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Smart Sex, Smart Love with Dr Joe Kort
Kali Scales: Is the Spotlight on Me as Trans, or Me as a Candidate for Office?
“I often am asked, ‘why on earth would you want to run for office in such dangerous political times?’ My response is simple: if we back down now when we are afraid, we’ve already lost.” Kali Scales is running for State Representative of District 5, which encompasses Oak Park, Royal Oak Township and Northwest Detroit. If she wins, she will be the first transgender person elected to an office in Michigan. The question that naturally comes to mind for many, including Scales, is this: “will they vote for me because I am trans, or will they vote for me because they support the issues I stand by?” Her campaign focuses on “Back to Basics” – AEIOU: autonomy, education, inclusivity, opportunities and unions. “A good and honest life is built on these,” she asserts.
The nationally syndicated radio host, writer, performer and storyteller has been in the public eye since she was 16. “I came out of the closet publicly, I did my whole transition publicly, and I’ve seen some of the best and worst that humanity has to offer,” she notes. “It’s time to make the world know we are not going to stand for what is happening now. This will help combat the feelings of hopelessness and loneliness a lot of people are dealing with. Fear thrives in loneliness; many feel the decision already has been made, but that day is not here yet! There still is hope. Get involved! Stay in the fight. We need you, and we will see the other side of this,” she says with confidence.
Listen to this inspiring Smart Sex, Smart Love podcast where I ask Kali Scales some tough questions about the current political climate, the new pressures and divisiveness the LGBTQIA community is encountering, and how she will handle the personal attacks that already are coming her way since she has entered the political race.
Welcome to Smart sex, smart love, where talking about sex goes beyond the taboo and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. My guest today is Kali scales, a writer, performer and storyteller dedicated to the concepts of never punching down, always striving for inclusivity and spreading the message of hope. She was a nationally syndicated radio host and the founder of eSports illustrated Callie now has turned her attention to politics. She's running for state representative of district five, representing Oak Park, Michigan, Warrilow Township, Michigan, and northwest Detroit, Michigan. If she wins, she'll be the first transgender person elected to an office in Michigan today, Callie, we'll be talking about trans community in politics. Welcome, Callie, man, I gotta tell you, everywhere I go, I need someone to just like Herald me as I walk in like that. That was a lovely intro. Thank you. You're welcome. It's good for you. It represents you, right? And I love this timely podcast we're going to do because people want to hear about this. People we need to. I think what you're doing is creating safety for trans people. And I want your word to be spread around.
Kali Scales:Yeah, I think a lot of what I hear right now is thank you for deciding to run. And also, why on earth would you decide to run right now? It's so scary out there, and obviously in the in the wake of Charlie Kirk and in the wake of all these incidents happening, a lot of people are just thinking like, you know, you're putting yourself out there, and you're putting yourself in danger right now. And I think it's kind of because of those things that we need to be visible and out there and continuing to fight for our rights, if we back down because we're afraid we've already lost.
JOE KORT:Yeah, this is the spirit we all had in the 80s and 90s, when my husband and I were coming up as gays, right? And you got to have that. So let's start with that first question. It dovetails right into what you said. Why did you decide to run for office to begin with. And what's your story behind this decision?
Kali Scales:Yeah, you know, I was at a Democrats of South Oakland County meeting, and while we were there, one of our state representatives, Natalie price, was speaking, and she was talking about how a piece of anti trans legislation had passed the Michigan House, and some Democrats even had voted for it. And while that's never going to become law because Democrats control the Senate and that's never going to pass there, the thought occurred to me at that moment that, hey, if that had passed, it would have gotten through with no trans people in the off or in legislation, to at least speak about it. So I kind of had this thought in my head of, if you're going to pass this kind of garbage, you're going to at least look a trans person in the eyes when you do it. And that's kind of what inspired me to decide to run for office. I was originally going to be running for school board this year, but some things fell into place, and here I am running for state rep in my first go around, which is terrifying. Yeah. What terrifies you about it? You know, it is just it's so much to keep track of. Just earlier today, I was doing my first campaign finance filing, and, you know, learning the ins and outs of working through Michigan's completely well built and wonderful system that doesn't have any problems whatsoever, and trying to, you know, you don't want to get dinged with a campaign finance violation on your first go around. There's just so much to remember.
JOE KORT:Yeah, I'll bet, do you think the spotlight will focus on you as a trans person versus the issues you stand on?
Kali Scales:You know, I tell people a lot that I'm I am a trans person running, and it is true, as you mentioned, if I win, I'll be the first one elected to office in Michigan. But that's not something that anyone's just gonna vote for out of you know, for the heck of it, you know what I mean? Like, you still got to run on the issues I'm running. My campaign is called Back to Basics. I'm running on my aeio use, which are autonomy, education, inclusivity, opportunities and unions and either side of the aisle. I don't care who you are, you should be able to get on board with those five things. Those are five things that a good, honest life is built upon. So you know that should be something you can support no matter who you are, what side of the aisle you're on, and yes, I do also happen to be trans, but that's not what I'm running on
JOE KORT:Exactly. Do you think the messages could get lost because you're trans, from their point of view, their projection on you?
Kali Scales:I have no doubt the day will come where I have to, you know, turn the focus to Yes, I'm trans. Yes, these are my beliefs about things. But you know, that's been the reality of it. Now, for the past 810, years, almost, you know, we went from having Trans Day of visibility to a lot of trans people thinking, God, I wish we could have Trans Day of invisibility. I'm tired of being in the spotlight. We are a relatively, very small percentage of the population, and we have been blown up into such a major issue, all on the backs of just, you know, othering. And I always say conservatism functions on a boogeyman, and if it's not trans people, it'll be someone else. But we have take we're taking our turn as the boogeyman for right now, and we have been for the last decade or so. And it's, it's a tough thing. I hope people coming away from hearing me speak at any event would come away thinking, you know, oh, she is for the people. She wants to help people, and not just oh, she's transgender, which I am, and I'm proudly so. But the goal in doing this is to help people in general.
JOE KORT:My next question you already started answering, but I'm going to ask it anyways to expand on it. Do you feel trans people are being targeted in modern politics? Because a lot of people say no,
Kali Scales:well, I would be, I would be hard pressed to understand in what way you would say no to that, or anyone would say no to that. Yes, I think that we the transgender community, because it is small, because it has for so long, been either pushed to the side, ignored or flat out erased throughout history, they make, we make for an easy community of people to attack and point at and say, Wow, that's weird, because on the whole of it, we are so ingrained in our gender from the time we're born, you know, right down to you always hear about, you know, is the baby dressed in pink, or is the Baby dressed in blue, like our gender is put upon us from the time we are very, very young. And because of that, when someone bucks that trend, which is holds true almost throughout all of America, you go, well, that's a strange thing. That's weird. And it's very easy to blow something up into a hysteria. We hear it all the time with you know, people are, oh, there's men and women's sports because of trans people, or they're gonna prey on me in the bathroom, or all these things. And I always tell people like you, can acknowledge the fear without making it like, without legitimizing it, right? I agree it would be horrific if someone pretended to be trans to go into the bathroom so they could peep on somebody. But that's still illegal, and it doesn't happen. So it isn't like this. I think we're trying to legalize that. It's just this is someone who needs to go to the bathroom, and, you know, they go to the bathroom that makes sense to them.
JOE KORT:Let's go back. You completely froze. You said that doesn't happen. Go back to that.
Kali Scales:Okay, gotcha. Yeah, it's one of those things where people like to blow it up and make it a bigger issue than it actually is, because it makes for a good sound bite or a good headline in the 24 hours news cycle, or any other myriad reasons. When you can make someone afraid of someone else, it's a lot easier to get them on your side, and that is the methodology that conservatism has used for ever.
JOE KORT:As a 62 year old gay guy, I got to tell you, watching it happen to trans people has been so weird for me, because it's like I'm watching on the outside. I've gone back in time to see what they did to homosexuals preying on children. You know, there's no such thing as a gay child, you know,
Kali Scales:yes, what one think of the children the old go to?
JOE KORT:Oh, my God. Anyways, it's just it. So I do think there's an attack on trans people, and it's hard for me to even understand when someone says, I don't see it, and then people will say, Well, what rights have been taken from them? What would you say to that? What rights have been taken from us?
Kali Scales:I think it's,how about my right to peace of mind? How about my right to not have to be afraid every time I talk to somebody on the street and wonder, is this person going to be a bigot? Are they going to mean me harm, to have to worry? Are the police going to have my back because trans people are statistically more likely to not be taken seriously or targeted by the police, to be more likely to be under or unemployed, to be, how about to have my very rights debated in a body that I have no representation in. These are all things that are happening right now, and they're all results of the othering that has come about through various legislation. There's been over what is it? Over 1000 pieces of anti trans legislation brought up in legislatures across America since 2023 or 2024 I think it is like these are all real things that are happening. So no, I it's not a case of, well, we're all being put in camps yet, but it is a case of, you make it okay to take away one thing, or to do something in the name of common sense, or in the name of, won't someone think of the children, so that you can more easily set up the next thing that you're going to take away and the next thing you're going to do, it's already getting harder to get, depending on which state you live in, getting harder to get your hormone therapies and the things that you need. We see it all the time with talking about, you know, at what age can a kid consent to getting hormone therapies? And that's a major sticking point. It's, it is a death by 100 cuts sort of thing,
JOE KORT:yeah. What's been your experience, if you're willing to share about coming out trans yourself?
Kali Scales:Yeah. I think for me personally, I always tell people I had it. I had it pretty easy. My parents were they didn't get it, but they were understanding. They wanted to be whatever makes you happy, that that sort of thing. I was so fortunate to be dating my one my now wife at the time, and she was actually one of the first people, because I used to tell call myself gender fluid or BI gendered, and I wasn't ready to quite adopt the trans label for myself when I first came out. And she was the one who pointed out to me, you're only happy when you're presenting feminine. You're only happy. You only smile when you're presenting feminine. And that was kind of a big moment of, oh, yeah, I guess that's probably accurate. And no. And since I've started transition, I started transitioning at 30, and it has been a wonderful journey to get to live as my authentic self, and to go through some of the various phases. I went through my Disney Princess phase, where I had to be perfectly feminine, beautiful all the time. Now I joke them in my punk lesbian phase, where I don't owe you no femininity. I don't owe you nothing anymore. And you know, we go through these different phases, because when we're kids, we didn't get to experience them. You know, you see the the young girl who tries on crazy makeup combinations and trade crazy clothes combinations as they're trying to find their their style, and some of us are going through that phase a little bit later in life, as we're trying to figure it all out. But for me, it has gone relatively well. Of course, you mentioned I'm a radio host, and I've have a fairly big community, and unsurprisingly, it has a lot of trans women in it, and every year, I know at Thanksgiving time that I need to put out a special message for them, because many of them can't go home to family. Many of them are spending Thanksgiving by themselves because their families will not allow them back. And I always think of how grateful I am that I got to have a good experience, and it's one of the reasons now that I am running and trying to be a voice and using the voice that I've developed for my community, because I feel like I kind of need to pay that back. I need to pay that forward. I would like for the next generation to not have to worry about whether or not they're going to be able to go home at Thanksgiving.
JOE KORT:When you said you started your transition at 30 How old are you now?
Kali Scales:36
JOE KORT:36 so six years? All right, yes, I saw a meme today. I've seen it before where it said something like, when you see a child who doesn't believe they are the gender they were born, you are witnessing a mentally ill parent. And it reminds me of when I was a kid, and it still exists. Some people still think that the homosexual is a product of a smothering mother and an absent father. Idea is that a child doesn't know their own orientation and that they don't also know their own gender identity. What do you say to that?
Kali Scales:Get a grip. I think is what I have to say to that. So here I'll give you an example I growing up, I didn't know that I was trans. You hear some trans kids, know, very early on, some as early as four or five years old. Some, they're a little bit later. I was probably 12 or 13 when I started realizing something wasn't right, and I didn't have the words for it. I hadn't I didn't know what being trans men, I didn't know the words gender dysphoria. All I knew was that something was wrong, and I would look in the mirror and I would not like what I saw, and I couldn't put my finger on why. And I remember vividly. I went and talked to my mom, and I told her, I hate the way that I look. And she told me, you know, she told me what any parent who loves their kid would tell them, You're perfect, you you're wonderful, you're so handsome, you're great. And she didn't do that out of malice or anything. She did that because she loved me and she wanted me to be happy. And so as I'm coming away from that though, now, all I'm thinking is, okay, she doesn't see it. Fast forward to college. I go see a therapist because I'm still struggling with it, and that therapist tells me I'm having trouble adjusting to being in college and out of high school, which was partially true because I was undiagnosed ADHD, and so I was having some trouble. But they said, you know, it'll pass, and you don't have to worry about it didn't pass. It just gets worse and worse, and you feel so lonely because you can see something that's wrong with you that no one else can see, no one else can touch on it. And a few years after that, I was 24 years old, and my good friend of mine tells me, You need to go see another therapist or I'm going to start sending our chat logs to your parents, because I'm afraid you're going to hurt yourself, and I called her a lot of very mean words, but I did because I didn't want that. So I went and saw a therapist, and that therapist had a trans daughter, and she knew gender dysphoria when she saw it, and she saved my life. She helped with she turned my life around from a place where it was getting real dark and real bad that saved me. And I tell that long story to say this, I knew nothing about being trans. I knew I didn't know the words, I didn't know that that was a thing that could happen, and I still was. I still went through it. You cannot hide children from it and think that that's going to keep them from actually experiencing it. All you're doing is making them feel isolated and alone. If your kid is coming to you and telling you that they don't feel right presenting as the gender that they are, recognize two things. One, they're probably for real about it. Now, they may not stay with that. They may try something different out and then ultimately decide that's not for them. And two, realize how cool it is that your kid feels like they can safely tell you what is probably the scariest thing going on in their life. You should feel very proud that your child can tell you that
JOE KORT:I agree 100% I agree with you. What do you think about this new divisive we're going to be LGB, and we're divorcing ourselves from the trans and the non binary. What do you think about that?
Kali Scales:Obviously, I think it's short sighted. I think it is, more often than not, a ploy from someone who isn't part of the community, to try to divide the community. I think we as a community the as it was, you know, LGB, and now, you know, there's asexual and there's gender, or there's a queer identifying that's a thing as well. And at the end of the day, it is all this kind of homogeny of who you are and who you love, it is your representation of you. And throughout history, going all the way back to you know, Roman times and beyond, there have been alternate presentations of gender and of of who you love, but those are also things that have been used to other people throughout history. They have been used as an attack on people throughout history, and that is why I think our community is so tightly knit and also welcoming of people. When you don't seem to fit the mold, you are usually welcome and able to find a space in our community, and we are powerful together. I think a lot of people have figured that out over the years, and again, you going back to the 80s and the gay movement of the time, that was a very pivotal moment in LGBTQ history, and now they're trying to split that faction off. They're trying to split off the the trans and the bigendered or intersex communities from there, because that makes a much smaller, easier to handle target and that. But we also know this, it never ends at just the first target. And that's not how it functions. It'll if you they get rid of all the trans people, then they'll come for the bisexuals. And already, bisexuals deal with erasure and not feeling like a part of that community, and then you've got them down to, okay, well now there's just lesbians and gays. How do we split that? Oh, well, women are a great target there. We'll split them off, and that's how you break down this coalition. And we cannot allow that.
JOE KORT:I agree with you. So tell me what? So if we get away from the trends for a minute and just what are the issues you're going to deal with in office, like, what are your politics?
Kali Scales:Oh, well, I always tell people, I think you can look at me and usually know my politics like you. No one looks at me and goes, Ah, yes. Hard, right. Christian nationalist, absolutely. I mentioned earlier that I'm running on my aeio Use I am running in a majority black district, and so it is my intention to join the Black Caucus. I've already joined the state level Black Caucus, but I would join the actual representative body Black Caucus if I win, because I don't think I can responsibly represent my district without doing so my district is like I think, I think 72 something percent black or like that. So that is one thing that I should mention. I recognize that I am a white girl from Oak Park running for this seat, but I do think it is in important as we talk about things like representation, when I mentioned earlier, there has never been a trans person elected, so that is important. But ultimately, my tasks getting forward, you know, we've just had a horrific snafu with the state budget. The state budget is supposed to be passed every year by the end of June. It didn't get passed until a couple weeks ago, as we were hearing about the shutdown that was looming here in Michigan, in addition to a government shutdown, which would have been absolutely calamitous. So I'm very big on education. I know in the most recent budget, the education bill, the education budget got kind of gutted. They don't doesn't look like it got gutted, but they played a shell game and moved like $200 million out of the K through 12 Fund, which is a nightmare. So I definitely will be pushing for more money towards education, I def and I mean, the biggest thing is housing issues right now, it is so expensive to live, whether you're renting, owning a home is a dream for most people, but it's it's too expensive to find somewhere to live right now. And I wish I could say that, you know, as a state rep, I'm going to single handedly tackle that problem, but ain't no single person tackling that issue. It's going to have to be a broad coalition of people who comes together and recognizes housing has gotten out of control. We need to address it on a state level, ideally on a federal level. But I'm not holding my breath for that to happen until at least 2028 you can probably guess why.
JOE KORT:When did you decide you wanted to be in politics?
Kali Scales:Yeah, you know. So I'm a little new to this last November, after the election, someone in my community actually said, You need to get involved right now. We need a voice, and you have been in radio. You've been podcasting for 20 years like you, you have a voice and a good mind for this. You should run, all right. And so I decided to get involved with politics. I didn't really know where to start. I joined. I followed a group called run for something which helps promote young progressive candidates, and they gave me some leads. That's how I joined the Oakland County Democratic Party. Like so many, I was very depressed after the election was over. My wife and I literally sat down and talked like, do we need to have a plan for getting out of the country. And we made one, which is a wild and surreal moment, but it was on inauguration day where I was listening to someone give their inaugural address, and they're sad. They're like, Yeah, I'm pissed. Okay, and so I joined the Oakland County Democratic Party and then dove right in. I now chair the LGBTQIA rights committee for the OCD P I'm sit on the rules and bylaws committee of both the Oakland County Democratic Party and congressional district 11's Democratic Party, and I serve on the resolutions committee for CD 11. I also got to have the honor of serving on the resolutions committee for the Michigan Democratic Party convention this year, and even managed to get a resolution through in support of trans dignity and rights, got that passed unanimously in my first go around. So I was very proud of that.
JOE KORT:Congratulations.
Kali Scales:Thank you. It has been a trial by fire here in my first year of politics, and I certainly would never have guessed that I would be running for state office in my first year. I reached out to my campaign manager, and I was like, Do you would I be crazy to want to run for this? And she goes, Yeah, but that's what it takes. So go for it.
JOE KORT:What do you how do you think you're going to handle and maybe you already know from past If this has happened to you, but the viciousness, the the shittiness, the, you know, I already get all this on on social media, but I think in politics, it's way worse. How do you handle that?
Kali Scales:Yeah. So going back as a radio host for so many years, and as a Twitch streamer and performer, I you know, I've been in the public eye now for most of my life, since I was about 16 years old, and so I was in it when I was still in the closet. I came out publicly. I did my whole transition publicly. I have seen some of the best and worst that humanity has to offer in that time. I have heard people say things to me that would make your skin crawl, and I have seen things that would warm your heart, and indeed, being active politically, it takes it ratchets it up even to another level from there. But I do have some thick skin that I've developed over the years of performing as I am. And you know, it's one of those things we take every precaution we can to be safe. But you know, part of being out there in the public eye is accepting that some people are going to have some things to say about you, and you've got to be able to just look the other way, or if you have the bandwidth, kind of embrace it and say, Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. Here's what I stand for, and keep moving forward. I.
JOE KORT:Does anything trigger you? Because sometimes I'll be like, you know, I've gotten used to the comments too. I've been, even though I've been the public eye a long time, I haven't seen all the feedback until I got on social media, yeah, and then I started having to avoid and turn the other way, like you said. But sometimes I'll see a comment, I'll be like, Yeah, I'm gonna fucking, you know, go back and forth with this person. And so I hate doing it, and then I erase it later. What comments get you?
Kali Scales:I think the only things that like really irk me are when people take my words and represent them as meaning something else. Yes, that's I hate that, which I mean, as every performer will tell you, it's maddening, especially you know, I've spent years as a writer, and if there's one thing I value myself on, it's being able to put myself out there and convey what I mean. And so when people will purposely take your words and misrepresent them and try and make it like you mean, something else that drives me absolutely nuts.
JOE KORT:Yeah, I'm with you 100% what would you like listeners to know that we haven't talked about yet before we come to an end?
Kali Scales:Yeah, obviously this is such a new thing in my life, and it's it's been a wonderful new challenge. I'm really enjoying getting to run for office and meeting so many incredible people, people who have been fighting the good fight now for years, and a new class of people who are angry. I know there's a lot of hopelessness out there right now, while I'm telling you right now, I was at Governor whitmer's candidate training a few weeks back, and there is a whole class of young, angry leaders of tomorrow coming up who are not putting up with this, who know that this is not right. I just got to speak at the Oak Park no kings rally, and to see so many people turn out and listen to what I and some of our other political leaders had to say, and be there to make the world know that they're not going to stand for this, that they know this is not normal. It really helps combating that feeling of hopelessness and loneliness that I think a lot of us are dealing with right now. I always say that fear thrives in loneliness, and that is one of the things that so many of us are struggling with right now, is we feel so isolated, we feel like the decision has already been made that it was made last November, and now there's no hope anymore. I'm here to tell you that that day is not yet here. I'm so there is still hope.
JOE KORT:I love having this podcast with you. I love you're saying all this because I've been saying the same thing in my day. I feel like an old guy. I kind of am. But you know, my day, you just couldn't you couldn't go, Well, God , I hope it all works out. You got active, you were gonna fight. You got to fight, mailing envelopes, doing stupid things, getting involved, simple things, and now just being a keyboard warrior. In my opinion, it's not enough. I know there are people that say no, it's enough. No, because if you're hopeless and helpless, you have to be around people, not keyboards. I don't know what you think of that
Kali Scales:well, so I always couch that in saying that everyone does what they can. Yeah, that's true. If, yes, if what you have, if you're working full time, and you know, what you have is you can, you can fight the battle online, in cyberspace, and then, you know, you kick some bucks over to the candidates that you care about or to the charities that you care about. That's if that's what you can do, do that. My message to anyone right now is, hang with us. Stay in the fight. Stay engaged. DON'T WITHDRAW. Don't pull back. Don't turn a blind eye to the things that are happening. We're gonna need you down the line. We're gonna We need You now, but if you can't be there now, at least stay engaged, so that when we do need you, and you do have the bandwidth you're able to be and yes, for those of you, if you do have the bandwidth to get out there and fight, to get out there and be at protest, to call your Senator, to call your state rep, absolutely those things need to be getting done right now. Please step it up if you're able to. And if you're not, just hang in there with us. We're going to get there. I promise we are going to see the other side of this.
JOE KORT:This is a great message. How can they hear more of your message online?
Kali Scales:Yes, you can go over to www.votekaliscales.com and you can also follow me on Facebook by my name, Kali Scales. That's where a lot of my campaign stuff is coming out. I will say I am running my campaign grassroots. I'm not accepting corporate money. I have no interest in representing DTE or anyone else in Lansing. I only want to represent district five, which is my district. So the upside of that is, it makes a great soundbite on a podcast. The downside of that is, it means my job is right now, basically just begging people for money, day in and day out. So if you're able to make a contribution, you know, even five bucks, we say $5 for the fifth, where people do $5 a month for the campaign, or whatever you can do up to a maximum of 1225 which is the maximum I can accept as a as a state rep candidate, whatever you can donate is greatly appreciated. It means the world to me. There's also a spot on my website where you can sign up to volunteer if you're in the area and you want to do some phone banking or some door knocking for me, that is also available and greatly appreciated.
JOE KORT:Kali, thank you so much for being on my show. Thank you so much for having me. This has been fantastic. Yeah, same here. All right, so you can hear more of my podcast at www.smartsexsmartlove.com and you can also follow me on Twitter, Tiktok, Instagram and Facebook and even LinkedIn. And I'm @DrJoeKort, D, R, J, o, e, K, O, R, T, and then my website is Joe court.com thanks for listening. And Well, until next time, stay safe and stay healthy.