100% true. There's a problem. Brandon was a designated AE. Brandon went to C school, Brandon went to school, A school. That's right. He was designated, and he ended up in a line shack, but he did something, and if you did this, my apologies, but I'm gonna tell you how I feel about it. When he got there, they had him selling candy. The the G dunk, as they call it, and he sold candy for almost more than half of the three years. And that's illegal. I I've never seen such a fraud, waste, and abuse in my life. When I say that is I'll give you the math quick. Take this, cost$300,000 to send him to school. It's another hundred over$100,000 to maintain Brandon. So it's$400,000 for him. And then with medical and everything, you'd have$500,$500 per person. They had eight people working in G dunk. You could times that were north of what four or five million dollars. Take that times. There was 13 Hilo squadrons in Norfolk, Virginia. That was just Norfolk, Virginia. Now take all the air squadrons and everything with air in front of it. They all have Gedunk and people selling it. I've never seen such a waste, fraud, and abuse in my life. And the Brandon was healthy and everything. But after Gedunk, they put him in a line shack. Yes. He worked in line shack. He didn't like it, just like the rest of the people don't like it there. But they he never worked one second as an AE with three years in the Navy, advanced schooling, A schooling, the hardest best worker in the command and never worked in his shop ever. Yeah. He to give you uh some parody, he checked in the command a day after someone else before him. That person went to the shop. He didn't. The difference between the two was absolutely nothing. Luck. And the other guy never worked in the line on the flight line or in the gidunk either. Brandon had to do giddunk and the flight line. And so Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

I mean, I can tell you I have seen rated airmen go to the line shack, but typically they don't stay there very long. They go there, they do their time, and then they go right into their work center. I came to my work center myself as a petty officer third class. I was very lucky that I got sent to sent sent to sent to my work center instead of having to go to the line shack, but it it does happen. But the fact that he went to e dunk, gee dunk, now a lot of people don't know what gidunk is, and someone said selling candy. So basically every squadron has a like a fund, an MWR fund. And with that MWR fund, they go out and they buy candy and snacks and other things. And and some squadrons have a full-time Gedunk. Mine, I don't recall did. If I remember right, we sold it out of the tool room or something like that. But it is possible that they have that. But to your point about it being a waste of money, I do understand where you're coming from with that. The amount of money that it takes to put a person through a school, through a C school, through all this specialized training, and then to go and then be sent somewhere selling candy. That that's just not and then to see other people that come in behind. Now, would when he did he ever raise the issue to with his work center with his supervisors? Like, why the heck am I still in Gedunk? And what would happen? Like, were you hearing about any of like the problems he was having and how he was trying to work through them or if he was trying to work through them?

Aircrew Path Then Orders Sabotaged

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Well, can't remember. I again I'm trying to paint this picture for you. This is Brandon. Brandon is a mastermind. When I say that, he mastered selling candy. He'd take orders from them, get whatever they wanted, he'd do the candy runs and get them whenever they wanted, whatever snacks they wanted. He was making record profits for them. Literally, he just he masters everything he did. It was incredible. You dream about having a person like this, trust me. It's like there's nobody that will dispute this. They can't because it was a hundred percent fact. But Brandon Mastermindstone, my I lost track when I said it to you. Sorry. He decided he didn't want to go SEALs. And so he wanted to go air crewmen. So what he did is he in order to go air crewmen, you have to take a swim test. I I don't know. I could be wrong on my lingo, but class three swimmer, class two swimmer.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Second class swim, yes. And you have to know all the strokes, and you have to do what's called survival stroke. I went through air crew school too. So okay.

Brandon’s Death And Bystanders’ Inaction

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Well, he went to the he went to the swim qualification. There was 30 people there. None of them passed, but him. Oh, that's great. So he passed, and then he was selected for air crewman. The hardest one, which I believe is the AW one. And so he was gonna be on P4s, I guess. P3s are replaced with P4s, and he was gonna hunt submarines, and it was the hardest one to qualify for, and he did, and he was leaving the command, and that was his ticket out of Gunk. And so he was leaving, and he uh unfortunately got it got worse while he was there in spite of him leaving, but he was working through it, and he was going into work one day, and his handle grip slipped off his bike and right in front of command, literally, and he fell to the ground, broke his collarbone. And so they told him the uh he had to they were just waiting for his orders, and his orders were already in, he was supposed to leave in February. They wanted him to be healed before he left. They're saying the detailers said that. Now, mind you, he went to Pensacola, and that's where he was gonna go again, Pensacola. He went to Pensacola on crutches. Honestly, why you couldn't go to Pensacola with a broken collarbone that was in February would have been almost healed. He was cleared in March, and so he broke his collarbone, and his counselor told him that uh they're gonna the detailer called and said he's gonna cancel the orders. And as soon as Brandon's found fit for duty, he'll have him out of there in a week. Brandon was found fit for duty March 28th, and Brandon went to the counselor, said, Hey, I'm fit for duty, and look, get me out of here. And the counselor's like, I never said that. And they made him redo his package all over again. And so Brandon did. I told him to do it just to make them happy, basically. And so he was working on getting that done. He actually did complete it again, and the significance of that is that I'm gonna fast forward a couple months after he died, it dawned on me. I I just was thinking about it, and it didn't set right with me that he uh was what transpired there. So I called a detailer and I asked him, Why in the world would you make him redo his package? And he says, I don't know what you're talking about. I said, What do you mean? He goes, I've been waiting for this guy. I need him. I I I need the this is a critical rating. We don't have anybody. I need him, I've been waiting for him. And all I needed to know is he was fit for duty. He said, I didn't even cancel his orders. He said, His counselor canceled his orders. He goes, I haven't spoken to that command since September, which was in the year prior to when Brandon died. And he said, I've been waiting and I needed him. I would have had him out of there in a day. Literally, a day, I would have had him out of there. And so the command deliberately, the counselor sabotaged Browning's orders, along with there's others involved in this. The command master chief and others sabotaged Brandon's orders on purpose to keep in because he was the hardest best worker in the command and they didn't want to lose him. And so they deliberately sabotaged him. This is based by fact. And like I said, the detailer testified this to the IG and NCIS. It's in the records.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Yeah, so tell me a little bit about like what, and this is probably the hardest part of the conversation. And you can please feel free to say what you what you can or can't or or don't feel comfortable sharing, what what actually happened? I mean, how did this all culminate into into where we are today?

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Well, he came on home on leave for his birthday, which is a month before he died, and we had a great time. I mean, he was normal, everything was fine. He was going back, he'd finished the package, he was going to be leaving the command again, and he knew it. And he went back there, and they just this bros guy just started on him. What had happened is bros, the LPO left. This is part of why Brandon the the guy had it in for Brandon, more so the second time. You'll see why I say the second time than the first time. Is many people in the command that I had called through Brandon's phone because I had access to the not the phone, but the phone bill. The uh they said that that guy had a target on Brandon's back. And what had happened is he deployed, this bros guy deployed, and he got kicked off deployment for toxic abusive leadership and anger issues. So he came back and they put him back in charge. And unfortunately, Brandon was in the line shack, man, and he was in charge of Brandon. And he found out that Brandon was going air crewman and he was livid because he had nothing to do with it because he doesn't sign off on it. He has no say in the matter, and he was livid about it. So what they did is they recruited the XO and Aviation Commands. You guys know this. I'm a fleet sailor, but you do XO 18 months and you become the CEO. So they recruited the XO. The CEO loved Brandon. He used to seek Brandon out because of his smile and the fact that he was selected air crewman. He thought it was the neatest thing in the world. And that CEO was leaving, so the XO took over. They recruited him to, you know, part of their shenanigans, the toxic crowd there, to stop Brandon from leaving. So bros really stepped it up with Brandon and started really abusing him and everything. And so Brandon, he uh next thing we know, Brandon uh is you know, he's at the rope's end, not with his life. I can tell you that, and I mean that. But we know he's having a hard time in the command because of this bros guy. So I told him I'm calling the command. I called the counselor because I knew the counselor, I had spoken to him, and I and he uh he had some maintenance master chief call me, apparently. And that guy, uh God, that guy was a piece of work. And uh that guy told me he had my back and everything. He knew all about bros and everything, and he was ultimately in charge of bros. And of course, he did absolutely nothing. And so he Brandon was all I know is I I called and then I called the CMC and I talked to the command master chief Tarkowski. That guy had the IQ of a hockey puck, he was an idiot, and you guys laugh, I'm serious, and believe me, there's a lot of data on that. And but anyway, I was talking to him on the phone, and he was going round and round with me about stupid things because this guy was an idiot, trust me. And he said, I gotta go, I'll call you right back. He called me back 45 minutes later. I'm on the phone with him again, and we're going round and round in a friendly way, but it was stupid. And he uh somebody interrupts and says something to him. I don't know what they said, I have no idea what they well. I do now, but at the time I didn't, and then he said he had to go and he got out the phone with me. Next thing I know, we lost touch with Brandon, and the six hours later we have two uniformed people coming up to our door. It's one of the times it sucks if you have cameras because we knew why they were there, unfortunately. The only reason they'd come to your door, and so but anyway, they explained what happened, and what happened is he went down the flight line, he went into the flight line, and they were doing hilo ops, and he ran up to the plane captain, said words something like, sorry for your out the sea, you caught you forced me to do this, and he went to the tailrotor, the hilo. And I want mind you, there's 13 people involved in this, and they're all just watching, doing nothing, various ranks, mind you, in this command gun decks qualification. So they're not even qualified, most of them, to be honest with you, the proper way that you're supposed to be qualified. And he runs at a tail rotor, he jumps up and misses, and so he takes his helmet off, jumps up another time, and succeeds. And they all just watch, they don't tackle him, they don't grab him, they don't do anything. No one is supposed to be there like that, and they know it. And then they all run away. Every one of them ran away. No unprovided first aid, nothing. They all ran away. And the uh they left him there, and he was literally left on the flight line for eight hours, and he went from the flight line to the morgue. And while he was on the flight line, his command unlocked his phone with his fingerprint and went in his phone and erased things, and then they went in his computer and erased things, and then he left us a letter, and they took things out of the letter, so meaning that there's a beginning to the letter, it's posted on the brandonact.com. There's a beginning to letter and the end of the letter. If you read, you'll see it doesn't flow. They took the middle out, the middle incriminated them, is why. And then he probably left. Well, we sent it to uh forensic people, and his computer had a goodbye thing in their video, but they erased it and it was unrecoverable because it went to the FBI lab and the phone too. And but anyway, that's how he died, and they watched. And I mind you, he's going through a flight line that people are supposed to stop you, and that if you attempted in other commands to go through a flight line, they wouldn't even let you go 10 feet nearer a Hilo. And these people just let them go.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Was there an investigation started immediately after this happened? I mean, what what was the command telling you guys in terms of because you knew that he was facing this toxic environment? And what were they telling you in like the the first couple months afterwards? Were they responsive or were they communicative with you guys?

SPEAKER_02 33:23

No. I to give you an example of this command. We the casualty assistance officers, when they showed up, we talked to them, and they knew I was retired navy because they saw my shadow box. And they were talking to us, and we we talked to them for about a half hour. Then I called the command to talk to the CO. And this guy, you know, you speak of arrogant, man. I I gotta tell you, I I love officers, they're just so arrogant sometimes. The connection was bad. I asked the guy to call me back, he made me call him back. That that's the kind of attitude this guy had. So I'm gonna tell you what I'm dealing with. My son is dead, and this guy's playing these games with me right out the bat. He knew who I was, he knew my background, he knew he was screwed, he knew that they were done. So he uh he thought he could outsmart us. He did, actually, in a way, but he uh he never said I'm sorry, never took responsibility, never did anything. This is Dwayne Whitmer, Commander Dwayne Whitmer. You speak of a loser. Look in the dictionary, you'll see a picture of him. He uh this guy, I I can't believe it. He promised me an investigation. He they did an investigation and covered everything up. No one told the truth. They couldn't tell the truth because they were going to incriminate themselves. And there's no sign of toxic leader, anything. NCIS knew the truth, and they didn't do anything with it because no one they investigated the cause of death. Cause of death was blunt force trauma, and they made sure it matched the medical examiner report. That's what the investigation was. There was no investigation for the toxic leadership they uncovered and all the things that they uncovered. I mean, they shredded documents, they falsified statements, they threatened the command with a mutiny order. And I mean that the word mutiny, they told anybody if they talk to us or the press that they'll consider a mutiny and throw them in Lebanon where Commander Dwayne Whitmer and Commander Prouty did this along with Tarkowski, Lorette, all of them did it. They did it when the articles came out, they reinforced it. We put a huge reward out, and no one would come forward because they were so scared of these people. So I don't know what they did. Shock therapy in the back rooms, I I don't know, but they were afraid of this officer, this Dwayne Whitmer.

Taking The Fight To Congress

SPEAKER_00 35:47

I have no idea why, because but anyway, well, people just want to keep their job at the sadly at the end of the day. I really think that's I really think that's where this all comes down to is that they know if they talk to the press or they say what happened, they will face the scrutiny themselves. It's why you really can't investigate yourself. I mean, it's the most ridiculous thing in the world that we do investigations in the military on ourselves. Well, of course, we're going to come to whatever conclusion is in the best interest of the institution. That's that's the so so you have to understand that. But I that's why I was just curious at what what the investigation even said. I wouldn't be I I wouldn't think that they would find any culpability or any of the any of the factors that that led up to this. And so what was your ability to go then to like because I mean you got a a bill in Congress passed. So obviously you were able to raise the awareness of this well past the command. How did that happen? And who did you talk to?

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Well, it I got to find out we didn't know that there was so many suicides in the military. There's approximately three a day on active and 20, well, about 40 a day in veterans. And uh, we didn't know about this. I did my whole career and didn't know about it. It was covered up, or it rarely made articles. And no command I was in, no one died. I don't know, I guess it was luck. I don't know what to tell you, but it didn't. There was nobody ever died. And it but it was that and uh Whitmer in my mind and that whole command, that chain of command, and what they did. I could there's no way we're gonna let people go through this, but but a key point to push this over the edge was the casualty officers. They were on our way to our house to tell us Brandon was dead, and a news flash popped up, and they said there was a mishap in Norfolk, Virginia, and a sailor died. They had a message before them that said that Brandon was alive and in the hospital, and they were coming to tell us that. And so they pulled over and called the command and talked to Whitmer and Proudie, and they were going round and round with the command saying, Is the kid alive or dead? Because this article says he's dead. And they said, You just tell the parents he's alive and in the hospital. And they're like, No, we can't do that. And it just so happened both of them were chiefs and they didn't work for them. Wow. So they're they're like, I'm not gonna lie to them, I'm telling them the truth. And so that's what we were dealing with. And then the other thing we dealt with quickly that turned us this way is not one person came to Brandon's actual funeral. No flowers, no card, no, I'm sorry, no nothing from that command or anyone in it. And the body was escorted by an officer. And the reason it was escorted by an officer is because they didn't trust any enlisted, because they knew that I'd be interrogating them on my end. And they sent an officer to Sky Berber Creep, and he uh he left after he drops Brandon's body off and leaves, doesn't even show up for the funeral. He was supposed to hand me a flag. Apparently, I didn't know this, but if you were active duty, you lose somebody, of course, the mom gets a flag. Apparently, the dad does too. He was supposed to hand me the flag, he was gone. The color guard captain was livid. I I'd never seen a woman so mad. I can honestly say that. But one of Brandon's friends that was in San Diego that came to his funeral had to give me the flag that was in uniform. And so between that and all the shenanigans that went on in the treatment, we're like, we can't let this happen to anybody ever again. So we wrote and came up with the Brandon Act, and we decided we literally bought a brand new car, drove to DC, went door to door looking for sponsors, and we were able to get sponsors.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

And how did you know how to do any of this? Like, how did you know how to write a bill? How did you know to go to DC? I mean, that's not something that most people understand or can even take on, or under, you know, what what was the was it because you've been a recruiter you kind of thought, okay, I understand the process, or what was it?

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Well, if you ever you you ever were forced to work at the recruiting headquarters like I had to, you'd fully understand that they can't be trusted. And the military, the only ones above the military is Congress. I knew the military wouldn't do anything. I I it was obvious they weren't gonna do anything. They always allow at the top, they cover themselves. And and then, like I told you about the deaths, can you imagine? I don't care who you think of in your mind. Any admiral, again, we're picking on Navy here, general, it doesn't matter. Do you know how many deaths happened in their command along their way to get there? And do you know how many of them cause those deaths through toxic leadership? Trust me, the numbers are high.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

And that's something that we never talk about in the military. And I just want to touch on that for a second. We talk about mental health all the time. We say, oh, mental health is so important. If you need help, these are the numbers to call. Like we're very quick to do that, right? But we're not so quick to talk about what are the system systemic root causes of people who are suffering in the military. And we don't talk about the fact that toxic work environment is a big part of this. We're we're taking uh sometimes, and and maybe not this the case with your son, but we're taking sometimes people who are very vulnerable already, who we're recruiting people who may already have some mental health challenges. And then we put them in an environment where they're mistreated and where they are getting worse and worse and worse. And then we're not giving them any kind of a recourse because they they cannot expose their toxic leader. They can't expose the fact that their boss is abusing them. And this is what we don't talk about. It's never discussed in the military. I can't tell you, I've never sat through any kind of a safety stand down or anything in my whole 30 years where we actually talked about bad command climate. No, we don't. We talk about sexual assault, don't be a bystander. We talk about equal opportunity, don't be a racist, don't be this, but we never talk about toxic work environment. And it just burns me up because this is the root cause that so many people suffer from.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

So sorry, I just needed to kind of no, you're 100% correct. And the what's funny is I divided it up to Congress when I spoke before them, and I told them 40% of the commands in a military are toxic, 60 are good commands. And I said that's conservative. I think that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

I said it was conservative.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Well, mine was a toss-up, Patrick. Mine was like half good, half crap. And the and then there were some that were sort of on the on the you know, on the Rhea stat of of either good or bad. But I've had some really, really bad ones, and I've had some really outstanding ones, too, by the way. And some of those people are still serving to this day. But yeah, I mean that that is that is the the the the dirty little secret that nobody wants to talk about is is.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

Oh, you're 100% correct, and it had to stop. And the simplicity is it can be stopped. It it uh all you need is accountability. The original brand Act had accountability in it. We had to take it out. We didn't have to, but they Congress told us to take five to seven years to get it passed if we left it in. If we took it out, we get it passed right away. So you know what we took. I mean, we're losing three a day and 40 veterans a day. We're gonna freaking do whatever it takes to get something passed, and we'll then we'll amend it along the way. And that's what we've been doing is getting it amended. So, but we went to Congress because we knew DOD wouldn't cooperate, and so we got their support. Understood Brandon's story, they listened to it, they they apologized to us, and they uh they knew exactly what happened to Brandon, they they couldn't believe it. And you asked it's funny as you could ask any of them to this day that were around then, and a lot of them are still, they know Brandon's story by heart, and they know what exactly would happen to Brandon, and they really wish they could do more. And I I feel they can, don't get me wrong. I'm just pointing out that it's a like one of the most tragic stories to ever hit DC, as far as the truth backed by fact. No ifs, ands, or buts. It's our story is 100% back by fact. And so we went there, we were able to get it passed. COVID did interfere a little bit, which it interfered with everything in our nation, of course. So but we were able to get it passed, and we uh got it implemented. DOD was forced to implement it. Matter of fact, I I gotta tell you, this might be the first time people hear this, is DOD was our biggest obstacle with the Brandon Act. They didn't want it, they fought it to no end. And the way they do that is through the Armed Forces Senate Committee. And they used the two, the chairman and the vice chairman, who originally were our sponsors, they turned their back on us. Tillis and that other guy's name. Uh I forget his name. He was actually Tillis was the co-chairman, and they turned their backs on us. But because DOD didn't want it and they wanted to appease DOD, that's how DOD stops things they don't want, is they control the armed forces senate committee somewhat. And so DOD was our biggest obstacle, but we were able to get it passed in spite of DOD. And the so we got it passed. Next was to get it implemented.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

And and what in I hate to just, I just want to just for the people that don't know what the Brandon Act does, is what does the what does it do that we didn't have before?

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Well, it's actually unique and it does several things. It is a you know, it it will always forever be tied to mental health, like it or not. But what it is is it entitles you to mental health. No, you're not entitled to mental health to join the military. Yes, I sold everybody that they are, but they're apparently they're not. Uh they weren't until the Brandon Act, entitled to mental health. Yeah, you're entitled to medical, but apparently you're not titled to go see uh psychologist or psychiatrist. Um really so I commands wouldn't let they would talk you out of it, they would tell you that it'll ruin your career. They wouldn't let you go. They wouldn't let you go.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

But I never thought about the fact that it's not required. Like, like it is like if you break your arm, yes, it's required. You're you're gonna go and get your arm repaired.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Correct, but you're you're in crisis, you need help. If you're in crisis, you know how many people told us the feud that came forward, every one of them had the same story. Brandon said, I'm depressed, I need help. They told him to suck it up, get back to work. I I mean that was con everyone, they told everybody this, not just Brandon, everybody got the same line, fleet wide, and and you could say DOD-wide and it everywhere, even the sacred air force, who no longer is what it used to be. That's not you know, don't take that the wrong way. My point is they turned into what the Navy did. You know, they used to be the best service, they're there as far as treating their people, but they're not. They they lead the way in suicide, usually. So you tell me. But go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

No, I was just gonna ask. So so basically what it is is that my understanding of the Brandon Act is that it it is a provision that if you say you need to, you are you are needing help, your your supervisor or your bosses, they have to allow you the opportunity to go to mental health, no questions asked. Is that is that my understanding?

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Yeah, yes, except for it's also as confidentiality. You could say I I have some issues I'm dealing with. You don't have to tell them what it is, and you could go to mental health yourself. But if you tell them the uh you can uh get help immediately and go. You're you're entitled to go, period. And during working hours, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Right. Now, I have I have to play devil's advocate. I'm sure you were asked this as you worked the policy issues, because I'm just curious what keeps the sadly the the the the bad apples, the people that will abuse this, because there are people that will do that. There, I mean that's that's the the hard part about this. There's going to be people who are gonna say, well, uh something's wrong with me when really they are truly trying to get out of work. Like, how do we as leaders differentiate between the people that are really in need of help and then the people that are just gonna use the Brandon Act for their own benefit? Was did that ever come up as you guys were debating this? It it did come up.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

And the thing about it is most people that use it, they they don't need much help, they need a little help. So because you it, you know, one thing about a psychologist, they're not for the command, they're not for you, they're neutral. They teach you how to deal with things and how to get through things, and they give you alternative ways to do it, and sometimes medication can help, uh, hard cases, but it's not it's not a forever thing. And if it was a forever thing, you have to look at it this way. You have to weigh the good and the bad with it. You like to believe most people are honest and they're going there for real for a reason. The ones that aren't, those people can get out of the military anyway. They're gonna find a way out and they're gonna find another way to lose them. And the solution I can tell you is not to lose them in a pine box because it takes a year to a two years to replace somebody that dies. So you'll be without people for two years if you can't take care of your people. So it the lesser evil is to get them the help they need, and I think that they'll come back and they'll be fine. And there's been many success, there's way more success stories than not. Matter of fact, there is no negative story out there because the Brandon app protects them against retaliation.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

I will tell you, as a as a supervisor, if someone told me they needed to go to medical, it was no questions asked. Didn't matter what for, it didn't matter when. I and I and I didn't spend my time caring about whether or not it was a real issue or a non-real issue. It was it didn't matter. It's you need to go to medical, you're gonna go to medical. If you need to get care, you're gonna go get care. No questions asked. That was just the way I operated, and I think that's just the better way to be. And like you said, the lesser of the two evils, and I think people people can understand that.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

I again anybody gonna use anything, but that's not what's happening with it. The few, you know, the thousands that have used it has been total success stories, and the supportive commands, those people go like four or five different sessions and they're fine, and they're coming back better than ever. I mean, they're getting it.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

And they're glad that their command supported them.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Yep. Oh, yeah. And then and like I said, they feel part of a team. That's what you want to. Everybody wants to be part of the team, like it or not. You know, it's just the human, the humanity in us. We want to be part of a team. Now you feel more like it because they cared about you, and you got killed and you're good to go. And now you also learn when you go up in rank how to get other people help and to help them, correct? And that that's important too.

Fixing Enforcement With Real Consequences

SPEAKER_00 51:29

So now the bill, the way it has stood now is that there's just no consequences, sadly, for the people who who are not following the Brandon Act. And so, right now that's what you guys are working on in terms of amendments.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

Correct, but there's uniqueness to the Brandon Act that we skipped over. I told you it's tied to mental health. Remember something. What happened with the Brandon Act is the way we got it passed, and the way it got passed is you can invoke it for anything. You can invoke if you were sexually harassed or sold and you invoke the Brandon Act. If you're being abused, invoke the Brandon Act. If you anything you can think of, you can invoke the Brandon Act. It just was so vaguely written that we we made it that way on purpose that you can invoke the Brandon Act for anything and not be retaliated against. And by going to Congress, it is a law. It is the law of the land, like it or not. Admirals, tough. It is the law. If your COs don't comply with it, they broke the law. What's gonna happen? Well, unfortunately, that that's a part left up to them, but they broke the law. And I can tell you this if somebody dies and you break the law, I'd hate to be that CO. They'll be relieved on the spot. You can take that to the bank, violate the Brandon Act, and somebody dies, you you'll be relieved, and you might be charged. You might actually get charged. I wouldn't want to be that CO. They're out there, I know that because I know the arrogance of some of these commanders. They think they're kings, they sit on a throne. They don't, but they think they do. But it is the law of the land. But we are writing amendments to it to get more teeth into it. And apparently we have to spell out consequences because you know the military they they reinvent the wheel.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

And that's the the interesting part about all this is that are you guys in the position where you're out actually having to draft the legislation and then send it over to them, or are there certain congress people that you're working with to kind of fine-tune what it's going to look like?

SPEAKER_02 53:29

It's both. We're fortunate one of our uh people that help us used to be the he's the undersecretary that signed the Brandon Act for DOD. It's uh Congressman Cisneros in California. He he was the under-secretary at the time. He's the one that signed the Brandon Act into law for the military at DOD. And he helps us. They all help us. We all work with their staffs, and it's mutual thing. We go back and forth and put things together. It's not as fast as I'd like it to be. I'm not gonna deny that to you. And it is a slow process, but uh they're very cooperative. But like I said, Capitol Hill knows what happened, they really want to do something. I can tell you this when it comes to this subject, they are very caring people about this and they really want to do something about it. It I mean, like Senator Kane, he's a champion. I I mean, it seems like he said every week a parent is calling them to lost their son or daughter in Norfolk. I mean, it's just terrible to deal with as a senator and being in his staffs have to deal with it. I mean, it's just horrible.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

I didn't know it was three a day on active duty. That that is really, really something. I mean, I have been in commands where where someone took their life. I've been on aircraft carriers and they're you know very big commands, and there it does happen, but I had no idea that throughout the Department of Defense there are three people each day who who take their life. And again, I I think that the way that we've tackled suicide with suicide awareness and other things, it just it it hasn't it hasn't been effective. I mean, it's not reducing the numbers, it's not driving down the numbers. And I believe that creating safe working environments is the solution. There really isn't any other solution than creating safe working environments.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

And that is the positive way to do it. We're all for it, don't get me wrong, but I will tell you this I could fix suicide tomorrow. Just I'd I'll use Brandon's CO as an example. They should have taken that man away in handcuffs immediately. Take away three COs in handcuffs, suicides will go to zero. Trust me. And I and I'll tell you the proof about it if anybody has any doubts. The ship collisions. I'm here to tell you, and I'll stand by this to the end. It's impossible for a ship to collide with another ship. We had so many safeguards in place, it was pathetic, but uh it was important. Yet we have uh two ship collisions in a month, but not only have two ship collisions, people died. And those SEALs, for the first time in the history of the Navy, were gonna go to jail. They were literally going to jail, they're gonna be held accountable for those deaths. The public was outraged, and they didn't go to jail, and nothing happened to them in the end. Fine, they lost their command. But that for killing people, that's a heck of a price, a heck of a deal. But point being is the Navy went before Congress, so oh, we put all these new safeguards in place. They didn't change anything. The only thing that changed is if you're a CO and you qualify somebody to drive the ship, they could drive a blindfold or you won't qualify them. And and and so you could sleep at night. They raised the bar on the qualification standards the way it was supposed to be, and made sure that everybody was fully qualified to do what they're supposed to do. That is accountability. Accountability saved it. Those COs are afraid of losing their jobs. That is what solved the ship collisions. And I'm talking about the actual collision, I'm talking about if a ship's deliberately going into you, that's a little different. So, my point being is you hold COs accountable to any debt. I don't care how it happens. How do you do that? It's simple. They do this in England, they do it, well, Canada's part of England, right? They do it in other militaries, they have boards of inquiry like we do when a plane goes down. You have a board of inquiry for any death. And what they do is they use these findings to fix the problem, to prevent it from happening again, and to hold people accountable for what happened. And it's a lessons learned thing. That is how you fix suicide. And in a summary, one word accountability. That's exactly what that does. It's countability. It's telling you what you did wrong, what you did right, what you didn't do, and what you need to do, and what you need to do as a whole, DOD, not just one command. And that is what could solve these suicides accountability.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

I would also be interested that we've got a couple guy come uh commenting, Alex Harper, and and he he says some good points. He first he he very well defined, put up what the Brandon Act is, which I think is really important for people to understand what the bill says. But then a couple other things that he said I thought are are interesting as well. And and by but by no means am I saying, I mean, Patrick, I I I have had some good commanding officers, one of them in particular, Admiral Brad Cooper, one of the best COs I've ever worked for. In fact, the best CAO I ever worked for. And so there were there are some good people out there. The problem is, like you said, I think it's maybe the 60-40 rule. And I think that that's and that's just my subjective opinion about it as well, is that I do think that there it's a toss-up what kind of command you're gonna get and what kind of leaders you're gonna get. But another thing, too, is that there we we want to also when we talk about suicide, we want to look at things like are the suicide rates on college campuses, are they the same as the suicide rate for as as junior service members? What what are those differences and and those other kinds of things? So I this is such a such an intense topic that really needs to be studied and really needs to be analyzed. And I do believe that toxic environments are a part of it. I don't know if it's they're the every single reason why someone would would take their life. I think there are also people who are struggling in other areas with domestic violence, with with their relationship struggles. I and I can tell you, like as a sailor myself, a lot of my issues were more interpersonal relationships, but they were relationships with people that I worked with that I was having struggles with. So I definitely want to say that, yeah, we're not, at least I'm not saying that all commanding officers are bad, but there are unfortunately poor leaders who are allowed to thrive and able to thrive in the military. And that's what happened with your son.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

Right, right. But there's there is data out there on some things. One one example to you is what you said about the colleges on the surface. If you compare the numbers, there's similar numbers. The problem is that those people aren't fed, they don't have benefits, they aren't paid. It there's totally difference in dynamics. I mean, military people have it all. And you're comparing these numbers to people on the street, people that live in poverty. None of that really pertains to a military service member, somewhat. But the most startling thing is the 17 to 21 and 20 actually is to 24-year-olds. That is the startling number. Most of them are in that category. And what that is, is I talked about in the beginning, society dictates policy. We live by society's rules, and these kids were raised, so millennials in the new generation, they were raised differently, they were totally raised differently. We saw to that, and so they were different worlds. I mean, look at high school. I mean, the bullies are gone. They're gone. They're they're you don't see them again, they disappear if they try to exist. Schools got it down, everywhere's got it down, college has got it down. You know, bullies in college. It's the world has changed. Said we're not gonna take it, we're not gonna tolerate it anymore. That has changed. The military has not. That that's where your problem is. It's like going to high going back in time to high school, and then except for they own you and you're trapped, and there's no way out. That that's exactly how you feel. And unfortunately, you the only way you feel out is to take your life. But the relationship problems and all that, if you that data was looked at and by experts, and dod knows this. There's hardly any. The top 10 reasons in the for like gambling, relationships, divorce, things of that nature, they're all the top reason in debtness. None of that pertains to most of the military people taking their lives. None of that is their reason of taking their life. Those are the top 10. And the civilian, the military, that's not what's going on. So the toxic commands are a huge part of this, but it's the care factor. I mean, I will tell you this. Our son is dead. I I will never get over that. Command could care less that Brandon's dead. A matter of fact, they benefited, they got rewards, awards, advancement. The toxic team made sure of it to keep their mouths shut. They benefit from it. They're getting disability, every one of them. 100% paid by the taxpayers, of course. All because of our son's death, and they don't even care that he died. I will never get over that. I mean, I've met some cold people in my life and heartless people, but I gotta tell you, those people take the prize. I've never seen anything like it. I never get over they don't care that the kindest, nicest person in their command and the hardest, best worker in their command is dead and they could care less to include people that were supposedly his friends. Unbelievable. Yet here in Phoenix, his true friends, devastated. People in San Diego, devastated family, devastated. But his command didn't care. Never get over that. If I didn't know somebody in command and they died and I was in it, it never happened. But if I was, I would care. Even if I didn't know them, I care that they were dead. Last time I look, when you're dead, you don't come back.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

Yeah. I I I will say I am so sorry for what you and your family have gone through. And there's really nothing that that that could that can that can make up for that. The the the wonderful thing that has happened with you and your wife is that you've taken this tragedy and you've turned it into something that can help help others and have created a legacy for other people. You could have not done any of that, but you did get a law passed. You are working the amendments, and yeah, I know you have a team of people that you're working with to try to get this through. And I I really do wish you all the best. And and whatever I can do to help spread this message, I will do because this is so important and it needs to be talked about more. It's hard to talk about, but it needs to be talked about.

Awareness Gap And Foundation Support

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

I I agree. That was the hardest part was talking about something that nobody wants to talk about and that they don't know about. That awareness, that is one thing I could tell you. Awareness is free for the most part, and awareness, Brandon's story saves lives because it's backed by fact. And the Brandon Act saves life, and knowing about it saves lives. It's important. That awareness factor is huge. We estimate out of the 2.1 million on active duty that only 10% know about the Brandon Act. That's sad. We get calls every day. Terry handles those. I they don't know about it. We have commands calling us. We have Japan, we got what was the other one? Germany, they're calling us. These people don't know about the Brandon Act. These are psychologists calling us, military psychologists calling us. Nobody knows about it when I say that. So the awareness factor is huge. And then we have our foundation, our foundation helps active duty. We help everyone. You don't have to be, I mean, we help veterans, of course, but I'm saying is we help anybody. It doesn't matter if you are in or not. But my point is we help them and we we do training, we we understand the brand act better than anybody. And we do we have a scholarship at Arizona State University for in psychology. We have we do benches for the fallen uh when we can. Of course, all this stuff, if we have money, we do it, of course, or when the money comes in, we do it. But we're 100% of what we get goes out. We don't draw salaries or anything. So, anyway, our foundation's here for you. We actually, like I said, Terry will answer the phone if you call. Hopefully, you're calling on better terms than most people call, meaning they're calling because they lost their son or daughter and they found. Out the brand about the Brandon Act after the fact. That's sad. We wish the Brandon Act existed when our son was alive because we believe he'd be alive today. That was the whole point of it. But you are right about the tragedy into something. We're very proud of that. And we did put all our energy in it, but it doesn't change what happened. It doesn't change that these people didn't come forward. It doesn't change that they couldn't tell the truth. It doesn't change that you know, a service member is supposed to be in the highest position of trust and no accountability ever happened, and these people got away with murder, and they continue to wouldn't believe the stories we hear. And unfortunately, I hate to break the news to you. You have alluded to it. There are literally hundreds of thousands of Brandons out there. We believe me. We've talked to the parents, and the parents are the victims. And the public doesn't know about this. The public needs to know about this. And the reason being you need to know that I know everybody knows that there's a war you could lose your son or daughter. We all know this, okay? I know we all know it. But what we don't know is these people are dying stateside and dying by mostly their command. And it's the last thing you would expect is two uniform people to come to your door and tell your son or daughter's dead. But the problem is worse than that. This accountability factor, as harsh as it may sound at times to some people, these people, you need to understand, no one thinks about what I'm about to say. This is factual. Okay. Last time I looked, most people do four years and get out. Okay, those people are veterans, those veterans get jobs. They work at Google, they work at Honeywell, they work there, they're in charge. Okay. Remember, they were trained by the best toxic leaders that ever walked. What do you think? They changed. You think that your son or daughter can't be manipulated in debt by them? Are you crazy? I mean, come on. That that's the problem. These people retire, they get these jobs. They're profess, they become professors, they're all over the place, they're all around us.

How To Use Your Rights Now

SPEAKER_00 1:08:00

I agree, Patrick. You know, one of the reasons I never wanted to work again after the military was because of toxic work environments. I mean, that that's I'm just being honest with you. I set up my entire life so that I would never have to work after the Navy. I don't tell a lot of people that, but that was my motivation. I'm in my late 20s. When I got picked up for stay 21, I said, you know what? I'm gonna do my 20. And at that point, I was only gonna make it to 04, but I will never deal with this ever again in a work center, in a workplace. And the only way to ensure that that never happens is to be able to thankfully uh use passive income. There was no other, there was no other option in my mind. And and that's because of all the toxic work environments I I had in the military. And I knew that and I and I just knew, like you said, people are humans are humans. Humans are gonna keep humaning, and there's your cat. But the I and so I just I I I wanted that freedom and I wanted that that financial stability. But I want to thank you so much for for coming on the show and for sharing your story. I know this was a difficult conversation, and I know for all of you who are watching, thank you so much for sticking around with us and and hearing this conversation. Please share this conversation with other people. Tell people about the Brandon Act. Like you said, a lot of this is that people don't even know about it. So Google it, Google the Brandon Act, tell your work centers about it, tell your friends about it. And if people have questions and they want to get a hold of you, I did show it, I'll show it again. There's the Brandon Caserta Foundation.org. You can go on their website. Like you said, your wife Terry, she answers the phone. Just just we're rooting for you. And I want to see those amendments passed. I want to see the bill tightened up. I I want to see this happen. I want to see us push this to the finish line. I'm so glad there are legislators that care enough about this issue that are working this with you guys. And uh, we had a lot of people who tuned in during during the show and uh are are watching it or have been paying attention as we've been doing it. So thank you so much. I like I said, I know this was a tough conversation, but I think it's something we have to say. Before we get off, is there any parting words or anything else you'd like to tell the audience?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

Yes, know the rules when I say that, the brand and act, and know that. So know the key rules that protect you, protect yourself. And remember, you can report people anonymously. That hasn't gone away. Anonymous can solve problems. Like I said, if enough of you complain, you don't know you're complaining because you're anonymous, right? So, but others in your command might be complaining. That that toxic leaders hate it when you anonymously complain because they uh get investigated or talked to. And but anyway, know the rules, please. You got to know those rules to protect you and how you can get help and how you can get help for your people you work for. You brag, I you take care of people. Taking care of your people is mental health is part of taking care of your people. Remember that in a safe work environment. Obviously, you want to have that and you need that. And I just want to thank you for having me. We really appreciate it. And and anybody needs anything, we're here for you. We'll do anything we can to help. Uh, we'll guide you, get you help you need the best that we can. But we just want you to know we stand the watch with you and for you, and we're here for you, and we we mean that. We dedicate the rest of our lives to this. Again, it's Brandon's legacy is saving lives, and that's what we believe, and we're going to keep it that way. And that's what we do, and we love what we do. And it's not an easy job, but somebody had to do it, and we felt that we were the ones to take the torch and we'll continue to do it. So we thank all of you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:34

All right. Well, thank you, Patrick. And I know, Terry, you were just sitting there a little bit backstage, helping, helping, helping us out and giving us some advice as we got through this. So thank you so much to both of you. I will meet you backstage, Patrick, as I go full screen and say goodbye to the audience. But thank you again for tuning in to the Stories of Service podcast. I will have a pre-recorded show next week. I'm actually going to be interviewing the author of the book Torched. It's about how the LA fires and Palisades truly went down in terms of the response and what didn't or did happen during that incident and the rush to rebuild to prepare for the Olympics. So as a pre recorded show, uh, the author's book drops next week. So I will be doing a pre recorded live on that. Tune in this coming Thursday. And with that, as I always say to end these calls, please take care of yourselves. Please take care of each other and enjoy the rest of your evening. Bye bye now.